My can of worms.

[mookyj]

You sir just made my point.  It's about your way being the right way.

Gonna have to call you out on a disingenuous post to start with. You set up an assumed precept that no criticism can be leveled at methods that can be reasonably argued unsafe, with too much on kill vs fair chase, and so on, pick one. Where your premise truly falls short is that you fail to account how a lot of this you deem should be accepted without question is cause for making us as a group appear in a poor way to non hunters and far too self serving in "anything goes." Do we truly rely on govt agencies and laws applied to be good sportsmen or do we instill ethical sportsmanship among ourselves and in that view, your post and the premise you put forth fails miserably. We live in a society that no longer wants to put in the work, efforts to achieve a honorable goal and would just soon phone it in with any means necessary shortcut to satisfy a demand for instant gratification. In that the old school traditionalists prove out a time honored tradition worthy of the long view.

[Gooserbat]

You sir just made my point.  It's about your way being the right way.

Gonna have to call you out on a disingenuous post to start with. You set up an assumed precept that no criticism can be leveled at methods that can be reasonably argued unsafe, with too much on kill vs fair chase, and so on, pick one. Where your premise truly falls short is that you fail to account how a lot of this you deem should be accepted without question is cause for making us as a group appear in a poor way to non hunters and far too self serving in "anything goes." Do we truly rely on govt agencies and laws applied to be good sportsmen or do we instill ethical sportsmanship among ourselves and in that view, your post and the premise you put forth fails miserably. We live in a society that no longer wants to put in the work, efforts to achieve a honorable goal and would just soon phone it in with any means necessary shortcut to satisfy a demand for instant gratification. In that the old school traditionalists prove out a time honored tradition worthy of the long view.

Actually I never called any method unsafe.  That is your perception.  I will agree that under certain circumstances some methods are unsafe. As far as "fair chase" I don't adhere to the concept.  It's a term I feel is thrown around by an elitist crowd who at the least sneer at those who don't do it their way.  Fanning, Indians were doing it before the white guy showed up. Calling, Zane Gray the early 1900s outdoor writer, Novelist and Conservationist said it was unsportsmanlike to call a turkey during the breeding season.  I believe in minding my own business, I also enjoy though provoking dialogue.  I also enjoy the challenge of calling turkeys and as stated way back 5 pages ago that I have used about every method mentioned,

I would rather look down the gun barrel and shoot a tom that I have called to 25 yards than any other way.  I feel proud and accomplished when I do.
That doesn't discredit me as a hunter if I use a decoy, which I have only killed 2-3 over simply because I don't like packing them around.  Neither does it make me a anything else if I ambush a call shy bird or fan a henned up Tom.  It only means I used the tools in my bag to kill a turkey.  You as a hunter have the option and the right to put your personal tools in your bag but don't discredit someone who uses different tools.

[mookyj]

If you read my response in context, fair chase was used only as a broad term and that was intentional as such. "minding ones own business" is not an end all be all and skirts the responsibility of us as practitioners of our sport to promote it in the best light. You are in fact labeling those that criticizes poor practices and poor behaviors all in the quest to promote killing rather than hunting. It plays into the hands of those that would just soon abolish hunting all together. In the essence of this you speak of not labeling others all the while it is what you are doing against those wishing to maintain the integrity of a time honored tradition.  I ask that you not read this as spoken in a harsh tone. It is not my intention.

[eggshell]

One of the great flaws of the Internet is: there is no way to discern intent or inflection. Literally read text is often mistaken as intent. we should all take a lot of levity in making assumptions about what someone is actually trying to say. I am certain I have said things that offended people when it was never my intent and vice/versa. This forum is about sharing thoughts and discussion and I try to never take anything personal, unless it is an obvious personal attack, and yes I have had a couple of those. OG does a pretty good job of weeding out the true trouble makers. I think everyone here has a passion for prospering Wild turkeys and turkey hunting, we just have differing opinions. I could most likely share a day of turkey hunting with 98% of you and enjoy myself. Sometimes our text needs a little more explanation and I don't think our discussions are endangering our sport much. Heck the anti-hunters are too caught up in their own self glorifying mission of social Justice and they have other platforms at the time. A quote of someones post from a hunter's forum will carry very little clout with the general non-hunting public. I for one am in post season chill mode....

Sure I'll post some opinions and get pretty involved in these discussions, but hey I can't hunt so I  talk about it

[Meleagris gallopavo]

If you read my response in context, fair chase was used only as a broad term and that was intentional as such. "minding ones own business" is not an end all be all and skirts the responsibility of us as practitioners of our sport to promote it in the best light. You are in fact labeling those that criticizes poor practices and poor behaviors all in the quest to promote killing rather than hunting. It plays into the hands of those that would just soon abolish hunting all together. In the essence of this you speak of not labeling others all the while it is what you are doing against those wishing to maintain the integrity of a time honored tradition.  I ask that you not read this as spoken in a harsh tone. It is not my intention.

The issue with the whole debate, for me anyway, is who decides what is a poor hunting practice and why is it considered poor?  Where is it written?  Is it etched in a monument or on a tablet somewhere?  Some book an old, traditional turkey hunter wrote?  Is there a list somewhere that I can read outlining virtuous hunting tactics?  I guess for me I have an issue with who decides what's right and wrong about how one chooses to turkey hunt. 

Once again, the game laws are designed to limit how many animals are harvested and how they are harvested.  These are laws, which gives them authority.  I'm cool with authority.  I follow the letter of the law.  There are some legal hunting tactics that I don't care for personally.  There are tactics I use, like decoys, that many on OG don't care for, and that's perfectly fine.  I have an issue with someone imposing their hunting belief system on others and labeling those that don't follow that system as killers or less-than-adequate hunters, or lazy.  What makes it worse is that most doing the criticizing have never used the non-traditional tactics they so despise.  So all they know is based on videos, social media, hearsay or perception.  Non-traditional practices may help someone kill a turkey in a high percentage of situations, but they are in no way a guarantee of success.  I say again, the only way you know this is by using non-traditional tactics to better judge their effectiveness.  Making judgments without actual knowledge falls squarely in the arena of not knowing what you are talking about.


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[the Ward]

Seen a couple posts on previous page that prove my point about "purity" Got a question for them. New guy joins Old Gobbler because he wants to start turkey hunting. Comes here because this forum is the best place for turkey hunting info. He posts a question about getting a decoy and how to use it. Gets dogpiled by a the usual suspects. He leaves and goes elsewhere for info. How is that helping this site, or turkey hunting in general? I keep hearing " I don't care how others hunt" but then they can't restrain themselves from posting how others are wrong, and they have committed a mortal sin. A safety or legal issue? Sure, speak up. Don't like the topic? You don't have to post in it. Simple.

[GobbleNut]

Interesting discussion, and a lot of points and opinions about what is couture, or not, in this thing we do. 

Simply stated from my own perspective, I don't care how you go about killing your gobblers,...again, as long as it is deemed legal where you hunt.  What I do care about is that you start out understanding how your hunting method, and your attitude about killing turkeys, impacts the resource. (The subject of "what's legal where you hunt" is a matter for another discussion).

We have spoken about declining turkey populations ad nauseum on this forum for years.  News Flash: there reaches a point in that decline where we have to recognize that we should not be killing every single turkey we can just because thirty years ago there were enough turkeys around that we could kill several of them each year!  Regardless of how one hunts, each of us should take that fact into consideration in terms of not how you hunt, but how many turkeys you take out of a struggling population. 

