Before the rain came in Sunday I got to do a little shooting. I wanted to shoot this year #7s, last years #7s, and last years Magnum Blends but the weather didn't allow it. I only got to shoot this years #7s at 20 and 40 yards.
Temperature was around 55 degrees. Shot at 20 yards to make sure this years shells shot the same as last years shells. Luckily they did.
First pattern is at a taped 20 yards. The second is at a taped 40 yards.
Last year with the 3.5in 2.25oz #7s I got 324 in a 10in circle at 40 yards. This year I got 225. I know this is a great pattern but last year if a bird was hung up at 60 I would of took the shot, this year I'm going to have to give him a pass. Thanks Environ-Metal for changing the wad in these shells so they could produce deteriorated patterns. Lot number 300487.
(http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff333/ktgjsm1/7s_20yards_4-3-11.jpg)
(http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff333/ktgjsm1/7s_40yards_4-3-11-225.jpg)
Has anyone shot a 3in 2oz #6 Hevi 13 shell from this year?
If they changed the wad in those shells as well then they will most likely be patterning around 150 or less which can be achieved with lead.
Quote from: Spuriosity on April 04, 2011, 08:56:30 PM
Quote from: Gobble! on April 04, 2011, 08:40:57 PM
Has anyone shot a 3in 2oz #6 Hevi 13 shell from this year?
If they changed the wad in those shells as well then they will most likely be patterning around 150 or less which can be achieved with lead.
Just bought the shells from Cabelas, not sure about what lot # is from what year.
3" 1187 26" polished barrel/ JH .660
H13 3-2-6 (lot# 200926)
183/10 @ 40 and 62 degrees
on average thats where I have seen people in the past. I wonder if only the wad in the 3.5" shells was changed. I don't know and either do they probably.
Heads rocked at 20-30 with that!!!! :you_rock: Sign of the times...everyones cuttin cost and trying to make more $..Unacceptable to me when you have to cut an arm off to buy a box..And as far as making a poke at a bird at 60...what happend that we have to take that shot...I think it's because guys cant get a bird in beyond 40 anymore...Supposed to be an up close game.
I wish I had some of last years shells to compare my new ones to.
Quote from: Dwnforce on April 04, 2011, 09:06:38 PM
Heads rocked at 20-30 with that!!!! :you_rock: Sign of the times...everyones cuttin cost and trying to make more $..Unacceptable to me when you have to cut an arm off to buy a box..And as far as making a poke at a bird at 60...what happend that we have to take that shot...I think it's because guys cant get a bird in beyond 40 anymore...Supposed to be an up close game.
Doubtful
I prefer the 40+ yard shots. Its not really a problem getting them inside 40, most of my hunting partners have choke/shell combos that I wouldn't shoot 40 yards with so their birds need called in close. I enjoy the bird at 40 as much as I do at 20. I just spent all that money on shells and a choke so I can shoot the birds a little farther away. Last year 60 yards would not of been a poke it would of been a dead bird.
Quote from: Longshanks on April 05, 2011, 11:25:31 PM
Shooting a turkey at 60 yds is not turkey hunting it's turkey shooting. Been turkey hunting for 37 years and the sport has changed and not for the better.There's allot of people out in the woods these days with a high tech gun sitting over a pile of corn who call themselves turkey hunters. its a disgrace..
I must have missed the vote, was Longshanks appointed too write the rule "Book of what is turkey hunting" It is this kind of stuff we don't need! You have NO right to judge anyone's way of hunting as long as it is within the law.
The anti's use this stuff against us all. If you don't like the way someone hunts keep it to yourself or tell your wife. Do not put it in print. I have no right to say anything about the way you hunt, so Please don't take this wrong, we need to stick together or fall together. Marty
Quote from: Mag10 on April 06, 2011, 01:03:42 AM
Quote from: Longshanks on April 05, 2011, 11:25:31 PM
Shooting a turkey at 60 yds is not turkey hunting it's turkey shooting. Been turkey hunting for 37 years and the sport has changed and not for the better.There's allot of people out in the woods these days with a high tech gun sitting over a pile of corn who call themselves turkey hunters. its a disgrace..
