Turkey Numbers

[zelmo1]

This is just my observations. I have seen less turkeys, in more hours scouting, than ever. The last 5 years have been a sharp decline. The last 10 years, I am at 52% sightings of 10 years ago. All you southern and midwestern guys know this story. I hope we can get ahead of this and learn from others mistakes but it doesn't look that way. I am blessed with the best spot I have ever hunted in 24 years and it is exclusive to my wife and I. The land around it is being gobbled up, no pn intended, and I fear the worst is coming. Good luck to all the turkeys/hunters out there. I am an upbeat guy, but the sky is turning gray up in the Northeast. I'm doing my small part by thinning the nest raiders and coyotes, bobcats are off limits here. Good luck and god bless, Z

[Tom007]

This is just my observations. I have seen less turkeys, in more hours scouting, than ever. The last 5 years have been a sharp decline. The last 10 years, I am at 52% sightings of 10 years ago. All you southern and midwestern guys know this story. I hope we can get ahead of this and learn from others mistakes but it doesn't look that way. I am blessed with the best spot I have ever hunted in 24 years and it is exclusive to my wife and I. The land around it is being gobbled up, no pn intended, and I fear the worst is coming. Good luck to all the turkeys/hunters out there. I am an upbeat guy, but the sky is turning gray up in the Northeast. I'm doing my small part by thinning the nest raiders and coyotes, bobcats are off limits here. Good luck and god bless, Z

Same here Z. If I didn't scout 20 + days, I would have little success as of late. Years ago, scouting wasn't as prevalent when there were more birds. Good news is Saturday I saw a hen with 10 poults. Most I've ever seen. Hopefully the majority make it, but we know that's a slim possibility. Hopefully the trend of the past 2 winters here continues, as I have seen a minuscule improvement over last year. The poult sighting gave me positive hope....

[Happy]

Sign of the times, and I fear it isn't going to be getting much better with the current climate on turkey hunting. By all means, predator control is a must. However, I think it's high time we control ourselves as well. Hunt for the love of it. There is nothing wrong with letting a few walk every year. I believe it's also a good idea to spread your kills out over a large area if possible. Leave a few for next year. I just wish it was more about turkey hunting these days and not attention hunting.

Good-looking and Platinum level member of the Elitist club

[mdmitchell]

I feel your sentiment completely. Some days I feel as if this sport will be gone in a decade but I try not to let that pessimism overwhelm me.

Let's face it, turkey numbers are down. But how far down? Is this the new norm? Or are we still sliding? Who's to really say.

I think as turkey hunters, we need to limit ourselves and limit the amount of "recruiting" we're doing. Everyone thinks they're doing gods work by introducing someone to the sport but let's face it - it's crowded, too crowded. Get your kids into the sport, but maybe pass on helping the neighbors uncles kids son.... I know that sounds selfish but YouTube and the THP crowd are doing their damndest without you to destroy our opportunities and access. They just rolled through my local national forest and said "it was the worst pressure they've ever seen" - and they helped create it.

I for one would love to start seeing non resident draws. And I'm saying that as a non resident. That would slow all this super slam, glory chasing non sense and allow the local national forest to still maintain a level of respectability for residents.

I know there's trapping and habitat work and all that and it's great, 1000000% support it. But I'm more concerned about the general direction of this sport with glory chasing, reaping, Jake harvest, bearded hen harvest, full strut decoys, ground blinds, and all these means that are killing birds that for me - would be unkillable. I will not even torture myself hunting field birds because it's not a hunt. I don't use decoys, blinds or any of that $hit. So I would view those birds as ones left for next year but anymore I think someone's gonna use some cheap  method to kill that bird. And it shows... I hardly ever see birds in fields anymore. 10 years ago there were 2-3 strutters in every unsprayed ag field.

Anyways - I'm ranting. I wish I knew a solution or what the future holds because I have my 8 year old boy I'm taking out for the first time next year and it breaks my heart knowing he might not have the same opportunity I was afforded at a young age.

[Lcmacd 58]

We as hunters can do a little bit .... as has been said .... leave some for seed. But habitat and predation are a big factor in my area.

[eggshell]

I feel your sentiment completely. Some days I feel as if this sport will be gone in a decade but I try not to let that pessimism overwhelm me.

Let's face it, turkey numbers are down. But how far down? Is this the new norm? Or are we still sliding? Who's to really say.

I think as turkey hunters, we need to limit ourselves and limit the amount of "recruiting" we're doing. Everyone thinks they're doing gods work by introducing someone to the sport but let's face it - it's crowded, too crowded. Get your kids into the sport, but maybe pass on helping the neighbors uncles kids son.... I know that sounds selfish but YouTube and the THP crowd are doing their damndest without you to destroy our opportunities and access. They just rolled through my local national forest and said "it was the worst pressure they've ever seen" - and they helped create it.

I for one would love to start seeing non resident draws. And I'm saying that as a non resident. That would slow all this super slam, glory chasing non sense and allow the local national forest to still maintain a level of respectability for residents.

I know there's trapping and habitat work and all that and it's great, 1000000% support it. But I'm more concerned about the general direction of this sport with glory chasing, reaping, Jake harvest, bearded hen harvest, full strut decoys, ground blinds, and all these means that are killing birds that for me - would be unkillable. I will not even torture myself hunting field birds because it's not a hunt. I don't use decoys, blinds or any of that $hit. So I would view those birds as ones left for next year but anymore I think someone's gonna use some cheap  method to kill that bird. And it shows... I hardly ever see birds in fields anymore. 10 years ago there were 2-3 strutters in every unsprayed ag field.

Anyways - I'm ranting. I wish I knew a solution or what the future holds because I have my 8 year old boy I'm taking out for the first time next year and it breaks my heart knowing he might not have the same opportunity I was afforded at a young age.

I agree with these sentiments

[ruination]

Turkey Numbers are going to go up, Turkey numbers are going to go down.

Hunter numbers are going to go up, Hunter numbers are going to go down.

It'll sort itself out.

[Tom007]

My sighting of the hen with poults this past weekend opened my eyes on why I do not see many hens during the season. She walked away, seemingly to decoy me from seeing the poults. Of course I  stopped and stood yielding ground to her and her babies. She was so vulnerable, did not run or fly away. The poults as well as mom where easy pray for any predator. I understand it takes about 2.5 weeks for them to learn to fly. I'll venture to say that the hen/poult population is severely impacted by this period where she stays on the ground with her young. Hens have a stressful time rearing their poults until they are old enough to fend for themselves. Nature is tough, there's a lot of things that are affecting the low numbers for sure.....

[turk3ythug]

It seems to me that we are the problem, not enough gamekeepers out there that really care about the wild turkey population they would rather have a cool picture for social media and brag about tagging out or getting a grand slam or whatever. I'm also willing to bet that 50% of hunters that are killing these birds aren't even eating their harvest not that it matters since it's already dead anyways but the fact of them killing just for the kill doesn't sit right with me but maybe I was just raised to eat what I kill or don't shoot. I sound like an old head but I'm 23 and I hate this new generation of hunters and the social media aspect of it. I think we could do better on our parts.

[Greg Massey]

In the area I hunt that is private ground I have seen more turkeys in the last 2 years. I contribute this to some good hatches the past few years and a good food source with habitat improvements. I do agree with what others have said about leaving seed and not trying to kill all your turkeys in one area. The last few years after the Covid year, we have had less hunters in the woods in my area also. So i think we can also do more to improve our turkey number by planting food sources and improving habitat. The level of turkeys we saw in the earlier 2000 was never a level we were expected to continue seeing overall as time went on and the season was open for hunting. Hopefully the goal was to establish a hunt-able number. In some areas this worked and some areas didn't fare so well. So I agree I think we all can do more to help the turkey numbers improve. A lot of this is a decision as a hunter you have to make in what tools you use in helping the turkeys. IMO

[Hawkspur]

My area is getting worse yearly. More hunters, more out of state hunters and less turkeys. I can take two turkeys, but I have only ever taken one because of the population. I had several spots that I hunted since 2015 and would only see a couple other hunters back then. Now I am lucky to get on the land I have learned very well. I am excited to take my boy out when he gets big enough to hold a gun, but I am concerned it will be too late and the population will not be good. I keep hoping that the bad population will discourage many hunters and the future will be bright again.

[ruination]

It seems to me that we are the problem, not enough gamekeepers out there that really care about the wild turkey population they would rather have a cool picture for social media and brag about tagging out or getting a grand slam or whatever. I'm also willing to bet that 50% of hunters that are killing these birds aren't even eating their harvest not that it matters since it's already dead anyways but the fact of them killing just for the kill doesn't sit right with me but maybe I was just raised to eat what I kill or don't shoot. I sound like an old head but I'm 23 and I hate this new generation of hunters and the social media aspect of it. I think we could do better on our parts.

Turkeys weren't killed of by kids and you can find plenty of pile pics or strings of hung up turkeys.  They used to put your name in the paper for killing a deer.

Even in say the "old pro" turkey talk was a thing.

clout chasing is not new, it is a complete myth.  Old Man yells at sky level of stuff.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

[TonyTurk]

I saw more turkeys in the area I hunt this year than any year since 2017.  The population fell off a cliff but is definitely coming back. A couple of good hatches in a row has made a huge difference.

[mikejd]

Same where I hunt and pressure is the furthest thing from the problem.
With all the studies that have taken place its clearly nest predators. I
bet we can track it to the decline of the fur industry. NYC stopped the sale of furs about 10 years ago and now trapping numbers are way down. A few examples from the studies one I saw they had trackers on 79 nesting hens and only 1 nest was successful. Another had cameras on something like 160
ground nests that includes other birds like grouse etc. but of the 160 nests 1 was successful. Unless we all start trapping ground predators there is nothing we can do.

[Paulmyr]

Same where I hunt and pressure is the furthest thing from the problem.
With all the studies that have taken place its clearly nest predators. I
bet we can track it to the decline of the fur industry. NYC stopped the sale of furs about 10 years ago and now trapping numbers are way down. A few examples from the studies one I saw they had trackers on 79 nesting hens and only 1 nest was successful. Another had cameras on something like 160
ground nests that includes other birds like grouse etc. but of the 160 nests 1 was successful. Unless we all start trapping ground predators there is nothing we can do.

Actually new info is coming to light. Yes predators are a problem but the lack of proper habitat is forcing hens to use sub par nesting and brood rearing areas making them extremely vulnerable to predation. Some studies indicate good nesting and brood rearing cover is not used very often by predators. Good nesting cover is not often used by egg eaters and good brood rearing cover is not often used by polt eaters as well as provides security from avian predation.

There is also evidence that correlates the drop in turkey numbers with the drastic loss of early successional cover over the last 20 plus years to invasive grasses and poorly kept pine forests.

Also it sounds like some areas in the south experiencing low turkeys are subsidizing predators by the use of corn and Lots of it. These feeding stations concentrate predators and prey into small areas and and keep predator populations unnaturally high. Well above the natural carrying capacity of the land. Disease runs rampant at these corn piles a well.

Studies have also shown that without the proper habitat in place trapping predators is not very effective.

Some biologist estimate only something like 7% of the habitat available to turkeys is good brood rearing cover. Pretty pathetic when you think about it.

Don't stop trapping but if turkey numbers are going to rebound in many areas habitat improvement needs to be job one on a public and private land. Put the right habitat in place and the benefits of predator control are exponentially greater. Without the proper habitat it won't take long for trapped predators to be replaced and the turkeys will still be vulnerable to them.

If you want more turkeys burn it or plant clover.