I've seen a few posts where folks' opinions are that using decoys is cheating. I don't get it. Can someone expound upon that philosophy?
My 2 cents are use what makes you happy. I don't beleive it's right to call someone out for using a legal method. If it makes you happy, use them. If you don't like them, don't use them. As long as its legal, do what makes yu happy. I don't necessarily like using em, but that don't mean I won't. Do what makes ya happy and have fun. That's whats it's about to me
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My opinion on this, and that's all it is, my opinion. Some will agree and some will think its arrogant bs from a crazy ole coot who happens to turkey hunt. But the higher your skill level in turkey hunting the more decoys can hurt you. The lower your skill level the more they can help you. Basically a guy who understands the game and the bird will kill more turkeys without a decoy than he would with. A guy with less understanding and knowledge will kill more with a decoy than without. Take it for what it's worth!
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Quote from: guesswho on March 12, 2015, 01:58:04 PM
My opinion on this, and that's all it is, my opinion. Some will agree and some will think its arrogant bs from a crazy ole coot who happens to turkey hunt. But the higher your skill level in turkey hunting the more decoys can hurt you. The lower your skill level the more they can help you. Basically a guy who understands the game and the bird will kill more turkeys without a decoy than he would with. A guy with less understanding and knowledge will kill more with a decoy than without. Take it for what it's worth!
:z-winnersmiley:
I think a lot of truth in what guesswho just said. I also think it can depend on where and what type of geography you hunt.
I hunt in the Midwest and it's mostly agricultural fields , either soybean stubble or corn stubble fields...some woods and pasture ground too.
If I am hunting a field that has NO COVER...just a corn or soybean field and the birds roost on neighboring ground I can't hunt , I may put a ground blind up and use a decoy. I'd rather hunt the field that way and harvest a tom than not hunt it at all. Hunting ground is not unlimited so I vary my tactics to the situation and terrain.
Decoys can be fun!
Is fun bad now?
Dekes are good for archery, new places, fields, bad weather, etc.
If the state biologists allow it, I'm pretty much for it...
But I do agree that no decoy won't spook a bird for the most part...
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allow me to bring a little gas to this fire.....when a turkey walks toward your decoy, he thinks he is headed to a live bird.....isn't that the same as a turkey call? much the same as duck decoys and calls, deer decoys and calls, predator decoys and calls. just use what works.
i acknowledge there is likely much wisdom in some of the prior responses. But, me and my dad killed a pair of 2-year-olds last year who stomped up to my jake decoy with a plan of kicking his bootay. neither of us had our guns up, so we had to wait until they both turned their backs to raise our guns. having those birds at 20 yards in full strut doing fighting purrs was awesome. so was the brief flopping they did soon thereafter.....call it cheating if you want but i don't care. i'll do it again on Day 1 this year if possible. Good luck to all this year....
It's the same old crap you hear every season from people who are "holier than thou". They are the same ones that tell you that they are a superior turkey hunter because they only kill them if they call them in. Got news for you "holier than thou" bunch...... anyone can call a turkey in on any given day. I've seen a 5 year old kid call in a hot turkey with an old scratch box. It takes a hell of a lot better woodsman and hunter to kill birds that aren't talking than it does to call one in and shoot it.
As far as decoys.... they have their purpose in the woods. I don't carry them a lot until I head out west but I know some guys who put them out every time they go out. To each their own, I just don't like to tote them.
Quote from: guesswho on March 12, 2015, 01:58:04 PM
My opinion on this, and that's all it is, my opinion. Some will agree and some will think its arrogant bs from a crazy ole coot who happens to turkey hunt. But the higher your skill level in turkey hunting the more decoys can hurt you. The lower your skill level the more they can help you. Basically a guy who understands the game and the bird will kill more turkeys without a decoy than he would with. A guy with less understanding and knowledge will kill more with a decoy than without. Take it for what it's worth!
Couldn't have said it better.
Quote from: OldSwamper on March 12, 2015, 02:33:14 PM
allow me to bring a little gas to this fire.....when a turkey walks toward your decoy, he thinks he is headed to a live bird.....isn't that the same as a turkey call? much the same as duck decoys and calls, deer decoys and calls, predator decoys and calls. just use what works.
i acknowledge there is likely much wisdom in some of the prior responses. But, me and my dad killed a pair of 2-year-olds last year who stomped up to my jake decoy with a plan of kicking his bootay. neither of us had our guns up, so we had to wait until they both turned their backs to raise our guns. having those birds at 20 yards in full strut doing fighting purrs was awesome. so was the brief flopping they did soon thereafter.....call it cheating if you want but i don't care. i'll do it again on Day 1 this year if possible. Good luck to all this year....
Difference is your giving him a visual stimulation. His eyes are the hardest to fool. If I hear a girl whistle I'm not going to go look for her. If I see a hot redhead whistle then I'm blowing up in full strut and walking on over :D
If it's legal and you want to do it then do it. Individual choice, no right or wrong. Enough said.
Exactly, we all make our own rules. I know it is against my rules, therefore cheating.
For some people it will be within their rules and that is fine.
To me it comes down to fair play and respect for the bird. Now to some people the way you hunt is more important than the end result. Has to be done fair and square for me.
Quote from: dejake on March 12, 2015, 12:58:01 PM
I've seen a few posts where folks' opinions are that using decoys is cheating. I don't get it. Can someone expound upon that philosophy?
Just reply with, "This guy thinks we're ALL cheaters..."
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Quote from: stinkpickle on March 12, 2015, 03:44:51 PM
Quote from: dejake on March 12, 2015, 12:58:01 PM
I've seen a few posts where folks' opinions are that using decoys is cheating. I don't get it. Can someone expound upon that philosophy?
Just reply with, "This guy thinks we're ALL cheaters..."
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vjk-qBgIo20/URV7js1xbHI/AAAAAAAABD0/5OXIrz_Zsao/s1600/Eanger+Irving+Couse+(American,+1866-1936).jpg)
Deeks aren't cheating. They are another tool in the arsenal even though I rarely use them. :turkey2:
I roosted a bird last year for the opener, he was on the edge of a pipeline in large pines. I had to walk under him very early to get toward the field they had been using. I decided to try out a strutter and stuck it in the pipeline. When it is enough light for him to see it, he flies halfway and then runs all the way to it. He was dead in 30 seconds. I feel like I cheated both him and me. I'm not in it for the kill as much as I am in it for the game. I will not use another one unless it is for a child wanting to hunt.
Quote from: Blong on March 12, 2015, 04:32:12 PM
I roosted a bird last year for the opener, he was on the edge of a pipeline in large pines. I had to walk under him very early to get toward the field they had been using. I decided to try out a strutter and stuck it in the pipeline. When it is enough light for him to see it, he flies halfway and then runs all the way to it. He was dead in 30 seconds. I feel like I cheated both him and me. I'm not in it for the kill as much as I am in it for the game. I will not use another one unless it is for a child wanting to hunt.
Well, you didn't HAVE TO shoot him. ;)
I think a better question should be "if someone likes using a decoy what business of mine is it?" Pretty soon we will be arguing that people who don't call them in with a blade of grass between their thumbs and catch them by hand are cheating. You must "count coup" with the barrel before you shoot lol!!
Is there really a way to cheat at hunting while following all the rules?
don't worry what others think enjoy your hunt let them worry about themselves hunt your way and have fun good luck
There's no rule that says you cant so it is not cheating! Decoys,pop up blinds,shotguns.....what ever you like someone will always have an opposite opinion.....enjoy hunting the way you enjoy it :smiley-patriotic-flagwaver-an
I never use them in the woods. Not for any reason other than I don't really need to use them. I use them every time I set up on a field.
There are enough things that even the old time (not age, but mentality) hunters do that are cheating as well - shotgun instead of flintlock or bow, leafy camo, thermacell, binoculars, GPS, calls they bought instead of made, etc.
I am not saying they are wrong for doing it their way, because for every single one of us, we are hunting for sport, not for support. We all make our own rules within a legal framework to make it more exciting for us, and as we get more accomplished, we often make the rules harder to give ourselves more satisfaction. Killing a deer with a rifle is boring to me. I have killed as many as I want to that way, it was bow or no for me with deer, until I quit deer hunting (got bored with it).
If it is legal and you are not forcing me to do something I do not want to do, have at it. I will support your choice to use decoys and shoot a jake or a bearded hen (if legal) or whatever. It is just plain none of my business.
The only hunter I will take a lecture from is the guy that hunts naked, calls them in with mouth only and catches them with his hands or from a weapon he built on that hunt - cave man style!
I ain't judging anyone - just have fun and be safe everyone.
Decoys are just fine but if you use a blind, well thats cheating......Just kidding
I don't understand why these post are made or why anyone responds to them when you are in the woods its just you the birds and God decoys, blinds, take a shot at 5 yards or 55 what anyone else thinks or says don't mater just be glad you got to spend the day in the woods and when you are leaving thank God you got to be there it could be your last time.
Using a gun is cheating.....
Quote from: stinkpickle on March 12, 2015, 04:35:10 PM
Quote from: Blong on March 12, 2015, 04:32:12 PM
I roosted a bird last year for the opener, he was on the edge of a pipeline in large pines. I had to walk under him very early to get toward the field they had been using. I decided to try out a strutter and stuck it in the pipeline. When it is enough light for him to see it, he flies halfway and then runs all the way to it. He was dead in 30 seconds. I feel like I cheated both him and me. I'm not in it for the kill as much as I am in it for the game. I will not use another one unless it is for a child wanting to hunt.
Well, you didn't HAVE TO shoot him. ;)
Exactly. Hahaha
I know its off topic but I'm thinking the loin cloth and blue moccasins might be a little showy for turkey hunting these days! Hey I'll try anything once though.
It all boils down to my way is better because it's my way.
:deadhorse:
Quote from: dejake on March 12, 2015, 12:58:01 PM
I've seen a few posts where folks' opinions are that using decoys is cheating. I don't get it. Can someone expound upon that philosophy?
The idea is that turkey decoys create an unfair advantage. Get a bird's attention by calling, and then let the decoys do all the work...
Learning to hunt without decoys takes a more skill, woodsman ship, and a better understanding of the turkey.
I grew up duck hunting, and decoys were part of the game. So using decoys to turkey hunt seems natural to me, but I do understand the concept. In duck and goose hunting we are seeing a lot of electronics and mechanical decoys being used. Personally, I do not care for this, and would love to see the use of any electronic decoy or call ended... I have come to live with, and accept the use of mechanical decoys and recorded callers for geese, but I would not be upset if they were restricted... And, I still can and do choose not to use them.
As far as turkey hunting, personally, I feel that decoys are not such an unfair advantage, and generally for them to work the birds have to get somewhat close. The interaction of the birds and the decoys can make things interesting at times, and it can make taking a new hunter much easier. If I am taking someone who is inexperienced, I set up the decoys as to position the birds for a safe and hopefully close shot...
.
I don't look at it at cheating if it's leagal, no diiferent than those using deer decoys, I guess?
I personally would rather have a bird hunt for me, than spot a decoy, and just like the challenge more without dekes.
Buy your tag, go hunting.
Abide the law and do it your way.
That's hunting...
I don't use decoys, seen more bad than good. Just my opinion.
Poison gas was legal in warfare before it was illegal.
I suppose I could buy into the perception of cheating, if the success rate of using a deke was always 100%. But, even then, I wouldn't consider someone a cheater..... Just a different element of hunting.
Quote from: stinkpickle on March 12, 2015, 03:44:51 PM
Quote from: dejake on March 12, 2015, 12:58:01 PM
I've seen a few posts where folks' opinions are that using decoys is cheating. I don't get it. Can someone expound upon that philosophy?
Just reply with, "This guy thinks we're ALL cheaters..."
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vjk-qBgIo20/URV7js1xbHI/AAAAAAAABD0/5OXIrz_Zsao/s1600/Eanger+Irving+Couse+(American,+1866-1936).jpg)
Brilliant!
Decoys are good when someone impaired needs them or a newbie that doesn't know how great a turkeys eyesight is yet.. I will take the thrill of not knowing where he may or may show up rather than pointing my 3.5" 10 ga at a strutter and 2 hens from a pop up blind. I'm not against it, I just wont hunt like that unless taking a child or newbie because it is definitely an advantage. Instant gratification is the way now, no more learning to read sign or scout. Heck lets throw up a pop up blind and a strutter and shoot the crap out of these idiotic toms defending their territory!
Quote from: dejake on March 12, 2015, 12:58:01 PM
I've seen a few posts where folks' opinions are that using decoys is cheating. I don't get it. Can someone expound upon that philosophy?
My answer to your question: If folks' opinions are that using decoys is cheating.....can someone expand on that philosophy? Well, what is it about using decoys that would make it considered cheating? First define cheating. Correct or not, I'll define it here as an activity that is usually (not always) legal, but considered wrong by some set of ethical morals. Next, ask what are decoys and what do they do, on the simplest level? I believe most definitions would be along the lines of 'an imitation of an animal used by a person in some way to attract a live animal.' Now ask: Even though legal, is that wrong? And then next ask..... what is a turkey call? I would probably answer that it 'is a call made by a person that sounds like a turkey, usually used to attract a turkey.' Even though legal, is that wrong?
Now think about that and the similarities/differences. Everyone has a different set of ethics. From my ethical standpoint, they are the same. If another hunters ethics tells them they are different, one is cheating, one is not, well that's okay too. If we were all the same, we'd be like robots.
Quote from: LARRYHAYNES on March 12, 2015, 08:36:12 PM
Quote from: stinkpickle on March 12, 2015, 04:35:10 PM
Quote from: Blong on March 12, 2015, 04:32:12 PM
I roosted a bird last year for the opener, he was on the edge of a pipeline in large pines. I had to walk under him very early to get toward the field they had been using. I decided to try out a strutter and stuck it in the pipeline. When it is enough light for him to see it, he flies halfway and then runs all the way to it. He was dead in 30 seconds. I feel like I cheated both him and me. I'm not in it for the kill as much as I am in it for the game. I will not use another one unless it is for a child wanting to hunt.
Well, you didn't HAVE TO shoot him. ;)
Exactly. Hahaha
I did have to shoot him. If you beat a bird at the game and don't shoot him, you are being untrue to him and yourself. I cant remember if it was Mr Gene or Col. Tom that wrote about calling up a bird while hidden behind some torn down fence and letting him walk and then feeling terrible about it but that is the way I feel also. It is a spiritual thing to me and when he is lying there in a pile of bloody feathers, I have very mixed emotions. Its not uncommon for me to tear up with overwhelming joy,sadness and thankfulness after checkmate. I believe it was Ben Rogers that said something to the extent that if he could breath life in him and hunt him again tomorrow that he would. Im not in it for the kill and eating although they are spectacular, one can dove or squirrel hunt for that. I don't expect everyone to understand but I am willing to bet that the guys that have been after them for many years know exactly what I'm trying to say.
Though I occasionally hunt with decoys while hunting with others who use them, I don't like using them. I won't go as far as saying it's cheating. Do I think it takes much skill to set out a full strut decoy and wait for a gobbler to flog it? No. Do I think many don't learn to hunt, but rely on soley on decoys? Yes. Just my opinion. And the marketing of these full strut decoys, and decoys in general, have really soured me to them. I hate a lot of what the $$hunting$$ industry has done "promoting" products.
I don't agree 100% with the concept that if it's legal, it's acceptable. One such example is mechanical decoys. Mechanical or remote control decoys are cheating in my opinion. There has to be a line drawn somewhere. Many will disagree with me, but we owe turkeys more respect than flipping a switch and having a motorized decoy lead one to you. Turkeys have pea sized brains with no ability to reason, but rather an instinct to survive. Killing just one in this manner is one too many.
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Re: Cheating?
