How many hens have you intentionally and successfully argued with as a strategy to draw in the gobbler who was with her and how, with what call or calls did you use to do it? Is there a certain time of the season where you found this approach to be more successful?
Have tried on numerous occasions. Only worked once. I was cutting. Buddy of mine does it all the time. He won't share his secret for calling in hens.
Don't have a hard number but I would say at least a third of my toms killed were in the presence of hens. Early in the breeding I go with a more amicable aproach because the hens dont seem to feel as threatened by another hen. Peak breading I get pretty aggressive with my calling. Whatever it takes to try and get the boss mad enough to head over for a face to face conversation. Sometimes they still head the other way. Several time I have broke the dominate hen off of the flock and had her at fifteen yards while the rest of the hens(and tom) stayed back and listened. So even when it works sometimes it doesn't work.
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I've gotten into a ton of shouting and shoving matches with spring hens over the past 25 years. I have always heard to pizz off the dominate hen and let her drag the tom in. Can't say as I've ever seen it work personally. It is easy to strike up a conversation with them, usually they'll holler back at some sharp cutting but always seem to hold their ground and just holler back at you. I've imitated every call they make, yep, it makes them mad but they seldom make a move to me. In the fall it's easy but they have 2 totally different mind sets in spring vs fall in my experiences.
Well, I have done it maybe 6 times, once which was my 1st time was most memorable. I was set up in a favorite strut zone where both gobblers and hens liked to frequent....I had heard a gobbler hammering on his own the day before at 11:45 am, our day ends at 12:00 so I couldn't go after him, but said I'll be waiting tomorrow.
Took my time getting in and was waiting at sunrise...nothing so I fell "asleep" lightly only to waken up at 8:30 by a hen who was cutting her head off. Once I got my bearing I knew she was behind me out across 2 fields and 3 hedgerows. Found her in the binos she was about 350 yds out....all by herself with the exception of a gobbler who proceeded to gobble every time she cut, which was often! I kept checking and no one else showed except the 2 of them. I got thinking about having read about calling to a aggressive hen....so, out came a glass pot and I cut at her hard, yikes that got her attention, she started cutting more and started my way and the gobbled hammered more! I would wait and cut again and she would holler back getting even more aggressive each time. So after 3-5 minutes of this I stopped and she slowly but surely kept moving my way, with him in tow. Now 15 more minutes pass and she cuts every now and then. So, I started back up and added in some hard excited yelps with the cuts....well folks, that's all she needed, she was ready to rumble....here she comes and trotting...she cut in the woods at about 100 yds and goes quiet....I waited 2 minutes and hit her hard one more time....thought she was gonna tear the leaves from the trees she was so mad!!! This ole gobbler was hammering now and my heart was jumping out of my clothes. She never quit and came straight in,...at 30 yds I saw it, this sweetheart was sporting a solid 8 " beard. She literally got to within 10 feet of screamin her head off....she finally passed and he stepped out for a peek....ONE LAST TIME. It was an unbelievable hunt and from that day on I have tried it many times, but clearly you need a willing partner to play the game.
Great story Culpeper,...nice work!
As others have stated, I have had some success with calling in hens,...and a lot of failures. For me, it is like Forrest Gump and his "box of chocolates",...you never know what you are going to get until you try it.
I can't say I have any real strategy in conversing with hens, other than just going with the flow depending on what they are saying to me. I'm not sure that mimicry is the best course of action, but it seems like that is what I always end up resorting to. Whatever she/they do,...I do it back. On occasion, it works like a charm, but often we have a nice little conversation for a bit,...and then she decides to go on about her business, whatever that may be.
Regardless, it is always entertaining,...and if nothing else, is another learning experience for me to catalogue in my ever-expanding list of "now what did I do wrong this time?" turkey hunting outcomes.
:newmascot: :newmascot: :newmascot: :newmascot: :newmascot: :newmascot: :newmascot:
GobbleNut,
Ditto, can't say since this my hunt that I developed any strategy either, and like you I have experienced very similar conditions where I did what I did the last time to a seemingly similar aggressive hen where she 'entertained' me for a while and went the other way. Another such story happened last season.
My buddy and I hit a gobbler bout 10:30 am, his response was good, not great, but it escalated soon after where he gobbled on his own about 10 times over a 3-4 minute period so we thought, heck, we better find a tree and get ready...he was about 250 yds out and we had good cover. Well, apparently his excitement fired up one of his hens and she started tearing it up with cuts and very excited yelps and that in turn got him more worked up in a lather. We waited patiently for Mother Nature to work her magic and we even jumped into the fray and fired back at her on my long box with some sharp cutting and we could tell they made a decent move toward us. After 20 more minutes, however, they halted, she stopped and he would gobble only now and then. We figured she gave him "what for" and told him he'll NOT be wandering over to those hussies if he wanted to finish his "business" with them!!! That's turkey hunting.
I've done it a few times. Seems to work well on Rio hens. I try to mimic exactly how she is calling, it really seems to piss them off, often they come in aggressive purring ready to stomp a noisy lady on their turf
Zero. I have killed a handful of gobblers that came in while I was having a loud discussion with a vocal hen though. But never called in a vocal hen with a gobbler following her. I doubt if I ever will. Simply because that tactic is way down my what to try next list.
The way I see it you work the gobbler. When that doesn't work cause he's w hens or going to hens there's nothing to lose. (Barring you aren't hunting same area tomo). I don't use every trick every time.
I often use fight scenes n it's brutal on some birds. Often the gobblers come running in. Often the hens come in first dragging the Tom head bobbing like kids going to a brawl they know they'll win.
Not my first option but a chance nonetheless n it has worked.
Knowing where the roost is n getting between toms n hens is the best option but calling hens is another weapon.
When they call, especially cutt do a little more. If she cuts back you may have her. Another option not many guys use it seems n one that's worked is kee keeing in the spring.
You can also use lost yelps but I feel fights n cutting are the best options.
Besides cutting is great for gobbler locating n often you'll hear another bird far off that is more willing to come in
I've worked the hens (successfully) so many times over the last 30 some years I couldn't begin to count. Our season in Pa. comes in at a time when the mature birds are henned up a good percentage of the time, so you better learn how to deal with them.
Remember, most hens are jealous and competitive. Often, when they hear another aggressive hen (you), they take the gobbler the other way. When I know or suspect a gobbler has hens, I will usually just soft yelp, soft kee-kee, and purr and cluck to pull in the whole flock. If that doesn't work, I go aggressive. Sometimes that gets the dominant hen wound up, sometimes you can pull the gobbler away from the hens, and sometimes you can pull in a "satellite" longbeard. Either way, the gun goes bang!!!
EZ, we aren't too far from each other, I am in Upstate NY so I am all too familiar with a late season and breeding...your response has weight, however, your prowess with wingbones might give you an advantage LOL with your ability to soft call and sweet talk the flock. To my mistake I find myself getting too aggressive (mimicking) too soon with a hen to fire her up....I will take your softer approach 1st from now on.
BTW, presuming you are the EZ I believe, your wingbones are crazy strong!
:camohat: Two years ago I was hunting with my friend working for a tom we were after for a couple of years on the same cranberry bog on the edge of a state forest in SE Mass. The tom flew from the roost and landed about 40 yds or so from us. He was joined by 5 hens. They ignored our calling and wandered away from us. We walked back to my friend's truck and drove down the road and watched the birds with binoculars. They were heading slowly towards an old cart road at the far end of the bog. We drove to a gated road in the state forest, parked and walked about a half mile to the cart road. At the end of the cart road I scooted on my butt along the edge of a berm on the far end of this bog. I peeked over the berm and saw the tom in strut about 40 yds from us. I scooted to the near end of the berm and raised my gun to my knee and got into a shooting position. My friend was 10 yds behind me. All of a sudden I had 5 hens come around the corner about 10 feet from me and they started putting, I froze and My friend scatched in the leaves behind him because the hens were too close and would see the movement and the hens looked at me. I was wearing a leafy suit and a slight breeze moved the cloth 'leaves' and they started to cluck softly and started scratching. I watched the tom come into view and had to wait 'till he came into a half strut and shot him at 20 yds. I couldn't have done it w/o some luck but most of all w/o my friend helping I wouldn't of had success. So yes I consider scratching calling if it helps bringing in a tom in range. It is a sound and I consider it a call and more often than not helped me to finish a hunt. By the way it was the last day of the season. :OGturkeyhead:
Calling in the hen with the intention of having the gobbler follow does indeed work. I have been successful with the technique about three times. It fails more often than it works but I keep the idea tucked into my bag of tricks. One absolute in turkey hunting is there are NO absolutes. Another word that should be removed from the turkey hunter's vocabulary is NEVER! ;)
Quote from: culpeper on December 16, 2016, 12:43:02 PM
EZ, we aren't too far from each other, I am in Upstate NY so I am all too familiar with a late season and breeding...your response has weight, however, your prowess with wingbones might give you an advantage LOL with your ability to soft call and sweet talk the flock. To my mistake I find myself getting too aggressive (mimicking) too soon with a hen to fire her up....I will take your softer approach 1st from now on.
BTW, presuming you are the EZ I believe, your wingbones are crazy strong!
Yep, that be me. Been hunting Otsego Co. for around 20 years. Where are you at?
And don't get me wrong, I'm not afraid to get real aggressive with them.......WHEN it's time to get aggressive.
Never. I've had conversations like others have state but never had a successful hunt while trying to push around a "dominate" hen.
Quote from: GobbleNut on December 06, 2016, 09:20:26 AM
Whatever she/they do,...I do it back.
That has been my tactic as well... Generally it does not work, but generally, it the tom is with hens nothing will... It did work for me last season, and has worked on several occasions... No other tactic, outside of ambushing birds has worked as far as henned up birds...
Later in the season, there is that magic hour when the hens leave the toms, and that is probably when I have taken most of my birds...
I've found that when toms and hens are in larger flocks (6 to 10+) they have a place they are going in mind and it's nearly impossible to sway them to calls or decoys. Smaller groups or singles are a lot easier. I've had a lot better luck staying mobile and getting in front of larger groups rather than trying to call them my direction.
I've done it three times that I can remember. The first two times it turned out the hen didn't have a tom with her. The third time we were set up on two toms and a half dozen hens in a bean field. We were in a power line easement that was separated from the bean field by a tree line that was maybe 20 yards deep. It was early in the season and the brush in the tree line hadn't started greening up yet so there wasn't much cover for us to move any closer without getting busted. We set up in a deadfall on the edge of the easement and I started trying to entice them through the treeline into the easement. Tried everything in my bag of tricks with no success. The toms would gobble occasionally but would not budge from their hens. Finally I tried slowly walking away and calling but that didn't work either. I stopped about 50 yards from buddy and started yelping and cutting as aggressively as I could. I was going at at it so hard that I was getting out of breath. Finally one of the hens started yelling back at me and a few minutes later I could see the whole group working their way through the treeline in to the easement. Pulled the toms within 20 yards of my buddy and he missed two shots with his crossbow lol. Missed the first shot and had enough cover in the deadfall to reload without being busted but missed the follow up too. We went back to the same spot two days later (I told him to leave the crossbow at home and bring his shotgun) and I was able to pull one in for his first turkey in the first half hour of daylight.
I've called in several hens that brought their boyfriend along on a string. Can't really say how because I think they were all just lucky, right time, right place deals. I've had more luck over the years leaving a henned up bird and coming back later in the morning. In the mean time I'll search for a lonely bird to hunt.
That's how I killed my tom last year. Set up in a spot they had been hanging out at but only one hen showed up. Thought I would practice my diaphragm call (I'm pretty new to turkey hunting) and just started mimicking her. She got fired up and before I knew it several other birds came sprinting over to see the fight and one was a tom
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I've called in five gobblers by pissing off the hen(s) with them. Two were when my best friend & turkey hunting mentor was hunting with me. He was pretty impressed. Like others have said, I just match the tone, intensity, and same rate the hen is calling to me with. Almost mocking her.
One time late in the morning at a property in Granville County, the only turkey I heard was a hen cutting in the distance. I decided to mess with her just to see what she might do. She played along seemed to get closer and more bent out of shape with each call I returned. Before long, she was on the next ridge and I could see her with periscope up, searching for the hen she heard. But, there was a big black blob coming up the ridge behind her, silent. My heart kicked into overdrive and messing around was over. I waited until they got down in the draw behind some bigger trees and I cutt loud and hard on my slate. Then I got the gun up and eased the safety off. The hen was visibly mad and trotted up towards me seeking to put that obnoxious hen she'd been hearing in her place. She walked right past me and I waited until her footsteps could be heard behind me before I got all the way down on the gun's stock. Once the gobbler stepped clear of the tree he'd been walking behind, I busted him at 18 yards. He weighed 21 pounds, had a 10.75 inch beard, and 1.125 inch spurs.
I pay attention to every hen I hear a hen sounding off on her own ever since.
Jim
I've done it twice. Aggressive, loud calling has worked for me but other times she'll just keep calling as she moves away. Some are more dominant than others.
I've occasionally called in a hen that had a gobbler but most of the time it's a lone hen that fires back at me and comes looking.
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Upon reflection, another tactic I did use once with success was to address the hen...
So say you have a hen 200 yards to the left, and a gobbler 200 yards dead in front. At some point that live hen is going to intercept him... So instead of trying to gain ground on the tom, I moved in on the hen.
In doing so, the tom came closer to both of us, and it seemed to irritate the hen into coming my direction instead of towards the tom... A decoy probably would have been helpful, but the hen ended up walking past me, and the tom did as too... Well, maybe not all the way past me.
Sounds like everybody has experienced the full spectrum. I've killed gobblers with hens several times and I don't think there's a single strategy that I tend to rely on. I've out cutt the hen and sometimes they come right in with the gobbler in tow. Sometimes they just take the gobbler away. On a few occasions when I knew that was happening I have circled and flushed them on purpose just to separate them. After that it's about getting that gobbler to you before the hen gets to him, almost like a fall flock. Other times, I've tried the soft talk and leaf scratching. That has probably been the least effective strategy I've employed.
I will add that I have fired up a bunch of hens and called them in with them being very vocal but alone. The interesting point of this is after they leave and things settle down and I am moving on, I have on probably 5 or 6 occasions found nests. I've often thought that maybe the reason for a lone hen that acts so aggressive.
I've killed a number of gobblers that came in with anywhere from 1 to 6 or 8 hens. But they came in as a unit............ not the hen(s) dragging the tom in.
I can yank a hen off with the best of 'em. I've had SCORES of cussing matches with hens over the years. Sometimes til I was near out of breath. Here's what I've seemed to notice................ When I get aggressive with a hen, more often than not it seems to instill a sense of competition in them and they take the tom (which they already have in their possession) and go the other way rather than risk bringing him TO a hen they might lose him to.
At least that's what it seems like to me.............
I have had very poor luck calling henned up tom's.
If I can get between the hands and the times, I am likely to be far less aggressive on the calling. Maybe a couple three yelps and a couple quiet clucks after a Tom is on the ground.
If I am not between the hens and the toms, I might get A bit more aggressive on the calling. Especially if there is a loud, vocal hen calling.
I have found that hen turkeys are a bit like human women, in that they do not like being cut off. When a vocal hen is doing her thing, I cut her off before she finishes each time. They do not always come in, but it always seems to aggravate them a bit more.
More often than not, my own calling seems to encourage the hens to take the toms in a different direction. However I have had multiple times when the hens have come to me. Sometimes dragging a Tom with them, and sometimes not.
Last year I called in hen twice with no time to show for it. However I also call In a hen that did pull in a tom with her.
I had one situation last year, where about three or four hens came in from different areas. The hens started fighting right in front of me, and there was a bird gobbling right below me. That gobbling bird never did show, and eventually all The hens wandered down towards the Tom, much to my dismay I.
Betting that Tom still had some hens around him. Several times I have broken the boss away from the flock only to have the Tom stay back with the other hens. Seem like they are at least smart enough to know we're their best odds of getting lucky are. I have had the best luck when he only has one hen.
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How many times have you ever come out on top arguing with a woman? Exactly as many times as I have killed gobblers by getting in a shouting match with his hens- never.
I have called up hens numerous times, had them "size up" my decoys, but never had the gobbler follow. I'd say he stays with the other hens, waiting for the new girl to join them.
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Man, I'd hate to guess how many I've killed while following a hen I was talking to. I generally go by the rule of "take their temperature". If the hen is talking and gets aggressive.......I give it back to her. If it is a "soft and delicate" situation....that's what I do. Quick story.....called in an entire flock one time opening day many moons ago. Hens were very vocal and the flock had 3-4 strutters in it. This big hen comes to me and ends up literally 1 foot from my big toe and is just going nuts. I get her so worked up that she actually GOBBLED at me! Had never experienced this in my life....shortly after my buddies shotgun ruined the conversation. LOL Still one of my all time favorite hunts!!! Turkey hunting is funny tho.....what works one day may send them the other way the next. One thing is certain......you stay on it and persistence usually pays.....Now that has accounted for a lot of birds for me.....especially in one of the toughest states to get it done.....Pennsylvania!!! Good luck.....PaLongshank.
Quote from: PaLongshank on February 27, 2017, 08:37:31 PM
Man, I'd hate to guess how many I've killed while following a hen I was talking to. I generally go by the rule of "take their temperature". If the hen is talking and gets aggressive.......I give it back to her. If it is a "soft and delicate" situation....that's what I do. Quick story.....called in an entire flock one time opening day many moons ago. Hens were very vocal and the flock had 3-4 strutters in it. This big hen comes to me and ends up literally 1 foot from my big toe and is just going nuts. I get her so worked up that she actually GOBBLED at me! Had never experienced this in my life....shortly after my buddies shotgun ruined the conversation. LOL Still one of my all time favorite hunts!!! Turkey hunting is funny tho.....what works one day may send them the other way the next. One thing is certain......you stay on it and persistence usually pays.....Now that has accounted for a lot of birds for me.....especially in one of the toughest states to get it done.....Pennsylvania!!! Good luck.....PaLongshank.
Wow. You got a hen worked up enough to do something that hens are incapable of doing. That's pretty good! Hens don't gobble bud. They can make some different sounds in the heat of an argument, but gobble they cannot. And take this from a lifelong PA boy, our turkeys aren't any tougher than anyone else's. Turkeys can be tough anywhere, or push overs anywhere.
Quote from: Farmboy27 on February 27, 2017, 09:09:51 PM
Quote from: PaLongshank on February 27, 2017, 08:37:31 PM
Man, I'd hate to guess how many I've killed while following a hen I was talking to. I generally go by the rule of "take their temperature". If the hen is talking and gets aggressive.......I give it back to her. If it is a "soft and delicate" situation....that's what I do. Quick story.....called in an entire flock one time opening day many moons ago. Hens were very vocal and the flock had 3-4 strutters in it. This big hen comes to me and ends up literally 1 foot from my big toe and is just going nuts. I get her so worked up that she actually GOBBLED at me! Had never experienced this in my life....shortly after my buddies shotgun ruined the conversation. LOL Still one of my all time favorite hunts!!! Turkey hunting is funny tho.....what works one day may send them the other way the next. One thing is certain......you stay on it and persistence usually pays.....Now that has accounted for a lot of birds for me.....especially in one of the toughest states to get it done.....Pennsylvania!!! Good luck.....PaLongshank.
Wow. You got a hen worked up enough to do something that hens are incapable of doing. That's pretty good! Hens don't gobble bud. They can make some different sounds in the heat of an argument, but gobble they cannot. And take this from a lifelong PA boy, our turkeys aren't any tougher than anyone else's. Turkeys can be tough anywhere, or push overs anywhere.
Hens gobble. I've personally witnessed it with two different hens. Also seen one of them strut at about 8 yards from me.
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Hens don't gobble bud
You would be incorrect ...it's rare, but it happens. Not the "fullest" gobble you ever heard...but they can do it.
I had it happen last year, and other active member of this forum was sitting 10 yards next to me when it happened.....
BTW- calling to the hens to bring in the gobbler is often the norm in area.
Farmboy......Wow. not gonna argue with ya. LOL I know what I experienced and am not in the business of making up stories or tooting my own horn....simply stating what happened this morning. I have never had it happen again...but she did gobble. Maybe not the gobble of an adult bird, but more like a very juvenile jake. So, if you care to try to blow up my story just cause you have never seen it....so be it. I speak truth.....have a good one. PaLongshank
Interesting debate, I've personally never seen a hen Gobble but know good turkey hunters who have. I have seen hens blow up and nearly break into a full strut when I'm picking on them. My guess is a hen can gobble but probably has a different sound than that of a mature gobbler. :z-twocents:
Treerooster.....that youtube vid was really neat! Very cool, have never seen a hen strut like that before. Her gobble was a little better than the one I heard but definitely very similar. On that day it happened, my buddy and I were just sitting by his bird reflecting and he said "we will probably never have another hunt like that again our entire life". Amazing what you can see and hear in the woods. Thanks for sharing.....PaLongshank
Cool video. That gobble is about what I have heard described by other hunters. She sounded about like I thought a hen would sound if she gobbled. As for the strutting that's more than I've seen. I've only seen a couple fan and display just a little. They would pull out of their display and resume cutting.