Guys , this past season we had several serious issues revolving call trades .....there is something going to happen to permanently fix the situation
There are two types of disputes intentional fraud and misunderstanding/poor communication
First situation. ....INTENTIONAL FRAUD , these are ussually I would say 90%of the time perpetuated by low post members , they have low posts and are going to do a quick hit and run and if they get banned so be it ...they got your money or call and are long gone ...of you contact them they don't reply back to emails or texts or they hit you with a bs story like divorce problems etc.....seen it before do not reply nor conduct business with low post members , of you see someone selling or trading anything without a picture p.m. me and I will take action
1) do not trade or buy with anyone below 20 posts ...they will have thier add removed , use your judgement guys if the item is pricey raise your guard/post count accordingly don't be selling something and get tricked into a trade.....remember on the Internet you don't know who they REALLY are
2) any low post member seen selling anything without a picture will likely have thier account delleted/banned. upon discovery
3) if you sold something outright.....you are to be paid upfront I suggest paypal
4) ANYONE WHO IS NOT A ESTABLISHED CALLMAKER FOUND TO BE REQUESTING PAYPAL "GIFT" WILL HAVE THIER ACCOUNT DELLETED RIGHT ON THE SPOT , ANYONE MEANS YOU ! I DON'T CARE IF YOU HAVE 1 THOUSAND POSTS , INCORPORATE THE FEES INTO YOUR PURCHASE PRICE for those who don't know ...the gift feature will not allow buyer protection
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Now let's get down to the unintentional and misunderstanding deals gone bad ......if we get anymore situations.we are going to pull the plug on trades and the only allowed tender will be US DOLLARS ...that means one more bs situation and it's all over for trades
again do not conduct business with low post members in fact be very cautious in a call trade with anyone below 100 posts on a trade ...make darn sure you know who you are dealing with , who they are and of your not happy they will take it back minus shipping
I had a good member trade a member calls , the other member sent him junk , and then took a hammer to the calls he sent him just in spite ....this stuff happens guys , there are crazies and criminals out there
1) it is up to the buyer and seller to square up what they are trading GOOD PICTURES ALL AROUND THE CALL
2) use tracking and insurrance on the package
Any other suggestions feel free to coment se are looking to rid ourselves of these situations
Shannon
I totally agree Shannon. We also need to quit the bitching about what a member is asking for a price on a call. If you don't want to pay that amount or think it's way overpriced , keep quiet and move on to the next call. I'm here to buy or sell calls, not listen to a bunch of bitching. If I don't want to pay the price I just laugh and move on. Just my .01. Lol. Anyway thank you Shannon for a great site for calls and callmakers!!!!!!!!!
I think with sales or trades if one of the parties is not happy with the item and able to return the item for a refund or the item back problem should be solved. Communication is key imo.
I'm not much on trading,but hate to see it ruined by a few bad apples. I've bought a whole lot of calls,items through the years from the classifieds and thankfully have had nothing,but great experiences.
I also agree like it or not let a seller list whatever price they want and they sell with PayPal fees included in asking price.
Great site where I've learned alot from over the years,obtained a whole lot of calls/turkey hunting items,and also have made alot of friends simply by treating others how I want to be treated. :icon_thumright:
Thanks for the good suggestions guys keep em' comming --Shannon
Actually I've found the swap trade boards run like a well oiled machine no complaints,,,I do like to send certified money orders for any purchase and hope that keeps being an acceptable practice.
If I had one suggestion it would be to limit the amount of "TTT" or bumps one can do to their listings and keep the top of the Swapboards fresh.
i have to agree one of best sites around as was said get pics of calls if a seller is not willing to take more pics move on and payment can never go wrong with paypal some guys just dont use it and ill request a post office money order ,,,always get payment before sending any thing and even with trades u got have a lot of trust in who you are dealing with ,,,,
and one last thing if selling or buying answer pms in a timely manner ,,
,one great thing about this fourm is u can always check and see when a member was logged on last,,, if they dont answer the best thing sometimes is just to move on
One suggestion I would contribute would be to beef up the trader feedback section. I trade, buy and sell on firearms on another large site and it has a more formal and awesome trader rating system.