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2015, 08:51:35 PM »
Now we're getting somewhere. I posed this question because on two other threads, folks had stated that using decoys was "cheating" providing an "unfair advantage". How in the world can the concept of fairness enter this equation. We are predators and turkeys are prey. Is it cheating that a cheetah is faster than a gazelle, that a cougar can leap from cover, that wolves kill with numbers? I think not. Man's advantage is his intellect, which is why we're the ultimate predator. Because of our intellect, we can pick and choose what tools we wish to use. As such, some choose to make the game more challenging. And yes, it's a game for the majority of us; we don't NEED to hunt for survival (but that's another topic). So, in this game there is no fairness, there is no cheating, just each man's set of personal rules that gives him the greatest satisfaction. As we advance in our skill, I think most of us try to make things more challenging. As someone stated earlier, I won't kill a deer with a firearm anymore either, just doesn't give me the same satisfaction.
Each man has his own code, and that's fine, but don't label any legal means "cheating" because it's not your preference. To each, his own.
I completely agree with Blong. He DID have to shoot that bird, that is the way the game is played. Once you decide to introduce them into the game, you have to be prepared for what can happen. But, I can only imagine the pain he went thru afterwards, I do not ever want to be in that position.
Now I don't care if you use them or not. But with the decoys available now, it is like having a live bird out there in front of you. To me it is more about how you play the game, not about winning or losing on any given day/hunt.
I still think there is something to be said for the "True Turkey Hunters" who really learn/learned how to hunt these birds they way they were intended to be hunted without taking any shortcuts or disrespecting the bird in any way.
Who determined the "way" they're supposed to be hunted? Why does utilizing that method dictate that they're a "true turkey hunter"?
Hey turkey season is open down South and soon to be open in the North get out and go, enjoy it however you want and hope to see some pics and threads that are about something less controversial in the future. Hunters are always under fire by a lot of groups. Gheeez we are a small group of the overall population so quit bickering among yourselves and simply enjoy it however you choose. :icon_thumright:
To me, personally, using decoys is not cheating,...it is just not as enjoyable as proactively searching for a gobbling turkey and trying to call him in. If someone else thinks its more fun to set out decoys and wait for a gobbler to show up,...more power to you.
It doesn't bother me what anyone else hunts with I just know that I'm not going to carry them. So no, I don't think anyone is cheaters that use them.
Let me add to that. As long as you don't think by me using a gobbler lounger is cheating!
This is how I see it:
We use state of the art compound bows, semi-auto shotguns with scopes, treestands/blinds, scent killing products, calls, cameras, GPS, etc...
If we are not already "cheating", using a decoy(s) is not putting the odds in our favor any more than it already is.
That is all that needs to be said on this topic. This post can end on this comment.
Interesting viewpoint. If the decoy does not help put the odds in your favor, why would anyone bother to use/carry them?
Quote from: Ihuntoldschool on March 13, 2015, 10:33:46 AM
Interesting viewpoint. If the decoy does not help put the odds in your favor, why would anyone bother to use/carry them?
I think what I meant to say was that a decoy does not give anymore advantage than any of the other state of the art equipment that we use.
For example: Take away the shotgun and give a hunter a recurve. Having the best looking decoy in the world is not going to make it any easier on him now that he is using a primitive weapon, which he may not be proficient enough with to be successful.
Quote from: Ihuntoldschool on March 13, 2015, 08:03:37 AM
I completely agree with Blong. He DID have to shoot that bird, that is the way the game is played. Once you decide to introduce them into the game, you have to be prepared for what can happen. But, I can only imagine the pain he went thru afterwards, I do not ever want to be in that position.
Now I don't care if you use them or not. But with the decoys available now, it is like having a live bird out there in front of you. To me it is more about how you play the game, not about winning or losing on any given day/hunt.
I still think there is something to be said for the "True Turkey Hunters" who really learn/learned how to hunt these birds they way they were intended to be hunted without taking any shortcuts or disrespecting the bird in any way.
If any "true" hunter can't figure out how he's going to feel about shooting an animal before pulling the trigger, he has no business pulling the trigger.
:deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:
Quote from: jwhunter on March 13, 2015, 11:35:32 AM
:deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:
HE GONE
its legal to smoke weed in Colorado but it doesn't make it right! .... :popcorn:
I'm just stirring the pot
Quote from: jwhunter on March 13, 2015, 11:40:18 AM
its legal to smoke weed in Colorado but it doesn't make it right! .... :popcorn:
I'm just stirring the pot
If you're stirring it I'm pretty sure you're doing it wrong, ask one of those Colorado boys to help you out.
Perhaps cheating is too strong of a word because of the feelings that the use of the word cheater brings out in the one to whom the finger has been pointed. It is a loaded word. I think that the proper word is "cheapens" as the use of a decoy is designed to remove all wildness from the gobbler so that he runs to the decoy as fast as he can because of the temporary loss of his inate wildness. In effect, he (the gobbler) has been cheapened; he has been temporarily rendered unwild. He is no longer a worthy adversary. Now whether the decoy user has cheapened himself through the use of decoys is a personal question that can only be answered by the individual.
As far as I'm concerned I will continue to legally hunt. I use no decoy in the am, since I usually don't have time to set him up. I will continue to use a decoy in the afternoon, since I set up and call them into me. I will continue shooting a bird that is legal and makes me happy. Jakes are off limits by law, so that rules out jakes. When I deer hunt, I will shoot a deer (legally) if I want him/her. I don't care what anyone thinks about how I hunt. I killed most of my deer this year in unwashed street clothes. Didn't need scent lock, or even Camo. After I kill my first bird this year, I may try the same thing with turkeys.
And through it all, I won't care what any other hunter thinks about how I hunt. Guess what, I once killed a cornered coyote with a stick and big rock. It don't get more primitive than that.
WHEN DID TURKEY HUNTING BECOME ABOUT SOMETHING OTHER THAN KILLING TURKEYS???