Personally, I will take the guy that kills one gobbler using a fan,...and then stops hunting because he understands that the turkey population where he hunts cannot sustain itself if he kills two, three, or four more,...over the "great caller" that goes ahead and kills several more without any recognition of the fact that, perhaps, he should not be doing that for the good of the resource.  (Granted, the guy that uses a fan or male turkey decoy that just keeps pulling the trigger because gobblers keep coming is a different story altogether)

"Great" turkey hunters start from the groundwork of understanding the limitations of the resource and adjusting their hunting attitudes around that. Doing anything less than that, regardless of how good you think you are at this or what methods you use, just makes you a detriment to the resource, and the rest of us that hunt it. 

[Gooserbat]

If you read my response in context, fair chase was used only as a broad term and that was intentional as such. "minding ones own business" is not an end all be all and skirts the responsibility of us as practitioners of our sport to promote it in the best light. You are in fact labeling those that criticizes poor practices and poor behaviors all in the quest to promote killing rather than hunting. It plays into the hands of those that would just soon abolish hunting all together. In the essence of this you speak of not labeling others all the while it is what you are doing against those wishing to maintain the integrity of a time honored tradition.  I ask that you not read this as spoken in a harsh tone. It is not my intention.

First killing is the end result of hunting and second I don't take your tone as harsh.

Different views are fine, devouring one another isn't.  That's the entire point of this thread. 

[Gooserbat]

Interesting discussion, and a lot of points and opinions about what is couture, or not, in this thing we do. 

Simply stated from my own perspective, I don't care how you go about killing your gobblers,...again, as long as it is deemed legal where you hunt.  What I do care about is that you start out understanding how your hunting method, and your attitude about killing turkeys, impacts the resource. (The subject of "what's legal where you hunt" is a matter for another discussion).

We have spoken about declining turkey populations ad nauseum on this forum for years.  News Flash: there reaches a point in that decline where we have to recognize that we should not be killing every single turkey we can just because thirty years ago there were enough turkeys around that we could kill several of them each year!  Regardless of how one hunts, each of us should take that fact into consideration in terms of not how you hunt, but how many turkeys you take out of a struggling population. 

Personally, I will take the guy that kills one gobbler using a fan,...and then stops hunting because he understands that the turkey population where he hunts cannot sustain itself if he kills two, three, or four more,...over the "great caller" that goes ahead and kills several more without any recognition of the fact that, perhaps, he should not be doing that for the good of the resource. (Granted, the guy that uses a fan or male turkey decoy that just keeps pulling the trigger because gobblers keep coming is a different story altogether)

"Great" turkey hunters start from the groundwork of understanding the limitations of the resource and adjusting their hunting attitudes around that. Doing anything less than that, regardless of how good you think you are at this or what methods you use, just makes you a detriment to the resource, and the rest of us that hunt it.

I agree 100 percent.  I personally hunted 5 states, and killed 6 birds this year.  The two I killed here in Oklahoma were shot 150 miles apart. 

[PalmettoRon]

This is an interesting conversation. It sounds a lot like some of the conversations regarding golf. I personally wouldn't care if decoys and game cameras were outlawed, not that I am advocating that. Full scale baiting is legal in TX and hunting outside of 100 yds of bait is legal in other states. As far as I know chufa and other food plots which is essentially baiting is legal everywhere. Hunting near cattle and where waste grain is present in "normal" agriculture practices is legal. Digital camoflauge is legal. Thermacell is legal. Seatbacks are legal. Scopes, red dots, etc are legal. 3 1/2" 12 gauge shells with TSS, Heavyshot, etc are legal. Airline travel to other states to hunt is legal. A search of the Internet for hunting areas is legal. OnX and GPS make fear of getting lost much less of a problem.

There are a ton of things that have evolved that make it much easier to kill a turkey. The interaction with a gobbler is to me what makes it exciting. Some of my best hunts have been the ones that the gobbler won. I didn't fill my last tag in SC this year as I got obsessed with a bad bird. He won this year. Good for him. I spent 7 days after him. I hope he makes it to next Spring!


I don't know what the answer is regarding turkey hunting ethics and the law as they are not necessarily one and the same to me, but I do know as hunters we need to stick together. Tactfully express your views to others if they don't hunt as you choose to hunt.

It's not a black and white deal. Henry Davis, the author of The American Wild Turkey, written in the 40's looked with disdain upon those who hunted turkeys in the Spring---said it was too easy. Yet, he killed a lot of turkeys when there were not many present and used a rifle.

We need to educate the younger hunters it's more about the entire experience than the actual kill although I like to kill gobblers and travel far and wide mostly on public land to do my share of hunting and yes killing.

We all need to think before speaking, express our point of view without showing disdain and stay united.

[eggshell]

I agree with both of you, Gooserbat and Gobblenut. My example is our family properties. Owned by cousins, in-laws and myself. I have a huge influence if not out right control on turkey hunting on these properties. I do not regulate any method of hunting, but I do regulate the kill. I set a number before season and when it's hit I pull out and tell all the landowners it's enough. They know I have done this for years and the flock is stable, so they agree and let me make the call with maybe an exception for a grandchild. For almost 50 years we have had a stable flock with just year to year variations. In low brood years I may call it at just a bird or two. The entire group of properties is almost 1200 acres with most of it continuous and there's a neighbor with 600 more who regulates harvest. I allow 1/3 of estimated mature gobblers to be harvested a year and then it's done. I have guys begging me to let them in, but I don't do it. It is a set of 4-5 guys that we know will honor the rules. It works, as we have some of the very best turkey hunting around me.

I might add. it is a registered tree farm with a sustainable  timber plan and managed woods. Plenty of natural food and fields mixed in. My cousin won national tree Farm of the year once for his conservation plan. It's a pretty good example of what can be done in my book and we're pretty proud of it. Yes, we've even had the NWTF come in and look at it. One of their biologist has done some timber/ habitat improvement.

And we'll have your a$$ arrested if you sneak in. We live on it and are on it every day

[Paulmyr]

Seen a couple posts on previous page that prove my point about "purity" Got a question for them. New guy joins Old Gobbler because he wants to start turkey hunting. Comes here because this forum is the best place for turkey hunting info. He posts a question about getting a decoy and how to use it. Gets dogpiled by a the usual suspects. He leaves and goes elsewhere for info. How is that helping this site, or turkey hunting in general? I keep hearing " I don't care how others hunt" but then they can't restrain themselves from posting how others are wrong, and they have committed a mortal sin. A safety or legal issue? Sure, speak up. Don't like the topic? You don't have to post in it. Simple.

He can go pet some puppies or something  if my opinion  of using decoys effects him that much.

[the Ward]

Seen a couple posts on previous page that prove my point about "purity" Got a question for them. New guy joins Old Gobbler because he wants to start turkey hunting. Comes here because this forum is the best place for turkey hunting info. He posts a question about getting a decoy and how to use it. Gets dogpiled by a the usual suspects. He leaves and goes elsewhere for info. How is that helping this site, or turkey hunting in general? I keep hearing " I don't care how others hunt" but then they can't restrain themselves from posting how others are wrong, and they have committed a mortal sin. A safety or legal issue? Sure, speak up. Don't like the topic? You don't have to post in it. Simple.

Thank you for making my point for me. 

He can go pet some puppies or something  if my opinion  of using decoys effects him that much.

[Paulmyr]

And what point is that. That snowflakes determine what my opinion should be and whether or not I have a right to voice it?

[Meleagris gallopavo]

All my puppies end up being hunting, or I guess now, killing dogs depending on someone's perception about how I use them.  I have a Boykin Spaniel that I got to retrieve ducks.  He's okay at that.  They also have used Boykins to flush turkey flocks in the fall to aid a hunter/killer in calling the separated individuals.  I don't use him for that though.  Lately I think he'd make a good squirrel dog. 


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