I have a history with a certain bird, and based on camera pictures recently I am hoping that we get to go at it agin in a few weeks. This bird was at least 3 years old when I first got pictures of him 4 years ago. Anybody ever had a bird that they knew was old, and had an idea of how old he actually was?
The only birds that I was positive of their (minimum) age were turkeys that were banded (wing bands) as part of a study in the area I hunt. I think the last banded turkey I saw was seven or eight years after they were banded as I recall. I'm sure they were banded as adults, but I have no idea how old they might have been when they were captured to start with. That was back in the 1980's.
I am fully confident that there are turkeys running around just about everywhere they exist that live to be eight or ten years old pretty regularly.
Quote from: tlh2865 on March 20, 2020, 03:31:35 PM
I have a history with a certain bird, and based on camera pictures recently I am hoping that we get to go at it agin in a few weeks. This bird was at least 3 years old when I first got pictures of him 4 years ago. Anybody ever had a bird that they knew was old, and had an idea of how old he actually was?
How do you know that it's the same turkey?
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8 years estimated, Ihhaven't seen him in his tree this year but I haven't looked . ole tight lip lives behind my buddies house but
I don't necessarily judge the age of turkeys, but i think the oldest i have encountered was 3 or 4 year old , i would think 4 is really pushing it .. Think about it , most of the time we all kill 2 year old birds. 2 year old bird will almost always weigh more than older birds in my area. I think breeding active plays big part in his weight.
Great thread. Maybe you guys can let me know how old this guy was. In early 2000's, I harvested this NJ Gobbler. Very unique hunt, started him at 7:00 am, got him at 10:00 am. He had a very weird gobble, kinda of Jake like, high pitched. Very reluctant to show himself, I chased him 1/2 mile or so, repositioning several times. Finally, I got him to 30 yards. He weighed 22 pounds, the picture shows the beard and spurs. His feet were very prehistoric, crusty looking. His waddle has that brown spot. He looked different than any Gobbler I have ever seen. I welcome the forums thoughts on his age, thanks.... be safe
We have a bird here at home that I named Tom Whitehead. I believe him to be 7-8 years old this year. The first year we had him here he was 4 at a minimum I think. He had long 1.25-1.5 spurs with a nice hook to them. When we first got to know him he had a solid white head at all times of day whether he was strutting, relaxing, feeding, standing in the rain or sunshine. I've never seen another turkey like him. Maybe someone here might know why he was like that. There was no other color variation whatsoever. It was a solid pale white. He also has solid pink spurs. He has a very distinctive beard that has a certain kink to it. It's long and thin and has a bend in it. I have no doubt it's the same turkey. They live here year round day after day. We watch them very closely. He is the only turkey I know of for sure that is 7-8. There are a couple others here that are a minimum of 5-6. This is an interesting thread. I like it.
Wow, interesting....
His name is Tom Shone. He used to come in with my uncle to bow hunt our farm every year during the last week of October. Haven't seen him in years. I guess he's still alive. Gotta be in his late 60's I'd imagine. Maybe older.
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Quote from: Tom007 on March 20, 2020, 05:06:09 PM
Great thread. Maybe you guys can let me know how old this guy was. In early 2000's, I harvested this NJ Gobbler. Very unique hunt, started him at 7:00 am, got him at 10:00 am. He had a very weird gobble, kinda of Jake like, high pitched. Very reluctant to show himself, I chased him 1/2 mile or so, repositioning several times. Finally, I got him to 30 yards. He weighed 22 pounds, the picture shows the beard and spurs. His feet were very prehistoric, crusty looking. His waddle has that brown spot. He looked different than any Gobbler I have ever seen. I welcome the forums thoughts on his age, thanks.... be safe
I think this bird had some kind of fungus, like gobblers have beard rot...
Thanks Greg. He was a weird bird...... but he gave me a thrilling hunt.... be safe
Quote from: Tom007 on March 20, 2020, 06:23:07 PM
Thanks Greg. He was a weird bird...... but he gave me a thrilling hunt.... be safe
From the picture's he sure was ..Did you eat the bird ? How did he look after dressing him ?
I killed one in the 4th or 5th year we hunted him and he seemed to be the mature gobbler on the property during the first year we hunted him, so I don't know how old he could have been.