If it's legal and it helps you bag your bird then go for it!!
Quote from: turkey buster on March 13, 2015, 01:00:34 PM
WHEN DID TURKEY HUNTING BECOME ABOUT SOMETHING OTHER THAN KILLING TURKEYS???
If it's legal and it helps you bag your bird then go for it!!
I'm not sure how exactly, but I'm gonna blame Obama. ;)
Quote from: turkey buster on March 13, 2015, 01:00:34 PM
WHEN DID TURKEY HUNTING BECOME ABOUT SOMETHING OTHER THAN KILLING TURKEYS???
If it's legal and it helps you bag your bird then go for it!!
Well said.
Camo, chokes, turkey loads, decoys etc.........all cheating? I'm sure the first native to take a turkey with a bow was frowned upon because he didn't use the traditional atlatl. Times change and it's time to move on
If it is legal, go for it.
To me, decoys are in the same category as every other piece of equipment that we use. Yes, they may make it easier for some, but that is probably what makes it enjoyable for some as well.
If I had to use a stick and a rock, or my hands, to kill a deer or a turkey, I would not hunt.
Quote from: turkey buster on March 13, 2015, 01:00:34 PM
WHEN DID TURKEY HUNTING BECOME ABOUT SOMETHING OTHER THAN KILLING TURKEYS???
For me it was the first time I experienced a hunt that required interaction between my Dad, myself and a turkey.
Keep in mind I'm pro decoy. I wish everyone was required to carry and use at least one except me.
Quote from: deerbasshunter3 on March 13, 2015, 01:54:10 PM
If it is legal, go for it.
To me, decoys are in the same category as every other piece of equipment that we use. Yes, they may make it easier for some, but that is probably what makes it enjoyable for some as well.
If I had to use a stick and a rock, or my hands, to kill a deer or a turkey, I would not hunt.
Anytime you can work the word atlatl into a sentence, you have done well! :z-winnersmiley:
I agree with silvestris, cheapens would be the more politically correct term given the strong feelings. I can go with that cheapens instead of cheating.
This debate appears to show a division here between hunting/killing given some of the responses. I guess you have to decide if you are a hunter or a killer.
I like the challenge of calling in a tom to a non- existing hen. In my opinion watching decoys would be boring more likely fall asleep. I would rather cover a lot of ground for a constant change of scenery. But to each thier own type of enjoyment.
:help: :help: :help: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :TrainWreck1:The seasons need to get underway fast :fud:
In the meantime dont use the cheatin 3 1/2" longbeardshells, auto 12 gauge shoootnsticks but keep them goobler loungers for the mid morning naps.
So for the guys saying it's legal can i use a rifle? It's legal here so I'm assuming I would get a congrats if I posted a kill pic with rifle? I would get strung up, clothes ripped off, scrubbed with a wool brush, gas poured on me then set on fire :)
The rifle is a fine turkey gun with the right load and if not used past 40 yards. It is illegal in most states because many chose to ride around in vehicles and pot shoot gobblers strutting in other peoples fields and then go to town to brag about their calling ability.
OMG... This is the reason I avoid so many other forums... smh
Quote from: turkey_slayer on March 13, 2015, 06:50:36 PM
So for the guys saying it's legal can i use a rifle? It's legal here so I'm assuming I would get a congrats if I posted a kill pic with rifle? I would get strung up, clothes ripped off, scrubbed with a wool brush, gas poured on me then set on fire :)
A rifle was the traditional way in America to take turkeys. This calling them in to short range and dispatching them with a scattergun is a fairly recent development in the grand scheme of things. I truly feel sad for those that think they are superior to others because they choose to hunt a certain way. I can assure them they are not. This whole thread has been an exercise in silliness. The use of decoys for game dates back at least several thousand years that we know of. Can't get much more "old school" than that. How do ya think those Native Americans got all of those eagle feathers? Do you think that "cheapened" them? I really don't use turkey decoys but every once in awhile. I don't like carrying one around and I'm afraid I'll get shot at. The few times I did use it the turkeys spooked away from it anyways! But if guys want to use them have at it. Well, I got to go now and get all those duck and goose dekes put in the garbage.
Quote from: turkey_slayer on March 13, 2015, 06:50:36 PM
So for the guys saying it's legal can i use a rifle? It's legal here so I'm assuming I would get a congrats if I posted a kill pic with rifle? I would get strung up, clothes ripped off, scrubbed with a wool brush, gas poured on me then set on fire :)
If its legal that sounds good to me. Just don't shoot anyone or you will get strung up, clothes ripped off, scrubbed with a wool brush, gas poured on you then set on fire :)
Why any hunter would give another grief just because they legally do something different then them blows my mind. Guess its just hard headed people who think its their way or the highway. Probably the same type of people who sit in their trucks on youth day guarding birds in public areas they have hunted their entire lives.
I used to use decoys. I even tried sitting in one of those pop up blinds a time or two. I gravitated away from it because it just didn't fit in with learning to understand turkeys and how to get close by being part of what goes on in the woods. If that is hard to swallow, then at least consider this: You can buy dekes, blinds and time on a bait plot loaded with turkeys. You cannot buy old school on public ground. You have to learn it and earn it by hunting; not shopping. It is a further level of immersion in hunting turkeys.
I don't think it's cheating because for it to be cheating, there'd have to be a direct sense of competition. Watching dekes in a bait plot from a blind isn't even the same sport as using woodsmanship and calls in the woods. Kill 'em however you like, but recognize that your trophy may have no appeal to someone who defines his trophy differently.
