Jake or Tom?

[Treerooster]

I have also seen Jake's with a full fan...

For the first time this year I also saw a Jake with 3 breads, had him at 15 yards

Had a friend that shot a bird with Jake spurs, Jake beard and what he thought was a full fan. When looked at closely tho the 6 center tail feathers were about 1/2" to 3/4" longer than the rest of the fan.

I believe it was a Jake that for some reason had its adult tail feathers coming in just slightly longer than the juvenile ones. It would be  very hard to determine that at any distance. That's what I think of whenever someone talks about a full fan Jake.

Anamalies happen in nature but feather moult is a pretty solid trait.

[RutnNStrutn]

If you don't know, don't shoot

That's how I do it Z. I called in a male bird a few weeks ago. It snuck up a hill and peeked over the top with just his head and neck showing. It looked like a mature tom but I couldn't tell, so I didn't shoot. It finally walked the rest of the way up. Small body, short beard, a jake.

[davisd9]

Early born Jake. That wing band is not full.

[austinc]

Jake, wing patch is not full

[joey46]

My biggest concern with these no Jakes rules is the multitude of hunters that may shoot one with a 5" beard then say "oopsie" thought it was 6" and leave it for the coyotes. My IMO is that it happens in states such as MS more often than some think.  Again only a public land problem.  Mistakes on private easily put in the trunk and cleaned later.  Of course they are never reported if mandatory harvest reporting is required.  A waste on many levels.  Personally if a licensed legal hunter takes a Jake, counts it in his limit, it is fine with me.  We can be an elitist bunch at times.

[Treerooster]

davids9 and austinc are correct.

But I already posted the answer above. 

[Bowguy]

That's all you got to go on. Grass is too tall to see spurs.

Than look at the head and snood

[Gooserbat]

Wing feathers says Tom.  Spurs and fan not pictured for confirmation but I'm saying Tom.  The little bit of back and fan plumage shown looks like a Meriam or possibly a Rio so a lacking beard is not uncommon.

[Treerooster]

That's all you got to go on. Grass is too tall to see spurs.

Than look at the head and snood

How is the snood on a Jake different from a Tom's? And make it and identifiable at 20 to 30 yards?

[Bowguy]

That's all you got to go on. Grass is too tall to see spurs.

Than look at the head and snood

How is the snood on a Jake different from a Tom's? And make it and identifiable at 20 to 30 yards?

It's usually noticeably bigger. The head size and shape def are. I was showing a guy last week exactly that.
At 20-30 yards my I can tell and my eyes are rough anymore.
I'll not say anything could be perfect but if I see a small head, less pronounced snood well you tell me

[joey46]

At this time and places I hunt I won't shoot a Jake.  If I make a mistake it won't be a disaster.  He'll end up being counted in my limit and cooked in the oven.  IMO not a big deal. Seems to be big deal to the elitist clique at times on certain forums.  Some people that actually work and have limited time to hunt are more than happy with a Jake harvest.  Good for them.

[Bowguy]

At this time and places I hunt I won't shoot a Jake.  If I make a mistake it won't be a disaster.  He'll end up being counted in my limit and cooked in the oven.  IMO not a big deal. Seems to be big deal to the elitist clique at times on certain forums.  Some people that actually work and have limited time to hunt are more than happy with a Jake harvest.  Good for them.

I finally agree w ya!!

[Treerooster]

At this time and places I hunt I won't shoot a Jake.  If I make a mistake it won't be a disaster.  He'll end up being counted in my limit and cooked in the oven.  IMO not a big deal. Seems to be big deal to the elitist clique at times on certain forums.  Some people that actually work and have limited time to hunt are more than happy with a Jake harvest.  Good for them.

I like to take just Toms and I agree with you.

But that's not what this thread was about. I just wanted to show another way to identify a Tom from a Jake. But mention Jake & Tom in the same sentence and it's a darn good bet the thread will go to the debate.

And the head is another way but to me that speculum stands out. If nothing else it's just a confirmation.

[Bowguy]

More than one way to skin a cat and everyone observations could be considered. It's better to have second, third things to check to help with id as you're noting. I'd not think anything was a debate. Just additional info

[Treerooster]

No I meant the debate of whether or not to shoot a Jake. Sorry if I wasn't clear.