Cheers,
Pete
Quote from: Dfxhunter on August 26, 2018, 11:35:37 AM
I totally agree Shannon. We also need to quit the bitching about what a member is asking for a price on a call. If you don't want to pay that amount or think it's way overpriced , keep quiet and move on to the next call. I'm here to buy or sell calls, not listen to a bunch of bitching. If I don't want to pay the price I just laugh and move on. Just my .01. Lol. Anyway thank you Shannon for a great site for calls and callmakers!!!!!!!!!
X2
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Quote from: PEte_A on August 26, 2018, 07:10:15 PM
One suggestion I would contribute would be to beef up the trader feedback section. I trade, buy and sell on firearms on another large site and it has a more formal and awesome trader rating system.
Cheers,
Pete
I agree possibly a feedback or rating system that gives you a point Everytime someone gives you positive feedback could possibly help out. I know on other sites I do not do business with anyone who has less than a positive 10 feedback. Maybe that could help.
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Shannon I don't know if your able to do this or not, but block new members from having access to the classifieds period UNTIL they reach say 25-50 post or whatever number you decide. Also 25-50 quality post, not just a short "nice call" comment on a post.
This will make new members actually earn the privelage to trade and could improve conversation overall.
I've had a pretty large number of transactions over the years they have all been great with the exception of the one we are working on. There are some great people here that have great morals. Statistically I would say overall the amount of transactions that have gone south the last year or 2 is less than 1 percent, which is pretty awesome.
It is a shame that you have to take time out of your life to sort through the few exceptions.
Hope this helps.
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I think the classifieds are pretty great. I've never had any serious issues and most everyone on there is a real pleasure to deal with.
I will suggest though some kind of rule on the amount of time you have to reply back to someone when your selling or buying. Don't tell somebody you will take an item and then not log back on till the next afternoon. That leaves the other person in limbo till you decide to get back with them. Also if you sell something and the item is being returned for an issue then the seller should be responsible for all the shipping charges. Don't try to subtract shipping from the refund or say your not paying for the returned shipping. If it's your fault the item is being returned then why should the buyer be out one penny when they didn't get anything but there time wasted?
I agree with a rating system if possible for trades but would leave it open for sales. Also off topic a little it would be nice to be able tag a person in a thread if you know that they are looking to buy something and what they buy comes up so they can see it. (Also have them get a PM if they are tagged) Not everybody has the time I do to go through all the posts so I thought that might be an idea.
A fishing site I frequent requires 50 posts and six months on the site before you can post to classified. The time was added because it was discovered some would add minimal responses to get the post count. The site is really strict about the count and ads are removed if the count is not meet,
Saw this coming back in the late winter/ early spring and posted about this issue, when people were buying and selling for the spring season. Low posters and NO PICS. I think that the policies that are in place will remedy this situation if made Mandatory. 1. PICS are Mandatory NO Exceptions NO Excuses 2. Paypal only, NO gifts, NO friends 3. Add a minimum post (say 50 posts) to sell or trade on this site. NO use in reinventing the wheel. Don't make additional LAWS, just enforce those in place. PEOPLE on this site need to HEED the WARNINGS of the moderators. When the moderators tell you to do something, then do as your told. They run a GREAT site and hear and see things that we aren't privileged to. You have heard this before but GREAT site Shannon, just wish the 10% would follow the rules in place.
Since I'm a low post member, I'll disagree. Just because I have a low post count doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to sell a call. If you look at the scammer list, the last person put on it had 98 post. That tells me it don't matter what the limit is. I don't do any trading and haven't had any luck selling. Guess I have a low post count. Some people look and listen rather than post so they are not going to have a high post count. If your new or relatively new you won't either. Does that mean you shouldn't be able to sell a call because you don't have a lot of post "No". The only people agreeing with this has 200 to 4,000 post. First time in 39 years I've have had someone to say don't associate with me because I have a low post count. That's the way to treat new folks to Turkey Hunting. Thanks!!!!!! That's the way to get new people interested in the sport.