I must have missed the vote, was Longshanks appointed too write the rule "Book of what is turkey hunting" It is this kind of stuff we don't need! You have NO right to judge anyone's way of hunting as long as it is within the law.
The anti's use this stuff against us all. If you don't like the way someone hunts keep it to yourself or tell your wife. Do not put it in print. I have no right to say anything about the way you hunt, so Please don't take this wrong, we need to stick together or fall together. Marty
:agreed: :agreed:
Quote from: Longshanks on April 06, 2011, 08:13:26 AM
I will clarify.. My biggest frustration is the fact that it has become a widespread problem in the state i am from that people are illegally baiting turkeys..one of my local taxidermists has taken in a large number of turkeys..guess what percentage of these turkeys have corn in them..100 percent.
I have also guided for allot of years and i have a number of guys that come in and take shots at 45+ believing that their high tech guns will easily shoot that far. It results in allot of missed turkeys.
I have taught allot of kids how to turkey hunt and i am certainly not promoting or teaching these kids to see," just how far they can shoot at a turkey". I have taught them how to call, when to call, and where to set up: as to bring the turkey to them. Has resulted in some amazing turkey hunters. The way we hunt is the legacy we leave behind.
Not sure which part of that upset you guys so much..the baiting issue or taking unethical shots..but the turkeys i see shot at less than 40yds away..regardless of how spectacular your gun is..seem to ride home in the back of the truck the majority of the time. :begging:
It's all called doing your homework and knowing your equipment. Guys that shoot TSS will laugh at 60yd shots. I suggest you go check out what those loads will do. Some guns with certain loads including Hevi-13 the good stuff can reach out and still kill effectively at the 60yd mark.
Quote from: Longshanks on April 06, 2011, 08:13:26 AM
I will clarify.. My biggest frustration is the fact that it has become a widespread problem in the state i am from that people are illegally baiting turkeys..one of my local taxidermists has taken in a large number of turkeys..guess what percentage of these turkeys have corn in them..100 percent.
I have also guided for allot of years and i have a number of guys that come in and take shots at 45+ believing that their high tech guns will easily shoot that far. It results in allot of missed turkeys.
I have taught allot of kids how to turkey hunt and i am certainly not promoting or teaching these kids to see," just how far they can shoot at a turkey". I have taught them how to call, when to call, and where to set up: as to bring the turkey to them. Has resulted in some amazing turkey hunters. The way we hunt is the legacy we leave behind.
Not sure which part of that upset you guys so much..the baiting issue or taking unethical shots..but the turkeys i see shot at less than 40yds away..regardless of how spectacular your gun is..seem to ride home in the back of the truck the majority of the time. :begging:
99.9% of the people here will agree with you about baiting being unethical, thats why in most states it is illegal.
But there is nothing unethical about shooting birds at 40+ yards if you know your gun is capable of it. 2 of the birds I killed last year were at 40+ one at 44 the other at 52 and I was 100% confident in those shots. If I call in a old bird to 60 yards from 300 yards away and thats as close as he is coming and I have took the time to pattern my gun and know what it is capable of I will take the shot every time with complete confidence.
Quote from: Gobble! on April 06, 2011, 11:05:46 AM
Quote from: Longshanks on April 06, 2011, 08:13:26 AM
I will clarify.. My biggest frustration is the fact that it has become a widespread problem in the state i am from that people are illegally baiting turkeys..one of my local taxidermists has taken in a large number of turkeys..guess what percentage of these turkeys have corn in them..100 percent.
I have also guided for allot of years and i have a number of guys that come in and take shots at 45+ believing that their high tech guns will easily shoot that far. It results in allot of missed turkeys.
I have taught allot of kids how to turkey hunt and i am certainly not promoting or teaching these kids to see," just how far they can shoot at a turkey". I have taught them how to call, when to call, and where to set up: as to bring the turkey to them. Has resulted in some amazing turkey hunters. The way we hunt is the legacy we leave behind.
Not sure which part of that upset you guys so much..the baiting issue or taking unethical shots..but the turkeys i see shot at less than 40yds away..regardless of how spectacular your gun is..seem to ride home in the back of the truck the majority of the time. :begging:
99.9% of the people here will agree with you about baiting being unethical, thats why in most states it is illegal.
But there is nothing unethical about shooting birds at 40+ yards if you know your gun is capable of it. 2 of the birds I killed last year were at 40+ one at 44 the other at 52 and I was 100% confident in those shots. If I call in a old bird to 60 yards from 300 yards away and thats as close as he is coming and I have took the time to pattern my gun and know what it is capable of I will take the shot every time with complete confidence.
:agreed:
My patterns are spolid 40 yard patterns, but it is the limit for my gun. If my gun would produce the same patterns further downrange, I''d feel comforrtable shooting as far away as I knew patterns/ ethical velocity will hold.
The fact that some hunters have guns/chokes/shells that will effectively kill a turkey at 50+ yards doesn't mean that they will always shoot at them at that distance. I love getting a smart old tom in close 25-35 yds and knowing that my hard work and hard hunting paid off. But we all know that there are times in turkey hunting when that bird just "hangs up" or just want come any further. Knowing my gun has the ability and has proven that it can kill a bird at 50yds is good to know. There are not many turkey hunters I know that would let a mature 4-5yr old bird walk if he wouldn't come any closer than 50yds. I know I'd smash him and I'm sure most of you would too if you could.
I'm not saying that you can't kill one at 60yds. My point is that you will lose some at that distance. I have seen it happen with the best gun/choke/shell combos. Shooting in a hunting situation is allot different than shooting off a rest in perfect conditions.
I don't like to see turkeys crippled so rather than take a questionable shot I would let him walk. It's about respect for the wild turkey.
Quote from: Longshanks on April 06, 2011, 08:13:26 AM
I will clarify..illegally baiting has become a serious problem where I am from..
I have also guided for allot of years and i have a number of guys that come in and take shots at 45+ believing that their high tech guns will easily shoot that far. It results in allot of missed turkeys.
I have taught allot of kids how to turkey hunt and i am certainly not promoting or teaching these kids to see," just how far they can shoot at a turkey". I have taught them how to call, when to call, and where to set up: as to bring the turkey to them. Has resulted in some amazing turkey hunters. The way we hunt is the legacy we leave behind.
Not sure which part of that upset you guys so much..the baiting issue or taking unethical shots..but the turkeys i see shot at less than 40yds away..regardless of how spectacular your gun is..seem to ride home in the back of the truck the majority of the time. :begging:
I'm with you on this one, I have read a number of times about nimrods that hear about the new super shells and are shooting at birds 50+ yards with out ever patterning there guns, they are doing more to damage our sport than anything, peppering birds and letting them die a slow death because they read that these new shells will kill birds at unheard of ranges is not cool! I worked next to a guy that sat on the phone and blabbed to his friends how he had these new shells "Hevi-13" and he could shoot 60-70+ he was using his factory full choke and could not figure out why the birds he had shot at of the weekend did not die but he told his Friends they all needed to buy the shells so they could shoot long range to! I begged him to buy a good choke and pattern his gun but he looked at me like I was from Mars.
I wanted to bounce his head off the table! I think (just my 2 cents) if a guy spends the time to dial in a rig to 50 he should spend an equal amount of time learning to get the bird inside 40 so he can crush him at 50 if needed and not spray and pray at 60, well that's my rant sorry!
Kurt
Quote from: Longshanks on April 06, 2011, 11:53:47 AM
I'm not saying that you can't kill one at 60yds. My point is that you will lose some at that distance. I have seen it happen with the best gun/choke/shell combos. Shooting in a hunting situation is allot different than shooting off a rest in perfect conditions.
I don't like to see turkeys crippled so rather than take a questionable shot I would let him walk. It's about respect for the wild turkey.
not if you know your gun and the situation. I'm not saying Im going to fire off a shell at a old bird running at 60 yards.
Quote from: Hay Flats on April 06, 2011, 12:05:59 PM
Quote from: Longshanks on April 06, 2011, 08:13:26 AM
I will clarify..illegally baiting has become a serious problem where I am from..
I have also guided for allot of years and i have a number of guys that come in and take shots at 45+ believing that their high tech guns will easily shoot that far. It results in allot of missed turkeys.
I have taught allot of kids how to turkey hunt and i am certainly not promoting or teaching these kids to see," just how far they can shoot at a turkey". I have taught them how to call, when to call, and where to set up: as to bring the turkey to them. Has resulted in some amazing turkey hunters. The way we hunt is the legacy we leave behind.
Not sure which part of that upset you guys so much..the baiting issue or taking unethical shots..but the turkeys i see shot at less than 40yds away..regardless of how spectacular your gun is..seem to ride home in the back of the truck the majority of the time. :begging:
I'm with you on this one, I have read a number of times about nimrods that hear about the new super shells and are shooting at birds 50+ yards with out ever patterning there guns, they are doing more to damage our sport than anything, peppering birds and letting them die a slow death because they read that these new shells will kill birds at unheard of ranges is not cool! I worked next to a guy that sat on the phone and blabbed to his friends how he had these new shells "Hevi-13" and he could shoot 60-70+ he was using his factory full choke and could not figure out why the birds he had shot at of the weekend did not die but he told his Friends they all needed to buy the shells so they could shoot long range to! I begged him to buy a good choke and pattern his gun but he looked at me like I was from Mars.
I wanted to bounce his head off the table! I think (just my 2 cents) if a guy spends the time to dial in a rig to 50 he should spend an equal amount of time learning to get the bird inside 40 so he can crush him at 50 if needed and not spray and pray at 60, well that's my rant sorry!
Kurt
I would be willing to guarantee you your friend never patterned that gun at 60-70 yards. People like him are the ones giving people like some of us bad names who actually put the time in to pattern our guns at 50 and 60 yards
Read this and tell me that this was an unethical shot. The only guy I know that wished he wouldn't have shot that shot was the bird. :z-guntootsmiley:
http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=614499
Quote from: Hay Flats on April 06, 2011, 12:05:59 PM
Quote from: Longshanks on April 06, 2011, 08:13:26 AM
I will clarify..illegally baiting has become a serious problem where I am from..
I have also guided for allot of years and i have a number of guys that come in and take shots at 45+ believing that their high tech guns will easily shoot that far. It results in allot of missed turkeys.
I have taught allot of kids how to turkey hunt and i am certainly not promoting or teaching these kids to see," just how far they can shoot at a turkey". I have taught them how to call, when to call, and where to set up: as to bring the turkey to them. Has resulted in some amazing turkey hunters. The way we hunt is the legacy we leave behind.
Not sure which part of that upset you guys so much..the baiting issue or taking unethical shots..but the turkeys i see shot at less than 40yds away..regardless of how spectacular your gun is..seem to ride home in the back of the truck the majority of the time. :begging:
I'm with you on this one, I have read a number of times about nimrods that hear about the new super shells and are shooting at birds 50+ yards with out ever patterning there guns, they are doing more to damage our sport than anything, peppering birds and letting them die a slow death because they read that these new shells will kill birds at unheard of ranges is not cool! I worked next to a guy that sat on the phone and blabbed to his friends how he had these new shells "Hevi-13" and he could shoot 60-70+ he was using his factory full choke and could not figure out why the birds he had shot at of the weekend did not die but he told his Friends they all needed to buy the shells so they could shoot long range to! I begged him to buy a good choke and pattern his gun but he looked at me like I was from Mars.
I wanted to bounce his head off the table! I think (just my 2 cents) if a guy spends the time to dial in a rig to 50 he should spend an equal amount of time learning to get the bird inside 40 so he can crush him at 50 if needed and not spray and pray at 60, well that's my rant sorry!
Kurt
These nimrods that you speak of are probably not real turkey hunters if you actually think about it. They are probably some of the same people that are hunting over bait. If you think turkey hunting over a corn pile is hunting then you are badley mistaken. The comment was made that these shells are super shells and that people think that they can kill birds at unheard of distances. I would be willing to bet that the people making these shots have not been turkey hunting long and don't really understand the whole concept of patterning your gun and what different chokes are for. I've never seen any major ammo manufactor promote shooting turkeys at 60, 70, 80 yds. If anyone out there has please let me know.
Thank you.
The spray and pray people are the same ones that did it with lead and will never change..just cause they dont do it right doesn't mean the rest of us cant do it either..!. Guns that produce a killing pattern at 50 or 60yds do just that "KILL" and very effectivly in the right hands.
When Taking a client hunting u set the guidelines if u let him pull the trigger at extended ranges then the money meant more than the birds and u are just as guilty of spray and pray unless u know that he and his equipment are capable of making a clean kill at extended ranges under pressure.
Quote from: K-ZONE on April 06, 2011, 08:26:40 PM
The spray and pray people are the same ones that did it with lead and will never change..just cause they dont do it right doesn't mean the rest of us cant do it either..!. Guns that produce a killing pattern at 50 or 60yds do just that "KILL" and very effectivly in the right hands.
This pretty much sums it up for me.I shoot lead and hold my shots to 30 or less.I have tried HTL out of my 20 and would shoot a bird at 45 with the utmost confidence,but I only choose to shoot close because I made that decision,not anybody else.i get tired of hearing the "good ole boy" locals talk about killing turkeys with long barrelled full choke 10 gauges at 80 yds.Possible,yes.Lucky,more than likely.The guys that shoot the HTL stuff,especially the TSS loads,have proven their guns are VERY capable of reaching out and putting the smackdown at 50+.I have no problem with this,as these guys made the ethical choice of making sure what they and their guns could do.Make your own choices,but make them under proven results,not what your buddies said or something from the internet.
Quote from: Longshanks on April 06, 2011, 09:02:28 PM
I make them pattern their guns when they get here.. and if they do something stupid like shoot before i say they leave with no refund..cant stop a grown man that acts like a child from pulling the trigger when he has the gun in his hand...if you can figure out how to do that give me a shout smartass..and furthermore just because a man can hit a piece of paper at 40+ yds doesnt mean he can pull it off on a wild turkey..next time you shoot at a turkey at 60yds and he flies off just remember this little discussion.
So say a customer comes in and a bird hangs up at 50 and you don't let him shoot even though he has done the work patterning his gun knowing what it is capable of. You provide him with a full refund and schedule him in again at his earliest convenience correct?
Quote from: jakesdad on April 06, 2011, 09:27:28 PM
Quote from: K-ZONE on April 06, 2011, 08:26:40 PM
The spray and pray people are the same ones that did it with lead and will never change..just cause they dont do it right doesn't mean the rest of us cant do it either..!. Guns that produce a killing pattern at 50 or 60yds do just that "KILL" and very effectivly in the right hands.
This pretty much sums it up for me.I shoot lead and hold my shots to 30 or less.I have tried HTL out of my 20 and would shoot a bird at 45 with the utmost confidence,but I only choose to shoot close because I made that decision,not anybody else.i get tired of hearing the "good ole boy" locals talk about killing turkeys with long barrelled full choke 10 gauges at 80 yds.Possible,yes.Lucky,more than likely.The guys that shoot the HTL stuff,especially the TSS loads,have proven their guns are VERY capable of reaching out and putting the smackdown at 50+.I have no problem with this,as these guys made the ethical choice of making sure what they and their guns could do.Make your own choices,but make them under proven results,not what your buddies said or something from the internet.
well said
In my own opinion and this is just mine , the guys that take the longer shots, 60 plus haven't really hunted all that long. 50 is along ways and I just wish I had a pattern at 50 incase I misjudge one at 40. I prefer 20 to 30 yards
Longshanks--Wrong,mister shoot at 60 yrds.........I don't know if that was directed at me or not.... I would NOT take a shot at 60yrds 40 is my max, I said I just wish I had a gun that would pattern at 50 , just incase I would misjudge my 40 yard shot and still make a ethical kill,, I prefer them close thats half the fun, I said I think the guys that try to shoot 60 plus really haven't hunted that long,, new guys that think all the new stuff makes clean kills at the longer ranges is just wrong.
No sir, that was directed at the two gentlemen before you. I respect what you had to say and can tell you are an experienced turkey hunter. I cantfigure out how to pull down a window, sorry for the confusion.
Longshanks--yeah sorry I was confused also ;D You can click on the quote and make a reply to their topic... For what we have said, It is amazing that you hear of all these long shots but I am positive that people who take these shots DO cripple some birds , but certainly nobody is going to post that they crippled one this weekend you know that happens. You owe it to the animal that you hunt be what ever it is or how ever it is pursued to make a ethical clean kill. :icon_thumright:
Well said doepee..can tell that you truly appreciate the wild turkey and turkey hunting. Sometimes i listen to people talk about shooting long range and it seems they have missed the most exciting part of turkey hunting. Fooling the turkey with calling and making him come look for you and walking right to your position. Watching him in all of his glory strutting and drumming right in front of you and gobbling so close to you that it gives you chills. If you dont fool him its "ok" if he walks away. The fun is over when you shoot... unless you just hunt turkeys to brag about killing them. Im very thankful that my old dad taught me and showed me how to turkey hunt and to appreciate the wild turkey. Immaturity and inexperience in turkey hunting is revealed when a man just has to take a long range shot at a turkey that could result in crippling him just because he cant stand the thought of not killing every turkey they come across.
Quite a few years ago before I started huntin turkeys I did nothing but bowhunt for deer{I still do} and I let alot of them pass by. Alot of people don't ... Then when I started huntin turkeys the fun part was callin them in close, when they gobble right in front of ya , Thats excitin, that beat bowhunting... I got so many calls I never know which ones I want to use. That is the fun part to me, choosing the call and workin the bird and watching and listening to him, I have let birds go that I thought were out of range..doesn't bother me , theres always tomorrow...I would rather be sure than loose a wounded one. Don't get me wrong I love blastin one , but like you said then its over.. :icon_thumright:
Sure them guns might pattern well at 60 yrds, and I am sure there are kills at that range, but when you shoot at the range for patterning its always a whole lot different in the hunting situation...Like I said, nobody posts CRIPPLED ONE AT 60 .... and everyone has their own opinion :icon_thumright:
ILIKE HEVI 13,
I shoot a beretta xtrema hevi 13 3.5/ 2.25/ 7's, Urika Hevi 13 3/ 2/ 7's, Rem 870 Fed HW
3/ 1 7/8 / 7's. Been shooting 7's for years from nitro and Fed before Hevi 13 started producing them. I am quite aware of what the guns look like on paper. I have seen custom guns from nitro that pattern awesome on paper knock turkeys down at long range as well as many other guns. The reason is there are allot of factors in a hunting situation that are not present in an "ivory tower" situation shooting off of a rest at paper. The first thing is the turkey is "alive"and can move. He is called a "wild turkey". The other is that if you are in the woods looking at a bird at 60yds in early light..you cant see all the limbs. Also sit at the base of a tree for 2-3 hours without moving and then throw up and shoot at 50-60yds (little different than a rest) I could go on and on about different factors that are present in hunting situations. Also im sure you have noticed that there can be a inconsistency in all shotgun shells. Patterns look different all the time with the same load in the same gun. Also weather conditions effect patterns somtimes significantly. Less than 40yds your generally ok. Stretching the shot and you got problems. I kill a limit of turkeys every year and have for 25 years. They are all within 40-45yds..interesting that yall think thats not possible as i know you are avid turkey hunters.
I see what you are saying. And I will also admit that wind will play havoc on longer shots with patterns. So on a windy day I for sure wouldn't recommend a longer shot. But I agree 30-40yds is where I like to shoot em. :icon_thumright:
The real sport in turkey hunting is making him gobble at 3 feet,then spook him and try to get him at 80 yds. The best of both worlds, up close and personal combined with long range marksmanship. Just kidding for those who may have been offended by this. :z-guntootsmiley:
Quote from: coyotetrpr on April 07, 2011, 02:56:21 PM
The real sport in turkey hunting is making him gobble at 3 feet,then spook him and try to get him at 80 yds. The best of both worlds, up close and personal combined with long range marksmanship. Just kidding for those who may have been offended by this. :z-guntootsmiley:
;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Longshanks on April 05, 2011, 11:25:31 PM
Shooting a turkey at 60 yds is not turkey hunting it's turkey shooting. Been turkey hunting for 37 years and the sport has changed and not for the better.There's allot of people out in the woods these days with a high tech gun sitting over a pile of corn who call themselves turkey hunters. its a disgrace..
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