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Turkey Guns & Shooting => Turkey Guns => Topic started by: nbkillr on April 19, 2011, 03:12:40 PM

Title: Point of impact
Post by: nbkillr on April 19, 2011, 03:12:40 PM
Has anyone experienced where different chokes does not hit where you aim and still using the same load and everything?  I used the same constriction (.660) choke but different brands and found that they aren't hitting where I aim.   
Title: Re: Point of impact
Post by: scastle on April 19, 2011, 03:20:31 PM
i have , and i have seen it in differant guns. a mossberg shoots low and right and a remington is right on.i have also seen a gun shoot good on paper and take it hunting and cant hit nothing,and vice versa.thats what kills me, me and you can have same set up and yours works great and mine not worth a poop.
Title: Re: Point of impact
Post by: goblr77 on April 19, 2011, 03:26:33 PM
Quote from: nbkillr on April 19, 2011, 03:12:40 PM
Has anyone experienced where different chokes does not hit where you aim and still using the same load and everything?  I used the same constriction (.660) choke but different brands and found that they aren't hitting where I aim.    


Yep. Most of the time it occurs from the choke not being concentric to the bore. Find the one that shoots straight and keep it.
Title: Re: Point of impact
Post by: bowhunter84 on April 19, 2011, 03:39:39 PM
Quote from: goblr77 on April 19, 2011, 03:26:33 PM
Quote from: nbkillr on April 19, 2011, 03:12:40 PM
Has anyone experienced where different chokes does not hit where you aim and still using the same load and everything?  I used the same constriction (.660) choke but different brands and found that they aren't hitting where I aim.    


Yep. Most of the time it occurs from the choke not being concentric to the bore. Find the one that shoots straight and keep it.
:icon_thumright:
Title: Re: Point of impact
Post by: deadbuck on April 19, 2011, 03:40:09 PM
I have had that same experience!!
Title: Re: Point of impact
Post by: Reloader on April 19, 2011, 03:54:41 PM
Quote from: goblr77 on April 19, 2011, 03:26:33 PM
Quote from: nbkillr on April 19, 2011, 03:12:40 PM
Has anyone experienced where different chokes does not hit where you aim and still using the same load and everything?  I used the same constriction (.660) choke but different brands and found that they aren't hitting where I aim.    


Yep. Most of the time it occurs from the choke not being concentric to the bore. Find the one that shoots straight and keep it.

+3

Even the same choke/brand and same constriction can have varying impacts, IE two JH660s may have differing POIs from the same gun.

Moral to the story is to sight in and hunt with the exact same ammo and choke.
Title: Re: Point of impact
Post by: pullit on April 19, 2011, 04:00:32 PM
very common
Title: Re: Point of impact
Post by: nbkillr on April 19, 2011, 05:01:23 PM
Thanks guys, I've gone back to my old choke that I started out with and don't plan on changing. 
Title: Re: Point of impact
Post by: grousec on April 19, 2011, 05:15:58 PM
I have had a couple of guns that had a true straight POI, and i don't like a gun that doesn't.  I also don't like using scopes.
Title: Re: Point of impact
Post by: stev on April 19, 2011, 05:25:54 PM
I too had a same problem my poi was off left and down
Took to my gunsmith and he fixed it up
555 IC 5,6,7 magnum 20ga
I aimed for the eye ball at 35 yds
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i218/steve_bucket/DSC_2475.jpg)
Title: Re: Point of impact
Post by: Spring_Woods on April 19, 2011, 07:39:03 PM
Quote from: nbkillr on April 19, 2011, 03:12:40 PM
Has anyone experienced where different chokes does not hit where you aim and still using the same load and everything?  I used the same constriction (.660) choke but different brands and found that they aren't hitting where I aim.   

How far is it off at what yardage?
Title: Re: Point of impact
Post by: jfair on April 19, 2011, 09:14:37 PM
Quote from: goblr77 on April 19, 2011, 03:26:33 PM
Quote from: nbkillr on April 19, 2011, 03:12:40 PM
Has anyone experienced where different chokes does not hit where you aim and still using the same load and everything?  I used the same constriction (.660) choke but different brands and found that they aren't hitting where I aim.    


Yep. Most of the time it occurs from the choke not being concentric to the bore. Find the one that shoots straight and keep it.

I don't understand this at all.  What would cause the choke to not be concentric with the barrel?  Maybe I am just lucky but I shoot an 11-87 and an 870 and have never had to change my point of aim.  Granted I don't go through as many choke shell combos as some do.  I shoot a scope and once it is sighted all my shells shoot the same POI, low brass, high  brass, turkey loads in lead and heavi, even when changing between chokes.  I can see a shot being high or low depending on the load but left or right does not make sense.  With a straight barrel how can the shot go anywhere but straight out?  I guess it happens, but how?
Title: Re: Point of impact
Post by: Gobble! on April 19, 2011, 09:27:11 PM
when i got my indian creek it was about 6 inches high and 4 inches right but im shooting a red dot so it didnt matter to me
Title: Re: Point of impact
Post by: Number17 on April 19, 2011, 09:37:09 PM
As the choke threads in the barrel it may have a slight "cam" to it instead of threading dead straight.  Thread it hand tight, and it may shoot dead low.  Give it 1/8th turn and it may shoot low right.

