A few weeks ago, I managed to do some pre-season scouting on a hunting lease that I'm a member of. I found an area on top of a hill crest that appeared to be a strut zone where there were plenty of tracks running both ways.
On opening afternoon, I had a tom come in silent about 25 yards away. I wasn't able to get a shot at him and I think he circled behind me. Later, a jake came up the road and I passed on him.
Later, a hen came walking by and a tom was behind her. She was content walking around and he was in tow. I'm not sure if it was the one I had seen earlier, but I got him (9.5" beard 1" spurs). When I shot the Tom, I got up in excitement and ran to him, scaring the hen and another bird that I didn't know was there.
I've gone back to the area and hunted from a different tree a couple times. I haven't seen or heard any birds and there don't seem to be a large amount of tracks in the road. The weather has been pretty windy since then, which was a week ago. I haven't heard much gobbling either.
I went into the bordering bottom the other afternoon and hunted it since it was really windy and I thought that the bottom would be calmer. No turkeys, but I did find a few scratches.
Do birds generally leave the area after a situation like this, or can I keep hunting this spot? Any other tips in a situation like this?
I used to hunt a ridge top strut zone that was a great place to hunt, as long as I didn't have any witnesses. You didn't help yourself by jumping up and busting birds out of there, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. Go hunt another spot and leave that one alone for 4-5 days to see what happens. If it is an important area where they feel safe, it can definitely be worth hunting again. Letting a place go undisturbed for a time and hunting after it cools off has worked for me. I hope it does for you.
Jim
I would say a lot depends on that spot, I hunt a few of my good spots through out the season without "burning it out", they are my prime spots and produce the whole season, year after year!! I would say you need to hunt them "right". There are few properties I hunt with others and they can bugger them up fast...
MK M GOBL
I have killed at least one tom from the same rock the past 4 years. The area is a "safe zone, " as above. I only hunt it sparingly and always see birds. The less commotion the better. My streak will end at 4 unfortunately. The only legal access has been posted for a house built by the owner, who is a great person. Just the way it goes. I did get a 6 bearded tom there last year. I guess that was the cherry on top. Al Baker :smiley-patriotic-flagwaver-an :smiley-patriotic-flagwaver-an
One incident of spooking a couple turkeys isn't going to keep them from using an area they routinely use. If it did then they'd have nowhere to land. Turkeys get scared by something every day of their lives.
I'll hunt the same setup day after day. I've spooked birds on several occasions and have had birds back the next day. Heck, I've spooked them and watched them turn around and come right back. Just depends on the birds.
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As long as I am making contact I usually stick with them, otherwise I don't know what happens in between and I might wind up hunting a "Ghost Gobbler" for a couple days and I don't have time for that!
I killed 2 longbeards in 2 days from the same logging road a few years ago in the NC mountains. But I've had farmers spook the birds to parts unknown in a field in the east. Turkeys were there before season and the Case International tractors showed up 2 days before the opener. Birds didn't come back till close to the end of season.
I wouldn't worry about it. On several occasions my Son and I have taken more than one Gobbler through out the season from the same set up.I do try to change up my calls and calling though.
After the shot especially if I plan on setting up in the near future in that area i pack up as quietly and relatively quickly as possible.
I don't think there is a solid answer to that question. I once called up a flock of birds for a fellow on his private farm and he shot one of the gobblers. The rest flew off at the shot and we went and retrieved his bird. For two weeks those birds quit roosting on his farm and roosted on the neighbors farm a half mile away. Later on i called a group of 5 gobblers up on public land and killed one. He didn't didn't go quietly and I ended up running him down and finishing him off, scattering the rest off.
The next morning I went and killed another from that group and I could see the tree I killed the bird from a day earlier.
So to sum it up, the unpressured private land birds reacted quickly and decisively while the hard hunted public land birds acted like nothing happened. That's turkeys for you.
My brotherinlaw and nephew had 11 males (5 jakes and 6 toms) come by them one morning on a place we hunt. My BIL killed the only bird he had a shot at (a jake, he is my BIL, he is kinda special :)). It did bust the flock up, but I killed one of them in the same field 4 days later. It is a very small lease and not often do we see that many birds. Feel pretty sure he was one out of that busted up flock. Ya never know.
My clients and I have harvested as many as 23 toms from the same location in one season. This is in the corner of a large foodplot. One group of birds roosts several hundred yards, while another group that visits the foodplot roosts nearly a 1/4 mile away. If we harvest birds there, we usually let it rest several days. This same pattern has been ongoing for over 10 years.
That same strut zone I mentioned in an earlier post was one of the few openings on over 700 acres of tree farm. Plus, it was a ridge top along a powerline cut, so gobblers could see and be seen for a long way, making it a great place to strut. Every turkey knew it was there and was the place to be...still is far as that goes. As soon as one gobbler was taken out, another would take over a day or two later. We killed 6 grown longbeard gobblers off that one spot between 3 of us one season (which is pretty impressive if you knew the area).
The following year, the landowner decided that he was going to start hunting turkeys and he went right to that strut zone since he knew how productive we'd been there. The thing is that the landowner was impatient, didn't sit still, and over-hunted that spot. By the second week of the season, that spot was like a ghost town. Every gobbler that came near it was quiet, periscope up, looking at the cluster of trees that we hunted out of, and there was zero hen traffic. Other places around the farm the birds acted normally.
We ended up hunting other places on that land and leaving that spot alone. We still did well on that property, but that one spot was wrecked for the season by too much unnecessary pressure. Before the landowner started hunting there, we'd always be careful going in and out and would let it rest a day or two between kills. It definitely matters how careful & stealthy you are around a regular hunting spot.
Jim
Quote from: Cut N Run on March 22, 2018, 08:49:28 PM
That same strut zone I mentioned in an earlier post was one of the few openings on over 700 acres of tree farm. Plus, it was a ridge top along a powerline cut, so gobblers could see and be seen for a long way, making it a great place to strut. Every turkey knew it was there and was the place to be...still is far as that goes. As soon as one gobbler was taken out, another would take over a day or two later. We killed 6 grown longbeard gobblers off that one spot between 3 of us one season (which is pretty impressive if you knew the area).
The following year, the landowner decided that he was going to start hunting turkeys and he went right to that strut zone since he knew how productive we'd been there. The thing is that the landowner was impatient, didn't sit still, and over-hunted that spot. By the second week of the season, that spot was like a ghost town. Every gobbler that came near it was quiet, periscope up, looking at the cluster of trees that we hunted out of, and there was zero hen traffic. Other places around the farm the birds acted normally.
We ended up hunting other places on that land and leaving that spot alone. We still did well on that property, but that one spot was wrecked for the season by too much unnecessary pressure. Before the landowner started hunting there, we'd always be careful going in and out and would let it rest a day or two between kills. It definitely matters how careful & stealthy you are around a regular hunting spot.
Jim
I've been really cautious about my entry and exit routes. I'll take my time not skylighting myself on the ridge and not just bee bopping down the logging road. The tough part is I'm not the only person who hunts the property and I can already tell the birds are well aware of the human intrusion a little over a week into the season. Sometimes, I wonder if I'm wasting my time by moving methodically, not using a light in the dark etc. since all the other guys are doing it.
I am reminded of the words a wise, now departed friend spoke to myself and another now departed friend, "I hate to go there this morning, that turkey saw me a week ago".
Here's the deal. It's all about negative and positive reinforcement with pretty much every organism. For turkeys, if something negative happens at a particular location enough times, they will learn to avoid that location. If there are associated circumstances involved,...such as turkey calling from a turkey they can't see and/or with an unfamiliar, motionless hen turkey standing there,...even the pea-brained turkey will eventually put two and two together.
How long will it take that to happen? That's hard to say. Some of it depends on things like turkey densities in the area, and other things like the "positive reinforcement" elements that come into play. The bottom line is that when turkeys change their behavior due to something bad happening at a particular spot a few times, if you have the option, it is probably best to try something different.
I have to say the best trick I've learned while hunting the same ground year after year is to not always call from the same location. I have many areas that I will travel quietly for over a mile or so before making a peep. This calling your way in can screw things up if it becomes a habit. You can call that ground out on the way back just as effectively. It's just a trick that can work well. You can still try to shock a gobble on the way in if you need to. Ninja tactics
Notice everyone has different opinions and experiences. I think I can say I've experienced both ends of the spectrum on public and private (more public). While we try to assign habits and behavioral characteristics to turkeys, they are individuals just like we are. I also think they maybe a bit bipolar.
I don't know if I have ever seen turkeys quit using an area because of a gobbler being killed or bumping them. They will definitely become tougher to hunt IE more cautious. But turkeys are hunted every single day of the year. Not saying they won't frequent the area less or become extremely cautious while in the area but I just have a hard time believing they will completely quit using an area due to human traffic.
I could see them not using a travel route or adjusting their route to get somewhere but as far as not using an area that has a key component to their livelihood I have never personally seen and that includes public land. Too many birds get killed every year after being missed or screwed with all season.
I think if turkeys leave an area permanently there is a reason other than danger such as new food sources, the green up, etc.
Now all things being equal and they don't "need" that area I could possibly see them avoiding it. But if they are using a certain piece of ground daily or multiple times a day I would be willing to bet they will be back in there.
I don't know what state your in but we have a spot that gets a ton of traffic the first part of the season and as season progresses and the bachelor groups break up/ hens start going to nest that particular spot receives less and less traffic. Just as several places I hunt I won't hardly go in there until the middle part of the season as turkeys just aren't using it until the hens go to nest. You will be hard pressed to find a turkey track on it until the first week of April and then all of the sudden its covered up with tracks.
I would give it a few days off and get right back in there.
Biggest tip I can give is to sit still after harvesting your bird and let the rest move off at their pace. Jumping up and running to a bird, sending the rest off running and flying off only reinforces their fear.
Quote from: GobbleNut on March 23, 2018, 08:41:44 AM
It's all about negative and positive reinforcement with pretty much every organism. For turkeys, if something negative happens at a particular location enough times, they will learn to avoid that location.
That is positive punishment, not negative reinforcement. Common mistake. Negative reinforcement is the removal of a negative to encourage a behavior If you had a collar on my neck and shocked me until I handed you $20-you remove the negative stimulus for a desired behavior. If you had a dog collar on my neck and shocked me when I corrected someone - positive punishment by giving a negative stimulus (punishment) for an undesired behavior.
No matter how you name it, you are correct though. We have all had this talk before, turkeys can LEARN, but they can't REASON.
Quote from: g8rvet on March 24, 2018, 12:04:21 PM
Quote from: GobbleNut on March 23, 2018, 08:41:44 AM
It's all about negative and positive reinforcement with pretty much every organism. For turkeys, if something negative happens at a particular location enough times, they will learn to avoid that location.
That is positive punishment, not negative reinforcement. Common mistake. Negative reinforcement is the removal of a negative to encourage a behavior If you had a collar on my neck and shocked me until I handed you $20-you remove the negative stimulus for a desired behavior. If you had a dog collar on my neck and shocked me when I corrected someone - positive punishment by giving a negative stimulus (punishment) for an undesired behavior.
No matter how you name it, you are correct though. We have all had this talk before, turkeys can LEARN, but they can't REASON.
;D Yes, we have had this chat. It's been too long since I took those college classes. :toothy9: