Seeing a decline in turkeys

[Happy]

Around here in the mountains of Md and Wv populations have stayed steady for the most part. We have never been covered up in turkeys and they are found in patches. I still think it's a good idea to spread out where I kill birds and don't take more than one tom from an area. I did a few times in my younger days but have learned to spread it out. I do the same with deer. There usually isn't to much of a threat of disease around here because we don't typlcally have guys fighting to keep all the wildlife on their property and off their neighbors.That's when you really have problems. Loading an area with corn and feed causing animals to stack up in an area is a perfect way to cause a lot of problems. Of course greed will win and people will cry. New trends in turkey hunting are also causing higher sucess rates which in turn will cause issues. Everyone wants to blame everything but themselves as usual.

[eggshell]

Hunting mortality on gobblers is a real influence. Here is a link to a study that was done by OHIO, PA and New York jointly on survival rates of gobblers. It's a good survey and interesting read. As far as finding turkey remains, they disappear fast as every predator and scavenger uses the remains, even the feathers are collected by birds and cavity nesters. I once cut open a tree that had a squirrel nest in it that was full of turkey feathers. It was along my field where I throw carcasses, but an example of what happens.

http://www.pgc.pa.gov/Wildlife/WildlifeSpecies/Turkey/Documents/Annual%20Survival%20and%20Spring%20Harvest%20Rates%20of%20Male%20Wild%20Turkeys.pdf

[zelmo1]

I would like to see a "No Jake Rule" for all non minor hunters. Lots of jakes killed up here. Not being a hypocrite, my first bird was a jake. That was 20 years ago when any turkey was a rare trophy. But things have change rapidly here. The turkey numbers are up compared to 15 years ago, so people see them more and say, " I think I will start hunting them now". This is great to get more people interested, but Maine went to a 4 bird limit. 2 in the spring and 2 in the fall. This now brings in the " deer only" hunters killing some as collateral damage or a pre deer warmup. This is real too, I know plenty of guys that hunt the fall season only as an opportunity hunt. NH is still only one bird and the numbers are stabilizing. If they want to give a one time tag for new turkey hunters to shoot a jake, I would vote for it. I want people to enjoy this awesome sport. But I don't want it to go crazy. My wife is hunting for the first time this year, I already told her to decide if she wants to shoot a jake or not. It's a personal choice and it isn't wrong. My daughter shot her first turkey, a jake, last year and passed a second jake that same day, I was very proud of her. " Dad, can I wait, I want to shoot a Tom now, I already shot a jake" That's my girl. I worry more about the weather and predators than hunters. You cant change the weather or other hunters, but you can "clean up" as many predators as possible  . Al Baker

[BB30]

One issue we have in MS (not where I hunt but south ms) is alot of land is owned by timber companies/managed by timber companies and they will go in and cut all of the hardwoods down to around 30 ft around creeks. Then they will burn/harvest whenever they can get in there. Often times this is in March/April/May destroying tons of nesting habitat and actual nests. Thus hurting recruitment.

Unfortunately they don't seem to care as profit comes first and foremost which I get to an extent but at the same time I think they have a responsibility to use due diligence when managing large blocks of land. Especially public.

[turkaholic]

Hunting mortality on gobblers is a real influence. Here is a link to a study that was done by OHIO, PA and New York jointly on survival rates of gobblers. It's a good survey and interesting read. As far as finding turkey remains, they disappear fast as every predator and scavenger uses the remains, even the feathers are collected by birds and cavity nesters. I once cut open a tree that had a squirrel nest in it that was full of turkey feathers. It was along my field where I throw carcasses, but an example of what happens.

http://www.pgc.pa.gov/Wildlife/WildlifeSpecies/Turkey/Documents/Annual%20Survival%20and%20Spring%20Harvest%20Rates%20of%20Male%20Wild%20Turkeys.pdf

thanks for the link Shell ! Cool info there. I just wish it was more recent. 2009 was a lot of turkeys ago

[slicksbeagles1]

Eggshell, I live in middle Tennessee and I my area I have thought that maybe herbicide use is farming may cause a problem where turkeys might ingest plants that have been sprayed is this possible? Another thought I had the other day was black buzzards in an area I use to hunt I don't see the turkeys I use to and I drive thru there everyday but the buzzards have started roosting in the area. I don't know where the black buzzards came from cause we never had them here I am 59 and don't remember seeing any growing up and from the time I was 10 I was either in the woods or on the water.

[Spitten and drummen]

One issue we have in MS (not where I hunt but south ms) is alot of land is owned by timber companies/managed by timber companies and they will go in and cut all of the hardwoods down to around 30 ft around creeks. Then they will burn/harvest whenever they can get in there. Often times this is in March/April/May destroying tons of nesting habitat and actual nests. Thus hurting recruitment.

Unfortunately they don't seem to care as profit comes first and foremost which I get to an extent but at the same time I think they have a responsibility to use due diligence when managing large blocks of land. Especially public.