The reason that I know he was the same bird was he stayed in the same area to roost the whole time and he had a very unique gobble. He was nicknamed the clacker because his gobble was like clicking noise.
It started out normal then ticked down. It was odd but he kept the others quiet. About 3 days after I killed him, the woods were wide open with gobbles and in years past, you might hear one other bird gobble until clacker started and then they would shut up.
The breasts were fine, I am still alive. The funny thing, he did not have a lot of that yellow fat like those bruisers do. But the meat was fine. Thx
Quote from: Gentry on March 20, 2020, 04:22:05 PM
Quote from: tlh2865 on March 20, 2020, 03:31:35 PM
I have a history with a certain bird, and based on camera pictures recently I am hoping that we get to go at it agin in a few weeks. This bird was at least 3 years old when I first got pictures of him 4 years ago. Anybody ever had a bird that they knew was old, and had an idea of how old he actually was?
How do you know that it's the same turkey?
He has a very distinct Beard that has allowed me to identify him since I first saw him. Far and away longer than any other bird I've seen personally, and with a very unique form. It comes off his chest and then curves back towards his body in a wide arc.
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7 years because he was banded spurs were only 1 1/4 and 1 1/8 so it's hard to always judge based on that as with those alone I would have guessed and said 3 or 4.
I killed one that I have theorized as old based on being a massive bird with giant feet extremely worn down almost non existint toe nails with huge gnarled bases on his spurs had creases like there were growth rings where they had broken before and grown back but no possible way confirm anything.
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The bird with the "crusty" feet. I saw a picture similar one time and Frostbite was one of the best guesses I heard?
Quote from: Tom007 on March 20, 2020, 05:06:09 PM
Great thread. Maybe you guys can let me know how old this guy was. In early 2000's, I harvested this NJ Gobbler. Very unique hunt, started him at 7:00 am, got him at 10:00 am. He had a very weird gobble, kinda of Jake like, high pitched. Very reluctant to show himself, I chased him 1/2 mile or so, repositioning several times. Finally, I got him to 30 yards. He weighed 22 pounds, the picture shows the beard and spurs. His feet were very prehistoric, crusty looking. His waddle has that brown spot. He looked different than any Gobbler I have ever seen. I welcome the forums thoughts on his age, thanks.... be safe
Based on the spurs, I would say he was a two-year-old. That's not totally definitive by any means, but If I was to have to place a bet on it, I would bet on two.
Tom Horn,
I rode most of the Chisholm trail with him back in the old days
Quote from: crow on March 20, 2020, 10:08:59 PM
Tom Horn,
I rode most of the Chisholm trail with him back in the old days
Lol
Quote from: wvmntnhick on March 20, 2020, 06:07:16 PM
His name is Tom Shone. He used to come in with my uncle to bow hunt our farm every year during the last week of October. Haven't seen him in years. I guess he's still alive. Gotta be in his late 60's I'd imagine. Maybe older.
That's funny
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I don't actually know the age of any birds I've gotten. However, several years ago in a sidebar of a turkey hunting magazine, I read of a Missouri bird which was trapped, tagged and transferred as a jake. He was killed seven years later and taken to the check station (mandatory at that time). As I recall, the weight was just under 20#, he had a 9 1/8" beard and 1 1/8" spurs. Those stats stick in my mind because I was surprised at the spur length.
The first bird I ever killed had a head as big around as a one pound coffee can and when he gobbled on the roost it sounded like you were shaking a can with marbles in it. He weighted 27 pounds and had a 10 1/2 inch beard, but his spurs were only 1 inch long.
I'll share what I know on age. I ran a turkey check station for thirty + years and we checked banded birds from a research project. The first thing I'd say is just throw spur length out as a definitive aging tool. It will get you close, but past year two is totally an estimate. Jakes have a button, two years old 1/2 -3/4" with no curve, after that it's hard to tell. The spurs will start to curve some by year three and hook more as they age. So I'd say after three it's a +/- one or two years estimate. I can think of one instance where two hunters came in with banded birds from the same area. One bird had 1 1/4 slightly hooked spurs and the other had 1" straight spurs. Everyone guessed the old hook spur was at least a year older. I called the research center with the tag numbers and they informed me both birds were tagged as jakes at the same time and were both the same age. That same study showed that birds followed from jakes lived an average of three years before they were killed by hunters, on public ground. Private ground would probably have older birds. Gobbler mortality is high on hunted birds. We are far more efficient than we think we are. The oldest bird of verified age in that study was 8 or 9 if I remember right. From what I saw with known age banded birds, I wouldn't bet on any age over 3. Spur length and curve is most likely more a genetic issue then age in my opinion.
