Hybrid?

[BlakeJ]

I'll post some more pics of our awesome Nebraska hunt later, but you experts tell me if my bird (right) is a hybrid. I think it's pretty obvious. It was in Mills Nebraska, mostly merriams in the area, but hybrids are also there.

[jblackburn]

I'd say you're right.  Judging from the body feathers (very dark, not a lot of sheen reflection) it's mostly Merriams.

Secondary fan feathers are darker than a Rio but lighter than an eastern.  As I sit here, I'm looking at fans from Missouri, Oklahoma, and Kansas and yours doesn't really match any of them. 

Congrats on the birds!

[BlakeJ]

I contacted the nwtf about registering it, it should be in the top 60ish for the state. They said the way you register hybrids is to just go off of what ever one it's closest to.

[GobbleNut]

Fact is, it those birds were taken in the same area, and they are a few generations down the line in an area where two subspecies have been introduced, they are both likely to be hybrids.

True, one does look more "Merriam-ish", and the other more "Rio-ish" in terms of the lighter coloration of the fan and rump feathers, but that coloration doesn't mean a lot when identifying these subspecies. 

I can tell you this,...if you kill a true Merriams and a true Rio from their indigenous ranges, you can tell the difference in them immediately (in good light), regardless of the whiteness or buffness of the fan/rump feather coloration.

Now, just speculating based on the picture, I too would guess those are both predominately Merriams birds, but with the one on the right perhaps having a bit more Rio genetics in him.  I would speculate that because of the body coloration and the size and "look" of the tail fan of both birds.  Those appear to have good size fans,...more typical of Merriams.  Rio fans are generally smaller in relation to the size of the rest of the bird. 

Also, if you look closely, the tips of the lower white fan feathers and rump on the bird on the left appear to have a bit of curling on the tips of those feathers,...which is typical of Merriams (and Goulds), whereas the one on the right does not show that characteristic (or at least it is not obvious).

Finally, you can make out just a hint of a goldish sheen in the few feathers on the rump of the bird on the right that would indicate some Rio blood in him.  That sheen on a true Merriams is totally different,...with more of a metallic purplish look to it rather than an obvious gold look.

[BlakeJ]

I agree that there are some rioish traits in my bird, but there aren't any rio genetics in the area. I think it's just the way the easterns and merriams mix there.

Basically I'm just gonna register it as a merriam. All of the distribution maps show tyat area is merriams, with some eastern hybrids as well. So the closest thing I can call it is a merriam. I'm happy with it either way. Maybe the nwtf should start keeping records of hybrids.

[DirtNap647]

congrats

[tomstopper]

Hybrid or not, that's still a great looking bird. Congrats......

[mudhen]

I've hunted Mills for many years.

There are a few white birds there, but mostly dirty birds.

The white ones are pretty nice though.

I'd call them all hybrids in that area, but you are certainly free to call it whatever you want, maybe buff Merriam's?  They look 60%+- to me 

Love the river.....

mudhen

[GobbleNut]

I agree that there are some rioish traits in my bird, but there aren't any rio genetics in the area. I think it's just the way the easterns and merriams mix there.

Basically I'm just gonna register it as a merriam. All of the distribution maps show tyat area is merriams, with some eastern hybrids as well. So the closest thing I can call it is a merriam. I'm happy with it either way. Maybe the nwtf should start keeping records of hybrids.

I just assumed by glancing at the picture that the subspecies intergrade there must be Merriams and Rios.  That explains the large fan on the Rio-looking gobbler.  Definitely a mix in that bird then,...not so sure about the other one.

[Gooserbat]

In any area where two subspecies overlap it's going to happen.  Where I live in Oklahoma the birds are classified as Easterns but go 40 miles west and they are Rios.  I hunt some property that's 15 miles west of my house and those bird sure don't look like the Eastern birds I kill in Missouri.  That said there are other indicators other than feathers to look at.  The most common is the bone structure, ie length of the lower leg bones and the size of the feet. 

[surehuntsalot]

congrats