I'd say yes allow low post people to buy sell trade but if they are below a certain post count they "MUST"
be the one who acts first send call,send cash, make this a rule. If we don't allow a low poster to list at all we may lose out on a great deal by someone who inherits a collection of simply needs the cash on something cool.
Quote from: Happy hooker on August 27, 2018, 03:35:10 PM
I'd say yes allow low post people to buy sell trade but if they are below a certain post count they "MUST"
be the one who acts first send call,send cash, make this a rule. If we don't allow a low poster to list at all we may lose out on a great deal by someone who inherits a collection of simply needs the cash on something cool.
I can agree with this plus items being sent from both parties must be sent with insurance and delivery confirmation. Also photos from both must be posted in public forum for all to see so things can't be said after the trade is done. I think this last part should be done for all, sales or trades even for manufacturers. I have seen a few posts by makers with "Send me PM or text for price or pictures and think that needs to stop, not that I think it is always a case of dishonesty, some may not know how to post pictures is all. (Send P.M. and I will give you my email and you send me pics and I will be happy to post them for you)
Since you asked for member feedback I'd say first of all I love the site!
As a new member (joined Jan '18) I've mostly read and commented when and where I felt it was appropriate.
I've purchased a few patches from the site, more to show my support but I do love them; please continue the tradition. And I've purchased a some calls from another member. The transaction couldn't have gone better, but that was due to good communication by both of us. He didn't ask for PayPal F&F, but I paid that way in good faith knowing the inherent risks of doing so.
My last two points are the key; good communication and knowledge of the risks. While I greatly appreciate you taking the initiative Shannon, I feel as though you should not be responsible for ensuring that smooth transactions take place between independent individuals who happen to be members.
Reminding us of good practices, weeding out the bad apples to the extent possible, and having a means to provide feedback are all great ideas. However, the burden for ensuring smooth transactions is on us.
Thanks for working to make this a tremendous site with fantastic members!
Caveat Emptor
I'll add my :z-twocents: I agree with Shannon, but put a limit on amount of posts in writing for access to the Classifieds for sales or trades. 99.9% of the people on this site are honorable and honest. I agree no Pay Pal family or gifts period! I also agree no photo no post. Also I would like to see amount of sales or trades on each poster on the classifieds. It would be great info and would be a great way to help give integrity to the site. And nothing against low post people but on this blog it will show effort on the low post people to up their posts. Hey I've been on this blog for years and have found that this blog is head and shoulders above any other turkey blog out there, bar none. In closing I'm not putting anyone down. I've bought on this blog and have been very satisfied and I also know just one bad experience can leave a foul taste in your mouth. Let's work at keeping this a premier blog with members that participate. I have learned so much here and it has made me a better turkey hunter. Thank You Shannon for a lot of what I said is because of all your hard work.
if call trading is realy giving u trouble a wood site iam member of here is one of their rules for trading every thing is out in the open for all to see lots picks some one may catch something u dont see
All trading activity must start and end in a thread in the l section in the appropriate forum. Trades initiated "behind the forum" can result in an immediate and permanent ban
Quote from: KYHeadhunter02 on August 27, 2018, 12:07:05 AM
Shannon I don't know if your able to do this or not, but block new members from having access to the classifieds period UNTIL they reach say 25-50 post or whatever number you decide. Also 25-50 quality post, not just a short "nice call" comment on a post.
This will make new members actually earn the privelage to trade and could improve conversation overall.
I've had a pretty large number of transactions over the years they have all been great with the exception of the one we are working on. There are some great people here that have great morals. Statistically I would say overall the amount of transactions that have gone south the last year or 2 is less than 1 percent, which is pretty awesome.
