Bird Numbers Down/ Decrees The Limit ?

[Borsy]

Regarding the OPs original question, I wonder what percent of the spring harvest in TN is filled by non-resident hunters?

[Greg Massey]

Regarding the OPs original question, I wonder what percent of the spring harvest in TN is filled by non-resident hunters?

Good question, i wonder what that number is myself ...

[Marc]

I would rather see a tightening of the regs regarding legal means of harvest than a decrease in bag limit. Make it harder to kill them = more turkeys.

I would agree with that...  No decoys on public land, restricted decoy use on private...  No electronic decoys (or  electronic calls).

But...  I have a suspicion that you could dramatically decrease the number of harvested birds, and we would still see a decline.

Pheasant populations plummeted here in California, and there is nobody hunting them anymore (primarily cause there are not enough to hunt).  Populations are NOT increasing. 

Habitat is the limiting factor...  Improve the habitat, and turkey numbers will increase.  Something similar to CRP but on a larger scale...  Hunters and hunting organizations would have to fund such programs.

[eggshell]

Decreasing limits does reduce the number of Out of state hunters when a neighnoring state stays at their original limit. I see it here in Ohio since we went to one bird. It was very common to see Out of State tags before and now it is rare. I know two leases that have OOS lease owners and both quit turkey hunting, because it's not worth it for them to travel in their minds. Does this make a difference in the flock, no not at all. The birds are just killed by locals anyway and your talking 2 birds per lease on average. I have hunted Ky for 38 years and the last two I have seen 2-3 times the number of ohio plates in Ky. I actually hunted more days in Ky than Ohio last year, mainly because of the limit here. I live an hour from the border. In the end it matters to hunters, but very little to the birds. I do not think liimit restrictions are a sound management strategy at all. Shorter seasons and regulating methods would do more. Ohio went to two gobblers way back when we had less birds than now and the flock still grew, why does it matter now? The short answer is it does not. Most limit reductions are just a way to appease the hunting community. we all scream, "do something" and changing limits is the fasttest and easiet way to say, "we hear you". Biologically it's a farse and false prohecy. Something else is reducing our flocks not an extra gobbler harvested here and there. Research shows in our state only 40% of hunters actually fill a second tag.

[Happy]

But...  I have a suspicion that you could dramatically decrease the number of harvested birds, and we would still see a decline.
I agree somewhat, Marc. However,when you take a lot of areas in the midwest or any large agricultural areas for that matter and factor in how most of the turkeys in those settings are killed. I bet you would be shocked. I am not saying nest and predator control isn't a factor. But more people are hunting turkeys, and more people are killing turkeys due to new advanced equipment and high-odds methods. Private landowners loading up on corn and hunting it isn't helping.

[TonyTurk]

The above posts by Marc and Eggshell are spot-on, IMO.  Human hunters in most areas are not the biggest problem causing populations to be down.  I think Florida might be an exception.

I used to hunt one state almost exclusively because the 3 bird limit was enough to keep me happily hunting all season.  Since that state dropped their limit to 1 bird, I now travel more and hunt a neighboring state, that I probably never would have hunted otherwise.

And when it comes to decreasing bag limits, be careful what you wish for.  Once opportunity is taken away, it won't be given back. 

[zelmo1]

I dont think any one state is 100% right. There are pieces that make sense in my state but not in others. Most of the birds shot here are during the youth season and the first week. You can shoot 2 in a day if you register the first bird, then a second bird is legal. Jakes are legal targets here too. Personally, I would like to see a 1 jake limit per season and only 1 bird during the youth hunt and first week of the season. These are just the ramblings inside my head, lol. But seriously, turkey hunting is my passion and I want to see more positive efforts to protect the resource. I understand there is a monetary side to this problem. Limits and seasons are the same here for everyone. If you are paying triple for a license, you should not be penalized again. Z

[quavers59]

    All States  should  confer with each other and say- OK- No Decoy  Use on Public in 2024.

[Old Timer]

New York has half the birds it use to but seems also half the turkey hunters. Last year they shortened the fall season and went to a 1 bird limit. DEC kept spring season the same. Strange deal deer hunting we see trucks constantly from out of state at some of the areas we hunt. My son was having a cow over this and I had to tell him calm down. He said dad you don`t understand I put in a lot of pre season work to get some good spots for you as your older then these guys show up. Well son our state does not limit out of state licenses. They are legal to hunt as we are. Let`s just move on. At my age im happy to be in  God`s great outdoors. But it really does not sit well with him. It`s all about the money in this state. Good day.

[Greg Massey]

I feel if they decrease the bag limits to the residence people of that state to save turkey population, then i feel they should do away with OOS people traveling to that state for couple of years or have a limited number of tags, as everyone has said we have more and more people turkey hunting NOW...  It's all about the future of saving the turkeys RIGHT?   SOMETIMES man can be the predator or worst enemy to the future of the turkeys... IMO.... lots of good posts... Let's take Public land as a resident tax payer WHY should i have to pull up to a public piece of land and see 5 out of state vehicles and not one local vehicle. I mean we have it posted on the forum all the time about the numbers of out of state people camping out at gates and the number of OOS people.  Again if you decrease the turkey limit you should decrease the overall number of OOS travels... IMO....

[POk3s]

I came here specifically to mention the Nebraska thing. I see it was just brought up. Everyone seems okay with it fit now. They found a number they could live with and cut down the total amount of non residents able to kill turkeys there. 10,000 was their magic number. They were for sale for longer than I envisioned before selling out.

[mountainhunter1]

Couple of thoughts.

The FL/GA battle over hunting and fishing is well known by Northern and Central Floridians.  GA is better at charging for their resources and FL should do the same.  Don't be more restrictive, be more expensive.  We are one of the few states that does not charge for the privilege of OOS hunters to come here and kill an Osceola.  I would even like to see a special OOS Osceola tag that is priced accordingly.  And then the money used for habitat. 

GA hunters pay about 200 to hunt FL for turkey (for 10 days public land), FL hunters pay 325 to hunt GA for turkey.  I agree with GA, not Florida.  No where else you can kill an Osceola and we should charge for it. 

I go to my local ramp (salt) and there will be 50% plus GA residents.  I don't mind them being here, but they should pay more than residents, by a lot.  Not as a penalty, but as a way to pay for the privilege to fish here.

Ga offer a limited license for non residents where they can buy one day and add additional days there after. Not sure what the cost is. The regs are confusing.

Unless it has changed in the last year or so, it is 150 dollars for day one, and 14 dollars for each additional day you hunt.

[FLGobstopper]

I feel if they decrease the bag limits to the residence people of that state to save turkey population, then i feel they should do away with OOS people traveling to that state for couple of years or have a limited number of tags, as everyone has said we have more and more people turkey hunting NOW...  It's all about the future of saving the turkeys RIGHT?   SOMETIMES man can be the predator or worst enemy to the future of the turkeys... IMO.... lots of good posts... Let's take Public land as a resident tax payer WHY should i have to pull up to a public piece of land and see 5 out of state vehicles and not one local vehicle. I mean we have it posted on the forum all the time about the numbers of out of state people camping out at gates and the number of out of OOS people.  Again if you decrease the turkey limit you should decrease the overall number of OOS travels... IMO....

I agree and or at the very least shorten the season for OOS on public lands and limit it to later in the season. In FL for example give first 2 weeks to residents.

[Marc]

America is still a free country for the most part and that is much of what I love about where we live.

But still, if the turkey is in trouble, does anyone need to be killing 10-20 or more turkeys a year at this point?

I cannot speak to everyone doing this...  But those who I know that really travel to turkey hunt, are also the ones making the largest donations towards conservation...  Kinda' a double edged sword here

Also, most of the people I know that can afford such travel (in time and money) are generally hunting far more private lands which of course are better managed for turkey hunting, and have higher success rates...  And the hunting of these areas are likely not affecting the over-all turkey populations of the state negatively (due to these land owners making money from managing turkeys).

I would in fact argue, that to some degree out of state "pay-to-play" hunting will incentivise some land owners to improve turkey habitat as a means of alternative financial income.  Which also sends turkey hunting down the road of being a bit elitist.

And...  I still avidly maintain, that if the main way we address the turkey decline is to limit hunting, we will see it decline faster... 

In California, we had tremendous numbers of pheasants even 20 years ago...  It was not uncommon to kick up covies of hundreds of birds at the end of a ditch.  Currently, it is uncommon to put up even one.

But the following have decimated pheasant populations in California, to a point that it is more likely than not that they will never recover from:

*Farmers selling land for development
*Farmers becoming (and needing to become) more efficient in land use to make an income (i.e. no fallow corners, no weeds in the orchards, etc.)
*Clear cutting ditches for better/more efficient water use.
*Drip irrigation and the efficiency of such only irrigating the particular crops has probably not helped.
*Mosquito spraying campaigns (largely due to West Nile) killing not only mosquitos but most of the other insects pheasant poults need for survival.

Frankly, I do not know enough of the agricultural and farming practices that are taking place outside of California, so I can only assume that similar issues are taking place.

If you want turkey numbers to rebound, much of that will rely upon farming...  And in order for them to get on board with such practices, they will either have to financially benefit, or at the very least, not financially lose, to jump on board with such programs.

To me, addressing turkey decline by decreasing turkey harvest is like giving a dying patient morphine to die a more comfortable death...  Ultimately, we would treat that patient for the pain short-term, and address the actual disease long-term to get the patient healthy, and off the pain control.

[Spitten and drummen]

My take , again my opinion. States want to take hunting days away and decrease limits. Ok , let's take a look at fall hunting. Either sex is allowed. Let's look at youth season. A week before regular season. PLENTY gobblers killed during that time by many not so youth. Habitat is a mess. All about the mighty dollar. There are several factors at play that created the perfect storm. The season has all ways started the same date here in Mississippi for as long as I can remember. I saw the population explode and I've seen it sparse. Back in the day people trapped because fur bearing animals were worth something. When I was a kid , we hunted the same dates as everyone else. Timber was still being cut but not on the same level as it has been the last 20 years. Money drives this and I have no issue with timber companies making money. My issue is the aftermath of the cut. The cutovers are not maintained because it cost money , therefore it grows back up into a briar thicket with the replanted pines which in turn produces higher numbers of predators. Then corn feeding is legalized for deer hunters , many feed year around , helping nest predators such as coons to have population explosions. These are just some of my thoughts. Maybe they should just cancel out of state turkey hunting for the next 5 years. My money says that won't make one iota of a difference. Over and out.