It's a common practice with a few guys I know to go out several times before the opener and call birds. If you push these guys a little, they'll admit to spooking some of them. Probably more than they admit, and I'm sure there are others that they aren't even aware of. It's just my opinion, but it never made sense to me to go out and harass the birds like that before season. I try to be very low key any time I'm in the woods and especially with my pre season scouting. We can spook birds any time we're in the woods and they get over it and go about their business, but I've never agreed with calling birds in close, pre season.
I'm not talking about hammering out a cackle from a high point somewhere, getting an answer and backing out knowing you have a bird there to hunt and leaving him alone til season. I'm talking actually setting up on birds and calling them in prior to season. What are your thoughts?
Bob
I don't but know those who do and it seems like I get to hear them say every year "I don't understand it he came right in before season" or "we called him in twice before season but today he just went the other way"
Then you got those who go out call birds in somewhere they don't hunt, problem is someone else may hunt there. Why ruin someone elses spot?
I'm against it and wont do it myself but too each their own I suppose.
I don't educate birds. Honestly though, my first thought was "moron".
Setting up and calling them in is not good, obviously the risk of spooking turkeys and there are more out there other than the one gobbling. I hunted one for 6 days one time had him in range a couple of times but could not see him. The more I hunted him the less he responded, I finally killed him by not calling to him
I concur. I know a hunter who has called gobblers up to his truck while using a box call. I don't understand it but he likes to hear them gobble. I suggested to him to use a crow or other shock 'em call but it goes in one ear and out the other. Some peeps have no common sense ...
I have heard guys tell me they have called to birds at a distance to hear them (which I think is dumb), but I have never heard of anyone actually setting up and calling a bird in. That takes it to another level of stupidity. For me, I don't take a turkey call into the woods when I am scouting. Getting a bird in range can be hard enough when they aren't educated.
I can remember doing it when I was just starting out hunting. The only thing it did for me was to boost a little confidence that I could call one in. I have had two different students approach me already this year here in Missouri bragging about calling in some birds. I gave them both the same advice---Now that you have had some fun with them, if you plan on actually trying to kill them later, then leave them alone and practice your calling at home.
Even if it doesn't affect them as bad as I believe it does, I see no real purpose in doing it. I want the birds I am hunting to be as unpressured as possible on opening day.
It's illegal to do that in IL a month before the season starts. I can say I've never done that. Practice at home or in your truck.
I have set up on turkeys I didn't intend to hunt in an area with NO turkey season at the time. I was new to turkey hunting and just wanted to check my skills and prowess. A few yrs. later I realized the negative impact it creates. I was on a weekend hunt with a friend new to turkey hunting. He had turkeys on his camp land but they roosted on the neighbors land. The first morning we set up 3 or 4 times but never closed the deal. After that the toms headed back to neighbor's land and wouldn't come back. They'd gobble at our calls all day but wouldn't budge.
My best advice is save it for when you mean it.
northwoodshntr, I'll laugh with you for checking your "skills" on non-hunted turkey. :z-guntootsmiley:
I've done it from a vantage point once birds come off roost to get an idea of where they are headed IF they aren't gobbling on their own.
I've never setup and called birds in. This is where people think birds get "call shy" but in reality get people shy. I had Mr Ray Eye himself explain this to me. Just because a bird comes in to a hen that isn't there doesn't make him unhuntable. How many times do you think a Tom has been "stood up" by real hens? Probably more than you think.
The culprit here is if we call a bird in we end up doing something,unintentionally or not, to spook that bird.thats the reason I don't setup before season and call them in.making them call shy has nothing to do with it , to me anyway
Why?
Illegal in KY as well.
I don't even crow call at them before the season.
I've been known to throw a few notes at them from a distance to get them to gobble. As for setting up to call them in before I want to kill one, nope. If I'm calling at a setup, it's to kill the bird. No sense educating them before that moment arrives. They can be hard enough to kill before the education process begins.
I'm agree with pretty much everybody on here. I don't turkey call at them until season starts and I am trying to call one in to kill it.
I agree never never never call to the birds before season opens..If your calling before season opens it tells me your not a very good turkey hunter..you must be a rookie...
I thought it was illegal in a lot of states as well. I have never even thought of doing this. Turkeys are hard enough to kill, especially in the South; I don't want to educate the birds more than I have to.
Kenny Morgan made this statement once: "It may booger them up worse when they are called to and no hen is there when they come". This from a man who let a trailer truck full of them walk.
