First I would like to say that I have no problem with people videoing hunts and posting them to YouTube. Honestly I find it almost necessary to recruit new hunters into the sport. Commercialized hunting has gotten so far away from the general public, I couldn't imagine being a new hunter and trying to decipher through all the needless bs that gets pushed in every episode. With that said, I believe there is a right and wrong way to do things. Some of these YouTube channels are posting way to much information about their locations. What's wrong with just saying what state your in and leaving it at that? The hunting public has gotten horrible about it. They constantly video needless scenes to almost purposely hint where they are. One recent video even showed the freaking gate number. Them along with others will also post pictures of topos of the actual spots for no other reason than to get paid by OnX. The closer they get back to their home area though the more candid they become. In their quest to recruit new hunters, if that's even what their mission is anymore, they are forgetting about the local guys that are already fighting the fight. They are forgetting about the working dads that only have weekends to try and get their kid on a bird or deer. They are forgetting about the locals that don't have the money or time to drive 2 hours away because their closest wma has been over run by internet scouters. I can't help but get irritated when I see things like this on their videos. To me Dave Owens is the about the only one that does it right. He doesn't video many needless scenes to show where he is, you see him in the woods and that's about it. I myself don't have any children and my off time from my job lets me drive all over my state to hunt. This doesn't really affect me right now but I'm sure it is affecting other people and in time will only get worse.
Agreed. I heard the hunting public describing an early season archery buck in Kentucky. With a few pictures they posted, online telecheck info and Google maps I can say with some confidence I found the exact field where it was shot.
It has been a problem ever since Al Gore invented the interwebs. We had a bunch of duck hunting honey holes that produced all year-in our home state and other states we hunted. We lied about where we killed them and swore any guests to secrecy. We also did not overhunt them. Along came forums and videos and Gargle Earth and all those secrets are gone forever. I posted up pictures of a great hunt with s very mixed bag and I used Paint to blur out the background. You would not believe how many people got mad and/or ridiculed me on a Duck hunting forum I frequent. One guy thanked me (I hunted next to him that day).
We decided a long time ago that God does not punish one for lying about fishing holes or hunting spots. At least I dang sure hope so.
Once upon a time I took a picture with a limit of ducks at a gate that is well known but the marsh was dry due to drought. Next morning I drove by to check and 7 trucks in that parking lot.
Yea, it's getting ridiculous. All the YouTube videos have started a public land trend. It seems people just want recognition/fame for killing tons of gobblers. Mainstream hunting had already made a mockery out of turkey hunting but this "new public land /YouTube recognition junkies craze" is just getting started and will only get busier. With business incentives thru paid advertising on YT, it rewards the video heroes, and with YT now being more popular than TV, it's exposing way more people than the hunting shows on TV. Don't get me started about the Facebook junkies that are dying to post a pic of a bird before it's even done flopping, for recognition. I've gotten where I tell two people if I kill a bird, and that's just if they ask. My 2 cents worth
People should know there are ways to extract precise location information from your smartphone photos. I would highly suggest everybody disable your geotagging functionality, below is a link for how to do that for iPhones.
https://www.techbout.com/turn-off-geotagging-for-photos-iphone-ipad-8738/ (https://www.techbout.com/turn-off-geotagging-for-photos-iphone-ipad-8738/)
Whenever I take friends to a honey hole hunting or fishing spot, besides being sworn to secrecy I make them turn off the geotagging. Many of us will take a bragging photo and send it around, so it's more to prevent that situation where a friend, of a friend, of a friend, happens to receive the picture electronically and can then pinpoint the location.
Quote from: nativeks on April 11, 2020, 12:13:01 PM
Once upon a time I took a picture with a limit of ducks at a gate that is well known but the marsh was dry due to drought. Next morning I drove by to check and 7 trucks in that parking lot.
This makes me happy
It's public land not public knowledge. I get so tired of the," not looking for your honey hole" threads and PM wanting help. Just get off your azz and go. That's what I have done over the years.
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Quote from: fallhnt on April 11, 2020, 02:40:32 PM
It's public land not public knowledge. I get so tired of the," not looking for your honey hole" threads and PM wanting help. Just get off your azz and go. That's what I have done over the years.
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Agree with that. Just take me to your private land spots and leases and get it over with.
What has always baffled me is when people talk about the importance of recruiting new hunters. Yet when those new hunters show up to their public land spot they hate it. Never understood that..
No need to complain about the YouTube heroes. Even without them the public land nightmare will only get worse and worse every year. More people every year, less land each year to hunt. More people sharing a smaller space...it's that simple. Turkey hunting in Florida public land is already more like a dove shoot from what I hear.
And you have the THP nimrods that show the exact walk in road # they were hunting. This is terrible for local hunters.
Quote from: buzzardroost on April 11, 2020, 03:58:50 PM
And you have the THP nimrods that show the exact walk in road # they were hunting. This is terrible for local hunters.
I need to check that out. I like other guys doing the scouting for me. Im only kidding.
No good deed goes unpunished. I am glad I am close to the happy hunting ground. I don't how long I can stand any more of this rock star drivel. They have ruined a once honorable sport.
Yup -not good I've seen a 3 fold increase of trucks at a place I would stop hunting after I took a bird because it is a special place . Now it's overrun from the cool video projects . Ya only seeing what they want you to see . Anything to get that bird on video . Fug the locals .
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Quote from: briton on April 11, 2020, 12:17:35 PM
Yea, it's getting ridiculous. All the YouTube videos have started a public land trend. It seems people just want recognition/fame for killing tons of gobblers. Mainstream hunting had already made a mockery out of turkey hunting but this "new public land /YouTube recognition junkies craze" is just getting started and will only get busier. With business incentives thru paid advertising on YT, it rewards the video heroes, and with YT now being more popular than TV, it's exposing way more people than the hunting shows on TV. Don't get me started about the Facebook junkies that are dying to post a pic of a bird before it's even done flopping, for recognition. I've gotten where I tell two people if I kill a bird, and that's just if they ask. My 2 cents worth
:icon_thumright: :icon_thumright:
Well put and, in my opinion, a troubling trend. I'm sure some of it is well-intended as a means to help others—that's the way it's presented anyway— but some is likely ego-driven. I think a few want to be the hunting equivalent of the Duck Commander.
Quote from: camotoe on April 11, 2020, 05:27:07 PM
Yup -not good I've seen a 3 fold increase of trucks at a place I would stop hunting after I took a bird because it is a special place . Now it's overrun from the cool video projects . Ya only seeing what they want you to see . Anything to get that bird on video . Fuc the locals .
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I agree. They are not worried at all about what they do to the locals. I had a nice spot also, killed my first bird there and it was a spot I could take my 70 y/o father because the walk was not bad on one part of it. Three years ago I could go to that spot just about any time and a truck not be there. All it took was one topo picture from catman and there were trucks surrounding the spot all season last year. Don't even get me started about that last THP video where they stopped in front of a random house and yelled at a persons dog. I understand messing around with the guys but I really couldn't believe they didn't edit that BS out. How about have some respect for the people in the community your hunting.
Couldn't agree more. And the private land I am fortunate enough to hunt gets pressured hard...a race to get there first, and a lot less room to roam. I have killed birds on public and private land and don't see 'public land' birds as a badge...the turkeys don't know the difference and get pressured on all land, unless someone is fortunate enough to truly have permission on property that is managed well for turkeys with little pressure.
I don't know who to blame but I think the recruiting effort has accomplished its mission and needs to take a break. I think every moron in Mississippi with a shotgun and crow call was on the scene this morning.
I was working a Gobbler this morning and he kept Gobbling after I'd quit calling and wishing he'd shut up. This moron was on a bluff 200 yards thru the woods and across a creek and I mean 200 foot up a bluff a turkey would have to have flown up , non stop crow calling. What was the intention? He was about as located as he could get and walking toward me away from him. This guy has been watching too many YouTube videos. I've also noticed a lot of cars in the woods. Nothing like rolling up to a turkey spot in your Honda Civic.
Ask anyone that hunted Alabama this year how it went? Ol Penhoti decides to let everyone know last year the woods were full of Jakes and how good 2020 would be. And a mental retard could have figured out we're in Alabama he and the THP were at. They gave more than enough clues to the location. I think the guys that post stuff like, "I don't see how anyone could figure it out" are probably still using a flip phone and have dial up internet service lol. It ain't hard, they making it easy, and you better believe people are looking.
Think about it. You've never killed a turkey you spent 300$ on THP,Penhoti t-shirts hats and stickers for your Toyota Camry and have bought into the traveling turkey game. Your hero's are killing turkeys and with 5 min of your time you can find out exactly we're they are hunting. We're you going?
Sure, loose lips sink ships; giving away too much detail on location will not end well for locals or others who have traveled to those locations for many years. They should be way, way more cautious.
But I wouldn't pile a bunch of blame on these utube guys without first considering this year's added pressure likely guys not going to work everyday. Nothing better to do than try hunting turkeys, and go blow your new crow call all day.
Public ground likely getting hammered way harder this year due to the businesses shutting down.
The pressure on my WMA is insane this year. I contribute most of it to everyone being off work but I think there is definitely more people in the woods than a few years ago.
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I've ran into more people on public land this season than I have in the past 5 years. I'm sure some of that is due to covid-19. I'm sure some of it is due to YouTube. I'm also certain that I'm not gonna let it get my panties in a wad, and I'm gonna do my best to kill birds. If anything, all of this pressure has helped me adapt and become a better turkey hunter. Believe that.
Last time I checked, public land is exactly what the name suggests...land for all of the general public to lawfully use. It is just as much yours to hunt as it is mine or a 1st year hunter who drives a Toyota Camry (no matter where they are from). Guys like Catman, THP, etc. are great resources, in my opinion. Not everyone had a family full of hunters or grew up in the woods. These guys are providing great tips to people who want to try the sport but otherwise may not have the means. YouTube videos are free as long as you have access to an internet connection. If you have an issue with crowded public land, put yourself in the financial position to buy your own private ground where you and whoever you permit to hunt with you are the only people you have to worry about. If you already have private ground that suits your needs, stop complaining. Otherwise, do what every other hunter who has dealt with pressured public land has done for years...go into the deep spots, go find new public tracts to hunt, or knock on doors and gain permission on private ground. I live in one of the most sought after whitetail areas in the nation and guys still find private land to hunt even with the influx of guys from other areas. Greet your fellow hunters, especially newbies, with open arms.
Good points from many. The full story lies somewhere in the middle. I too have seen a ton of pressure and I am sure not going to rag on THP as they show respect to other hunters, drive past where they intended to hunt if people are there, don't act like idiots when they kill one and most importantly, are not hunting butterball factories like so many other hunting shows do. Any time you have a video camera and the internet there is danger of info getting out there. I don't post kills on Facebook, but when I post here or on the duck site where I know a lot of folks, you dang sure can't tell where I am located. It is a fine line between sharing the fun of turkey hunting and giving cyberscouters free info. Err on the side of caution is my mantra, while still be welcoming to new hunters.
I have been hunting turkeys since 1973 and I think it is time to quit. I blame Utube and all of the wannabe rock stars, the commercial actors and those who cater to them. As the old man who so graciously got me started said, keep your mouth shut because there isn't enough room for everybody. For those who can't find a quality hunt, repeat these words, "We have met the enemy, and it is us."
Quote from: Bearcat1997 on April 11, 2020, 07:46:21 PM
Last time I checked, public land is exactly what the name suggests...land for all of the general public to lawfully use. It is just as much yours to hunt as it is mine or a 1st year hunter who drives a Toyota Camry (no matter where they are from). Guys like Catman, THP, etc. are great resources, in my opinion. Not everyone had a family full of hunters or grew up in the woods. These guys are providing great tips to people who want to try the sport but otherwise may not have the means. YouTube videos are free as long as you have access to an internet connection. If you have an issue with crowded public land, put yourself in the financial position to buy your own private ground where you and whoever you permit to hunt with you are the only people you have to worry about. If you already have private ground that suits your needs, stop complaining. Otherwise, do what every other hunter who has dealt with pressured public land has done for years...go into the deep spots, go find new public tracts to hunt, or knock on doors and gain permission on private ground. I live in one of the most sought after whitetail areas in the and guys still find private land to hunt even with the influx of guys from other areas. Greet your fellow hunters, especially newbies, with open arms.
What color Camry you running Bro? Lol
Quote from: silvestris on April 11, 2020, 08:31:12 PM
I have been hunting turkeys since 1973 and I think it is time to quit. I blame Utube and all of the wannabe rock stars, the commercial actors and those who cater to them. As the old man who so graciously got me started said, keep your mouth shut because there isn't enough room for everybody. For those who can't find a quality hunt, repeat these words, "We have met the enemy, and it is us."
I agree with you 100 percent. I have been turkey hunting since 1979 and I learned from hard bumps and nocks. When you ran across a turkey hunter in those days , 99 percent of the time it was an old man. You could roam public land for a week without seeing another hunter. As far as recruiting new hunters yada yada yada , we have plenty of them now and there is only so much land to hunt. Its not like deer hunting where you can be a 100 yards apart and still kill deer. It takes alot more land to chase a turkey without messing someone up or getting messed up.
Ya again...it's public land not public knowledge. If a hunter is too lazy to put boots on the ground and earn it. Stay home
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Lazy cyberscouter types are without a doubt the single worst thing to plague hunting these days , they are so obnoxious I've seen the DEMAND area specifics , waterfowl hunting is thick with them
Name dropping specific areas is low brow , the only people doing it are totally clueless to the consequences , I've seen vast areas completely wiped out and trashed by waves of cyber scouters
The Internet is not the only place this occurs, clueless "editors" continually "out" areas in publications for waterfowl too
Cyberscouters are like garbage bears
Quote from: Old Gobbler on April 11, 2020, 08:52:42 PM
Lazy cyberscouter types are without a doubt the single worst thing to plague hunting these days , they are so obnoxious I've seen the DEMAND area specifics , waterfowl hunting is thick with them
Name dropping specific areas is low brow , the only people doing it are totally clueless to the consequences , I've seen vast areas completely wiped out and trashed by waves of cyber scouters
The Internet is not the only place this occurs, clueless "editors" continually "out" areas in publications for waterfowl too
Cyberscouters are like garbage bears
I think there is room to scout online as far as studying topo maps and satellite photo's, but you need to put boots to the ground as well if you are able. I honestly wonder if many of these people that are dropping names of area's know what they are doing and planting false information in order to protect their spots in their minds.
Yeah they all should be more careful in my opinion. THP kinda rubbed me wrong last year while hunting with my son in Wisconsin. We parked at a gate as we were the only vehicle there and walked in to listen. We got on a turkey only to have him shut up. We walked back to the truck and the long haired guys gold dodge is parked right beside my truck. I hear them on their videos talking about not doing that to people. It's public land, but don't say it if you don't practice it. Sorry for the rant.
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THP definitely should not showed the gate number for 200k hunters to see. If they did that where I hunt, I'd be upset. They could probably stand to be a little more careful and show less land marks too. However, they seem to behave and carry themselves respectfully towards other hunters, most of the time. I think that this whole fad will die out in about another decade. I video some of my hunts, but I sure don't put anything up on the internet in which people will recognize. I work hard for those spots! As for quitting the sport, I guess I just don't know how bad I have it. I never had the opportunity to have a WMA to myself growing up. It's always been "the public land race." You gotta work harder, spend more time, and get your rear end out the the spot FIRST. It can be frustrating at times, but dang if it doesn't feel good to be walking out of a crowded management area 7:07am on a Saturday carrying a bird that you roosted, and froze your tail off for in the predawn hours to make sure you had the spot. It's even more rewarding when you finally do find an unpressured area with lots of birds. If it doesn't excited me to the point where I am not willing to work hard for it, then I don't want to do it anymore.
Quote from: Old Gobbler on April 11, 2020, 08:52:42 PM
Cyberscouters are like garbage bears
This is 100% accurate. People tend to be lazy and morally flexible
Soooo , anyone want to buy these new Pinhoti underwear I just bought ? There dipped in bottomland btw ????
A lot of it is the new age of turkey hunting , back in the old days , we didn't have cell phones with these maps apps etc and we all didn't have a nice car or truck to drive , most of the time we buddy up to even to go hunting. Most everyone in the county you new and we didn't have all these no hunting signs , almost everyone would let you hunt. Now it's public and private ground. With this public ground youtube hunting it's drop pin on the map. It's the changing of the times, just like we mostly don't hunt like the old pioneers ..
I was a little surprised to see THP show that gate number, and the dog thing, I thought I had missed something. That certainly was rude to both the dog and the owners of the dog.
For the most part I enjoy these shows and wouldn't have interest in following anybody else, youtube phenom or no. I figure if they've been in there, they've either killed already or at least stirred things up.
That said, I'd be aggravated as hell if somebody messed up my hunting, public or private!
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The ICING on the CAKE.
I was on facebook today, and a guy on a local turkey hunting page decided to tell the world that due to covid 19, his basecall season was cancelled and he for once had time to turkey hunt "which he had never done before".....I couldn't imagine being so bored, but anyway...he made a post about having birds to hunt and just not being able to kill one and was looking for help anyway he could get it. Multiple people sincerely replied "just watch youtube" "watch the pinhoti project or THP". I like the channels personally....but is this what its truly come to......?
Once again, the monster of social media and youtube and "look at me" has reared its ugly head. It's this simple:
1. Everyone wants to be the next youtube star, because I mean if you're not getting great pictures or self filming, what are you doing man?
2. "Keeping up with the Jones" comes into play. Everyone does swing now and hunts multiple states right? If you don't your not a serious turkey hunter. (That's what were led to believe)
I'm not saying this is the case with everyone by any means. Lot's of low key, discreet traveling turkey hunters are out there, and guys like me that are content hunting the home state and maybe some neighboring states. But lots are all about killing their next bird to post on Instagram, and will use any means necessary to do so.
I'm guessing there is monetary value in getting lots of YouTube followers which leads to sponsors??? I always wondered how these young guys, some with young families could take three months off of work to chase turkeys all over the country. Imagine the cost, let alone the time. I guess I'm a little jealous that I never thought of a way to do it, lol. Besides, I'm way too secretive because here in Pa. there's no stone left unturned so as it is.
Just on this thread there's guys that have actually had interactions with these hero's and it's not what they portray on YouTube. Saying you don't park next to people and doing it are two different things. Shooting bearded hens etc. I think if you saw what really goes on or what they really feel about other hunters beating them to their spot you'd have another opinion. You are watching the edited version of what they want you to see.
Quote from: Howie g on April 11, 2020, 10:47:48 PM
Soooo , anyone want to buy these new Pinhoti underwear I just bought ? There dipped in bottomland btw ????
:TooFunny: That pretty much sums it all up.
Fellas it is not just turkey hunting, It is also Elk hunting. The Born and raised crew and their 5 state in 50 days of chasing elk on public land, has everyone thinking if they show up blow a cow call and bugle all day they will kill a bull. Lots and lots of wanna be hunters in places where there was no one for 20 years.
I've hunted around all of the youtubers...... I can say this. They have about ruined some my favorite places in the world to hunt turkeys. Pimping out a public resource for profit.......and on top of that's its sacred turkey hunting. Loose lips sink ships. Leave the cameras at home......play the game for yourself - not for profit. We've seen duck hunting all but ruined by social media......don't think for a second turkey hunting won't go the same way especially when these dudes are trying to make hunting public land trendy/cool. As if it wasnt crowded before.
People have been complaining about their public land woes for years. Guess YouTube is the new scapegoat now.
Quote from: simpzenith on April 12, 2020, 10:26:18 AM
People have been complaining about their public land woes for years. Guess YouTube is the new scapegoat now.
This is true.
I started filming when I started hunting and it's always been a hobby that I enjoy and I've been fortunate to be able to make a small business out of it. There's no big money in it. I've never said where I hunt in a video other than the state, and in recent years I've had to be increasingly more discreet about everything due to cyber scouters with loose lips. I also hunt private land and sometimes don't even say whether I'm hunting private or public.
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Quote from: simpzenith on April 12, 2020, 10:26:18 AM
People have been complaining about their public land woes for years. Guess YouTube is the new scapegoat now.
Totally agree , Now lets see some video's without the cell phone apps and drop a pin ..
Catman and Shane are the only 2 I can watch and I would be willing to share my spots with either of them and not be worried that they would tell anybody else where they were. Catman is knocking it out of the park with that homemade wing bone call!!!!!
Quote from: simpzenith on April 12, 2020, 10:26:18 AM
People have been complaining about their public land woes for years. Guess YouTube is the new scapegoat now.
I have no woes. My season has been excellent so far. There's a big difference in helping new hunters and showing thousands of people exact spots and road names. There's a reason the YouTubers get a lot more candid about what they show when they are close to their home area. Especially on the whitetail spots. Every spot they hunt some local guy knows about. As of right now 48k people have seen the road name THP posted in their last video. All I'm asking for is a little respect for the locals.
Some of the YouTube heroes evidently are tone-deaf. If they won't or can't understand, it's best not to subscribe to their channels or give them clicks.
Back in the day it was the gas station coffee shop or the local diner.......people always asking what your hearing. You sure as heck kept it under your hat... if you didn't you'd have company. it's like 1 + 1 = 2. Now we have guys actually filming it and putting it on the internet ........ and then acting like it doesn't increase crowding. Anybody that's been around the block in this sport and not just starting to ride the fad knows it's gonna increase pressure and competition. We've seen it first hand in the Arkansas public duck wood. Wether your killing turkeys, making money, or nailing best looking girl in town you keep your mouth shut if you want it to continue. loose lips sink ships. :gobble:
Quote from: Spurs Up on April 12, 2020, 11:14:39 AM
Some of the YouTube heroes evidently are tone-deaf. If they won't or can't understand, it's best not to subscribe to their channels or give them clicks.
X2
Just to see how long it take I skimmed thru the THP video mentioned and in a couple minutes I found the road filmed, I recognized the town also. They either don't care or too dumb to comprehend what's being said.
Quote from: silvestris on April 11, 2020, 08:31:12 PM
I have been hunting turkeys since 1973 and I think it is time to quit. I blame Utube and all of the wannabe rock stars, the commercial actors and those who cater to them. As the old man who so graciously got me started said, keep your mouth shut because there isn't enough room for everybody. For those who can't find a quality hunt, repeat these words, "We have met the enemy, and it is us."
Seems rather extreme.
Quote from: deadbuck on April 12, 2020, 10:43:20 AM
Catman and Shane are the only 2 I can watch and I would be willing to share my spots with either of them and not be worried that they would tell anybody else where they were.
Agree about Shane and Catman, as well as both Dave and the THP bunch,...and a couple of others that have shown up recently. There has been a lapse of good judgement a time or two with a couple of them, but overall, they are class acts.
Perhaps, since it is Easter, I will quote: "Let those that have not sinned cast the first stone." I suspect very few stones could be cast by most folks around here.
I don't know. There has been more pressure no doubt but it was popular last year and I showed up at a big property in Indiana that's slammed opening weekend. I got there after work at 1pm. Not a car was in the parking lot and I killed my turkey 45 min later, 100 yards from my truck. Don't get me wrong there has been more pressure but I think this year its more from the virus and People being off or looking for stuff to do. I noticed our state parks and lake is a lot busier this year than years past. I expect the same during turkey season. Yeah it sucks dealing with more pressure but We will see but I just plan on making the most of it and adjusting when I have too. What I notice and maybe not this year because things like baseball aren't happening but after the first weekend the pressure dies off here. It may be different this year but we'll see.
Might as well throw my 2 cents in - sorry for the Essay.
I've been hunting for 21 of my 25 years. In that time I was taught virtually nothing and was expected to pick up knowledge strictly through observation and trying to pick out the kernels of knowledge from all the BS-ing in camps or garages. Not an easy thing to do for a a dumb teenager.
I was consistently the only one in my group of friends who hunted, both in middle/high school and in university. I had to fight hard to personally portray hunting as something that was more than ignorant, overweight guys killing animals to show off how manly or tough they were.
If I had listened to the ethics I was raised around, I would have turned out to be a poacher of the worst kind. My hunting mentors admired 700 yard shots on bedded elk and I've heard them say more than once "I just like killing sh*t" and teasing me for days about notching my tag on a bird that is to them a limitless resource that we couldn't wipe out if we tried. These are people who lived to see them reintroduced to Canada after they were hunted to local extinction generations ago.
No doubt everyone here has bent the rules to some degree in their hunting. I'm not blameless in that respect.
However, when I found hunters like Rinella and Warren on YouTube it was like finding the Holy of Holies. They were hunters I could show my city friends without being detrimental to my own ideas of conservation and sportsmanship. These were well-spoken ambassadors to the sport who actually took the time to explain the minutiae of hunting that I would have had to pick up over years of blundering even with growing up with hunting. It's responsible and nuanced media that appeals to people of my generation who want a more introspective and responsible approach to the outdoors. I've seen more people my age go from urban upbringings to excellent and enthusiastic hunters through YouTube and Netflix than any other factor. I see social media produce hunters, and my home area produce poachers who only care about bragging rights.
I'll drive a Honda Civic, live in a city and work a white collar job to feed my family. But that doesn't make me any less entitled to hunt public land than the guy who works a trade 10 minutes away or someone who just likes to hike, because it is land for public use and I won't be able to hunt the fields I did with my father in a few years because I'll be 900km away from home.
I don't know what it's like to grow up the States where hunting is much more common and public land is crowded thanks to idiots bleating for imaginary internet points. But I do know that if we don't get new people into the sport, the anti hunting crowd will find it very easy to make us a thing of the past once the Boomer generation has gone to rest and we no longer have the numbers to resist at the ballot box or lobby for ourselves as a benefit for the outdoors.
Quote from: Loyalist84 on April 12, 2020, 02:13:10 PM
Might as well throw my 2 cents in - sorry for the Essay.
I've been hunting for 21 of my 25 years. In that time I was taught virtually nothing and was expected to pick up knowledge strictly through observation and trying to pick out the kernels of knowledge from all the BS-ing in camps or garages. Not an easy thing to do for a a dumb teenager.
I was consistently the only one in my group of friends who hunted, both in middle/high school and in university. I had to fight hard to personally portray hunting as something that was more than ignorant, overweight guys killing animals to show off how manly or tough they were.
If I had listened to the ethics I was raised around, I would have turned out to be a poacher of the worst kind. My hunting mentors admired 700 yard shots on bedded elk and I've heard them say more than once "I just like killing sh*t" and teasing me for days about notching my tag on a bird that is to them a limitless resource that we couldn't wipe out if we tried. These are people who lived to see them reintroduced to Canada after they were hunted to local extinction generations ago.
No doubt everyone here has bent the rules to some degree in their hunting. I'm not blameless in that respect.
However, when I found hunters like Rinella and Warren on YouTube it was like finding the Holy of Holies. They were hunters I could show my city friends without being detrimental to my own ideas of conservation and sportsmanship. These were well-spoken ambassadors to the sport who actually took the time to explain the minutiae of hunting that I would have had to pick up over years of blundering even with growing up with hunting. It's responsible and nuanced media that appeals to people of my generation who want a more introspective and responsible approach to the outdoors. I've seen more people my age go from urban upbringings to excellent and enthusiastic hunters through YouTube and Netflix than any other factor. I see social media produce hunters, and my home area produce poachers who only care about bragging rights.
I'll drive a Honda Civic, live in a city and work a white collar job to feed my family. But that doesn't make me any less entitled to hunt public land than the guy who works a trade 10 minutes away or someone who just likes to hike, because it is land for public use and I won't be able to hunt the fields I did with my father in a few years because I'll be 900km away from home.
I don't know what it's like to grow up the States where hunting is much more common and public land is crowded thanks to idiots bleating for imaginary internet points. But I do know that if we don't get new people into the sport, the anti hunting crowd will find it very easy to make us a thing of the past once the Boomer generation has gone to rest and we no longer have the numbers to resist at the ballot box or lobby for ourselves as a benefit for the outdoors.
That's nice but I don't see how filming a public land access trail number or intentionally filming landmarks and towns is in anyway helping city kids become responsible hunters. It will however make it easy for lazy wannabes to show up to said locations and ruin the area for the locals. The anti hunters will get us if we don't recruit new hunters is a pile of crap I been listening to my whole life.
It's the internet, any time someone posts something, along will come others to shame or complain about it.
In other words, haters gonna hate.
I enjoy watching THP, Catman, Shane and Dave. Im in Mid TN and sure, the pressure has picked up a bit, but a little walking or tweak the schedule to hunt mid week and there's plenty of space.
LaLongbeard - You're right, I don't see a point in any of the location advertising either - the closest I would personally get is mentioning a specific national forest or region. I won't comment on the wannabes because I have no experience with them. I will say the situation is different in Canada, because we have lost grizzly hunting in this country and only recently brought back a full spring bear season in my home province - our hunting privileges are being successfully chipped away at every day up here since our urban-rural divide is much more prevalent than in America.
Quote from: Click on April 12, 2020, 12:28:55 PM
Quote from: silvestris on April 11, 2020, 08:31:12 PM
I have been hunting turkeys since 1973 and I think it is time to quit. I blame Utube and all of the wannabe rock stars, the commercial actors and those who cater to them. As the old man who so graciously got me started said, keep your mouth shut because there isn't enough room for everybody. For those who can't find a quality hunt, repeat these words, "We have met the enemy, and it is us."
Seems rather extreme.
It is extreme, and true.
Some super super super salty people commenting on this post. Almost laughable.
I had a conversation with a hunting buddy about his opener here in VA on public land. He was overrun by hunters. Had a guy near by running the same seven note yelp every two minutes from daylight until he left at 9:45. We say "thats ridiculous" and "how obnoxious". Yes that can really "ruin" a hunt.
But that guy is probably one of those guys on the FB group who posts: "This is my first season turkey hunting any tips appreciated". Yikes! How does one even respond to that? So he gets a ton of small tidbits that don't mean anything without context and goes after it; calling every two minutes cause thats what the guys on the Outdoor Channel do.
How is he supposed to learn? Honestly, the first thing I am going to tell that guy is to go watch THP, Calling all Turkeys and Pinhoti Project. Because their videos teach the ethics, techniques and nuances of the game as well as most mentors would. And good mentors are few and far between, unless all of us are taking several newbies out a season.
I agree that showing specific towns and especially gate numbers crosses a line. But I'd rather have these guys showing the ropes to people who's interest is piqued by hunting than the newbies bumbling around the woods without these "rules" in mind. Cause, again, these guys/gals probably have nobody else to teach them these points.
The world is changing constantly. This trend isn't going to get "better". This is what public land is for. It sucks for the guys (like myself) who see the old honey holes get overrun. But we need these newbies to sustain our sport. We need their license purchases to fund the conservation to see the ecosystems we cherish into the distant future. I'd rather see more hunters than not have these lands to hunt. We just have to adapt to it all.
Have you guys sent THP an email or message voicing your concerns? I'd wager they listen. Yes everyone is a little different on camera, but their base values seem pretty sound (but I've been wrong before). I do have a weakness for seeing the best in folks as much as I can.
Happy hunting, folks!
Royce
Quote from: SpitNDrumN on April 12, 2020, 08:45:34 PM
Some super super super salty people commenting on this post. Almost laughable.
Definitely a lot of salt, but the one good point to be made is to not show landmarks in videos. I talked to Aaron about this for a while when we were hunting in TN last week.
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Good points Loyal. I hunt SK every year and we are very careful to be considerate and respectful in every thing we do while guests in another country. Not being forced to hire a guide is very important to us, we want to free lance and do it ourselves (just what makes it fun for us). It will not be us that votes to make that happen, but the many people we run into and the folks that we gift cleaned birds to every year, whether we hunt their land or not. The locals know us as the guys that have a gator and grits cook every year.
I give pointers to young folks or new folks all the time. I have even shared locations and helped friends and family kill birds. But when someone wants to TAKE my spot and they were too dang lazy to get out of bed early enough, then I have a problem.
Quote from: Squoose on April 12, 2020, 08:58:56 PM
I had a conversation with a hunting buddy about his opener here in VA on public land. He was overrun by hunters. Had a guy near by running the same seven note yelp every two minutes from daylight until he left at 9:45. We say "thats ridiculous" and "how obnoxious". Yes that can really "ruin" a hunt.
But that guy is probably one of those guys on the FB group who posts: "This is my first season turkey hunting any tips appreciated". Yikes! How does one even respond to that? So he gets a ton of small tidbits that don't mean anything without context and goes after it; calling every two minutes cause thats what the guys on the Outdoor Channel do.
How is he supposed to learn? Honestly, the first thing I am going to tell that guy is to go watch THP, Calling all Turkeys and Pinhoti Project. Because their videos teach the ethics, techniques and nuances of the game as well as most mentors would. And good mentors are few and far between, unless all of us are taking several newbies out a season.
I agree that showing specific towns and especially gate numbers crosses a line. But I'd rather have these guys showing the ropes to people who's interest is piqued by hunting than the newbies bumbling around the woods without these "rules" in mind. Cause, again, these guys/gals probably have nobody else to teach them these points.
The world is changing constantly. This trend isn't going to get "better". This is what public land is for. It sucks for the guys (like myself) who see the old honey holes get overrun. But we need these newbies to sustain our sport. We need their license purchases to fund the conservation to see the ecosystems we cherish into the distant future. I'd rather see more hunters than not have these lands to hunt. We just have to adapt to it all.
Have you guys sent THP an email or message voicing your concerns? I'd wager they listen. Yes everyone is a little different on camera, but their base values seem pretty sound (but I've been wrong before). I do have a weakness for seeing the best in folks as much as I can.
Happy hunting, folks!
Royce
Fantastic post, Royce! Well said! Hope to see more from you. You are obviously fairly new here, so....Welcome to OG!
I hunt and fish WV and never post a pic of where I am hunting or trout fishing..crazy world we live in!
Quote from: catman529 on April 12, 2020, 09:00:05 PM
Quote from: SpitNDrumN on April 12, 2020, 08:45:34 PM
Some super super super salty people commenting on this post. Almost laughable.
Definitely a lot of salt, but the one good point to be made is to not show landmarks in videos. I talked to Aaron about this for a while when we were hunting in TN last week.
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While I appreciate the effort and sentiment, you've done the same. Sure, you can chalk it up to a lesson learned, but don't try and come on here and act like you're the role model trying to help others out.
I'm sure this happens with everyone , but in my area of the state we have very little public ground to hunt, but in other areas we have lot more public ground. I will agree with most that public ground is what it is , for everyone to hunt regardless of your style of hunting. I will say Youtube video's are very misleading on turkey hunting for the most part. Lot's of these guys hunt ranches , private game farms etc . It's like the guy saying hey I've got plenty of turkeys so come on over and make a video and while your at it advertise bottle of Sqwincher . OMG...
Quote from: CALLM2U on April 13, 2020, 10:05:52 AM
Quote from: catman529 on April 12, 2020, 09:00:05 PM
Quote from: SpitNDrumN on April 12, 2020, 08:45:34 PM
Some super super super salty people commenting on this post. Almost laughable.
Definitely a lot of salt, but the one good point to be made is to not show landmarks in videos. I talked to Aaron about this for a while when we were hunting in TN last week.
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While I appreciate the effort and sentiment, you've done the same. Sure, you can chalk it up to a lesson learned, but don't try and come on here and act like you're the role model trying to help others out.
Help me understand the need for confrontation?
[/quote]
The anti hunters will get us if we don't recruit new hunters is a pile of crap I been listening to my whole life.
[/quote]
This has been a great topic, a lot has been said and a lot more has to be said from every one. And sorry to have to post this just after someone post about picking on someone else post. So this sentence wasn't intended to pick on someone's view point just to show my view point of view. Back in the ninety I joined a new group of sportsmans of every kind of group to fight agains the anti's. I was the head of the Trappers group and at the front line of the fight in them days. At that time there was a hunters group there that made the comment " It would be a cold day in Hell before anyone try taking my guns away". Times have changed since then and there will come a day when the anti"s will come after any group that isn't well funded. So this fourm is doing a terrific job. It keeps us all together informed as to what is troubling us. I my self haven't had a lot of time to watch a lot of the Utube video's mentioned, but know about the consequences of posting or showing something on the internet. It is there FOREVER and i have used it for that. My first out of state hunt I ever did was to florida in 2009. And for two years before I went, I read anything I could read or find on this one management. So I know what internet stocking is, and if I was going to the State where they show the numbers on the gate, that would have been my starting point also. So dose anyone hear think that the groups filming and mentioned in this post won't be more careful in the future. I willing to bet they will, but will there be someone new making the same mistake, sure there will. And thats where its our duty to call them out on this website so someone talks to them so they don't make the same mistake twice. And life goes on, and hope we ALL get to hunt another year.
The worst thing that happened to public land turkey hunting was Youtubers who wanted to brand themselves through the exploitation of it.
Now those same Youtubers sometimes b$tch on their posts about the pressure. Nothing is sacred anymore and everyone wants to be famous. There's no reason to publicize what state you're in or what part of that state you're in.
I enjoy good turkey hunting and these dipsh!ts are undeniably making it harder to find.
They will be their own undoing at the expense of the welfare of the wild turkey and its populations.
Couldn't agree more. Taking my son hunting earlier this season, found 6 trucks (from 3 different states) hunting next to and crossing boundaries on our lease. Hoot owls all around sounding like a bunch of chickens. Youtube has made all this possible!
"They will be their own undoing", this is what I'm curious to see how they begin to manage. In one way, good for them, they have found a way to make a living doing what they love. Now that they have I think they are kind of trapped. I see some snarky comments on here about Pinhoti. I honestly feel like some of ya'll are jealous when it comes down to it. I have watched all of Daves videos so you can call me a fanboy if you'd like. It's obvious he loves turkey hunting just as much or more than any of us on here. I've never seen him give out any clues about where he hunts. I would say he probably goes out of his way to make sure he's not doing that. He also has showed how he handles run ins with other hunters which hopefully new hunters will learn from. I can't say the same for the other Youtubers mentioned. I know THP posted a vid a couple years ago of a building with the name on it and it was obvious the WMA they were hunting was about an hour from me. I'm kind of glad they didn't have a lot of success on that trip because it was so easy to figure out. I've heard a lot of complaints about some of the others in the past also. Dave seems to really be passionate about his style of turkey hunting and sharing it with others. I'm sure this year he is probably feeling the effect of more people in the woods as a direct result of his videos. I've learned a lot from watching him and hope he continues to share his hunts with us. I agree though naming places, showing signs, that kind of stuff is not helping anybody. I know Western hunters are getting it even worse than us. You could use to go backpack hunting and not see anyone. Now you see more people 5-10 miles in than you do closer to the road sometimes. I'm not sure what the balance is or what the future will hold. I feel like more hunters in the hunting group as a whole is a good thing. Maybe more deer hunters and less turkey guys lol.
Someone get a mop the tears are getting out of hand :toothy12: :TooFunny:
All you guys saying some are butt hurt etc. Go ahead and post up your public ground hot spots. I'm planing my next year's and this fall turkey hunts now since I have nothing better to do.
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and crickets.
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Public land is just that public land. It can be productive. It can be a hassle.
I would say over half of my birds that I have killed in the past 20 years across multiple states and all the birds I killed before 2012 were on public land. Lately, I have secured some really nice private land spots (not forever, they also tend to come and go too) and private land accounts for 60% of my gobblers now. Never felt the need to publish detailed reports (a story or two yes) or you tube videos and never felt the need to commercialize the sport.
I also hunt pheasants, ruffed grouse and occasionally ducks on public land. I those cases my dogs and my scouting allow me to be consistently highly successful ... pressure or not ... turkeys are a little different in that people wondering can scatter working birds or worse I suppose threaten your safety if they decide to sneak you.
It is interesting that there will be a few years were competition is pretty high on a public land spot, than all of a sudden you have the place to yourself for years ... Often it is the season after a tough MN winter that sends those guys packing and they leave for some time.
I have hunted public where I walked out because some gomer hit his gobbler shaker call every 5 minutes for two hours.
Where I grew up (ND) if someone was at a public spot you moved on ... you would not crowd. Seems like if this advise was followed more often ... far less problems would occur.
Quote from: fallhnt on April 13, 2020, 02:20:36 PM
All you guys saying some are butt hurt etc. Go ahead and post up your public ground hot spots. I'm planing my next year's and this fall turkey hunts now since I have nothing better to do.
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Lol look on YouTube!
Quote from: kytrkyhntr on April 13, 2020, 02:58:28 PM
Quote from: fallhnt on April 13, 2020, 02:20:36 PM
All you guys saying some are butt hurt etc. Go ahead and post up your public ground hot spots. I'm planing my next year's and this fall turkey hunts now since I have nothing better to do.
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Lol look on YouTube!
I never do. I guess it's my loss.
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I was being sarcastic, I agree with most this subject. Loose lips sink ships. It's all good though.
I'm guessing most of y'all aren't on many Facebook hunting groups. It's one thing for someone to figure out a spot by recognizing a landmark in a YouTube video. It's another thing when people openly talk about how many birds they've seen heard or killed on XYZ WMA on Facebook. I see it all the time, people freely give away info on Facebook to anyone who asks. Some are trying to help out a fellow hunter, and some are just bragging. Either way, Facebook and social media in general has done a lot more harm than YouTube videos.
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It's been a problem ever since Google Earth came along. You no longer had to put in the time, and huff it in on foot to find the birds and the spots to hunt them. All you had to do was sit your fat behind a computer to find the honey holes.
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Quote from: RutnNStrutn on April 13, 2020, 04:13:11 PM
It's been a problem ever since Google Earth came along. You no longer had to put in the time, and huff it in on foot to find the birds and the spots to hunt them. All you had to do was sit your fat behind a computer to find the honey holes.
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X2 ... AMEN
I just would like to know how they pull off the money side of all that travel. Out of state licenses, gas, convenience store food would add up quick and they don't seem to worry about jobs.
Maybe I am just jealous :TooFunny:
Quote from: LaLongbeard on April 12, 2020, 08:21:08 AM
Just on this thread there's guys that have actually had interactions with these hero's and it's not what they portray on YouTube. Saying you don't park next to people and doing it are two different things. Shooting bearded hens etc. I think if you saw what really goes on or what they really feel about other hunters beating them to their spot you'd have another opinion. You are watching the edited version of what they want you to see.
No doubt!
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Quote from: Sixes on April 13, 2020, 04:19:43 PM
I just would like to know how they pull off the money side of all that travel. Out of state licenses, gas, convenience store food would add up quick and they don't seem to worry about jobs.
Maybe I am just jealous :TooFunny:
I have been watching THP videos on youtube for a couple years now. I enjoy watching and consider it entertainment. Nothing more nothing less. Do I wish I had their time and freedoms to hunt pretty much year round? Yes I do. Do I envy their lifestyle? No I dont.
If you pay attention to how they live, the clothes they wear, and the gear they use, it can be seen they are not rich. I'm sure they can get by and hunt like they do solely on their sponsors and youtube payments. However by not working a normal job they sacrifice a nice home, fancy vehicle, good retirement and the joys of having kids and a family.
All of us can be angry at them for exposing our favorite hunting areas but few of us have the balls to go out and pursue our dreams. I do believe THP, catman, and Dave Owens are pursuing their dreams. For that very reason I will continue to watch their shows.
Quote from: RutnNStrutn on April 13, 2020, 04:13:11 PM
It's been a problem ever since Google Earth came along. You no longer had to put in the time, and huff it in on foot to find the birds and the spots to hunt them. All you had to do was sit your fat behind a computer to find the honey holes.
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Without a doubt technology has changed how people hunt (or do most things in life). But to quote the Borg, "Resistance is futile."
I'm part of the generation that grew up learning from encyclopedias and then the internet was born while I was in high school. So my generation is the only ones in history that have lived in both worlds. We can relate to the generations on both sides of us. What I can tell you for sure though, is that the world isn't going back.
Technology advancements have always been a part of life and hunting is no different. Just like the folks who fought against compound bows because it was "ruining hunting", they slowly were overcome. If you don't like how tv shows and technology is changing hunting, you've got some frustrating days ahead.
Quote from: catman529 on April 13, 2020, 03:36:54 PM
I'm guessing most of y'all aren't on many Facebook hunting groups. It's one thing for someone to figure out a spot by recognizing a landmark in a YouTube video. It's another thing when people openly talk about how many birds they've seen heard or killed on XYZ WMA on Facebook. I see it all the time, people freely give away info on Facebook to anyone who asks. Some are trying to help out a fellow hunter, and some are just bragging. Either way, Facebook and social media in general has done a lot more harm than YouTube videos.
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Internet scouting has been around for a long time now. Forums (like this one, but not necessarily this one) were the start of sharing TMI.
I would tend to disagree just a bit on the facebook vs. youtube analysis. Many facebook groups are private or semi-private and generally speaking you can hide much of your information and day to day posts from general stalkers (non friends or non memebers). You tube is much more open to the general public.
I had not heard of most of these public hunting land guys including yourself until this thread. All though I may have watched a video or two that just popped up in some sequential loading.
I did notice that there is one public land turkey hunter that recently retreated dramatically on facebook. At least on what one can see without being a friend or subscriber.
There is also plenty of videos sent out by email that probably say too much too.
Interestingly my 18 year old son does not watch a single hunting video on you tube and does not interact with any hunting group in instagram. Should be noted that facebook is becoming a 30 year old - great grandma aged social media. "Kids" under 25 generally do not spend much if any time on facebook.
I asked him once and he said why would I want to watch someone else kill a bird when we have so much good times on our own. The kid has killed quite a few gobblers, good fisherman and an eagle scout.
My older son has did not really turkey hunt because he was a multi-sport athlete including being a scratch golfer, but he has killed a LOT of waterfowl and upland birds. Same thing ... zero interest in watching youtube videos of hunting or being a member of some FB club (and he his a pretty big FB user). Good outdoorsman if he ain't on some damn fairway somewhere.
Quote from: CALLM2U on April 13, 2020, 04:49:17 PM
Quote from: RutnNStrutn on April 13, 2020, 04:13:11 PM
It's been a problem ever since Google Earth came along. You no longer had to put in the time, and huff it in on foot to find the birds and the spots to hunt them. All you had to do was sit your fat behind a computer to find the honey holes.
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Without a doubt technology has changed how people hunt (or do most things in life). But to quote the Borg, "Resistance is futile."
I'm part of the generation that grew up learning from encyclopedias and then the internet was born while I was in high school. So my generation is the only ones in history that have lived in both worlds. We can relate to the generations on both sides of us. What I can tell you for sure though, is that the world isn't going back.
Technology advancements have always been a part of life and hunting is no different. Just like the folks who fought against compound bows because it was "ruining hunting", they slowly were overcome. If you don't like how tv shows and technology is changing hunting, you've got some frustrating days ahead.
Without a doubt. Like it or not, cyberscouting is here to stay.
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:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Quote from: fallhnt on April 13, 2020, 02:20:36 PM
All you guys saying some are butt hurt etc. Go ahead and post up your public ground hot spots. I'm planing my next year's and this fall turkey hunts now since I have nothing better to do.
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Lol. Exactly if a few hundred more people won't matter post em up.
Quote from: Sixes on April 13, 2020, 04:19:43 PM
I just would like to know how they pull off the money side of all that travel. Out of state licenses, gas, convenience store food would add up quick and they don't seem to worry about jobs.
Non of this is new. Non of these hero's invented the traveling turkey hunting. Dave Owens wasn't the first to kill the US slam. People like Jim Spencer and several other Turkey writers have written multiple magazine articles and books on Turkey hunting etc. Never once did they mention a specific place. And these guys have been at the traveling turkey thing for decades before YouTube or any projects or tours.
I take off the entire Turkey season every spring and hunt multiple states without having to be broke wear a girls turkey vest or panhandle for handouts. I know there are several other hunters on this forum that also hunt most everyday of the season. For some reason a bunch of people have got it in their head that this is new, I guess until you put it on YouTube they'll never find it. Someone could write a book titled " public land hunting hot spots in every state" and unless someone read it to them or made a podcast of someone reading it to them they'd never know lol.
Quote from: idratherb on April 13, 2020, 07:01:54 PM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Synopsis.....Public land hunters believe others in our ranks need to stop advertising public land hunting areas for personal gain,heroics etc. If you hunt public land most feel you should be respectful and keep all intel private. All agree to help others is ok but the hunter requesting assistance needs to do footwork before asking.
I give this synopsis two thumbs up.
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Quote from: brittman on April 13, 2020, 05:27:03 PM
Quote from: catman529 on April 13, 2020, 03:36:54 PM
I'm guessing most of y'all aren't on many Facebook hunting groups. It's one thing for someone to figure out a spot by recognizing a landmark in a YouTube video. It's another thing when people openly talk about how many birds they've seen heard or killed on XYZ WMA on Facebook. I see it all the time, people freely give away info on Facebook to anyone who asks. Some are trying to help out a fellow hunter, and some are just bragging. Either way, Facebook and social media in general has done a lot more harm than YouTube videos.
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Internet scouting has been around for a long time now. Forums (like this one, but not necessarily this one) were the start of sharing TMI.
I would tend to disagree just a bit on the facebook vs. youtube analysis. Many facebook groups are private or semi-private and generally speaking you can hide much of your information and day to day posts from general stalkers (non friends or non memebers). You tube is much more open to the general public.
I had not heard of most of these public hunting land guys including yourself until this thread. All though I may have watched a video or two that just popped up in some sequential loading.
I did notice that there is one public land turkey hunter that recently retreated dramatically on facebook. At least on what one can see without being a friend or subscriber.
There is also plenty of videos sent out by email that probably say too much too.
Catman nailed this one.
The FB groups in VA right now are on fire with folks asking for hunting spots. "Anybody hunt WMA X this weekend? Hear anything there?", "Can someone point me in the direction of turkeys I don't want your honey hole just a chance at some birds". And people answer them honestly. These groups are closed/private, yes, but all it takes to get in is answering a question that says you aren't a robot.
I will tell you I'm a pretty darn good cyberscouter. I can look at pictures and read a post that seems very benign and figure out where it is a good amount of the time. Instagram is a good one for doing this. So are forums. FB folks usually say way too much and all but tell you where they were. Honestly, I haven't used this information to "steal spots" or really influence where I hunt, but the point is that it isn't difficult. 0
I know some of you will give me hell/not believe me there. My point is this: If you are posting anything about a hunt you went on on any platform, you are putting your spots in jeopardy. There are guys who know what truck you drive and know you kill a lot of turkeys, so when they see you parked at a national forest gate you can bet they will be back. There are guys who can pick out from a little detail in a short synopsis of the hunt you just posted on Old Gobbler Forum and can figure out where you were because they just so happen to have been there, too, but didn't realize it was so good! If people figure out you're a good hunter you can bet you're being watched by those "less fortunate" than you.
And there are guys who watch youtube and can pick out what lake Catman and the THP crew were just hunting in TN. And there are guys who will tell you exactly what you want to know on Facebook.
As was said before, this is the new face of hunting. The more communication we have with people the more information gets out. Thats just how communication works. We can piss and moan about it here till the cows come home but that isn't changing anything. With the rate at which properties are fragmenting and being leased, you can bet that the public land will continue to see more and more hunters. That is as much a product of the times as is of social media.
Catman said he talked to Aaron about showing landmarks. I'm sure they have talked about this very post we are almost on page 8 of right now. Yes showing the gate number might have been wrong, but people can figure out what town they were in in any video they post. You think these guys are exploiting public land for their gain? It was already said that the THP guys are barely scraping by to fund their endeavor. And they are the only ones doing it for a living, and a meager one, at that. Catman and Dave Owens have real jobs. These guys have figured out a way to fund their passion with their passion. Yep, I'm jealous, too.
You want to see people exploiting our resource for their own gain? Watch Outdoor Channel. Then, when you get tired of macho egos, product placement, "kill at all cost" and the lack of reality in their hunts, flip over to youtube and catch some Pinhoti, THP, Calling All Turkeys and Catman. Breathe in that fresh air, blow out a sigh of relief and thank them for producing videos we can all relate to. That serve as GOOD examples, for anyone who might stumble upon them, of what it is really like to be an outdoorsman/woman. That prove that we, as a culture, are not the disrespectful, blood thirsty lunatics that we are made out to be by Hollywood or your local humane society. These guys are the real embassadors of our sport.
We can pick apart their work. Thats fine. What I think is cool is that they have become so "normal" in our society now that we are starting to take them for granted. If, after several years of content, all they have to worry about is showing a landmark or two in their videos, they're doing something right.
Best,
Royce
Quote from: GobbleNut on April 13, 2020, 08:42:31 AM
Quote from: Squoose on April 12, 2020, 08:58:56 PM
I had a conversation with a hunting buddy about his opener here in VA on public land. He was overrun by hunters. Had a guy near by running the same seven note yelp every two minutes from daylight until he left at 9:45. We say "thats ridiculous" and "how obnoxious". Yes that can really "ruin" a hunt.
But that guy is probably one of those guys on the FB group who posts: "This is my first season turkey hunting any tips appreciated". Yikes! How does one even respond to that? So he gets a ton of small tidbits that don't mean anything without context and goes after it; calling every two minutes cause thats what the guys on the Outdoor Channel do.
How is he supposed to learn? Honestly, the first thing I am going to tell that guy is to go watch THP, Calling all Turkeys and Pinhoti Project. Because their videos teach the ethics, techniques and nuances of the game as well as most mentors would. And good mentors are few and far between, unless all of us are taking several newbies out a season.
I agree that showing specific towns and especially gate numbers crosses a line. But I'd rather have these guys showing the ropes to people who's interest is piqued by hunting than the newbies bumbling around the woods without these "rules" in mind. Cause, again, these guys/gals probably have nobody else to teach them these points.
The world is changing constantly. This trend isn't going to get "better". This is what public land is for. It sucks for the guys (like myself) who see the old honey holes get overrun. But we need these newbies to sustain our sport. We need their license purchases to fund the conservation to see the ecosystems we cherish into the distant future. I'd rather see more hunters than not have these lands to hunt. We just have to adapt to it all.
Have you guys sent THP an email or message voicing your concerns? I'd wager they listen. Yes everyone is a little different on camera, but their base values seem pretty sound (but I've been wrong before). I do have a weakness for seeing the best in folks as much as I can.
Happy hunting, folks!
Royce
Fantastic post, Royce! Well said! Hope to see more from you. You are obviously fairly new here, so....Welcome to OG!
Thanks, Gobblenut! I've been lurking for several years, now, and have posted a couple things here and there. This is, without question, one of the best forums left on the interwebs. Glad I can be a part of it and consort with folks like yourself!
Quote from: Squoose on April 13, 2020, 08:33:13 PM
Quote from: brittman on April 13, 2020, 05:27:03 PM
Quote from: catman529 on April 13, 2020, 03:36:54 PM
I'm guessing most of y'all aren't on many Facebook hunting groups. It's one thing for someone to figure out a spot by recognizing a landmark in a YouTube video. It's another thing when people openly talk about how many birds they've seen heard or killed on XYZ WMA on Facebook. I see it all the time, people freely give away info on Facebook to anyone who asks. Some are trying to help out a fellow hunter, and some are just bragging. Either way, Facebook and social media in general has done a lot more harm than YouTube videos.
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Internet scouting has been around for a long time now. Forums (like this one, but not necessarily this one) were the start of sharing TMI.
I would tend to disagree just a bit on the facebook vs. youtube analysis. Many facebook groups are private or semi-private and generally speaking you can hide much of your information and day to day posts from general stalkers (non friends or non memebers). You tube is much more open to the general public.
I had not heard of most of these public hunting land guys including yourself until this thread. All though I may have watched a video or two that just popped up in some sequential loading.
I did notice that there is one public land turkey hunter that recently retreated dramatically on facebook. At least on what one can see without being a friend or subscriber.
There is also plenty of videos sent out by email that probably say too much too.
Catman nailed this one.
The FB groups in VA right now are on fire with folks asking for hunting spots. "Anybody hunt WMA X this weekend? Hear anything there?", "Can someone point me in the direction of turkeys I don't want your honey hole just a chance at some birds". And people answer them honestly. These groups are closed/private, yes, but all it takes to get in is answering a question that says you aren't a robot.
I will tell you I'm a pretty darn good cyberscouter. I can look at pictures and read a post that seems very benign and figure out where it is a good amount of the time. Instagram is a good one for doing this. So are forums. FB folks usually say way too much and all but tell you where they were. Honestly, I haven't used this information to "steal spots" or really influence where I hunt, but the point is that it isn't difficult. 0
I know some of you will give me hell/not believe me there. My point is this: If you are posting anything about a hunt you went on on any platform, you are putting your spots in jeopardy. There are guys who know what truck you drive and know you kill a lot of turkeys, so when they see you parked at a national forest gate you can bet they will be back. There are guys who can pick out from a little detail in a short synopsis of the hunt you just posted on Old Gobbler Forum and can figure out where you were because they just so happen to have been there, too, but didn't realize it was so good! If people figure out you're a good hunter you can bet you're being watched by those "less fortunate" than you.
And there are guys who watch youtube and can pick out what lake Catman and the THP crew were just hunting in TN. And there are guys who will tell you exactly what you want to know on Facebook.
As was said before, this is the new face of hunting. The more communication we have with people the more information gets out. Thats just how communication works. We can piss and moan about it here till the cows come home but that isn't changing anything. With the rate at which properties are fragmenting and being leased, you can bet that the public land will continue to see more and more hunters. That is as much a product of the times as is of social media.
Catman said he talked to Aaron about showing landmarks. I'm sure they have talked about this very post we are almost on page 8 of right now. Yes showing the gate number might have been wrong, but people can figure out what town they were in in any video they post. You think these guys are exploiting public land for their gain? It was already said that the THP guys are barely scraping by to fund their endeavor. And they are the only ones doing it for a living, and a meager one, at that. Catman and Dave Owens have real jobs. These guys have figured out a way to fund their passion with their passion. Yep, I'm jealous, too.
You want to see people exploiting our resource for their own gain? Watch Outdoor Channel. Then, when you get tired of macho egos, product placement, "kill at all cost" and the lack of reality in their hunts, flip over to youtube and catch some Pinhoti, THP, Calling All Turkeys and Catman. Breathe in that fresh air, blow out a sigh of relief and thank them for producing videos we can all relate to. That serve as GOOD examples, for anyone who might stumble upon them, of what it is really like to be an outdoorsman/woman. That prove that we, as a culture, are not the disrespectful, blood thirsty lunatics that we are made out to be by Hollywood or your local humane society. These guys are the real embassadors of our sport.
We can pick apart their work. Thats fine. What I think is cool is that they have become so "normal" in our society now that we are starting to take them for granted. If, after several years of content, all they have to worry about is showing a landmark or two in their videos, they're doing something right.
Best,
Royce
Cool story....still doesn't explain the need to post NF gate numbers or town landmarks. Several other hunting shows show only the woods and hunt. The fact that someone has too tell them not to do it says it all.
I will say Aaron is usually not involved in the stupidity. He wasn't in on the hen shooting last year or some of the other goofy stuff. Maybe he should leave them clowns at the house.
Quote from: catman529 on April 13, 2020, 03:36:54 PM
I'm guessing most of y'all aren't on many Facebook hunting groups. It's one thing for someone to figure out a spot by recognizing a landmark in a YouTube video. It's another thing when people openly talk about how many birds they've seen heard or killed on XYZ WMA on Facebook. I see it all the time, people freely give away info on Facebook to anyone who asks. Some are trying to help out a fellow hunter, and some are just bragging. Either way, Facebook and social media in general has done a lot more harm than YouTube videos.
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That's the facts!
These hunting forums and FB have caused much more anal pain than any of the Youtube hunters. If a person recognizes a land mark then so the hell what. That obviously means he's been there before and knows if the hunting is good or if it sucks. (However, the THP gate sign was uncalled for) I'd be willing to be half the folks complaining about it don't even hunt public land. I enjoy watching them and take it for what it is. It's entertainment for me while I'm sipping a beverage on the porch or stuck at work on a slow day, some of ya'll are taking things and yourself way too serious.
Catman, Shane Simpson, THP, and Dave Owens, keep on keeping on, there's a few of us who find your videos entertaining. If you've found a way to make money off of what you enjoy doing then more power to you. Every person complaining had the same opportunity to do what you're doing.
Quote from: Brian Fahs on April 13, 2020, 04:48:18 PM
Quote from: Sixes on April 13, 2020, 04:19:43 PM
I just would like to know how they pull off the money side of all that travel. Out of state licenses, gas, convenience store food would add up quick and they don't seem to worry about jobs.
Maybe I am just jealous :TooFunny:
I have been watching THP videos on youtube for a couple years now. I enjoy watching and consider it entertainment. Nothing more nothing less. Do I wish I had their time and freedoms to hunt pretty much year round? Yes I do. Do I envy their lifestyle? No I dont.
If you pay attention to how they live, the clothes they wear, and the gear they use, it can be seen they are not rich. I'm sure they can get by and hunt like they do solely on their sponsors and youtube payments. However by not working a normal job they sacrifice a nice home, fancy vehicle, good retirement and the joys of having kids and a family.
All of us can be angry at them for exposing our favorite hunting areas but few of us have the balls to go out and pursue our dreams. I do believe THP, catman, and Dave Owens are pursuing their dreams. For that very reason I will continue to watch their shows.
Very well stated and I agree completely.
Interesting points made across the board. My take is that I do enjoy the shows as another poster noted - entertainment . But then again, where I'm from there isn't a whole lot of access to public grounds per say to begin with. So this debate doesn't affect me the way it has a lot of people on here. But it does make me even more thankful for the handful of small private permissions I have to hunt. But this hasn't been perfect either, Cant count how many properties i've lost over the years to land selling, got leased ... Etc: , But that's a discussion for another topic I guess. Good luck everybody !
I personally think Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, sometimes YouTube, and all of that other social media crap is a pimple on the face of America (and the world). In my opinion, social media has way too much influence on our daily lives, elections, news, and current events in general. I'm 29 and this forum is as close to social media as I get. I hate walking into a restaurant, break room at work, or any social gathering and seeing 95% of the people there looking down at their phones. I think I was born to the wrong generation and I wish this world would take a turn away from so much technology but sadly, there's no chance of that happening.
But, to be relevant to the topic, I think Dave Owens does a better job than the others at keeping the spots a secret. I don't think THP or some of the others have bad intentions, i just think they're not as careful as Dave. I'm not a fanboy to any of them and I'll occasionally catch some of their videos. If they suddenly stopped making videos and all of their channels disappeared, it would have no effect on my life or my hunting whatsoever.
Hen shooting???
Social media is definitely a problem and is not going anywhere anytime soon. It has some good sides but y'all are right about the Facebook groups. I can't believe the info I see people sharing in these groups. I watched the gate number video yesterday and then read through the comments. I get the feeling that most of the viewers are young or new hunters. They were all leaving very positive comments. I like the THP guys and think they have good intentions. I hope that they do become aware of how most of us feel about some of the things they're doing. They have a created a large platform and could really use it to influence and teach new hunters not just hunting tips but common hunter courtesy, ethics, etc. I think they've been doing that but they just need a little tap on the shoulder and for somebody that they will listen to say "hey that's not cool quit doing that". Personally I'd love to see them acknowledge what they did and go back and edit the video. There are some serious dummies on the AL Facebook groups. People just need that social gratification so much that they can't help but show the whole world what they killed and where they got it. Anyway hope you all have a blessed remainder of your season.
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Quote from: LaLongbeard on April 14, 2020, 03:31:50 AMCool story....still doesn't explain the need to post NF gate numbers or town landmarks. Several other hunting shows show only the woods and hunt. The fact that someone has too tell them not to do it says it all.
I will say Aaron is usually not involved in the stupidity. He wasn't in on the hen shooting last year or some of the other goofy stuff. Maybe he should leave them clowns at the house.
A couple days ago, the HP guys posted a video in TN. It took me one internet search of a name and I had the location of where they were. A second one and I knew the cove they were camping in. It took me less than 2 minutes. Zero gate numbers, zero iconic landmarks. It's not difficult to narrow down the location.
The point is, you're never going to be able to stop it. Heck, if you call a biologist in the area, they'll tell you where to hunt.
But I do agree with you that Aaron is the most mature and professional of them all.
People have been stealing spots way before the internet. It's just made it worse. TV started the popularity then social media and now it's coming to a head. With that said, turkey hunters are the greediest bunch and have more finger pointers and whiners than any other. Now with the "everyone gets a trophy" generation its made forums and social media insufferable. If guys aren't hearing at least a half dozen with the truck window down they complain.
THP should have never showed the gate number. Being secretive is as old as hunting itself but if anyone watched catmans or THP recent videos they either have armed guardsman keeping people out or pressure isn't as bad as people make it out to be. I mean why do they keep going back to that spot year after year if it's ruined. You can hear so many birds it's hard to believe that it's getting hammered. That or there's a lot of bad turkey hunters there.
.
Quote from: brittman on April 13, 2020, 05:27:03 PM
I would tend to disagree just a bit on the facebook vs. youtube analysis. Many facebook groups are private or semi-private and generally speaking you can hide much of your information and day to day posts from general stalkers (non friends or non memebers). You tube is much more open to the general public.
the FB groups I'm on are 10, 20, 50, 60 thousand members. Some of them are private and some are public. They have enough people reading the posts to ruin a secret quickly. I've lost count of the "where's some good public land in X area" or "are there birds on X wma" posts and some dumbazz or two always has to answer with "yes lots of birds" before someone else says to stop sharing info publicly.
Forums are another bad one, and one I'm guilty of. I didn't know any better or have a clue when I got started, I had no mentor, just the forum and some google searches and videos. I mentioned the wma where I started hunting a few times, and I had some success there. Now you can probably find it via google search for my username. Someone called me out on it, and I eventually stopped and have been more secretive every year as more people watch my videos. I try to share hunting and scouting advice without giving away locations. To help new hunters find some birds without giving away anyone's secret honey hole.
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Anyone thought that maybe they posted the road number as a diversion tactic? Gave shots of a city by a different wma than they were actually hunting? This could have been the diversion/troll tactic to keep people away from their honey holes! It's all a conspiracy! :z-dizzy:
I have mixed feelings on this. I do agree that it's careless to just throw out obvious "giveaways" as to location, because there should be at least a minimum expectation of doing some of your own recon. It seems to me to do that by simply taking advantage of someones error in posting informative content is debateably and symbolically theft of information unless it is expressed as public. I don't worry about it myself. I have done a ton of leg work in the past and will do more. I am constantly looking for ground. Hey if I want information I ask for it. Even out of state people in restaurants and places are always telling me, "I see turkeys in that field down the road every day". My first question is, "who owns it". Just last spring this happened and I asked that question and they pointed to an old man across the room. I waited until he was free and approached him and asked if I might talk to him. He was kind of grumpy, but snortted
"whatta ya want". I asked if he ever allowed turkey hunting and he snortted again, "NO". it was funny there was a yard sale right by the business and I walked over there, as did he. I ended up buying an antique piece of stoneware form what turned out to be his wife. A conversation started up and you know what. He told us to go kill us a couple turkeys and we did. This is how you do your homework, not on the internet. Now we returned last fall and he said we could hunt again. I wouldn't willingly betray that trust by giving away information that would allow someone to find that old man and harass him. If by chance I did and someone caused a problem with him, I'd be upset that I betrayed him. I will never intentionally poach another man's spot that he did not freely give up the information to. To me it's a matter of morals. I have helped many people who had the moral fortitude to simply ask me for help.
You can log on at any time and see posts claiming hunting has been or is being ruined by locals, non residents, young hunters, old hunters, disrespectful hunters, youtubers, TV "pros", season dates, leasing, internet forums, owl hooting, instagram, reaping, facebook, crawling, calling wrong, Chinese manufactured goods, the government, insurance agencies, bag limits, predators, COVID-19, timber companies, burns, the lack of burns, food plots, lack of habitat work, owls, baiting, wet springs.
Point being :welcomeOG:
People are always going to complain and blame I mean look around at our nation right now! But, as far as filmed hunting is concerned you can go back just a few years ago and read thread after thread about how the hunting shows had completely lost touch, gimmicks, tricks, pushed products and unsafe tactics ruled the day. Hunts took place from blinds on giant managed properties owned by millionaire's and we called it unrealistic, we balked and said come to my state and try that, come do that on public land you won't be able to just sit in your blind and watch 5 toms flog your remote control ugly hoochie hen decoy. So the age of youtube and public land began for filmed entertainment, real guys going to real places killing real turkeys. Now the public cries ah too close to home, hey that's where I hunt, stop making it look easy enough everyone will want to try, stop shooting my birds that I claimed where the hardest ever.
About the specific group being named, remember the buck nest in their home state which was later completely over run by hunters due to their own videos. What did they do, go find where the deer went or new spots if hunters had become focused on one spot then they knew there were other over looked spots that now held deer. If a gate number means increased pressure next season the birds will relocate and if they relocate the locals will have the leg up and finding them first like always.
gosh taunto I am probably in at least 8-10 of those categories, but hey griping makes me feel better. I think a lot of what is said here is just unfettered emotion and the grace of anonymity. A venting of hot air in other terms. I have learned a lot more here than I've taken offense to. That doesn't mean we aren't all offended at times or doing the offending, but it's a great forum to share on and I'm glad we have it. In 5 years the same old things will still be said and we'll hopefully all still enjoy turkey hunting
Great post Taunto. :icon_thumright:
I started filming hunts back in 1993, and I am still filming today. I do it now for the same reason I started doing it back then. Its about recording the memories with my friends and family.
Quote from: TauntoHawk on April 14, 2020, 02:09:34 PM
You can log on at any time and see posts claiming hunting has been or is being ruined by locals, non residents, young hunters, old hunters, disrespectful hunters, youtubers, TV "pros", season dates, leasing, internet forums, owl hooting, instagram, reaping, facebook, crawling, calling wrong, Chinese manufactured goods, the government, insurance agencies, bag limits, predators, COVID-19, timber companies, burns, the lack of burns, food plots, lack of habitat work, owls, baiting, wet springs.
Point being :welcomeOG:
People are always going to complain and blame I mean look around at our right now! But, as far as filmed hunting is concerned you can go back just a few years ago and read thread after thread about how the hunting shows had completely lost touch, gimmicks, tricks, pushed products and unsafe tactics ruled the day. Hunts took place from blinds on giant managed properties owned by millionaire's and we called it unrealistic, we balked and said come to my state and try that, come do that on public land you won't be able to just sit in your blind and watch 5 toms flog your remote control ugly hoochie hen decoy. So the age of youtube and public land began for filmed entertainment, real guys going to real places killing real turkeys. Now the public cries ah too close to home, hey that's where I hunt, stop making it look easy enough everyone will want to try, stop shooting my birds that I claimed where the hardest ever.
About the specific group being named, remember the buck nest in their home state which was later completely over run by hunters due to their own videos. What did they do, go find where the deer went or new spots if hunters had become focused on one spot then they knew there were other over looked spots that now held deer. If a gate number means increased pressure next season the birds will relocate and if they relocate the locals will have the leg up and finding them first like always.
This is pretty accurate right here.
Quote from: TauntoHawk on April 14, 2020, 02:09:34 PM
You can log on at any time and see posts claiming hunting has been or is being ruined by locals, non residents, young hunters, old hunters, disrespectful hunters, youtubers, TV "pros", season dates, leasing, internet forums, owl hooting, instagram, reaping, facebook, crawling, calling wrong, Chinese manufactured goods, the government, insurance agencies, bag limits, predators, COVID-19, timber companies, burns, the lack of burns, food plots, lack of habitat work, owls, baiting, wet springs.
Point being :welcomeOG:
People are always going to complain and blame I mean look around at our right now! But, as far as filmed hunting is concerned you can go back just a few years ago and read thread after thread about how the hunting shows had completely lost touch, gimmicks, tricks, pushed products and unsafe tactics ruled the day. Hunts took place from blinds on giant managed properties owned by millionaire's and we called it unrealistic, we balked and said come to my state and try that, come do that on public land you won't be able to just sit in your blind and watch 5 toms flog your remote control ugly hoochie hen decoy. So the age of youtube and public land began for filmed entertainment, real guys going to real places killing real turkeys. Now the public cries ah too close to home, hey that's where I hunt, stop making it look easy enough everyone will want to try, stop shooting my birds that I claimed where the hardest ever.
About the specific group being named, remember the buck nest in their home state which was later completely over run by hunters due to their own videos. What did they do, go find where the deer went or new spots if hunters had become focused on one spot then they knew there were other over looked spots that now held deer. If a gate number means increased pressure next season the birds will relocate and if they relocate the locals will have the leg up and finding them first like always.
you know I didn't really think about it like that. you are right....absolutely right.
We have the same thing with fishing a certain location on Cape Cod, once social media puts the word out its destroyed, it has got to the point where police had to be involved due to arguements, and threats over fishing spots. The younger generation comes in gangs and pushes the regulars out of the spots. They have a love of posing for trophy shots and posting them online to attract many others...they are just so full of themselves. Social media will eventually ruin most hunting and fishing
Thinking about this a little more deeply and I get the whole public land success bit. There are many more hunters that can relate.
Plenty of hunting shows are based on places with individual private land ownership and leases. If they venture off their home place they hunt with outfitters ... sometimes near (often unseen) feeders. Trail cams make scouting more productive than ever. It certainly still hunting and the person still has to make the shot, but many simply cannot relate.
Quote from: TauntoHawk on April 14, 2020, 02:09:34 PM
You can log on at any time and see posts claiming hunting has been or is being ruined by locals, non residents, young hunters, old hunters, disrespectful hunters, youtubers, TV "pros", season dates, leasing, internet forums, owl hooting, instagram, reaping, facebook, crawling, calling wrong, Chinese manufactured goods, the government, insurance agencies, bag limits, predators, COVID-19, timber companies, burns, the lack of burns, food plots, lack of habitat work, owls, baiting, wet springs.
Point being :welcomeOG:
People are always going to complain and blame I mean look around at our right now! But, as far as filmed hunting is concerned you can go back just a few years ago and read thread after thread about how the hunting shows had completely lost touch, gimmicks, tricks, pushed products and unsafe tactics ruled the day. Hunts took place from blinds on giant managed properties owned by millionaire's and we called it unrealistic, we balked and said come to my state and try that, come do that on public land you won't be able to just sit in your blind and watch 5 toms flog your remote control ugly hoochie hen decoy. So the age of youtube and public land began for filmed entertainment, real guys going to real places killing real turkeys. Now the public cries ah too close to home, hey that's where I hunt, stop making it look easy enough everyone will want to try, stop shooting my birds that I claimed where the hardest ever.
About the specific group being named, remember the buck nest in their home state which was later completely over run by hunters due to their own videos. What did they do, go find where the deer went or new spots if hunters had become focused on one spot then they knew there were other over looked spots that now held deer. If a gate number means increased pressure next season the birds will relocate and if they relocate the locals will have the leg up and finding them first like always.
Facts
If you have ever chimed in on any of the various tactics and equipment threads and said, "hey, it's legal so go for it", I would apply that here as well.
Quote from: guesswho on April 15, 2020, 02:48:14 PM
If you have ever chimed in on any of the various tactics and equipment threads and said, "hey, it's legal so go for it", I would apply that here as well.
Oh, no doubt. We are all hypocrites, even though most will not admit it. Unless you hunt in a loin cloth using an atl atl (I will allow a rock as well). Then you are REALLY old fashioned. None of those new fangled bows, or pants, or calls, etc. :angel9:
I might as well throw my 2 cents in here as well. I mean it's obvious we have nothing better to do. It's also obvious that the quarantine has taken effect on some of your brains and attitudes ;)
I watch THP, catman, Dave, and Shane, presumably, like everyone else. I found thp by getting hooked on cabelas spring thunder on youtube and then seeing the same face with THP along with seeing a post on here about how awesome it was to have a breath of fresh air in outdoor entertainment. NOT ONE OF YOU DISAGREED! It was unanimous as to how great it was to have a show like that accessible by all of us. Now, not 3 years later, they're getting bashed by the same folks who praised them. It's actually quite sad. Again, I'll contribute it to being cooped up in your houses too long and not thinking clearly.
I've been a public land hunter my entire life and am always keeping an eye on what other people show for the reasons you guys mentioned. It's not fair to the local or any other outdoorsmen who use that area. I try to be as respectful as I can in new areas for that very reason when it comes to social media or any of my sub par YouTube videos. I've actually been yelled at more than once about NOT showing what bait I'm using or where I'm at. It's quite comical really. However, I'll admit that the gate number went right over my head. I live in Wyoming and gate numbers don't exist so I never gave it a thought. Things get missed and I highly doubt they did that on purpose. They know their following and know how secret to try and keep things. However, it's tough to produce a watchable video without adding in b roll and snapshots of the full story. Scenery does that the best and it's hard to hide it. Also, they're trying to basically hunt and edit everything within a day's time. I don't think anybody is going over it with a fine tooth comb before they hit upload. That blame they can probably take as just "missing one". I guess what I'm getting at is give them a break. It's not as easy at it seems, especially when you reach the level hear guys are on.
Back to the public land hunting, if you're going to be great at it, you better know how to counter punch. In my own little world, if somebody mistakingly showed a gate number, you can bet your last dollar I WONT be going there. I would rather gamble on the fact that that place will be pressured hard but other places, in return, will be pressured less. Not to mention I'd be embarrassed as hell if the next weekend or the next year I ran into catman in the woods and had to tell him how I poached his spot because of his YouTube video. It just seems too low and unethical to me.
To touch on social media it's a very slippery slope as most have realized. I Have been known to show a little gamesmanship and mislead the Internet scouters. Whether that's driving 10 miles down my local 91 mile reservoir to take a picture with my limit of fish, or whether it's posting a scenery shot from a backcountry hunt from a scouting trip in August that was a bust, and not from where I killed that elk. Once enough people figure out a hot spot it's time to go find another hot spot. It's part of the adventure and what keeps hunting fun for me.
Quote from: POk3s on April 15, 2020, 06:05:38 PM
I might as well throw my 2 cents in here as well. I mean it's obvious we have nothing better to do. It's also obvious that the quarantine has taken effect on some of your brains and attitudes ;)
I watch THP, catman, Dave, and Shane, presumably, like everyone else. I found thp by getting hooked on cabelas spring thunder on youtube and then seeing the same face with THP along with seeing a post on here about how awesome it was to have a breath of fresh air in outdoor entertainment. NOT ONE OF YOU DISAGREED! It was unanimous as to how great it was to have a show like that accessible by all of us. Now, not 3 years later, they're getting bashed by the same folks who praised them. It's actually quite sad. Again, I'll contribute it to being cooped up in your houses too long and not thinking clearly.
I've been a public land hunter my entire life and am always keeping an eye on what other people show for the reasons you guys mentioned. It's not fair to the local or any other outdoorsmen who use that area. I try to be as respectful as I can in new areas for that very reason when it comes to social media or any of my sub par YouTube videos. I've actually been yelled at more than once about NOT showing what bait I'm using or where I'm at. It's quite comical really. However, I'll admit that the gate number went right over my head. I live in Wyoming and gate numbers don't exist so I never gave it a thought. Things get missed and I highly doubt they did that on purpose. They know their following and know how secret to try and keep things. However, it's tough to produce a watchable video without adding in b roll and snapshots of the full story. Scenery does that the best and it's hard to hide it. Also, they're trying to basically hunt and edit everything within a day's time. I don't think anybody is going over it with a fine tooth comb before they hit upload. That blame they can probably take as just "missing one". I guess what I'm getting at is give them a break. It's not as easy at it seems, especially when you reach the level hear guys are on.
Back to the public land hunting, if you're going to be great at it, you better know how to counter punch. In my own little world, if somebody mistakingly showed a gate number, you can bet your last dollar I WONT be going there. I would rather gamble on the fact that that place will be pressured hard but other places, in return, will be pressured less. Not to mention I'd be embarrassed as hell if the next weekend or the next year I ran into catman in the woods and had to tell him how I poached his spot because of his YouTube video. It just seems too low and unethical to me.
To touch on social media it's a very slippery slope as most have realized. I Have been known to show a little gamesmanship and mislead the Internet scouters. Whether that's driving 10 miles down my local 91 mile reservoir to take a picture with my limit of fish, or whether it's posting a scenery shot from a backcountry hunt from a scouting trip in August that was a bust, and not from where I killed that elk. Once enough people figure out a hot spot it's time to go find another hot spot. It's part of the adventure and what keeps hunting fun for me.
When the THP and Penhoti project first started it was a new and most would say better version of the hunting shows. Now 3 years in most aren't worth the time anymore. THP filming dusting hens being shot and the other goofy ness that wasn't part of the early shows, and then there's the crawling project not much better. Point is things change and not always for the better. You must be star struck or near sited the gate filming wasn't a passing shot or back ground footage everybody but you and Ray Charles saw it lol. And on top of the filming and giving away locations several people have posted about them parking right next to them on this forum and others. I guess if I only got to hunt 3 days a season or maybe had trouble killing one Gobbler every other year I'd be enamored by the Youtubers but to me there just other Turkey hunters except they have the attention of all the fan boys that can cause issues if careless. This whole thread has been about feelings and opinions lol.
What about the locals that only have time to hunt close to home which just happens to be in the area they drawing attention too? Wonder what they think of your feelings and opinions, cause nobody cares about theirs.
Do you even read what people write or do you have a predetermined thing you want to say in your head and just throw it in there anyway while quoting someone???
Quote from: POk3s on April 15, 2020, 08:03:24 PM
Do you even read what people write or do you have a predetermined thing you want to say in your head and just throw it in there anyway while quoting someone???
Are you actually challenging La Longbeard? How dare you?
He is an authority on all things turkey related and clearly superior to everyone on this site. He is good. Real good. He is from Louisiana and has been traveling for 3 weeks killing turkeys. He has got it going on!
1 Go back and read the original topic.
2 Please post all public land hotspots.
La is busy hunting and will catch up on new areas to hunt as will I and others,when we have the time.
We thank you for your cooperation.
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Quote from: POk3s on April 15, 2020, 08:03:24 PM
Do you even read what people write or do you have a predetermined thing you want to say in your head and just throw it in there anyway while quoting someone???
I don't know do you read what you post? I addressed your statement about everyone liking the YouTube videos when they started and now a lot of people are fed up. I guess that confused you? You apparently are laboring under the delusion that THP accidentally filmed a gate number the original point of the thread. My post should have cleared that up for you but maybe not? You said you put your two cents in I think you should politely ask for one back because your not even clear on what is being said lol.
Quote from: dirtnap on April 15, 2020, 08:25:04 PM
Quote from: POk3s on April 15, 2020, 08:03:24 PM
Do you even read what people write or do you have a predetermined thing you want to say in your head and just throw it in there anyway while quoting someone???
Are you actually challenging La Longbeard? How dare you?
He is an authority on all things turkey related and clearly superior to everyone on this site. He is good. Real good. He is from Louisiana and has been traveling for 3 weeks killing turkeys. He has got it going on!
Hey man appreciate all the accolades but please stop embarrassing yourself with all the fan boy nonsense save it for your tube hero's lol.
Man, what's up with all the anger, hostility and condescending posts? We are all here to talk about an activity we all enjoy, which is a hobby for most and in the great scheme of things isn't that important. Especially at a time like this.
Quote from: CAPTJJ on April 15, 2020, 09:15:45 PM
Man, what's up with all the anger, hostility and condescending posts? We are all here to talk about an activity we all enjoy, which is a hobby for most and in the great scheme of things isn't that important. Especially at a time like this.
agreed! this place has become my retreat
Quote from: TauntoHawk on April 14, 2020, 02:09:34 PM
You can log on at any time and see posts claiming hunting has been or is being ruined by locals, non residents, young hunters, old hunters, disrespectful hunters, youtubers, TV "pros", season dates, leasing, internet forums, owl hooting, instagram, reaping, facebook, crawling, calling wrong, Chinese manufactured goods, the government, insurance agencies, bag limits, predators, COVID-19, timber companies, burns, the lack of burns, food plots, lack of habitat work, owls, baiting, wet springs.
You forgot TSS......
I personally find that these forums bring out the "greatest hunters" and the "know it all" "arrogant" crowd looking down their 5"6 nose at anyone who does not hunt,use or do what they do. They are the same ones who hunt "public land" trying to tell others to stay away from "public land".
It's there for everyone to use,Be safe and if you think you have rights,other than common decency(hunting ethics)....well,the other guy has as much as you do.If you don't like that you could purchase your own land,instead of relying on the government.
I would never let some social media show or person get under my skin.It's easy,turn the channel,web page or turn it off.
Quote from: CAPTJJ on April 15, 2020, 09:15:45 PM
Man, what's up with all the anger, hostility and condescending posts? We are all here to talk about an activity we all enjoy, which is a hobby for most and in the great scheme of things isn't that important. Especially at a time like this.
Yep, thought I had logged on to Archery talk by mistake....
Golly...
Y'all want some cheese to go with the whine?
Is it safe to assume we can blame the YouTubers for the National toilet paper shortage? Wasn't there footage from a WalMart where they were buying licenses? That store is now out of TP and hand sanitizer.
Quote from: LaLongbeard on April 15, 2020, 06:35:10 PM
When the THP and Penhoti project first started it was a new and most would say better version of the hunting shows. Now 3 years in most aren't worth the time anymore. THP filming dusting hens being shot and the other goofy ness that wasn't part of the early shows, and then there's the crawling project not much better. Point is things change and not always for the better. You must be star struck or near sited the gate filming wasn't a passing shot or back ground footage everybody but you and Ray Charles saw it lol. And on top of the filming and giving away locations several people have posted about them parking right next to them on this forum and others. I guess if I only got to hunt 3 days a season or maybe had trouble killing one Gobbler every other year I'd be enamored by the Youtubers but to me there just other Turkey hunters except they have the attention of all the fan boys that can cause issues if careless. This whole thread has been about feelings and opinions lol.
What about the locals that only have time to hunt close to home which just happens to be in the area they drawing attention too? Wonder what they think of your feelings and opinions, cause nobody cares about theirs.
Now 3 years in most aren't worth the time anymore. - This is your opinion stated as a fact. It proves nothing.
THP filming dusting hens being shot and the other goofy ness that wasn't part of the early shows, and then there's the crawling project not much better. - Again, your opinion. Most believe that Pinhoti has gotten better over the last couple years.
You must be star struck or near sited the gate filming wasn't a passing shot or back ground footage everybody but you and Ray Charles saw it - He said he was from out West where they don't have gate numbers. It's not complicated to understand if you can comprehend that not everyone is exactly like you.
And on top of the filming and giving away locations several people have posted about them parking right next to them on this forum and others. - So if it's on the internet, it's got to be true?
This whole thread has been about feelings and opinions - Exactly. Except you're arguing that your opinions are facts.
What about the locals that only have time to hunt close to home which just happens to be in the area they drawing attention too? Wonder what they think of your feelings and opinions, cause nobody cares about theirs. - Not that you ACTUALLY care about people's opinions that differ from you, but I fall into that category and I agree with him.
Quote from: Muzzy61 on April 16, 2020, 08:44:03 AM
Quote from: CAPTJJ on April 15, 2020, 09:15:45 PM
Man, what's up with all the anger, hostility and condescending posts? We are all here to talk about an activity we all enjoy, which is a hobby for most and in the great scheme of things isn't that important. Especially at a time like this.
Yep, thought I had logged on to Archery talk by mistake....
Nope, on that site you get baited by a mod while giving your 2cents and get booted. Here it can get rough but life goes on.
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Quote from: CALLM2U on April 16, 2020, 12:18:20 PM
Quote from: LaLongbeard on April 15, 2020, 06:35:10 PM
When the THP and Penhoti project first started it was a new and most would say better version of the hunting shows. Now 3 years in most aren't worth the time anymore. THP filming dusting hens being shot and the other goofy ness that wasn't part of the early shows, and then there's the crawling project not much better. Point is things change and not always for the better. You must be star struck or near sited the gate filming wasn't a passing shot or back ground footage everybody but you and Ray Charles saw it lol. And on top of the filming and giving away locations several people have posted about them parking right next to them on this forum and others. I guess if I only got to hunt 3 days a season or maybe had trouble killing one Gobbler every other year I'd be enamored by the Youtubers but to me there just other Turkey hunters except they have the attention of all the fan boys that can cause issues if careless. This whole thread has been about feelings and opinions lol.
What about the locals that only have time to hunt close to home which just happens to be in the area they drawing attention too? Wonder what they think of your feelings and opinions, cause nobody cares about theirs.
Now 3 years in most aren't worth the time anymore. - This is your opinion stated as a fact. It proves nothing.
THP filming dusting hens being shot and the other goofy ness that wasn't part of the early shows, and then there's the crawling project not much better. - Again, your opinion. Most believe that Pinhoti has gotten better over the last couple years.
You must be star struck or near sited the gate filming wasn't a passing shot or back ground footage everybody but you and Ray Charles saw it - He said he was from out West where they don't have gate numbers. It's not complicated to understand if you can comprehend that not everyone is exactly like you.
And on top of the filming and giving away locations several people have posted about them parking right next to them on this forum and others. - So if it's on the internet, it's got to be true?
This whole thread has been about feelings and opinions - Exactly. Except you're arguing that your opinions are facts.
What about the locals that only have time to hunt close to home which just happens to be in the area they drawing attention too? Wonder what they think of your feelings and opinions, cause nobody cares about theirs. - Not that you ACTUALLY care about people's opinions that differ from you, but I fall into that category and I agree with him.
Your choice of green is poor at best.
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Quote from: CALLM2U on April 16, 2020, 12:18:20 PM
Quote from: LaLongbeard on April 15, 2020, 06:35:10 PM
When the THP and Penhoti project first started it was a new and most would say better version of the hunting shows. Now 3 years in most aren't worth the time anymore. THP filming dusting hens being shot and the other goofy ness that wasn't part of the early shows, and then there's the crawling project not much better. Point is things change and not always for the better. You must be star struck or near sited the gate filming wasn't a passing shot or back ground footage everybody but you and Ray Charles saw it lol. And on top of the filming and giving away locations several people have posted about them parking right next to them on this forum and others. I guess if I only got to hunt 3 days a season or maybe had trouble killing one Gobbler every other year I'd be enamored by the Youtubers but to me there just other Turkey hunters except they have the attention of all the fan boys that can cause issues if careless. This whole thread has been about feelings and opinions lol.
What about the locals that only have time to hunt close to home which just happens to be in the area they drawing attention too? Wonder what they think of your feelings and opinions, cause nobody cares about theirs.
Now 3 years in most aren't worth the time anymore. - This is your opinion stated as a fact. It proves nothing.
THP filming dusting hens being shot and the other goofy ness that wasn't part of the early shows, and then there's the crawling project not much better. - Again, your opinion. Most believe that Pinhoti has gotten better over the last couple years.
You must be star struck or near sited the gate filming wasn't a passing shot or back ground footage everybody but you and Ray Charles saw it - He said he was from out West where they don't have gate numbers. It's not complicated to understand if you can comprehend that not everyone is exactly like you.
And on top of the filming and giving away locations several people have posted about them parking right next to them on this forum and others. - So if it's on the internet, it's got to be true?
This whole thread has been about feelings and opinions - Exactly. Except you're arguing that your opinions are facts.
What about the locals that only have time to hunt close to home which just happens to be in the area they drawing attention too? Wonder what they think of your feelings and opinions, cause nobody cares about theirs. - Not that you ACTUALLY care about people's opinions that differ from you, but I fall into that category and I agree with him.
So to be clear. Everything in green is YOUR opinion only, stated as facts.....basically the same thing you said about my post? You went to a lot of trouble for nothing lol. Next time use red it may make YOUR opinion matter....not really
Some of you guys need to try the "ignore user" button. Makes your life better and the reading of the forums easier.
Oh, you can still see their posts if someone quotes them, but not anything can be done about that. just confirms what you already know.
Just to play devils advocate (I don't disagree with a fair amount of what's been posted on this topic), If you were to go to google and type in "public turkey hunting in _________ (whatever state you wanted to look at)" or something similar, the majority of the search results that pop up are from outdoor writers, the NWTF, and forums just like this one. I'm not bashing this site or any other for that because larger sites get ranked higher by google and search engines (which means google is more likely to pull these sites up early in the search results) so when a discussion about a public place gets brought up on a large forum, google is more likely to find it. It's just the way search engines work. The problem is, people don't understand that so they just assume that they are replying to a post on a thread that 5-10 other guys are going to see and it's in a vacuum in that isolated topic they're replying to... In reality google stores that thread, and the words associated with it, so when Joe Blow goes to google and types in the name of a WMA they've been wanting to hunt, that thread topic will pop up...even years later. We're talking about a search engine that see's an average of roughly 3.8 million searches per minute... that's not an exaggeration.
Not saying youtube doesn't play a role but any time something is posted on the internet, particularly in a large discussion forum, those threads are out there to be found by the worlds largest search engine. All that to say, yeah, the youtube videos probably expose information that wasn't available 10-15 years ago but they are just one channel for information to be spread over the internet...If it's posted on-line, google will find it and it will become very public, very fast.
good post redleg, you are correct. I noticed this a longtime ago. Once you's put it out there it's open for the entire world to see. If you use your area (state) in your screen name you get hits too. I'm guilty too, but we shouldn't post anything that you wouldn't want on a billboard
This is just the tip of the iceberg. Videoing hunts are now the thing and more and more info about public areas will be popping up. The world is constantly changing and thats the way it is. Turkey hunting will continue to change with it and its nothing you can do about it. I learned a long time ago that hunting spots you have will most likely not remain yours unless you own the property. We get complaceant and believe that we are locked in on a spot that we have had for ten years only to find out at a drop of a hat that we have to move on because its leased out from under you , sold , clear cutted into a parking lot or someone found it and showed a buddy who showed a buddy. I have learned to enjoy my spots now because next year it may be over ran or completely lost. Don't take your spots for granted because things will for certain change. Just the way it is. You have to adapt and overcome or make adjustments in the way you are hunting. I hate it , but have come to accept it. It was wrong to show the gate with the number on it but they can do as they please rather we like it or not. Its not gonna get any better fella's.
It is public land...people can do whatever whenever they want. Props to anyone making great videos to post on YouTube. Are we really mad some standup individuals enjoy creating video content to share with people? They have talked about people finding spots before...they certainly don't want that happening themselves. Not so much their turkey hunts, but many of their deer hunting spots they revisit often. They definitely try their best to hide any easily identifiable information that would clue people in on where they are. At the end of the day though if someone wants to scan a topo map for hours to find the same topo features that really isn't their fault. Do you go to the gun store and blame them if they sold a gun to a murderer? No, of course not.
Lazy people are always going to find ways to mooch off people putting in the work. Someone watching a YouTube and finding a good spot is way down my list of concerns. In 99% of public land people stalk my car, follow my footprints, ask me detailed questions about where I was hunting etc....that is the type of thing I worry about. I think people attract attention to their spots themselves a lot of times. Last deer season one guy pulled out a nice buck and sat there for hours showing it off the people driving by. Another guy bragged by putting the nuts on a tree by the trail. Don't know about anyone else, but when I shoot something I am getting it to my car and getting out of dodge before anyone sees.
Last deer season one guy pulled out a nice buck and sat there for hours showing it off the people driving by. Another guy bragged by putting the nuts on a tree by the trail. Don't know about anyone else, but when I shoot something I am getting it to my car and getting out of dodge before anyone sees.
[/quote]
I don't get why people would do that. I am with you and try to get out quickly and unseen. I make sure to pick up my empty and if I can find it the wad along with any large clumps of feathers especially if the bird was shot in a field. I don't want anyone to know but me that a bird was killed there.
Quote from: Plush on April 22, 2020, 08:44:29 AM
It is public land...people can do whatever whenever they want. Props to anyone making great videos to post on YouTube. Are we really mad some standup individuals enjoy creating video content to share with people? They have talked about people finding spots before...they certainly don't want that happening themselves. Not so much their turkey hunts, but many of their deer hunting spots they revisit often. They definitely try their best to hide any easily identifiable information that would clue people in on where they are. At the end of the day though if someone wants to scan a topo map for hours to find the same topo features that really isn't their fault. Do you go to the gun store and blame them if they sold a gun to a murderer? No, of course not.
Lazy people are always going to find ways to mooch off people putting in the work. Someone watching a YouTube and finding a good spot is way down my list of concerns. In 99% of public land people stalk my car, follow my footprints, ask me detailed questions about where I was hunting etc....that is the type of thing I worry about. I think people attract attention to their spots themselves a lot of times. Last deer season one guy pulled out a nice buck and sat there for hours showing it off the people driving by. Another guy bragged by putting the nuts on a tree by the trail. Don't know about anyone else, but when I shoot something I am getting it to my car and getting out of dodge before anyone sees.
First off you can't do whatever you want on public land. Most public land you can't target practice or even camp unless it's in a designated area. Why? Because it affects the other users. When someone has thousands of followers, they hold the power to physical affect areas for other public land users for years. States set game seasons and bag limits for a reason. Can you go out and kill whatever you want when you want because it's public land? No, that would affect the other users. If a place doubles in pressure because 50,000 people watched a video and turns the place into a circus, I would say that has negatively affected all the other users that found the area the right way. That's how areas get put into a draw hunt or some other system to handle the hunting pressure. All I'm saying is people need to realize the platforms they have can positively or negatively affect the communities in the areas they visit.
You are also correct about them hiding their deer spots a lot better than their turkey spots. For some people turkey season is the only season they hunt. They should guard all of their spots because the spots the hunt are other public users spots as well. I would feel terrible if I turned some working dads honey hole into a magnet for idiots especially if all I had to do was not video a sign to prevent it.
Btw I'm with you on not showing your kills. Lol. I'll hide my turkey in the woods and make sure the coast is clear before I through him in my truck.
YouTube videos certainly aren't the only technology to make hunting tougher on public land. Now I am not that old, but I bet hiding spots was way easier before people could watch areas 24/7 with a trail camera to know what was in the area or google earth. Not to mention people learning what is or isn't public land easily via an app like ON X. As someone else said you just have to adapt if something like this truly caused more pressure in your area. It won't be the last thing to change hunting on public land.
People are going to do what they want to do. If it makes them happy, is legal, and they are respectful I just tip my cap to them. I may not agree with what some people do, but I can't control them. I go elsewhere or figure out how to turn an inconvenience into an advantage.
Public is public, that says it all. It is owned by anyone who wants to go there. If you buy a lic you can hunt there. Sounds like a bunch of cry babies. First off if you only have one spot to hunt turkeys you are not a real'turkey hunter.' Second I have in the past went to a heavy hunted area two weeks after opening day and bagged a gobbler. I know some of you have too. What's all the fuss about? Just expand your horizons. Third do your homework, Dave Owens does. If I found him in one of my favorite public honey holes, 'good luck' and I would go to another spot. If I got there first, 'hi, nice to meet you' and I would tell him where I'm going and hope I don't see ya there and he would RESPECT that, that's the kind of guy he is and I can say that without ever meeting him from watching his videos. You see Dave is a 'turkey hunter' and doesn't cry. I will apologize ahead of time if I fuffled any 'feathers.' Just my :z-twocents: worth, just my opinion, like butt h...s, everyone has one. Good Luck to everyone still hunting, my opening day is this coming Monday, low forties to start. :you_rock:
Loose lips sink ships. Count on it.....
I agree that youtubers (especially those with thousands of followers) should be secretive if at all possible with video locations. With that being said, I think there is a heavy dose of butt hurt on this thread to the point of being pretty whiney. Making fun of a THP guy for wearing a women's turkey vest...c'mon man, to me that's comical. I think some guys are just mad that some dudes that look and sound like surfers are out there successfully killing gobblers on public land, and having a whole lot of fun doing it. It breaks the mold, it's inviting to newcomers, and, honestly, I think the personalities and experiences are a lot more representative of reality than all the hardasses scouling in videos of the past. Maybe the old videos with the gritty, dramatic country song intro and cheesy lyrics were less threatening to everyone's secret spot though.
Quote from: Borsy on April 22, 2020, 10:48:34 PM
I agree that youtubers (especially those with thousands of followers) should be secretive if at all possible with video locations. With that being said, I think there is a heavy dose of butt hurt on this thread to the point of being pretty whiney. Making fun of a THP guy for wearing a women's turkey vest...c'mon man, to me that's comical. I think some guys are just mad that some dudes that look and sound like surfers are out there successfully killing gobblers on public land, and having a whole lot of fun doing it. It breaks the mold, it's inviting to newcomers, and, honestly, I think the personalities and experiences are a lot more representative of reality than all the hardasses scouling in videos of the past. Maybe the old videos with the gritty, dramatic country song intro and cheesy lyrics were less threatening to everyone's secret spot though.
I'd say you nailed it
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Quote from: Borsy on April 22, 2020, 10:48:34 PM
I agree that youtubers (especially those with thousands of followers) should be secretive if at all possible with video locations. With that being said, I think there is a heavy dose of butt hurt on this thread to the point of being pretty whiney. Making fun of a THP guy for wearing a women's turkey vest...c'mon man, to me that's comical. I think some guys are just mad that some dudes that look and sound like surfers are out there successfully killing gobblers on public land, and having a whole lot of fun doing it. It breaks the mold, it's inviting to newcomers, and, honestly, I think the personalities and experiences are a lot more representative of reality than all the hardasses scouling in videos of the past. Maybe the old videos with the gritty, dramatic country song intro and cheesy lyrics were less threatening to everyone's secret spot though.
BINGO
I have loved watching the Pinhoti Project and have watched a few THP shows. While I hate THP basically gives clues as to where they are, the one thing I like from both of the channels is that they they show the etiquette that should come along with hunting public woods. See another truck, go to plan B, C, etc.
I have had two instances this year of people walking up to gobbling turkeys crow calling, hooting, and yelping. All the while I'm set up patiently working the bird. Now, I know things like this is bound to happen on public ground eventually. One of these birds was running out of breath he was gobbling so much and I needed him to step out about 5 more yards before I could shoot. I heard the guy coming from a long way away and thought I'd kill the bird before he'd get close. Well, the bird stayed put for a while gobbling at everything and here comes Ole boy crowing away. After he bumped the bird I definitely lost my temper and ran to him to give him a piece of my mind about that damned crow call. As I was walking off I was thinking to myself if that kid had watched more of Dave Owens he'd know that is not how you approach a turkey.
My point is there are definitely good and bad things with all of the shows on YouTube and stuff, but I do believe if people paid attention to them it would help EVERYONE in the woods have a good day instead of ruining EVERYONES DAY by being ignorant.
Ok, rant over.
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I hate technological videos; I prefer to watch those residing in my memory. They are so much more memorable and cause no harm.
Ah Silvestris, you are a Betamax dude in a streaming world! (heck, you might even be 8mm) :angel9:
Quote from: g8rvet on April 24, 2020, 08:07:37 PM
Ah Silvestris, you are a Betamax dude in a streaming world! (heck, you might even be 8mm) :angel9:
lol
Silvestris will have more turkey man left in his thumb in his 90s than most of you in the prime of your careers. Some will never have any at all, and you know who you are
Quote from: Ranger on April 28, 2020, 11:01:54 AM
Silvestris will have more turkey man left in his thumb in his 90s than most of you in the prime of your careers. Some will never have any at all, and you know who you are
Easy there Tiger, I was just teasing Silvestris.
Just gonna bring this back to the top in hopes that the new and old youtubers will think and be conscious of what and where they video this year. They have flat ruined spots in my area and I'm sure it will be worse this year.
I killed the last turkey on oklahoma public land.
Well dang ! I thought I killed the last one in Oklahoma.
Must of been 2 left ... ???????
Just to add too all this it's not just You Tube it's your cell phones also, ever try surf fishing on a beach and a blitz starts up you will be elbow to elbow within minutes after the first call goes out.
Quote from: PaytonWP on February 11, 2021, 09:07:31 PM
Just gonna bring this back to the top in hopes that the new and old youtubers will think and be conscious of what and where they video this year. They have flat ruined spots in my area and I'm sure it will be worse this year.
Agreed. SURELY mid-week pressure can't be as bad. Most folks are back at work now, aren't they? But I'm pretty sure the weekend crowds will be the worse we've ever seen in the public woods during modern times. And some turkey 'destination' states are going to be absolutely overrun with traveling hunters. That's why I am taking my travels elsewhere!
I've been turkey hunting 30 yrs now. I've seen a lot of things change over that time. I can remember when all the Primos, K&H etc were on VHS and buying them for 8 or 9 dollars each spring in the Walmart sporting goods section. Primos and K&H were my favorite and I enjoyed them a lot and looked forward to there new VHS and then DVD releasing each year. Did this increase the number of turkey hunters? Without a doubt it did. Then the outdoor channel come along and played the episodes on there which I watched and enjoyed...did that help increase the number of turkey hunters...without a doubt it did. Today we have the internet and numerous social media outlets. 30 yrs later and I find myself loving to carry a camera with me into the spring woods and sharing my experience with others..
Now I read back through all the comments and many have great points and truth. Never should anyone announce where there at hunting...giving a state is one thing giving exact locations is wrong period. This is something we (I) don't do and never will...which we hunt 99% private land but we still don't give locations. I was taught at an early age that's a no go and still today if someone invites me to hunt with them and it's a new location of public land I will not go back on my own and will only go if I'm invited back. Hard work pays off and boots on the ground is the best way to be successful. I've always been successful due to my own hard work. I love hunting public land and have been very successful doing so...but I've also faced dealing with other hunters. All of the encounters I've faced in my so called honey holes has been from others telling people they've seen turkey in those areas and non of which was hunters themselves so it happens and it's not always from a video.
Now several of the comments on this topic to me are wrong and painting everyone that likes to video or even post there hunts with a broad brush is wrong, very inaccurate and narrow minded. I've seen the statement of "want to be YouTube hero's" several times. So I can personally tell you I'm no hero and have never looked for that title and I know several others that also fall in line with me. I've also seen the hate for social media in posts and I'll be the first to say I don't like most forms of social medial and believe FB has been terrible for turkey hunting as it has for many other game species. I limit myself on those outlets and again never tell where I hunt. But reading some of the posts and to seeing the disgust for social media makes me wonder why are they on OG since it's a form of social media...if ur going to take that stance then take it for all forms. I love OG and have been here since the start but it's a social media platform that can be searched on the net. Does it add to some of the number of turkey hunters and enthusiasm of hunting absolutely.
Many things have contributed to the number of hunters in the woods these days and most are what I call weekend warriors or the one week and done crowd. I'm like anyone else and don't like dealing with crowded woods for the number one fact or safety. But if one calls for the end of videos you must also call for the end of the NWTF convention, local sports shows, Call Makers shows, box stores selling and displaying calls etc (I can remember when bass pro started displaying a call with each call they sold friction wise that You could try out), local NWTF chapters, calling contests and all forums etc and the list could go on because they have all added to the numbers of hunters in the spring woods. We're going to have more and new people turkey hunting regardless if there videos or not. I seen post of this topic that implies we don't need anymore new hunters. Please tell me how you intend to address that because there is more contributing to it then videos on YouTube. Last year was a perfect storm with the virus hitting and so many people out of work. I suspect it to not be as bad this year but I could be wrong. But I can tell You this Lord willing I'll be out hunting this magnificent bird something I absolutely love no matter what...and I can guarantee you I'm not going to give it up until I'm unable to walk or 6 feet underground. I also enjoy helping new hunters and showing them the art of it. So many these days run out to get the newest gimmick instead of learning how to hunt them and having woodsman-ship. I was blessed to have a dad that showed me how to hunt turkeys and the challenge the thrill of calling them in. This is just my 2 cents on it. God bless and enjoy each day we are blessed to be in the spring woods as we're not promised another day!
I like to travel and hunt different states every weekend. Not because of the YT craze but more so because I like rode tripping and checking out new places. Public land is public land and I can also see why some guys would be pissed about this craze leading to a lot of public land overcrowded, but even on here-I've gotten nasty PMs from people when I've just MENTIONED that I killed a bird in a particular state. My point is there's always going to be grumpy people when it comes to more info being out there and the fact that they feel their state has an army of turkey hunters coming in to hunt it.
I think we can all agree that at the end of the day, the YT turkey hunting craze will never cause turkey hunting to be deer hunting. Racks make people do some crazy things and it's just a different level. I can't ever see turkey hunting being commercialized even close to deer hunting, which I guess is a good thing for us
Quote from: turkeyfool on February 12, 2021, 02:05:31 PM
I like to travel and hunt different states every weekend. Not because of the YT craze but more so because I like rode tripping and checking out new places. Public land is public land and I can also see why some guys would be pissed about this craze leading to a lot of public land overcrowded, but even on here-I've gotten nasty PMs from people when I've just MENTIONED that I killed a bird in a particular state. My point is there's always going to be grumpy people when it comes to more info being out there and the fact that they feel their state has an army of turkey hunters coming in to hunt it.
I think we can all agree that at the end of the day, the YT turkey hunting craze will never cause turkey hunting to be deer hunting. Racks make people do some crazy things and it's just a different level. I can't ever see turkey hunting being commercialized even close to deer hunting, which I guess is a good thing for us
Gobbling birds will make people do even crazier things.
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Quote from: turkeyfool on February 12, 2021, 02:05:31 PM
I can't ever see turkey hunting being commercialized even close to deer hunting, which I guess is a good thing for us
In my opinion, it doesn't lack much more to become just as commercialized. Especially in the eastern U.S. The commercialization has increased substantially the past decade.
Quote from: deerhunt1988 on February 12, 2021, 02:37:25 PM
Quote from: turkeyfool on February 12, 2021, 02:05:31 PM
I can't ever see turkey hunting being commercialized even close to deer hunting, which I guess is a good thing for us
In my opinion, it doesn't lack much more to become just as commercialized. Especially in the eastern U.S. The commercialization has increased substantially the past decade.
If a dollar can be made someone is going to try and capitalize on it...just the facts of life. It has increased over the years but I agree with turkeyfool it's not got to the deer commercialized point yet. But if turkey grew horns we'd be in trouble! LOL
Have to agree that this stuff has been going on long before you tube. VHS and the hunting channels really kicked it into gear. A lot of good public spots can be found from the road listening. Driving by and seeing truck after truck parked in an area even can draw more to stop and hunt. If they aren't there is not many turkeys gobbling there.
I don't know why THP would purposely show where they are at? It would hurt them in the future too I would think. Catman goes spot to spot avoiding others it seems. And probably wants to go back later turkey or deer hunting. Pointing out a spot seems to be a mistake by them, not on purpose.
I started turkey hunting before turkey loads and turkey guns came about. Not many hunting, wouldn't that be nice again.
Oh almost forgot . There isn't no turkeys in Missouri !
Quote from: sasquatch1 on February 12, 2021, 02:18:52 PM
Gobbling birds will make people do even crazier things.
No doubt. On a piece of public ground in Maryland, I set up on a gobbling bird I put to bed the night before. He was roosted off a main dirt road about 150 yards down the sidehill, my truck was parked in line with his roost tree at the ridge top. Got within 80 yards of his roost in the dark early.
He lit up at daybreak gobbling good, and right then, heard a truck stop, door open dinging / keys in ignition. Bird gobbles again.
Guy starts his truck, and parked where I was and few minutes comes sliding down the sidehill through all those leaves, sees me waving about 60 yards below, and slides to a stop at my tree. Looks at me and asks "you gonna hunt that bird?"
Duh.
Guy looks all disappointed, dejected, and watched him climb back up to the top, making a bunch of noise in the leaves, get in his truck, keys in ignition dinging, and drive off. Never heard that gobbler again.
Public ground. Most often everyone is courteous. Once and a while, you get a zero. That was before this youtube stuff was popular.
Too many guys are out there hunting who can't wait to put their bird or deer on YouTube, Facebook or such. Sickening IMO. Not more than a few of them wouldn't even hunt if they couldn't post and brag on it. I elk hunted 10 years in CO and a fellow camp hunter, if successful, had it on Facebook long before rigor mortis set in. Equally sickening. And for those of you that do fit the aforementioned criteria at least have the common sense and decency to edit your pic prior to posting and delete GPS location.
Quote from: Turkeyman on February 12, 2021, 06:01:28 PM
Too many guys are out there hunting who can't wait to put their bird or deer on YouTube, Facebook or such. Sickening IMO. Not more than a few of them wouldn't even hunt if they couldn't post and brag on it. I elk hunted 10 years in CO and a fellow camp hunter, if successful, had it on Facebook long before rigor mortis set in. Equally sickening. And for those of you that do fit the aforementioned criteria at least have the common sense and decency to edit your pic prior to posting and delete GPS location.
Turkeyman here is in my opinion and the problem with ur statement. You are painting everyone that post a pic on social medial with the same wide brush. I've been turkey hunting 30 yrs now and thank God for that blessing. But I can remember the days before the internet and social media the local sporting goods stores taking your Polaroid picture with ur bird or deer and placing on the wall with the many hundreds of pictures. I can remember the local news paper having a section for picture of local hunters with the deer or turkey they bagged and even some magazines do the same. We're they wrong to do that to share in there success back then with others? Am I wrong because I've posted a pic of a bird I've killed on social media to share with my friends and family? I've shared many on here as well as others. I enjoy a great success story and a pic to go along with it to enjoy there success. I've never set out on a hunt saying man I hope I kill one just to post on social media. We all have to be responsible! I'm totally 100% against giving up locations...but it's been going on well before now. People giving up locations at the local sporting goods store, at the local watering hole, people watching where others hunt etc. now with today's advances it's just easier to obtain and it's easier for people to travel and hunt multiple states than it was years ago. Now are there some out there that do as u say that are in it for the glory...absolutely and have for years. Same reason most poachers do what they do for the attention, glory and bragging rights...but people's been poaching for many many years. What's truly lacking these days in my opinion my friend is hunting ethics, curtesy, respect, woodsman-ship etc. Has social media help foster the loss of those yes it has but it's doesn't carry all the blame....a lot starts at home and how you are raised! I was raised to have respect, to show respect, to be curtious, to have woodsman-ship, to respect the animal and do unto others as u would have to do unto you. Unfortunately as we can all see in the news we're not going the right direction at all in any of those areas and it will bleed over into hunting as it already has! Turkeyman please know I've not made this response in disrespect as I stand shoulder to shoulder with you brother! I share your passion and your my turkey hunting brother no matter what!! God bless u!!
I'd be plenty happy if they stuck their video cameras where the sun doesn't shine and let people figure things out on their own.
The wild turkey was doing a hell of a lot better than it is right now before all the youtubers and media brands began highlighting public lands and areas of the country with robust turkey populations. Now we have a rapidly declining turkey population while turkey hunter numbers are surging and harvest rates are high.
If you believe the wild turkey is better off with the amount of exposure it has been and continues to receive, I've got some ocean front property in Colorado for you.
Quote from: Kyle_Ott on February 12, 2021, 08:04:28 PM
I'd be plenty happy if they stuck their video cameras where the sun doesn't shine and let people figure things out on their own.
The wild turkey was doing a hell of a lot better than it is right now before all the youtubers and media brands began highlighting public lands and areas of the country with robust turkey populations. Now we have a rapidly declining turkey population while turkey hunter numbers are surging and harvest rates are high.
If you believe the wild turkey is better off with the amount of exposure it has been and continues to receive, I've got some ocean front property in Colorado for you.
Kyle if videos has caused all this so has this forum and we all need to remove ourselves from it now because as we speak were hurting the turkey population! Hunting videos have been around for many years this is nothing new. Habitat and the lack of people hunting and killing predictors in my opinion is the number one factor in declining turkey numbers. If exposure of the wild turkey is whats hurting them so much then the NWTF has done more to hurt then ever help! Which I don't believe for one second! I'll say it again no one should ever give out locations (which has been happening well before the internet) but showing and sharing one's success if done right is not wrong! Infomation is so much easier to come by look at apps like Onx...I can remember going to the local court house and researching property to help gain access to land for hours. Now u can download an app and get that information. Painting everyone with one broad brush that likes to film hunts is very narrow minded! I also hope others will never take the stance of not willing to help others figure out how to truly turkey hunt something that is rare these days. God bless
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Page 14 has some funny stories about all the explanations for declining turkey numbers. It's refreshing to see that many of these types of arguments have been going on for a long time. I just want the turkey population to be healthy and for us all to have many opportunities to hunt them.
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Quote from: VA_Birdhunter on February 12, 2021, 08:25:49 PM
Quote from: Kyle_Ott on February 12, 2021, 08:04:28 PM
I'd be plenty happy if they stuck their video cameras where the sun doesn't shine and let people figure things out on their own.
The wild turkey was doing a hell of a lot better than it is right now before all the youtubers and media brands began highlighting public lands and areas of the country with robust turkey populations. Now we have a rapidly declining turkey population while turkey hunter numbers are surging and harvest rates are high.
If you believe the wild turkey is better off with the amount of exposure it has been and continues to receive, I've got some ocean front property in Colorado for you.
Kyle if videos has caused all this so has this forum and we all need to remove ourselves from it now because as we speak were hurting the turkey population!
One of THP's most recent turkey videos had nearly 100k views in a day. IN A DAY. Its much easier to watch something than it is to dig through forums. Just look at all the questions that are asked on here time and time again when the answer could be found with 15 minutes of searching posts.
YouTube and Facebook have substantially more "outreach" these days than forums. Forums are somewhat antiquated in comparison.
Quote from: deerhunt1988 on February 12, 2021, 09:06:32 PM
Quote from: VA_Birdhunter on February 12, 2021, 08:25:49 PM
Quote from: Kyle_Ott on February 12, 2021, 08:04:28 PM
I'd be plenty happy if they stuck their video cameras where the sun doesn't shine and let people figure things out on their own.
The wild turkey was doing a hell of a lot better than it is right now before all the youtubers and media brands began highlighting public lands and areas of the country with robust turkey populations. Now we have a rapidly declining turkey population while turkey hunter numbers are surging and harvest rates are high.
If you believe the wild turkey is better off with the amount of exposure it has been and continues to receive, I've got some ocean front property in Colorado for you.
Kyle if videos has caused all this so has this forum and we all need to remove ourselves from it now because as we speak were hurting the turkey population!
One of THP's most recent turkey videos had nearly 100k views in a day. IN A DAY. Its much easier to watch something than it is to dig through forums. Just look at all the questions that are asked on here time and time again when the answer could be found with 15 minutes of searching posts.
YouTube and Facebook have substantially more "outreach" these days than forums. Forums are somewhat antiquated in comparison.
I don't disagree at all with that. My point is though one can't just lump everyone into the same group but if one social medial plat form has cause negative impacts then they all have contributed to some point and if that really matters so much to someone then they can't pick and choose which one is ok and which ones are not. I'll use the NWTF for example which i know is not social media but they use social media to advertise etc...hundreds of thousands of people go to the convention now...many new hunters. Much More than there use to be. Should the NWTF be shut down?
I have stayed away from this post for so long, probably should remain that way. But, oh well, here goes...
At one time, I believed the commercialization of turkey hunting brought more people to the woods and would ruin the sport one day. It does bring more people to the woods. It hasn't ruined the sport, made more challenging, yes. Sometimes.
I seen spot burning in Erie tribs years ago steelhead fishing. It got real obvious, real quick, what was going on. Yes it can happen. I seen that change as well, once people realized what was happening after they made the local waterway "reports". I myself watched them like a Hawk, and would drive 300 miles overnight when the reports were right and consistent.
People do come from far and wide, all around the world if you have something they want. How did these youtubers find this place to start out with? All of us have the same access as they do. Your on it now if your reading this. The mapping apps have made things awesome for us hunters. Awesome!
Think about this - 28 or so years ago I was riding a road before daylight looking for a bear track to run, snow was on. I come around the corner of this dirt road and my dogs start rigging/barking, no track in the snow? Next turn I go around there are 2 trucks in the road, and a bear track crossing it.
This was a single lane dirt road in WVA, N.F. land. These guys come to me and ask me what I am doing "I haven't left my truck" in a not so quit friendly tone? They explain to me how long they have hunted this National Forest! They explain to me "how many head of dogs they feed"! They make me believe, I am not welcome on that piece of NF land! In a very intimidating fashion, I will add! Still remember it today, still mad about it as well!
I was in my early 20's at this time. Like to think I could hold my own, as proven several times back then. But, 3 to 1 odds in the middle of Nowhere WV, where the buzzards have even migrated south and wouldn't find you for 3 more months at best? That ain't the time to puff out your chest!
Today I roll up on public and some dip wad does this, I will be on social media as fast as possible and unleash as many hunters down his throat as I can convince to go and hunt that spot. "Heard 12 turkeys in there hammering all morning, after I killed one I just set and listened for hours! Greatest hunt ever." Doesn't matter the game animal, that's not the point.
Not everything we see on T.V. is as conclusive as what we see on T.V.. Meaning, there is always more to the story. You jerk me around and I would spot burn your spot on Social Media in a heart beat, from a 1000 miles away. Just for fun. Think about that, when you roll up to YOUR parking spot on public and someone dares to pull in beside you. "I hate it too", but its all OUR land to hunt. If you come out of the woods and have 4 flat tires? More to the story eh?
Its easy to set here and beat someone down. But, maybe there is a little more to the story that we don't know. Think about that. I am by no means am a christian man, not even close. But, "Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you" will make for a better place for us all!
Another I like, "Eye for an Eye". That too would make a better place for us all, IMO.
Quote from: paboxcall on February 12, 2021, 05:44:07 PM
Quote from: sasquatch1 on February 12, 2021, 02:18:52 PM
Gobbling birds will make people do even crazier things.
No doubt. On a piece of public ground in Maryland, I set up on a gobbling bird I put to bed the night before. He was roosted off a main dirt road about 150 yards down the sidehill, my truck was parked in line with his roost tree at the ridge top. Got within 80 yards of his roost in the dark early.
He lit up at daybreak gobbling good, and right then, heard a truck stop, door open dinging / keys in ignition. Bird gobbles again.
Guy starts his truck, and parked where I was and few minutes comes sliding down the sidehill through all those leaves, sees me waving about 60 yards below, and slides to a stop at my tree. Looks at me and asks "you gonna hunt that bird?"
Duh.
Guy looks all disappointed, dejected, and watched him climb back up to the top, making a bunch of noise in the leaves, get in his truck, keys in ignition dinging, and drive off. Never heard that gobbler again.
Public ground. Most often everyone is courteous. Once and a while, you get a zero. That was before this youtube stuff was popular.
Before my channel really took off, I roosted a bird in 2017 and got there the next morning before everyone else. Two guys from another state parked by my truck and snuck in on me and shot the bird off the roost. I was 50 yards from the bird and got it all on video. That's got to be the best public land story I've had to date.
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Quote from: catman529 on February 12, 2021, 09:52:27 PM
Quote from: paboxcall on February 12, 2021, 05:44:07 PM
Quote from: sasquatch1 on February 12, 2021, 02:18:52 PM
Gobbling birds will make people do even crazier things.
No doubt. On a piece of public ground in Maryland, I set up on a gobbling bird I put to bed the night before. He was roosted off a main dirt road about 150 yards down the sidehill, my truck was parked in line with his roost tree at the ridge top. Got within 80 yards of his roost in the dark early.
He lit up at daybreak gobbling good, and right then, heard a truck stop, door open dinging / keys in ignition. Bird gobbles again.
Guy starts his truck, and parked where I was and few minutes comes sliding down the sidehill through all those leaves, sees me waving about 60 yards below, and slides to a stop at my tree. Looks at me and asks "you gonna hunt that bird?"
Duh.
Guy looks all disappointed, dejected, and watched him climb back up to the top, making a bunch of noise in the leaves, get in his truck, keys in ignition dinging, and drive off. Never heard that gobbler again.
Public ground. Most often everyone is courteous. Once and a while, you get a zero. That was before this youtube stuff was popular.
Before my channel really took off, I roosted a bird in 2017 and got there the next morning before everyone else. Two guys from another state parked by my truck and snuck in on me and shot the bird off the roost. I was 50 yards from the bird and got it all on video. That's got to be the best public land story I've had to date.
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JUST keep on going Catman. What you do in my opinion isn't hurting a thing for hunting turkey.
People have been chasing down gobbling turkeys for years, does not matter if your parked there or working a bird . Parking there means you maybe on turkeys. Plenty of dummies will park there with you knowing that. A few trucks in a parking lot or area and these guys say yep toms in here, lets go.
The ones that drive by ? Well they will be there the next day. Missouri public land oh boy.
THP showed a fan coming up to them at a gas station one morning. Just to prove a point, I told a buddy, give me 30 minutes and I'll tell you where they are. Using google street view, Took about 10 before I figured it out. Guess what, they were right next to a piece of public, where they were showing gobbling birds.
Same can be said for guys talking about a distance from an airport, city, etc. all it takes is showing an exit sign and people can hone in.
If you guys think these YouTube hunters aren't putting a lot more people in these areas they publicize, you are dead wrong.
Once you see an area(s) bombarded with people after someone puts a video out there, your attitude tends to change...
buddy of mine sent a podcast about Dave Owens talking about how bad the pressure on south FL public has became. Why do you think that is ???
Spot jumping, stealing or whatever you choose to call it is not a new thing in any form. The one thing that is true is it can be done a lot quicker now than in the past. I myself have figured out where someone is from a video, it's really not hard. You will notice that I never post panoramic pictures, it's me, the turkey and some dirt; unless it's at my home and then it's a mute point. We get our panties all bunched up over things we shouldn't. Let me ask a simple question; why is a singular spot so precious? Are we there for a hunt or is success at all cost the priority. I like working birds and killing birds as much as anyone, but I will hunt even if I don't think I will kill a bird. I like getting out and hunting, period.
Way back in my early years (circa 1980) I was hunting the family farm and I had just started my career at the Fish Hatchery where we checked turkeys. I was after this one old bird and it was the only real active gobbler I new of. well I made the mistake of talking about it at the check station. The next day I was on the bird and he spooks for no reason. Next thing I see is 4 men coming down the ridge like they are sneaking in to set up. Remember this is private land. I get up and whistle at them and they start waving me off, so I go to them. They instantly tell me to move off they are videoing this hunt for a turkey hunting video. Then I blow my top and tell them to get the hell off it's private land and they refuse. So I leave and when I get to work I make a call to the local game warden. well they show up at the check station and I tell them to wait someone wants to talk to them and I radio the warden. Later they confess to one of them hearing me talk about the bird and they asked a coworker my name and then asked around the community about where our land was. I had multiple run ins with this group over the years. You all know one of the guys name....he appears on many videos and calls himself a turkey thug. To me he's just a thug! So this isn't a new thing. I say keep your information close if you don't want to share it or deal with it. I have decided I would rather enjoy a day afield and not deal with the crap, so i move on. It's really just a dang bird and isn't worth a ton of heartache.
Quote from: catman529 on February 12, 2021, 09:52:27 PM
Quote from: paboxcall on February 12, 2021, 05:44:07 PM
Quote from: sasquatch1 on February 12, 2021, 02:18:52 PM
Gobbling birds will make people do even crazier things.
No doubt. On a piece of public ground in Maryland, I set up on a gobbling bird I put to bed the night before. He was roosted off a main dirt road about 150 yards down the sidehill, my truck was parked in line with his roost tree at the ridge top. Got within 80 yards of his roost in the dark early.
Care to post a link catman? Id like to see that
He lit up at daybreak gobbling good, and right then, heard a truck stop, door open dinging / keys in ignition. Bird gobbles again.
Guy starts his truck, and parked where I was and few minutes comes sliding down the sidehill through all those leaves, sees me waving about 60 yards below, and slides to a stop at my tree. Looks at me and asks "you gonna hunt that bird?"
Duh.
Guy looks all disappointed, dejected, and watched him climb back up to the top, making a bunch of noise in the leaves, get in his truck, keys in ignition dinging, and drive off. Never heard that gobbler again.
Public ground. Most often everyone is courteous. Once and a while, you get a zero. That was before this youtube stuff was popular.
Before my channel really took off, I roosted a bird in 2017 and got there the next morning before everyone else. Two guys from another state parked by my truck and snuck in on me and shot the bird off the roost. I was 50 yards from the bird and got it all on video. That's got to be the best public land story I've had to date.
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Care to post a link catman?
Quote from: catman529 on February 12, 2021, 09:52:27 PM
Quote from: paboxcall on February 12, 2021, 05:44:07 PM
Quote from: sasquatch1 on February 12, 2021, 02:18:52 PM
Gobbling birds will make people do even crazier things.
No doubt. On a piece of public ground in Maryland, I set up on a gobbling bird I put to bed the night before. He was roosted off a main dirt road about 150 yards down the sidehill, my truck was parked in line with his roost tree at the ridge top. Got within 80 yards of his roost in the dark early.
He lit up at daybreak gobbling good, and right then, heard a truck stop, door open dinging / keys in ignition. Bird gobbles again.
Guy starts his truck, and parked where I was and few minutes comes sliding down the sidehill through all those leaves, sees me waving about 60 yards below, and slides to a stop at my tree. Looks at me and asks "you gonna hunt that bird?"
Duh.
Guy looks all disappointed, dejected, and watched him climb back up to the top, making a bunch of noise in the leaves, get in his truck, keys in ignition dinging, and drive off. Never heard that gobbler again.
Public ground. Most often everyone is courteous. Once and a while, you get a zero. That was before this youtube stuff was popular.
Before my channel really took off, I roosted a bird in 2017 and got there the next morning before everyone else. Two guys from another state parked by my truck and snuck in on me and shot the bird off the roost. I was 50 yards from the bird and got it all on video. That's got to be the best public land story I've had to date.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Definitely one of my favorite vids back when I watched them! :TooFunny: If I watched it again right now, i'd bust out laughing and think "Arkie got 'em!"
Quote from: Kyle_Ott on February 12, 2021, 08:04:28 PM
I'd be plenty happy if they stuck their video cameras where the sun doesn't shine and let people figure things out on their own.
The wild turkey was doing a hell of a lot better than it is right now before all the youtubers and media brands began highlighting public lands and areas of the country with robust turkey populations. Now we have a rapidly declining turkey population while turkey hunter numbers are surging and harvest rates are high.
If you believe the wild turkey is better off with the amount of exposure it has been and continues to receive, I've got some ocean front property in Colorado for you.
Come on man! You could wipe out the entire population of turkeys on all public lands east of the Mississippi and it wouldn't make a significant difference in the overall population of wild turkeys in that area of the country. To blame YouTubers for the decline in turkey populations is just silly.
Quote from: silent tom on February 13, 2021, 06:52:51 AM
THP showed a fan coming up to them at a gas station one morning. Just to prove a point, I told a buddy, give me 30 minutes and I'll tell you where they are. Using google street view, Took about 10 before I figured it out. Guess what, they were right next to a piece of public, where they were showing gobbling birds.
Same can be said for guys talking about a distance from an airport, city, etc. all it takes is showing an exit sign and people can hone in.
If you guys think these YouTube hunters aren't putting a lot more people in these areas they publicize, you are dead wrong.
Once you see an area(s) bombarded with people after someone puts a video out there, your attitude tends to change...
buddy of mine sent a podcast about Dave Owens talking about how bad the pressure on south FL public has became. Why do you think that is ???
Dave has single handedly changed the dynamics of hunting on Big Cypress and he will continue to kill turkeys there despite the pressure because he is tenacious and talented. A close industry friend of mine who hunted down there last year was told by the ranger there was a 400% increase in the number of people who hunted a particular area on opening weekend compared to opening weekends in the past.
Everybody found out that THP was on Bienville last year and it's now the number one draw application WMA in the state of Mississippi. Everybody knows that Dave hunts Homochitto; ask a local how enjoyable things are down there from a pressure perspective.
There are countless locals who have had Youtubers visit their local public hunting spots only to deal with the masses who descend afterwards. The reality is, the average turkey hunter doesn't have the disposable income or the vacation time to travel all over the country and they have to deal with the consequences of exposure once it happens.
The majority of the United States now has a decreasing turkey population despite the fact that turkey hunter numbers are increasing. There are still plenty of places a guy can go and hear turkeys gobble,
BUT the reality is most of those places were considerably better 5,10 and 15 years ago. Most people have not travelled extensively enough or long enough to have any perspective on this. I started hunting out of stated in 2003. There is something impactfully saddening about visiting a piece of public land where gobbling turkeys were abundant 15 years ago to see it over run with trucks. If you've never experienced it, I'm happy for you. But no one can tell me it's better for the turkeys. As far as I'm concerned, until we start shortening season lengths and reducing bag limits, the turkeys don't need additional hunter recruitment and they sure don't need Youtubers broadcasting where you can get unlimited OTC tags to kill turkeys until your trigger finger is broken or your conscience finally catches up to you.
To be clear, I don't have any fundamental problems with videoed turkey hunting. I've consumed thousands of hours of it from the earliest Truth series videos, to Cutt'n and Strutt'n to Youtube. But for the life of me, I do not understand why the YouTube crowd feels compelled to disclose what state and/or region they are hunting when it comes to public land. It's unnecessary and it's the the root of the problem but they continue to do it.
My opinions are not popular among the fanboys and everyone promoting inclusion these days but they are formulated based on a lot of personal experience and quantifiable data (harvest numbers, population data, etc). Turkey hunting is more fun with more gobbling turkeys in the woods. Despite the fact that it's rewarding, it's considerably less fun when you have to walk 15 miles in a day to find one. My kid can participate in plenty of activities that provide more immediate rewards and satisfaction than turkey hunting on public land offers a kid these days. The better hunting is on private land and you're going to continue to see lease prices escalate as those with $$$ become more willing to pay absurd prices to avoid the public land rat race.
Goodluck this spring.
Back in the early 90's I moved to SC from TN. I started hunting WMA here and was enjoying a cheeseburger burger after an uneventful morning learning to turkey hunt by myself. A fella had doubled on longbeards and brought to the check station (we no longer have these). We all congratulated him and went back in, there was a group of older guys talking about it all and next thing you know they are sorting out where he was hunting from his truck...I recognized it too. My thought then was if I ever get lucky enough to actually kill a bird I need to be ready to never hunt that spot again cause folks that are determined to figure stuff like that out most certainly will.
I had a guy bird dog me for two days once, everytime I came out of the woods his truck was a 100yds up the road. Kind of a jerk thing to do but he never walked in on me or disturbed my hunt in any way he just parked his truck 100yds from mine at 7 different spots in 2 days. I should add i had killed a bird shortly after flydown on the first day due to a forum buddy that had left me an envelope at the check in box marking 6-8 gobbling birds. I like old familiar ground as much as anyone but public ground hunting has developed in me a "find the next spot" attitude. I felt like the turkey woods were more crowded in the late 90's than they are now...probably just my perception though.
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Quote from: Kyle_Ott on February 13, 2021, 08:56:23 AM
Quote from: silent tom on February 13, 2021, 06:52:51 AM
THP showed a fan coming up to them at a gas station one morning. Just to prove a point, I told a buddy, give me 30 minutes and I'll tell you where they are. Using google street view, Took about 10 before I figured it out. Guess what, they were right next to a piece of public, where they were showing gobbling birds.
Same can be said for guys talking about a distance from an airport, city, etc. all it takes is showing an exit sign and people can hone in.
If you guys think these YouTube hunters aren't putting a lot more people in these areas they publicize, you are dead wrong.
Once you see an area(s) bombarded with people after someone puts a video out there, your attitude tends to change...
buddy of mine sent a podcast about Dave Owens talking about how bad the pressure on south FL public has became. Why do you think that is ???
Dave has single handedly changed the dynamics of hunting on Big Cypress and he will continue to kill turkeys there despite the pressure because he is tenacious and talented. A close industry friend of mine who hunted down there last year was told by the ranger there was a 400% increase in the number of people who hunted a particular area on opening weekend compared to opening weekends in the past.
Everybody found out that THP was on Bienville last year and it's now the number one draw application WMA in the state of Mississippi. Everybody knows that Dave hunts Homochitto; ask a local how enjoyable things are down there from a pressure perspective.
There are countless locals who have had Youtubers visit their local public hunting spots only to deal with the masses who descend afterwards. The reality is, the average turkey hunter doesn't have the disposable income or the vacation time to travel all over the country and they have to deal with the consequences of exposure once it happens.
The majority of the United States now has a decreasing turkey population despite the fact that turkey hunter numbers are increasing. There are still plenty of places a guy can go and hear turkeys gobble, BUT the reality is most of those places were considerably better 5,10 and 15 years ago.
Most people have not travelled extensively enough or long enough to have any perspective on this. I started hunting out of stated in 2003. There is something impactfully saddening about visiting a piece of public land where gobbling turkeys were abundant 15 years ago to see it over run with trucks. If you've never experienced it, I'm happy for you. But no one can tell me it's better for the turkeys. As far as I'm concerned, until we start shortening season lengths and reducing bag limits, the turkeys don't need additional hunter recruitment and they sure don't need Youtubers broadcasting where you can get unlimited OTC tags to kill turkeys until your trigger finger is broken or your conscience finally catches up to you.
To be clear, I don't have any fundamental problems with videoed turkey hunting. I've consumed thousands of hours of it from the earliest Truth series videos, to Cutt'n and Strutt'n to Youtube. But for the life of me, I do not understand why the YouTube crowed feels compelled to disclose what state and/or region they are hunting when it comes to public land. It's unnecessary and it's the the root of the problem but they continue to do it.
My opinions are not popular among the fanboys and everyone promoting inclusion these days but they are formulated based on a lot of personal experience and quantifiable data (harvest numbers, population data, etc). Turkey hunting is more fun with more gobbling turkeys in the woods. Despite the fact that it's rewarding, it's considerably less fun when you have to walk 15 miles in a day to find one. My kid can participate in plenty of activities that provide more immediate rewards and satisfaction than turkey hunting on public land offers a kid these days. The better hunting is on private land and you're going to continue to see lease prices escalate as those with $$$ become more willing to pay absurd prices to avoid the public land rat race.
Goodluck this spring.
Hammer meet nail. 100% excellent and spot on post.
Quote from: Kyle_Ott on February 13, 2021, 08:56:23 AM
Everybody found out that THP was on Bienville last year and it's now the number one draw application WMA in the state of Mississippi. Everybody knows that Dave hunts Homochitto; ask a local how enjoyable things are down there from a pressure perspective.
You can't blame Dave or THP because they didn't reveal their locations. The blame lies at the feet of those that publish that info on forums and Facebook. Your post is a prime example of this. If anyone reading this thread didn't know where they were hunting in Mississippi, they certainly do now.
QuoteCome on man! You could wipe out the entire population of turkeys on all public lands east of the Mississippi and it wouldn't make a significant difference in the overall population of wild turkeys in that area of the country. To blame YouTubers for the decline in turkey populations is just silly.
I hope you seriously don't believe this! There are many large tracts of National forest in the east that do indeed hold a significant part of the local population. I will be honest and say I have never followed you on social media or watched more than a couple of your videos and after this statement I will make it a point to not watch "
ANY. I may be wrong, but I'd suggest rethinking this post. To me it kind of comes across as a "kill them all" attitude. I truly hope you just were being facetious and not serious. I wish you well in your endeavors, but i think you made an error posting a statement like " wipe out the entire population of turkeys on all public lands east of the Mississippi "
look at me! look at me! I killed a turkey! What a joke these social media guys are.
Go hunt and enjoy it for yourself.... you don't need others approval/verification by posting videos online. You've lost sight of what turkey hunting is or maybe you never knew if posting videos like it's your job appeals to you as a turkey hunter. Keep it quiet. Loose lips sink ships
Quote from: eggshell on February 13, 2021, 09:15:27 AM
QuoteCome on man! You could wipe out the entire population of turkeys on all public lands east of the Mississippi and it wouldn't make a significant difference in the overall population of wild turkeys in that area of the country. To blame YouTubers for the decline in turkey populations is just silly.
I hope you seriously don't believe this! There are many large tracts of National forest in the east that do indeed hold a significant part of the local population. I will be honest and say I have never followed you on social media or watched more than a couple of your videos and after this statement I will make it a point to not watch "ANY. I may be wrong, but I'd suggest rethinking this post. To me it kind of comes across as a "kill them all" attitude. I truly hope you just were being facetious and not serious. I wish you well in your endeavors, but i think you made an error posting a statement like " wipe out the entire population of turkeys on all public lands east of the Mississippi "
I was trying to make a point. Public land makes up a small percentage of the total land area. Therefore the number of turkeys on public is very small compared to the number of turkeys on private. The density of turkeys on private is also much higher. My point being that to imply that increased hunting pressure on public lands has a significant impact on the total turkey population is just ridiculous.
Wow, this thread makes me want to leave the forum. What a bunch of whiners. As hunting evolves, you have to evolve with it. Just because a youtuber was in "your" spot, doesn't give you the right to bash everyone. It is in fact public land. Their license dollars help pay for it every bit as much as yours do. Instead of complaining about the amount of people trying to capitalize on pieces of ground that THP, or Dave hunt, figure out another place to go so that you don't have to deal with it.
Yes, there was an increase of pressure on public last year, but how many people had a heck of a lot more time to hunt because of covid? I know I did. As a teacher, I was off school, and was able to hunt every single day from April1-May 31. I think that is where the majority of the pressure came from last season. Sure, certain areas that youtubers hit might have a few more people, but instead of complaining about it, figure out a new game plan. Youtube isn't going away, and complaining isn't going to help you kill turkeys.
Just a few thoughts about all of the above:
1) I like "turkey hunting" videos,...."turkey killing" videos, not so much. I won't go into the details about which is which to me, but suffice it to say there are certain videos I will turn off the instant I see certain implements being incorporated into the hunt. In addition, if those implements are being used in certain exclusive, turkey-rich environments that a blind-folded toddler could kill a gobbler in, I will turn them off twice as fast. There are just too many really good, real-turkey-huntin' videos (Dave, Shane, THP, Catman, Panola, etc.) out there to put up with the wannabees.
2) All video dudes should eliminate all references or clues to where they are hunting other than generalizations. It's okay to say you're hunting in Alaska,...just don't say (or show) that you are hunting at "Gobblers Last Stand WMA",...or wherever.
3) I believe the increase in turkey hunting popularity is more due to the bird itself than anything. It is just a blast,...and people that start hunting spring gobblers, in particular, soon find themselves wanting to do more of it than what they can get in their home state alone. If you want to blame something else for the existing crowds, then look squarely at things like the mindset of certain organizations of "let's get every single dad, mom, and child into turkey huntin' so we can soak everybody for as many dollars as we can,...the impacts on the resource be damned."
...The End...(For Now) ;D :angel9:
Quote from: arkrem870 on February 13, 2021, 09:19:39 AM
look at me! look at me! I killed a turkey! What a joke these social media guys are.
Go hunt and enjoy it for yourself.... you don't need others approval/verification by posting videos online. You've lost sight of what turkey hunting is or maybe you never knew if posting videos like it's your job appeals to you as a turkey hunter. Keep it quiet. Loose lips sink ships
Most You Tubers posting there videos we know who they are, it is there only real job making money off you viewing there channel. If you stopped watching you tube the problem goes away.
Turkey hunting is not about views or likes!!!
Quote from: simpzenith on February 13, 2021, 09:24:33 AM
Quote from: eggshell on February 13, 2021, 09:15:27 AM
QuoteCome on man! You could wipe out the entire population of turkeys on all public lands east of the Mississippi and it wouldn't make a significant difference in the overall population of wild turkeys in that area of the country. To blame YouTubers for the decline in turkey populations is just silly.
I hope you seriously don't believe this! There are many large tracts of National forest in the east that do indeed hold a significant part of the local population. I will be honest and say I have never followed you on social media or watched more than a couple of your videos and after this statement I will make it a point to not watch "ANY. I may be wrong, but I'd suggest rethinking this post. To me it kind of comes across as a "kill them all" attitude. I truly hope you just were being facetious and not serious. I wish you well in your endeavors, but i think you made an error posting a statement like " wipe out the entire population of turkeys on all public lands east of the Mississippi "
I was trying to make a point. Public land makes up a small percentage of the total land area. Therefore the number of turkeys on public is very small compared to the number of turkeys on private. The density of turkeys on private is also much higher. My point being that to imply that increased hunting pressure on public lands has a significant impact on the total turkey population is just ridiculous.
If I might interject in an attempt to be a peace-maker here....
As far as I can tell, both of you are really good folks with what I consider to be the right attitude. I just think there was an initial misinterpretation of the point Shane was making.
As an aside, eggshell, if you do not watch Shane's videos, you might give them a look. In my opinion, his are some of the best in terms of showing what turkey hunting is really all about,....at least from my own perspective. :icon_thumright:
Quote from: simpzenith on February 13, 2021, 09:14:22 AM
Quote from: Kyle_Ott on February 13, 2021, 08:56:23 AM
Everybody found out that THP was on Bienville last year and it's now the number one draw application WMA in the state of Mississippi. Everybody knows that Dave hunts Homochitto; ask a local how enjoyable things are down there from a pressure perspective.
You can't blame Dave or THP because they didn't reveal their locations. The blame lies at the feet of those that publish that info on forums and Facebook. Your post is a prime example of this. If anyone reading this thread didn't know where they were hunting in Mississippi, they certainly do now.
The irony of you attempting to make the case against me for putting that out there is nothing less than hilarious, Shane.
It's already common knowledge. Do you know why? Because they publicly disclosed they were in Mississippi and there are many unique attributes about that particular WMA that allowed people to figure it out. Without disclosing the state, it would've been difficult to narrow down. And it sure as hell wouldn't be the number one draw choice right now.
What about when THP went to the public land around Nashville and bowhunted it via boat with Seekone? They literally said they were in Tennessee.
Get out of here with your flawed attempts to defend what is purely feigned discretion.
Living in arkansas and seeing what social media/YouTube has done to our public duck hunting is sickening. Now we are doing it to turkeys hunting as well.....
Quote from: Kyle_Ott on February 13, 2021, 08:56:23 AM
Quote from: silent tom on February 13, 2021, 06:52:51 AM
THP showed a fan coming up to them at a gas station one morning. Just to prove a point, I told a buddy, give me 30 minutes and I'll tell you where they are. Using google street view, Took about 10 before I figured it out. Guess what, they were right next to a piece of public, where they were showing gobbling birds.
Same can be said for guys talking about a distance from an airport, city, etc. all it takes is showing an exit sign and people can hone in.
If you guys think these YouTube hunters aren't putting a lot more people in these areas they publicize, you are dead wrong.
Once you see an area(s) bombarded with people after someone puts a video out there, your attitude tends to change...
buddy of mine sent a podcast about Dave Owens talking about how bad the pressure on south FL public has became. Why do you think that is ???
Dave has single handedly changed the dynamics of hunting on Big Cypress and he will continue to kill turkeys there despite the pressure because he is tenacious and talented. A close industry friend of mine who hunted down there last year was told by the ranger there was a 400% increase in the number of people who hunted a particular area on opening weekend compared to opening weekends in the past.
Everybody found out that THP was on Bienville last year and it's now the number one draw application WMA in the state of Mississippi. Everybody knows that Dave hunts Homochitto; ask a local how enjoyable things are down there from a pressure perspective.
There are countless locals who have had Youtubers visit their local public hunting spots only to deal with the masses who descend afterwards. The reality is, the average turkey hunter doesn't have the disposable income or the vacation time to travel all over the country and they have to deal with the consequences of exposure once it happens.
The majority of the United States now has a decreasing turkey population despite the fact that turkey hunter numbers are increasing. There are still plenty of places a guy can go and hear turkeys gobble, BUT the reality is most of those places were considerably better 5,10 and 15 years ago.
Most people have not travelled extensively enough or long enough to have any perspective on this. I started hunting out of stated in 2003. There is something impactfully saddening about visiting a piece of public land where gobbling turkeys were abundant 15 years ago to see it over run with trucks. If you've never experienced it, I'm happy for you. But no one can tell me it's better for the turkeys. As far as I'm concerned, until we start shortening season lengths and reducing bag limits, the turkeys don't need additional hunter recruitment and they sure don't need Youtubers broadcasting where you can get unlimited OTC tags to kill turkeys until your trigger finger is broken or your conscience finally catches up to you.
To be clear, I don't have any fundamental problems with videoed turkey hunting. I've consumed thousands of hours of it from the earliest Truth series videos, to Cutt'n and Strutt'n to Youtube. But for the life of me, I do not understand why the YouTube crowd feels compelled to disclose what state and/or region they are hunting when it comes to public land. It's unnecessary and it's the the root of the problem but they continue to do it.
My opinions are not popular among the fanboys and everyone promoting inclusion these days but they are formulated based on a lot of personal experience and quantifiable data (harvest numbers, population data, etc). Turkey hunting is more fun with more gobbling turkeys in the woods. Despite the fact that it's rewarding, it's considerably less fun when you have to walk 15 miles in a day to find one. My kid can participate in plenty of activities that provide more immediate rewards and satisfaction than turkey hunting on public land offers a kid these days. The better hunting is on private land and you're going to continue to see lease prices escalate as those with $$$ become more willing to pay absurd prices to avoid the public land rat race.
Goodluck this spring.
This guy gets it. :icon_thumright:
Quote from: simpzenith on February 13, 2021, 09:14:22 AM
Quote from: Kyle_Ott on February 13, 2021, 08:56:23 AM
Everybody found out that THP was on Bienville last year and it's now the number one draw application WMA in the state of Mississippi. Everybody knows that Dave hunts Homochitto; ask a local how enjoyable things are down there from a pressure perspective.
You can't blame Dave or THP because they didn't reveal their locations. The blame lies at the feet of those that publish that info on forums and Facebook. Your post is a prime example of this. If anyone reading this thread didn't know where they were hunting in Mississippi, they certainly do now.
Dave and THP have a much greater outreach than this forum now.
And they both said they were hunting Mississippi.
Quote from: simpzenith on February 13, 2021, 08:41:29 AM
Quote from: Kyle_Ott on February 12, 2021, 08:04:28 PM
I'd be plenty happy if they stuck their video cameras where the sun doesn't shine and let people figure things out on their own.
The wild turkey was doing a hell of a lot better than it is right now before all the youtubers and media brands began highlighting public lands and areas of the country with robust turkey populations. Now we have a rapidly declining turkey population while turkey hunter numbers are surging and harvest rates are high.
If you believe the wild turkey is better off with the amount of exposure it has been and continues to receive, I've got some ocean front property in Colorado for you.
Come on man! You could wipe out the entire population of turkeys on all public lands east of the Mississippi and it wouldn't make a significant difference in the overall population of wild turkeys in that area of the country. To blame YouTubers for the decline in turkey populations is just silly.
But what if the public lands are the only place a fellow has to hunt?
Quote from: arkrem870 on February 13, 2021, 09:53:42 AM
Living in arkansas and seeing what social media/YouTube has done to our public duck hunting is sickening. Now we are doing it to turkeys hunting as well.....
Based on the number of Arkansas hunters I run into while hunting other states, I'd say that they are single handedly responsible for the turkey decline. :TooFunny:
Quote from: Kyle_Ott on February 13, 2021, 09:51:10 AM
What about when THP went to the public land around Nashville and bowhunted it via boat with Seekone? They literally said they were in Tennessee.
Definitely sucks for the locals who've been hunting that way in the area. GUARANTEE hunting pressure via boat will increase on those public lands this spring.
I actually had a local reach out to me after a FB post I made. He said after the TN boat deer videos, boat ramp traffic from hunters increased drastically. Ramps he rarely saw a hunter at had multiple trucks after those videos.
A few things I find ironic about this thread...
#1 - Some of the ones complaining about Youtubers sharing too much info are the same ones who have used forums and social media to e-scout and gather info for years now. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
#2 - People gripe and complain about how social media is ruining everything (and it is) yet they still have accounts on every major platform. If you hate it so badly, then why do you still participate?
Quote from: deerhunt1988 on February 13, 2021, 10:01:05 AM
Dave and THP have a much greater outreach than this forum now.
And they both said they were hunting Mississippi.
All these posts here show up on Google searches. It doesn't take but a minute to find out where everyone's talking about in this thread. Doesn't make much sense complaining about someone who makes videos while posting all the intel on a public forum that is crawled by search engines... one of the first things I do when I want to turkey hunt another state is pop a few google searches, and topics like this come up. That would tell me all I needed to know about the local turkey population. I wouldn't even have to watch a video to find out, Google is faster.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Gobblenut, we really need to meet sometime before two old men run out of turkey time! I think we are a lot in the same mind set.
There are a lot of opinions shared and a lot of passion involved in this thread. I like everyone else have mine and some are most likely wrong. I have had the privilege of having access to inside management information and I have been at this since turkey hunting's infancy in my area. I worked 31 years for our Division of Wildlife. I have seen the good the bad and the ugly. I also have a degree in wildlife management, to boot. I do have some scientific basis to my opinions. That does not mean I am infallible.
There is not much science on youtube hunting videos impact on turkey populations from increased hunting, most opinions are based on speculation and personal experience or passion. However; there is research on hunting pressure's impact on gobbler densities and recruitment (no I didn't look up the citations, but it's out there). The research I am familiar with found we are very impactful on gobbler populations on public ground. We are actually very good at killing gobblers as a community. Some of this research also says that birds move away from pressure. So when Shane says "The density of turkeys on private is also much higher.", he is correct. However, this is also a conviction of pressure on public land. Those densities are a result, to some degree of public pressure.
I don't think many of us dispute that overall turkey populations are declining. The state and federal wildlife agencies are working on it, whether everyone believes it or not. My best guess is that multiple factors are involved. I think Habitat, disease, genetics, hunting pressure and weather all have a part. sorting out the primary reason will take time and research. I do not believe hunting is a primary broad scope problem.
The regulations are good that are in place and allow for a sustainable harvest. Are there areas in the country that may need some restricted harvest, sure there are. These are mostly localized and specific. I do think that a sudden concentration of hunting pressure can be very impactful on a small area or region. Yes, video production can cause this. In those areas it's not only the gobblers killed that impact the population, but the disturbance of nesting behavior from more encounters with man. It is well known hens are prone to abandon nest after one flush from the nest. Shane's rebuttal of my post was that the harvest or hunting on public land does not have a significant impact on local populations and to think so is ridiculous. Well I don't have the science to support either stance, so that is just a difference of opinion. I'm ok with that and I hope he is too.
what we saw happen when turkeys were reintroduced was an explosion of birds to fill a void that was unoccupied. Wildlife tendencies are to over populate and expand. Once saturation occurs then the population reseeds to a carrying capacity that is historically sustainable. This is what we are seeing in many places and does not alarm biologist. It's when we see populations fall below estimated or historic Carrying capacity that alarms go off. This is happening in some area. The blame is yet to be determined.
As to increased hunting pressure and it's impact. I think it comes down to aesthetic values, for the most part. We don't like sharing our personal space. We hunt for the value of the hunt and also for success. Increased pressure devalues both of these. The quality of the personal experience is lessened. What does it actually do to populations? Here is my opinion: Scientifically it probably is a low value impact. the birds can simply move away from pressure for a while. The more significant impact is localized in lost gobblers to hunt and disturbed nesting. I also believe that the attitude of take all I can get because it doesn't matter in the big picture is a poor approach. This is my biggest beef with the video guys. You roll in get your video footage and leave for the next place. I get the feeling there is not much concern for what is left behind. The people who live and rely on these local spots are often devastated by unconcern to keep locations unknown. Not to the same extent, but it kind of like the Buffalo hunters of the pioneer west....they rolled in and killed off a whole heard and the poor Indian's livelihood was devastated. I remember seeing a picture of an Indian overlooking a killing field and tears running down his cheek.
What I say to the video producers is have some heart for those who's home ground you visit. We enjoy your work and realize it's what you do to put food on the table, but do it with some thought and consideration for those you leave behind. You really don't want to be thought of as the guys who raped my land.
Quote from: eggshell on February 13, 2021, 10:31:52 AM
Well I don't have the science to support either stance, so that is just a difference of opinion. I'm ok with that and I hope he is too.
I also believe that the attitude of take all I can get because it doesn't matter in the big picture is a poor approach. This is my biggest beef with the video guys. You roll in get your video footage and leave for the next place. I get the feeling there is not much concern for what is left behind.
Yes, I'm okay with anyone's opinion even if I don't agree with it.
I can't speak for the others but I'm usually a one and done guy when I travel to different states. Even if a state allows for multiple birds to be harvested, once I kill just one, I'm happy and in most cases, I head home with unused tags and days remaining to hunt. I just enjoy traveling and seeing different areas of the country as much as I enjoy turkey hunting.
Quote from: simpzenith on February 13, 2021, 10:02:35 AM
Quote from: arkrem870 on February 13, 2021, 09:53:42 AM
Living in arkansas and seeing what social media/YouTube has done to our public duck hunting is sickening. Now we are doing it to turkeys hunting as well.....
Based on the number of Arkansas hunters I run into while hunting other states, I'd say that they are single handedly responsible for the turkey decline. :TooFunny:
One great thing about all this discussion, is that we can always blame it on Arkansas hunters. :TooFunny:
Very good Thread here, I have been following.
Quote from: catman529 on February 13, 2021, 10:26:50 AM
Quote from: deerhunt1988 on February 13, 2021, 10:01:05 AM
Dave and THP have a much greater outreach than this forum now.
And they both said they were hunting Mississippi.
All these posts here show up on Google searches. It doesn't take but a minute to find out where everyone's talking about in this thread. Doesn't make much sense complaining about someone who makes videos while posting all the intel on a public forum that is crawled by search engines... one of the first things I do when I want to turkey hunt another state is pop a few google searches, and topics like this come up. That would tell me all I needed to know about the local turkey population. I wouldn't even have to watch a video to find out, Google is faster.
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That's very true catman and I wish people wouldn't post any kind of information about specific areas. On the other hand I have witnessed one of your videos directly influence an area where I hunt. It's actually a spot where I killed my first turkey. It used to be an over looked spot, I could go there just about any time and not see a truck there. The year after you made a video there showing a field "in an area where there's not many fields at all" people started showing up. I'm sure it will be a circus this year after the videos of you and devin. Btw unless y'all asked for landowners permission, y'all were bicycling all through private land. That forest road is not on a motor vehicle use map. Technically that road ends a few hundred yards from the gate because of private property.
I hope " The Hunting Pubic" does not pick my main Public areas this Spring.
It's taken a few years but people are finally getting sick and tired of having the public areas they hunt blasted for pennies on the dollar (speaking in regards to the monetization rates on YouTube)
I realize this is a harsh thing to say, but this discussion/thread needed to be had.
It's one thing to help another hunter out via PM, it's a whole different animal to give up the ghost for the masses to see.
Quote from: silent tom on February 13, 2021, 02:10:28 PM
It's taken a few years but people are finally getting sick and tired of having the public areas they hunt blasted for pennies on the dollar (speaking in regards to the monetization rates on YouTube)
I realize this is a harsh thing to say, but this discussion/thread needed to be had.
It's one thing to help another hunter out via PM, it's a whole different animal to give up the ghost for the masses to see.
You are exactly right. Some people want to say they can do what they want because it's public land. I don't go into public restrooms and crap all in the floor and sinks just because it's public. If someone's actions affect other users in a negative way it's not right and that's exactly what's going on. All to make a dollar.
Quote from: quavers59 on February 13, 2021, 01:20:41 PM
I hope " The Hunting Pubic" does not pick my main Public areas this Spring.
It'll be forever changed if they do. Every year these dudes screw another group of spots for people. I've seen it first hand. Loose lips sink ships.
Three things I learned a long time ago
1. If your banging best looking girl at school dont tell anyone if you want to keep getting it.
2. If your making easy money you'd better keep it quiet or somebody will undercut you
3. If your catching crappie / killing big deer / ducks/ turkeys etc keep it quiet or you'll have company.
Quote from: simpzenith on February 13, 2021, 10:02:35 AM
Quote from: arkrem870 on February 13, 2021, 09:53:42 AM
Living in arkansas and seeing what social media/YouTube has done to our public duck hunting is sickening. Now we are doing it to turkeys hunting as well.....
Based on the number of Arkansas hunters I run into while hunting other states, I'd say that they are single handedly responsible for the turkey decline. :TooFunny:
Right?! When I lived in the Black Hills I'd honestly rarely see residents hunting turkeys, but the amount of Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana, and Georgia plates I seen there was astounding. 20:1 ratio nonres to resident. Easily. Wonder how many got on Facebook and this forum to brag over the years???? Hmmmmm????
Shane you're good in my book! Keep on keeping on! Just stay out of my prairie spots! Ha!
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Quote from: Kyle_Ott on February 13, 2021, 08:56:23 AM
Quote from: silent tom on February 13, 2021, 06:52:51 AM
THP showed a fan coming up to them at a gas station one morning. Just to prove a point, I told a buddy, give me 30 minutes and I'll tell you where they are. Using google street view, Took about 10 before I figured it out. Guess what, they were right next to a piece of public, where they were showing gobbling birds.
Same can be said for guys talking about a distance from an airport, city, etc. all it takes is showing an exit sign and people can hone in.
If you guys think these YouTube hunters aren't putting a lot more people in these areas they publicize, you are dead wrong.
Once you see an area(s) bombarded with people after someone puts a video out there, your attitude tends to change...
buddy of mine sent a podcast about Dave Owens talking about how bad the pressure on south FL public has became. Why do you think that is ???
Dave has single handedly changed the dynamics of hunting on Big Cypress and he will continue to kill turkeys there despite the pressure because he is tenacious and talented. A close industry friend of mine who hunted down there last year was told by the ranger there was a 400% increase in the number of people who hunted a particular area on opening weekend compared to opening weekends in the past.
Everybody found out that THP was on Bienville last year and it's now the number one draw application WMA in the state of Mississippi. Everybody knows that Dave hunts Homochitto; ask a local how enjoyable things are down there from a pressure perspective.
There are countless locals who have had Youtubers visit their local public hunting spots only to deal with the masses who descend afterwards. The reality is, the average turkey hunter doesn't have the disposable income or the vacation time to travel all over the country and they have to deal with the consequences of exposure once it happens.
The majority of the United States now has a decreasing turkey population despite the fact that turkey hunter numbers are increasing. There are still plenty of places a guy can go and hear turkeys gobble, BUT the reality is most of those places were considerably better 5,10 and 15 years ago.
Most people have not travelled extensively enough or long enough to have any perspective on this. I started hunting out of stated in 2003. There is something impactfully saddening about visiting a piece of public land where gobbling turkeys were abundant 15 years ago to see it over run with trucks. If you've never experienced it, I'm happy for you. But no one can tell me it's better for the turkeys. As far as I'm concerned, until we start shortening season lengths and reducing bag limits, the turkeys don't need additional hunter recruitment and they sure don't need Youtubers broadcasting where you can get unlimited OTC tags to kill turkeys until your trigger finger is broken or your conscience finally catches up to you.
To be clear, I don't have any fundamental problems with videoed turkey hunting. I've consumed thousands of hours of it from the earliest Truth series videos, to Cutt'n and Strutt'n to Youtube. But for the life of me, I do not understand why the YouTube crowd feels compelled to disclose what state and/or region they are hunting when it comes to public land. It's unnecessary and it's the the root of the problem but they continue to do it.
My opinions are not popular among the fanboys and everyone promoting inclusion these days but they are formulated based on a lot of personal experience and quantifiable data (harvest numbers, population data, etc). Turkey hunting is more fun with more gobbling turkeys in the woods. Despite the fact that it's rewarding, it's considerably less fun when you have to walk 15 miles in a day to find one. My kid can participate in plenty of activities that provide more immediate rewards and satisfaction than turkey hunting on public land offers a kid these days. The better hunting is on private land and you're going to continue to see lease prices escalate as those with $$$ become more willing to pay absurd prices to avoid the public land rat race.
Goodluck this spring.
And for the ones who didn't know or figure out where those guys hunt, you let them know now in direct wording
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Quote from: simpzenith on February 13, 2021, 10:49:54 AM
I can't speak for the others but I'm usually a one and done guy when I travel to different states. Even if a state allows for multiple birds to be harvested, once I kill just one, I'm happy and in most cases, I head home with unused tags and days remaining to hunt. I just enjoy traveling and seeing different areas of the country as much as I enjoy turkey hunting.
This should be the attitude of all traveling turkey hunters. Folks need to get away from the attitude that "the limit is X, so I gotta kill X to prove I have the big, red, turkey-huntin "S" on my chest!"
Someone here on OG said a while back that the limit for nonresidents in every state should be one. I'm beginning to think that would be a great idea! ;D
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 13, 2021, 06:16:29 PM
Quote from: simpzenith on February 13, 2021, 10:49:54 AM
I can't speak for the others but I'm usually a one and done guy when I travel to different states. Even if a state allows for multiple birds to be harvested, once I kill just one, I'm happy and in most cases, I head home with unused tags and days remaining to hunt. I just enjoy traveling and seeing different areas of the country as much as I enjoy turkey hunting.
This should be the attitude of all traveling turkey hunters. Folks need to get away from the attitude that "the limit is X, so I gotta kill X to prove I have the big, red, turkey-huntin "S" on my chest!"
Someone here on OG said a while back that the limit for nonresidents in every state should be one. I'm beginning to think that would be a great idea! ;D
Gobblenut....that's actually a great idea!! Like Shane I also take that approach and also to leave the woods better than I found them which is unfortunately a dying lesson that was passed on to me but I can assure ya my boys know it well! I carry pockets full of trash out it seems every trip. Same way as ensuring I'm taking a clean ethical shot to kill the bird which in my opinion they deserve no less! God bless
I see and personally know several young hunters who are just learning the ropes of chasing gobblers . These guys worship the Pinhoti guy , and the other you tubers , they dress like em , act like em , smoke nasty —- cigars like em ,lol etc . They are traveling like em also . Has social media, and you tube added more hunters in the timber ? Dang right it has , make no mistake !
But , there's tons of other things out there in this world we live in today that these young guys could be getting into instead of chasing gobblers all over the place ! Tons of really terrible things !! So if there's a positive thing ?? I'd rather see em be parked in one of my " honey " holes , then be parked in jail !
Or even worse ,. Become young democratic types ! Lol .
Been thinking about that one bird limit on non-residents and thought of a question. Do you think it would detour people away from traveling to hunt? I wonder if many would feel they were getting ripped off when they already pay at least 2-3 times more than residents to hunt, in many cases for only 2-3 days. The other caveat is, unless many states done it the others would suffer as hunters would move to the states with higher limits. My experience is most don't kill a limit, but they want the opportunity to hunt. Myself, I would be very disappointed if I spent hundreds of dollars and killed a bird in the first hour of a three day hunt. I actually done this in Florida. We arrived the afternoon before our hunt and the outfitter offered to let us hunt a plot that had been hunted pretty hard already for fun. Well we doubled up on a couple long beards within the first hour that evening. So there the two of us sat for three days, he only allowed one bird, twittling our thumbs and trying to find something to do. One of the guides did take us to an orange grove to hunts nuisance hogs, that was ok, but we traveled and paid big bucks to turkey hunt. In most cases I would be ok with one bird, but I also see the point it is terribly unfair to penalize a hunter by charging a big price then double penalize him for living somewhere else. I think I would vote to make the limit the same for everyone and leave the choice up to the hunter. I just don't like the thought I'm being punished for who I am or where I live? How many would travel to a state if they said you can call and take pictures, but you can't shoot one....probably no one? We pay to hunt. For once I think I disagree with old Gobblenut. I have made many out of state trips and killed zero, but I had a great time hunting. Most years i only kill one out of state gobbler, but many years I kill my limit too. I will have to think on this more.
i don't begrudge anyone traveling all over the country killing a dozen turkey and dozen deer a year, but it's kinda shitty they publicize the places and then also benefit monetarily from it
i'm content to hunt the state i live in. keeps me plenty busy/fed. let people in other states have at their own opportunities. wish they'd respect mine
Quote from: eggshell on February 14, 2021, 08:18:30 AM
Been thinking about that one bird limit on non-residents and thought of a question. Do you think it would detour people away from traveling to hunt? I wonder if many would feel they were getting ripped off when they already pay at least 2-3 times more than residents to hunt, in many cases for only 2-3 days. The other caveat is, unless many states done it the others would suffer as hunters would move to the states with higher limits. My experience is most don't kill a limit, but they want the opportunity to hunt. Myself, I would be very disappointed if I spent hundreds of dollars and killed a bird in the first hour of a three day hunt. I actually done this in Florida. We arrived the afternoon before our hunt and the outfitter offered to let us hunt a plot that had been hunted pretty hard already for fun. Well we doubled up on a couple long beards within the first hour that evening. So there the two of us sat for three days, he only allowed one bird, twittling our thumbs and trying to find something to do. One of the guides did take us to an orange grove to hunts nuisance hogs, that was ok, but we traveled and paid big bucks to turkey hunt. In most cases I would be ok with one bird, but I also see the point it is terribly unfair to penalize a hunter by charging a big price then double penalize him for living somewhere else. I think I would vote to make the limit the same for everyone and leave the choice up to the hunter. I just don't like the thought I'm being punished for who I am or where I live? How many would travel to a state if they said you can call and take pictures, but you can't shoot one....probably no one? We pay to hunt. For once I think I disagree with old Gobblenut. I have made many out of state trips and killed zero, but I had a great time hunting. Most years i only kill one out of state gobbler, but many years I kill my limit too. I will have to think on this more.
Eggshell, your point here is the flipside of the suggestion to consider a one-bird limit for nonresidents (wasn't really my idea to begin with, I just saw it stated by someone else and thought it had some merit),...and I agree that it would present some real inconvenience in certain circumstances like the one you describe.
However, we are discussing ways to decrease hunting pressure and harvest in places that appear to need that. If too many hunters concentrating in certain places,...and too many gobblers being taken out of the population in those areas,...is indeed a problem, then making those places less desirable for hunters to flock to is one way to achieve that goal.
My general comment about a one-bird nonresident limit in every state was admittedly too general. There are many places where having a two-bird limit (one a day) would be just dandy,...for the time being. This is not a "one size fits all" suggestion. It is just a suggestion that could (and most likely should) be applied in certain areas of the country.
These are just my personal thoughts and by no means a slight towards others.
I can legally kill 4 gobblers in the 2 states I hunt. My boy can also kill 4. That is 8 gobblers total if have counted the correct amount of fingers. I have plenty to entertain me in the 5 week season not counting others I help. So If I would be looking at another state I would be perfectly content to pay a 100 or 150 overall price tag for 1 turkey. Provided that a certain percentage went directly to wild turkey management. I know this would cause much weeping and outrage but I would also be all for a national bag limit of 6-8 birds total. Deer hunting turned into a horn worshiping crap show and turkey hunting is turning into a #'s game. I am not a fan of either. And just to be fair I haven't limited out in several years due to our populations taking a bit of a hit. Rather save a few and get to hunt all year then tag out and be done.
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I started out hunting on public land in 1980 and started to travel out of state hunting on public land around 1990. When I started traveling to hunt you had to get the road maps to get you where you wanted to go, you had to obtain the topo maps of your hunting area, and you had to know how to use a map and compass. We now have mapping apps that will take you to your destination and topo maps with GPS on our phones. I think this has emboldened more people to travel out of state and to walk further from their truck than they ever would have before. Most people used to stay closer to the roads they walked in on for fear of getting lost. Now they just drop a pin at their truck and their fear is gone. I think the YouTubers might have gotten them interested in the first place, but it takes a lot less effort to plan trips nowadays than ever before. You used to have to write or call to speak to the state turkey biologist to get recommendations on where to go. Research and obtaining maps used to take 3 months, now you just "Google" it, and see where your favorite internet hero is hunting.
You can figure out where to go now in 3 days, or have your friend "give you a pin". What used to be a small fraternity of die-hards who couldn't care less about what people thought of them has now been replaced by hunters wanting to post pictures, and seeking likes and thumbs up.
Hard core has been replaced by look at me.
I would be all for a one bird limit in any other state but my own, if thats what it would take to keep hunting out state. But then my entire life (MN) you are only allowed one spring bird in MN, and thats in a seven day hunt. In my begining years turkey hunting it took 2-3 years just to draw a permit to try to hunt one. Thats what made me drive ten hours each years to SD black hills to try to shoot ONE turkey. So everone count your blessing for what you have or had, because times are changing. I am all for a one bird limit in any out of state hunt, and I am a average Joe on a fixed income now, not a lot of money.
It's all good discussion. We all need to think about the wonderful resource we have. I am spoiled with the bounty of all the opportunity we have today. I, of all people, should know this, because I hunted when the season was three days long and if you knew where one gobbling bird was you were lucky. Our flock was pretty much restricted to the area within and around the local state forest. Boy back then a bunch of hunters concentrated would have devastated the whole flock. Now there are birds everywhere around me. Maybe the flocks aren't as big or concentrated as some sates or areas, but we're a long ways from those early years. I bet this is true of most areas. It's not their fault, but the young youtubers have never known anything but the bounty of the flocks we have. Even a declined flock is many times more turkeys than we had in those early years. Our tags back then were all draw tags. I think if we decide we need to limit pressure and reduce kill, that a limited permit system is a better solution. If you truly feel an area has too much non-resident pressure then limit the tags for them and make it a draw. You can't price people out of hunting, they will pay whatever.
Quote from: Jimspur on February 14, 2021, 09:43:13 AM
I started out hunting on public land in 1980 and started to travel out of state hunting on public land around 1990. When I started traveling to hunt you had to get the road maps to get you where you wanted to go, you had to obtain the topo maps of your hunting area, and you had to know how to use a map and compass. We now have mapping apps that will take you to your destination and topo maps with GPS on our phones. I think this has emboldened more people to travel out of state and to walk further from their truck than they ever would have before. Most people used to stay closer to the roads they walked in on for fear of getting lost. Now they just drop a pin at their truck and their fear is gone. I think the YouTubers might have gotten them interested in the first place, but it takes a lot less effort to plan trips nowadays than ever before. You used to have to write or call to speak to the state turkey biologist to get recommendations on where to go. Research and obtaining maps used to take 3 months, now you just "Google" it, and see where your favorite internet hero is hunting.
You can figure out where to go now in 3 days, or have your friend "give you a pin". What used to be a small fraternity of die-hards who couldn't care less about what people thought of them has now been replaced by hunters wanting to post pictures, and seeking likes and thumbs up.
Hard core has been replaced by look at me.
This hits the nail on the head.
I'd bet there's ALOT that hunt today that would quit if social media went away. Once they can't get Internet likes they'd lose interest in the sport.
Soooo many people today are out there to get validation from people they don't even know. It's truly sad.
Have we let society take our feeling of self worth away with handouts to where this is the reaction to the action?
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Lots of good points here. What about having to buy extra tags for non-residents? If you want to shoot more than one, pay for another tag.
As a relatively new turkey hunter now hunting in Georgia, it surprises me to see the amount of backlash against the potential changes to the season here from hunters who have supposedly been hunting them for a long time. The story of the wild turkey restoration is often cited to new hunters and non-hunters as the paramount of the hunter-backed conservation success. Surely some of those so against a season change remember when the number of turkeys in the state numbered about equal to last year's harvest? Anyways, that's a bit off topic, but eggshell's post made me think of it.
For the youtube channels, I have no doubt it increases pressure on areas. Do some turkey's get killed as a result of the pressure? Sure. But probably not as many as the amount of pressure would indicate. Georgia publishes harvest by WMA, and I went to one highly pressured WMA throughout the season that gets mentioned in the occasional article or forum post and has decent harvest numbers every year. There were always a bunch of other vehicles there, but there were also still birds gobbling on the last day. All that is to say that there are other factors that increase pressure too.
On the other hand, I would be upset if one of my spots saw an increase in pressure because of a youtube video. Most of us hunt for more than the kill, and more pressure lessens the overall experience we are after. So, I would recommend to those channels to stop showing us the highway exit montage, stop showing us the pulling up to the forest service gate clip, stop telling us, "we are here in northwest ____." I think the channels generally do a good job, but every now and then things slip. A little more time spent thinking about it could go a long way.
To me, if the channel shows ethical and responsible hunting on public land and takes care not to name drop, that's a good thing. There are too many channels that are all about "well me an' bo got out here today real tough hunt but we got it done that tss really hammers em laid that ol boy out good we got it done." At least the channels mentioned in the thread so far take care to show them turning around when another truck is at the gate, or explaining why they couldn't take a shot across the public/private boundary (I have no idea if they actually do the right thing off camera, but at least they are showing it on camera). I taught myself to hunt, and if I hadn't seen these videos I would not have had someone to tell me, "hey, there's a truck here already lets go on to plan b." If all I had seen were the kill-shot videos, I would probably still be bumbling through the woods behind other hunters spooking turkeys and ruining others' hunts. All I can hope is that other hunters are taking the good things away from watching these videos and not just watching for a sliver of info as to where a turkey might have been killed 3 states away.
Some thoughts from a youtube-generation hunter.
Very good post above- Extendo Clip!
And just to think, I remember when Catman first came to this very forum and posted a video he recorded himself. Also remember everyone was impressed with his desire and passion. It was awesome, to me then and still is today.
Have a good one
Ray
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extended clip, Here in Ohio we all buy our tags separately, if you want to kill two gobblers you pay for two tags, but you can buy them separately day to day. That is resident and non-resident alike, but the non-resident pays more for a hunting license. I have seen guys kill one and stop because they don't want to spend more money.If they have hunted a couple days and about ready to go home they opt out, but if they kill one in the 1st hr of the 1st day they usually buy another tag. I kind of like this system as you don't throw money away on a tag you may never get to use. Buy one and see how your hunt goes, then buy another if you tag one.
Quote from: eggshell on February 14, 2021, 03:04:46 PM
extended clip, Here in Ohio we all buy our tags separately, if you want to kill two gobblers you pay for two tags, but you can buy them separately day to day. That is resident and non-resident alike, but the non-resident pays more for a hunting license. I have seen guys kill one and stop because they don't want to spend more money.If they have hunted a couple days and about ready to go home they opt out, but if they kill one in the 1st hr of the 1st day they usually buy another tag. I kind of like this system as you don't throw money away on a tag you may never get to use. Buy one and see how your hunt goes, then buy another if you tag one.
That's the system I was thinking of. I knew some states did it that way but wasn't sure which ones.
I like the way Pennsylvania does it. If you want to buy a second tag you have to buy it before the season starts.
That way the state gets the money whether you kill one or not, and if you decide to go there after the season starts you can only kill one.
Quote from: Jimspur on February 14, 2021, 05:10:56 PM
I like the way Pennsylvania does it. If you want to buy a second tag you have to buy it before the season starts.
That way the state gets the money whether you kill one or not, and if you decide to go there after the season starts you can only kill one.
Yeah. I'm a pennsylvania resident and have to buy the bonus tag prior to the season opener.
I have no problem with the rule.
I didn't read all the posts and I see it's a year old but it's still a valid point. Guys need to stop advertising exactly where. That's pretty obvious
I haven't visited the forum in a good long while. I intend to make this post and will most likely not return for another good long spell, simply due to it being a couple weeks until "kick-off" and my plate is rather full. That being said I thought a few things were worth mentioning. . .
There are specifics mentioned in this thread that have never publicly been disclosed (until now) and what's even more comical? A few of those specifics are incorrect. I suppose this is a testament to my elusiveness through video. :toothy9: Also proves something I'll hit on in just a bit about people listening to talk rather than gaining the experience to "ground truth" the claims.
Secondly, I find it interesting that several critics of YouTube hunters received their "schooling" from forums such as this one. One in particular even reached out to me wanting to help/ contribute/ come along before I explained this "thing" I was doing was just a guy with a video camera. There wasn't going to be a "prostaff" or teams for collecting content. Heck, I expected the curtains to pull shut at any minute (and still do). YouTube is the new (and admittedly more efficient) hunting forum. It's almost like you wanted to read the instructions and then burn them for those that followed. Why? Wouldn't it be great if the newest generation of turkey hunters that we were entering the timber alongside us had been exposed to hunting that illustrated sound ethics, respect for their quarry and at least some basic "know how?" Its easy to forget but remember, we all had to start somewhere.
Further, many of the critics listen too much but fail to experience enough. Has the YouTube crowd just become another "out" for those that define success as blood and feathers? The "he's henned up" excuse kind of went out the window with the new tools that have been introduced I suppose. Did someone/ something have to become the newest whippin' post? Example in point, Big Cypress, the place is enormous and has always been a zoo, it will always be a zoo. If you watch a video and drive down there in 3 weeks with your shotgun, chances are you're going to have difficulty even accessing the place. My point being, one must prove diligent in hunting those type areas regardless of what motivated them to do so. If someone watched a video and in fact put forth that effort, traveled to sunny south Florida and killed a gobbler then :happy0064: It would appear the content reached the target audience and performed as intended. I think providing motivation to achieve bucket list items (for many folks) is a wonderful thing and I will not apologize for it. Several critics take the word of others as gospel rather than having experiences to give their claims any validity. They didn't hunt the areas before YouTube and they haven't hunted the areas since YouTube yet their opinion still hold the same "water" when spewed across platforms such as these for the world to read. That "world" then formulates their own, now skewed, opinions because if it's on the internet it must be true, right?
I could go on about the irony but for times sake I'll end that portion of the show.
Continuing. . .
Are there problems created from this YouTube era? Coming from one of those contributing. . . absolutely.
Creators have a responsibility to protect the areas they choose to visit. I inspect my videos with utmost detail and would like to think only locals would be able to recognize. Locals are already providing pressure, nothing new there. I'm constantly amazed by many of those locals who reply to videos or posts with "oh I know where y'all are, that's over at ____, or my favorite "I saw ___ truck at ___ WMA last week." I am not sure how to combat that.
One of my biggest issues? Social media as a whole has motivated a small number to strive for "kill counts" and become nothing more than murders. That disgusts me. Is this to gain some type of validity? I'm unsure. Would this have happened without THP, Pinhoti, Catman? Most likely, social media wasn't going anywhere. But, I dislike knowing I may be been some type of contributor even in the smallest way. After being asked countless times, I have NEVER mentioned a kill number and never will. It's not important. I have always stressed the significance of the battle and not the death. Respect will always be a main ingredient of my content. Talking about kill numbers flies directly in the face of that (my opinion).
And in conclusion because this has gone on WAY too long and I need to get to bed. I am a firm believer that if brands such as myself are not giving back to the resource more than we are taking from it then we have ultimately failed. In a time of population declines, if we aren't using our platforms to motivate hunters to help the wild turkey with things such as predator management, habitat improvements, involvement in public input, understanding regulation proposals among many other things then we have failed. If creators aren't portraying hunting in a positive light and rather making it distasteful to nonhunters, we have failed. If creators aren't using their platforms to highlight non-profits and the miracles possible through assisting the less fortunate, then we have failed. This is where viewers should be holding brands/ creators accountable. Not crying because someone pulled up to you at "your" gate - BUT WAIT- if they're a loyal follower, they'll most likely turn around to find plan B. ;)
Best of Luck to you guys this Spring. And for those of you that can stomach the Pinhoti Project content- my sincerest :thanks:
Pinhoti opened my eyes to whole different aspect of my favorite thing to do. I always hung up the boots after local season. I watched season 1 on Pinhoti Project the year it was released and have not missed an episode yet. It made me realize that traveling to turkey hunt was something I could do and had never given it much thought.
I have now been to several states that I would have probably not visited and had some of the best trips of my life. I can't thank Dave enough.
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Cove,
do you care to share a link to your work or a name, is it the Pinhoti Project ? I'd like to view your work and see for myself the quality. As with most things there are those who do it right and those who don't, we hope that most do, but social media does not have a quality filter and is way too easy to pass off crap. I don't know how to fix it, so I guess I just resort to complaining enough that it gets attention. whether you are pissed at all the comments or not, one thing is true, the thread got at least two video producers to join in and defend their field. I think that is a good thing, because maybe you'll be thinking about some of this discussion as you film this year and if that means you'll put a little more thought into the content you produce then we have succeeded. I worked a lot of years in the public field and I learned very early that I had to have Rhino skin. I have been called everything imaginable and blamed for more than I can imagine, all while trying to do my very best to make the resource better for the very person degrading me. Yes, I got pissed at times, but it always made me look harder at what I was doing. The fact you and Shane cared enough to engage us speaks well of both. Good luck to you as well
I have watched some Turkey Videos of most of these guys- catman,pinhoti project,The Hunting Public, Shane Simpson,O.F. Mossberg + Sons, Dale Outdoors,etc.
Probably the worst video,I have ever seen was - O.F. Mossberg + Sons- Greatest Mistake Of Calling Hens.
Personally, I have called in plenty of Tom's with Clucks + Purrs. I don't get how Clucks + Purrs are counterproductive.
I think that all these Guys should not use the camera while driving and nearing their Turkey hunting area. I keep trying to figure out where they are.
As far as the Turkey Educational Videos out there,I think Dale Outdoors- Matt Dale is Tops.
What,I have learned though that just like the original- Candid Camera Series where at the end they say- We Might Be In Your Town Next..
Anyway,I have Hiked extensively probably 30 miles in all directions around where,I live. So far,I have not seen any familiar Hardwoods,etc- but Spring is coming on the Public Lands soon
Dave- it's real simple. They hate you, because they ain't you.
Keep up the good work and as you say limit the info on where you are hunting best you can. I've been hunting for over 20 years and enjoy the heck out of your videos cause of the respect for turkeys and lessons you are teaching. I've also learned a few things as well.
For those that are complaining about public land- it's always one thing or another to blame for why it's gone downhill or more crowded. I grew up hunting bayou meto for ducks here in Arkansas. Probably the most popular public hunting area you will find anywhere. The bitching has always been there, it just changes over time as to what is being bitched about. The problem lies in the fact that public land is a limited resource and we have lots of hunters vying for that resource. There is no good answer to solve that problem. Be respectful and hunt hard is the best approach.
Great words, Dave.
Thanks for taking the time to write such a lengthy comment, Dave (cove). Anybody that watches your videos and your corresponding demeanor about all of this stuff was already aware of most of your thoughts and positions. You (and others that approach this thing we call spring gobbler hunting the same way you do) have nothing to apologize for or need to defend what you do.
There is little doubt that the advent of the internet, in general, and YouTube specifically has resulted in an enormous increase in interest in turkey hunting both in-state and out. Fact is, that was going to happen eventually, one way or the other. Those of us that are turkey hunters, and spring gobbler hunters in particular, don't do this because we have an opening in our schedules on Saturday morning and need to fill it with something. We do this because of the overwhelming passion we have for this great game bird and the joy it brings to us in pursuing it. We are going to find a way, and a place, to do that regardless of all else.
Finding that way and place is simply a matter of making it a priority in our lives rather than an afterthought. "It is what it is" as the saying goes. As others have stated, if anyone wants to hunt turkeys (or anything else for that matter), they have to take the initiative and adapt or they will get to "walk behind the horses in the parade".
Ahhh, so I am assuming that was Dave with pinhoti, I had no idea. I guess that says something about me and how much or little I watch turkey hunting videos. Most of what I know is from negative interaction in the field. I did go and watch a couple of his videos, well parts of them. I can never finish one without jumping around, I just get bored watching them. I did see some that was instructional on topics like handling a bird and was glad to see that. Most videos unfold the same way and I just get tired of them. It's not the guys fault at all, there's only so much you can show. Does video guys ever comment on what call they are using and why or what they are looking at as they make set ups? I will say I did not see much that would give away defined locations in the videos I watched, but I agree with the comment, "limit the driving road shots". All in all it's not an all a bad thing that people learn to travel and hunt from these videos. I have benefited myself, yet it is important to respect where you are and the "locals" so to speak. When I travel I always engage locals and respect them. I have been shocked how many times a local guy has put me on birds. It all comes down to being respectful and humble. I will help people I come across in my area if they come off as respectful and considerate. I want everyone to enjoy the hunt.
What I saw in the couple pinhoti videos is guys hunting like I hunt and not just kill shots, I like that. You can learn from just watching them for sure. As I said almost all my past interactions were negative and soured me. I saw a lot of these guys through my work and 20 years ago most were self righteous Butt heads that I saw. They used people and took advantage of the sport to make money and build self image. There does seem to be a new breed that wants to simply share the great adventure of the hunt. I give those who do it right kudos, lets hope some of the bad ones learn to follow suite. The best way to beat the bad productions is not to watch, when they lose views they will fade away, hopefully.
See discussion is a good thing. Even old bitter arse old men can learn
Another thing that comes to my mind regarding all this discussion about the impacts of traveling turkey hunters is the question of how many of us are actually doing it to anywhere near the extent that a few of the YouTube guys are?
I mean, I love to turkey hunt and I try to get to another state or two each spring to do it. However, I can tell you that if I even considered taking the amount of time away from home, and dollars it takes, to hop from state to state each spring to hunt, I would have had the divorce papers handed to me long ago. :o ;D
I didn't know Cove was Dave but glad I do now because of the very few video I do watch it is ether the Pintoti Project or Shane's video's. I don't have a lot of time to spend on the computer, so can watch video's or read Post on OLD GOBBLER, and OLD GOBBLERS wins out all the time. Just wanted to pass a little information and thoughts on some of them Guys. I don't remember what year it was but I met Shane many years back before this YOUTUBE thing had even really started. Shane had just moved from South Carolina to Minnesota. Not sure where it was, but I seen a post, him asking people in MN that had turkey license if he could come along and join them just to be in the woods. I told him I would be hunting in a few days in the norther part of the state some three hrours from him in a few days, and if he wanted he could come join me. He filmed my hunt that day, it was some of the first films he started to post.. I just want to say Shane started doing the filming stuff because he loved turkey hunting so much and just wanted to share it with everyone. And I still watch Shanes video today because he is trying to teach you things , just like the Pintoti Project dose. I just moved more to the Pintoti Project because Dave didn't use decoys and Shane dose more often. The thing I learned was, I didn't realize You didn't need to use decoys and still could be very successful. I know that a few of the guys are Now being extra careful not to let out there locations. But the problem will ALWAYS persist from now on, because of new film crews trying to get into the business. So Dave and Shane, just keep up what you are doing so the new turkey hunter: and filmer's have a good standard to TRY following.
Quote from: PaytonWP on April 11, 2020, 11:53:38 AM
First I would like to say that I have no problem with people videoing hunts and posting them to YouTube. Honestly I find it almost necessary to recruit new hunters into the sport. Commercialized hunting has gotten so far away from the general public, I couldn't imagine being a new hunter and trying to decipher through all the needless bs that gets pushed in every episode. With that said, I believe there is a right and wrong way to do things. Some of these YouTube channels are posting way to much information about their locations. What's wrong with just saying what state your in and leaving it at that? The hunting public has gotten horrible about it. They constantly video needless scenes to almost purposely hint where they are. One recent video even showed the freaking gate number. Them along with others will also post pictures of topos of the actual spots for no other reason than to get paid by OnX. The closer they get back to their home area though the more candid they become. In their quest to recruit new hunters, if that's even what their mission is anymore, they are forgetting about the local guys that are already fighting the fight. They are forgetting about the working dads that only have weekends to try and get their kid on a bird or deer. They are forgetting about the locals that don't have the money or time to drive 2 hours away because their closest wma has been over run by internet scouters. I can't help but get irritated when I see things like this on their videos. To me Dave Owens is the about the only one that does it right. He doesn't video many needless scenes to show where he is, you see him in the woods and that's about it. I myself don't have any children and my off time from my job lets me drive all over my state to hunt. This doesn't really affect me right now but I'm sure it is affecting other people and in time will only get worse.
Agreed. I recently moved out of FLA. When I was there, I could only afford to hunt public land due to the outfitters gobbling up the private land and running up the prices. Wealthy businessmen were the only ones who could afford to compete with the outfitters.
The average Joes like me were left with the WMA scraps off the table. It took years of trial and error to find out what WMA's were worth hunting and where to hunt on them. So it used to seriously aggravate me when people would post up on the Internet about what WMA they had a great hunt at, or some outdoor writer did the same thing in a magazine. The Cyberscouters would then pull up the WMA on satellite and set about scouting courtesy of the www intel they just received without spending a penny or setting foot in the woods.
I used to hunt a WMA that butted up to a private ranch that was loaded with gobblers. To get to that spot required driving to the back side of the WMA, and then a 30 minute bicycle ride through the woods. Killed many a bird there back in the day. Then with the advent of Google Earth, combined with a magazine article talking up the place, the Cyberscouters descended on the WMA, and of course found the honeyhole that only a half dozen hunters knew about previously. Game over.
Fortunately, I no longer have to rely on FLA WMA's to kill my birds.
Sent from deep in the woods where the critters roam.
QuoteI mean, I love to turkey hunt and I try to get to another state or two each spring to do it. However, I can tell you that if I even considered taking the amount of time away from home, and dollars it takes, to hop from state to state each spring to hunt, I would have had the divorce papers handed to me long ago.
I literally laughed out load Gobblenut. I am right there with ya, the most I ever done was three states in one year and that was our grand slam hunts.
You never know if your gone too long another gobbler might venture into your strutt zone.
Most years it's home in Ohio and then Kentucky where I have family and friends with private, but still hunt a lot of public. I have in separate years ventured to NY, Montana, VA., West Va, Oklahoma and one single trip to Florida and almost all these were private. Through my work I made connections with a lot of people in other states and most of those hunts were from invites. One of these days I will hunt South Dakota as my daughter lives there and my buddy has friends with land in the Black Hills. They invite me every year but I've never done it.
To stay on topic, I don't think I ever used a video to choose a hunting location. Mainly because almost every time I had local connections. Even now, I don't think I would. I'm not into following others around. A long time ago an old sage told me he'd rather only find one single bird and have him to himself than find 10 birds and compete with 10 guys. The same thing has always happened it just happens faster now. Years ago we all cursed magazine writers for articles. I once had a prime pheasant spot on an isolated public piece, that was rarely hunted. One year I pull in on opening morning and there are 3 vehicles and at least one out of state. I asked the out of state guy how he found it and he pulls an outdoor magazine from his truck. I just snarled and cussed a little bit, then invited him to come along with me. He didn't even have a dog and I had the best pheasant dog in the whole region. I thought just as well keep him close, it wasn't his fault. I put him in position on the first few birds and limited his butt out and sent him home happy. Then I went hunting LOL.
One thing more that contributes to all the ill feelings is that available ground is shrinking every year. Many that hunted private have only public left as land is sold, leased or developed. When I was young you could go anywhere and hardly ever have someone run you off. Then land owners started posting more and more land. The younger generations aren't as generous. I really don't think it was from problems as much as the changing social structure of "me first generation". Just like my home farm, my sister and her husband took over it and the first day he posted it and even told me I couldn't hunt...well that didn't fly.
To put it simply, think the decline in turkey population is the biggest issue concerning public land hunting and we all as hunters need to come together to address that concern. There is always going to be pressure on public land and we will continue to point the finger saying, " that or this is the reason". You just have to be willing to out work the other guy. I'll tip my hat to the Pinhoti Project, THP and Shane for having that drive and showing it. To start the day well before daylight and end well after sunset for days at a time. The only difference is that they are doing it on Youtube where in time past Will and Cuz, Knight & Hale, and The Drury's showed it on VHS or even earlier the outdoor writers in article & books. Understand it is already hard enough to kill a spring gobbler, and you don't want or need any extra problems. However, we just need to work harder and "embrace the suck" on our jury, and lead by example.
As CuttinAR has started about duck hunting in Bayou Meto. Heck, that is where I learned to duck hunt. That is where my son cut his teeth and raised up duck hunting. Hunting pressure is just part of the hunt. However, we all need to hunt as "sportsman".
I have watched THP. I find them entertaining. I think I have seen one or two of Pinhotti. Who is Shane? What is his name on you-space-agram-tube? LOL.
It is entertainment. That is why I watch. It is better than watching some schmuck scream "SMACKDOWN" or some other stupid crap on the Outdoor Channel. There are fishing shows I will watch too, but not many. I don't think I have ever tuned in to "learn" anything, although, being an open minded person that does not think I know everything, I can probably learn something from every show I have watched. I don't watch much TV, don't go out drinking all weekend, so sitting in front of the computer and watching an outdoor video can be a pleasant diversion on a rainy or cold day.
I do not really understand the concept of making money off of one's avocation. I have a vocation for $$$$$ that I love. But I am fortunate, not everyone does. It is just not for me. I would not want to turn something I love into a job. I have had friends become guides (duck, quail hunting and fishing) and end up not really liking to hunt or fish anymore. I have guided a few hunts for charity and I did not like the pressure!
I will keep being entertained and I hope none of them ever show up where I hunt! I am sorry if anyone has given out anyone's else's spots and appreciate those with more discretion.
Jealousy of Dave and youtubers absolutely has 0 to do with it. I enjoyed watching their shows and applouded it before i saw first hand what it was becoming. Everywhere he hunts become the next new hotspot the next season The main problem I have is the new breed of hunter they are spawning. They have create the "all I care about is getting mine" type of hunters. Those type of hunters would stop or drastically cut down their thrill kills if they couldn't post on a social media platform.Those type of hunters are Whats going to bring this whole thing down! Dave knows damn well what he has created and is continuing to create. And don't let Dave be a hypocrite with calling him out for saying its not all about numbers and kills. For example look at what he did in his Wisconsin trip in 2019. How many did yall kill there Dave? Not only did u keep going back and harvesting bird after bird but u also brought in several different people to do the same. Yall know why he did this? VIEWS AND LIKES! Its literally ur job now Dave and ur finances depend it. Its a business to him now people Profit! Dave u can hid behind a cloak of doing it for the love of the hunt or whatever u claim but the simple truth is ur doing it now because u can't stop. Its become to big and as long as u keep making money the hell with everyone else and the most of all to hell with the resources. But hey Dave u got yours though so congrats.
Quote from: Stoeger_bird on February 15, 2021, 01:35:19 PM
Jealousy of Dave and youtubers absolutely has 0 to do with it. I enjoyed watching their shows and applouded it before i saw first hand what it was becoming. Everywhere he hunts become the next new hotspot the next season The main problem I have is the new breed of hunter they are spawning. They have create the "all I care about is getting mine" type of hunters. Those type of hunters would stop or drastically cut down their thrill kills if they couldn't post on a social media platform.Those type of hunters are Whats going to bring this whole thing down! Dave knows damn well what he has created and is continuing to create. And don't let Dave be a hypocrite with calling him out for saying its not all about numbers and kills. For example look at what he did in his Wisconsin trip in 2019. How many did yall kill there Dave? Not only did u keep going back and harvesting bird after bird but u also brought in several different people to do the same. Yall know why he did this? VIEWS AND LIKES! Its literally ur job now Dave and ur finances depend it. Its a business to him now people Profit! Dave u can hid behind a cloak of doing it for the love of the hunt or whatever u claim but the simple truth is ur doing it now because u can't stop. Its become to big and as long as u keep making money the hell with everyone else and the most of all to hell with the resources. But hey Dave u got yours though so congrats.
Could a much simpler explanation be that he was on birds, Wisconsin legally allowed him to continue to buy permits, and hunting and killing turkeys is fun, irrespective of "views and likes?" Your comment contains a lot of baseless conjecture, especially when considering he was hunting that hard long before he started his channel. Pretty strong accusation to make without providing any evidence to support it. Seems much more like you just don't like the guy.
I enjoy the content of most. I do agree it created a culture of have nots trying to become haves and it's doing damage . However ....it's not per say anyone's fault . Everything is becoming that way .... wood working tools are readily available and cheaper than they have ever been now that harbor freight etc.... are all over the country . What started as a guy making cutting boards , turkey calls , etc.... has turned into everybody doing it. This is just another example of the same thing . Its inevitable . I don't like what I'm seeing anymore than anybody else on .... but it's reality. We just got to deal with it. What I'm waiting to see as my states harvest numbers go down year after year how long will it take to change bag limits . Most states don't wait as long as we have .... but my poor ole sovereign state claims they depend on the money .... and they probably do truth be told .
You tubers / facebookers / twitters/ coyotes / skunks / hawks / owls / coons /coonasses / arkies / loggers /
Corn hunters / decoy deployers / tss / Democrats / fire ants / cut overs / reaper fanners / hogs /
And last but not least ,, covid !! Even with all this ,,, I can't wait till it opens so I can get after these unbelievable survival artists!
Quote from: g8rvet on February 15, 2021, 01:32:02 PM
I have watched THP. I find them entertaining. I think I have seen one or two of Pinhotti. Who is Shane? What is his name on you-space-agram-tube? LOL.
Assuming you are serious with the question....
Shane Simpson,...simpzenith on OG,...Calling All turkeys
When I read this thread I get discouraged with people. They believe everything people say w/o checking facts. Then you have people only care about themselves, this is my public spot go find your own. They refuse to help tyros, new people to the sport. They are lazy and wont bother to find a new spot. They say all the toms are henned up and won't learn to call better on their calls. I learned real quick to have plan A, B, C, E, F etc. People tend to feel sorry for themselves. Their PROBLEMS are their own making. Get their the firstest, get the mostest and to hell with everyone else. I mostly hunt with a friend I've known for over forty years. And my Pastor and my brother. Mostly I hunt alone. I have a bad rt foot and can't hike in as far as I used to. So I use the land my calls and my shotgun with the best means and knowledge I can muster and have had some great matches with his majesty the wild turkey. And mostly all my hunting on hard hunting land here in Massachusetts. I just look at maps and find new ways in and also hunt overlooked places people ignore because cars and trucks are parked all over the road but I still find places to safely hunt. The people I find are the same in every sport, and it boils down to selfishness, laziness and because of other people. In closing one reason for declines in population is that in many states the season opens too early and the best toms in the gene pool are taken out of the equation. This equation only has bad results. And maybe these bag limits should be lowered.
I don't mean to be so harsh but read all these posts in these threads.There are a few (threads) thru them you see repeated about my spots, my public land, too many hunters, too many You Tube videos ruining my spots. Its really sad to see this in our ranks. We have men like Dave (Cove) Shane, The Hunting Public, that are the epitome of out Sport, Fair Chase, politeness, unselfishly telling and showing others what works for them. I only see them doing what we all should be doing emulating them. This is only my opinion, and I apologize if I hurt anyone's feelings. I really think this thread is good and cleans up the air in the free exchange of ideas. In closing I really like how the You Tubers help others out with infirmities and getting out their with their help maybe a turkey too. God Bless you all and have a good Spring. May you all hear the 'RATTLE'!
I think that we have about exhausted this topic and like all things it has had it's time.
"When all is said and done"
Definition of when all is said and done -
: after considering or doing everything —used for a final general statement or judgment:
Used in a sentence:
It won't be easy, but when all is said and done, we'll be glad we did it.
The candidates claim to have different views but, when all is said and done, they're very much alike.
Merriam-Webster.com Dictionary, Merriam-Webster, https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/when%20all%20is%20said%20and%20done.
Quote from: Delmar ODonnell on February 15, 2021, 02:27:48 PM
Quote from: Stoeger_bird on February 15, 2021, 01:35:19 PM
Jealousy of Dave and youtubers absolutely has 0 to do with it. I enjoyed watching their shows and applouded it before i saw first hand what it was becoming. Everywhere he hunts become the next new hotspot the next season The main problem I have is the new breed of hunter they are spawning. They have create the "all I care about is getting mine" type of hunters. Those type of hunters would stop or drastically cut down their thrill kills if they couldn't post on a social media platform.Those type of hunters are Whats going to bring this whole thing down! Dave knows damn well what he has created and is continuing to create. And don't let Dave be a hypocrite with calling him out for saying its not all about numbers and kills. For example look at what he did in his Wisconsin trip in 2019. How many did yall kill there Dave? Not only did u keep going back and harvesting bird after bird but u also brought in several different people to do the same. Yall know why he did this? VIEWS AND LIKES! Its literally ur job now Dave and ur finances depend it. Its a business to him now people Profit! Dave u can hid behind a cloak of doing it for the love of the hunt or whatever u claim but the simple truth is ur doing it now because u can't stop. Its become to big and as long as u keep making money the hell with everyone else and the most of all to hell with the resources. But hey Dave u got yours though so congrats.
Could a much simpler explanation be that he was on birds, Wisconsin legally allowed him to continue to buy permits, and hunting and killing turkeys is fun, irrespective of "views and likes?" Your comment contains a lot of baseless conjecture, especially when considering he was hunting that hard long before he started his channel. Pretty strong accusation to make without providing any evidence to support it. Seems much more like you just don't like the guy.
Could a much more interesting series of questions be about trying to understand how a guy ethically justifies shooting 6 or 7 or 8 turkeys(whatever the number was) in one state(even when it's legal)? Like seriously, how does a guy who has literally killed hundreds of turkeys justify smashing that many? Also, how does a guy who cares about the turkeys biologically justify that behavior, either? And I'm damn sure confused how a guy who cares so much about the wild turkey would EVER want to put that on Youtube and feed it to the masses. I could see shooting one or two birds but have you bothered to see what the increase in license sales was in the state of Wisconsin last year?
There are those of us who travel extensively who feel some degree of obligation to the turkeys, the places they live and the locals who hunt them to keep things to ourselves. Sure, we take our picture with our dead turkey but even I have stopped stating where I'm at because people pay attention to things like how quickly a guy kills in a new state. A picture is also a heck of a lot different than capturing the audio and video experience and putting it on Youtube for 60-70k people to consume. Good turkey hunting is sacred and it's becoming increasingly more rare.
While these guys all defend themselves fervently, declining turkey populations don't need additional exposure and like I said earlier, very few of these states have made any types of adjustments to their season lengths or bag limits to offset the additional pressure public land is experiencing. Are any of these guys advocating for those changes? Hell no, they aren't. In fact, I have seen some individuals who have responded to this thread argue against making changes because it would "decrease opportunity." If you really care about turkeys, people's opportunities to kill them sure as hell shouldn't be at the top of your list of concerns.
It would be very difficult to quantify the direct impact Youtube public land turkey hunting has had on public lands but you'd be hard pressed to convince me any of it is good..... and for all the guys talking about Arkansas duck hunting and pressure... I'm pretty sure AR restricted non-residents to only 30 days of public access out of the 60 day season :whip2: :whip2: :whip2:
That's the last of my .02 on the issue. No one is changing anyone's mind here. Ya'll have a good one.
Quote from: eggshell on February 15, 2021, 05:03:57 PM
I think that we have about exhausted this topic and like all things it has had it's time.
"When all is said and done"
Definition of when all is said and done -
: after considering or doing everything —used for a final general statement or judgment:
Used in a sentence:
It won't be easy, but when all is said and done, we'll be glad we did it.
The candidates claim to have different views but, when all is said and done, they're very much alike.
Merriam-Webster.com Dictionary, Merriam-Webster, https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/when%20all%20is%20said%20and%20done.
We haven't exhausted it yet. I have a couple links to a podcast and video I want to put on here when I can get to my laptop.
Quote from: Stoeger_bird on February 15, 2021, 01:35:19 PM
Jealousy of Dave and youtubers absolutely has 0 to do with it. I enjoyed watching their shows and applouded it before i saw first hand what it was becoming. Everywhere he hunts become the next new hotspot the next season The main problem I have is the new breed of hunter they are spawning. They have create the "all I care about is getting mine" type of hunters. Those type of hunters would stop or drastically cut down their thrill kills if they couldn't post on a social media platform.Those type of hunters are Whats going to bring this whole thing down! Dave knows damn well what he has created and is continuing to create. And don't let Dave be a hypocrite with calling him out for saying its not all about numbers and kills. For example look at what he did in his Wisconsin trip in 2019. How many did yall kill there Dave? Not only did u keep going back and harvesting bird after bird but u also brought in several different people to do the same. Yall know why he did this? VIEWS AND LIKES! Its literally ur job now Dave and ur finances depend it. Its a business to him now people Profit! Dave u can hid behind a cloak of doing it for the love of the hunt or whatever u claim but the simple truth is ur doing it now because u can't stop. Its become to big and as long as u keep making money the hell with everyone else and the most of all to hell with the resources. But hey Dave u got yours though so congrats.
Did you really wait 6 years to post, and this was your comment? Quite the let-down...
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 15, 2021, 04:39:33 PM
Quote from: g8rvet on February 15, 2021, 01:32:02 PM
I have watched THP. I find them entertaining. I think I have seen one or two of Pinhotti. Who is Shane? What is his name on you-space-agram-tube? LOL.
Assuming you are serious with the question....
Shane Simpson,...simpzenith on OG,...Calling All turkeys
I was serious. Thanks brother. Wanted to have a look. It is a long thread and I never saw a channel name on Youtube
while i've enjoyed and have watched some videos of the public land hunters.....
i just have a problem with people making money off of public resources
the duck guides around here have made it not fun anymore. they post some videos on youtube of clients getting certain desirable species and now even on a weekday i go out and meet tons of out-of-staters. guys skyblast everything and have no consideration for anyone else.
the guides intimidate people out of spots and pay locals to save spots overnight. guessing there's some under the table dealings with the local dnr to look the other way. when guys are making 4 figures a day to take people out on their boats they're willing to do bad things to keep that money coming in. trout, walleye and panfish guides can be just as bad. not saying they're all bad, but the fact a few are allowed to do whatever is unacceptable to me so they should all lose their privilege
hate to see turkey hunting go the same way
Quote from: CALLM2U on February 15, 2021, 06:49:16 PM
Quote from: Stoeger_bird on February 15, 2021, 01:35:19 PM
Jealousy of Dave and youtubers absolutely has 0 to do with it. I enjoyed watching their shows and applouded it before i saw first hand what it was becoming. Everywhere he hunts become the next new hotspot the next season The main problem I have is the new breed of hunter they are spawning. They have create the "all I care about is getting mine" type of hunters. Those type of hunters would stop or drastically cut down their thrill kills if they couldn't post on a social media platform.Those type of hunters are Whats going to bring this whole thing down! Dave knows damn well what he has created and is continuing to create. And don't let Dave be a hypocrite with calling him out for saying its not all about numbers and kills. For example look at what he did in his Wisconsin trip in 2019. How many did yall kill there Dave? Not only did u keep going back and harvesting bird after bird but u also brought in several different people to do the same. Yall know why he did this? VIEWS AND LIKES! Its literally ur job now Dave and ur finances depend it. Its a business to him now people Profit! Dave u can hid behind a cloak of doing it for the love of the hunt or whatever u claim but the simple truth is ur doing it now because u can't stop. Its become to big and as long as u keep making money the hell with everyone else and the most of all to hell with the resources. But hey Dave u got yours though so congrats.
Did you really wait 6 years to post, and this was your comment? Quite the let-down...
I suspect it's an alias. Probably a few of those within this thread honestly.
Quote from: CALLM2U on February 15, 2021, 06:49:16 PM
Quote from: Stoeger_bird on February 15, 2021, 01:35:19 PM
Jealousy of Dave and youtubers absolutely has 0 to do with it. I enjoyed watching their shows and applouded it before i saw first hand what it was becoming. Everywhere he hunts become the next new hotspot the next season The main problem I have is the new breed of hunter they are spawning. They have create the "all I care about is getting mine" type of hunters. Those type of hunters would stop or drastically cut down their thrill kills if they couldn't post on a social media platform.Those type of hunters are Whats going to bring this whole thing down! Dave knows damn well what he has created and is continuing to create. And don't let Dave be a hypocrite with calling him out for saying its not all about numbers and kills. For example look at what he did in his Wisconsin trip in 2019. How many did yall kill there Dave? Not only did u keep going back and harvesting bird after bird but u also brought in several different people to do the same. Yall know why he did this? VIEWS AND LIKES! Its literally ur job now Dave and ur finances depend it. Its a business to him now people Profit! Dave u can hid behind a cloak of doing it for the love of the hunt or whatever u claim but the simple truth is ur doing it now because u can't stop. Its become to big and as long as u keep making money the hell with everyone else and the most of all to hell with the resources. But hey Dave u got yours though so congrats.
Did you really wait 6 years to post, and this was your comment? Quite the let-down...
I laughed harder at this comment than I probably should have. Lol
Quote from: arkrem870 on April 12, 2020, 09:35:38 AM
I've hunted around all of the youtubers...... I can say this. They have about ruined some my favorite places in the world to hunt turkeys. Pimping out a public resource for profit.......and on top of that's its sacred turkey hunting. Loose lips sink ships. Leave the cameras at home......play the game for yourself - not for profit. We've seen duck hunting all but ruined by social media......don't think for a second turkey hunting won't go the same way especially when these dudes are trying to make hunting public land trendy/cool. As if it wasnt crowded before.
Back in 2001 I was talking to a coworker about turkey hunting, at that time I didn't turkey hunt. He was saying the worst thing to happen to Turkey hunting was the outdoor channel. Late 90's I believe they started airing lots of turkey hunting shows. I watched them but it didn't make me want to go hunt turkeys but lots of people did. His complaint was about going from not ever running into someone else turkey hunting to always running into people. Public or private land. I have hunted public land mostly, for turkey or deer and I am grateful that people have taken the time to educate people on locating public hunting ground near you that you didn't know you had, how to take a different approach to hunting on public land and that harvesting animals on public land isn't impossible yet due to high pressure. More and more people will come to hunt public land, I just hope things don't start happening with other hunts like what happened over here on reelfoot.
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Public land hunting has for the most part always been more difficult
than private land hunting. Yes there might have been fewer hunter's
on public land years ago, but there were less turkeys too.
As populations rose so did the number of hunters. The YouTube shows
have brought turkey hunting into a lot of homes and more people are
interested than ever before. Turkey hunting has also never been easier.
We have incredible decoys, blinds, TSS, mapping apps with GPS etc.
This has lead to more hunters on public land. Coupled with that fact is
the fact that there is less private land available to hunt now.
With turkey populations decreasing, and hunter populations increasing,
I suspect there will come a time when turkey hunting isn't that easy
anymore. Increased competition for the fewer remaining birds will
cut down on the enjoyment.
When turkey hunting becomes more difficult some people
will give it up, and the guys who really love it will still be there.
If some YouTube hunters, and the minions that follow them around
invade my hunting area, I'll just say good luck to them and I'll go somewhere else, just like I've always done.
That's my :z-twocents:
I honestly had no idea that there was so many Channels + Teams that do most of their Camera work on Public Land.
I have seen some content on a few of these Utube Channels. Mostly I watch Primos + Matt Dale's Turkey Educational Channel.
Just out of Curiosity, I stopped looking at 10 big Channels that concentrate on Public Lands on Utube. I would like to watch them all if, I had the time.
Just curious- nothing against these channels- how much Money do these guys make for filming Public Land Spring Turkey Hunts?
I really like the Utube Videos that has a format of talking g about a Spring Hunt with a Dead Gobbler right there.
I am sure some here has seen on Utube- Ol Turkey Master who Spring Hunts in the Smokey Mts. Great storyteller he is!
I myself have a Small Utube Turkey Educational Channel. Only 13 Subscribers- just a fun series that anyone can do
Punch in- " Stay In The Game" and you can put my 61 year old face to this post.
Luck to all this Spring + lasting memories!
Quote from: Stoeger_bird on February 15, 2021, 01:35:19 PM
Jealousy of Dave and youtubers absolutely has 0 to do with it. I enjoyed watching their shows and applouded it before i saw first hand what it was becoming. Everywhere he hunts become the next new hotspot the next season The main problem I have is the new breed of hunter they are spawning. They have create the "all I care about is getting mine" type of hunters. Those type of hunters would stop or drastically cut down their thrill kills if they couldn't post on a social media platform.Those type of hunters are Whats going to bring this whole thing down! Dave knows damn well what he has created and is continuing to create. And don't let Dave be a hypocrite with calling him out for saying its not all about numbers and kills. For example look at what he did in his Wisconsin trip in 2019. How many did yall kill there Dave? Not only did u keep going back and harvesting bird after bird but u also brought in several different people to do the same. Yall know why he did this? VIEWS AND LIKES! Its literally ur job now Dave and ur finances depend it. Its a business to him now people Profit! Dave u can hid behind a cloak of doing it for the love of the hunt or whatever u claim but the simple truth is ur doing it now because u can't stop. Its become to big and as long as u keep making money the hell with everyone else and the most of all to hell with the resources. But hey Dave u got yours though so congrats.
I hope people don't read this and believe it's actually true.
First off, the "all I care about is getting mine" mentality has been around a lot longer than YouTube.
Second, Dave probably cares more about turkey and turkey hunting than most of us in this group. I'm guessing you don't know much about Wisconsin either.
I watched Dave's videos before many people ever heard of him. At the same time I was filming my hunts as well, because I enjoyed it. Same way Shane got into it too. A hobby became a side hustle, but we do it because we enjoy it. I've told people plenty of times, I only carry a camera around the woods because I enjoy it. I like to go back and watch the footage and relive the memories. To film a successful hunt is rewarding to me. Now it's become a side business that helps me to pursue my passion a little more.
Over the past couple years as my channel has grown, I've gotten more and more secretive about what I show in the videos, because I don't want a crowd following me. Even on private land I don't say much about location. I try to give advice to help people find their own honey hole and be successful in the woods. Hunter recruitment is important, so if I've introduced a few people to turkey hunting, then that's a good thing. Hunters pay for conservation, we are the reason we have so much land and wildlife to hunt. Good luck out there this spring.
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Quote from: quavers59 on February 16, 2021, 09:21:15 AM
Just curious- nothing against these channels- how much Money do these guys make for filming Public Land Spring Turkey Hunts?
Found this online -
"Average Salary of a YouTuber with 500k Subscribers is $3,750 per month
$2000 from ad views + $1,750 from Ad clicks = $3,750
The average salary of a YouTuber with 100k subscribers is $750 per month
$400 from ad views + $350 from Ad clicks = $750"
Considering THP has 350k subscribers, Catman 60k, Pinhoti 24k, and Shane Simpson 36k these guys are not getting rich on YouTube. THP and Pinhoti probably do well with merchandise sales so that adds to it.
Quote from: CALLM2U on February 15, 2021, 06:49:16 PM
Quote from: Stoeger_bird on February 15, 2021, 01:35:19 PM
Jealousy of Dave and youtubers absolutely has 0 to do with it. I enjoyed watching their shows and applouded it before i saw first hand what it was becoming. Everywhere he hunts become the next new hotspot the next season The main problem I have is the new breed of hunter they are spawning. They have create the "all I care about is getting mine" type of hunters. Those type of hunters would stop or drastically cut down their thrill kills if they couldn't post on a social media platform.Those type of hunters are Whats going to bring this whole thing down! Dave knows damn well what he has created and is continuing to create. And don't let Dave be a hypocrite with calling him out for saying its not all about numbers and kills. For example look at what he did in his Wisconsin trip in 2019. How many did yall kill there Dave? Not only did u keep going back and harvesting bird after bird but u also brought in several different people to do the same. Yall know why he did this? VIEWS AND LIKES! Its literally ur job now Dave and ur finances depend it. Its a business to him now people Profit! Dave u can hid behind a cloak of doing it for the love of the hunt or whatever u claim but the simple truth is ur doing it now because u can't stop. Its become to big and as long as u keep making money the hell with everyone else and the most of all to hell with the resources. But hey Dave u got yours though so congrats.
Did you really wait 6 years to post, and this was your comment? Quite the let-down...
Oh I'm sorry I didnt know I had to have a post count to have any validity on any topic or forums. At what number of your post since 2018 did u gain it?
Quote from: Jbird22 on February 15, 2021, 09:03:06 PM
Quote from: CALLM2U on February 15, 2021, 06:49:16 PM
Quote from: Stoeger_bird on February 15, 2021, 01:35:19 PM
Jealousy of Dave and youtubers absolutely has 0 to do with it. I enjoyed watching their shows and applouded it before i saw first hand what it was becoming. Everywhere he hunts become the next new hotspot the next season The main problem I have is the new breed of hunter they are spawning. They have create the "all I care about is getting mine" type of hunters. Those type of hunters would stop or drastically cut down their thrill kills if they couldn't post on a social media platform.Those type of hunters are Whats going to bring this whole thing down! Dave knows damn well what he has created and is continuing to create. And don't let Dave be a hypocrite with calling him out for saying its not all about numbers and kills. For example look at what he did in his Wisconsin trip in 2019. How many did yall kill there Dave? Not only did u keep going back and harvesting bird after bird but u also brought in several different people to do the same. Yall know why he did this? VIEWS AND LIKES! Its literally ur job now Dave and ur finances depend it. Its a business to him now people Profit! Dave u can hid behind a cloak of doing it for the love of the hunt or whatever u claim but the simple truth is ur doing it now because u can't stop. Its become to big and as long as u keep making money the hell with everyone else and the most of all to hell with the resources. But hey Dave u got yours though so congrats.
Did you really wait 6 years to post, and this was your comment? Quite the let-down...
I suspect it's an alias. Probably a few of those within this thread honestly.
No not an alias per se. I will gladly reveal who I am in private but just would rather not on oublic forums.
Quote from: Gobble! on February 16, 2021, 11:34:51 AM
Quote from: quavers59 on February 16, 2021, 09:21:15 AM
Just curious- nothing against these channels- how much Money do these guys make for filming Public Land Spring Turkey Hunts?
Found this online -
"Average Salary of a YouTuber with 500k Subscribers is $3,750 per month
$2000 from ad views + $1,750 from Ad clicks = $3,750
The average salary of a YouTuber with 100k subscribers is $750 per month
$400 from ad views + $350 from Ad clicks = $750"
Considering THP has 350k subscribers, Catman 60k, Pinhoti 24k, and Shane Simpson 36k these guys are not getting rich on YouTube. THP and Pinhoti probably do well with merchandise sales so that adds to it.
greg and aaron were already industry guys before THP. Cant really be mad , when its already part of what they did....Im talking about making money, nothing specific to do with their show or public land. You have to consider a few other things, the life they live vs the life we live. Some of them "not all" give up quite a bit of "regular" life to do what they do. Its easy to think you would love to do that, or you would kill to do that....Im not so sure most folks actually would....
Quote from: Stoeger_bird on February 15, 2021, 01:35:19 PM
Jealousy of Dave and youtubers absolutely has 0 to do with it. I enjoyed watching their shows and applouded it before i saw first hand what it was becoming. Everywhere he hunts become the next new hotspot the next season The main problem I have is the new breed of hunter they are spawning. They have create the "all I care about is getting mine" type of hunters. Those type of hunters would stop or drastically cut down their thrill kills if they couldn't post on a social media platform.Those type of hunters are Whats going to bring this whole thing down! Dave knows damn well what he has created and is continuing to create. And don't let Dave be a hypocrite with calling him out for saying its not all about numbers and kills. For example look at what he did in his Wisconsin trip in 2019. How many did yall kill there Dave? Not only did u keep going back and harvesting bird after bird but u also brought in several different people to do the same. Yall know why he did this? VIEWS AND LIKES! Its literally ur job now Dave and ur finances depend it. Its a business to him now people Profit! Dave u can hid behind a cloak of doing it for the love of the hunt or whatever u claim but the simple truth is ur doing it now because u can't stop. Its become to big and as long as u keep making money the hell with everyone else and the most of all to hell with the resources. But hey Dave u got yours though so congrats.
You bet I'm jealous of Dave. Have you seen Courtney?
Rstewart , something tells me your a arkie :funnyturkey:
It's kind of crazy that turkey hunting is this far behind duck hunting when it comes to people figuring out that loose lips sink ships... I remember when I started duck hunting 20 years ago, you could lose friends if you told ANYONE where you were hunting and I mean what part of a state you were hunting in :TooFunny:
It was for good reason. It didn't take much to start seeing boat ramps turn in to boat shows at 3:30a.m and then watch them drag-race to spots in the middle of the night.
It's not just youtubers...its facebook groups, forums, youtube channels, and just guys telling their buddies....who then don't have enough sense to not post locations on said groups and forums.
Not trying to belabor this discussion, but all of this brings to mind what has happened with the western states and the allotment of hunting opportunity for most big game species. Everything has pretty much gone to a draw system, and almost all western states now allot only about 10% of their permits to nonresidents.
If all the talk about nonresidents overrunning public-land turkey hunting is some states is a reality, I would fully expect to start seeing more states putting a limit on nonresident permits and allotting those permits through a drawing.
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 17, 2021, 08:40:21 AM
Not trying to belabor this discussion, but all of this brings to mind what has happened with the western states and the allotment of hunting opportunity for most big game species. Everything has pretty much gone to a draw system, and almost all western states now allot only about 10% of their permits to nonresidents.
If all the talk about nonresidents overrunning public-land turkey hunting is some states is a reality, I would fully expect to start seeing more states putting a limit on nonresident permits and allotting those permits through a drawing.
If the current trend continues, there is a good chance there will be reduced opportunity in some form or fashion. The easiest resolution would be more draw/quota hunts or shortened seasons. But we are already seeing proposals for shortening entire state seasons and limit reductions. I have personally hunted a few public areas the past couple springs where there are serious safety concerns, especially on opening weekend/week. I hunted these same areas anywhere from 3-5 seasons prior and they weren't near as bad as they are now.
As a participant in many western draw systems, I really hope turkey hunting doesn't go that way, but it very well could. A few examples:
-Arkansas's restrictions on non-resident duck hunters utilizing WMAs
-South Carolina's reduced turkey bag limit for non-residents
Western big game hunting is also starting to price people out of the game, but application numbers just keep rising due to demand. Application numbers have also been rising for turkey hunting in the east, as demand for public land hunting is higher than it has ever been in my lifetime.
Currently Florida doesn't have a cap on regular non-resident quota permits. I have the Florida draw data from two recent years and point creep is already happening in south Florida. I would not be surprised at all if Florida eventually puts a non-resident cap on their normal quota permits like they do their special opportunity ones. In fact, it'd make sense for them to in order to take care of their residents. They'd just lose some non-resident WMA permit sales (requirement to apply for draw hunts).
I actually sort of like the idea someone mentioned earlier in this thread about a 1-bird limit for non-residents. That'd definitely help spread the non-resident pressure. I've hunted several 1-bird states and often have fantastic hunts in them.
Or, do what western states are doing, and raise prices. Iowa is approaching $300 for a single bird now. That is a bit extreme but it'd definitely spread pressure. I'd hate for anyone to be priced out of the game, but don't be surprised if it happens. The possibility is very real. Several other states are already $300+ for season long non-resident turkey licenses.
If licenses are raised, I wish part of the funds could be earmarked for a 'turkey fund' like some states have. If the money isn't earmarked, there is no telling where the license money will go. Which is one thing that isn't mentioned when people put forth the "More hunters, more license sales, more money for turkey!" That isn't necessarily true. We'd like to think that means more money for turkey, but that money is liable to go anywhere. And deer is the major cash crop for most state agencies....
Agree entirely with your comments, deerhunt1988. We are ever-more-rapidly moving towards more restrictive hunting opportunity for "Average Joe", while making sure the affluent can buy their way in.
And we can lay most of the overcrowding at the feet of social media. And their millions of views. LOOSE LIPS SINK SHIPS. It's was true in WW2 and it's true now.
YouTube, podcasts, meateater, thp, pinhoti. Etc etc. definition of loose lips. Get ready for more crowding. Get ready for more restrictions. Get ready to not get drawn.
All over people trying to make MONEY off of hunting. But the kicker is...... very little money is even at play. I mean your trying to monetize what people do for free. And always another kid with a video camera trying to get confirmation thstll do it cheaper. Good luck
Quote from: deerhunt1988 on February 17, 2021, 08:57:06 AM
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 17, 2021, 08:40:21 AM
Not trying to belabor this discussion, but all of this brings to mind what has happened with the western states and the allotment of hunting opportunity for most big game species. Everything has pretty much gone to a draw system, and almost all western states now allot only about 10% of their permits to nonresidents.
If all the talk about nonresidents overrunning public-land turkey hunting is some states is a reality, I would fully expect to start seeing more states putting a limit on nonresident permits and allotting those permits through a drawing.
If the current trend continues, there is a good chance there will be reduced opportunity in some form or fashion. The easiest resolution would be more draw/quota hunts or shortened seasons. But we are already seeing proposals for shortening entire state seasons and limit reductions. I have personally hunted a few public areas the past couple springs where there are serious safety concerns, especially on opening weekend/week. I hunted these same areas anywhere from 3-5 seasons prior and they weren't near as bad as they are now.
As a participant in many western draw systems, I really hope turkey hunting doesn't go that way, but it very well could. A few examples:
-Arkansas's restrictions on non-resident duck hunters utilizing WMAs
-South Carolina's reduced turkey bag limit for non-residents
Western big game hunting is also starting to price people out of the game, but application numbers just keep rising due to demand. Application numbers have also been rising for turkey hunting in the east, as demand for public land hunting is higher than it has ever been in my lifetime.
Currently Florida doesn't have a cap on regular non-resident quota permits. I have the Florida draw data from two recent years and point creep is already happening in south Florida. I would not be surprised at all if Florida eventually puts a non-resident cap on their normal quota permits like they do their special opportunity ones. In fact, it'd make sense for them to in order to take care of their residents. They'd just lose some non-resident WMA permit sales (requirement to apply for draw hunts).
I actually sort of like the idea someone mentioned earlier in this thread about a 1-bird limit for non-residents. That'd definitely help spread the non-resident pressure. I've hunted several 1-bird states and often have fantastic hunts in them.
Or, do what western states are doing, and raise prices. Iowa is approaching $300 for a single bird now. That is a bit extreme but it'd definitely spread pressure. I'd hate for anyone to be priced out of the game, but don't be surprised if it happens. The possibility is very real. Several other states are already $300+ for season long non-resident turkey licenses.
If licenses are raised, I wish part of the funds could be earmarked for a 'turkey fund' like some states have. If the money isn't earmarked, there is no telling where the license money will go. Which is one thing that isn't mentioned when people put forth the "More hunters, more license sales, more money for turkey!" That isn't necessarily true. We'd like to think that means more money for turkey, but that money is liable to go anywhere. And deer is the major cash crop for most state agencies....
As a Florida resident I can say we as residents get screwed big time on turkey quotas. Go on YouTube and type in osceola public land and see how many out of state guys every year are videoing. That's not counting the ones that don't video. Friend of mine on a rather large quantity quota area in central Florida counted more nonresident hunters and trucks than resident. I'm all for nonresidents coming, but I feel the quota system should lean heavily toward the residents like western states such as South Dakota. It's to the point you have to wait 2-4 years to get one sometimes.
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Quote from: deerhunt1988 on February 17, 2021, 08:57:06 AM
Currently Florida doesn't have a cap on regular non-resident quota permits. I have the Florida draw data from two recent years and point creep is already happening in south Florida. I would not be surprised at all if Florida eventually puts a non-resident cap on their normal quota permits like they do their special opportunity ones. In fact, it'd make sense for them to in order to take care of their residents. They'd just lose some non-resident WMA permit sales (requirement to apply for draw hunts).
I have that same draw data and It was bad this year at wma I like this year... 11 of the 15 permit holders were out of state. They are driving up the point system. It is getting harder and harder to draw tags there.
Quote from: Ross R on February 17, 2021, 10:09:49 AM
Quote from: deerhunt1988 on February 17, 2021, 08:57:06 AM
Currently Florida doesn't have a cap on regular non-resident quota permits. I have the Florida draw data from two recent years and point creep is already happening in south Florida. I would not be surprised at all if Florida eventually puts a non-resident cap on their normal quota permits like they do their special opportunity ones. In fact, it'd make sense for them to in order to take care of their residents. They'd just lose some non-resident WMA permit sales (requirement to apply for draw hunts).
I have that same draw data and It was bad this year at wma I like this year... 11 of the 15 permit holders were out of state. They are driving up the point system. It is getting harder and harder to draw tags there.
For the 2019 season, that same area had 7 out of 15 permit holders being non-residents. Appears to be the last year someone was able to draw it with 3 points too.
The WMA where several successful hunts have been filmed in recent years, had a decent chance of drawing with 1 point as recent as 2019. It'd been that way for a decade. For 2021, it took most folks 3 points to draw! I'm pretty certain this timeframe isn't a coincidence.
After looking at this data further, if I was a Florida resident, I'd be contacting my wildlife commissioners and representatives to try and get some changes!
It's not just Florida deerhunt1988 and you know that well. This is happening all over the country to areas that are being sold out by the YouTube guys. It's a fact with statistics to 100% back it up. It's a serious issue the effects all turkey hunters. Take it seriously fellas. This doesn't end well for turkey hunters or regional turkey populations.
Quote from: arkrem870 on February 17, 2021, 09:29:44 AM
And we can lay most of the overcrowding at the feet of social media. And their millions of views. LOOSE LIPS SINK SHIPS. It's was true in WW2 and it's true now.
YouTube, podcasts, meateater, thp, pinhoti. Etc etc. definition of loose lips. Get ready for more crowding. Get ready for more restrictions. Get ready to not get drawn.
All over people trying to make MONEY off of hunting. But the kicker is...... very little money is even at play. I mean your trying to monetize what people do for free. And always another kid with a video camera trying to get confirmation thstll do it cheaper. Good luck
we've been flooded with arkies for turkies here in the sip before social media, and long before the you tube craze. we've been flooded from louisianna for deer hunting for decades as well, but its seeming to now become for turkeys as well in more recent years. Its just too many people. I think a 1 bird limit for a non res would be a fantastic idea. It would boil the blood of many non res that practically live here ...but it is what is.
I've been waiting to respond when I had time to post a couple links for people to see the affects of what youtube is having on turkey hunting.
Dave Owens alluded to in his previous post in this thread about the need to be conservation minded.
It's not a secret that he pimped out Wisconsin possibly beyond repair. In his series, he made a couple comments about Wisconsin "being his kind of state" in a separate video and "$15 dollar tags" at the end of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqCd6wgxngk.
This video was put out prior to last season, but after the permit deadline for Wisconsin. Guess what guys and girls, read the "Attention" note on this link: https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/hunt/turkey.
Any of you think this is a coincidence? Does this follow a conservation minded mindset??? Answer that one.
Further, Dave Owens also did a podcast with Cuz Strickland and discussed how crowded South FL has became. Go to about 9:00 and listen to this podcast. https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZm9kcG9kY2FzdC5saWJzeW4uY29tL3Jzcw?sa=X&ved=0CAMQ4aUDahcKEwjQ08v7qvHuAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQBA&hl=en
We have heard from south FL hunters on here about how crowded Florida has became. The hell with everyone else, these Youtubers "have got theirs".
I hate to put these states under scrutiny any more than they already are, but it's damn well past time these youtubers are called out.
Before I'm called out for being a hater, jealous, or wannabe- that is the furthest thing from the case. I've literally built a business around having free time in the spring. With that comes the obvious headaches and time restrictions- some years I can hunt more than others.
But you can be sure, I have never put a picture on a website or social media platform. I don't even have Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. I'm not out pimping public lands out for literally pennies on the dollar, but am busting my the rest of the year to be able, while raising a family and business, to hunt in the spring.
With that said, I'm not singling out Dave Owens. THP, Catman, and others are just as guilty. They leave more "bread crumbs" than a toddler eating a bag of animal cookies. Google earth and street view, hi resolution aerial/topo maps, various gps apps for your phone- all put what you need in the palm of your hands to follow these guys around.
It's a delicate balance between hunter's dollars paying for conservation and crowding out areas to a point that hurt game populations. What we are seeing with Youtube presence falls to the latter. If the trends continues, you can look for more restrictions, draws, and red tape to jump through to hunt.
And that is a FACT you can take to the bank.
There's been a few of us that have been saying what youtube and showcasing public land will do to the sport if it keeps on. Most of the time, we were chastised. But as more and more people see the negative affects of what is going on, people are coming around and tired of it. It's taken several years, but is finally happening.
I wish I could give silent tom a "like" for that one.
Is 16,000 more permit applications in Wisconsin this year than last a coincidence?
What about florida?
What about the Mississippi location that got pimped last year..... applications # through the roof ?
Pray these fellas don't show up with their cameras down the road on your local mangement area......it will very likely never be the same. Unless you like sleeping in the bed of your truck and fighting other hunters
Quote from: silent tom on February 17, 2021, 11:50:29 AM
Dave Owens alluded to in his previous post in this thread about the need to be conservation minded.
It's not a secret that he pimped out Wisconsin possibly beyond repair. In his series, he made a couple comments about Wisconsin "being his kind of state" in a separate video and "$15 dollar tags" at the end of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqCd6wgxngk.
This video was put out prior to last season, but after the permit deadline for Wisconsin. Guess what guys and girls, read the "Attention" note on this link: https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/hunt/turkey.
Any of you think this is a coincidence? Does this follow a conservation minded mindset??? Answer that one.
WHOA. Here is what is shown at that link:
(https://i.imgur.com/EFlsMVd.png)
But doesn't surprise me a bit. I had the privilege of experiencing the Wisconsin crapshow of 2020. And several other non-residents I met specifically mentioned to me that YouTubers were the reason they were there. Anyone else who got to experience the OTC period in Wisconsin can easily understand why so many more would be applying for the earlier hunts!
well If your going to call people out it is good you have evidence. Hard to dispute when you see and hear for yourself. I vote a "like" as well. Like I said on an earlier post I had similar run ins with a turkey thug.
Anyone want a video of me going over to me neighbors and shooting a million dollar turkey?
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Quote from: Happy on February 17, 2021, 12:22:38 PM
Anyone want a video of me going over to me neighbors and shooting a million dollar turkey?
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
I'll watch it..... Like, and even subscribe! Who knows, you may could start a trend.
You could make it a barn yard grandslam if he has different colors.
Quote from: silent tom on February 17, 2021, 11:50:29 AM
Dave Owens alluded to in his previous post in this thread about the need to be conservation minded.
It's not a secret that he pimped out Wisconsin possibly beyond repair. In his series, he made a couple comments about Wisconsin "being his kind of state" in a separate video and "$15 dollar tags" at the end of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqCd6wgxngk.
This video was put out prior to last season, but after the permit deadline for Wisconsin. Guess what guys and girls, read the "Attention" note on this link: https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/hunt/turkey.
Any of you think this is a coincidence? Does this follow a conservation minded mindset??? Answer that one.
I'm sure Dave's videos influenced a few hunters to apply for Wisconsin but I seriously doubt it was a major contributor.
Covid is the real culprit. Wisconsin sells leftover tags and most folks don't bother to apply for the draw (it save themselves application fees) because they know leftover tags are available. Because of Covid and everyone being out of work, Wisconsin and every other state in the nation saw record license sales last year. In Wisconsin, leftover tags were snatched up left and right and soon ran out. The hunters that weren't able to pick up a leftover tag made sure they applied for the draw this year. There were also a lot of people introduced to turkey hunting last spring that haven't given it much thought in the past so now they are applying for permits. Add up all those factors and that's the real reason there is a record number of applicants to Wisconsin turkey permits.
Just a side note: Wisconsin has the best season and licensing structure of any other state (imo) and the turkeys are in no danger of being over hunted there. It's just a great system that other states should try to emulate.
so covid made everyone apply for turkey permits in Wisconsin this year......shaking my head. Take your blinders off. The quicker y'all understand broadcasting information on hunting locations to millions of users has consequences the better for everyone.
Quote from: simpzenith on February 17, 2021, 12:28:56 PM
Quote from: silent tom on February 17, 2021, 11:50:29 AM
Dave Owens alluded to in his previous post in this thread about the need to be conservation minded.
It's not a secret that he pimped out Wisconsin possibly beyond repair. In his series, he made a couple comments about Wisconsin "being his kind of state" in a separate video and "$15 dollar tags" at the end of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqCd6wgxngk.
This video was put out prior to last season, but after the permit deadline for Wisconsin. Guess what guys and girls, read the "Attention" note on this link: https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/hunt/turkey.
Any of you think this is a coincidence? Does this follow a conservation minded mindset??? Answer that one.
I'm sure Dave's videos influenced a few hunters to apply for Wisconsin but I seriously doubt it was a major contributor.
Covid is the real culprit. Wisconsin sells leftover tags and most folks don't bother to apply for the draw (it save themselves application fees) because they know leftover tags are available. Because of Covid and everyone being out of work, Wisconsin and every other state in the saw record license sales last year. In Wisconsin, leftover tags were snatched up left and right and soon ran out. The hunters that weren't able to pick up a leftover tag made sure they applied for the draw this year. There were also a lot of people introduced to turkey hunting last spring that haven't given it much thought in the past so now they are applying for permits. Add up all those factors and that's the real reason there is a record number of applicants to Wisconsin turkey permits.
Just a side note: Wisconsin has the best season and licensing structure of any other state (imo) and the turkeys are in no danger of being over hunted there. It's just a great system that other states should try to emulate.
I wont say if Dave or anyone else's video's have had an effect but if you go to youtube (I Just did, out of curiosity) and type in "Wisconsin Public Turkey Hunting", the first couple of videos that pop up from THP have 81,000 and 45,000 views... If just 10% of those people find their way to Wisconsin as a result, that's a huge number...and then say they go have success and tell their buddies, who also go the next year, and who tell their buddies..........etc etc etc.
I understand you do it too but the more exposure a area or even a state gets, the more crowded it's going to be. That's not unique to the hunting industry or public lands.... Business' advertise and, as a result, more people find out about them and consume their products. Same thing here- if you "advertise" that X-State is loaded with turkey, has cheap tags, and relatively little pressure, people are going to start consuming.
Quote from: arkrem870 on February 17, 2021, 12:38:10 PM
so covid made everyone apply for turkey permits in Wisconsin this year......shaking my head. Take your blinders off. The quicker y'all understand broadcasting information on hunting locations to millions of users has consequences the better for everyone.
So you're saying a video with 30,000 views made more than 16,000 or 50% of it's viewers apply for a turkey permit in Wisconsin. That's sounds legit.
i'm going to start a channel of nothing but 30 minute videos of me walking around all my secret spots and showing them prominently
then lots of bad poorly timed calling. sipping on my coffee and smoking a cig as the one bird i see all season busts me. lose a contact and have to stumble home. taking naps. saying screw it and spending the day morel and ramp hunting. then falling onto my couch with a big smile on my face at the end of the day
Quote from: simpzenith on February 17, 2021, 12:28:56 PM
Quote from: silent tom on February 17, 2021, 11:50:29 AM
Dave Owens alluded to in his previous post in this thread about the need to be conservation minded.
It's not a secret that he pimped out Wisconsin possibly beyond repair. In his series, he made a couple comments about Wisconsin "being his kind of state" in a separate video and "$15 dollar tags" at the end of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqCd6wgxngk.
This video was put out prior to last season, but after the permit deadline for Wisconsin. Guess what guys and girls, read the "Attention" note on this link: https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/hunt/turkey.
Any of you think this is a coincidence? Does this follow a conservation minded mindset??? Answer that one.
I'm sure Dave's videos influenced a few hunters to apply for Wisconsin but I seriously doubt it was a major contributor.
Covid is the real culprit. Wisconsin sells leftover tags and most folks don't bother to apply for the draw (it save themselves application fees) because they know leftover tags are available. Because of Covid and everyone being out of work, Wisconsin and every other state in the saw record license sales last year. In Wisconsin, leftover tags were snatched up left and right and soon ran out. The hunters that weren't able to pick up a leftover tag made sure they applied for the draw this year. There were also a lot of people introduced to turkey hunting last spring that haven't given it much thought in the past so now they are applying for permits. Add up all those factors and that's the real reason there is a record number of applicants to Wisconsin turkey permits.
Just a side note: Wisconsin has the best season and licensing structure of any other state (imo) and the turkeys are in no danger of being over hunted there. It's just a great system that other states should try to emulate.
Wait and see. If you don't think they can be overhunted, you probably didn't see firsthand what happened to Kansas in the last 10 years.
See all the youtubers have to stick together and defend each other because they know what they are doing is causing more harm than good. They will continue to throw the excuse of hunter recruitment and license sales and thier fan boys will all get behind them defend. People who have been traveling to hunt or even locals that have had the tubers visit thier areas know the truth. I plan on getting as many people as I can to join with me in going to my state officials to try our best to make some change that won't benefit some of the tubers but will truly benefit my states public lands and turkeys.
Quote from: simpzenith on February 17, 2021, 12:45:15 PM
Quote from: arkrem870 on February 17, 2021, 12:38:10 PM
so covid made everyone apply for turkey permits in Wisconsin this year......shaking my head. Take your blinders off. The quicker y'all understand broadcasting information on hunting locations to millions of users has consequences the better for everyone.
So you're saying a video with 30,000 views made more than 16,000 or 50% of it's viewers apply for a turkey permit in Wisconsin. That's sounds legit.
Not to be an asshole here but if you're that sure that what you guys do ISNT having an effect, post up your personal honey holes online. If the youtube movement isn't having an effect (or at least not a significant one), it wont cause any extra hunting pressure so no problem.
I just looked up all the season dates and license information for Wisconsin. I had never done that before, watching a couple videos and an internet conversation made me want to see what all the hub bub was about. Now, how many more do that and even are planning a trip. Dang just the $15.00 a tag comment made me go hmmm and take a look. I'm not going but it made me look. Shane and Dave, I'm not assigning blame or saying you aren't putting out a product better than most, but it will be real hard to get away from hunters associating increased numbers with your videos and comments. Perhaps it is just part of what comes with your trade. I think trying to divert it to covid will fail, most won't buy that explanation. Here's a thought, don't even say what sate your hunting in any video, just say today we are hunting rios, easterns, merriams or Osceolas. Of course everyone knows where Osceolas are. I suspect as many that are upset with you there is an equal number that love what you do and find it very helpful. when I was in my career there was always someone who thought you were an idiot and to blame for them not getting their game or catching a fish. Do what you are driven to do the best and most thoughtful way you can and you don't have to justify it to anyone. If you are wrong your market will go away and you'll be doing something else. It's my personal choice not to be a buyer, and that's ok too. I do like reading reviews on products I'm buying, and this discussion is just that a review. If reviews reveal a flaw then to stay in business it's a good idea to fix the flaw.
I try to be fair and objective, but my vote is the videos bring more crowding and is a bad thing when an area is revealed.
Quote from: silent tom on February 17, 2021, 12:51:22 PM
Quote from: simpzenith on February 17, 2021, 12:28:56 PM
Quote from: silent tom on February 17, 2021, 11:50:29 AM
Dave Owens alluded to in his previous post in this thread about the need to be conservation minded.
It's not a secret that he pimped out Wisconsin possibly beyond repair. In his series, he made a couple comments about Wisconsin "being his kind of state" in a separate video and "$15 dollar tags" at the end of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqCd6wgxngk.
This video was put out prior to last season, but after the permit deadline for Wisconsin. Guess what guys and girls, read the "Attention" note on this link: https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/hunt/turkey.
Any of you think this is a coincidence? Does this follow a conservation minded mindset??? Answer that one.
I'm sure Dave's videos influenced a few hunters to apply for Wisconsin but I seriously doubt it was a major contributor.
Covid is the real culprit. Wisconsin sells leftover tags and most folks don't bother to apply for the draw (it save themselves application fees) because they know leftover tags are available. Because of Covid and everyone being out of work, Wisconsin and every other state in the saw record license sales last year. In Wisconsin, leftover tags were snatched up left and right and soon ran out. The hunters that weren't able to pick up a leftover tag made sure they applied for the draw this year. There were also a lot of people introduced to turkey hunting last spring that haven't given it much thought in the past so now they are applying for permits. Add up all those factors and that's the real reason there is a record number of applicants to Wisconsin turkey permits.
Just a side note: Wisconsin has the best season and licensing structure of any other state (imo) and the turkeys are in no danger of being over hunted there. It's just a great system that other states should try to emulate.
Wait and see. If you don't think they can be overhunted, you probably didn't see firsthand what happened to Kansas in the last 10 years.
especially when 75% of pressure is concentrated in 2 zones
Quote from: redleg06 on February 17, 2021, 12:54:21 PM
Quote from: simpzenith on February 17, 2021, 12:45:15 PM
Quote from: arkrem870 on February 17, 2021, 12:38:10 PM
so covid made everyone apply for turkey permits in Wisconsin this year......shaking my head. Take your blinders off. The quicker y'all understand broadcasting information on hunting locations to millions of users has consequences the better for everyone.
So you're saying a video with 30,000 views made more than 16,000 or 50% of it's viewers apply for a turkey permit in Wisconsin. That's sounds legit.
Not to be an asshole here but if you're that sure that what you guys do ISNT having an effect, post up your personal honey holes online. If the youtube movement isn't having an effect (or at least not a significant one), it wont cause any extra hunting pressure so no problem.
I don't have a honey hole perse, I do have a favorite areas to hunt but I'm not locked into any particular hunting locations. If I need to drive south from my home instead of east to get to a "better" area, then I'll do that.
Quote from: silent tom on February 17, 2021, 12:51:22 PM
Wait and see. If you don't think they can be overhunted, you probably didn't see firsthand what happened to Kansas in the last 10 years.
Wisconsin basically has a quota system for the entire state, divided into 7 zones. Once a certain amount of tags are sold, they're done selling tags. Hard to over hunt them if tags are limited and the number of tags sold are adjusted each year to even further prevent over harvest.
Quote from: simpzenith on February 17, 2021, 01:27:45 PM
Quote from: silent tom on February 17, 2021, 12:51:22 PM
Wait and see. If you don't think they can be overhunted, you probably didn't see firsthand what happened to Kansas in the last 10 years.
Wisconsin basically has a quota system for the entire state, divided into 7 zones. Once a certain amount of tags are sold, they're done selling tags. Hard to over hunt them if tags are limited and the number of tags sold are adjusted each year to even further prevent over harvest.
Correct- with the last couple of seasons having extremely liberal tag allotments that aren't purchased. Like I said, time will tell and you won't like the outcome.
Quote from: simpzenith on February 17, 2021, 01:27:45 PM
Quote from: silent tom on February 17, 2021, 12:51:22 PM
Wait and see. If you don't think they can be overhunted, you probably didn't see firsthand what happened to Kansas in the last 10 years.
Wisconsin basically has a quota system for the entire state, divided into 7 zones. Once a certain amount of tags are sold, they're done selling tags. Hard to over hunt them if tags are limited and the number of tags sold are adjusted each year to even further prevent over harvest.
The problem with that is the state is basing their quota/ number of tags on the state/regional population, not just a given piece of public land. In other words, if they aren't specifying that someone could only take X number of birds off of a given piece of public ground, then, in theory, you could kill all the birds off a given section of public and still be within the quota. If the added applications are primarily from out of state or out of area hunters, the majority of your hunting is going to be concentrated on the public land and not spread out evenly across the area to include the private land also.
It just doesnt take that many extra pairs of boots in the woods to turn a real good place in to a marginal place.
Hunters are a minority in this county, weather or not "your" spot is getting too much pressure.
With the clown show running this country we need anyone and everyone out hunting!
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Quote from: simpzenith on February 17, 2021, 12:28:56 PM
Quote from: silent tom on February 17, 2021, 11:50:29 AM
Dave Owens alluded to in his previous post in this thread about the need to be conservation minded.
It's not a secret that he pimped out Wisconsin possibly beyond repair. In his series, he made a couple comments about Wisconsin "being his kind of state" in a separate video and "$15 dollar tags" at the end of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqCd6wgxngk.
This video was put out prior to last season, but after the permit deadline for Wisconsin. Guess what guys and girls, read the "Attention" note on this link: https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/hunt/turkey.
Any of you think this is a coincidence? Does this follow a conservation minded mindset??? Answer that one.
I'm sure Dave's videos influenced a few hunters to apply for Wisconsin but I seriously doubt it was a major contributor.
Covid is the real culprit. Wisconsin sells leftover tags and most folks don't bother to apply for the draw (it save themselves application fees) because they know leftover tags are available. Because of Covid and everyone being out of work, Wisconsin and every other state in the saw record license sales last year. In Wisconsin, leftover tags were snatched up left and right and soon ran out. The hunters that weren't able to pick up a leftover tag made sure they applied for the draw this year. There were also a lot of people introduced to turkey hunting last spring that haven't given it much thought in the past so now they are applying for permits. Add up all those factors and that's the real reason there is a record number of applicants to Wisconsin turkey permits.
Just a side note: Wisconsin has the best season and licensing structure of any other state (imo) and the turkeys are in no danger of being over hunted there. It's just a great system that other states should try to emulate.
Confused me .
Quote from: silent tom on February 17, 2021, 12:51:22 PM
Quote from: simpzenith on February 17, 2021, 12:28:56 PM
Quote from: silent tom on February 17, 2021, 11:50:29 AM
Dave Owens alluded to in his previous post in this thread about the need to be conservation minded.
It's not a secret that he pimped out Wisconsin possibly beyond repair. In his series, he made a couple comments about Wisconsin "being his kind of state" in a separate video and "$15 dollar tags" at the end of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqCd6wgxngk.
This video was put out prior to last season, but after the permit deadline for Wisconsin. Guess what guys and girls, read the "Attention" note on this link: https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/hunt/turkey.
Any of you think this is a coincidence? Does this follow a conservation minded mindset??? Answer that one.
I'm sure Dave's videos influenced a few hunters to apply for Wisconsin but I seriously doubt it was a major contributor.
Covid is the real culprit. Wisconsin sells leftover tags and most folks don't bother to apply for the draw (it save themselves application fees) because they know leftover tags are available. Because of Covid and everyone being out of work, Wisconsin and every other state in the saw record license sales last year. In Wisconsin, leftover tags were snatched up left and right and soon ran out. The hunters that weren't able to pick up a leftover tag made sure they applied for the draw this year. There were also a lot of people introduced to turkey hunting last spring that haven't given it much thought in the past so now they are applying for permits. Add up all those factors and that's the real reason there is a record number of applicants to Wisconsin turkey permits.
Just a side note: Wisconsin has the best season and licensing structure of any other state (imo) and the turkeys are in no danger of being over hunted there. It's just a great system that other states should try to emulate.
Wait and see. If you don't think they can be overhunted, you probably didn't see firsthand what happened to Kansas in the last 10 years.
Right.
I just wish they (the youtubers) would stop saying the word "PUBLIC", stop naming states, and not show towns / road names / landmarks.
Just show turkey hunting, that would be easy enough
Has this been ironed out yet? Full disclosure: I'm too lazy to read all the posts.
Quote from: stinkpickle on February 17, 2021, 04:05:29 PM
Has this been ironed out yet? Full disclosure: I'm too lazy to read all the posts.
Nope. Check back in about a week from now.
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Quote from: Happy on February 17, 2021, 04:07:45 PM
Quote from: stinkpickle on February 17, 2021, 04:05:29 PM
Has this been ironed out yet? Full disclosure: I'm too lazy to read all the posts.
Nope. Check back in about a week from now.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Sweet! Thanks.
As soon as something becomes the "cool" thing to do, the enjoyment factor drops quickly. I'm very concerned to see what turkey hunting will become in the next few years. I've seen firsthand what happened with duck hunting, I live 20 minutes from some of the best flooded timber in Arkansas and used to hunt 45+ days a year, I didn't even buy my stamps this season.
I see this from a slightly different perspective as the majority of you as I'm in the "younger" crowd being 26 years old. I've been turkey hunting for close to 20 years but only really started traveling the past 4-5 because no one in my family did, I thought you just hunted your season from start to finish and it was over. 2018 was the first year that I had enough confidence to start traveling by myself. Just about this time was when I noticed the YouTube craze beginning.
I was as bad as anyone else and immediately became a fanboy for all things Pinhoti. I still greatly enjoy all Dave's videos and most of what he is doing but you're either blind or lying if you say that it's not affecting turkeys in a negative way. I understand the main argument for this, but the money made from license sales are just a drop in the bucket of where state agencies get their money.
I may be way wrong but I would be willing to bet that most of the money comes from guns and ammo sales, and many of the people buying guns and ammo don't even hunt. None of the people making money off of videoing hunts even acknowledge this portion of people.
When I was younger, I remember it being illegal to film on public land in Missouri and I always thought it was odd but I think they saw something like this coming. What is the difference in filming your hunt on public land and posting it to everyone in the world to see and guiding other hunters for a fee, which is illegal in most states as far as I know.
I hope that I'm 100% wrong and all this does nothing but make public hunting better.
Quote from: stinkpickle on February 17, 2021, 04:05:29 PM
Has this been ironed out yet? Full disclosure: I'm too lazy to read all the posts.
No sir it hasn't. Have a feeling more people are sick of the youtubers bs than folks realize. One positive I do see is that we have what appears to be just as many "younger" type hunters that see and realize the situation.
Fdept56
You bring up a good point. Below are links to two articles on funding here in Ohio. Most states are similar. Excise tax on sporting goods and firearms are a huge source of budget funds, these article address that angle as well. Having been an administrator I can tell you license fees are not incidental. What isn't made clear is that these federal Aide dollars are mostly reimbursements. The states have to spend the money first then apply for up to 75% reimbursement. I operated my Fish Hatchery under these terms. Fishing and hunting license sales are how the base line is established for disbursement of funds. Many states put real property up in hock as in-kind contributions to start accessing these funds, kind of like a secured loan. Now once this has been established it becomes a revolving system. That is unless some idiot governor or appointee does something to screw it up, like us money for a non wildlife project. Here are the links.
https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/who-pays-ohio-division-wildlife
https://outdoorswithfrischkorn.blogspot.com/2020/01/ohio-division-of-wildlife-writes-fiscal.html
Maybe we should get our congressmen/women and senators to extend the excise tax to hunting and fishing videos on youtube. Outside of guns and gear and license the youtubers are not contributing anymore than everyone else is....it's more a subtraction.
Quote from: Chad on February 17, 2021, 03:19:59 PM
I just wish they (the youtubers) would stop saying the word "PUBLIC", stop naming states, and not show towns / road names / landmarks.
Just show turkey hunting, that would be easy enough
No doubt. I'm not "Chasing 49". I travel to turkey hunt and have since 2002. I am chasing good hunting. Half the fun is finding the spots on your own!
If most states are smart they will start charging a hefty fee for the right to video anything on public land that is going to be put out on the web. I would really like it if those funds went directly to conservation in those states. Hate to go there but it may need to be done.
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For all animals. Not just turkeys.
Not to ruffle 'feathers' but last I checked this is the UNITED STATES of AMERICA and we all have the right to hunt any state we want, as long as we abide by the laws of the state(s) we hunt. As citizens of a state you also have the right to attend game board meetings and write or speak to state reps and politicians with your concerns; have you? What I read on these posts is a prejudice for out of staters. Dave Owens works hard and so do the other you-tubers. What I think is that we have a bunch of not in my back yard people. I for myself am a USMC veteran from the 70's. I earned the right to see this country and if it is aiming at a turkey this is my choice, no one has a say except the Fish & Game Dept of the state I am hunting in, if I'm hunting public land. This is bigotry, period. If you have a problem with out of staters talk with your Fish & Game Depts. I am a Hunter Safety Volunteer Instructor, are you? What do you do for your state's Fish & Game? You don't live in a Wisconsin vacuum, you live in the USA and you profit from 50 states in that comprises this country, not just your state. I'm sick and tired of this type of hunting debate. If its not turkeys, its deer, elk you name it. We are divided and that is not a good thing. Sorry I have rambled here but what is being espoused by some here is not our shining moment. I love turkey hunting and its rich history of call making and writing on the subject and our relationship with this bird which should be elevated to big game status. Let's find ways to bring ALL of us together and not push us apart. Let's remember the turkey and the turkey hunter is the lowest common denominator between us, no matter where we live or who we are. Lets not........ :TrainWreck1:
We should come together as hunters and agree that people exploiting public lands for profit isn't good for the resource. Isnt good for our states. And isn't a good look for hunters in general.
I guess I should come out and say I have no gripes with anyone doing the utube thing. I don't subscribe to anyone and never will. Heck Dave and the hunting public are the only videos i have seen some of.This is nothing personal with me whatsoever. However I am concerned about wildlife populations as well as good conservation practices. If someone is making a profit off of public lands then it only makes sense that they put back into the system so to speak. Market hunting isn't a huge stretch to make as a comparison and we all know how that turned out. I just think we need to catch up to the times and adjust game laws and regulations to the point that our resources win. That may even mean some sacrifices down the road for me and I am ok with that. I try and make it to where I give more to the land than I receive anyways and am teaching my children the same.
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Quote from: eggshell on February 17, 2021, 05:46:16 PM
Maybe we should get our congressmen/women and senators to extend the excise tax to hunting and fishing videos on youtube. Outside of guns and gear and license the youtubers are not contributing anymore than everyone else is....it's more a subtraction.
it seems pretty clear to me that hunting license, tag, and wma permit sales have gone up, especially nonresident sales, since the public land videos have become popular. So wouldn't that mean that these videos are actually bringing more revenue to the state for wildlife management? It's like free advertising for them. I'm not cool with naming counties, showing road names, gate numbers, etc, and have been a lot more careful with those kind of things myself in the past couple years. But naming the state definitely attracts more people to spend their money in that state, even residents who previously didn't hunt turkey or public land, might go and buy their license/WMA permit and give it a shot.
I get it we don't like too much competition, and keeping your spots to yourself is important, but we need to remember we as hunters are all on the same team, and are stronger in numbers. If there's an issue with wild turkey management, we need to try and find some common ground to agree on, and talk to the people in charge of wildlife management, rather than point fingers at each other and call names.
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Quote from: catman529 on February 17, 2021, 07:38:06 PM
I get it we don't like too much competition, and keeping your spots to yourself is important, but we need to remember we as hunters are all on the same team, and are stronger in numbers. If there's an issue with wild turkey management, we need to try and find some common ground to agree on, and talk to the people in charge of wildlife management, rather than point fingers at each other and call names.
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That's all fine and good but some groups need to be more careful about sharing locations. It's not just gate numbers- A little common sense can be used to track down where they are hunting based on a number of other things that are being shown in the videos. If you want to document hunts, fine....but it just needs to be done in such a way that doesn't attract a ton of attention to where the location is. I'm not going to name names but some of it is the "b-roll" footage they show in the different towns, and the traveling they are doing.
Quoteit seems pretty clear to me that hunting license, tag, and wma permit sales have gone up, especially nonresident sales, since the public land videos have become popular. So wouldn't that mean that these videos are actually bringing more revenue to the state for wildlife management? It's like free advertising for them
I can concede there is truth in that. Whether we like it or not I would venture to guess that as big money makers go, turkey hunting is not one of the big players in most states. Deer, elk, and other big game animals probably way out sell turkeys. Even fishing is a bigger draw in most states. Yet non resident hunting is a big deal economically, as hunters pay more for non resident tags and the money they spend on food, gas and lodging is big. Just speaking for myself, I am not so much against you all doing the video thing or against out of state hunters as some one else said ( I will welcome and help out of staters that are polite and thoughtful, there are some on this forum that can verify that). What I am against is the revealing specific areas. I think a large part of the beef is on that line of thinking, not being resentful of anyone's opportunity to enjoy the sport. When specifics are given it creates situations that are not good for hunters or wildlife. I have found one truth, if you have an area pounded from one of these situations it usually only last a season or two and people then shy away after a few bad experiences.
Oh catman I wasn't being serious on that. I shouldn't of made a sarcastic statement without saying it was such.
Duck hunter here. I can name 5 different places in 3 states that have been overcrowded to the point of changing the migration. All because of the internet, not just youtube. But Youtube reaches a lot of folks as well. My home lake was pretty much turned into a tourist destination thanks to an article in the DU magazine back in the mid 90s. When I called, as a banquet volunteer and long time sponsor to get help from them on the Feds spraying our lake, DU-a supposed conservation organization, told me they were not interested and said the birds will just go somewhere else. Last dime they ever got from me.
I am also a saltwater flats fisherman and have seen the need for changing of the limit on redfish and speckled trout due to out of state fisherman and the internet as well. I have literally seen 50 boats in a half mile stretch of river. All due to loose lips sink ships. Now folks from South Florida are heading north as their fisheries have been wiped out and ours is still more liberal.
Youtube did not create most of those problems, but you can bet that it is going to affect the future of turkey hunting in many areas. It already has.
Call your local game commission and have your voice heard.
I like the thought someone up thread said that any money made from videoing on public land be treated the same as guiding on public land. It is pretty much the same thing.
Someone also said that the public land belongs to everyone. Sorta. Depends if it is state owned or federal too. There are still plenty of restrictions on all public land and regardless if you are in state or out of state, making any profit from public land is a big difference from just hunting in another state. So is trashing it by outing it on the internet.
PS A huge thanks to everyone, with a couple minor exceptions, for keeping this a civil dialogue all while holding very different and conflicting opinions.
Quote from: catman529 on February 17, 2021, 07:38:06 PM
Quote from: eggshell on February 17, 2021, 05:46:16 PM
Maybe we should get our congressmen/women and senators to extend the excise tax to hunting and fishing videos on youtube. Outside of guns and gear and license the youtubers are not contributing anymore than everyone else is....it's more a subtraction.
it seems pretty clear to me that hunting license, tag, and wma permit sales have gone up, especially nonresident sales, since the public land videos have become popular. So wouldn't that mean that these videos are actually bringing more revenue to the state for wildlife management? It's like free advertising for them. I'm not cool with naming counties, showing road names, gate numbers, etc, and have been a lot more careful with those kind of things myself in the past couple years. But naming the state definitely attracts more people to spend their money in that state, even residents who previously didn't hunt turkey or public land, might go and buy their license/WMA permit and give it a shot.
I get it we don't like too much competition, and keeping your spots to yourself is important, but we need to remember we as hunters are all on the same team, and are stronger in numbers. If there's an issue with wild turkey management, we need to try and find some common ground to agree on, and talk to the people in charge of wildlife management, rather than point fingers at each other and call names.
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Some common ground would be you guys quit naming states, showing Corp land, campgrounds, local towns, etc.
If a person is sure enough hunting for the sake of the sport why does it matter where his or her two feet are planted at the time of doing so???
After reading some of this, specifically the Wisconsin increase, I tend to agree with silent toms last post. Now I do believe there is some jealousy in regards to some of these guys and the fame/status they have in the turkey world but the basis of the argument has merit.
Part of the "cool" factor is the turkey tour and traveling to multiple states. If the intent was to just show the hunt there is no reason to name the state or show anything that is not entirely related to the hunt. Start filming on the walk in and quit after the hunt. If it's about the hunt and teaching people the right thing to do that's all that is necessary.
I will say that I don't believe that the YouTube guys have caused the increase entirely. I hunted a WMA in Alabama that is far from where the epicenter of the YouTube guys and it was crowded as hell. Way more than normal. Another instance is how popular Kansas became and how bad it got in terms of hunting pressure followed by collapse of the population. That was all before YouTube, it was word of mouth.
Saying that I think the guys that are traveling to other states should make every effort to not call attention to that state. Due to any number of reasons it could be someone's only public hunting area that becomes the next parking lot on opening day.
So...the sport needs new recruits , but not in my wma county or state...alrighty then
I have mixed feelings on all of this. States should probably do like SC and limit the out of staters more then the residents on number of tags. I know these out of staters pay more for tags and such but in my opinion why should a resident who spends countless hours on trapping and then spends thousands Planting and such have the same number of tags as a guy showing up for 3 days trying to kill a limit. Plus the guys filming are profiting in one way or another. I think give them less tags or come up with a tag earn system. Like trap 10 raccoons, get an extra tag. Something like that.
Quote from: cuttinAR on February 17, 2021, 08:57:50 PM
After reading some of this, specifically the Wisconsin increase, I tend to agree with silent toms last post. Now I do believe there is some jealousy in regards to some of these guys and the fame/status they have in the turkey world but the basis of the argument has merit.
Part of the "cool" factor is the turkey tour and traveling to multiple states. If the intent was to just show the hunt there is no reason to name the state or show anything that is not entirely related to the hunt. Start filming on the walk in and quit after the hunt. If it's about the hunt and teaching people the right thing to do that's all that is necessary.
I will say that I don't believe that the YouTube guys have caused the increase entirely. I hunted a WMA in Alabama that is far from where the epicenter of the YouTube guys and it was crowded as hell. Way more than normal. Another instance is how popular Kansas became and how bad it got in terms of hunting pressure followed by collapse of the population. That was all before YouTube, it was word of mouth.
Saying that I think the guys that are traveling to other states should make every effort to not call attention to that state. Due to any number of reasons it could be someone's only public hunting area that becomes the next parking lot on opening day.
Well said.
I don't believe any of those guys want to overrun an area/state, but are negligent enough at times that people can do a little digging and find out where they were. One person can then tell the masses on one of the many facebook groups with 50k+ members. (I joined one for the first time the other day and was appalled at the information that was flippantly given out every other post.) I don't believe the youtubers are the ones holding a blowtorch to an area, but with their following, they certainly have the potential to be the spark that lights it.
Admittedly, I do enjoy watching hunting videos, and I think a lot of the Youtube content provides more enjoyable "hunting" videos rather than "paying $xxx amount to shoot something" videos seen on the Outdoor Channel.
The suggestions of stopping the unnecessary B-roll and not naming states are good ones, and it would be interesting to see if any of those guys would be receptive to the idea. If not, I encourage anyone that disagrees with filming on public land to contact state agencies / elective representatives and voice those concerns.
It was discouraging to see some less than civil comments in this thread, mainly because I believe most of those guys sincerely do care about the resource. Some are making their living full time hunting, but that doesn't mean they have malicious intent to "pimp out public lands," even when there are negative consequences to their actions.
Quote from: redleg06 on February 17, 2021, 07:52:53 PM
Quote from: catman529 on February 17, 2021, 07:38:06 PM
I get it we don't like too much competition, and keeping your spots to yourself is important, but we need to remember we as hunters are all on the same team, and are stronger in numbers. If there's an issue with wild turkey management, we need to try and find some common ground to agree on, and talk to the people in charge of wildlife management, rather than point fingers at each other and call names.
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That's all fine and good but some groups need to be more careful about sharing locations. It's not just gate numbers- A little common sense can be used to track down where they are hunting based on a number of other things that are being shown in the videos. If you want to document hunts, fine....but it just needs to be done in such a way that doesn't attract a ton of attention to where the location is. I'm not going to name names but some of it is the "b-roll" footage they show in the different towns, and the traveling they are doing.
Trust me I know. Hence my comment about being much more careful what I say or show in the past couple years. I'm not trying to give away honey holes, I'm trying to give advice on finding and hunting turkeys in general and share my hunts with people who want to watch.
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a while back I posted a thread on how we treat each other and I think we all need to dial back our emotions some and think about all sides. I agree with most the videos create problems for not only the resource, but the user when specifics are shared about location. shane, Catman and Dave have all engaged and defended themselves, I respect their willingness to have a a dialog with us. There is a Bible verse that applies in all situations; do unto others as you'd have them do unto you. when doing something it's good to ask yourself, "how would I feel if I were the other person". The local guys are passionate about preserving their resource and the quality of their hunt and the video producers are committing to providing entertainment and educational resources. Let's stop and find some common ground. One thing is for sure, civil discussion is good. I suspect that as they built on their brand none of these guys thought they were doing anything harmful to anyone. Now at least three of them have heard our concerns, let's give them a chance to address them. Maybe they think we have a valid point maybe they don't. I do think we will see states start to address issues if they become harmful to the resource or their constituents, which are residents first, then everyone else. Lost in this is there are a lot of hunters who simply don't have other options to travel or hunt elsewhere. A hunter lives and pays taxes and has his home in a community and he has a local WMA or state forest as his only place or best place to turkey hunt. Every year he contends with other people and they all find time and space. Then one year someone from another state rolls in and broadcast this spot to literally the world and the following year he rolls up and finds there is not even a place to park. Of course it's public and everyone has a right, but he has no option in his own back yard. Sure you can say he needs to just deal with it because it's public, but I understand why he's pissed too. The guy who lead them all here is gone after a 2-3 day visit and is off somewhere else doing his thing, but poor ole local is stuck in the carnage. This will probably last a few years or may be ruined for a long time. He used to have private land to hunt, but after all the shows and videos about how great the hunting is in XYZ out of state money bags have leased up all the farm ground. One simple rule would help alleviate all this grief...,don't reveal locations!
You cant even mention states? Pretty extreme. I don't have the time and luxury to go out to any out of state hunts. I spend enough on leases so I can go to different places in my home state. Only hunted 2 states and quit that 10 years ago as K got too crazy but was less pressure than here. State land around here is overrun and has been for many years. Many state lands are full of out of staters. We don't drive by people hunting in a spot because we have parking lots. If they were not for people from out of state we would have some pretty good hunting. Deer hunters who have to travel a few hours can't get a room because of out of staters booking up years in advance.
All this started before you tube .
Anyway agree some on both sides and wouldn't want to have any more hunters now especially with the population of turkey being what they are.
Quote from: eggshell on February 17, 2021, 10:33:49 PM
a while back I posted a thread on how we treat each other and I think we all need to dial back our emotions some and think about all sides. I agree with most the videos create problems for not only the resource, but the user when specifics are shared about location. shane, Catman and Dave have all engaged and defended themselves, I respect their willingness to have a a dialog with us. There is a Bible verse that applies in all situations; do unto others as you'd have them do unto you. when doing something it's good to ask yourself, "how would I feel if I were the other person". The local guys are passionate about preserving their resource and the quality of their hunt and the video producers are committing to providing entertainment and educational resources. Let's stop and find some common ground. One thing is for sure, civil discussion is good. I suspect that as they built on their brand none of these guys thought they were doing anything harmful to anyone. Now at least three of them have heard our concerns, let's give them a chance to address them. Maybe they think we have a valid point maybe they don't. I do think we will see states start to address issues if they become harmful to the resource or their constituents, which are residents first, then everyone else. Lost in this is there are a lot of hunters who simply don't have other options to travel or hunt elsewhere. A hunter lives and pays taxes and has his home in a community and he has a local WMA or state forest as his only place or best place to turkey hunt. Every year he contends with other people and they all find time and space. Then one year someone from another state rolls in and broadcast this spot to literally the world and the following year he rolls up and finds there is not even a place to park. Of course it's public and everyone has a right, but he has no option in his own back yard. Sure you can say he needs to just deal with it because it's public, but I understand why he's pissed too. The guy who lead them all here is gone after a 2-3 day visit and is off somewhere else doing his thing, but poor ole local is stuck in the carnage. This will probably last a few years or may be ruined for a long time. He used to have private land to hunt, but after all the shows and videos about how great the hunting is in XYZ out of state money bags have leased up all the farm ground. One simple rule would help alleviate all this grief...,don't reveal locations!
Great post eggshell! Pretty well sums things up. :icon_thumright:
THPs latest video is a prime example what not to do.
If you've spent any time looking at OnX or satellite/topo maps in general you can figure out where they are in no time. Being from Maryland it took me less than 5 minutes. At no point should they be looking at OnX with a camera over their shoulder, they basically shared a pin. I appreciate their attempt to hide it based on the order they put the video together but I can put a pin within a quarter mile of where they had one.
As it's taking them 7 days to kill a bird, unlike the easy to kill states down south ;D , I don't expect an explosion in pressure this spring. In the event they were piling up birds in these videos, I'd make note and possibly avoid that area.
Blame is not all on them though. For anyone who wasn't sure after watching the video all they need to do is review the comments and there you will find jackasses making sure everyone knows exactly where they are.
I commented early on in this thread and after seeing Dave commented I read through his and others and I understand both sides. I love watching the style of hunting these guys bring. It's the "average guy" learning a place and hunting extremely hard. It's what I want to watch on tv. It excites me, it lights a fire, and gets me excited to hit the next state and go on my next hunt. In Wyoming, turkey hunting isn't locally popular. We don't have any very close at all, so it requires traveling and is a different mindset that most don't share. I have a very meager following here in the western states, even smaller on YouTube, and probably even smaller than that that watch any of my turkey hunting videos. With that said, I've went and removed the states from the titles. It might be something I revisit in the future and it will definitely result in fewer "clicks" as people research their state or states they plan on going to and enjoy watching those videos about them but I'm okay with that. I realize you can't make everybody happy, and again my small contribution literally means nothing, but I guess in the end I don't want reason for people to take the wind out of my sails this coming turkey season as I simply try and show a different aspect of what the YouTube giants have already done.
Before I end my pointless ramblings, I would say everybody shares a common courtesy to keep spots safe. If you know where these guys are, don't comment, and maybe even bring awareness to the fact that people are commenting on the spots. I delete a lot of comments, but I get a whole lot less and it's easy for me to keep up on. I imagine it's impossible for those guys.
Quote from: POk3s on February 20, 2021, 12:20:01 PM
I commented early on in this thread and after seeing Dave commented I read through his and others and I understand both sides. I love watching the style of hunting these guys bring. It's the "average guy" learning a place and hunting extremely hard. It's what I want to watch on tv. It excites me, it lights a fire, and gets me excited to hit the next state and go on my next hunt. In Wyoming, turkey hunting isn't locally popular. We don't have any very close at all, so it requires traveling and is a different mindset that most don't share. I have a very meager following here in the western states, even smaller on YouTube, and probably even smaller than that that watch any of my turkey hunting videos. With that said, I've went and removed the states from the titles. It might be something I revisit in the future and it will definitely result in fewer "clicks" as people research their state or states they plan on going to and enjoy watching those videos about them but I'm okay with that. I realize you can't make everybody happy, and again my small contribution literally means nothing, but I guess in the end I don't want reason for people to take the wind out of my sails this coming turkey season as I simply try and show a different aspect of what the YouTube giants have already done.
Before I end my pointless ramblings, I would say everybody shares a common courtesy to keep spots safe. If you know where these guys are, don't comment, and maybe even bring awareness to the fact that people are commenting on the spots. I delete a lot of comments, but I get a whole lot less and it's easy for me to keep up on. I imagine it's impossible for those guys.
Props to you!
And you are right, you will get less views. That is why the big YouTubers will continue to name states. If they all took the same approach as you, they'd still be recruiting plenty of hunters, selling more licenses, but not causing the 'gold rush' syndrome that is ruining the quality of some of our public lands. Once again, I commend you for your actions. It shows you truly care.
Like some others have said, I hate to chastise this guys too much for being able to make a living doing what they love, but something has really irked me lately about THP. I noticed on a few of their Instagram posts that they will say "Sponsored by Tennessee DNR" or something to that effect. Are they really taking money from states to hunt their public land? Further, are states really paying people to show off their public lands? I understand that it will cause people to want to travel there but that is doing nothing but hurting these places. Hopefully someone knows a little more about this.
One can say what they want about the need for hunter recruitment, but turkey hunting is 3 fold or probably even more than it was 20+ years ago. I don't believe hunter recruitment was a viable reason for these guys to start YouTube channels. I would bet that wasn't even on the radar. They can honestly answer that if they want. To share what they love to do? Sure, I understand that. I don't begrudge them for doing it, but agree with others.... why even name states or show campgrounds, etc.?? It's not necessary. For sponsors like OnX, it's about $$$, and these guys are the platform. It's not about hunter recruitment or the betterment of the resource. It's simply about the bottom line. Now the animal has been unleashed. It's amazing how many now have YouTube channels, many of which won't adhere to any parameters. Most just don't know any better. Just as many don't know any better than to share specifics or photos at WMA signs on FB or forums. I'm not naming names, but a YouTube video was brought to attention of guys wearing a strutter decoy on a helmet? Is that good the sport?? If you argue, "well if it's legal" then we can just agree to disagree. I would say social media and technology has done more negative for the resource than positives.
The bottom line is we live in a world of "likes" "shares" and "follows" The YouTube superstars will only continue to grow every year....that's a fact. Private land lease prices will continue to go through the roof, and push even more hunters to Public land. The overall available U.S. land to hunt decreases every year (4,200 acres per day) as the overall population increases every year.
Do the math, the public land pressure will only get worse every year. Public land turkey hunting in Florida is already a total $hit show. This goes for many southern states, the western states will be the same in the not so distant future.
The bottom line is that youtube isn't going away, so hunters are going to have to learn to deal with the added pressure. I think a lot of people have a bad taste in their mouth from all of the extra hunters that were in the woods last season due to Covid. Sure, it might not be hard to tell where these guys are if you have a decent amount of competence with maps, but there will still be turkeys there. There are plenty of places to hunt, so if there is an influx of pressure in a particular spot, why not drive to another? Sure it might take a little extra effort, but there is nothing wrong with that.
The guys who are willing to put forth a little extra effort will still kill turkeys, the guys that aren't willing to will continue to find something to complain about.
Im opposed to any mention of WMA names, trailhead numbers, road names, displaying OnX aerial maps or anything that can pinpoint a location, but I've only seen that a couple of times on the folks that I watch and only one of those was a turkey hunt. However, I don't go digging to see if I can find where they are hunting. It looks like a few of the whiners here are doing just that.
I suppose if you have to blame pressure or your inability to kill a turkey on something, the YouTube guys are an easy target. It used to be the forums that got blamed and before that it was magazine articles.
Quote from: POk3s on February 20, 2021, 12:20:01 PM
I commented early on in this thread and after seeing Dave commented I read through his and others and I understand both sides. I love watching the style of hunting these guys bring. It's the "average guy" learning a place and hunting extremely hard. It's what I want to watch on tv. It excites me, it lights a fire, and gets me excited to hit the next state and go on my next hunt. In Wyoming, turkey hunting isn't locally popular. We don't have any very close at all, so it requires traveling and is a different mindset that most don't share. I have a very meager following here in the western states, even smaller on YouTube, and probably even smaller than that that watch any of my turkey hunting videos. With that said, I've went and removed the states from the titles. It might be something I revisit in the future and it will definitely result in fewer "clicks" as people research their state or states they plan on going to and enjoy watching those videos about them but I'm okay with that. I realize you can't make everybody happy, and again my small contribution literally means nothing, but I guess in the end I don't want reason for people to take the wind out of my sails this coming turkey season as I simply try and show a different aspect of what the YouTube giants have already done.
Before I end my pointless ramblings, I would say everybody shares a common courtesy to keep spots safe. If you know where these guys are, don't comment, and maybe even bring awareness to the fact that people are commenting on the spots. I delete a lot of comments, but I get a whole lot less and it's easy for me to keep up on. I imagine it's impossible for those guys.
Kudos to you for this. Wish there were more adapting this approach. :z-winnersmiley:
I hunted public in three states last year, ran into 2 guys in the woods and one was at a parking spot. You can still avoid folks! Fortunately I am able to hunt during the week mostly though.
I am sure the activity has increased but I started hunting these birds in the early 90s and public land had the same stigma.
The first few times I hunted Missouri on public was in the mid 90s, and the pressure was crazy, however the locals seemed to just ride the gravel listening for gobbles, my cousin killed his first bird there while a guy was hooting at them from the road!
We are a major minority in this country and with the current clown show in Government we need em all!!!
Quote from: Hobbes on February 22, 2021, 12:05:50 PM
I'm opposed to any mention of WMA names, trailhead numbers, road names, displaying OnX aerial maps or anything that can pinpoint a location, but I've only seen that a couple of times on the folks that I watch and only one of those was a turkey hunt. However, I don't go digging to see if I can find where they are hunting.
Agreed. I personally find it surprising that turkey hunters seem to want to seek out places to go hunt based on figuring out where someone else hunts. As far as I can tell, there are hundreds of millions of acres of public land in this country open for hunting, much of which has turkeys on it. Don't want to hunt turkeys in the crowds? Stop looking for the places where the crowds will be and go find the places where they aren't. I guarantee you there are still plenty of those places left in this country.
If someone's dedication as a turkey hunter extends only to the point of wanting to drive five, ten, or fifteen minutes from his house and have a public hunting spot all to himself on a Saturday morning, then my first thought is that maybe that individual is not dedicated enough,...as well as not being realistic.
One recent video by one of the YouTuber's in question shows him driving all night long from his home to hunt another state for a couple of days at the end of the season. That's dedication, gentlemen and ladies! If you want to get away from the crowds to turkey hunt, then try that on for size!
I only have one philosophy when it comes to killing turkeys....I kill em where I find them. I have killed them 75 yards from the truck and 5 miles from the truck. You'd be surprised how many birds are walked and driven past.
I'm on board with what you are saying Gobblenut. I'll add this though, I don't drive hours to find unpressured gobblers, I drive hours so that I have more tags to fill. I think that's what you'll find with most folks, they are driving to extend their season and more opportunities. I kill my one local bird with the masses then move on to other regions, some with less pressure and some with more. (I'll admit that "masses" is a relative term and spring turkey hunter numbers in MT are a small fraction of what most of you find back East.)
I walk miles to find birds if necessary but I'll gladly call one in within spitting distance of the road if I find him there. I've not noticed any difference with the folks mentioned on YouTube.
To use a term that one of my teenagers used to use.......Some of you guys need to spend more time hunting and planning your own hunts instead of walking around "butt hurt" over a few YouTube channels. :)
Heck.....plan a trip to kill a Merriam's in someone else's backyard.
I hear that Hobbs, I travel for tags not to avoid pressure, That is why I like the Midwest, I can hunt 4 or 5 states in 10 days and kill 5-10 birds or more if it goes really well!
I am living out west now so not sure what my Midwest hunts will look like? But I have plans to hunt 2 states out here and all on public.
Where are you located now? I used to go back home to the Midwest yearly from Colorado, but Montana added quite a bit of travel time.
I don`t over think this deal. I take it as entertainment.
Quote from: Old Timer on February 23, 2021, 01:23:49 PM
I don`t over think this deal. I take it as entertainment.
Yes!
Quote from: Hobbes on February 23, 2021, 01:37:38 PM
Quote from: Old Timer on February 23, 2021, 01:23:49 PM
I don`t over think this deal. I take it as entertainment.
Yes!
You know, I agree with this statement in that spring gobbler hunting started out for me as just another "hunting thing to do in the springtime" form of entertainment. Somehow, some way, it just morphed into something a lot bigger and more important to me. From what I can see here on OG, there are an awful lot of folks that had the same thing happen to them. ::)
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 23, 2021, 02:07:49 PM
Quote from: Hobbes on February 23, 2021, 01:37:38 PM
Quote from: Old Timer on February 23, 2021, 01:23:49 PM
I don`t over think this deal. I take it as entertainment.
Yes!
You know, I agree with this statement in that spring gobbler hunting started out for me as just another "hunting thing to do in the springtime" form of entertainment. Somehow, some way, it just morphed into something a lot bigger and more important to me. From what I can see here on OG, there are an awful lot of folks that had the same thing happen to them. ::)
YouTube is the entertainment. Spring turkey hunting is an obsession. ;D
To be successful- all these Utube Channels+ Hunting Groups obviously their #1 Thing to do is to make sure to walk on in before anyone one else.
But by now all these Channels ( stopped looking at # 10)- must have run into a Super Serious Local like me who has no problem walking on in at 3.40am or 3.30am.
That's what,I do if,I see headlights pulling in. I just walk in 15 or 20 minutes earlier.
Just curious- I wonder how many times these Utube Channel Groups had to go to plan B because a Local Turkey Fanatic was in their area that studied on and had chose.
That must have happened by now.
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 23, 2021, 02:07:49 PM
Quote from: Hobbes on February 23, 2021, 01:37:38 PM
Quote from: Old Timer on February 23, 2021, 01:23:49 PM
I don`t over think this deal. I take it as entertainment.
Yes!
You know, I agree with this statement in that spring gobbler hunting started out for me as just another "hunting thing to do in the springtime" form of entertainment. Somehow, some way, it just morphed into something a lot bigger and more important to me.
Amen.
I'm not one of the ones blaming YouTube for my lack of success in the spring woods. I am one of the ones that had his life completely changed by turkey hunting. I am one of the ones who structures his life around turkey hunting. I actually even chose a career path that involves managing public lands, including turkey hunting.
I care. I care about the hunting quality of areas I've hunted previously, even if I'll never go back. I care about the locals who have had their primary public hunting spots overrun with hunters that otherwise wouldn't be there without social media. I care about hunting opportunity and don't want it taken away from us. I care about all things wild turkey.
I have access to information on draw hunt data that shows direct correlations between YouTubers highlighting an area and a giant jump in applicants to those spots the following springs. And here is a tip, you have access to that information too. If not available on the state's game and fish website, you can simply ask for the data (coin it: "Formal Information Request"). Florida, Tennessee, and Wisconsin have all given me the data in the past week. I had planned on analyzing the data more and putting it into a presentable form to post, but I'm simply running out of time now due to turkey season approaching. I'll say this, if you want a south Florida Osceola, you better start working towards it NOW! For those of you familiar with point creep, it is steadily getting worse the past 3 years. After being dang near stable the previous decade.
I've saw many areas/regions rise and fall over the years. No matter how long its been since I've hunted an area, I still get sad when I see it falling. Most of us travel to explore new ground and have a quality hunting experience. I believe it is important to maintain that quality hunting experience. If folks would just quit naming states, a lot of this would die down. It'd make the folks worshipping these YouTubers work a little harder to get their info.
A few things I've noticed from these threads:
-The YouTubers will always defends the YouTubers. Which is completely understandable.
-The majority of hunters who adamantly defend them aren't hardcore traveling turkey hunters themselves and/or haven't had their public lands affected YET
-A lot of hunters who don't see the issue with YouTube and social media are not from the southeast where turkey numbers have taken big downturns in recent years in a lot of areas and public land pressure can get absolutely ridiculous. The southeasterners are a whole 'nother breed of turkey hunter and I think most will vouch for this.
-I see many defenders from states/regions where turkeys are still in somewhat of a boom and the turkey hunting culture is not near as strong as it is down south. The tide will turn fellas. Populations are cyclical. Always have been. Believe me, your turkey won't be at that high forever.
-More hunters are coming out to post their negative experiences. Yet they are often told they are making excuses for their lack of success (even though a lot are extremely successful turkey hunters) or are told to suck it up and find a new area.
One bright side to all the discussion. More people are becoming aware of the potential impacts and implications. Including the producers. A lot of great ideas and discussion points have also been brought up. And to their credit, basically all the YouTubers causing an impact do in fact exhibit public land etiquette. Which hopefully rubs off on the ones following their footsteps.
Continue forth!
Very good post above DeerHunt1988!!
deerhunt1988, while I think you've hit on some of the contributors, it's not a one size fits all and I think painting with a broad brush is why we can't make progress on this topic (or most things in this country) For example:
-The YouTubers will always defends the YouTubers. Which is completely understandable. - Ageed
-The majority of hunters who adamantly defend them aren't hardcore traveling turkey hunters themselves and/or haven't had their public lands affected YET - I'm not sure if I'm defending, but I'm sure not attacking them and I have seen an impact to my local area.
-A lot of hunters who don't see the issue with YouTube and social media are not from the southeast where turkey numbers have taken big downturns in recent years in a lot of areas and public land pressure can get absolutely ridiculous. The southeasterners are a whole 'nother breed of turkey hunter and I think most will vouch for this. - I live in TN and hunt the SE.
-I see many defenders from states/regions where turkeys are still in somewhat of a boom and the turkey hunting culture is not near as strong as it is down south. The tide will turn fellas. Populations are cyclical. Always have been. Believe me, your turkey won't be at that high forever. - Where I live in TN, we're seeing a huge decrease.
-More hunters are coming out to post their negative experiences. Yet they are often told they are making excuses for their lack of success (even though a lot are extremely successful turkey hunters) or are told to suck it up and find a new area. - Agree, probably not the root cause.
One bright side to all the discussion. More people are becoming aware of the potential impacts and implications. Including the producers. A lot of great ideas and discussion points have also been brought up. And to their credit, basically all the YouTubers causing an impact do in fact exhibit public land etiquette. Which hopefully rubs off on the ones following their footsteps.
I've been alive long enough to see the ebb and flow of deer, turkey and small game hunting. It's really difficult to pin all the issues on YouTube or social media. I'm sure they contribute, but given there have been challenges in the past, prior to these resources, it's difficult to say this is the root cause. Of course we can learn and do better, but I can't see any defined causation link from pressure on public land, tied exclusively to YouTube.
You're correct that I'm not in a state that the turkey hunting YouTubers will affect very much. If you are under the impression that it's limited to turkeys look at the number of guys doing the same thing with big game hunting out west. Also, don't assume that you have the market cornered on a love of turkeys because you are in the Southeast. I've hunted the Southeast some and lived much closer at one time, I understand the difference in hunting culture. Point creep has existed forever in the West so it's nothing new. Go to sites like Rokslide and you'll see Western guys with the same complaints about elk and mule deer.
I'm not defending the YouTube guys necessarily, but it's not going away.
I shouldn't have started in on this. Carry on without me.
Deerhunt1988 is 100% correct. If you deny the facts then you deny the facts. But remember you were warned.
It's obvious that YouTube draws hunters to locations based on the facts presented in this thread. I still stand by they should title the videos 5-10-21 Midwest, Southeast, Mid-Atlantic, etc and make it more regional. It's still shows the travel aspect which is a draw to their tours but is more ambiguous. I think that's a compromise for all sides.
It's not all YouTube though and that needs to be acknowledged by some. For instance, no one in their right mind has my home state of Arkansas as a destination for spring turkey. However, our WMA applications were up 35 percent this year compared to last. That's independent of YouTube and likely from new people introduced last spring during Covid. Overcrowding is a real issue and one to be taken seriously but let's see all sides.
Quote from: cuttinAR on February 24, 2021, 08:04:11 PM
It's not all YouTube though and that needs to be acknowledged by some. For instance, no one in their right mind has my home state of Arkansas as a destination for spring turkey. However, our WMA applications were up 35 percent this year compared to last. That's independent of YouTube and likely from new people introduced last spring during Covid. Overcrowding is a real issue and one to be taken seriously but let's see all sides.
....And yet, some of the folks that are screaming "public lands are too crowded" are the very same ones that are preaching "we gotta recruit more hunters". How is that working out for you where you hunt?... :angel9: ;D
Maybe just recruit the hunters with access to private land . lol
Quote from: Hobbes on February 24, 2021, 10:38:40 AM
You're correct that I'm not in a state that the turkey hunting YouTubers will affect very much. If you are under the impression that it's limited to turkeys look at the number of guys doing the same thing with big game hunting out west. Also, don't assume that you have the market cornered on a love of turkeys because you are in the Southeast. I've hunted the Southeast some and lived much closer at one time, I understand the difference in hunting culture. Point creep has existed forever in the West so it's nothing new. Go to sites like Rokslide and you'll see Western guys with the same complaints about elk and mule deer.
I'm not defending the YouTube guys necessarily, but it's not going away.
I shouldn't have started in on this. Carry on without me.
No doubt its happening to big game. Many states are receiving record numbers of applications out there too. I'm extremely familiar with western state big game and draw systems and am vested in a bunch of them myself. Never said point creep was new. But, it has never really been an issue before in turkey hunting because the demand wasn't there. Now it is. South Florida is headed the way of a good elk tag! And a good chance Florida may end up limiting non-residents on quota hunts to protect their residents. If this happens, very likely non-residents will be waiting 5-10+ years for a south Florida quota hunt. Where for the decade prior, you could get down there about every other year. By the way, I actually have the Florida draw data from 2017-18 season through now. It shows everything. But I've been 'mentally' tracking some of the draws since ~2008. Creep didn't start taking a toll until in the last couple years for some reason....
Never claim I had the 'market cornered'. But its no secret southeast turkey hunters are on another level compared to most other regions of the U.S. And the lengths some of these hunters will go through.....You just don't see it near as often elsewhere.
No doubt its not going anyway. But when an act as simple as not naming states can help reduce the effects, why not? Oh yeah, YoUtUbE vIeWs!
Quote from: cuttinAR on February 24, 2021, 08:04:11 PM
It's not all YouTube though and that needs to be acknowledged by some. For instance, no one in their right mind has my home state of Arkansas as a destination for spring turkey. However, our WMA applications were up 35 percent this year compared to last. That's independent of YouTube and likely from new people introduced last spring during Covid. Overcrowding is a real issue and one to be taken seriously but let's see all sides.
The Arkansas increased surprised me as well. I do agree COVID is the bulk of that, but still believe social media is a contributing factor as well. I know way too many people from multiple states starting to travel to hunt for the first time due to seeing so much about it on social media. Which is great! I just hope most have the sense not to post about any 'hot spots' they find all over social media.
Interestingly enough, I have the TN draw data and they had a 35% increase in WMA apps too. Went from 2,375 applicants in 2020 to 3,205 in 2021. They couldn't provide me with the number of resident vs non-resident apps. That is what I was wanting to analyze because the amount of TN talk has exploded over the past couple years.
I've also heard from a reliable source that Mississippi WMAs saw a 30-40%+ increase in applicants for a lot of WMAs.
Regardless of the cause, we can't deny public lands are bout to CROWDED! Spring 2020 wasn't a lone anomaly.
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 24, 2021, 08:10:36 PM
Quote from: cuttinAR on February 24, 2021, 08:04:11 PM
It's not all YouTube though and that needs to be acknowledged by some. For instance, no one in their right mind has my home state of Arkansas as a destination for spring turkey. However, our WMA applications were up 35 percent this year compared to last. That's independent of YouTube and likely from new people introduced last spring during Covid. Overcrowding is a real issue and one to be taken seriously but let's see all sides.
....And yet, some of the folks that are screaming "public lands are too crowded" are the very same ones that are preaching "we gotta recruit more hunters". How is that working out for you where you hunt?... :angel9: ;D
This right here. It makes my skin crawl everytime somebody uses hunter number declines to justify whatever their agenda is. Come down here where I hunt and see if there is a hunter decline. Its absurd. All about the all mighty dollar.
I think there are a LOT of people on this forum that are simply just mad there are people hunting the same land as you and killing more turkeys and making money while doing it. With the same resources you have. Some people just pimped out the public land and made a dollar. That's capitalism. Heck I wish I made money to go hunt on public land for free but that isn't realistic to me. The biggest YouTube issue for me are the copy cats. There are 10-20 guys on YouTube right now who are trying so hard to make pinhoti videos down to the b roll it's laughable. It isn't the youtubers y'all have named. They been doing it for a while. My opinion it's the ones who wanna imitate it.
Deerhunt1988 ,I agree with much of what you are writing about. Now ,I am starting to think that the Tremendous Popularity of Hiking + Especially Mountain Biking up here in New York + New Jersey on all Public Lands might help the Local Hunters and keep the Utube Channel/ Groups away as the Mountain Bikers get out at the crack of Dawn and Love to Bike around Fields as well as trails.
I don't know if Mountain Biking is as popular down South- but up North here- it grows in popularity every Spring.
:popcorn:
Quote from: kytrkyhntr on February 25, 2021, 09:02:38 AM
I think there are a LOT of people on this forum that are simply just mad there are people hunting the same land as you and killing more turkeys and making money while doing it. With the same resources you have. Some people just pimped out the public land and made a dollar. That's capitalism. Heck I wish I made money to go hunt on public land for free but that isn't realistic to me. The biggest YouTube issue for me are the copy cats. There are 10-20 guys on YouTube right now who are trying so hard to make pinhoti videos down to the b roll it's laughable. It isn't the youtubers y'all have named. They been doing it for a while. My opinion it's the ones who wanna imitate it.
when theres no turkeys left to hunt....you will be mad. when the government tells you theres fewer hunters than ever...yet the places you hunt have drastically more hunters than you've seen in your lifetime with the added bonus of less turkeys ....you should be mad. Not to say its exclusively anyones fault, or there is any malicious intent with the making of video content. But yes I understand why it bothers people...I completely understand even if they aren't right...and im not mad at youtube, but I understand completely how one could be.
Quote from: quavers59 on February 25, 2021, 09:08:21 AM
Deerhunt1988 ,I agree with much of what you are writing about. Now ,I am starting to think that the Tremendous Popularity of Hiking + Especially Mountain Biking up here in New York + New Jersey on all Public Lands might help the Local Hunters and keep the Utube Channel/ Groups away as the Mountain Bikers get out at the crack of Dawn and Love to Bike around Fields as well as trails.
I don't know if Mountain Biking is as popular down South- but up North here- it grows in popularity every Spring.
We have some of that down here but dirt bikes running all over land where motor vehicles aren't allowed is the big one. Lol
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I love watching the videos but they have sure pimped out and ruins some spots for some folks
Quote from: Cull_none on March 03, 2021, 03:02:50 PM
I love watching the videos but they have sure pimped out and ruins some spots for some folks
For a LOT of folks.
People need to go to the "youtubers" social media pages. Look at the shares, "reactions", and comments.
They are reaching an audience far bigger than most realize. And doing it for next to nothing. The revenue on most of these videos won't even cover the cost of gas or a license out of state.
Google "youtube monetization rates" and get a good look at what our public lands are being pimped out for...
Quote from: Howie g on February 15, 2021, 03:56:09 PM
You tubers / facebookers / twitters/ coyotes / skunks / hawks / owls / coons /coonasses / arkies / loggers /
Corn hunters / decoy deployers / tss / Democrats / fire ants / cut overs / reaper fanners / hogs /
And last but not least ,, covid !! Even with all this ,,, I can't wait till it opens so I can get after these unbelievable survival artists!
Finally! A post I agree with! :you_rock:
I've watched them all and will continue to be what some of you call a "fan boy" of the youtube hunters. If the majority of you who are bitching would turn in your friends who you know shoot over the limit each year and trap some nest predators you'd be doing way more for the wild turkey than trying to shame someone who has figured out how to supplement their income while traveling and hunting.
Quote from: dublelung on March 04, 2021, 10:32:39 AM
Quote from: Howie g on February 15, 2021, 03:56:09 PM
You tubers / facebookers / twitters/ coyotes / skunks / hawks / owls / coons /coonasses / arkies / loggers /
Corn hunters / decoy deployers / tss / Democrats / fire ants / cut overs / reaper fanners / hogs /
And last but not least ,, covid !! Even with all this ,,, I can't wait till it opens so I can get after these unbelievable survival artists!
Finally! A post I agree with! :you_rock:
I've watched them all and will continue to be what some of you call a "fan boy" of the youtube hunters. If the majority of you who are bitching would turn in your friends who you know shoot over the limit each year and trap some nest predators you'd be doing way more for the wild turkey than trying to shame someone who has figured out how to supplement their income while traveling and hunting.
LOL How do you know that they DON'T turn in friends that shoot over their limit and trap predators?
This thread turned silly about 10 pages ago, if not before. Y'all have fun.
Bout like a pic of a shot X-rayed turkey head silly ??
Quote from: Howie g on March 04, 2021, 07:25:30 PM
Bout like a pic of a shot X-rayed turkey head silly ??
That's funny.
Quote from: Howie g on March 04, 2021, 07:25:30 PM
Bout like a pic of a shot X-rayed turkey head silly ??
yeah that's about right. It is intended to be silly.
I watch them too (not all of them, but a few). No apology from me to anyone. I do feel for folks that may have had their spots burned by someone. At this point, everyone has their mind made up about how they feel about it.
One day the grandson visited grandma in the backwoods. She still heated with a wood stove and had an outhouse. when the grandson had to use the bathroom he griped about the outhouse and not long later he griped about it being to cold in the house. Then he griped grandma didn't have satellite or cable, then he griped she didn't have internet.
Finally grandma spoke up and said, I have shLt in that outhouse for 70 years and I'm no worse for wear, but it would be nice to not have to go out there in winter or blazing heat. Tell you what, I'll pay for the materials if you'll build me a new fangled bathroom, all she got was a mumbled reply, Then grandma said if your cold there is a pile of wood out back that needs brought in. She also said there's a chain saw and maul in the shed to cut more. Next she said, "if i want something to watch I sit in the swing on the porch and watch nature. She also said, I don't need to know what my neighbor is doing today unless I see him in my garden. So here are your options dear child, quit griping and get to work or go home, I am tired of you ruining my peace.
I'm new to this forum so i know my opinion is not worth much but a couple things i would like to comment on.
First i found this thread because of a thp podcast where this very topic was discussed and how they have to approach things going forward. So they are actively talking about this among their community.
Second i have watched and enjoy all of thp pinhoti and catmans videos. With that said i have learned more about the specifics on what wma's they have hunted from this thread than i have from any of their videos. I found this thread with 1 simple google search so some of the posts in this thread are at least as "harmful" as those youtube videos. The irony of people complaining about information being shared through social media on a social media platform whose sole purpose is to share information is palpable.
The other thing i think that hasn't been discussed is more hunters on public land mean more people that have an investment in retaining our public lands. I may be in the minority but i think the greatest threat to public land hunting will be those lands getting sold off and leased to corporations. However if there are more people hunting those lands mean more people voting to retain said lands.
Quote from: HillclimberWV on March 05, 2021, 09:03:15 AM
I'm new to this forum so i know my opinion is not worth much but a couple things i would like to comment on.
First i found this thread because of a thp podcast where this very topic was discussed and how they have to approach things going forward. So they are actively talking about this among their community.
Second i have watched and enjoy all of thp pinhoti and catmans videos. With that said i have learned more about the specifics on what wma's they have hunted from this thread than i have from any of their videos. I found this thread with 1 simple google search so some of the posts in this thread are at least as "harmful" as those youtube videos. The irony of people complaining about information being shared through social media on a social media platform whose sole purpose is to share information is palpable.
The other thing i think that hasn't been discussed is more hunters on public land mean more people that have an investment in retaining our public lands. I may be in the minority but i think the greatest threat to public land hunting will be those lands getting sold off and leased to corporations. However if there are more people hunting those lands mean more people voting to retain said lands.
I agree on more hunters is good. What is not good is our access is being removed. Im on another forum for waterfowl. Those guys are always scheeming up ideas to remove opportunities from hunters in order to reduce pressure. Ill say it til im blue in the face... The number of hunters isnt the problem. We need more hunters to protect our sport. If you keep on regulating people out of opportunities, there will be no hunters left, and hunters will be outnumbered and have no leg left to stand on when they come to take it from us. What we NEED to be focusing on is increasing access and opportunities for hunters, and bringing more people INTO the sport. Until we realise that and act on it, we will continue to see our sport decline.
Couldn't agree more Pluffmud
Quote from: HillclimberWV on March 05, 2021, 09:03:15 AM
I'm new to this forum so i know my opinion is not worth much but a couple things i would like to comment on.
First i found this thread because of a thp podcast where this very topic was discussed and how they have to approach things going forward. So they are actively talking about this among their community.
Second i have watched and enjoy all of thp pinhoti and catmans videos. With that said i have learned more about the specifics on what wma's they have hunted from this thread than i have from any of their videos. I found this thread with 1 simple google search so some of the posts in this thread are at least as "harmful" as those youtube videos. The irony of people complaining about information being shared through social media on a social media platform whose sole purpose is to share information is palpable.
The other thing i think that hasn't been discussed is more hunters on public land mean more people that have an investment in retaining our public lands. I may be in the minority but i think the greatest threat to public land hunting will be those lands getting sold off and leased to corporations. However if there are more people hunting those lands mean more people voting to retain said lands.
Would anyone be talking it about or posting on forums if they had made it less obvious where they were hunting in their vids? How hard is it say a region like southeast or midwest instead of namimg a state? Hell I've seen some of them show campsites and road sign in the b roll! Would just naming a freaking region make the video less enjoyable for you? Mam some of yall fan boys really love u some youtubers!
Quote from: Stoeger_bird on March 05, 2021, 01:10:11 PM
Quote from: HillclimberWV on March 05, 2021, 09:03:15 AM
I'm new to this forum so i know my opinion is not worth much but a couple things i would like to comment on.
First i found this thread because of a thp podcast where this very topic was discussed and how they have to approach things going forward. So they are actively talking about this among their community.
Second i have watched and enjoy all of thp pinhoti and catmans videos. With that said i have learned more about the specifics on what wma's they have hunted from this thread than i have from any of their videos. I found this thread with 1 simple google search so some of the posts in this thread are at least as "harmful" as those youtube videos. The irony of people complaining about information being shared through social media on a social media platform whose sole purpose is to share information is palpable.
The other thing i think that hasn't been discussed is more hunters on public land mean more people that have an investment in retaining our public lands. I may be in the minority but i think the greatest threat to public land hunting will be those lands getting sold off and leased to corporations. However if there are more people hunting those lands mean more people voting to retain said lands.
Would anyone be talking it about or posting on forums if they had made it less obvious where they were hunting in their vids? How hard is it say a region like southeast or midwest instead of namimg a state? Hell I've seen some of them show campsites and road sign in the b roll! Would just naming a freaking region make the video less enjoyable for you? Mam some of yall fan boys really love u some youtubers!
Yes i do like that they tell what state they are in because i get to learn not about the exact location but of the terrain that a state can offer. Personally i think its stupid to try and find the exact spots these guys hunt and never did understand the sneaking mentality of trying to move in on another hunters spot. I also never understood the old guys who just because they have hunted a location for years think they own it when its PUBLIC land.
Lastly if you've ever told a soul where you have killed birds than your nothing but a hypocrite and id rather be a "fanboy" than that
I've been lurking and reading this thread for a while and I find it quite amusing. First off I will admit that I'm 49 years old and have been hunting turkeys for 23 years. I watch most all of the YouTube channels mentioned here because it's entertainment. I would bet that most guys who have posted on here probably bought every Primos, Knight and Hale, HS Strut dvd ever produced. I would go further and bet most have said "I'd like to see those guys do that where I hunt" or "try calling to my turkeys like that". Personally I much prefer the type of content that is available now over the constant pimping of crutches and gadgets that was so prevalent in the old dvd's. Most of the YouTube guys put more emphasis on the adventure and the pursuit rather than the kill. It gives me hope for the future of this great sport that so many people are watching this type of hunting. I don't know if I agree that anything is being exploited, but if it is I would rather see the land being exploited than the bird itself like so many of the big companies did for years. I've hunted public land mostly as long as I've been turkey hunting. I lived and hunted in Florida until 5 years ago when I moved to NC. Florida has always been a zoo long before any videos were ever made. These are just a few of my thoughts on this subject.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Quote from: HillclimberWV on March 05, 2021, 04:02:43 PM
Quote from: Stoeger_bird on March 05, 2021, 01:10:11 PM
Quote from: HillclimberWV on March 05, 2021, 09:03:15 AM
I'm new to this forum so i know my opinion is not worth much but a couple things i would like to comment on.
First i found this thread because of a thp podcast where this very topic was discussed and how they have to approach things going forward. So they are actively talking about this among their community.
Second i have watched and enjoy all of thp pinhoti and catmans videos. With that said i have learned more about the specifics on what wma's they have hunted from this thread than i have from any of their videos. I found this thread with 1 simple google search so some of the posts in this thread are at least as "harmful" as those youtube videos. The irony of people complaining about information being shared through social media on a social media platform whose sole purpose is to share information is palpable.
The other thing i think that hasn't been discussed is more hunters on public land mean more people that have an investment in retaining our public lands. I may be in the minority but i think the greatest threat to public land hunting will be those lands getting sold off and leased to corporations. However if there are more people hunting those lands mean more people voting to retain said lands.
Would anyone be talking it about or posting on forums if they had made it less obvious where they were hunting in their vids? How hard is it say a region like southeast or midwest instead of namimg a state? Hell I've seen some of them show campsites and road sign in the b roll! Would just naming a freaking region make the video less enjoyable for you? Mam some of yall fan boys really love u some youtubers!
Yes i do like that they tell what state they are in because i get to learn not about the exact location but of the terrain that a state can offer. Personally i think its stupid to try and find the exact spots these guys hunt and never did understand the sneaking mentality of trying to move in on another hunters spot. I also never understood the old guys who just because they have hunted a location for years think they own it when its PUBLIC land.
Lastly if you've ever told a soul where you have killed birds than your nothing but a hypocrite and id rather be a "fanboy" than that
Yes since me telling a few trusted friends that share the same views as I do and sharing stuff on a social media platform for thousands upon thousands to view is exactly the same. And no matter how stupid u think it is for people to try and find spots be watching youtube videos it still happens a lot! Those are the people that will find a spot and run their mouths. Oh and I can 100% guarantee I can go back to the spots I've shared with people and the only people hunting those spots are people who found it on their own or the 1 or 2 people i did share it with. Thats what real turkey hunters do. They keep stuff to themselves. Not to be selfish but out of respect for the resource and other hunters in the areas. These days people have to blast everything on social media to get validation. I would rather have one well respected turkey killer know Im a good hunter rather then thousands of likes and views to make me think I am.
Quote from: HillclimberWV on March 05, 2021, 09:03:15 AM
I'm new to this forum so i know my opinion is not worth much but a couple things i would like to comment on.
First i found this thread because of a thp podcast where this very topic was discussed and how they have to approach things going forward. So they are actively talking about this among their community.
Second i have watched and enjoy all of thp pinhoti and catmans videos. With that said i have learned more about the specifics on what wma's they have hunted from this thread than i have from any of their videos. I found this thread with 1 simple google search so some of the posts in this thread are at least as "harmful" as those youtube videos. The irony of people complaining about information being shared through social media on a social media platform whose sole purpose is to share information is palpable.
The other thing i think that hasn't been discussed is more hunters on public land mean more people that have an investment in retaining our public lands. I may be in the minority but i think the greatest threat to public land hunting will be those lands getting sold off and leased to corporations. However if there are more people hunting those lands mean more people voting to retain said lands.
Seems people here don't want to acknowledge the big issue you just mentioned...name dropping in forums. The biggest mistake I ever made was name dropping in a forum, back when I first started hunting and killed my first few turkey and deer. Forum posts can be found within a minute or less via Google search. A YouTube video takes some digging to find info, and that all depends on how the video was produced and how much it showed.
I've been talking with Zach a lot about the topic recently, and I can tell y'all for a fact that we never intended to expose specific tracts of public land to the world. The goal is to provide relatable hunting content and try to teach people about hunting and the great outdoors and keep the tradition going. Some mistakes were made along the way, and I apologize for any that were made on my channel.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Quote from: catman529 on March 05, 2021, 10:01:40 PM
Quote from: HillclimberWV on March 05, 2021, 09:03:15 AM
I'm new to this forum so i know my opinion is not worth much but a couple things i would like to comment on.
First i found this thread because of a thp podcast where this very topic was discussed and how they have to approach things going forward. So they are actively talking about this among their community.
Second i have watched and enjoy all of thp pinhoti and catmans videos. With that said i have learned more about the specifics on what wma's they have hunted from this thread than i have from any of their videos. I found this thread with 1 simple google search so some of the posts in this thread are at least as "harmful" as those youtube videos. The irony of people complaining about information being shared through social media on a social media platform whose sole purpose is to share information is palpable.
The other thing i think that hasn't been discussed is more hunters on public land mean more people that have an investment in retaining our public lands. I may be in the minority but i think the greatest threat to public land hunting will be those lands getting sold off and leased to corporations. However if there are more people hunting those lands mean more people voting to retain said lands.
Seems people here don't want to acknowledge the big issue you just mentioned...name dropping in forums. The biggest mistake I ever made was name dropping in a forum, back when I first started hunting and killed my first few turkey and deer. Forum posts can be found within a minute or less via Google search. A YouTube video takes some digging to find info, and that all depends on how the video was produced and how much it showed.
I've been talking with Zach a lot about the topic recently, and I can tell y'all for a fact that we never intended to expose specific tracts of public land to the world. The goal is to provide relatable hunting content and try to teach people about hunting and the great outdoors and keep the tradition going. Some mistakes were made along the way, and I apologize for any that were made on my channel.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
If the person in this thread who specifically name dropped spots cared at all about this topic they'd at the very least go back and edit those posts to remove those names.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: catman529 on March 05, 2021, 10:01:40 PM
Quote from: HillclimberWV on March 05, 2021, 09:03:15 AM
I'm new to this forum so i know my opinion is not worth much but a couple things i would like to comment on.
First i found this thread because of a thp podcast where this very topic was discussed and how they have to approach things going forward. So they are actively talking about this among their community.
Second i have watched and enjoy all of thp pinhoti and catmans videos. With that said i have learned more about the specifics on what wma's they have hunted from this thread than i have from any of their videos. I found this thread with 1 simple google search so some of the posts in this thread are at least as "harmful" as those youtube videos. The irony of people complaining about information being shared through social media on a social media platform whose sole purpose is to share information is palpable.
The other thing i think that hasn't been discussed is more hunters on public land mean more people that have an investment in retaining our public lands. I may be in the minority but i think the greatest threat to public land hunting will be those lands getting sold off and leased to corporations. However if there are more people hunting those lands mean more people voting to retain said lands.
Seems people here don't want to acknowledge the big issue you just mentioned...name dropping in forums. The biggest mistake I ever made was name dropping in a forum, back when I first started hunting and killed my first few turkey and deer. Forum posts can be found within a minute or less via Google search. A YouTube video takes some digging to find info, and that all depends on how the video was produced and how much it showed.
I've been talking with Zach a lot about the topic recently, and I can tell y'all for a fact that we never intended to expose specific tracts of public land to the world. The goal is to provide relatable hunting content and try to teach people about hunting and the great outdoors and keep the tradition going. Some mistakes were made along the way, and I apologize for any that were made on my channel.
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Why don't yall get together and discuss not naming states in the vids? Just name a region like southeast or midwest? Yall can't do that because when someone googles " turkey hunting in blank state" u want ur vids to be found. Thats because first and foremost yall care about likes, views, and follows more than anything. U can "keep the tradition going" or "teach people about hunting" without name dropping states in ur vids.
Oh and it was YANAHLI WMA catman destroyed!
Catmans a good guy and he does what he does because he loves it. I have no issue with that. I've learned a thing or two about hunting ridges that drop into steep bottoms from watching his stuff. One thing I will say (and full disclosure I have screwed up and name dropped two states here in the past so I'm not immune to this) is that in some cases, I do think it would be a good idea to say a region. The reason I say that is because I've seen Nebraska get hit really hard over the last few years because of so much publicity. The black hills is getting a ton of it. And when I heard Aaron name drop a certain northeast state that they'll be going to this year, I was a little rattled. I live near this northeast state and hunt it every year. Last year, there were guys who drove 20+ hours to hunt these states and I'm seeing more and more of a trend of that. Not saying that I have the privilege to hunt that state and they don't because I live in the region, but I am seeing a trend of a lot of Arkansas plates all over the entire northern part of the country in May. I get it, Arkansas sucks. I wrestle back and forth with this because maybe I'm being a hypocrite but aside from specific WMAs, there's a loooot of guys traveling far to hunt these states in May. Just my $.02 as to why I wouldn't mind hearing regions
I think the idea that some of these guys are doing it for the likes is asinine. Dave or Catman would change very little about their hunting if YouTube went away tomorrow. It seems we all agree that THP is the most guilty party in all of this. Why don't some of you start sending them messages and put some pressure on them. They have given away a location right next to me also. It doesn't seem like they make much of an effort to hide details. The details don't add any value to their videos so they could take them out. I listened to Zach on his podcast and he says one thing but it doesn't align with how much they've shared in their videos. Catman is right about name dropping in these forums. Also Facebook is the worst. I saw a post today where people in a big Facebook group were giving out all kinds of specifics in turkey hunting areas in Mississippi. I think some of the YouTube guys should tackle this topic head on and use their influence to teach people to not share so much. There's so much ignorant stuff posted on Facebook. Some of the posters just don't understand they are screwing themselves.
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Every time I check back on this thread it just makes me sadder, and sadder. I'm literally considering disconnecting my account because I don't want to be associated with the victim mentality that has been shown on this forum. I simply don't understand why people are crying about more people being in the woods. If you would take that energy and apply it to scouting new pieces, you wouldn't have to worry about it.
Quote from: Stoeger_bird on March 05, 2021, 11:10:34 PM
Oh and it was YANAHLI WMA catman destroyed!
Thank you for proving my point that you are a hypocrite that doesn't operate in good faith.
Quote from: aclawrence on March 05, 2021, 11:47:25 PM
Facebook is the worst. There's so much ignorant stuff posted on Facebook. Some of the posters just don't understand they are screwing themselves.
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Yep,...From what I have seen, Facebook discussions and comments by people that just don't know any better are by far the worst problem. In my home state, there are multiple "groups" of hunters, as well as individuals, that will post information and pictures and name specific locations as if they think nobody besides them and their buddies will ever see it. I cringe every time I see that kind of stuff,...and I am not even looking for it!
I suspect there are Facebook (and other social media "pages") all over the country where "friends" do the same thing. YouTubers are like the CIA compared to those guys! >:( :z-dizzy:
This is just my opinion so here goes. Its called Public Land for a reason. Its not in state residents only its OPEN PUBLIC LAND. Even in my state of Massachusetts public land sometime gets heavy pressure but I have back up public land spots and sometimes in places so obvious no one hunts there but myself and a friend and we almost always get a bird or two. Find back up places to hunt. All I hear are people talking about public land like its their spot. Hello its PUBLIC LAND. Find back up spots and be like those 'You Tube' hunters and get in back country.
Bottom line is get some more spots and do some work to get your bird. Even with a bum rt foot I usually get a bird or two almost every year. I hike slower but maybe that's why I find birds. Get out there and scout. Everyone has a right to public land. And hey, if they say where they are hunting that means less pressure on other Public Land areas nearby, 'cause everyone wants to go to a you tube spot. Just my :z-twocents:
Gobblers aren't an unlimited resource...... more and more people traveling will only lead to fewer gobbler numbers, greater hunting pressure/competition, and more restrictions/regulations. We've seen this play out already and know it's coming. Just something to take into consideration.
Quote from: The Southpaw on March 06, 2021, 07:05:34 AM
Every time I check back on this thread it just makes me sadder, and sadder. I'm literally considering disconnecting my account because I don't want to be associated with the victim mentality that has been shown on this forum. I simply don't understand why people are crying about more people being in the woods. If you would take that energy and apply it to scouting new pieces, you wouldn't have to worry about it.
Because you dont agree with people having a debate over what many view as a important topic you may disconnect your account? Really ? Wow. You must not go to any other forums because if you did then you would see this is light compared to many others. Go to Archery talk. Thats a prime example.
Quote from: arkrem870 on March 06, 2021, 09:57:42 AM
Gobblers aren't an unlimited resource...... more and more people traveling will only lead to fewer gobbler numbers, greater hunting pressure/competition, and more restrictions/regulations. We've seen this play out already and know it's coming. Just something to take into consideration.
This is more my take on it. I have zero emotions over the utube movement. I have seen some positives and some negatives from it. To be honest at first I saw more positives when Dave started filming without decoys and fans on public ground. I really didn't realize what a monkey see-monkey do world we live in these days and the results down the road. My only real concern is how it plays out for the wild turkey. Still no anger from me towards anyone and I really am not accusing anyone of being a bad person. Pretty sure I could sit with Dave, Catman or the THP fellows and we would get along fine.Not that I agree with everything they do but I can't say I have agreed with everything I have done. Sounds like they have heard the concerns and time will tell how it is handled and what matters most. I just hope someday people can figure out who they are and what they want to strive for and be happy with it. No need for likes or followers or a need for attention. Thats just an observation on the internet in general.
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You can bet an outcome of popularizing travel for out-of-state turkey hunts through videos will be states imposing more and more restrictions on out-of-state hunters. Probably in the form of increased license fees and fewer tags. It won't entirely be the you-tubers' fault, but they will have had a hand in it.
Quote from: greencop01 on March 06, 2021, 09:49:50 AM
This is just my opinion so here goes. Its called Public Land for a reason. Its not in state residents only its OPEN PUBLIC LAND. Even in my state of Massachusetts public land sometime gets heavy pressure but I have back up public land spots and sometimes in places so obvious no one hunts there but myself and a friend and we almost always get a bird or two. Find back up places to hunt. All I hear are people talking about public land like its their spot. Hello its PUBLIC LAND. Find back up spots and be like those 'You Tube' hunters and get in back country.
Bottom line is get some more spots and do some work to get your bird. Even with a bum rt foot I usually get a bird or two almost every year. I hike slower but maybe that's why I find birds. Get out there and scout. Everyone has a right to public land. And hey, if they say where they are hunting that means less pressure on other Public Land areas nearby, 'cause everyone wants to go to a you tube spot. Just my :z-twocents:
So what backup places are you gonna find in Florida? Or in the southeast in general? Not having heavy amounts of competition all season really only applies to some western states and some northeastern states. Have you hunted South Florida recently? Maybe 10 pieces of public land total within 3-4 hour drive. Pretty naive to think it's as simple as finding another place when most everything down in south Florida is on a quota draw system.
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Quote from: Spitten and drummen on March 06, 2021, 10:05:21 AM
Quote from: The Southpaw on March 06, 2021, 07:05:34 AM
Every time I check back on this thread it just makes me sadder, and sadder. I'm literally considering disconnecting my account because I don't want to be associated with the victim mentality that has been shown on this forum. I simply don't understand why people are crying about more people being in the woods. If you would take that energy and apply it to scouting new pieces, you wouldn't have to worry about it.
Because you dont agree with people having a debate over what many view as a important topic you may disconnect your account? Really ? Wow. You must not go to any other forums because if you did then you would see this is light compared to many others. Go to Archery talk. Thats a prime example.
You're right, I have pretty much deactivated all of my accounts on other forums because I am sick of the arguing amongst hunters, especially when it is basically just complaining about things that aren't going to change. Like it or not, public land hunting on youtube isn't going away. Having someone in "your" spot might suck, but getting upset about it and bashing youtubers on a forum isn't going to help. That's my two cents at least. If you disagree, that's fine.
I'm hunting south FL public land right now, In fact I have hunted turkeys in several states and never have many issues. Some like to complain, others adapt
I wish everyone here a safe and successful turkey season. The time we wait for all year is upon us.....spring 2021. Remember though. Turkey hunting is sacred. Turkey hunting is special. It's NOT about the Likes. It's NOT about the money. Never was. Hold tight and squeeze slow.
I'll be on public land in at least two states this year. I hope to run into some of you guys and have positive interactions. It would be good to put faces with some names.
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Quote from: arkrem870 on March 07, 2021, 07:03:49 PM
I wish everyone here a safe and successful turkey season. The time we wait for all year is upon us.....spring 2021. Remember though. Turkey hunting is sacred. Turkey hunting is special. It's NOT about the Likes. It's NOT about the money. Never was. Hold tight and squeeze slow.
Same to ya , our youth season starts tmro . Can't wait to introduce the spring to my son for the lst time ! Hope he loves and respects the hunt as I have ...
Quote from: Howie g on March 07, 2021, 08:43:56 PM
Quote from: arkrem870 on March 07, 2021, 07:03:49 PM
I wish everyone here a safe and successful turkey season. The time we wait for all year is upon us.....spring 2021. Remember though. Turkey hunting is sacred. Turkey hunting is special. It's NOT about the Likes. It's NOT about the money. Never was. Hold tight and squeeze slow.
Same to ya , our youth season starts tmro . Can't wait to introduce the spring to my son for the lst time ! Hope he loves and respects the hunt as I have ...
Good luck to you. I will be taking my boy out a few times for his fiest Spring season.
Ran into some well-known public YouTubers on a popular WMA in Florida... they didn't last 24 hours.
Quote from: CAPTJJ on March 08, 2021, 04:26:09 PM
Ran into some well-known public YouTubers on a popular WMA in Florida... they didn't last 24 hours.
Panther or gator got them?
Quote from: Gobble! on March 08, 2021, 05:11:46 PM
Quote from: CAPTJJ on March 08, 2021, 04:26:09 PM
Ran into some well-known public YouTubers on a popular WMA in Florida... they didn't last 24 hours.
Panther or gator got them?
Tagged out
My apologies, check station said they checked out, but must have run to town and are back.
Seems things were much simpler and the Videos were much more pleasing to watch when Harold Knight + David Hale made Spring Turkey Hunting videos. I enjoyed the Primos video's as well and Lohman with Brad Harris.
Yeah,I miss those older videos where there was actually Teaching going on. It just seems to me that the main Tactic of all these Utube Chanell/ Groups is to Park before 3.30am or even before that.
And there are just so many Public Land Utube Turkey Hunting Channels that,I only watch a few minutes of each. Like all the Vietnam War Movies--- it has been " done to death"... Now, I do like Matt Dale's Channel because he is actively Teaching. He has that in common with the Knight + Hale Spring Turkey Videos.
I probably will still watch some or all of these Videos when,I have time-- but there are just so many channels/ groups now.
I don't know all the names-- but,I am very good at Faces. I just Hope like Hell, I don't see any of those faces at my Public Areas.
If,I do, I will probably think D"@#- now,I have to park by 3am and walk in no later then 3.30am.
I miss the Simplier Times...
I wonder why they focus on public land so much? I suppose free access. You see a lot of other hunting shows with outfitters. The outfitter benefits from exposure and can control numbers. wonder if they ever ask outfitters for a deal...Shane or catman, can you guys expand on this? I have never seen a youtube video where the host said, "this is my home property in bugtussel Wherever and where I do all my personal hunting". Is that because they know they would be trashing their own honey hole? There in may lay your answer, if they deliberately avoid publishing hunts on their home territory they know what they are doing and are just trashing someone else's for gain.
I am just throwing these thoughts out there for more comment and madness, not pointing any fingers. Just adding another point to the discussion. Sometimes you just have to have a pessing contest to work things out. Hopefully, through all the banter the problems get addressed and we see an improved product that many can enjoy and minimize damage.
Quote from: eggshell on March 09, 2021, 07:09:49 AM
I wonder why they focus on public land so much? I suppose free access. You see a lot of other hunting shows with outfitters. The outfitter benefits from exposure and can control numbers. wonder if they ever ask outfitters for a deal...Shane or catman, can you guys expand on this? I have never seen a youtube video where the host said, "this is my home property in bugtussel Wherever and where I do all my personal hunting". Is that because they know they would be trashing their own honey hole? There in may lay your answer, if they deliberately avoid publishing hunts on their home territory they know what they are doing and are just trashing someone else's for gain.
I am just throwing these thoughts out there for more comment and madness, not pointing any fingers. Just adding another point to the discussion. Sometimes you just have to have a pessing contest to work things out. Hopefully, through all the banter the problems get addressed and we see an improved product that many can enjoy and minimize damage.
Well, when one crew hunts TN, they literally advertise for TWRA. So they are getting something out of that one.
Funny seeing people complain about the same thing they have done the same thing on this forum.
Quote from: eggshell on March 09, 2021, 07:09:49 AM
I wonder why they focus on public land so much? I suppose free access. You see a lot of other hunting shows with outfitters. The outfitter benefits from exposure and can control numbers. wonder if they ever ask outfitters for a deal...Shane or catman, can you guys expand on this? I have never seen a youtube video where the host said, "this is my home property in bugtussel Wherever and where I do all my personal hunting". Is that because they know they would be trashing their own honey hole? There in may lay your answer, if they deliberately avoid publishing hunts on their home territory they know what they are doing and are just trashing someone else's for gain.
I am just throwing these thoughts out there for more comment and madness, not pointing any fingers. Just adding another point to the discussion. Sometimes you just have to have a pessing contest to work things out. Hopefully, through all the banter the problems get addressed and we see an improved product that many can enjoy and minimize damage.
Because the internet and TV are saturated with people hunting with outfitters. The feedback is everywhere that it's not realistic for the common hunter and that it's not "real hunting".
Quote from: eggshell on March 09, 2021, 07:09:49 AM
I wonder why they focus on public land so much? I suppose free access.
I think free access could be one of the reasons, but I think one of the primary reasons is the freedom to roam and explore more places to hunt. In addition, there are times when several guys are hunting together and need room to spread out. Been there, done that. There is nothing more frustrating to me to be confined to a small parcel of land with too many hunters such that everybody is stumbling over each other.
Conversely, there is nothing more enjoyable to me than going on a hunt with several friends and hunting an area where we can all hunt in different places but still have the camaraderie of a camp where we all gather outside of the time we are hunting. That is rarely possible when hunting private parcels that are generally going to be pretty restrictive.
Another factor that comes into play is the apparent "badge of honor" that comes with hunting public land for some folks. Whether any of us like to admit it or not, there is an underlying attitude of "I am hunting public land and killing gobblers so I must be better at this than you other guys".
News Flash: Good turkey hunters and good turkey callers are a dime a dozen nowadays! And guess what? Once you get the "A,B,C's" of hunting them down, and you dedicate enough time to hunting them, turkeys just ain't that hard to kill! If anybody is trying to prove their superiority in this endeavor, they are pretty much just fooling themselves.
Turkeys are a fine game bird that have qualities that make them very enjoyable to hunt. As others have already said, "get out in the woods, enjoy nature, hunt ethically and safely, have fun,...and maybe harvest yourself a gobbler". Other than that, don't make this about anything other than "turkey huntin'"! :) :icon_thumright:
Well, when one crew hunts TN, they literally advertise for TWRA. So they are getting something out of that one
^That's actually a really good point. I didn't even think of that. They probably are getting paid by TWRA. Now, if that's true, that's bs
Quote from: GobbleNut on March 09, 2021, 09:14:18 AM
Quote from: eggshell on March 09, 2021, 07:09:49 AM
I wonder why they focus on public land so much? I suppose free access.
I think free access could be one of the reasons, but I think one of the primary reasons is the freedom to roam and explore more places to hunt. In addition, there are times when several guys are hunting together and need room to spread out. Been there, done that. There is nothing more frustrating to me to be confined to a small parcel of land with too many hunters such that everybody is stumbling over each other.
Conversely, there is nothing more enjoyable to me than going on a hunt with several friends and hunting an area where we can all hunt in different places but still have the camaraderie of a camp where we all gather outside of the time we are hunting. That is rarely possible when hunting private parcels that are generally going to be pretty restrictive.
Another factor that comes into play is the apparent "badge of honor" that comes with hunting public land for some folks. Whether any of us like to admit it or not, there is an underlying attitude of "I am hunting public land and killing gobblers so I must be better at this than you other guys".
News Flash: Good turkey hunters and good turkey callers are a dime a dozen nowadays! And guess what? Once you get the "A,B,C's" of hunting them down, and you dedicate enough time to hunting them, turkeys just ain't that hard to kill! If anybody is trying to prove their superiority in this endeavor, they are pretty much just fooling themselves.
Turkeys are a fine game bird that have qualities that make them very enjoyable to hunt. As others have already said, "get out in the woods, enjoy nature, hunt ethically and safely, have fun,...and maybe harvest yourself a gobbler". Other than that, don't make this about anything other than "turkey huntin'"! :) :icon_thumright:
Dang there's always a kill joy that just has to show up and talk common sense truth into what was a fine argument and p*ssing match. Just went in the bathroom looked in the mirror and told that old man "your just a fool, killing them turkeys ain't no big deal after all. Any clown can do it".
Quote from: g8rvet on March 04, 2021, 02:13:36 PM
Quote from: dublelung on March 04, 2021, 10:32:39 AM
Quote from: Howie g on February 15, 2021, 03:56:09 PM
You tubers / facebookers / twitters/ coyotes / skunks / hawks / owls / coons /coonasses / arkies / loggers /
Corn hunters / decoy deployers / tss / Democrats / fire ants / cut overs / reaper fanners / hogs /
And last but not least ,, covid !! Even with all this ,,, I can't wait till it opens so I can get after these unbelievable survival artists!
Finally! A post I agree with! :you_rock:
I've watched them all and will continue to be what some of you call a "fan boy" of the youtube hunters. If the majority of you who are bitching would turn in your friends who you know shoot over the limit each year and trap some nest predators you'd be doing way more for the wild turkey than trying to shame someone who has figured out how to supplement their income while traveling and hunting.
LOL How do you know that they DON'T turn in friends that shoot over their limit and trap predators?
This thread turned silly about 10 pages ago, if not before. Y'all have fun.
Well do you trap nest raiders and report your friends who shoot over the limit or do you just report what's silly?
I do not trap predators, because I don't believe in that.
My friends don't shoot over their limit. None of them. I know a guy that used to brag about it, so I told my friend-that is a game warden. He already knew but thought he was FOS and was lucky to kill one a year.
You made a silly accusation with zero reason for it. You implied someone can't be an ethical hunter and not like the YouTube channels. (double negative, sorry). The two have nothing to do with each other. I pointed that out.
The silly comment was not really directed at yours alone, plenty of others. Folks are making suppositions based on if someone likes watching the YouTube channels or not. Otherwise, lots of good opinions on both sides of the public/overcrowding/hunter recruitment thoughts.
PS Edited to be more friendly. I don't really want to debate you or anyone on this. We both have our opinions and short of name calling, I have no problem with anyone that feels different than me. I watch some of them, sometimes. Not glued to them, but I do enjoy some of them.
Hope you and everyone else has a safe and enjoyable spring!
I'm assuming the well established "tubers" make money off their videos. Some put them on other sites that I know are commercial. Most are videoed on public lands. Thus they are commercially profiting off everyone's lands. The National Park Service and likely some other agencies, both federal and state, require producers of commercial ventures, including video productions shot on their land, to apply for permits. I think they charge a fee for those permits. I sure all the turkey videographers already know this and have them. ::)
Quote from: Spurs Up on March 09, 2021, 07:54:00 PM
I'm assuming the well established "tubers" make money off their videos. Some put them on other sites that I know are commercial. Most are videoed on public lands. Thus they are commercially profiting off everyone's lands. The National Park Service and likely some other agencies, both federal and state, require producers of commercial ventures, including video productions shot on their land, to apply for permits. I think they charge a fee for those permits. I sure all the turkey videographers already know this and have them. ::)
Yup, a western big game hunter just got in trouble for failing to get a film permit on federal lands.
I believe THP knows to cover their bases, or at least used to. Because in the beginning, I remember Aaron mentioning hunting on a certain type of public land in MO because they couldn't film on state land. A brief glimpse at Missouri's Conservation Area regulations showed the following:
EXAMPLES OF INAPPROPRIATE USES:
" commercial audio, movie, and video making"
Link here to see it yourself:
https://huntfish.mdc.mo.gov/permits/special-use-permits
I personally wish every state would ban it on their state lands or go the permit route. At least requiring a pricey permit would generate some revenue for the state's game and fish agency.
From what I understand its illegal to profit from guiding etc on my local public , I would think it would be illegal to turn any profit from filming hunts also, or it should be IMO .
Maybe with all the attention the you tubers are gaining this can be addressed
Atta boy. Tax em out of it. America, The Land of the "Free." As long as you pay. And here we are asking for them to take more. We do it to ourselves.
Alright, I can see where this is headed. Like others have said, this thread pretty much came to its demise about 10 pages ago, but I was still curious as to how guys felt. Now you guys are just talking in circles. They should only be able to do this, not that. They're teaching people too much, and they're not teaching enough! Make them pay for a permit, but I'll complain when my permits prices go up and call it a rich man's game. I throughly enjoy watching videos from public land on the YouTube platform because I can relate to it, I can route for the guys, and I can see the additional struggles. I still can watch a primos video but it's nothing more than filler for me because I know if they screw up on a bird they're in the most turkey infested place this world has to offer and will get another chance in about 45 minutes. Never could stomach a thing knight and hale stuttered on about or most other folks.
Quote from: g8rvet on March 09, 2021, 04:50:17 PM
I do not trap predators, because I don't believe in that.
About what I figured. As with most groups, with turkey hunters, you've got doers and those who reap the benefits of the doers.
I've witnessed lst hand what a difference keeping nest robbers in check can do to the turkey population.
I will continue to keep the numbers in check ,, I like having a hunt-able population of turkey . Just sayin.
Quote from: Howie g on March 10, 2021, 02:23:23 PM
I've witnessed lst hand what a difference keeping nest robbers in check can do to the turkey population.
I will continue to keep the numbers in check ,, I like having a hunt-able population of turkey . Just sayin.
Anyone who would make a genuine effort would notice the results. You get a few adjoining landowners onboard with the plan and it's unbelievable the difference can make.
Yea it's off topic but that's the nature of the beast. ;D
Quote from: Howie g on March 10, 2021, 02:23:23 PM
I've witnessed lst hand what a difference keeping nest robbers in check can do to the turkey population.
I will continue to keep the numbers in check ,, I like having a hunt-able population of turkey . Just sayin.
I killed 8 coons, a coyote, bobcat and a possum on my place over the past few months. I really wish I had the time to run traps on some of the local public land. The hatch has been fantastic the past few years, so at least the birds around here seem to have a way of avoiding the nest raiders.
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Quote from: catman529 on March 10, 2021, 03:29:20 PM
Quote from: Howie g on March 10, 2021, 02:23:23 PM
I've witnessed lst hand what a difference keeping nest robbers in check can do to the turkey population.
I will continue to keep the numbers in check ,, I like having a hunt-able population of turkey . Just sayin.
I killed 8 coons, a coyote, bobcat and a possum on my place over the past few months. I really wish I had the time to run traps on some of the local public land. The hatch has been fantastic the past few years, so at least the birds around here seem to have a way of avoiding the nest raiders.
I bout guarantee you've saved some nest with just putting a dent in the predation factor.
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Quote from: dublelung on March 10, 2021, 01:37:21 PM
Quote from: g8rvet on March 09, 2021, 04:50:17 PM
I do not trap predators, because I don't believe in that.
About what I figured. As with most groups, with turkey hunters, you've got doers and those who reap the benefits of the doers.
About what I figured, you don't know **** about me and what I give back to this and other outdoor pursuits. I would be happy to have a debate on the merits and problems with trapping of predators on another thread, not this one. Just start it and I will give you my opinions on what I think and why-I'll even be happy to debate there. I have studied this and come to my own conclusions and you don't seem like the type that could learn, but others might.
Just curious how many times you have had your state's turkey biologist call you to do an autopsy of a turkey to determine cause of death? But heck, I don't know, I only read what you write. You could be smart.
Wait a second. Y'all are talking about killing predators on your own private ground? That is different. That is helping yourself, though (and your neighbors) not helping others. I also don't disagree with that practice (private land predator control).
We really should start another thread for that though.
Quote from: catman529 on March 10, 2021, 03:29:20 PM
Quote from: Howie g on March 10, 2021, 02:23:23 PM
I've witnessed lst hand what a difference keeping nest robbers in check can do to the turkey population.
I will continue to keep the numbers in check ,, I like having a hunt-able population of turkey . Just sayin.
I killed 8 coons, a coyote, bobcat and a possum on my place over the past few months. I really wish I had the time to run traps on some of the local public land. The hatch has been fantastic the past few years, so at least the birds around here seem to have a way of avoiding the nest raiders.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
great.
Quote from: catman529 on March 10, 2021, 03:29:20 PM
Quote from: Howie g on March 10, 2021, 02:23:23 PM
I've witnessed lst hand what a difference keeping nest robbers in check can do to the turkey population.
I will continue to keep the numbers in check ,, I like having a hunt-able population of turkey . Just sayin.
I killed 8 coons, a coyote, bobcat and a possum on my place over the past few months. I really wish I had the time to run traps on some of the local public land. The hatch has been fantastic the past few years, so at least the birds around here seem to have a way of avoiding the nest raiders.
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They DO have a reason they avoid predators more successfully, and it has nothing to do with killing a few predators.
Quote from: Pluffmud on March 10, 2021, 09:11:10 AM
Atta boy. Tax em out of it. America, The Land of the "Free." As long as you pay. And here we are asking for them to take more. We do it to ourselves.
I read this as sarcasm. Not entirely sure that was the way it was intended.
Let me ask, if a private landowner charged for this, what would it be called? I'm guessing, most people would call it free enterprise. Why is it different or wrong to charge a fee to someone who profits financially off public lands???
Quote from: g8rvet on March 10, 2021, 07:34:24 PM
Quote from: dublelung on March 10, 2021, 01:37:21 PM
Quote from: g8rvet on March 09, 2021, 04:50:17 PM
I do not trap predators, because I don't believe in that.
About what I figured. As with most groups, with turkey hunters, you've got doers and those who reap the benefits of the doers.
About what I figured, you don't know **** about me and what I give back to this and other outdoor pursuits. I would be happy to have a debate on the merits and problems with trapping of predators on another thread, not this one. Just start it and I will give you my opinions on what I think and why-I'll even be happy to debate there. I have studied this and come to my own conclusions and you don't seem like the type that could learn, but others might.
Just curious how many times you have had your state's turkey biologist call you to do an autopsy of a turkey to determine cause of death? But heck, I don't know, I only read what you write. You could be smart.
My bad sir! I truly didn't know you were the godsend to all things turkey and turkey radiology. You got me at state biologist, I realize I'm out of my league and you're far superior. Carry on with your silliness. :TrainWreck1:
You are a petulant child. LMAO. You kill a couple of raccoons and think you are a "turkey helper man". Then you talk to an adult that actually does things for the sport and run your dumb mouth. Good call being sarcastic, because you have nothing else junior. Welcome to the ignore list.
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Please enlighten us on how you are helping the turkey population?
I for one would love to hear it , I may learn something? But please don't use those $10 words such as petulant
Etc , us dirty south coon killers can't comprehend that type language.
Quote from: Spurs Up on March 10, 2021, 08:43:20 PM
Quote from: Pluffmud on March 10, 2021, 09:11:10 AM
Atta boy. Tax em out of it. America, The Land of the "Free." As long as you pay. And here we are asking for them to take more. We do it to ourselves.
I read this as sarcasm. Not entirely sure that was the way it was intended.
Let me ask, if a private landowner charged for this, what would it be called? I'm guessing, most people would call it free enterprise. Why is it different or wrong to charge a fee to someone who profits financially off public lands???
The problem is, is that we charge a fee for everything. In this case, the reason for charging the tax, or "permit," is to keep less people from doing it. That my friend, is borderline extortion, or taxation without representation. Im all for paying for conservation, but its a fine line between limited govt intrusio/alterior motives and socialism, in my opinion.
Just want to add something I learned about film permit fees on Federal lands: due to a lawsuit that was recently decided, the fees were found to be unconstitutional and have been suspended.
Quote from: g8rvet on March 10, 2021, 07:34:24 PM
Quote from: dublelung on March 10, 2021, 01:37:21 PM
Quote from: g8rvet on March 09, 2021, 04:50:17 PM
I do not trap predators, because I don't believe in that.
About what I figured. As with most groups, with turkey hunters, you've got doers and those who reap the benefits of the doers.
About what I figured, you don't know **** about me and what I give back to this and other outdoor pursuits. I would be happy to have a debate on the merits and problems with trapping of predators on another thread, not this one. Just start it and I will give you my opinions on what I think and why-I'll even be happy to debate there. I have studied this and come to my own conclusions and you don't seem like the type that could learn, but others might.
Just curious how many times you have had your state's turkey biologist call you to do an autopsy of a turkey to determine cause of death? But heck, I don't know, I only read what you write. You could be smart.
Another thread started.... let's hear it.
Quote from: g8rvet on March 11, 2021, 06:39:26 AM
You are a petulant child. LMAO. You kill a couple of raccoons and think you are a "turkey helper man". Then you talk to an adult that actually does things for the sport and run your dumb mouth. Good call being sarcastic, because you have nothing else junior. Welcome to the ignore list.
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Don't go away mad, just go away! :emoticon-cartoon-012:
Quote from: LaLongbeard on April 15, 2020, 08:50:50 PM
Quote from: POk3s on April 15, 2020, 08:03:24 PM
Do you even read what people write or do you have a predetermined thing you want to say in your head and just throw it in there anyway while quoting someone???
I don't know do you read what you post? I addressed your statement about everyone liking the YouTube videos when they started and now a lot of people are fed up. I guess that confused you? You apparently are laboring under the delusion that THP accidentally filmed a gate number the original point of the thread. My post should have cleared that up for you but maybe not? You said you put your two cents in I think you should politely ask for one back because your not even clear on what is being said lol.
Nice to see you're still just an angry, selfish, self-absorbed, petty little D-bag. Some things-and people clearly never change. Thing is, watching you rail on about being mindful of the locals and then saying you hunt X many days a spring in Y number of states, and given your frankly a$$hole attitude to literally EVERYTHING, I'd bet good cash money you're precisely what you're whining about on here right now..
If I might be so bold (and admittedly, I might be asking for trouble), this might be a good time for everybody to take a deep breath and count to 10,...or maybe 100. Whatever it takes to settle down a bit. :angel9: ;D
:newmascot: :newmascot: :newmascot: :newmascot: :newmascot: :newmascot:
Quote from: GobbleNut on March 11, 2021, 02:23:05 PM
If I might be so bold (and admittedly, I might be asking for trouble), this might be a good time for everybody to take a deep breath and count to 10,...or maybe 100. Whatever it takes to settle down a bit. :angel9: ;D
:newmascot: :newmascot: :newmascot: :newmascot: :newmascot: :newmascot:
Agreed, but jerks like LaLongbeard are one of the reasons I'm hardly ever on this site anymore. Pretty sure he didn't get enough hugs as a child.
The only reason I'm posting this is so I can say I contributed to the 30 pages of whatever is being debated before it gets locked. I'm not sure what, but usually if a thread goes over about 3 pages it goes downhill quick. I wish I had the attention span to read it all, I'm betting there are some hilarious comments.
Quote from: guesswho on March 11, 2021, 03:29:12 PM
The only reason I'm posting this is so I can say I contributed to the 30 pages of whatever is being debated before it gets locked. I'm not sure what, but usually if a thread goes over about 3 pages it goes downhill quick. I wish I had the attention span to read it all, I'm betting there are some hilarious comments.
You ever watched a Jerry Springer show? Whole lot of name calling and hair pulling and teeth missing and tit grabbing and toe stomping and thongs being torn to tatters while those of us without a horse in the race sit back and chant, "Jerry! Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!"
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/3o7TKBvhLMG1a9QgAo/giphy.gif)
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Starting to look more like archery talk than Old Gobbler. If you know, you know.....
Quote from: mightyjoeyoung on March 11, 2021, 03:20:35 PM
Quote from: GobbleNut on March 11, 2021, 02:23:05 PM
If I might be so bold (and admittedly, I might be asking for trouble), this might be a good time for everybody to take a deep breath and count to 10,...or maybe 100. Whatever it takes to settle down a bit. :angel9: ;D
:newmascot: :newmascot: :newmascot: :newmascot: :newmascot: :newmascot:
Agreed, but jerks like LaLongbeard are one of the reasons I'm hardly ever on this site anymore. Pretty sure he didn't get enough hugs as a child.
That guys been MIA for awhile.......
Probably been out patterning his new TSS shells and tending to his chufa fields.
Saw some posts of his posts on a traditional archery forum, guess he found a new place to spread his joy.
I love a zombie thread!
Quote from: Spurs Up on March 11, 2021, 07:25:09 PM
I love a zombie thread!
:TooFunny: Apparently none of us are too good at hitting the brain on this one! :TooFunny: :newmascot: