A New .380 ACP from Kahr

[allaboutshooting]

I've been spending some time at the range with a new .380 ACP pistol from Kahr. I really like these guns. They are simple, safe, have great triggers and are astonishingly accurate.

I hope you'll enjoy the read http://allaboutshooting.com/blogs/blog

Thanks,
Clark

[Fatbeard]

That is a good looking pistol. Never shot a Kahr before

[silvestris]

I love the Kahrs, but I feel under gunned with anything less than the 9mm.  I plan to get the wife a PM9 if she likes the feel of the gun.  If she doesn't, she is going to have to keep her stainless Chief's Special with 158 grain hollow points.

[allaboutshooting]

My everyday carry gun is a Kahr CM9 with Polycase 9mm ammo. Those shells have the 74 gr ARX bullet at 1475 fps with 357  ft lbs of energy. They are very low recoil, exceptionally accurate and do everything a defensive round should do. If you're not familiar with Polycase ammo, you can get a good look at it here http://www.polycaseammo.com/project/inceptor-arx

Here's a link to a "Product Test" article I published on the CM9 about 3 years ago. http://allaboutshooting.com/blogs/blog/98756807-kahr-cm9

It's a great gun.

Thanks,
Clark

[allaboutshooting]

I love the Kahrs, but I feel under gunned with anything less than the 9mm.  I plan to get the wife a PM9 if she likes the feel of the gun.  If she doesn't, she is going to have to keep her stainless Chief's Special with 158 grain hollow points.

I carried a S&W 342PD for years and before that a S&W Model 60 stainless, so I also like those small revolvers. You may want to take a look at the Polycase .38 special rounds with 77 gr ARX bullets, with 213 ft lbs of energy at 1116 fps.

Thanks,
Clark

[allaboutshooting]

That is a good looking pistol. Never shot a Kahr before

I was introduced to the Kahr brand a few years ago. They have a very innovative design and the quality is first rate. What has amazed me over the years is the accuracy from their very small pistols. They are more accurate than many much larger guns.

A lot of their "secret to success" is their trigger. You have to shoot one and feel it to really appreciate just how good it is.

I'd encourage you to take a look at one, handle it and pull the trigger. You'll see exactly what I mean.

Thanks,
Clark

[allaboutshooting]

Posted by: silvestris
I love the Kahrs, but I feel under gunned with anything less than the 9mm.

I have some of the new Federal HST 9mm ammo made for compact & micro model guns. It has 150 gr JHP bullets. I'll publish my findings on that as soon as I've taken some to the range.

Thanks,
Clark

[ncwoodsman]

Nice write up on the Kahr. I have never actually fired one, but after reading this I am going to look into purchasing one of these. Thanks for all the good information regarding concealed carry as well. This may be what I select as a concealed carry in the future.

[allaboutshooting]

Nice write up on the Kahr. I have never actually fired one, but after reading this I am going to look into purchasing one of these. Thanks for all the good information regarding concealed carry as well. This may be what I select as a concealed carry in the future.

Thank you. They are excellent pistols and I know you'd be happy with one.

Thanks again,
Clark

[wvmntnhick]

Clark, I'll agree that you did a fine write up. My only concern (and this is with any subcompact handgun) is that the magazine capacity is severely hampered. Only reason I say this is that I'd bet the vast majority of people carrying concealed don't have the proper training to accurately hit what they're aiming at in high stress situations. Heck, there's plenty of trained professionals that struggle with this as well. There have been more than a few instances in which trained officers have emptied full magazines on assailants that were well witching defensive shooting ranges and never touched the perp. I've got a buddy that trains people at a well respected facility and it happens there all the time. People go into a shooting house situation to clear just a couple rooms with the subcompact handgun that they intend to carry only to find out that when the dust settles, they didn't have the proper capacity to hit all the targets under the stress associated with this simulated situation. One would think that 2 magazines (14-15 rounds) would be enough for 3 "attackers" but often times they can't take care of the situation. Couple this with the possibility that there could be innocent people standing by and it doubles the problems when bullets aren't landing where they need to. I know this comment is more about being able to control the impact of the bullet but when the time is called upon, many can not. I've done some of their training and it was quite eye opening to say the least. Even with some of their training I'm not certain it would compensate for the fight/flight scenario of a real life experience.

In no way am I knocking the quality of Khar firearms. Handled many and shot several. Most have been great. Simply stating that when choosing a subcompact, magazine capacity should also be considered. Thanks for a great review of a fine product Clark.

[allaboutshooting]

Simply stating that when choosing a subcompact, magazine capacity should also be considered. Thanks for a great review of a fine product Clark.

Thank you. There's just no substitute for quality range time. "Back in the day", as folks like to say now, we carried 6 shot .38 special revolvers. The combat course was fired at 7 yards, strong hand, weak hand, 15 yards, strong hand, weak hand and then again at 25 yards. All with 5 wadcutters. No full power rounds were ever used and as noted, only 5 rounds were loaded each time.

In real life fire fights, there were documented instances of 5 rounds being fired and the cylinder dumped (with a live round still left in it) due to training with only 5 rounds.

Back-up guns, if carried were usually a Colt Detective Special, 6 shot or a S&W Chief's special, 5 shot. Maybe 12 rounds were carried in loops or dump pouches.

Been there & done that...a lifetime ago but I understand your comments and observations. As a side note, I was around when the modern protocols were developed for both effective stopping power of handgun rounds and when the more realistic shoot/don't shoot scenarios were put in practice. All of those were as a direct result of tragic situations. I had some friends involved in some of those situations.

As you know, many times some compromise must be made for a concealed carry gun. Thankfully, many advances have been made both in small guns and in the ammo for them. Many popular calibers, .38 special, .380 ACP and 9mm are much better at the intended purpose than they were a few years ago. Spending the time and money to learn to use those tools effectively is still the challenge for many, probably most people.

I appreciate your concerns about magazine capacity and agree that it's a valid consideration when choosing any gun.

I've had similar conversations with my older brother and with his son, representing 2 very different views, due to their street experience in different eras.

I'm always however reminded of the old quote, "The best gun in the world is the one you have in your hand when you need it."


We should all prepare to use whatever gun we choose and pray that we never have to.

Thanks again,
Clark

[Tail Feathers]

The vast majority of civilian defensive shootings will be under 6 rounds.  And it's not like there are that many of them, so odds are highly in your favor of one of the subcompacts being enough gun for your carry needs.
From the web:
The Armed Citizen – A Five Year Analysis
OVERVIEW OF SURVEY
For the period 1997 - 2001, reports from "The Armed Citizen" column of the NRA Journals were collected. There were 482 incidents available for inclusion in the analysis. All involved the use of firearms by private citizens in self defense or defense of others. No law enforcement related incidents were included. The database is self-selecting in that no non-positive outcomes were reported in the column.

DATA ANALYSIS
As might be expected, the majority of incidents (52%) took place in the home. Next most common locale (32%) was in a business. Incidents took place in public places in 9% of reports and 7% occurred in or around vehicles.

The most common initial crimes were armed robbery (32%), home invasion (30%), and burglary (18%).

Overall, shots were fired by the defender in 72% of incidents. The average and median number of shots fired was 2. When more than 2 shots were fired, it generally appeared that the defender's initial response was to fire until empty. It appears that revolver shooters are more likely to empty their guns than autoloader shooters. At least one assailant was killed in 34% of all incidents. At least one assailant was wounded in an additional 29% of all incidents. Of the incidents where shots are fired by a defender, at least one assailant is killed in 53% of those incidents.

Handguns were used in 78% of incidents while long guns were used in 13%; in the balance the type of firearm was not reported. The most common size of handgun was the .35 caliber family (.38, .357, 9mm) at 61%, with most .38s apparently being of the 5 shot variety. Mouseguns (.380s and below) were at 23%, and .40 caliber and up at 15%.

The range of most incidents appears to be short but in excess of touching distance. It appears that most defenders will make the shoot decision shortly before the criminal comes within arm's length. Defenders frequently communicate with their attackers before shooting.
The firearm was carried on the body of the defender in only 20% of incidents. In 80% of cases, the firearm was obtained from a place of storage, frequently in another room.

Reloading was required in only 3 incidents. One of those involved killing an escaped lion with a .32 caliber revolver, which was eventually successful after 13 shots.

[perrytrails]

I carried a S&W 642 for years till I got my hands on a Kahr PM9 when they first came out.

Perfect pocket gun, very accurate , mainly due to that nice trigger.

Awesome carry guns...

[silvestris]

The decision to carry is an immense responsibility.  Many think that the mere possession of a firearm is all that they need.  Sadly, they are only fooling themselves.  Most self-defense failures are the result of psychological influences.  The human body goes through many dramatic phases when the flight or fight impulses kick in.

I believe anyone who chooses to carry should read one or both of Col. Dave Grossman's major books, "On Killing" or "On Combat".  These very interesting books describe what is likely to happen to the mind and body when flight or fight kicks in and hopefully will help the sheepdog perform properly in those situations.  They are not that expensive in the Kindle editions from Amazon.  I also encourage the carrier to investigate the USCCA.  I devour each issue of their magazine as it comes and they provide insurance for the criminal and civil trials that can come from an over zealous prosecutor or the recipient of bullets or the deceased recipient's family.

Concentrate on the front sight and practice point shooting.  I carry a HK P30 and I purchased a P30 airgun.  Hardly a week goes by that I don't take that airgun behind my office and practice drawing and firing from the holster as well as point shooting.  Developing muscle memory is the key to hitting your target.  Dry fire practice with your carry gun is also a great aid to gaining proficiency.

[Old Gobbler]

I didn't know much about the Kahrs until recently ,they are of good quality --  I will say I do like it I bit more than the glock  43

The pistol is small enough to be hidden easily in the belt line