This is the absolute truth. It's a shame the Nwtf won't at least visit with these timber companies and attempt to work with them

[tracker#1]

I live in WNY. Got bit by the bug and started hunting turkeys 1983. Since then I've noticed a drastic drop in the population the last 12 years. On the NY DEC website they had posted the turkey harvest from 2002 to 2016, birds reported. You didn't have to be a "rocket scientist" to see the drop off. I attend organized sportsmen meetings along with DEC. I was told that there are 2 studies going on. 1 from Cornell and the other not sure who. I was told that they are 5 year studies. Well 5 years and more have past and still at every meeting I ask the question "What are the results of the turkey studies ? " and I get shrugged shoulders and no results yet. I would also like to know why it took DEC wildlife biologist's that long to react in the first place. Us hunters are the "eye's and ears" out there. We hunters here in WNY where trying to tell them, DEC, that there is a problem out there for many years. They are always blaming the weather saying above average rainfall, "This Spring was the wettest ever !" Well I'm 65 and ever since I can remember Spring is "wet". I believe they should go back to a "split" spring season and 1 Gobbler only until things improve and hunters should refrain from shooting jakes.....

[Ol Yelper]

tracker #1 I also live in western NY and I agree with everything you said 100%.

[Rzrbac]

Interesting thread as I've seen a sharp decline in my hunting spots here in southern MO. I noticed the decline when I started noticing the hog sign. I've blamed hogs for the decline but notice many members here have both hogs and turkeys. I talked to a hunter in GA who had an interesting theory. He said the numbers went down in his areas when farmers starting using turkey manure from turkey farms for fertilizer. None of those near me, just chicken farms but it seems like it may have the potential of passing on disease.

One other thing I know makes it hard on our birds is poaching. I've found numerous carcasses during spring season that was obviously from poaching, i.e. some in trash bags that obviously were killed well before season. It's also not uncommon to hear single shotgun shots in the mornings leading up to season while listening.

I know the past few years we have had some very bad flooding late season but I would expect that to only show a small decline in a very short cycle.

[johnski]

I just started hunting turkeys in 2006 first in NY and then the following year I moved to Connecticut and now I hunt NY, CT and Rhode Island and I have seen I a decline in all 3 states since I have been hunting.  The state of Connecticut in there wisdom actually increased the number of tags you get now.  I can legally harvest 10 turkeys a year in the state (5 in the spring and 5 in the fall) all with the purchase of one permit.  That is more then double what any other state in the North East allows.  I just wonder what they know that everyone else doesn't. 
I will at least give some credit to NY as they cut the fall limit down from 2 to 1 in the last year or so.

[slicksbeagles1]

Ttt

[saltysenior]

I live in WNY. Got bit by the bug and started hunting turkeys 1983. Since then I've noticed a drastic drop in the population the last 12 years. On the NY DEC website they had posted the turkey harvest from 2002 to 2016, birds reported. You didn't have to be a "rocket scientist" to see the drop off. I attend organized sportsmen meetings along with DEC. I was told that there are 2 studies going on. 1 from Cornell and the other not sure who. I was told that they are 5 year studies. Well 5 years and more have past and still at every meeting I ask the question "What are the results of the turkey studies ? " and I get shrugged shoulders and no results yet. I would also like to know why it took DEC wildlife biologist's that long to react in the first place. Us hunters are the "eye's and ears" out there. We hunters here in WNY where trying to tell them, DEC, that there is a problem out there for many years. They are always blaming the weather saying above average rainfall, "This Spring was the wettest ever !" Well I'm 65 and ever since I can remember Spring is "wet". I believe they should go back to a "split" spring season and 1 Gobbler only until things improve and hunters should refrain from shooting jakes.....

agree 99%, but I do not believe the bag limits effect the overall population that much....the populations of turkeys in suburban areas that do not allow hunting have also declined.....I myself don't know why, but am disappointed with no answers coming from agencies that get paid to look into problems that we are having thru out the eastern states...they seem to try to keep us happy by throwing out bones like weather, habitat, predators, ect. ......these individual reasons do not hold water in all of the vast area that is having this problem..   

[LI Outdoorsman]

although there are many environmental issues affecting turkey populations in my honest opinion I feel there's a direct correlation between the amount of birds available and the amount of good, modern, well informed hunters pursuing them..

[Volgobbler]

I started hunting 5 years ago. I hunt a buddies farm and its pretty small. 60 acres of which 15 is woods. There are 2 creeks that run through it though and several big oak trees so it has good habitat. People told me the population would keep getting bigger and they were right. But its leveled off the last 2 years and I think its just because the population is maxed out for the land area. Holds around 30 hens and 8 toms every year. Ive put a 2 bird limit on.  myself. May not need it but makes me feel better. Several coyotes and raccoons on the property too but haven't noticed any drastic drop in population. Think they are necessary for the whole ecosystem.  Only thing cant control is hunters on neighboring properties