Guys,
I have a Benelli M2 20gauge that I like due to its light weight but really not happy with the pattern ability of the gun itself. I have tried several different chokes in the past and am currently using a Carlson .580 choke. I want to stick with the HW 3" #7's so don't plan to change loads. Is the problem with the gun and its undersized ID of the barrel? I know these barrels have a undersized barrel ID which I don't like and am wondering if this is the issue.
Also, If I wanted to try another gun which ones shoot the best on average? I like the Franchi Affinity and looks like the bore ID is larger more like a typical 20 gauge.
Thank you
I have an M2 as well and i had a Franchi Affinity. The affinity was a bit easier to pattern for me but i like the M2 overall better as a gun. not but much but enough for me to keep the M2. I also think the M2 is one of the most finicky guns to pattern out there as far as 20's go.
what i did find out was the Pure Gold 555 and Sumtoy both patterned good in mine finally using HW7s (around 160 average). I have a buddy that has a 26" m2 (mine is 24") and he gets around the same with a Rob Roberts 570. I shot a lot of choke options and diameters out of mine and thats what did the best. I want to shoot a PureGold 570 to try but can't ever find one used.
I have a few other buddies that all have M2s and they all seem to like different things which makes it that much harder to figure out.
This is what I have seen to also. My buddies M2 has the same issue and even box to box seems to change the patter more (which is somewhat normal) than other guns. I really feel its got something to do with the undersized bore ID. I wonder what genius came up with this idea? I love the gun though other than how it shoots.
Get the Affinity and a Trulock .565 Federal Heavyweight choke and pattern the Fed HW 7's. You will be pleasantly surprised!
Weatherby SA459 is a fine turkey gun at a very reasonable price.
Quote from: SKFOOTER on March 02, 2016, 05:37:38 PM
Get the Affinity and a Trulock .565 Federal Heavyweight choke and pattern the Fed HW 7's. You will be pleasantly surprised!
How do you know it's the Heavy Weight choke? I went to their website and don't see anything on it?
Its cheaper to buy a couple of different chokes and load combos than it is to buy a whole new shotgun. Contact sumtoy, he may be able to help.
Quote from: sawtooth on March 02, 2016, 07:56:28 PM
Quote from: SKFOOTER on March 02, 2016, 05:37:38 PM
Get the Affinity and a Trulock .565 Federal Heavyweight choke and pattern the Fed HW 7's. You will be pleasantly surprised!
How do you know it's the Heavy Weight choke? I went to their website and don't see anything on it?
Search by your gun and it will list all the chokes they make. One of the headings should be called "Trulock Federal Heavyweight #7". The last 3 numbers of the choke are the diameter.
Shooting an Indian Creek in mine with mag blends. Good pattern out to 40 yds.
Quote from: CrustyRusty on March 02, 2016, 07:59:23 PM
Its cheaper to buy a couple of different chokes and load combos than it is to buy a whole new shotgun. Contact sumtoy, he may be able to help.
Actually, i've tried heavi shot and federal heavy weight plus 3-4 different chokes. I'm not saying it can't be done but I've already spent alot of time and money so now its just the principle of things. Of all my turkeys guns I've owned this one is one of the worst and most finicky that I've ever tested. Why in the world does a company manufacture a gun (at the most expensive price available) that doesn't shoot well. I'm kicking myself as I should have researched the Benelli's up front as I would never have gone this route. After reviewing this forums and others its very obvious these guns just don't group well in any of the calibers. Not sure if its the Crio process or the undersized bore ID's (whats up with this?) but something is causing these guns to shot poorly compared to their competition. The funny thing is Franchi is made in the same plant as Benelli but they don't use the Crio process and they do have a normal size bore ID in their barrels. On top of this they apparently shoot better based on reports in these forums. So I guess in this case pay more and get less. LOL
Quote from: g8rvet on March 02, 2016, 08:21:58 PM
Quote from: sawtooth on March 02, 2016, 07:56:28 PM
Quote from: SKFOOTER on March 02, 2016, 05:37:38 PM
Get the Affinity and a Trulock .565 Federal Heavyweight choke and pattern the Fed HW 7's. You will be pleasantly surprised!
How do you know it's the Heavy Weight choke? I went to their website and don't see anything on it?
Search by your gun and it will list all the chokes they make. One of the headings should be called "Trulock Federal Heavyweight #7". The last 3 numbers of the choke are the diameter.
Ok i figured it out. I still didn't see the FH #7 so called the manufacture and they have a issue with their website. The problem is thats its only listed under Beretta so their working to get that issue resolved. Thanks for the info and my order is placed.
It's hard to give advice when you haven't told us what choke and load combos you've tried, what kind of numbers you've gotten, and what kind of numbers you are looking for. The recipe for an M2 20ga is pretty well established, M2 + Sumtoy 562-5 or Indian Creek 555 + 3" Fed HW 7's = 150-170+ at 40yds and very dead turkeys. There are other chokes that will work but I don't recall seeing very many cases where the Sumtoy or IC weren't shooters in an M2.