Them dag on Jakes at the Girlscout Camp aint gonna care one way or the other!
Title: Re: Point of impact
Post by: Reloader on April 19, 2011, 09:45:43 PM
Quote from: jfair on April 19, 2011, 09:14:37 PM
Quote from: goblr77 on April 19, 2011, 03:26:33 PM
Quote from: nbkillr on April 19, 2011, 03:12:40 PM
Has anyone experienced where different chokes does not hit where you aim and still using the same load and everything?  I used the same constriction (.660) choke but different brands and found that they aren't hitting where I aim.    


Yep. Most of the time it occurs from the choke not being concentric to the bore. Find the one that shoots straight and keep it.

I don't understand this at all.  What would cause the choke to not be concentric with the barrel?  Maybe I am just lucky but I shoot an 11-87 and an 870 and have never had to change my point of aim.  Granted I don't go through as many choke shell combos as some do.  I shoot a scope and once it is sighted all my shells shoot the same POI, low brass, high  brass, turkey loads in lead and heavi, even when changing between chokes.  I can see a shot being high or low depending on the load but left or right does not make sense.  With a straight barrel how can the shot go anywhere but straight out?  I guess it happens, but how?

If the choke portion is not bored dead center, the gun will not shoot true.  If the choke is not turned perfectly center, it will not shoot straight either. We are talking tiny measurements, but a little goes a long way.
Title: Re: Point of impact
Post by: jfair on April 19, 2011, 09:54:18 PM
Quote from: Number17 on April 19, 2011, 09:37:09 PM
As the choke threads in the barrel it may have a slight "cam" to it instead of threading dead straight.  Thread it hand tight, and it may shoot dead low.  Give it 1/8th turn and it may shoot low right.

Them dag on Jakes at the Girlscout Camp aint gonna care one way or the other!

Understand.  I would think that with how fine the threads are and how deep they go into the barrel, this would be minimal.  Smallest change here would have a large affect down range, so it makes sense.  Why would different shells move POI left or right?  I can see the wad affecting flight but wouldn't this be random?  Thanks for the help.
Title: Re: Point of impact
Post by: nbkillr on April 20, 2011, 10:23:42 AM
Quote from: Spring_Woods on April 19, 2011, 07:39:03 PM
Quote from: nbkillr on April 19, 2011, 03:12:40 PM
Has anyone experienced where different chokes does not hit where you aim and still using the same load and everything?  I used the same constriction (.660) choke but different brands and found that they aren't hitting where I aim.   

How far is it off at what yardage?

From where I was aiming to the center of impact was 12" low and 2" to the right at 20 yards. 
Title: Re: Point of impact
Post by: drenalinld on April 20, 2011, 12:16:58 PM
jfair - with rifles it is barrel harmonics, the barrel is oscillating and timing can result in great POI changes. I would think this can be a factor for shotguns as well?
Title: Re: Point of impact
Post by: jfair on April 20, 2011, 12:26:30 PM
Quote from: drenalinld on April 20, 2011, 12:16:58 PM
jfair - with rifles it is barrel harmonics, the barrel is oscillating and timing can result in great POI changes. I would think this can be a factor for shotguns as well?

Ok, I can see that.  I tend to analyze things too much and want to know why.  Sometimes "it is what it is", I guess.  Thanks for answering.
Title: Re: Point of impact
Post by: scastle on April 20, 2011, 08:04:08 PM
can you change poi without going to a gunsmith or going through a bunch of choke tubes?
Title: Re: Point of impact
Post by: new2turkey on April 20, 2011, 08:05:52 PM
Quote from: scastle on April 20, 2011, 08:04:08 PM
can you change poi without going to a gunsmith or going through a bunch of choke tubes?

It'd be easier to just change POA...
Title: Re: Point of impact
Post by: Reloader on April 21, 2011, 11:59:19 AM
Quote from: scastle on April 20, 2011, 08:04:08 PM
can you change poi without going to a gunsmith or going through a bunch of choke tubes?

You can. It involves two trees close together and it usually takes a few cold beverages to gather the courage.  Notice I said few as too many can lead to a new and very expensive cheater pipe.
Title: Re: Point of impact
Post by: new2turkey on April 21, 2011, 12:10:12 PM
Quote from: Reloader on April 21, 2011, 11:59:19 AM
Quote from: scastle on April 20, 2011, 08:04:08 PM
can you change poi without going to a gunsmith or going through a bunch of choke tubes?

You can. It involves two trees close together and it usually takes a few cold beverages to gather the courage.  Notice I said few as too many can lead to a new and very expensive cheater pipe.


Lol, I wasn't even about to suggest this.... I have heard of it used on the NEF singles though.
Title: Re: Point of impact
Post by: jebs chokes on April 21, 2011, 10:30:20 PM
slikeyboyboo you can change POI by cutting .002/.003/.004 shim stock wrap the one that best fits your gun choke cobo this is why I started building chokes to start whit  where the right haned thread torqes down thats where it pulles the choke tube to. turkeyhunter
Title: Re: Point of impact
Post by: 3" 870 Shell Shucker on April 22, 2011, 10:19:49 AM
My 870 and BPS both shoot 3"+ high of POA at 35 Yards.  I just aim a little low.

I have an NEF Pardner 12 Gauge Modified that originally shot 1 Foot Low, and 1 Foot to the Left at 25 Yards.  I bent the barrel to be dead on at 25 Yards.  It looks funny, but now it shoots straight and it throws a nice pattern with HB or HV Lead.  It's my "Yard" Gun.
Title: Re: Point of impact
Post by: drenalinld on May 01, 2011, 01:28:58 PM
I have a NEF single with a special order 3.5" turkey barrel and a Kicks choke. It shoots about a foot low at 40 yards. I built up some camo tape at the back of the barrel and corrected the POA/POI difference.