It is a shame that you have to take time out of your life to sort through the few exceptions.
Hope this helps.
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This will also encourage people to simply make a one word response to 20-25 posts very quickly just to get into the classifieds. It's a tricky double edged sword. If a scammer wants in, they gonna find a way to get in. Good idea in theory but I've got my doubts.
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Quote from: Pooh4459 on August 27, 2018, 06:01:50 AM
I think the classifieds are pretty great. I've never had any serious issues and most everyone on there is a real pleasure to deal with.
I will suggest though some kind of rule on the amount of time you have to reply back to someone when your selling or buying. Don't tell somebody you will take an item and then not log back on till the next afternoon. That leaves the other person in limbo till you decide to get back with them. Also if you sell something and the item is being returned for an issue then the seller should be responsible for all the shipping charges. Don't try to subtract shipping from the refund or say your not paying for the returned shipping. If it's your fault the item is being returned then why should the buyer be out one penny when they didn't get anything but there time wasted?
Who's to say who's at fault here? You send someone a perfectly good call, they open the box and drop it to the floor cracking the pot, surface, soundboard or box. Then they come back at you saying it arrived like that. You're out the call and the money both ways then. The one TRULY good thing I can say about this board is this: every member I've dealt with has been extremely, and I mean EXTREMELY, upstanding. They've been men of their word and I'll deal with those guys any chance I get. I've only had a couple of issues where calls were promised and a seller backed out last minute or decided on a different trade. No money exchanged or calls sent so, it's moot point really. I'm sure there needs to be some changes along the way but it's hard to stop someone that's bent on doing evil.
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Quote from: NCL on August 27, 2018, 09:56:48 AM
A fishing site I frequent requires 50 posts and six months on the site before you can post to classified. The time was added because it was discovered some would add minimal responses to get the post count. The site is really strict about the count and ads are removed if the count is not meet,
This^^^. This right here. I know the timeline sucks for newbies but it stops exactly what you've mentioned. 3 months might be more realistic considering that people fish year round and turkey season is fairly short but this is a great idea.
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Quote from: AT on August 27, 2018, 01:50:51 PM
Since I'm a low post member, I'll disagree. Just because I have a low post count doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to sell a call. If you look at the scammer list, the last person put on it had 98 post. That tells me it don't matter what the limit is. I don't do any trading and haven't had any luck selling. Guess I have a low post count. Some people look and listen rather than post so they are not going to have a high post count. If your new or relatively new you won't either. Does that mean you shouldn't be able to sell a call because you don't have a lot of post "No". The only people agreeing with this has 200 to 4,000 post. First time in 39 years I've have had someone to say don't associate with me because I have a low post count. That's the way to treat new folks to Turkey Hunting. Thanks!!!!!! That's the way to get new people interested in the sport.
You already have 23 post it would take a week or less to post 27 more times. Just takes a little effort. No one is saying not to associate with you. The classifieds has nothing to do with new people and hunting.
If I remember correctly you sold/traded an Albert Paul box and another box call. Also keep in mind a lot of guys are focused on fishing dove and deer hunting until fall turkey season gets closer.
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Yea and it's took 3 months to get those 23 and that's the point I'm getting at. Some people post a lot and some very little. That's exactly what it's saying. If don't have enough post you shouldn't buy sell or trade with them.
You are correct I did sell a Paul call but if this goes into effect I wouldn't be able to sell one. Which goes back to some post a lot and some don't. Guess the point I'm trying to make is scammers are scammers. There may be a more extensive Scammer list but the one I seen the guy had 98 post... so don't think putting a limit on it is going to help.
