My can of worms.

[the Ward]

No offence to anyone, but we are killing the O.G. forum with all the nonsensical purity tests.I have no problem with anyone's hunting methods as long as they are legal. Don't like the laws? Work on changing them instead of demonizing your fellow hunters. People pay taxes, buy licences and tags, follow the game laws, and then get treated like lepers, just because they don't follow "your rules". News flash, what might be tradition where you live, might be frowned on where i live. It is turkey hunting, not a religion. What is "Old School" anyways? Shooting them off the roost with a flintlock is hard core old school, is anyone advocating that? Shooting autoloading shotguns with depleted uranium ammo with red dots is old school? Or is old school just someone's personal  perception on how things ought to be? It seems we have less and less new members joining O.G., and staying here, every year. For the record, i hunt with just calls, seldom use a decoy, and occasionally enjoy sitting in a blind on a rainy day on my back 40 when i'm not hunting public land. All i ask of my fellow turkey hunters is to be safe and follow the law, and be respectful of others. 

[AndyN]

My season consisted of 5 archery birds (blind and decoys), then a buddy came to visit and shot two with his crossbow (blind and decoys) one of which was 52yds, called in a shotgun bird to the decoys for a buddy and shot a bird myself from that same setup later in the day, then finished off my season with a nice fan crawl. All ended with a legally harvest bird and some smiles. All equally excititing with the exception of that 52 yarder with the xbow after the bird hung up for 45min with his hens in the decoys. That being said 52yds is a chip shot for the TSS guys. I've shot one bird without a decoy in the past 4 seasons and that was a NE bird that I crawled within 60yds of in a pasture and called across a fence. Aside from that the last time I consistently hunted without one was chasing easterns in the timber growing up in IA. I've taken 5 with a fan over the years only one of which was a hard charging bird like you see in so many videos. The other times it was something to keep their attention off of you while you slip into range . 3 out of 4 birds would pay zero attention or run the other way. Different strokes for different folks. Whacking one with a fan is about as tough as "calling one in" to 60+yds and shooting it with a $10 shell.

[Greg Massey]

I think part of the rub is on this whole "traditional vs new age" is from where this criticism comes from as well. Is it coming from an "I am better than you" standpoint or is it from a " Hey, let's protect the resource and not act like a bunch of lazy,spoiled children" perspective? Our appearance matters and the fact that killing a turkey by any legal means necessary has now taken center stage is not a good look in my opinion. It certainly plays a huge role in who I decide to spend time in the woods with.

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Good post .. Amen...

[RutnNStrutn]

I think part of the rub is on this whole "traditional vs new age" is from where this criticism comes from as well. Is it coming from an "I am better than you" standpoint or is it from a " Hey, let's protect the resource and not act like a bunch of lazy,spoiled children" perspective? Our appearance matters and the fact that killing a turkey by any legal means necessary has now taken center stage is not a good look in my opinion. It certainly plays a huge role in who I decide to spend time in the woods with.

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Good post Happy!!

Sent from deep in the woods where the critters roam.

[RutnNStrutn]

No offence to anyone, but we are killing the O.G. forum with all the nonsensical purity tests.I have no problem with anyone's hunting methods as long as they are legal. Don't like the laws? Work on changing them instead of demonizing your fellow hunters. People pay taxes, buy licences and tags, follow the game laws, and then get treated like lepers, just because they don't follow "your rules". News flash, what might be tradition where you live, might be frowned on where i live. It is turkey hunting, not a religion. What is "Old School" anyways? Shooting them off the roost with a flintlock is hard core old school, is anyone advocating that? Shooting autoloading shotguns with depleted uranium ammo with red dots is old school? Or is old school just someone's personal  perception on how things ought to be? It seems we have less and less new members joining O.G., and staying here, every year. For the record, i hunt with just calls, seldom use a decoy, and occasionally enjoy sitting in a blind on a rainy day on my back 40 when i'm not hunting public land. All i ask of my fellow turkey hunters is to be safe and follow the law, and be respectful of others. 

Yes sir!!

Sent from deep in the woods where the critters roam.

