Just wondering for those who have hunted with a 12 gauge and a 20 gauge what the biggest differences are. Any other nuggets about gun selection and turkey hunting are appreciated.
Weight
I hunt with both but use the 20 more these days. Lighter to carry and maneuver. Also I load TSS in my 20 so it's prob more deadly then my 12.
Joshua 24:15
"But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord."
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I've never carried a 20 for turkeys but those that do seem to love them. I personally like the heft and feel of a little heavier gun. I bought a lite little deer rifle a few years back and sold it after one season. I thought that it would be just the ticket since we drive for deer and do a ton of walking, but I found that I feel more comfortable with the stability of a heavy gun. Figure it would be the same with a turkey gun.
Besides the already mentioned differences the amount of shot. Most 20s Max out around 1-1/4 oz shot or so. 12s can get you up to 2-1/4 oz w 3".,
Lots of guys will tell you about great 20 ga patterns. Usually it's harder to get there n may require shot sizes smaller than you're used to or is legal in some states.
That being said heavyweight 7s made by federal are great loads n I've seen great patterns. With the 12 you could use that size shot too.
Id shave a little Max yardage off most guns in a 20 for most people.
Also I'm a big fan of open forcing cones, some 12s come w em
Weight, range, and recoil. The 12 has more of all, but with a little research a 20 can be very deadly at normal ranges with factory ammo. I'd feel better with factory loaded HTL 7's in a well tuned 20 gauge then any lead load 12 gauge.
Quote from: dirt road ninja on June 09, 2016, 08:27:28 PM
Weight, range, and recoil. The 12 has more of all, but with a little research a 20 can be very deadly at normal ranges with factory ammo. I'd feel better with factory loaded HTL 7's in a well tuned 20 gauge then any lead load 12 gauge.
yup
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The only range difference is due to the pattern. A 20 g pellet has the same energy as a 12 g pellet (assuming same fps). 1.5 oz of 20 g HW7s has the same amount of pellets as 1.75 oz of 12g lead 6s, and more energy.
Gauge does not matter. Knowing how (and where) your gun shoots,...and at what ranges,...and then having the self-discipline to limit yourself to shots that you know you can make,...is what matters. Know your gun, whatever you use, and know its (and your) limitations.
Quote from: GobbleNut on June 10, 2016, 12:35:04 PM
Gauge does not matter. Knowing how (and where) your gun shoots,...and at what ranges,...and then having the self-discipline to limit yourself to shots that you know you can make,...is what matters. Know your gun, whatever you use, and know its (and your) limitations.
I think that's obvious but the OP was asking the reason some choose one or the other which there is a difference for sure
Joshua 24:15
"But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord."
Sent from my phone sucka
Quote from: dirt road ninja on June 09, 2016, 08:27:28 PM
Weight, range, and recoil. The 12 has more of all, but with a little research a 20 can be very deadly at normal ranges with factory ammo. I'd feel better with factory loaded HTL 7's in a well tuned 20 gauge then any lead load 12 gauge.
right there.
Another point is what you pay for patterns in the 12 vs 20. The guys that love and praise the 20 are usually shooting heavy weight or TSS. Lead for lead a 12 will beat a 20. To beat a 12, you're gonna pay! I just can't justify spending as much money per shell to shoot a 20 pound bird as what people spend to shoot a Cape buffalo or elephant. But lots of guys love tinkering with patterns and counting holes. It all depends what you like to spend you're money on!
Yes , good point as it does cost me $ 1.50 more per shot with the 20 and HW 7's . For this I get patterns and penetration I haven't been able to match with a 5 shot lead 12 gauge though.
So well worth it to me.
But somethings for shooter to consider.
Quote from: Life of Riley on June 09, 2016, 05:57:04 PM
Any other nuggets about gun selection and turkey hunting are appreciated.
In my experience with chasing numbers, the ammo makes the gun not the other way around.
Quote from: dirt road ninja on June 10, 2016, 11:06:50 PM
Quote from: Life of Riley on June 09, 2016, 05:57:04 PM
Any other nuggets about gun selection and turkey hunting are appreciated.
In my experience with chasing numbers, the ammo makes the gun not the other way around.
x2. Believer in this also.
