Controversial turkey hunting subjects

[GobbleNut]

Honestly I don't have a good answer on the population decline. I stated in my previous post that where I hunt they dropped the limit from 4 birds to 2. I do hunt on a Army post (Fort Campbell, KY). And since they dropped the limit I have seen more birds. Fort Campbell is weird because it sits on the border of 2 states. Roughly half the base is in Kentucky half is in Tennessee. So I meet hunters that hunt Kentucky and Tennessee public and private land. I live in Tennessee about 1 mile or so across the state line. I don't really hear the guys I know from Kentucky complain to much about population decline. But a lot of guys I talk to from Tennessee are seeing a decline in a lot of areas, not all areas but quite a bit. There could be a lot of factors that go into it. Heck it could just be mother nature doing her thing. Kentucky has a 2 bird limit and Tennessee has a 4 bird limit. But starting in the spring of 2021 Tennessee is going to 3 birds so we will see how that works out.

Once again, we are wandering off of the general topic of the original post, but what the heck...this specific concept is worth further discussion. 

First of all, in well-regulated spring turkey hunting (that is, starting the season AFTER the turkeys have had time to adequately breed), the number of gobblers taken out of the population is irrelevant to the overall turkey population viability.  The overriding factor affecting turkey populations is stable "recruitment" (nesting success and poult survival) over time. 

Simply put, in any declining turkey population, the problem is always going to be linked to successful recruitment OVER TIME.  Specifically, turkey populations generally have up and down cycles,...that is, good reproductive years, and bad reproductive years.  They usually balance out over time.

The problems arise when populations have several (or many) consecutive years without any population recruitment.  When that happens, each spring you hunt that population, the number of gobblers is reduced each year through hunting (and other mortality causes) until there are very few mature gobblers left in the population (hen numbers will likely be following the same path of decline). 

The first symptom of biologically-based problems in a population that spring turkey hunters typically will notice is the consistent decline in gobbling over a period of years.  However, those declines can be a function of hunter success (the removal of more gobblers each spring either due to increased hunter numbers and/or hunter ability/methodology). 

One way of determining if apparent decreases in gobbler numbers is due to a general population decline due to recruitment issues (nesting success) is to decrease spring gobbler hunting in an area that has a concern, which brings us back to the point of your post rakkin6.  What you witnessed (Ft. Campbell) is a function of the number of gobblers removed in your population due to hunting, AND is also indicative of the fact that you are having some level of nesting success there.  That is, if you are seeing an increase in gobbler numbers you have to be having some population recruitment success to see that happen. 

So what does all of this have to do with bag limits and such?  Simply stated, in turkey populations with stable, long-term population recruitment (nesting success), the only thing that bag limits impacts is the QUALITY of the hunting.  Kill more gobblers one spring with high bag limits and you will have fewer gobblers in that population the next spring. ...And that phenomenon (which is not rocket science) is exacerbated in years of poor (or no) population recruitment. 

The bottom line is that, in all turkey populations that have stable, long-term population recruitment, high spring bag limits are only going to impact the QUALITY of the hunting.  The decision on whether to have high or low bag limits is strictly a "social" decision, not a "biological" one.  Those social decisions are (or should be) determined by societal preferences,...that is, what does the majority of the public that utilizes the resource (in our case "hunters") want?...higher bag limits or more gobblers in the woods each spring? 

It is when the problem with turkey population declines becomes a "biological" one that things start to get complicated. First, though, you have to determine if the problem is actually a function of biological problems or just a function of harvest numbers.   

[Happy]

To get things back on topic. I just had a song come to mind and had to give it a listen. "Dinosaur" by Hank William's jr. It pretty well parallels my opinion on modern    " hunters".

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[ChesterCopperpot]

I believe I must have misunderstood the intent of the original post and for that I apologize. If you want one to add to your list of controversial subjects: scope or bead, glass or red dot.

[rakkin6]

I go with red dot scope, just make sure it has a fresh battery at the begining of the season. I leave it off the while hunting until I am on a bird then I turn it on. Double and triple check it is off when I am done for the day and gun goes into it's case for the ride home. At the end of the season I throw the old battery away. Have not had any issues so far doing it this way. Hopefully it stays like that lol.

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[troutfisher13111]

The way people argue on forums and social media, I believe all turkey hunting topics are controversial.

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[rakkin6]

Lol, the only social media I use is this site. I don't have Facebook, Twitter etc. Glad I don't too it seems like it is a lot of trouble.

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[silvestris]

The way people argue on forums and social media, I believe all turkey hunting topics are controversial.

Not so.  The topics are not controversial, only those who disagree with me.  I am right and they are wrong.

[Greg Massey]

I love a forum with awesome opinions .. IS...  anyone listening or do you really not care .. 

[eggshell]

another controversial thing is leasing and loss of access.

Actually in my area I have lost a ton of ground to leasing, but it's almost exclusively deer hunters leasing the ground and a lot don't even  turkey hunt, or they only hunt a couple days. These leases have become seeding grounds. One right across from my house gets no turkey hunting pressure except for an occasional trespasser.  By the third week of season the birds are stacked up on it and they set over there and gobble like they're laughing at you. Good for me because they eventually wander off onto my land. By the end of season I know there was several old longbeards left in the area, I'd see them out in the fields and hear them. I think they knew I was out of tags. One year I would go to the boundary and look out in the field and see at least 4 long beards strutting, I'd throw them a call and they'd just laugh at me. Finally one late morning I hear a gobble and suddenly I realize he's on my ground, I grab the gun and head to the woods, a half hour later he had my tag on him. So this kind of bears out what was said about holdover.

[Happy]

Is a food plot baiting?

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[rakkin6]

Is a food plot baiting?

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Trying to stir up trouble lol

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[redleg06]

" Hey, have you guys ever hunted on __________ in the southeast corner of _________?  I'm looking to take a trip there next spring and would love it if you would put some of your favorite hunting spots out on the internet for the masses..."

[eggshell]

Hey Happy I got a picture of your food plot

[Happy]

Hey Happy I got a picture of your food plot

With my luck I still couldn't kill one. Me an ol Wiley E coyote have a lot in common

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[mcw3734]

another controversial thing is leasing and loss of access.

Ah, yes, this is along the lines of what I was thinking. Thanks for bringing that point up Eggshell, much appreciated!

And I appreciate the other comments as well, thank you all. Yes, the "tell me where should I go?" questions do trip a trigger with many. Of course find that with people looking for deer and elk, as well as morels and huckleberrys.