[owlhoot]

My season consisted of 5 archery birds (blind and decoys), then a buddy came to visit and shot two with his crossbow (blind and decoys) one of which was 52yds, called in a shotgun bird to the decoys for a buddy and shot a bird myself from that same setup later in the day, then finished off my season with a nice fan crawl. All ended with a legally harvest bird and some smiles. All equally excititing with the exception of that 52 yarder with the xbow after the bird hung up for 45min with his hens in the decoys. That being said 52yds is a chip shot for the TSS guys. I've shot one bird without a decoy in the past 4 seasons and that was a NE bird that I crawled within 60yds of in a pasture and called across a fence. Aside from that the last time I consistently hunted without one was chasing easterns in the timber growing up in IA. I've taken 5 with a fan over the years only one of which was a hard charging bird like you see in so many videos. The other times it was something to keep their attention off of you while you slip into range . 3 out of 4 birds would pay zero attention or run the other way. Different strokes for different folks. Whacking one with a fan is about as tough as "calling one in" to 60+yds and shooting it with a $10 shell.

What made the 52 yard xbow shot not so exciting?

[Meleagris gallopavo]

I had something profound to say again but forgot what is was while catching up on the posts.  Oh yeah, just remembered it.  The folks that may need to read this thread are typically not those on OG.  The very VAST majority of turkey hunters don't look for or give information on hunting forums or Facebook for that matter.

Another scenario I'd like to put forth is what would the traditionalists have done had the newer methods of turkey hunting been introduced 50 years ago?  Were decoys illegal to use 50 years ago?  If they were available and legal would the "old timers" have used them?  Who knows what a younger version of yourself would have used to hunt turkeys if other hunters had been using them at the time successfully and legally.  Not all young hunters today end up reaping or using decoys but many do.  It's an option.  Folks end up using what they're used to, comfortable with, or what's available at the time.  There are hunters today that kill more birds than they legally should or kill too many in general by whatever means necessary, legal or illegal.  There were hunters doing that 50 years ago as well.  I could go on but I'm getting bored with that line of thinking.

Turkey populations per state is another issue I have that I've seen used in this thread.  When I read that the turkey population is 20 or so thousand in a given state that's probably accurate/decent information.  But if you were to break that down to mature hens and gobblers that would be more meaningful, but really hard to obtain.  If I were to guess what the ratio of mature gobblers to hens is in my area, based on what I see, I'd say it's about 4-6 hens per gobbler.  There may be an optimal ratio and if you know it please share.  We, or at least myself, don't shoot hens.  Hopefully we try to harvest mature male birds.  To me, and this may be nonsense, limits should be set according to the number of harvestable birds.  It may not be easy to do but it would be a more accurate way of doing it.  Then is that equitable for the whole state?  Obviously there's a lot of variability within each state.  You may have turkeys running out the wazoo in one part of a state and in another part it makes local news to just see one.

Those of us on this forum enjoy talking about turkey hunting in general in an online format.  I know no local turkey hunters that know about OG and when I bring it up they roll their eyes or just don't seem to care.  Most know what they're going to do and how and where they're going to do it.  You're on this forum because you care enough about turkey hunting to share experiences, read about other peoples experiences (I personally love reading about and telling turkey hunting stories), buy and sell turkey calls, talk about turkey calls, talk about turkey guns and shells and other turkey related stuff.  Notice I didn't mention decoys.  Sure people post topics on decoys from time-to-time but most unknowingly do so at great risk of persecution.  At least one person on here will chime in and tell the OP to stop using decoys and learn to call.  Big turn off for new members.  I talk about using decoys from time to time but I reluctantly do it.  But if I'm to tell the truth about my hunting experiences I need to do so.  Of all the subforums on OG there is no decoy forum.  Obviously a popular tool for hunting turkeys but no place for it here.  Refuge forum has a decoy subforum along with calling.  Duck hunters use decoys and calling to hunt ducks.  There are some obvious differences between hunting ducks and turkeys but the basics remain the same.  I wonder what the traditional duck hunters would say if duck decoys were suddenly introduced?  I know what they say about spinning wing decoys.  It's a little different with ducks because spinning wing decoys are hard to resist for young, uneducated birds.  Turkey decoys work the same way but have the ability to bring in more mature birds.

I don't have answers, only questions.  I consider OG members to be mostly people of good conscience that want to learn, teach and share about turkey hunting.  I only purchase calls recommended here by OG members because I trust you.  Let others feel welcome here without judgment of legal hunting methods or they'll go somewhere else and maybe listen to others that may lead them astray. 


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[eggshell]

Meleagris gallopavo

Hmm, are you sure posting rational common sense is allowed on the internet? 

[AndyN]

What made the 52 yard xbow shot not so exciting?

Something about a 50+yard shot doesn't make me feel like I've "won the game". Out of the 10 birds I was on this year all but two were from 8yds to 25yds. That being said that bird hit a 60yd wall 4 days in a row so it felt good to seal the deal.

[dawei]

I had something profound to say again but forgot what it was while catching up on the posts.  Oh yeah, just remembered it.  The folks that may need to read this thread are typically not those on OG.  The very VAST majority of turkey hunters don't look for or give information on hunting forums or Facebook for that matter.

Another scenario I'd like to put forth is what would the traditionalists have done had the newer methods of turkey hunting been introduced 50 years ago?  Were decoys illegal to use 50 years ago?  If they were available and legal would the "old-timers" have used them?  Who knows what a younger version of yourself would have used to hunt turkeys if other hunters had been using them at the time successfully and legally.  Not all young hunters today end up reaping or using decoys but many do.  It's an option.  Folks end up using what they're used to, comfortable with, or what's available at the time.  There are hunters today that kill more birds than they legally should or kill too many in general by whatever means necessary, legal or illegal.  There were hunters doing that 50 years ago as well.  I could go on but I'm getting bored with that line of thinking.

Turkey populations per state is another issue I have that I've seen used in this thread.  When I read that the turkey population is 20 or so thousand in a given state that's probably accurate/decent information.  But if you were to break that down to mature hens and gobblers that would be more meaningful, but really hard to obtain.  If I were to guess what the ratio of mature gobblers to hens is in my area, based on what I see, I'd say it's about 4-6 hens per gobbler.  There may be an optimal ratio and if you know it please share.  We, or at least myself, don't shoot hens.  Hopefully, we try to harvest mature male birds.  To me, and this may be nonsense, limits should be set according to the number of harvestable birds.  It may not be easy to do but it would be a more accurate way of doing it.  Then is that equitable for the whole state?  Obviously, there's a lot of variability within each state.  You may have turkeys running out of the wazoo in one part of a state and in another part it makes local news to just see one.

Those of us on this forum enjoy talking about turkey hunting in general in an online format.  I know no local turkey hunters that know about OG and when I bring it up they roll their eyes or just don't seem to care.  Most know what they're going to do and how and where they're going to do it.  You're on this forum because you care enough about turkey hunting to share experiences, read about other peoples experiences (I personally love reading about and telling turkey hunting stories), buy and sell turkey calls, talk about turkey calls, talk about turkey guns, and shells and other turkey-related stuff.  Notice I didn't mention decoys.  Sure people post topics on decoys from time to time but most unknowingly do so at great risk of persecution.  At least one person on here will chime in and tell the OP to stop using decoys and learn to call.  A big turn-off for new members.  I talk about using decoys from time to time but I reluctantly do it.  But if I'm to tell the truth about the hunting experiences I need to do so.  Of all the sub forums on OG, there is no decoy forum.  Obviously a popular tool for hunting turkeys but no place for it here.  Refuge forum has a decoy subforum along with calling.  Duck hunters use decoys and calling to hunt ducks.  There are some obvious differences between hunting ducks and turkeys but the basics remain the same.  I wonder what the traditional duck hunters would say if duck decoys were suddenly introduced?  I know what they say about spinning wing decoys.  It's a little different with ducks because spinning wing decoys are hard to resist for young, uneducated birds.  Turkey decoys work the same way but have the ability to bring in more mature birds.

I don't have answers, only questions.  I consider OG members to be mostly people of good conscience that want to learn, teach and share about turkey hunting.  I only purchase calls recommended here by OG members because I trust you.  Let others feel welcome here without judgment of legal hunting methods or they'll go somewhere else and maybe listen to others that may lead them astray. 


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Very well stated, my thoughts exactly.

[howl]

I don't hunt turkeys to just to kill one. If that's all it was, I'd as soon go fishing. There's much more to it. Non-traditional methods and rules don't touch it. Such hunters miss out.

And apparently turkey populations won't stand refined methods for killing them for food, anyhow.

[Meleagris gallopavo]

I don't hunt turkeys to just to kill one. If that's all it was, I'd as soon go fishing. There's much more to it. Non-traditional methods and rules don't touch it. Such hunters miss out.

And apparently turkey populations won't stand refined methods for killing them for food, anyhow.

Fishing doesn't always mean catching and hunting doesn't always mean killing.  The assumption is that non-traditional turkey hunting methods are easier and always equal killing.  That's an incorrect assumption.  I agree that non-traditional methods improve the chances of a hunter killing a bird.  I don't know too many hunters that use decoys that just sit out there with a decoy and don't call.  I imagine there are some that do.  For some folks that's enough.  I've told members of this forum about boring, textbook hunts where you get out early, set a decoy up. Hide and be still and quiet.  Use a turkey call. And a gobbler appears and begins to flog the decoy.  You shoot the gobbler.  To me, honestly that's a boring turkey hunt.  For me, I love the hunts where I don't or can't use a decoy and I hunt a bird for hours and try to figure out how to get him.  I've left the woods positively pumped up about the experience without pulling the trigger.  To me pulling the trigger is the anticlimactic finale of outwitting the bird.  So I agree with you howl, that hunters that don't experience that may be missing out on a fantastic aspect of turkey hunting.  I don't use all legal means available to kill turkeys, but I use more than strict traditionalists.  I use decoys based on hunting situations.  Often times I find that decoys can hurt your chances as many or more times than they help.  You only know this if you use decoys.  I never know what is going to work or what isn't on a particular hunt.  Turkeys may behave differently each day in a given area and they behave differently from location to location, even if the locations are only a mile or two apart.  That's challenge enough for me.  So I hunted every day except maybe 5 days from April 10th to May 15th in NC and VA.  I killed a bird on the first day in NC and the last day in VA and killed 3 in-between.  That's what I would call a perfect season.  If I would have tagged out in the first week i would have been miserable.  Probably would have taken more people turkey hunting or just gone without a gun.  My point is, that's over a month of turkey hunting, about 30 days of getting up at 4 or 4:30 AM and being in the woods till 7:30 AM on weekdays and whenever I killed a turkey or called it quits on the weekends.  That's at least 30 hunts (sometimes I go to different spots on the same day on weekends) and 5 birds to show for it.  Some folks would say I'm a poor hunter, and that may be true.  But I'm using both traditional and non-traditional tactics to hunt.  If I was just killing turkeys I should have tagged out in the first 5 days.

My theory, and this is just a theory, is that today's young or new hunters start out using non-traditional tactics and if they're too successful they get bored with it or if they're unsuccessful they quit turkey hunting.  The ones that get bored with it gravitate to more traditional methods and may become better turkey hunters because it's more interesting and challenging.  That need to make it more challenging varies from individual to individual and each hunter reaches a point where it's challenging enough for them.  There always have been hunters that hunt to kill by any means necessary their whole lives for one reason or another.  It may be ego for some to show that they can be successful to the masses or it may be that their greedy and just want to kill birds.  I have no control over any of the aforementioned individuals nor do I want it.  I only have control over what I say and do, that's it.  So say a new turkey hunter gets on OG and want to ask innocent questions about using decoys and gets slammed on here for bringing it up.  They aren't asking these questions because they're game hogs are trying to impress anyone, they're asking what they think are legitimate questions about using decoys because they've heard, read, or watched videos about using them to successfully bag a turkey.  Say that new turkey hunter continues to hunt but stays away from OG because they feel the forum isn't supportive.  That hunter begins to become fascinated with turkeys and turkey hunting and gradually gets better with woodsmanship and using traditional and non-traditional ways of hunting turkeys.  To me the fascination is with the birds themselves and the hunting is a way to interact with them.  Anyway, this new hunter becomes a fantastic turkey hunter with stories to tell and helpful experiences to share with others.  This hunter has amazing experiences and knowledge that we on OG will never know about because we ran that new hunter off.  You never know... 

[howl]

No offence to anyone, but we are killing the O.G. forum with all the nonsensical purity tests.I have no problem with anyone's hunting methods as long as they are legal. Don't like the laws? Work on changing them instead of demonizing your fellow hunters. People pay taxes, buy licences and tags, follow the game laws, and then get treated like lepers, just because they don't follow "your rules". News flash, what might be tradition where you live, might be frowned on where i live. It is turkey hunting, not a religion. What is "Old School" anyways? Shooting them off the roost with a flintlock is hard core old school, is anyone advocating that? Shooting autoloading shotguns with depleted uranium ammo with red dots is old school? Or is old school just someone's personal  perception on how things ought to be? It seems we have less and less new members joining O.G., and staying here, every year. For the record, i hunt with just calls, seldom use a decoy, and occasionally enjoy sitting in a blind on a rainy day on my back 40 when i'm not hunting public land. All i ask of my fellow turkey hunters is to be safe and follow the law, and be respectful of others. 

Expecting everything to be done by law is evil. There should be no law on every facet of the sport. You accomplish what needs doing, like making dekes shameful, by leading by example and setting people straight. We absolutely should tell a hunter the bird he killed with a pop up blind and dekes doesn't count same as we shame anyone who ground sluices a covey of bobwhites. We do these things socially by culture and tradition, not by calling a government agent to force them at gunpoint.

Respect is earned. Fanning up a youtube earns nothing but short-lived notoriety among literal and figurative adolescents.

[Meleagris gallopavo]

No offence to anyone, but we are killing the O.G. forum with all the nonsensical purity tests.I have no problem with anyone's hunting methods as long as they are legal. Don't like the laws? Work on changing them instead of demonizing your fellow hunters. People pay taxes, buy licences and tags, follow the game laws, and then get treated like lepers, just because they don't follow "your rules". News flash, what might be tradition where you live, might be frowned on where i live. It is turkey hunting, not a religion. What is "Old School" anyways? Shooting them off the roost with a flintlock is hard core old school, is anyone advocating that? Shooting autoloading shotguns with depleted uranium ammo with red dots is old school? Or is old school just someone's personal  perception on how things ought to be? It seems we have less and less new members joining O.G., and staying here, every year. For the record, i hunt with just calls, seldom use a decoy, and occasionally enjoy sitting in a blind on a rainy day on my back 40 when i'm not hunting public land. All i ask of my fellow turkey hunters is to be safe and follow the law, and be respectful of others. 

Expecting everything to be done by law is evil. There should be no law on every facet of the sport. You accomplish what needs doing, like making dekes shameful, by leading by example and setting people straight. We absolutely should tell a hunter the bird he killed with a pop up blind and dekes doesn't count same as we shame anyone who ground sluices a covey of bobwhites. We do these things socially by culture and tradition, not by calling a government agent to force them at gunpoint.

Respect is earned. Fanning up a youtube earns nothing but short-lived notoriety among literal and figurative adolescents.

I have a hard time telling if people are being serious or not on here.  So, are you being serious?


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[Paulmyr]

I don't care how you hunt. I do have  an opinion on it as does everybody else. I will voice my opinion when I see fit. Purity test killing OG. How is voicing your opinion considered a purity test. For every person sharing thier views against decoys there are  the same number If not more sharing views for them. The reader has the option to listen to whoever they like. They both are opinions and should be welcomed whether you like them or not. Ever heard of freedom of speech?
I hunt these birds in a certain way and I'm not afraid to let people know. If it hurts your feelings that I don't respect the way you hunt so be it. Not everybody gets a trophy in my world. In my opinion these birds are to be called to the point where the animal may be taken. No visual aids, no blinds just you and your calls trying to get a gobbler to go against what is inherently in his genes. For me doing it in any other way cheapens the experience. You may have a different opinion on the matter and that's Ok, just don't tell me I need to like it.