One of my hunting buddies named Tom is 78 years old!!! That's an old Tom!!! ;D :toothy12: :TooFunny:
I never heard a single person in the southeast call a Gobbler a Tom until it started being common on the utube hunting videos. Never in a book never in a magazine it was always a yankee term. First time I heard it in person was in Pennsylvania years ago. But here in the south it's always been Longbeard or Gobbler a Tom was a cat.
Quote from: eggshell on March 21, 2020, 10:10:06 AM
I'll share what I know on age. I ran a turkey check station for thirty + years and we checked banded birds from a research project. The first thing I'd say is just throw spur length out as a definitive aging tool. It will get you close, but past year two is totally an estimate. Jakes have a button, two years old 1/2 -3/4" with no curve, after that it's hard to tell. The spurs will start to curve some by year three and hook more as they age. So I'd say after three it's a +/- one or two years estimate. I can think of one instance where two hunters came in with banded birds from the same area. One bird had 1 1/4 slightly hooked spurs and the other had 1" straight spurs. Everyone guessed the old hook spur was at least a year older. I called the research center with the tag numbers and they informed me both birds were tagged as jakes at the same time and were both the same age. That same study showed that birds followed from jakes lived an average of three years before they were killed by hunters, on public ground. Private ground would probably have older birds. Gobbler mortality is high on hunted birds. We are far more efficient than we think we are. The oldest bird of verified age in that study was 8 or 9 if I remember right. From what I saw with known age banded birds, I wouldn't bet on any age over 3. Spur length and curve is most likely more a genetic issue then age in my opinion.
This has been my thoughts all along. Everybody on videos or in person runs up and looks at spurs and says he's a X year old. I've killed a lot less than some and a lot more than others and feel like you can tell easy on a jake and most of the time on a 2 year old (5/8-1" rounded). If 1" and sharp or curved he is 3+ that's about as much as you can tell from spurs. This basically means to me a bird grows approx. .5" of spurs a year, from there it is all based on how much they get worn down each year. I read a study once where there was a 4 or older bird that had 3/4" dull rounded spurs, so it's really just a guess unless they are long and sharp. I've also noticed some birds that have big spurs coming out of the leg have a tendency to have longer spurs than birds that have smaller spurs coming out of the legs. I believe this is because the thicker they are the less they wear down.
The oldest bird I ever killed that I felt like I knew I had hunted him for several years was at least 4. There was a bird that roosted on this small finger ridge that fell off into a swamp bottom. The ridge was only on our property for about 50 yds so almost impossible to get on the ridge with him. He did the same thing every year and was in an almost impossible place to get too him and wouldn't come to call. Anyhow on year 3 or 4 I called him into a food plot that was a couple ridges over from his roost ridge. I shot him rolled him and he got up and ran off. I was sick cause I knew he was a stud and I had hunted him many many times.
Fast forward 1 year and I get on a bird not too far from the food plot a couple hours after daylight but he hi tales it across the neighbors 40. I am able to go down the property line to the next property 1/4 mile from the foodplot. I get a jake to gobble and head my way and the big bird is not going to have it. The big guy come running in following the jake and I kill him. His waddles were kind of crusty and his legs were yellowish which kind of had me questioning if something was wrong with him. This was the first bird I had ever killed with tss so I cut open his neck to see the damage. His neck was slap full of old shot and he even had a pellet in his snood. I knew immediatly it was the bird from the previous year. I had shot him with hevishot the year before and still don't know how he escaped it but he did and I was thankful to finish it.
I don't remember the specifics and don't have my log with me here, but he was in the 1.25" range on spurs and 9.5 on beard.
Quote from: LaLongbeard on March 21, 2020, 02:25:39 PM
I never heard a single person in the southeast call a Gobbler a Tom until it started being common on the utube hunting videos. Never in a book never in a magazine it was always a yankee term. First time I heard it in person was in Pennsylvania years ago. But here in the south it's always been Longbeard or Gobbler a Tom was a cat.