Nice post howl. We all have different standards on what is fair play and what is not, and what level of respect we choose to show for the bird. For many of us the hunt is more important than the kill.
Who cares whatever body thinks. If you go through life thinking what somebody else is gonna think well that won't get YA no where. If it's legal do it. We are all human no one is gonna think same way. Hunt the way you want to, CAUSE I DO. ;). Good luck.
I keep one in my backpack. I carry the backpack when I take my kids hunting. On the rare occasion that I get to hunt alone, I put 3 shells in my gun and my favorite slate in my shirt pocket. I too have had people tell me that it was cheating but my response to them is this: Everybody hunts a little bit different and I watched my oldest son shoot his first turkey right off the decoy and just before his 4th birthday. If they are legal, use it if you want. I usually run and gun and hunt the thicker woods so they wouldn't really help much. I try to take my kids to fields or open woods and a decoy does help there. Not to mention it gives the birds something to look at other than my boys who are usually shaking so bad that they can barely breathe!
They can't be cheating because I've been setup on decoys for about an hour and a half and haven't seen a turkey yet.
Quote from: stinkpickle on March 12, 2015, 03:44:51 PM
Quote from: dejake on March 12, 2015, 12:58:01 PM
I've seen a few posts where folks' opinions are that using decoys is cheating. I don't get it. Can someone expound upon that philosophy?
Just reply with, "This guy thinks we're ALL cheaters..."
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vjk-qBgIo20/URV7js1xbHI/AAAAAAAABD0/5OXIrz_Zsao/s1600/Eanger+Irving+Couse+(American,+1866-1936).jpg)
Amen Brotha
I quit using them yrs ago simply because I don't like fooling with them.
Let's see.
1) No decoys for turkey hunting.
2) Sight casting for tarpon with flyrod only. No bait, no blind casting, no spinning reels.
3) Cupped and committed in the decoys only for ducks and geese. Absolutely no passing shots, ever.
4) No live or cut bait for redfish. Lures only - ever.
5) No keeping a legal Speckled Trout over 20" (Gator Trout) - unless it is to win a tournament (evidently, tournament winning fish do not breed).
It must be a terrible burden to be preaching the message to the unwashed masses. The funny thing is, I don't think that the "experts" and the "respect the bird"ers realize that no one really cares what they think. We all do what is within our own ethics first, laws second.
Strictly a personal choice. Personal ethics and preferences often change in many aspects of our lives. I've killed them over decoys, and I've killed them from blinds. I've killed them by ambush, and I've crawled up a ditch kill 'em. I'm at a point in my journey where I really don't care to kill one by any of those methods. I simply don't get the same thing from them, and I'm physically able to take the game to the bird and work him with no visual aids.
Heck, when hunting open areas/fields, it makes things more interesting to figure out where to set up so the bird will be in range before he would expect to see a decoy. Using a low, or high, spot, setting up around a point or simply backing 20 yards into the woods rather than sitting on the field edge adds an element I enjoy. That doesn't make it the only right way to hunt. Just makes it the way I prefer, and my preferences are subject to change as I move on in life.
I will say, you'll become a better turkey hunter quicker if you commit to ditching decoys for a few years. It could mean eating a tag or two, and that might not be an acceptable tradeoff. Strictly a personal choice.
Do duck and goose hunters ever argue about this?
Quote from: Gobble! on April 10, 2015, 05:42:15 PM
Do duck and goose hunters ever argue about this?
No but they do argue why brand x is far more superior to brand y and vice versa.And much worse than turkey hunters do!
Like guesswho summed it up, best response yet!
Quote from: guesswho on March 12, 2015, 01:58:04 PM
My opinion on this, and that's all it is, my opinion. Some will agree and some will think its arrogant bs from a crazy ole coot who happens to turkey hunt. But the higher your skill level in turkey hunting the more decoys can hurt you. The lower your skill level the more they can help you. Basically a guy who understands the game and the bird will kill more turkeys without a decoy than he would with. A guy with less understanding and knowledge will kill more with a decoy than without. Take it for what it's worth!
Quote from: guesswho on March 12, 2015, 01:58:04 PM
My opinion on this, and that's all it is, my opinion. Some will agree and some will think its arrogant bs from a crazy ole coot who happens to turkey hunt. But the higher your skill level in turkey hunting the more decoys can hurt you. The lower your skill level the more they can help you. Basically a guy who understands the game and the bird will kill more turkeys without a decoy than he would with. A guy with less understanding and knowledge will kill more with a decoy than without. Take it for what it's worth!
You must not have ever used a stuffer decoy!
Quote from: Dtrkyman on April 10, 2015, 06:14:33 PM
You must not have ever used a stuffer decoy!
Only on the beach, and they still say "Call me, Call me!
Quote from: Vabirddog on April 10, 2015, 06:23:52 PM
Quote from: Dtrkyman on April 10, 2015, 06:14:33 PM
You must not have ever used a stuffer decoy!
Only on the beach, and they still say "Call me, Call me!
I'll have to try that, never had any luck with a potato.
Wow! We have 6 pages on deeks this time. This may be an OG record :TooFunny:
I see nothing wrong in using decoys. Some of us hunters are of age and can't run and gun like the younger hunters. I see no difference in using decoys for those who don't use decoys and ambushs turkeys in fields etc. Most people who ambush turkeys never call to the birds. So I say each his on and even if you do use decoys you still have to have skills in calling turkeys.
Quote from: dejake on March 12, 2015, 12:58:01 PM
I've seen a few posts where folks' opinions are that using decoys is cheating. I don't get it. Can someone expound upon that philosophy?
I actually feel a decoy handicaps a turkey hunter..never helped me, i quit using them years ago and my success doubled...go figure.
Man this thread must be on life support........
Different sport, same idea. I learned to trout fish with worms and salmon eggs from my dad, uncle, and grandfather. One day a pool full of trout completely ignored our bait. An older gentleman fishing with flies asked if he could give them a try and we said sure. He immediately hooked a nice trout. An epiphany of sorts for me. I learned to fly fish. Over time I realized that most of the time (not all of the time, like after a heavy rain) I could catch more trout with flies than with bait and I learned a lot more about trout and had more fun doing it. But I have great memories of catching trout on worms and salmon eggs and don't regret a minute spent learning to fish that way too.
(http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss114/mpdesja/worms.jpeg)
(From Ed Zern's "To Hell With Fishing")
Quote from: Cutt on April 10, 2015, 06:37:44 PM
Quote from: Vabirddog on April 10, 2015, 06:23:52 PM
Quote from: Dtrkyman on April 10, 2015, 06:14:33 PM
You must not have ever used a stuffer decoy!
Only on the beach, and they still say "Call me, Call me!
I'll have to try that, never had any luck with a potato.
HINT: The potato goes in the FRONT! ;)
Quote from: stinkpickle on March 13, 2015, 01:10:58 PM
Quote from: turkey buster on March 13, 2015, 01:00:34 PM
WHEN DID TURKEY HUNTING BECOME ABOUT SOMETHING OTHER THAN KILLING TURKEYS???
If it's legal and it helps you bag your bird then go for it!!
I'm not sure how exactly, but I'm gonna blame Obama. ;)
THIS! That S.O.B has even ruined turkey hunting now!
It is not cheating if it is legal, just a personal code I believe. I saw the post were the gentleman mentioned Tom Kelly, Ben Lee, and Gene Nunnery. I would be curious how many hunters have read the books written by these men and still use decoys regularly. I have only been hunting for 6 spring seasons and most of you would laugh if I told you how many gobblers I have killed to date. Would I like to have more beards and Spurs hanging on my wall? You betcha but the 4 I have hanging there are special and bring back fond memories every time I walk in my study. My brother has given me two nice decoys for my birthday the past two years. I have not used them except when I take my boys. He is the best turkey hunter I know and has killed several nice gobblers without the use of decoys. He and his hunting partner started using them pretty often a couple seasons ago with great success. I have to admit it is tempting to want to use them when I get multiple pictures of harvested birds. But then I go back and read passages from these books and I am reminded of why I prefer not to. Like I said, nothing against anyone who does as long as it is in a legal manner.
The bird that I killed yesterday, to the best of my knowledge, could not even see the decoy that was out. That is not to say that he didn't see it once he started going where he was going, but I feel like I could have killed him without the decoy. That being said, I will probably be using them in the future to sit on a field at some point. Just like everything else utilized to kill a turkey, it is a matter of preference.
If it's legal and you like doing it WHO CARES what other people think. That's the problem with modern hunting today. Be it deer, turkey, or whatever, a lot of people worry way too much about what everybody is gonna think about the size of the game they shoot, what method they used, what they shot it with......ect. Just go enjoy Gods creation and do what makes you happy
Quote from: Gobble! on April 10, 2015, 05:42:15 PM
Do duck and goose hunters ever argue about this?
Far worse than turkey hunters. Not so much about the use of traditional decoys, but the arguments about spinners have been epic. You can also throw in pass shooting, sky busting, hole claimers, downwinders, topwaters, flooded grain and a litany of others. Turkey hunter arguments are tame by comparison.
HINT: The potato goes in the FRONT! ;)
[/quote]
:TooFunny: :TooFunny:
Quote from: Bill Cooksey on April 13, 2015, 10:06:53 AM
Quote from: Gobble! on April 10, 2015, 05:42:15 PM
Do duck and goose hunters ever argue about this?
Far worse than turkey hunters. Not so much about the use of traditional decoys, but the arguments about spinners have been epic. You can also throw in pass shooting, sky busting, hole claimers, downwinders, topwaters, flooded grain and a litany of others. Turkey hunter arguments are tame by comparison.
hardcore duck and goose hunter here. What is a topwater? Never heard that expression hunting in FL, MS, MO and Canada. Just curious.
The other one that brings a good argument is limit sharers.
Quote from: g8rvet on April 13, 2015, 01:12:49 PM
Quote from: Bill Cooksey on April 13, 2015, 10:06:53 AM
Quote from: Gobble! on April 10, 2015, 05:42:15 PM
Do duck and goose hunters ever argue about this?
Far worse than turkey hunters. Not so much about the use of traditional decoys, but the arguments about spinners have been epic. You can also throw in pass shooting, sky busting, hole claimers, downwinders, topwaters, flooded grain and a litany of others. Turkey hunter arguments are tame by comparison.
hardcore duck and goose hunter here. What is a topwater? Never heard that expression hunting in FL, MS, MO and Canada. Just curious.
The other one that brings a good argument is limit sharers.
"Topwater" is a term for new/clueless hunters who screw things up for everyone else without realizing it. There are a variety of terms used for this type of person.
By "limit sharers" are you talking about party shooters?