Quote from: sawtooth on March 03, 2016, 09:38:45 AM
After reviewing this forums and others its very obvious these guns just don't group well in any of the calibers.
I don't know how you possibly could have reached that conclusion if you've actually read these forums.
My first step would be deep clean the barrel. My M2 patterns fall off pretty quickly with just a few shots even pulling a bore snake in between shots mine gets a lot of plastic buildup that doesn't go away with the bore snake and you can't see it until you use a quality bore cleaner and brush.
my 20ga turkey guns are a 870, 1187 and a franchi affinity.
I just picked up the franchi affinity and plan to shoot it this month at the range. I was dead set on a m2, but decided to go with the franchi for a couple reasons. One I found on in bottomland which I love. Two, not much different between the affinity and m2. Three I saved about $600 on a gun that is only for turkeys and maybe a few dove hunts.
My 870 with a ssx and federal hw 7 will push 200. Just wicked tight pattern if not too tight. I let my dad use this gun and he has missed birds inside 20 yards. The gun has a 28" barrel a little long for my liking.
My 1187 with a carlson will put up around 150 with hevi 7. With feds it will put up around 130.
My franchi I will try a carlson and hevi 7 or fed heavy weight and see how it does.
Quote from: alloutdoors on March 03, 2016, 01:07:03 PM
It's hard to give advice when you haven't told us what choke and load combos you've tried, what kind of numbers you've gotten, and what kind of numbers you are looking for. The recipe for an M2 20ga is pretty well established, M2 + Sumtoy 562-5 or Indian Creek 555 + 3" Fed HW 7's = 150-170+ at 40yds and very dead turkeys. There are other chokes that will work but I don't recall seeing very many cases where the Sumtoy or IC weren't shooters in an M2.
Quote from: sawtooth on March 03, 2016, 09:38:45 AM
After reviewing this forums and others its very obvious these guns just don't group well in any of the calibers.
I don't know how you possibly could have reached that conclusion if you've actually read these forums.
I understand and am not saying it won't shoot period but when a gun is this finicky in todays times i'm going to move on. Especially considering the cost of these I find it very interesting that they perform so poorly. I'm fortunate to be able to afford many firearms and thus have shot a good number of turkey guns over the years as I seem to have a fetish for them. But honestly many people like myself have paid way to much for a gun that is overpriced and under performs. Thats all I'm saying. The quality of the firearm is above average no question and my guess is they have a very high margin on this gun due to the Benelli name. So all I'm saying is that the performance level should match the price. I have shot other guns in the past that didn't pattern well or are troublesome but these guns were also very inexpensive and seemed to be more of a lot to lot (quality control) issue than anything else. However, with the new barrel manufacturing techniques guns today shoot very consistent with much less variation. The M2 seems to be consistent as well but consistently bad and very finicky. Anyway, I plan to keep it and will try one of the chokes you mentioned. I like the gun and for dove and quail hunting it should work great. Just disappointed that this gun is so much more difficult than all my other 20 gauges. On the plus side it balances and feels fantastic and I'm hoping my new Franchi will be the same. I'll post back in a week or so once I have a chance to test her out. Thanks for everyones responses.
Overpriced and underperform is in the eyes of the shooter I'd say. IMO what gets lost in this gun is you are judging it based on a very specific turkey load with a known issue of being troublesome to pattern. Not saying the M2 20 is not the issue but if you had the variety of shell options the 12 has this prob is a non issue. Furthermore I doubt benelli build the gun with specially maximizing tight turkey patterns, obviously they built it as an all around gun that will work for all hunting situations which it fact it will. Take an 835 for an example. Its sole purpose is for magnum shells on ducks and turkeys. They don't market for much else then that so that's what it does really well. Try to make it a dove gun and you will find complains.
I'm not defending benelli because others have found ways to produce good results in all areas easier but to me those guns lack other things I actually like on the M2.
Joshua 24:15
"But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord."
Sent from my phone sucka
So you're calling the M2 inconsistent because it doesn't work with whatever random choke you want to put it in it? Yes, the M2 has a specific barrel design and it performs better with certain chokes than others... so what? Pretty much every M2 I've heard of is a good to great performer with either of the chokes I mentioned above, that is consistency. Why should I care about the chokes it doesn't shoot well with when I have chokes available that it shoots fantastic with? I'm also failing to see how it is the guns fault that a particular choke manufactured by a 3rd party doesn't perform well in it. I didn't buy my M2 to shoot it with a different choke for each day of the week. Do you criticize a Corvette because it should only be run on premium gas and claim that a Ford Focus is a superior car because you can fill it with whatever octane you feel like?
Put another way, lets say you have 100 identical shotguns from some other brand and a pile of 25 chokes, you can probably grab any choke out of that pile and find at least a shotgun or two that will perform well with it. Maybe it's five guns that like choke one, one that likes choke two, four that like choke three, etc., etc. It also means that when you walk into a store and buy one of those 100 guns you don't know which of the 25 chokes is going to be your best performer. On the other hand, if you take 100 M2's and 98 of them perform well with the same two or three chokes then which gun is more consistent? Like I said above, the recipe for the M2 is well established, if you decide to substitute a cup of baking soda where you were supposed to use a cup of flour and your bread ends up tasting like garbage that's on you.
Quote from: alloutdoors on March 03, 2016, 07:11:11 PM
So you're calling the M2 inconsistent because it doesn't work with whatever random choke you want to put it in it? Yes, the M2 has a specific barrel design and it performs better with certain chokes than others... so what? Pretty much every M2 I've heard of is a good to great performer with either of the chokes I mentioned above, that is consistency. Why should I care about the chokes it doesn't shoot well with when I have chokes available that it shoots fantastic with? I'm also failing to see how it is the guns fault that a particular choke manufactured by a 3rd party doesn't perform well in it. I didn't buy my M2 to shoot it with a different choke for each day of the week. Do you criticize a Corvette because it should only be run on premium gas and claim that a Ford Focus is a superior car because you can fill it with whatever octane you feel like?
Put another way, lets say you have 100 identical shotguns from some other brand and a pile of 25 chokes, you can probably grab any choke out of that pile and find at least a shotgun or two that will perform well with it. Maybe it's five guns that like choke one, one that likes choke two, four that like choke three, etc., etc. It also means that when you walk into a store and buy one of those 100 guns you don't know which of the 25 chokes is going to be your best performer. On the other hand, if you take 100 M2's and 98 of them perform well with the same two or three chokes then which gun is more consistent? Like I said above, the recipe for the M2 is well established, if you decide to substitute a cup of baking soda where you were supposed to use a cup of flour and your bread ends up tasting like garbage that's on you.
Agreed! Based on this I just ordered the recommended Sumtoy to try out. As a back up I'll still have the Browning Silver 20 and the new Franchi that arrives Monday. Will be fun doing some testing anyways. Thanks for all the info you guys! :you_rock:
(http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff482/Lonster68/Mobile%20Uploads/image_7.jpg)
My Franchi Affinity 20 gauge. I really like this gun.
Lonster
that thing looks sweet.
I like my Beretta 391 but if I had to replace it I'd go with a Franchi Affinity as my first choice and Winchester SX3 as my second choice.
Quote from: alloutdoors on March 03, 2016, 01:07:03 PM
It's hard to give advice when you haven't told us what choke and load combos you've tried, what kind of numbers you've gotten, and what kind of numbers you are looking for. The recipe for an M2 20ga is pretty well established, M2 + Sumtoy 562-5 or Indian Creek 555 + 3" Fed HW 7's = 150-170+ at 40yds and very dead turkeys. There are other chokes that will work but I don't recall seeing very many cases where the Sumtoy or IC weren't shooters in an M2.
Quote from: sawtooth on March 03, 2016, 09:38:45 AM
After reviewing this forums and others its very obvious these guns just don't group well in any of the calibers.
I don't know how you possibly could have reached that conclusion if you've actually read these forums.
Well guys its time for me to set aside my pride and officially apologize. I guess I was cutting short the potential of the M2 as per your post because it shot well with the Sumtoy 562-5. After using 5 or 6 different turkey chokes and near 50-70 test fire shots I finally found a winner. This first shot (clean barrel) was the worst at about 123 hits at 40 yards but the next two were in the 140-150 range which is perfect. The load was the Federal Heavy Weights #7 with 1.5oz of shot. Not to tight but just about right for me. The rest of the pattern was a fairly defined circle which is what I'm after also. Not perfect but pretty darn good. So anyway my apologies as this gun will shoot but as another one posted in this thread they are very finicky for sure. By the way, I also broke in my new Franchi Affinity 20g and it shoots great as well. I like the overall gun a bit less but I think it actually shoots a little better than the Benelli. Not much just a little and seems to be alot less finicky with the type loads you use as well. The one thing I didn't like is that its feels like the distance from your right hand grip to reach the trigger is too far. I'm 6'3 with a little larger hands and the reach for the trigger seems to far and a bit awkward to me. Not bad just not nearly as good as the M2. Overall, the feel of the M2 is better and I like the rear of the forearm where you put your palm while sitting and holding the gun while turkey hunting. The overall quality of the gun is a bit better also. But its not a huge difference and if money is a issue don't hesitate on the Franchi Affinity. Other than the long trigger finger reach this gun is a excellent turkey killer. I'm getting ready to post all the target pictures for these guns and a Mossberg Bantam 500 on the 20gauge pattern picture forum.
Glad you got your M2 shooting. You may notice your numbers creeping up as you shoot the choke more. I ran a box of high brass loads through mine to condition the choke when I first got it before patterning my turkey loads. I also get similar numbers to yours through a clean barrel. For the best results I run a boresnake through my barrel two or three times between shots, my gun does a bit better after the boresnake than just shooting through a dirty barrel.