I think the member that suggested making a rule on a low post member sending their item or money first is perfect. If I have several positive feedback posts in the feedback section and your fairly new then it should be stated you send your item first and as soon as I get it I'll send mine. I've done this with a couple new members and most didn't care. If they have a problem with that then don't trade. I mean whats the difference really if I want to screw you over sending at the same time isn't going to stop me. I'll just send an empty box or wait for you to ship yours first. At least the feedback gives the new guy something for the new member to kinda know who their dealing with. Then they can decide if they are comfortable sending first or not. I also think more people should start leaving feedback for people. If you dealt with a fairly new member and it went smooth let is know about it.
It's a shame that a restriction has become necessary, I have purchased and sold calls on the site and fortunatly all the transactions have gone well. Of course i will follow whatever guidelines are deemed necessary. I too am more comfortable with money order.
I don't understand people being more comfortable with money order. If you pay through PayPal goods and services you are protected. PayPal will give you your money back.
I have sold stuff on several sites and if the value is over $50.00 then I add insurance and include it in the shipping price. The reason I use $50.00 is USPS Priority will cover the first $50.00. I have had one item lost and one item totally destroyed and the destroyed item was totally reimbursed including the shipping cost.
I agree with the comment about it is too bad these requirements are necessary but if you spent any time on various sites with classifieds you will eventually read about the buyer who sent his money and no item and no further contact. I have never had to file a complaint with PayPal so I can not speak to how effective they are are recovering your money in these disputed transactions. When you deal in website classified it is really a situation where buyer beware, no disrespect meant to anyone on this site.
Some things sure have changed since joining here in 2011:
#1 - Paypal Friends/Family "shouldn't" be a problem (from an honesty perspective). However, a few turds decided to completely ruin that. I've taken/sent plenty of Paypal FF payments on lots of sites and have NEVER had a problem because I'm honest and everyone I've dealt with has been honest. It's a dang shame when a man will steal and not fulfill an obligation!
#2 - The "post pics or else rule" should NOT have to be solely enforced by Shannon as he has a job and can't live on this board. That falls on EVERY MEMBER of this forum who encounters a thread with no pics. Either post "must post pics" or ignore it altogether, don't start working a backdoor deal. What's laughable is, the same guy who posts "must post pics" in one guy's pic-less thread (because he's not interested in the calls) is the FIRST guy to post "I'll take it" or "PM sent" in a pic-less post involving a Corder, Platz, Dawkins, Williams, c0x, Farmer, or insert any other rare, high-end callmaker's name here. The rule is the rule regardless of what's being sold/traded.
#3 - Trades - The problem with trades is when you have "that guy" who's looking to get WAAAAY over on someone. Whether it's "that guy" who's looking for way more in return for his super rare, high-end call OR "that guy" who's offering junk for the super rare, high-end call. If you're the one looking to trade the high-end stuff, set a cash value for your call then trade for a call or calls which are EQUAL in price. If you have junk or just lower end stuff, don't expect the guy trading the high-end stuff to be happy with it. STOP trying to get so over on folks! Getting the better end of the deal is one thing but making out like a bandit is totally different. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I don't believe in doing someone like that. Bottom line is each person involved should do right by the person they're trading with and both parties will be happy.
I've NEVER had a bad deal with ANY member on this board. There are some fine people here. However, I do realize that in 2018 you have to keep your eyes open for crooks and cheats. It's sad that this forum, of all places, has come to this. Sad, but true...
I have had between 450 & 500 deals on Archerytalk. In all of those deals I have only been ripped off once when a guy tried to scam me on a trade deal. 6 months later I ended up getting my money from the guy. He pulled the same thing on another member. I talked to him a couple times on the phone and told him if was 10years in a federal prison for each case of mail fraud...he just blew me off. It was kind of funny how fast we got paid after the Post Master of his town gave him a call.
Since that incident I have set some rules for myself that I try to follow on every deal. I don't follow every one of these "rules" 100% for every deal, but I do follow at least some of them. To me the biggest things are getting the other persons contact info and a tracking number.
WHEN I'M BUYING SOMETHING
1) I check their feedback( that isn't possible to do here). If they have negative feedback, I usually pass. If it something I"m really interested in, I will read the feedback for the reason it was negative. If it was something I think is insignificant AND they have a lot of postive feedback I will proceed...with caution.
2) I keep ALL pm's from the deal. When I respond to a pm, I quote the pm so everything that has been said is in one message.
3) Before I pay for anything I get the other person's contact info. Some I have to ask a couple of times to get it. If they don't want to give it to me. I pass on the deal. I had a couple people of try to leave me bad feedack, because I backed out of the deal when they would give their info. I contacted a MOD and everything was cleared.
4) I send the payment as soon as I know we have made a deal and I have received their contact info.I also make sure they know I want a tracking number and I ask when the item will be shipped.
5) When I get the tracking number, I check it to make sure it is a valid number.
6) After I receive the item, I make sure it is in the condition it was described in the sale thread. I then let the person know I received it and everything is OK with the deal. I then leave feedback for that person.
WHEN I'M SELLING SOMETHING
Again I keep ALL messages until the deal is done.
1) I send the person my contact info(without them asking) and give them their payment options(I never ask for paypal friends & family or ask for paypal fees after I have made a deal). I have found that lately quite a few people pay the fees or send it as friends & family on their own.
2) When I receive their payment(Paypal or money order) I let the person know I received it. I tell them when I will be shipping the item and that I will give them the tracking number as soon as I get it.
3) I give the person the tracking and let them know what the expected delivery date is.
4) I check the tracking number to make sure the item has been delivered. Then I check with the person to make sure they received it in good condition. If everything is OK, I then leave feedback for them.
I do basically the same or a combination of the these 2 for a trade.
I've personally never had a problem with any trades or purchases or sales on here. Everything in life is "buyer beware". Just be smart and vigilant when dealing with someone new and don't come crying if it doesn't work out. You and you alone are responsible for pushing your own buttons. I don't think Shannon (OG) should have to babysit other people's poor decisions for not doing some homework first. If in doubt....don't do it.
I've got 133 positive feedback's on Archerytalk and 209 positive feedback's on Ebay and at 68 years old have no idea how to post a picture. I got some great calls from some of the best callmakers from years of collecting but post pictures leaves me out out selling here. I always been able to text pictures to a buyer on Archerytalk with no problem . Would like to hear any thoughts,,dw
Quote from: Dark Whiskey on August 29, 2018, 08:10:31 PM
I've got 133 positive feedback's on Archerytalk and 209 positive feedback's on Ebay and at 68 years old have no idea how to post a picture. I got some great calls from some of the best callmakers from years of collecting but post pictures leaves me out out selling here. I always been able to text pictures to a buyer on Archerytalk with no problem . Would like to hear any thoughts,,dw
If u wanna send me the pics, shoot me a pm. I'll b laid up a while and have some time to play around on here. Make the post and I'll imbed the pics for ya. Might even swing a deal if we can come to an agreement.
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Quote from: Dark Whiskey on August 29, 2018, 08:10:31 PM
I've got 133 positive feedback's on Archerytalk and 209 positive feedback's on Ebay and at 68 years old have no idea how to post a picture. I got some great calls from some of the best callmakers from years of collecting but post pictures leaves me out out selling here. I always been able to text pictures to a buyer on Archerytalk with no problem . Would like to hear any thoughts,,dw
Step 1 - Take a picture and transfer to your computer
Step 2 - Go to www.tinypic.com
Step 3 - Click " Choose file" and browse your computer directory for the pic. Then click on the pic and click "Open".
Step 4 - Resize to Message Board (640x480)
Step 5 - Click "Upload Now"
Step 6 - (Possibly) Follow directions and enter provided code to fight spam. Click "Upload Now".
Step 7 - Look for "IMG Code for Forums and Message Boards". Highlight that link (all of it) and right click, copy.
Step 8 - Right click and paste that code into your classifieds thread here.
Hope that helps. It's very simple.
Quote from: wvmntnhick on August 27, 2018, 10:10:10 PM
Quote from: KYHeadhunter02 on August 27, 2018, 12:07:05 AM
Shannon I don't know if your able to do this or not, but block new members from having access to the classifieds period UNTIL they reach say 25-50 post or whatever number you decide. Also 25-50 quality post, not just a short "nice call" comment on a post.
This will make new members actually earn the privelage to trade and could improve conversation overall.
I've had a pretty large number of transactions over the years they have all been great with the exception of the one we are working on. There are some great people here that have great morals. Statistically I would say overall the amount of transactions that have gone south the last year or 2 is less than 1 percent, which is pretty awesome.
It is a shame that you have to take time out of your life to sort through the few exceptions.
Hope this helps.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
This will also encourage people to simply make a one word response to 20-25 posts very quickly just to get into the classifieds. It's a tricky double edged sword. If a scammer wants in, they gonna find a way to get in. Good idea in theory but I've got my doubts.
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I think the term quality posts was used though I don't feel like going through them all to double check at this time. That would help to weed out a few so they did not make the one word posts or so that one word posts do not qualify. I would also suggest that half of these posts much me shared articles that are about turkey hunting and that they can't be duplicate posts as well. I just don't want to see trades closed down, I do not do them because I can't stand getting rid of stuff because I am a packrat but I enjoy seeing others do it.
Quote from: wvmntnhick on August 27, 2018, 10:16:40 PM
Quote from: Pooh4459 on August 27, 2018, 06:01:50 AM
I think the classifieds are pretty great. I've never had any serious issues and most everyone on there is a real pleasure to deal with.
I will suggest though some kind of rule on the amount of time you have to reply back to someone when your selling or buying. Don't tell somebody you will take an item and then not log back on till the next afternoon. That leaves the other person in limbo till you decide to get back with them. Also if you sell something and the item is being returned for an issue then the seller should be responsible for all the shipping charges. Don't try to subtract shipping from the refund or say your not paying for the returned shipping. If it's your fault the item is being returned then why should the buyer be out one penny when they didn't get anything but there time wasted?
Who's to say who's at fault here? You send someone a perfectly good call, they open the box and drop it to the floor cracking the pot, surface, soundboard or box. Then they come back at you saying it arrived like that. You're out the call and the money both ways then. The one TRULY good thing I can say about this board is this: every member I've dealt with has been extremely, and I mean EXTREMELY, upstanding. They've been men of their word and I'll deal with those guys any chance I get. I've only had a couple of issues where calls were promised and a seller backed out last minute or decided on a different trade. No money exchanged or calls sent so, it's moot point really. I'm sure there needs to be some changes along the way but it's hard to stop someone that's bent on doing evil.
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This is why there should be pictures off everything in the trade from both traders and from every possible angle as well as all that being done in an open thread so everybody can see the quality of the items from both sides. As far as people being out both money and call you may be right on the call but if you send something through the mail you should always get Insurance, If I am not mistaken if you send priority through the Post Office the first $100-$200 is free anyway. I may be wrong about the amount but I know that it is free with one form of shipping that includes it free.
I mostly follow the same rules that Captpete so eloquently outlined. Following these rules so far I have never been scammed. I did have an incident a few years ago a guy with a low post count did not want to post a picture, did not want to meet in person ( we were about 150 miles from each other and I offered to meet in the middle) but instead suggested I call a local shop owner in my area to check on him. I backed out of the deal and he sent me an indignant email that I was calling him dishonest.
I do use Friends and Family if I know the person or have dealt with them and they ask. I have sent PayPal a lot of money over the years. What bothers me, some some unknown reason,is the person selling an item and then saying the buyer must pay the fees. Put the fees in the price. In today's world if you are selling an item, pictures are almost a necessity, and if you do not post them you will probably be asked. Even though I take terrible pictures it seems just the sending of the pictures reassures the buyer that the item is for real. I have never done a trade deal, just buying and selling so no real opinion on trade deals.