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All things equal, a 12 guage will always outperform the 20 guage. Now the 20 will make a fine turkey rig if you want to put the time and money into it. There is really no wrong answer just personal preference and how much money you want to invest in it.
the biggest difference is going to be weight and pattern density. Comparing apples to apples, you're generally better off with the 12 ga. The TSS shooters (self included) are shooting smaller shot sizes to gain pattern density. I'll have my 20 loaded next spring with a load of TSS for when we hunt the club back home. Love my 835 but when you're walking 6-8 miles in a morning, I'd rather shave some of the weight. When not covering large distances, I'll take the 835 as I doubt my 20 will catch it even with TSS.
Simply put a 20 gauge with Federal HW 7's or tss is all that is needed for any wild turkeys in a reasonable, responsible range .
A 12 gauge is simply not necessary.
Unless you want to use it 8)
I've taken turkeys with my flintlocks as well as a hammer double barrel 1889 Remington 12 gauge for which I had to load for pressures that would not exceed 6,000 psi. With almost all of my turkeys over the last decade being taken at 20 yards or less, this has not been a problem. So...I'm going to leave my go-to Remington 870 12 gauge home and start taking the same in 20 gauge which will be more than enough to get the job done at 35 yards or less using lead shot via my Undertaker choke tube and be less weight to tote to the turkey woods.
Past 35 yards, and for most hunters shooting some type of factory load, there is some advantage to the bigger payload of a 12 gauge... Past 40 yards and utilizing factory loads, a 20 gauge would be a distinct disadvantage...
35 yards and under, there is no discernible difference in lethality...
But the carry weight of a 20 gauge is lighter... And the comfort of holding that gun up (in anticipation of a shot) for an extended time, or resting it on your knee is notable.
In my mind the advantages of a 20 gauge are not as notable for turkey hunting as they are for upland hunting. I carry a 20 gauge for all of my valley quail and chuckar hunting, and it ain't cause I am trying to be "sporty." Walking long distances over steep or brushy country, it is simply easier to get that lighter 20 gauge to the shoulder more quickly, easily, and efficiently. With good loads and reasonable shots, I feel there is a distinct advantage to upland hunting with a 20 gauge...
I now find myself shooting a lot of dove and pigeons with a 20 gauge as well... No advantage, just a fun gun to shoot sometimes...
the last several years I've been hunting with a 20ga. super bantam I picked up used, nothing fancy a good solid work gun. 5 1/5 pounds empty and with a sling. ssx choke
using the fed hvwt 7's I do not feel disadvantaged at all at 40 yards (or a little farther if misjudged the range) than if using a 3" 12 ga.
the only way I feel disadvantaged with the 20 is that if I want to shoot farther than 35yds with factory loads is that you are hoping they don't change anything in the HVWT's and you remember to get them before the season starts.
for the kind of hunting I do the light weight of the 20ga. is well worth it. It is very noticeable compared to the 12ga. 870 8 1/2lbs when sitting motionless in a ready position for any amount of time or slinging it over your back going up a ridge.(I'm getting old)
20 costs more per trigger pull to get the performance of the 12. I enjoy shooting my little 20 rig, but it is just for fun. I only need them dead enough to step on their head and the ranges I will take the shot, the 20 does just fine.
With duck and goose hunting, I only use a 12. Too many shots taken to justify the added expense.
Dove hunting, I only use a 20. I can kill at the same range and the same efficiency as my 12 and I just enjoy shooting the 20 more.
With modern loads, proper homework and range time and cost factors, it is just a matter of preference.
I have hunted ducks with a muzzle loading shotgun, just to prove I could do it. But it was just a fun project, nothing I would do with regularity. really have to keep your head down and concentrate on follow through as there is a definite lag from trigger pull to shot compared to modern shells.
Quote from: Happy on June 11, 2016, 07:07:44 AM
All things equal, a 12 guage will always outperform the 20 guage. Now the 20 will make a fine turkey rig if you want to put the time and money into it. There is really no wrong answer just personal preference and how much money you want to invest in it.
Well said.
My choice is 12 ga. The only advantage I see in a 20 is the carrying weight. The weights listed for an 870 12 vs. a 20 is a pound (depending on barrel lengths). So if a pound of weight makes a lot of difference to you, go for the 20. Heck, I can shed way more than a pound just by getting rid of unnecessary gear.
The 12's biggest advantage besides a much bigger payload, is the availability of a very wide range of ammo. Everything from trap and dove loads clear up to coyote loads are widely available and easy to find.
Quote from: EZ on July 02, 2016, 07:10:51 PM
Quote from: Happy on June 11, 2016, 07:07:44 AM
All things equal, a 12 guage will always outperform the 20 guage. Now the 20 will make a fine turkey rig if you want to put the time and money into it. There is really no wrong answer just personal preference and how much money you want to invest in it.
Well said.
My choice is 12 ga. The only advantage I see in a 20 is the carrying weight. The weights listed for an 870 12 vs. a 20 is a pound (depending on barrel lengths). So if a pound of weight makes a lot of difference to you, go for the 20. Heck, I can shed way more than a pound just by getting rid of unnecessary gear.
The 12's biggest advantage besides a much bigger payload, is the availability of a very wide range of ammo. Everything from trap and dove loads clear up to coyote loads are widely available and easy to find.
I can shed more than a pound by taking care of business right after I leave my truck (especially if I have already had some coffee and a chew!).
Quote from: GobbleNut on June 10, 2016, 12:35:04 PM
Gauge does not matter. Knowing how (and where) your gun shoots,...and at what ranges,...and then having the self-discipline to limit yourself to shots that you know you can make,...is what matters. Know your gun, whatever you use, and know its (and your) limitations.
Good advice! My 20 ga. is lighter to carry though.
Quote from: reynolds243 on June 09, 2016, 06:10:00 PM
Weight
I hunt with both but use the 20 more these days. Lighter to carry and maneuver. Also I load TSS in my 20 so it's prob more deadly then my 12.
Joshua 24:15
"But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord."
Sent from my phone sucka
you would hate to hunt with my NEF gun. I finally got a sling for it, since I found one at the co op in Bottomland and couldn't resist. No telling how many miles I've walked switching between hand and shoulder carrying that gun. It was all worth it though.
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I can get plenty of range out of either gun I prefer to carry the 20 its small and light
A lot of guys are shooting turkeys with 28 ga and .410 at 40 yards + now. 20 gauge may soon be considered overkill.
I will tell you this. I have a benelli blackeagle2 12 ga and a benelli m2 20ga. I will put that 20 ga loaded with 1-5/8 ounce #9 tss up against any 12 ga load out there other than a 12 loaded with more tss shot. It will out perform any 12 ga load at equal distances including heavy shot. That being said , you should tote and hunt with whatever you are comfortable with as long as it is legal. To say a 12 ga will just flat out perform a 20ga is not true. Its about what you are shooting out of it. Factory wise , a 12 will out perform a 20 but throw tss in the mix and we are talking about a different animal all together.
Those thinking of using the 20 gauge Longbeard XR (I am going to give them a look see) should consider the 1,000 fps and adjust their range accordingly. Winchester's advertising doesn't pass the smell test.
Quote from: silvestris on February 01, 2017, 08:53:27 PM
Those thinking of using the 20 gauge Longbeard XR (I am going to give them a look see) should consider the 1,000 fps and adjust their range accordingly. Winchester's advertising doesn't pass the smell test.
this is true. If i was going to use a 20 gauge factory load , it would be 3" fed hvy weight 7's only. Again , its personal preferance.
Quote from: Spitten and drummen on February 01, 2017, 02:11:53 PM
I will tell you this. I have a benelli blackeagle2 12 ga and a benelli m2 20ga. I will put that 20 ga loaded with 1-5/8 ounce #9 tss up against any 12 ga load out there other than a 12 loaded with more tss shot. It will out perform any 12 ga load at equal distances including heavy shot. That being said , you should tote and hunt with whatever you are comfortable with as long as it is legal. To say a 12 ga will just flat out perform a 20ga is not true. Its about what you are shooting out of it. Factory wise , a 12 will out perform a 20 but throw tss in the mix and we are talking about a different animal all together.
x2
I've never owned a 20 gauge when I was old enough to hunt I used what we had 12, I never had trouble with recoil because there was no option. I'd not suggest a 20 for Turkey hunting unless it was to get a kid started hunting. I never feel the recoil when shooting at game and there's plenty of things to reduce the recoil when patterning the gun(lead sled etc.) I was on a deer hunt once and a 12 year old girl killed a buck with her dads 7mag. there were two men in there 30's that had spent all morning looking for a deer one had shot with a 243.I was embaressed for them both lol. If you hunt Turkeys long enough your gonna get in a situation were you need the extra range and power of a 12 gauge jmo. And you don't have to worry about a nine year old trying to borrow shells in camp lol.
Quote from: Phillipshunt on February 07, 2017, 04:57:41 PM
I've never owned a 20 gauge when I was old enough to hunt I used what we had 12, I never had trouble with recoil because there was no option. I'd not suggest a 20 for Turkey hunting unless it was to get a kid started hunting. I never feel the recoil when shooting at game and there's plenty of things to reduce the recoil when patterning the gun(lead sled etc.) I was on a deer hunt once and a 12 year old girl killed a buck with her dads 7mag. there were two men in there 30's that had spent all morning looking for a deer one had shot with a 243.I was embaressed for them both lol. If you hunt Turkeys long enough your gonna get in a situation were you need the extra range and power of a 12 gauge jmo. And you don't have to worry about a nine year old trying to borrow shells in camp lol.
I think if you ever decide to try a 20 gauge you will leave your 12 on most days.. But now i do and will take my 12 on hunts also...kind of depends on were i'm hunting...
Quote from: Phillipshunt on February 07, 2017, 04:57:41 PM
I've never owned a 20 gauge when I was old enough to hunt I used what we had 12, I never had trouble with recoil because there was no option. I'd not suggest a 20 for Turkey hunting unless it was to get a kid started hunting. I never feel the recoil when shooting at game and there's plenty of things to reduce the recoil when patterning the gun(lead sled etc.) I was on a deer hunt once and a 12 year old girl killed a buck with her dads 7mag. there were two men in there 30's that had spent all morning looking for a deer one had shot with a 243.I was embaressed for them both lol. If you hunt Turkeys long enough your gonna get in a situation were you need the extra range and power of a 12 gauge jmo. And you don't have to worry about a nine year old trying to borrow shells in camp lol.
Lol. I will tell you that maybe you should read up on tss and a 20ga. There is not a shot i would use a 12 for that i wouldnt use my 20. I dont shoot a 20 because of recoil. I like toting that light weight shotgun and once again i will put my 20 with tss up against any 12 ga factory round including heavy shot and 3-1/2 shells.
Quote from: reynolds243 on June 09, 2016, 06:10:00 PM
Weight
I hunt with both but use the 20 more these days. Lighter to carry and maneuver. Also I load TSS in my 20 so it's prob more deadly then my 12.
Joshua 24:15
"But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord."
Sent from my phone sucka
[/quote
This guy stole my answer.
Quote from: Spitten and drummen on February 01, 2017, 02:11:53 PM
I will tell you this. I have a benelli blackeagle2 12 ga and a benelli m2 20ga. I will put that 20 ga loaded with 1-5/8 ounce #9 tss up against any 12 ga load out there other than a 12 loaded with more tss shot. It will out perform any 12 ga load at equal distances including heavy shot. That being said , you should tote and hunt with whatever you are comfortable with as long as it is legal. To say a 12 ga will just flat out perform a 20ga is not true. Its about what you are shooting out of it. Factory wise , a 12 will out perform a 20 but throw tss in the mix and we are talking about a different animal all together.
This is absolutely correct
One thing I love about my 20, and it is not recoil or the lesser weight in carrying it. It is that I can hold it in position longer without fatigue. It is a pistol grip and very light weight. I have never not killed a bird because I was waving my 12 around though. My 20 just points so nice. I was having neck issues and anything I could do to lessen recoil was a bonus for my pinched nerve is why I gave the 20 a try. I may pull out the 12 for nostalgia, but not because I need it. At 40 yards and in, the only reason Tom will not be dead is because I mess up (same for a 12). It will not be because the 20 gauge with HW#7 did not have enough punch to kill one cleanly. 167 pellets in the 10" circle at 40 yards attests to that. I am not advocating the 20 is better, but inside ethical ranges, it is not worse. How dead do you need?
I, in no way, feel under-gunned with my 20. As others have said, easier to carry, hold up for a while, and swing on one. I think this pattern is more than adequate at 40 yards. No reason for me to ever carry a 12 ga again
Concur. Great pattern.
Quote from: yella yelper on February 20, 2017, 11:19:22 PM
I, in no way, feel under-gunned with my 20. As others have said, easier to carry, hold up for a while, and swing on one. I think this pattern is more than adequate at 40 yards. No reason for me to ever carry a 12 ga again
these are typical with a 1-5/8 oz load of #9 tss out of a 20 ga. People get these kind of patterns even with a factory choke.
All of the vast years of knowledge on this forum and got people still claiming that the 20 is a kids gun...wow...just...wow... :TooFunny:
TSS is unfair! Killer pattern for sure.
I don't even think TSS is needed to get a stone cold killer at 40 yards and in. My 20 HW#7 has equaled any pattern I have ever attained with my 870 and hevi #6. There are plenty of ballistics charts out there that clearly show that HW#7 in a 20 gauge is at no disadvantage to any load of a 12 gauge in penetration and energy. If that Tom is tough enough to walk out of a 150+ in a 10" pattern at 40 yards, he is tough enough to walk through a 200+ pattern as well.
But if the 12 gives you confidence, have at it. All of the modern loads and combos, properly sighted in and patterned are all very competent at killing turkeys at ethical ranges.
Honestly, I could have killed plenty of birds with a 410 and #7.5 lead. I mean, inside of 15 yards, it is all overkill.
I guess maybe I offended a few people with the 20 gauge remarks lol. Personally the 1lb difference between a 20 and 12 870 is not enough to matter.And if the super TSS is as heavy as advertised the wt. difference between the guns is even closer. I'm not convinced the point ability or wt. difference is the reason people are handloading a super 20 gauge shell.
Quote from: Phillipshunt on February 07, 2017, 04:57:41 PM
I've never owned a 20 gauge when I was old enough to hunt I used what we had 12, I never had trouble with recoil because there was no option. I'd not suggest a 20 for Turkey hunting unless it was to get a kid started hunting. I never feel the recoil when shooting at game and there's plenty of things to reduce the recoil when patterning the gun(lead sled etc.) I was on a deer hunt once and a 12 year old girl killed a buck with her dads 7mag. there were two men in there 30's that had spent all morning looking for a deer one had shot with a 243.I was embaressed for them both lol. If you hunt Turkeys long enough your gonna get in a situation were you need the extra range and power of a 12 gauge jmo. And you don't have to worry about a nine year old trying to borrow shells in camp lol.
Being primarily a wing/clay shooter, I do not "feel" recoil while shooting at game either... That is not to say it does not effect me though. I see guys going to bigger loads to kill ducks, only to have their shooting get worse and worse (due to flinching issues).
Turkey hunting is extremely low volume shooting, where shooting a single shell generally means some degree of success. The recoil issues for someone shooting only turkeys is not at all the same as someone shooting too much recoil with high-volume shooting (as we generally hope for in wing-shooting).
Also when speaking of women and children, it is easier to find a gun that they can physically handle (as in properly shoulder and shoot correctly).
Quote from: Phillipshunt on February 21, 2017, 05:20:09 PM
I guess maybe I offended a few people with the 20 gauge remarks lol. Personally the 1lb difference between a 20 and 12 870 is not enough to matter.And if the super TSS is as heavy as advertised the wt. difference between the guns is even closer. I'm not convinced the point ability or wt. difference is the reason people are handloading a super 20 gauge shell.
Did not offend me at all. If you are happy with your 12s, enjoy. I think most folks just wanted to say that 20s, properly outfitted, are at no disadvantage to the 12s. Shoot what is fun is my motto. I like killing with my little pop gun.
Funny, I started this thread seems like forever ago. To update I never bought a gun. I'm not sure if I will this year or not. I only really shoot trap about 6 times a year and turkey hunted for the first time last year. Right now I guess I'll stick with my dads wingmaster 870 12ga. that he never uses. It's a fine gun, but in the meantime I'll keep peeping around for one of my own.