Well, I'm a "Yankee" and I always used to refer to age groups as either jakes or adult birds, not too often longbeards. Then I noticed quite a few guys referred to them as either jakes or toms. So I sort of adopted that. Thus, to me, they're all "gobblers" (although quite a few guys use this to refer to >1 YO), "jakes" are obvious, anything older is either "toms" or "longbeards". But in the end who really gives a rat's behind!
Quote from: Turkeyman on March 21, 2020, 03:57:21 PM
Quote from: LaLongbeard on March 21, 2020, 02:25:39 PM
I never heard a single person in the southeast call a Gobbler a Tom until it started being common on the utube hunting videos. Never in a book never in a magazine it was always a yankee term. First time I heard it in person was in Pennsylvania years ago. But here in the south it's always been Longbeard or Gobbler a Tom was a cat.
Well, I'm a "Yankee" and I always used to refer to age groups as either jakes or adult birds, not too often longbeards. Then I noticed quite a few guys referred to them as either jakes or toms. So I sort of adopted that. Thus, to me, they're all "gobblers" (although quite a few guys use this to refer to >1 YO), "jakes" are obvious, anything older is either "toms" or "longbeards". But in the end who really gives a rat's behind!
I'm also from the North and I have always refereed to them as Jake's or Tom's and that goes back to around 95 or 96 at least.
Thank you Eggshell, always thought the longer the spur the older the bird, the 2nd Tom I killed , gobbled "old" it was almost a growl, bird was thin, run down, 16 1/2 lbs , 11 3/8" beard, 1# 1 1/8 spur, 2nd spur rounded off, dominate bird, we chased for 2 plus hours, before he finished breeding his hen's and came looking for more. Always thought he was older.
Loss of weight is a likely indicator of old age. The finest/oldest gobbler I ever saw had a pencil beard and weighed 13 pounds, and I wished I had killed him. The man who killed him is pictured on page 183 of Ken Morgan's "One Man's Game". It took a while to convince him that he had killed a stud. We didn't know of the gobbler's existence. There are some old gobblers out there that don't want there existence known.
Quote from: Turkeyman on March 21, 2020, 03:57:21 PM
Quote from: LaLongbeard on March 21, 2020, 02:25:39 PM
But in the end who really gives a rat's behind!
Apparently you do lol.
I think part of it in the south is Jakes don't gobble often so a Gobbler is a 2+ year old. It's always been Jakes,Hens or Gobblers here in the south. Just an observation that the phrase tom was not used in the south until recently. If that upsets you or any other Yankee well that's just a bonus lol
I've hunted one tom three years running on the Savanah river that I'm pretty sure is at least 6 now. He was a mature bird the first year I saw him, at least a three year old. No doubt it's the same bird, fairly consistent in the area he roosts, and should have killed him twice already except for twists of fate. That one is the oldest I know of at the moment.
We know of another in the mountains that I'd suspect is at least 5. Have had him in range for my son the last two seasons and he appeared to be a mature 3 year old tom the first time we saw him. Roosts on the side of one particular mountain and fairly regular. Land owner has many trail cam pics and knows him well, says he's far older than we think. Again, he should be dead already except for twists of fate but I will be toting a gun this season when we go after him.
I've hunted a few over the years similar to these in suspected age but it's not common (at least for me) to find one I can reasonably say is the same bird. I called one for a friend last year that I'd been hearing for the three previous seasons on public land but hadn't made a try at. He roosted across the river from an area I often hunt. A gravel road dead ends near the river bottom over there and that tom would go quiet the instant a truck drove down it, if no truck came in he'd freely roost gobble and on the ground. We probably hunted it different than the others who had tried him, got out in the flat and were a little less aggressive. We just stayed quiet letting him make the first move and about an hour after daylight he cranked up. I called him our way and when he strutted within 80 yards and spied Jolene he just folded up and ran right up friend's gun barrel. He ended up being quite an old warrior, a 21lb public land wooded river bottom turkey with 1 1/8" busted off spurs and only 3 toes on one foot. I'd say at least a 4 year old but who knows.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7841/47472275852_2fdddbfe61_c.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7846/46801296114_817086ce30_c.jpg)
I spoke to a bird biologist via a taxidermy forum a few years ago who said turkeys molt spurs just like they do feathers. Said a spur with a wide band at the base is an indicator of a previous molt and that those occur around age 4. It's not uncommon to kill mature toms here with busted up rough ended spurs. Woods turkeys scratch out a living and are rough on spurs and nails. I've always just used spur length to predict an "at least __years old", 1"=3 years at least, 1"+= more like 4. Again, who really knows?