I was actually thinking about doing this at a park that there is no hunting. Being fairly new I thought it would be a good way to test skills and calls with no harm. Had no intention of setting up on any. Was just going to take a walk with a call or two and see how it went. Where I was thinking is surrounded by no hunting also. Guess I'll rethink things as it sounds like most are against it. Here I thought I was being resourceful and getting in hunting shape at the same time http://oldgobbler.com/Forum/Smileys/classic/help.gif
VABEARD, if you're new to the sport and you have a battlefield or some type of park where hunting is prohibited, there is no better way to get experience than calling up turkeys. There's no harm or foul when doing it in a situation where there is no chance they will ever be hunted.
Outside of the park or battlefield situation there is no practical value in calling up turkeys before the season.
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on March 16, 2016, 05:28:45 PM
VABEARD, if you're new to the sport and you have a battlefield or some type of park where hunting is prohibited, there is no better way to get experience than calling up turkeys. There's no harm or foul when doing it in a situation where there is no chance they will ever be hunted.
Outside of the park or battlefield situation there is no practical value in calling up turkeys before the season.
Absolutely, have at it. You'll gain some experience at no cost to you or anybody else. :icon_thumright:
In my original post, I was referring to calling in birds before the season in places we, or others are going to be hunting.
Bob
You may want to check with the park to be sure its allowed... It is very uncomfortable to explain yourself to the ranger...
Quote from: Rick Howard on March 16, 2016, 06:01:31 PM
You may want to check with the park to be sure its allowed... It is very uncomfortable to explain yourself to the ranger...
Sounds as if someone is speaking from experience.
Quote from: wvmntnhick on March 16, 2016, 06:34:06 PM
Quote from: Rick Howard on March 16, 2016, 06:01:31 PM
You may want to check with the park to be sure its allowed... It is very uncomfortable to explain yourself to the ranger...
Sounds as if someone is speaking from experience.
Apparently testing my calls on the park turkey was prohibited.
Quote from: Rick Howard on March 16, 2016, 06:01:31 PM
You may want to check with the park to be sure its allowed... It is very uncomfortable to explain yourself to the ranger...
That's something I hadn't thought of, thanks Rick.
Bob
Quote from: OldSchool on March 16, 2016, 07:02:57 PM
Quote from: Rick Howard on March 16, 2016, 06:01:31 PM
You may want to check with the park to be sure its allowed... It is very uncomfortable to explain yourself to the ranger...
That's something I hadn't thought of, thanks Rick.
Bob
Always lookin out for my fellow man.
Its especially bad on public ground becasue why most have common sense their are always the ones that have to see if they can call them in which couple weeks before season right when hens are just starting to get ready to breed and Toms are all heated up you could call them in by truck load and feel like superman then after they come in and find no hen or that a human is there over and over you end up with a bird that sits in one spot and gobbles away but won't move or even sit in tree for hours gobbling at your calls waiting on the hen to come in, remember its not the calls that are the problem turkey sounds are turkey sounds its the finding no hen and human every time they come in and they often close that last distance quiet so people get busted and don't even know it
Quote from: fallhnt on March 16, 2016, 12:59:48 PM
northwoodshntr, I'll laugh with you for checking your "skills" on non-hunted turkey. :z-guntootsmiley:
I can tell you that would be impossible to do here in PA. If a bird gobbles 9 guys hear him.
Call em in...... just because of the controversy :)
I see one of the guys I'm talking about downtown quite a bit and I'm going to suggest that he read this thread. If he does, maybe It'll finally sink in that he's doing himself more harm than good. Not to mention the rest of us.
Bob
Personally I don't call to any birds that I intend to hunt until I am hunting them. The exception is when I am trying to roost one for the next day. When I scout I just cover ground and look for sign. If you find fresh scratching then you have a good start. Gobblers are seldom far from hens in the spring. I feel the less I agitate them the better.
Turkeys call to each-other every day. Hens yelp... Toms gobble. Life happens. Not every time a hen yelps and a gobbler goes to check it out is the hen there. It happens. Coyotes, Bobcats, and other predators are in their world every day and interrupt their life. Somehow they manage to continue working through this, breeding successfully and continuing to communicate. I think the call/decoy shy thing is just an explanation for turkeys being turkeys and not running at the gun of every Hunter that enters the woods. Play this game enough and sometimes it seems like a Coke can with some rocks in it will call in a bird and other times nothing works. Don't over think it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for the lookout and information allhttp://oldgobbler.com/Forum/Smileys/classic/icon_thumright.gif
I checked already and I'm all good with the law... Just taking a few mouth calls, so I'll be on a covert mission (well maybe a pot call too)http://oldgobbler.com/Forum/Smileys/classic/wink.gif
I couldn't agree more about not calling to birds before the season. Nothing worse than trying to call in a bird that has been called to and run off when he shows up and see a person.
The good thing about the marine corps base I hunt is if the game wardens catch you calling to turkeys before the season with any type of turkey call, other than locator calls they will suspend you from hunting.
Calling to them seems harmless. Spooking them is a little different.
I never call before season. Dont want to educate them
I will call to turkeys before the season to get a numbers count of how many birds there are in an area. Im not going to sit down and call one in, that would be crazy. But to assume that a turkey would be boogered up by another turkeys voice is absud...then again, I don't believe in giving animals humanistic traits. They have no idea what you are doing.
2015 Old Gobbler contest Champions
Quote from: Rick Howard on March 16, 2016, 06:01:31 PM
You may want to check with the park to be sure its allowed... It is very uncomfortable to explain yourself to the ranger...
Tell the ranger to piss off. They can follow you around if they want to but there's nothing illegal about calling up turkeys on state or county land that prohibits hunting.
Quote from: fallhnt on March 16, 2016, 12:59:48 PM
northwoodshntr, I'll laugh with you for checking your "skills" on non-hunted turkey. :z-guntootsmiley:
Hey! I had never called in a turkey at that point. Turkeys are turkeys. I also learned the futility of trying to call in field toms. BTW....I laugh at me too. Thanks for WITH me.
I don't
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I think I need to explain something here. I don't think for a second that calling educates turkeys. However human intrusion will cause turkeys to change their patterns and behavior to some extent. Now I have noticed that when I used to call and scout I bumped way more birds than I did when I did not call.
A turkey will react when it is constantly spooked and pushed around. It will at the very least maintain a lower profile than it was if not relocate to a more peaceful area. They are not incredibly bright but they will react to negative experiences when they become somewhat repetitive. Here is something I have noticed but never heard anybody address. You walk a Ridgeline or logging road calling every 2 hundred yards or so. You hear nothing but next thing you know you have walked smack into a Tom and the results are pretty predictable. Now, why didn't that turkey gobble? My thoughts are why would he?
The hen is coming straight at him and all he has to do is watch and wait and he has every advantage. Now I hunt pressured birds and I have noticed unpressured birds don't do this nearly as much but it has happened far to often to me to just be chance.
No. No and no
Just to be clear, I'm not saying that making turkey sounds before season or any other time for that matter, is going to have a negative effect on the birds. Like some of the others have said though, It's the intrusion, bumping birds, actually calling them in and spooking them. Those are the negatives I see in pre season calling. It just seems to me that the guys I know that do it around here aren't helping themselves, or anybody else by doing it. :z-twocents:
Bob
Prove to me that turkeys are incapable of conscience thought; prove to me that there is or is not a God. I tend to believe in God and conscious turkey thought.
I think some people give turkeys a little too much credit, I don't have a strong opinion either way in this argument but some people seem to think these birds are actually outsmarting use. They aren't self evident to the fact that they are being hunted, they aren't waking up on the limb devising plans to outwit those dang hunter again. They wake up and do turkey stuff, if spooked or pressure they react mostly with fleeing or relocating. If a hunter so chooses to locate preseason with a box call I see no real harm, yes setting up and getting busted is a good way to make your birds adjust their patterns just as if they were harassed by a coyote off the roost several times they would probably relocate roosting sites.
I have gone into a no hunting park and played with birds a few times, not really to test my skills but for just for fun and to take some photographs. Gives me something to do before the season opens, the park warden usually just wants to see any shots I took, never asked if it was legal but he doesn't seem to mind.
Big mistake. I think we may be selling turkeys short; they are probably smarter than given credit for.
Turkeys are conditioned to response. You call them in and camo blob moves to scare them and they just got imprinted a little. You do it several times and they can get conditioned to looking for camo blob when/if they come in. I'm of the opinion they can also become conditioned to recognize a hunters calls if he uses the same calls from the same spots, spooks birds often, hunts sloppy. For those who say that is a bunch of bunk, consider this: A turkey is imprinted with it's own mother hens calls before it even leaves the egg.
By the way, wildlife calls are illegal in GSNP.
Straight up imo it's not smart. Every animal is more vulnerable if they don't know they're being hunted.,I believe many guys, at least guys I've known who do it, do it for two reasons. First one is because that's one of the only times they personally can get em to consistently respond (before the pressure is on) or two to booger other spots up. Tell your buddy to go call his own birds over n over. Chances of being caught are decent n birds continually coming to the same type calling w no hens ever there are sure to lose interest.
We've had this discussion many times before. There are two "absolutes" here.
The first is that wild turkeys will "absolutely" become "call shy" (or "human shy",...or whatever name you want to give to it).
The second is that anybody that claims otherwise "absolutely" does not know what they are talking about.
The end.
;D :toothy9: :newmascot: :newmascot: :newmascot: :newmascot: :toothy9: ;D
Quote from: GobbleNut on March 20, 2016, 10:29:23 AM
We've had this discussion many times before. There are two "absolutes" here.
The first is that wild turkeys will "absolutely" become "call shy" (or "human shy",...or whatever name you want to give to it).
The second is that anybody that claims otherwise "absolutely" does not know what they are talking about.
The end.
;D :toothy9: :newmascot: :newmascot: :newmascot: :newmascot: :toothy9: ;D
I realise that your post wasn't intended that way, but I apologise for bringing up a topic that's been discussed at length in the past. I get fired up at times and don't think to search first. ;D Thank you for your input. :icon_thumright:
Bob
No apology is needed, Bob. This is a good topic to be brought up every year,...if for no other reason than to let the newbies know not to go out and call in the birds they (or others) will be hunting.
I have tried and tried to explain, in years past, the science behind the fact that turkeys (as well as all other organisms) are perfectly capable of learned behavior. Yet, there are those folks around that insist otherwise. If they want to decrease their chances of killing gobblers by calling to them before the season, that is their problem. However, they should not misinform others,...and especially the new guys here that are trying to learn how to kill gobblers,...by insinuating that turkeys are not capable or learning to avoid turkey calling they hear in the distance. Turkeys are most certainly capable of that learning.
Question for you guys against it,
What are you really concerned about? Afraid that you may actually have to work a bird that has been pressured? Trying to have a hunt they had 50 yrs ago when you make one series of calls and the turkey cooperates like it did back in the day of the pilgrims?
Those days are past and the turkey is adapting to their surroundings/pressure, you are not. Step up your game and adapt like they did. I am sure it makes for a good excuse when the season ends and you get skunked. "Dad gum guys out calling before season ruined my chances at getting a turkey" LOL, adapt.......
It is only going to get worse....
I am against it for the very reason that I enjoy hearing turkeys gobble. Believe me I hunt and kill plenty of pressured birds. Two weeks of turkey season in the areas I hunt is enough to cause a night and day difference in turkey behavior. Now I am going to kill birds because I am willing to out work 95% of people that hunt around here. But it is nice to stand on a ridge and hear a few birds instead of dead silence. But people are going to do what they are going to do and I say knock yourselves out. I just don't like to hear people cry about how great the birds were acting right before season compared to the middle of season. Don't know how people don't see the answer to that puzzling question since it's right in front of them. And yes birds go thru cycles but Tom's will still gobble all season long if pressure is kept in check. I am beginning to think turkeys are at least smarter than some of the people hunting them.
Quote from: The Woodsman on March 20, 2016, 01:47:19 PM
Question for you guys against it,
What are you really concerned about? Afraid that you may actually have to work a bird that has been pressured? Trying to have a hunt they had 50 yrs ago when you make one series of calls and the turkey cooperates like it did back in the day of the pilgrims?
Those days are past and the turkey is adapting to their surroundings/pressure, you are not. Step up your game and adapt like they did. I am sure it makes for a good excuse when the season ends and you get skunked. "Dad gum guys out calling before season ruined my chances at getting a turkey" LOL, adapt.......
It is only going to get worse....
You assume a lot LOL. You assume that I want to hunt easily killable birds and you couldn't be more wrong. The birds I hunt are pressured almost every day of the season. It makes for a very enjoyable hunt and a sense of accomplishment calling them in close and taking the birds that I choose to shoot.
You assume that I can't, or won't adapt to changing conditions, but again you're wrong. If I didn't, I probably wouldn't be able fill my tags spring and fall each year, but there again, you've assumed that I don't and need an excuse.
If you'll forgive me for doing so, I'll answer your question with another one. What possible good can come from taking birds that are pressured non stop to begin with and start hammering them weeks before season, calling and spooking them repeatedly?
We all have our own opinions and I respect everybody's, whether I agree with them or not. ;) I wish you the best of luck this spring. :icon_thumright:
Bob
Quote from: The Woodsman on March 20, 2016, 01:47:19 PM
Question for you guys against it,
What are you really concerned about? Afraid that you may actually have to work a bird that has been pressured? Trying to have a hunt they had 50 yrs ago when you make one series of calls and the turkey cooperates like it did back in the day of the pilgrims?
Those days are past and the turkey is adapting to their surroundings/pressure, you are not. Step up your game and adapt like they did. I am sure it makes for a good excuse when the season ends and you get skunked. "Dad gum guys out calling before season ruined my chances at getting a turkey" LOL, adapt.......
It is only going to get worse....
^^^ Some states this is illegal and if you practice and scout you know you will call birds in anyway,so why do it?
I do it on other people's land lol