Turkey Fan Umbrella?

[wvmntnhick]

People i have already had a rude run in with VatuRKstOmPer .. myself , it's either his way or the highway..If he doesn't like the way people hunt he should stay off the forum. He is rude all the time to people.

Ya think!? First time I've had any dealings with him personally. Don't care to have another but hey, as I said before, different strokes. Think I'm going home later and warm up my gobbler decoy for a good reaping adventure in a couple weeks. Good grief.

[GobbleNut]

Okay,...we all need to take a deep breath and settle down.

Although I totally agree that there are some boundaries that we should all agree on in terms of how we conduct ourselves as hunters, there are also a number of things that are not so black and white.  The things that are in the "gray area" vary a bit for each of us.  All of us have our own conditions and circumstances under which we must hunt. 

From my travels turkey hunting, I know for a fact there are folks in other parts of the country that hunt in ways that I personally prefer not to,...and they feel completely comfortable and justified in doing so.  They hunt that way because, over time, they have come to the conclusion that using whatever tactics they do are needed to consistently, or even occasionally, be successful under the conditions in which they hunt.

Again, as long as those tactics are legal and can be applied safely where you hunt, hunt the way you want.  If I don't hunt where you do and under the conditions that you face there, it is hard for me to justify taking a position against your hunting methods, regardless of if they conform to my own "standards" or not.

[Greg Massey]

Wvmntntick check out my post , On The board in Tenn. started by me Greg Massey..you will see how rude he is..

[Hooksfan]

Simply pointing out that others are chastised for hunting in different fashions. I've caught all kinds of flack for not using a shotgun as some see it as unsporting. Different strokes I suppose. Kinda like everyone jumping on guys that "reap" turkeys. Am I against it? Nope. Would I do it? Nope. Would I call someone out on it? Again, nope. Was he serious? Depends on how someone wants to interpret it. New members may have thin skin and when one hasn't been around others on the site for any period of time, it may send the wrong message. Just saying. Carry on.

You and I are clearly very different.  To me, right is right and wrong is wrong.  The whole "if it's legal, it's ok" argument is an ethical cop out as far as I'm concerned.  The whole problem with turkey hunting these days is the new hunters you actually mention and organizations such as the NWTF promoting tactics like this that increase success, which promote recruitment, while betraying the grand bird they initially set out to protect all in exchange for the mighty dollar. 

Let me illustrate my point:
In the state of Florida, the use of bait such as corn and other seeds is LEGAL.  Hunters are just required to stay outside of 100 yards from those bait sites.  Any turkey hunter worth his salt knows that bait will concentrate turkeys.  It will also increase their pattern ability.  All of these factors work against the bird's chance of survival and increase a hunters ability to kill them.  Sure, the use of bait is legal in Florida but the larger question is why should bait be legal in Florida?  Why do many Florida hunters believe bait is an integral aspect of success when it comes to turkey hunting?

This extrapolation doesn't require a PhD in Mathematics.  It doesn't require a JD from Harvard.  It's wrong and fundamentally violates the principal of fair chase yet it's legal and many people drink the Koolaide because theyre OK with it being easier.

ROOST SHOOTING is legal in many states (VA included).  I dare anyone to explain to this forum when and why roost shooting is an acceptable tactic for the harvest of wild turkeys. 

Now, let's get back to remote MoJo gobblers and fanning.  There are very few gobbler with the exception of satellite toms who have become submissive that will not attack a fan decoy.  For anyone who has seen it done or tried it, it's almost a sure thing if you don't miss the bird with a dime-sized pattern at 3 yards.  It is a lethal tactic that facilitates a level of success one could only achieve through a tactic such as...... Baiting. 

Not only is it a lethal tactic but it's also dangerous.  The use of increasingly more lifelike strutters images and decoys only increases the propensity for hunter induced shooting accidents.  Anyone willing to put a mature gobblers face and profile mere inches from their own is self-nominating themselves for the Darwin Awards, imho.  People in the Darwin Awards are commonly referred to as morons..... Just saying.

To conclude, turkey numbers are down to 6 million from 7 million in 5 years. Many areas in the country have populations that are down 30-50%. As hunters who have seen the sport rise in popularity, we have a responsibility to police ourselves and acknowledge when enough is enough.

So there we have it boys, fanning aligns itself with some of the most despicable "Legal" practices in our sport and while some of you tea-toters will take the platform of inclusion and tolerance, I refuse.

You, sir have summed up my sentiments exactly.  I agree wholeheartedly with every single word and observation. You are a bona fide turkey hunter and you would be welcome in my camp any day.

[Bill Cooksey]

Ethics are a personal thing. Legality doesn't always equate to ethics. In other words, being legal doesn't make something ethical, and the reverse is also true. That doesn't mean we should be rude to someone with whom we disagree because, as I said on opening, ethics are a personal thing.

I would love to see male turkey decoys outlawed in TN. Personally, I feel they cheapen the experience, and I say that having used them. I also believe, anecdotally, they are bad for the resource. However, they are perfectly legal, and I won't fault or belittle someone who uses them.

Today, I rarely even use a hen decoy and use it only when guiding. Now, that's not an ethical choice. It's simply the way I prefer to hunt. I also know for a fact, ditching the decoys will make you a better hunter, but it won't make you a better person.

[Greg Massey]

I feel decoys are fine for hunting with in Tenn. A lot of older people can't run and gun anymore so as we get older and want to still turkey hunt we have to find new ways of hunting. I always hunt out of blind and no i don't hunt out of a pop up blind i don't even own one, but for time to time i do use decoys. All four of my turkey blinds that i hunt out of are homemade brush blinds with the help of some 2 X 4's and such. Two of these have plywood tops for those rain days.. I own my on land just over 700 ac. and i have a hunting cabin and a small lake for kids and church groups to fish out of. I have to younger friends i let hunt at no charge they just help and work the food plots on the place and they help keep the cabin up and stuff. I pay for almost everything we plant and the tractor and equipment we use. These guys are just like family..

[Bill Cooksey]

Greg,

I should say West TN. Honestly, I'd also like to see no more than a three bird limit in this part of the state. Here we're just too prone to bad hatches for the increased pressure/kill. We don't have the birds we had ten years ago, and it's my impression, and that of more than one wildlife professional, the increased pressure makes it hard for the occasional "boom" hatch to even things out. Gobbler decoys are a part of that. Simply a new development that kills a lot of turkeys that wouldn't otherwise be killed. Brings into question if harvest is compensatory or additive. Not an argument; just food for thought.

My ethics are my own, and, while it would be nifty if everyone shared them, I don't judge others based on them.

[VaTuRkStOmPeR]

Okay,...we all need to take a deep breath and settle down.

Although I totally agree that there are some boundaries that we should all agree on in terms of how we conduct ourselves as hunters, there are also a number of things that are not so black and white.  The things that are in the "gray area" vary a bit for each of us.  All of us have our own conditions and circumstances under which we must hunt. 

From my travels turkey hunting, I know for a fact there are folks in other parts of the country that hunt in ways that I personally prefer not to,...and they feel completely comfortable and justified in doing so.  They hunt that way because, over time, they have come to the conclusion that using whatever tactics they do are needed to consistently, or even occasionally, be successful under the conditions in which they hunt.

Again, as long as those tactics are legal and can be applied safely where you hunt, hunt the way you want.  If I don't hunt where you do and under the conditions that you face there, it is hard for me to justify taking a position against your hunting methods, regardless of if they conform to my own "standards" or not.

You're such a politician, man.  I, like you, have traveled, guided and shot turkeys in more states than I have toes and fingers. I acknowledge that different places present unique sets of challenges that vary from habitat to terrain to bird density to season dates and stages of the breeding cycle when you get there.  Anyone who travels to chase them is aware of those things.

Now please explain the following to me:

When is roost shooting ok, gobblenut? How is hunting over bait (like they do in Texas) or being allowed to hunt 100 yards away from it in Florida ethical? How is crawling towards a gobbler with a fan in front of you, knowing full well that most gobblers will see that as a confrontational act and charge the decoy ethical?

These are three tactics that virtually ensure success.  I could careless about someone's sensitivity or offense to my perspective because I think it's a disgrace these practices are even considered acceptable amongst our ranks.  We owe it to the birds to say enough is enough and it seems the very organization and people entrusted as stewards of the resource have lost sight of that in favor of inclusion and $$$$. 

The wild turkey was a hell of a lot better off before all of this nonsense and turkey hunters then were more captivated with the art of killing turkeys than the bloodlust for filling tags.

[GobbleNut]

Gobbler decoys are a part of that. Simply a new development that kills a lot of turkeys that wouldn't otherwise be killed. Brings into question if harvest is compensatory or additive. Not an argument; just food for thought.

I agree entirely with this assessment,...not from just TN, but as a phenomenon across the country.  The fact is that the onslaught in the use of gobbler- imitation visual aids is getting a bunch of older-age-class birds killed that would not otherwise succumb to calling tactics.  The verdict is still out on whether that will ultimately have an impact on turkey populations, in general, but there is little doubt that it is, or will soon be, impacting the number of mature gobblers that are in the woods each spring. 

One question to ask is whether gobblers will eventually adapt to gobbler-imitation use and stop running helter-skelter to them,...like they did to a degree with the use of turkey calls.  I certainly hope they will over time, but in the meanwhile, hunters are either going to have to accept the fact that there are going to be fewer mature gobblers running around each spring, and hunting quality is going to suffer,...or we are going to have to accept a decrease in opportunity to hunt in the form of lower bag limits and shorter seasons. 

As I see it, as things stand now, there will be no other choice. 

[GobbleNut]

You're such a politician, man.  I, like you, have traveled, guided and shot turkeys in more states than I have toes and fingers. I acknowledge that different places present unique sets of challenges that vary from habitat to terrain to bird density to season dates and stages of the breeding cycle when you get there.  Anyone who travels to chase them is aware of those things.

Now please explain the following to me:

When is roost shooting ok, gobblenut? How is hunting over bait (like they do in Texas) or being allowed to hunt 100 yards away from it in Florida ethical? How is crawling towards a gobbler with a fan in front of you, knowing full well that most gobblers will see that as a confrontational act and charge the decoy ethical?

These are three tactics that virtually ensure success.  I could careless about someone's sensitivity or offense to my perspective because I think it's a disgrace these practices are even considered acceptable amongst our ranks.  We owe it to the birds to say enough is enough and it seems the very organization and people entrusted as stewards of the resource how lost sight of that in favor or inclusion and $$$$. 

The wild turkey was a hell of a lot better off before all of this nonsense and turkey hunters then were more captivated with the art of killing turkeys than the bloodlust for filling tags.

  Yeah, I suppose I am to a degree,...but I prefer to think of it as being objective.  Regardless, I agree with some of your comments, as I suspect many of us do.

You lump roost shooting (unethical to most, if not all), baiting (unethical to a lot of us, but probably not a much as roost shooting), and gobbler visual aids,...decoys, fanning, etc. (verdict still out with an awful lot of us) all in the same category.  Again, the point is that what is black and white to some is not quite so easy to categorize for others. 

Just because I or others currently accept gobbler imitations as legitimate hunting tools if someone wishes to use them, does in no way mean that I/we accept roost shooting or baiting as acceptable.  At the same time, some states still allow roost shooting (I wish they wouldn't), and in others (Texas) shooting over bait is a standard practice and a lot of folks seem to think it is fine.

This brings to mind an example of those "gray areas" I mentioned.  Some of us frown whole-heartedly on shooting over artificially baited sites.  Yet, there are lots of folks that plant food plots on their private lands for turkeys and have no issues with setting up on those food plots and shooting turkeys that come to them for lunch.  Tell me what's the difference there? 

Some of us are absolute "purists" in turkey hunting,...but most likely, the great majority of us are not.  When we start condemning others because they are not "pure" enough, we are really beginning to slide down the proverbial "slippery slope".

[spaightlabs]

Okay,...we all need to take a deep breath and settle down.

Although I totally agree that there are some boundaries that we should all agree on in terms of how we conduct ourselves as hunters, there are also a number of things that are not so black and white.  The things that are in the "gray area" vary a bit for each of us.  All of us have our own conditions and circumstances under which we must hunt. 

From my travels turkey hunting, I know for a fact there are folks in other parts of the country that hunt in ways that I personally prefer not to,...and they feel completely comfortable and justified in doing so.  They hunt that way because, over time, they have come to the conclusion that using whatever tactics they do are needed to consistently, or even occasionally, be successful under the conditions in which they hunt.

Again, as long as those tactics are legal and can be applied safely where you hunt, hunt the way you want.  If I don't hunt where you do and under the conditions that you face there, it is hard for me to justify taking a position against your hunting methods, regardless of if they conform to my own "standards" or not.

You're such a politician, man.  I, like you, have traveled, guided and shot turkeys in more states than I have toes and fingers. I acknowledge that different places present unique sets of challenges that vary from habitat to terrain to bird density to season dates and stages of the breeding cycle when you get there.  Anyone who travels to chase them is aware of those things.

Now please explain the following to me:

When is roost shooting ok, gobblenut? How is hunting over bait (like they do in Texas) or being allowed to hunt 100 yards away from it in Florida ethical? How is crawling towards a gobbler with a fan in front of you, knowing full well that most gobblers will see that as a confrontational act and charge the decoy ethical?

These are three tactics that virtually ensure success.  I could careless about someone's sensitivity or offense to my perspective because I think it's a disgrace these practices are even considered acceptable amongst our ranks.  We owe it to the birds to say enough is enough and it seems the very organization and people entrusted as stewards of the resource how lost sight of that in favor or inclusion and $$$$. 

The wild turkey was a hell of a lot better off before all of this nonsense and turkey hunters then were more captivated with the art of killing turkeys than the bloodlust for filling tags.

Gotta be rough living in a world of gray when you see only black and white - I'd guess your blood pressure is through the roof.

How do you feel about bow hunting for turkeys?  Can't even begin to estimate how many pass through /run off to die elsewhere encounters there are a year nationally...I know a couple of outfitters pretty well - the number of bow-shot birds lost is substantial.  Should it be banned?

[Greg Massey]

I say hunt the way you want and live the way you want because in the end you will be judge by one person the good lord above...Guys don't waste your time on trying to over think turkey hunting. The day you think you have master turkey hunting it will bite you in the butt..turkeys are going to do what turkeys do regardless how we think...

[drenalinld]

anyone think roost shooting is easy??

[TrackeySauresRex]

Okay,...we all need to take a deep breath and settle down.

Gotta be rough living in a world of gray when you see only black and white - I'd guess your blood pressure is through the roof.

I'm going to guess this is not the time to bring up the new Savage 212 60 yard turkey slayer,that they just put out? 

Just remember all.... We're all on the same team.
B-Well
Johnny
Chill-Ax

[Greg Massey]

I don't think killing a turkey is easy at all I've saw people miss with a shotgun...