I agree that if left alone to die of natural causes gobblers have the potential to live 7-10 years. I also think we all have known old birds we have chased. It's not that hard to figure them out when they do the same thing year after year. I have known a couple that had distinct physical traits that identified them, one I know lasted 4 seasons before I killed him. I typically have more older birds where I hunt as I have control over the turkey hunting and manage the harvest. I have one bird now that Is in his 3rd season of being charmed. I assume he was at least 2-3 when he first became a pain in the arse, so that makes him 5-6. I do target these birds and I usually kill them eventually, my average is 3 seasons to kill them. I know it's a luxury that many don't have to be able to have managed birds to hunt and I am grateful for the blessing. I had a bird last year that I wanted bad for three years and I took a good friend on him only to watch him cripple the bird, I was sick. I will defend my friend as he is a great turkey hunter and almost without exception puts birds down for good....it was just one of those days.
Quote from: THattaway on March 21, 2020, 09:58:13 PM
I spoke to a bird biologist via a taxidermy forum a few years ago who said turkeys molt spurs just like they do feathers.
Sounds like a biologist that didn't pay attention in school, nor ever dissected a turkey leg
Quote from: Turkeyman on March 22, 2020, 08:32:27 AM
Quote from: THattaway on March 21, 2020, 09:58:13 PM
I spoke to a bird biologist via a taxidermy forum a few years ago who said turkeys molt spurs just like they do feathers.
Sounds like a biologist that didn't pay attention in school, nor ever dissected a turkey leg
I won't state that there is not the occasional gobbler that somehow manages to lose part of a spur such that it looks like it was "molted", but turkey-gobbler spurs do not molt as a genetic or biological function. End of discussion.
Don't your toenails molt, Gobblenut? Oh while we're discussing things that molt.....I've been molting my hair for 35 yrs, when does it grow back?
Molt may have been the term I used. Lose spur sheath may have been closer to what was said. I've molted enough hair to make a mistake or two from memory.
Quote from: THattaway on March 22, 2020, 02:27:08 PM
I've molted enough hair to make a mistake or two from memory.
LOL I'm with you there. Re:spur caps I've gotten several birds that had a missing, or broken off, spur cap from flydown or such.
Life expectancy of a "WILD" turkey is 3-5 years... really unless this bird has some kind of distinctive markings I highly doubt it's the same bird... I always smh when I read about these stories of this old gobbler that roost in same tree every year...
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Quote from: Pressured Gobbler on March 23, 2020, 04:28:31 AM
Life expectancy of a "WILD" turkey is 3-5 years... really unless this bird has some kind of distinctive markings I highly doubt it's the same bird... I always smh when I read about these stories of this old gobbler that roost in same tree every year...
Clarifying your statement a bit: I believe you are probably correct that the life expectancy of the average wild turkey that makes it to adulthood is around 3-5 years. However, the life expectancy of wild turkeys overall,...that is, including hatched poults,...is considerably less than one year.
Turkey mortality is "front-loaded". That is, most die very early in life. However, I believe most actual studies indicate that there are those "outlier" turkeys that live very long lives pretty much everywhere.
I also agree that many of the "the same gobbler roosted in the same tree for years" stories are speculative since we probably all have witnessed the tendency of turkeys to gravitate towards the same roosting areas generation to generation. However, I also believe it is totally feasible that there are witnessed and verifiable cases where someone knew with certainty that a particular turkey lived to be very old while staying in the same vicinity,...and even while being hunted with some regularity.
Personally, I believe I have known a few gobblers that fit that category,...and with some level of empirical justification for that belief. You are right though,...without some real, hard evidence to support that assertion, it is always just a "belief".
Ahhh, but that is what "Old Hermit Gobbler" legends are made of!... :)
QuoteAhhh, but that is what "Old Hermit Gobbler" legends are made of!... :)
Fishermen have nothing over turkeys hunters....after 30 years at a check station I have heard a million turkey hunt stories. Most of them are slightly exaggerated :popcorn: