Question for someone who knows...

[Turkeyman]

a biologist perhaps. When humans of different races have children, those children typically, though not necessarily always, look like a "mixture" of both races. However, when turkeys of different sub-species breed is that the case? If it were the case, hybrids would be a "blend" but I'm not so sure that happens. For instance, I once killed two north-central KS adult gobblers one after the other that were, my guess, siblings...same size et al; one looked Rio, the other Eastern. I'm wondering if, with turkeys, it's more like leucistic deer breeding. Those offspring will be either brown or white depending upon the degree of leucism of their parents, but not a "mixture" of color as very light brown, for instance. In other words is their feather coloration etc. more a combination of dominant and recessive genes as it is with deer leucism?

BTW regarding deer leucism...if you ever have the chance, visit the old former Seneca Army depot in NY. Very pretty white deer...leucism, not albinism.

[LaLongbeard]

I was just listening to the Turkey Hunter podcast and a Georgia Biologist was talking about two things that could be related. One that some  hens seek out and  drop eggs in other hens nests it's called parasitic behavior. I have heard of this before but wasn't aware that it was as common. Second that hens will breed more than one Gobbler and have mixed fraternity clutches. I knew hens would mate with multiple Gobblers but assumed once the first breeding was done the hens ovum ducts were full and no more fertilization was needed. The Biologist said the hens will actually seek out and breed a different Gobbler after they have already started laying. So you could shoot two Gobblers that had the same hen mother but two different fathers from the same clutch. This may explain the difference in color variations ie differrnt parents.
There seems to be no end to the interesting things about the Wild Turkey. The podcast also had some good info on predators and spring burning.

[Sir-diealot]

Drove by the depot about 2 weeks ago, just across the lake from me.

[larry9988]

I hunted in Kansas once. I killed a turkey that looked like a Rio, and one that was much lighter tipped like a Merriam, not white, but a very light tan. Some have said it was a hybrid, some a Merriam. I don't know. I have hunted south Georgia for 35 years. I have killed Easterns with fan color was dark as an Osceola, as light as as a Rio and everything in between, that all had to be Easterns, as that is all we have here. Color was just different due to genetics I guess, not breeding between different subspecies. I do know that a hen can and will breed with more than one gobbler. They also can store sperm for and entire breeding season, with that being the case, it would be very easy for some of the same egg clutch to be half siblings.

[Marc]

a biologist perhaps. When humans of different races have children, those children typically, though not necessarily always, look like a "mixture" of both races. However, when turkeys of different sub-species breed is that the case? If it were the case, hybrids would be a "blend" but I'm not so sure that happens. For instance, I once killed two north-central KS adult gobblers one after the other that were, my guess, siblings...same size et al; one looked Rio, the other Eastern. I'm wondering if, with turkeys, it's more like leucistic deer breeding. Those offspring will be either brown or white depending upon the degree of leucism of their parents, but not a "mixture" of color as very light brown, for instance. In other words is their feather coloration etc. more a combination of dominant and recessive genes as it is with deer leucism?

BTW regarding deer leucism...if you ever have the chance, visit the old former Seneca Army depot in NY. Very pretty white deer...leucism, not albinism.

Pretty tough to answer this question on a post...

I am not schooled in genetics, but turkey hens do breed different toms for the same clutch of eggs from my understanding (as LaLongBeard points out).

And being in a mixed marriage myself, my two children look totally different from each other...  One favors more Asian characteristics, and the other favors more white characteristics...  And from their personalities, you would never guess they were siblings...

Any offspring picks up some genetics from mom, and some from dad...  That is why for example genetic conditions can be passed to one offspring and not another.

Dominant traits take over and recessive traits need that gene from both parents...  For example, you can have two black labs that each have genes for yellow, and those two black labs can produce a yellow pup...

BB being genetically pure black, Bb being black with yellow genetics, and bb being a yellow lab.  If mom and dad are both Bb, they will both be black themselves, with each contributing one "B" or "b" there is about a 25% chance of throwing a yellow pup...

[GobbleNut]

Those two points made by Lalongbeard (different male parents), and Marc (random combinations of genetic material from each parent) pretty much sum up this discussion.

The purer the subspecies, the less these physical differences will occur,...but even in those, there will be some level of variation.  Put two or more subspecies in contact with each other, though, and the visual characteristics of the offspring will be all over the chart.

For example, some hunters talk about shooting a "Merriam's" gobbler and a "Rio Grande" gobbler in the same area.  Unless those two subspecies were just recently intermixed with each other, those hunters have just killed two hybrids whose visual characteristics were a result of the combination of chromosomes from the parents. 

Bottom line is that there are some regions of the country where the subspecies have been in contact with each other long enough that declaring any bird shot there to be one subspecies or another is pretty much nonsense.  They are all hybrids now with physical characteristics leaning in one direction or another.

[eggshell]

I have tested genetic variance by roasting them and they all taste the same......so I consider them all tasty and eligible for eating as a "wild turkey". The color makes no difference in my hunt enjoyment or table experience. They all die the same death.

On the serious note; all that has already been said is right. I think that it is very hard to separate subspecies in areas of overlap and most birds are actually hybrids. Melanistc variations occur in all them.

[Beards and Hooks]

Drove by the depot about 2 weeks ago, just across the lake from me.
   Last went by two years ago, seen a few white deer pretty neat. I am in Pennsylvania now but my parents are still in Wayne county really cool going back by the depot and Samson State Park went there camping as a kid. They now have tours to see the deer  I believe?

[Sir-diealot]

Drove by the depot about 2 weeks ago, just across the lake from me.
   Last went by two years ago, seen a few white deer pretty neat. I am in Pennsylvania now but my parents are still in Wayne county really cool going back by the depot and Samson State Park went there camping as a kid. They now have tours to see the deer  I believe?

Not entirely sure but I think so. I am not a supporter of the heard, so I have never stopped and looked but have seen them driving by. I would not mind getting one for the pelt myself but people treat them like they are something special and they are really just a genetic defect. Funny there are so many of them where they stored a bunch of chemicals and radioactive stuff back in the day. Makes me glad I do not live in that town.