Speed Kills: Yes or no?

[MossRem]

I remember reading in Sports Afield in the late 1980s about this new turkey "wonder shell" from Federal that had a whopping 2 ounces of copperplated shot in a 3" hull. A few years later, when I started trying to hunt turkeys, I just took it as a given that I had to have a 2 ounce load, too. Everybody had one, right?
Then in the late 90s, the Winchester Supreme came along and turned the lead shot world on its end and all the other ammo companies that sold lead followed suit. The faster load was "in".
Do any of you feel like the new faster loads are better...or do you miss the old 2 ounce loads? I shot up all mine some years back...except for a few Remington Premier #5s...

[Tom Foolery]

The faster loads have patterned better from my turkey guns. 


3" 1.75oz HV and 3.5" 2oz HV Winchesters for me please.

[FttFttVroom!]

I remember when Remington put out their version of a high velocity turkey load to compete with Winchester.  My gun, a Remington 870 nonetheless, hated them

[surehuntsalot]

killed a many a bird with those old slow 3.5"2-1/4oz and 3" 2oz shells
never lost a bird with them

[MossRem]

I remember when Remington put out their version of a high velocity turkey load to compete with Winchester.  My gun, a Remington 870 nonetheless, hated them

I've never owned a Remington shotgun that liked Remington turkey loads. Go figure...

[trkehunr93]

I remember reading in turkey and turkey hunting years ago about shell choices and how everyone was going to 3" or 3.5" shells when at the time, mid 90's, a 2 3/4" shell had higher velocity even though it had less payload.  Guess thats why I hung onto shooting 2 3/4" 6's up until a few years ago.  My how times have changed, a buddy of mine has an old Win 1200 that he killed a slew of birds shooting Win XX 2 3/4" 4's thru a full choke, I witnessed one shot well past 40 that I told him not to take yet and he did and the turkey went down stone dead.  He has since had it camo dipped and had rhino install a custom choke, still has to shoot 2 3/4" because thats all the gun is chambered for.  Hoping he wills it to me, love that gun!

[Michigander]

Considering the fact that as weight doubles, energy doubles, but as velocity doubles, energy quadruples. How would lead 6's at 1200 fps compare with steel #6's at 1700 fps, understanding that the lighter shot will loose energy more quickly? Just curious.

[stinkpickle]

Considering the fact that as weight doubles, energy doubles, but as velocity doubles, energy quadruples. How would lead 6's at 1200 fps compare with steel #6's at 1700 fps, understanding that the lighter shot will loose energy more quickly? Just curious.

Pb 6s @ 1200 fps @ 40 yds = 1.61" gel penetration
St 6s @ 1700 fps @ 40 yds = 0.97"

Pb wins hands down. Steel is an awful substitute.

Agreed.  Steel might start with an advantage out of the muzzle, but at a certain distance, the lead pellet's energy will overtake it.  I don't have any cool calculators or formulas, but I'll guess it at 28.3558 yards.   

[mnbirdbuster]

I end up going through a transition every year, in shoot trap/sporting clays with all summer with lead, but do all my pheasant and waterfowling with steel! That being said i tend to like steel loads that are 1 1/4oz or more, the lighter payloads tend to be faster and tend to have a blown out pattern! Ive found this same phenomenon with lead as well! The lighter lead loads, although faster tend to have poor patterns for me! The Rem Nitro Turkey loads 2oz @ 1300fps do pattern well for some reason though! Otherwise i always shot/experimented with the heaviest loads i could find! Upwards of 2 3/8oz has worked for me before

[Michigander]

Thanks guys, that's about what I figured.

[stinkpickle]

Considering the fact that as weight doubles, energy doubles, but as velocity doubles, energy quadruples. How would lead 6's at 1200 fps compare with steel #6's at 1700 fps, understanding that the lighter shot will loose energy more quickly? Just curious.

Pb 6s @ 1200 fps @ 40 yds = 1.61" gel penetration
St 6s @ 1700 fps @ 40 yds = 0.97"

Pb wins hands down. Steel is an awful substitute.

Agreed.  Steel might start with an advantage out of the muzzle, but at a certain distance, the lead pellet's energy will overtake it.  I don't have any cool calculators or formulas, but I'll guess it at 28.3558 yards.   

Stink,
Actually, in the above example, the lead load overtakes the steel load with regards to penetration 2 yds from the muzzle.

Oops!  My decimal got a little shifted there.  I meant to write 2.83558 yards instead.  Yeah...that's the ticket.   

[WildTigerTrout]

I like the HV loads. A little less shot but more speed. They also pattern well in my guns.

[Richyb]

I like the faster loads also. I get a better pattern with faster #6, 1.75 3 1/2" old rem hevi than I do with the #6, 3 1/2" 2.25 hevi shot.  Even tho they are not lead loads The faster load with pretty much the same material with less pellets in it works better for me .

[MossRem]

Back in the 90s, I kept hearing about 2 oz turkey loads not killing birds dead enough, about guys having to put repeat shots in and having to step on necks of sharp-spurred flapping birds.
I would suppose the combination of short barrels, long range, and 6 shot may have had something to do with that. From what I understand, it's supposed to take a little over 2 foot pounds of energy for a pellet to penetrate well enough to put a bird down. 6 shot runs out of gas faster than 4 or 5. That's a proven fact. But what that means in actual practice, I don't know. Some folks can hit pretty far out with 6 shot. I'd rather not try, but that's just me.
What I didn't like about the 2 oz loads was how overchoked they got in my guns. The patterns would just be devastating at 25 yards but got thin, thin, thin out past that.
The 2 and 3/4 inch loads always looked better at 35 yards. I would get a more even distribution of shot up close and at a distance. Tight chokes and heavy payloads of lead sometimes don't make a good combination, I think.