Interesting debate going on in Missouri

[jakebird]

Well, not being from MO, or one who hunts there, I have no dog in this fight, but I'd like to throw my hat in the ring and just state my opinion on one topic you addressed in the original post. You stated that as bowhunting was about the challenge, that archers should not have a need for their own week of hunting. Well, according to that logic, we could apply that to each state's deer season and tell archers to just hunt with bows during the firearms season and eliminate all early archery seasons. I doubt you'll sell that idea to very many folks. Archery brings it's own unique set of challenges aside from having to share the woods with gun hunters. A comparison of any state's archery vs firearm harvest success ratios will be largely skewed toward the gun hunters, regardless of species hunted. One week for them to enjoy the woods without folks blasting birds off the roost isnt too much to ask, imo. Keep in mind that bowhunters represent a huge and vocal faction of the hunting community.   

[Hooksfan]

Comparing archery deer and archery turkey is not a good comparison, IMO, and that is where the folks who are worried about the pressure have a great point.  Archery deer hunters are not using run and gun (bow) methods and constantly calling and bumping the deer.  I realize many will hunt from blinds, but I can guarantee you there will be a bunch of folks rambling through the woods calling that don't stand a chance getting drawn on one.  I'd bet most of the turkey hunters on here would get fighting mad if they ran into someone on public land calling to the birds before season--I believe it would have the same effect.  Besides deer are....well....stoopid.

Besides, we already have an archery turkey season in Missouri that runs from Sept 15-Jan 15 in which hunters are issued two archery tags with their fall deer archery tags.  Is 4 months not enough to have a special archery season?

[6x6 bull]

The crowd that doesn't bowhunt are always the ones that say "All the birds will be educated and it will make it harder for me to kill one in the gun season". If you just look at the success rates for the two states that are close to MO, KS and NE you will see that the firearm success hasn't gone down since they started a separate archery only season but has actually gone up. If MO counts the archery kill as the first bird and not let us hunt the first week of gun season then there would actually be less crowding for the gun hunters and maybe a more satisfying hunt for them also.

[deerhunt1988]

Got my survey filled out and sent back...We have made a yearly trek to hunt Missouri for the past 5 seasons and are very glad to see the MDC want hunter input.

I am 100% for all day hunting. That is one way the state can be sure they continue to receive our money. With the decreasing hunting quality on the public land we hunt, we have discussed several times heading to other states simply for the fact we could get more time to hunt. The hardcore turkey hunters will use the afternoons to their advantage while the majority will be sitting at home.

As far as the early archery season, I really have no opinion. On one hand, I wouldn't want people messing with the birds before gun hunters get a chance. But then again, with the one bird limit the first week, it could create less pressure the first week of gun.. I know some people with limited time to  hunt may take their trip to Missouri to try and take advantage of the early bow season rather than hunt the the first week of gun as they normally do. And success is going to be less with a bow, so.... There won't be much harm at all done..

I'd be interested to see what effect diminishing the 1 bird the first week rule would have on hunting pressure. I know a lot of non-residents plan their trip to start hunting the very end of the first week because of the rule..If that rule is diminished, I imagine opening week pressure would be absolutely RIDICULOUS on public land. I'd personally like to see the rule stay. But this is just a non-resident's opinion.

[fallhnt]

IL. did the same thing a few years back but no regulations have changed yet. Do you know if they sent out questionaires when they changed the archery season in 2004 or the fall shotgun turkey season in 2005 ?

[Punisher]

If a special archery season is wanted, make it the week following the close of the  regular gun season. 

[SinGin]

Well I called the MDC today to request a questionnaire. Nobody called me back. If you want to call, the number is (573)884-6861

[gmbellew]

 I don't see why, with having some of the best turkey hunting in the nation, Missouri would want to change their turkey season. I hunt Missouri public and private and I wouldn't change a thing about the season.  Why are people always trying to "fix" something? 

[stinkpickle]

I don't see why, with having some of the best turkey hunting in the nation, Missouri would want to change their turkey season. I hunt Missouri public and private and I wouldn't change a thing about the season.  Why are people always trying to "fix" something? 

Probably 'cause more and more people are skipping over Missouri and going to Kansas where they can hunt all day long...for twice as many days...and possibly tag out in one day...for nearly half the price.

[gmbellew]

I don't see why, with having some of the best turkey hunting in the nation, Missouri would want to change their turkey season. I hunt Missouri public and private and I wouldn't change a thing about the season.  Why are people always trying to "fix" something? 

Probably 'cause more and more people are skipping over Missouri and going to Kansas where they can hunt all day long...for twice as many days...and possibly tag out in one day...for nearly half the price.

Let them go. Comparing Kansas to Missouri turkey hunting is apples to oranges.  I hunt Kansas also, so I have some experience in both states.

[SKFOOTER]

I hunted Missouri for almost 20 years, but haven't been back since 2009.  MDC kept increasing the non-resident license fee to the point where I said enough is enough.  I might consider going back if they allowed all day hunting, but $200 to hunt public ground for a handfull of days is a little too much.

[stinkpickle]

I don't see why, with having some of the best turkey hunting in the nation, Missouri would want to change their turkey season. I hunt Missouri public and private and I wouldn't change a thing about the season.  Why are people always trying to "fix" something? 

Probably 'cause more and more people are skipping over Missouri and going to Kansas where they can hunt all day long...for twice as many days...and possibly tag out in one day...for nearly half the price.

Let them go. Comparing Kansas to Missouri turkey hunting is apples to oranges.  I hunt Kansas also, so I have some experience in both states.

Same here.  Depending on where you hunt in both states determines which state is the apple and which state is the orange. 

[GSLAM95]

I fully support the idea of all day hunting.  I am not in favor of the early archery season.  While a lot of folks cite the increased pressure as a factor for why they oppose it, and I agree that it will have an impact--especially on public ground--increased pressure is not why I oppose it.
I am not in favor of it mostly on the principle that I do not believe archery hunters need to have an early season.  I have hunted in Kansas during the early archery season and would likely do it in Missouri as well, but I don't think we need it.  If folks chase them with a bow for the increased challenge, then why would they need to have the advantage of an early season?
I also believe that coyotes will be the greatest beneficiary of an early archery season.  I believe if most folks were honest they would admit there is a high wound rate here--Not necessarily for a lot of folks that I know who are deadly with a bow and live and breath turkey hunting.  But  I would argue they would be in the minority and there would be a lot of clueless goofs "feeding the coyotes".
At the least, it looks like turkey hunters in Missouri will have a lively debate to keep up their interest in the off season this year.

I have hunted many of the states early bow season only for turkey and personally welcome and praise the idea of an early bow season in any state! 
One thing I have noticed in my travels of the early bow season is many of the farmers and ranchers I have met are more eager to grant permission to hunt when they see that I am hunting gobblers with a bow instead of gun.  Many of those landowners are surprised that someone would take on the extra challenge when so many fail to harvest with even a gun.

You don't seem to like bow hunters for some reason from what I read in your above comments as you are extremely eager to point fingers and call names. 
Although I agree there are some who are not proficient with their choice of archery weaponry I will say I have seen just as many or more who hunt turkey with their choice of firearm/load that made me shake my head as much or even more as they think they now have the super duper full proof extra long range new load!
It is only a selfish hunter looking out for his own particular way of hunting turkey that would go against adding an early bow season.  I hunt pressured turkey every year in many places with my home state of IL being a prime example as we have 5 continuous seasons and a lottery drawing for both county & season specific permits with a chance at 3 permits being able to be drawn if successful.
Our birds see a longer hunting season than MO but you know as well as I do the fifth week can be as good as the first in any given area depending on many circumstances. 
If you think MO has it rough just look at IL regs sometime...  I would gladly go from being able to kill 3 birds with our lottery county and season specific system to an over the counter tag purchase 3-4 week statewide 2 bird limit with an early archery season like many states have.

If you want to complain about something that makes for educating your birds I think the taking of only one bird the first week would be a better argument as I have seen many times where a guy could be limited out with his two birds in one set up and out of the woods for the rest of the season. 
Instead the sibling gobbler wathces his brother get shot and many times gets educated to calling, decoys etc in short order and is now perhaps more difficult to call in the next time...  That same hunter is now spending more days in the woods walking and calling putting pressure on and "educating" birds.....

I will put this argument in the "Hate to accept change" category!  As an example IL bowhunters will soon be sharing the 2nd half of archery season (prime rut) with the crossbow hunters of all ages.  Some are having a problem with accepting crossbows.  I personally don't use one but will not hate on someone who does.. 
I know Ohio turns out some dandy bucks just like IL and they have had crossbows allowed for years during the regular archery season.  My point is there were many Ohio hunters who at first hated the addition of crossbows and thought it would be the ruination of their deer hunting.  Here we are years later and it is as good or better than ever...
I see the same thing happening with turkey hunting as the early archery season would not even be given a second thought after a couple of years of it being implemented into the program..
Turkey hunting to all.....


   

[6x6 bull]

Very well said GSLAM95. I couldn't agree with you more.

[Neill_Prater]

This is likely to be a long reply. I am a native of Southwest Missouri, lived here my entire life. I saw my first wild turkey circa 1974, and began chasing them in 1977. In those days, the season was two weeks, with a limit of one bird per week, meaning if you didn't fill the first week's tag, it was no longer valid. The MDC took a very conservative approach to the season and limits, and with good reason, as birds had been absent from much of the state for 50 years, and had to be restocked. Our flock was still growing, and the idea was to provide hunting opportunities while still ensuring the growth and expansion of the fledgling flock.

Some time around 1980, or perhaps before, a fall season was added in select counties. The first few years, there was substantial interest, but it rapidly diminished while the popularity of spring hunting increased dramatically, much as it has across the nation. Eventually, another week was added to the spring season in the late 90's. There were many then who were sure the sky was falling. The harvest did increase rather substantially by, if my memory serves me correctly, approximately 10,000 birds over the previous year, but instead of the hunting getting worse, it kept getting better until around 2004 or 2005 when it hit a peak, and Missouri was arguably "the place to go" when it came to turkey hunting. All the while, the MDC kept the regulations on the conservative side, keeping the 1 bird the first week rule in effect, along with closing at 1:00 daylight time, and the relatively short three week season.

Then came the reality check. Several years of poor hatches and heavy spring flooding caused significant reductions in the population, and we all came to the realization events in the natural world that we can't control have more to do with the number of critters running around than anything we can control, such as whether or not you can hunt in the afternoon. Someone mentioned Kansas as being the "go to" place now. If you think that is true, try a little hunting in SE Kansas. I started hunting Kansas in the early 90's, always in the SE portion of the state, due to the proximity of my home, and the hunting was phenomenal, even on public land. You didn't even get too excited if you messed up an opportunity to bag a bird, because all you had to do was go down the road a mile or two, and you would likely get on another in short order. Then, about six years ago, super heavy rains, as much as 15 inches or so overnight, absolutely devastated the flock.

I haven't seen the questionairre mentioned in the original post, but I did particpate in one such survey by the MDC several years ago, probably in the late 1980's, or early 1990's. I've thought about that survey many times since then, and realize now that the results were likely skewed very much toward the way of thinking of whomever was in charge of turkey biology at that time. I can't recall the exact questions, but for example, they were like, "would you rather have a 2 bird limit and a better chance at a mature gobbler, or a greater bag limit with reduced opportunities to bag a mature bird?" Well, hell, everybody wants a mature bird. Right? It was the same with the other questions, each reply other than the "preferred" response to issues like all day hunting was given a negative connotation.

So, here we are in 2012, still stuck with the "one bird the first week" regulation, which, in my opinion, outlived its usefulness about 20 years ago. Sure it means there are fewer hunters in woods the second day of the season than there are the first, and even fewer the third, and so on, until the weekend, when everyone and their uncle shows up from other states, because who is going to get here opening day and potentially set around the rest of the week, unable to hunt? If, however, we stayed with a one bird per day limit that first week instead, a goodly portion of those fellows would be back at the house by the first weekend, effectively reducing the hunting pressure.

As for the 1/2 day hunting, it doesn't effect me personally all that much now that I am retired and can go virtually every morning if I so desire, but I am in favor of all day hunting. I think it would be similar to the adding the additional week 15 or so years ago. The harvest would likely increase, but would level off after the first year. I have a feeling if we could see a computer readout over the years of successful hunters who tagged out, the same names would be there virtually every year. In other words, I suspect the same hunters have a tendency to bag their two birds every year, meaning they aren't going to kill any more just because of more opportunities afield. What it would do is increase the opportunities for many who now don't get to hunt very much or at all, and the increased harvest would likely come from these individuals. What I feel is ironic is how conservative the MDC's approach to the spring season is, supposedly to prevent overharvest, when all the while, they have liberalized regulations for the not so popular fall season, which is now up to a full month in length, you can hunt all day, and you can kill two birds on a single day. They have even reduced the tag price rather substantially for the fall season. This makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

As for an early archery season, I don't bowhunt at all anymore, so it wouldn't benefit me directly, but I also don't feel it would be all that detrimental to gun hunting either, and I would support one as long as the bag limit is shared. As to whether one is "needed" or not, I don't know, but I believe the thinking is the additional harvest would be minimal.  

In my dream world, Missouri would go to a 30 day spring season while allowing all-day hunting, and would institute a 3 bird annual bag limit, which would include not only the spring but fall firearm and archery seasons as well. In theory now, one can legally bag 6 birds between all the seasons, and 4 of them can be hens. Going to a 3 bird annual limit would allow people like myself, who have little or no interest in the fall seasons, the opportunity to do more hunting in the spring here at home.