Go get your decoy and work some birds man. Cotton picking ridiculous with this immoral/moral arguments over decoys. When you lay one down with them you will get congrats. Without it you will get congrats. There is nothing immoral about it. You are hunting and doing what you can. You sure can learn alot about a bird watching him and/or hens react to decoys. The same is said for when you don't use it. if you feel like toting it, then tote it. If not, then don't. No way that it is cheating to go with or without it. Go knock some heads brother and post some pics.
Quote from: Bill Cooksey on April 16, 2015, 03:52:12 PM
Quote from: g8rvet on April 13, 2015, 01:12:49 PM
Quote from: Bill Cooksey on April 13, 2015, 10:06:53 AM
Quote from: Gobble! on April 10, 2015, 05:42:15 PM
Do duck and goose hunters ever argue about this?
Far worse than turkey hunters. Not so much about the use of traditional decoys, but the arguments about spinners have been epic. You can also throw in pass shooting, sky busting, hole claimers, downwinders, topwaters, flooded grain and a litany of others. Turkey hunter arguments are tame by comparison.
hardcore duck and goose hunter here. What is a topwater? Never heard that expression hunting in FL, MS, MO and Canada. Just curious.
The other one that brings a good argument is limit sharers.
"Topwater" is a term for new/clueless hunters who screw things up for everyone else without realizing it. There are a variety of terms used for this type of person.
By "limit sharers" are you talking about party shooters?
Kinda. I take party shooters to mean that no one is really sure who has killed what. Most times when laying in a layout blind and everyone trying to pick out Greenheads, a single drake will get shot more than once by a couple of shooters. There is no way to know who killed what and we do our best at calling it someone's bird. A limit sharer to me is someone that knows dang good and well they have shot their limit, but "help" their buddy shoot his limit. One may be technically illegal if someone were to figure out who's shot it is, but no ill is intended. The other knows exactly what they are doing.
We call "topwaters" "Duck Commanders"-especially if they are face painters. It is best when they give their group a name - like Duck Stackers or such. If they make bumper stickers, even better.
If you're following the laws, being safe and having fun, who cares what anyone thinks about "cheating". Turkey hunting isn't a contest to me. It's an addiction.
Sent from the talk of tap
to me cheating is a term used to describe a way to get around the law. If its legal to use decoys in your area then in now way can that be termed cheating.If its illegal to use a rifle and you pot shoot a gobbler out of your truck with that .22 u keep under the seat THATS cheating. Here in NY you cannot use bait anytime during the year during season or off. If u setup a blind in front of a big pile of corn youve been planting there for weeks than THATS cheating.Some people are making it seem like you throw a few plastic turkeys in a field and the toms come running...Not in my neck of the woods..actually most of the time I've hunted with decoys the birds get real skittish and hang up at the edge of the field. Its easier to call in a bird without one in my opinion.
I have tried them in the past, and killed some birds with them. To me it's just like most other things in hunting, a progression. When I was younger I was blood thirsty and it was more about the numbers than the quality of the hunt. I'm not that old, but things have changed for
me. I don't carry decoys anymore because that's just my preference and style. I get satisfaction with just my calls and my gun. However, as long as it's legal I won't belittle anybody for hunting how they want. Just because it's my way doesn't mean it's got to be everybody's way. Hunt and enjoy it your way, that's what it's all about. Now this is a whole nother topic, but roost shooting is legal in some states. That is totally CHEATING in my book and a person ought to be ashamed for doing it legal or not.
Decoys are visual lures. Calls are auditory lures. Seems as though some "purists" believe one is ok and the other is not.
How many of the hutters on this forum have taken a bird on just dumb luck? Are we now going to argue that a bird taken that way is cheap or doesn't count?
You hunt 'em your way; I hunt 'em mine. As long we are both legal, let's agree to disagree.
I'd be willing to bet that most of the hunters who are against using decoys don't hunt a lot in open ground. A lot of us hunt farm ground in the midwest where there are small patches of timber surrounded by huge ag fields and pastures. Those toms can see for a long ways in open ground, and if they don't see the hen that's supposed to be making that sound, then they often won't commit within range.
I've read some blogs that some guys consider it cheating if you hunt over a food plot!.
WHAT!..you mean you dont just walk around and cold call up a gobbler in the woods? really..
I think this all gets a little out of hand..If your legal and you kill a bird congrats!..more power to you I say!
8 pages, I love it!!! :popcorn: ;D
Most of you who know me know that I support anything that is legal in your state. If it's legal, and it makes you happy, go for it!! :icon_thumright:
I use dekes. Not all the time. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't, and yes, sometimes they hurt you!! That's part of the game.
I've killed turks over dekes, and without dekes. I've called them in, I've ambushed them, I've snuck up on them, you name it, I've killed turkeys that way. I'm proud of all of them.
Not everyone has the same opportunities as others!! If I had several awesome places to hunt, loaded with gobbling birds, I'd try to challenge myself by upping my game. But I don't, so I use every tool in my bag, including dekes. If you don't like the method I employ, I don't care!! ;D
I fault no one for the legal methods they employ. Kumbaya!! ;) :funnyturkey:
Preach it Brotha!
Quote from: RutnNStrutn on April 20, 2015, 07:18:54 PM
8 pages, I love it!!! :popcorn: ;D
Most of you who know me know that I support anything that is legal in your state. If it's legal, and it makes you happy, go for it!! :icon_thumright:
I use dekes. Not all the time. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't, and yes, sometimes they hurt you!! That's part of the game.
I've killed turks over dekes, and without dekes. I've called them in, I've ambushed them, I've snuck up on them, you name it, I've killed turkeys that way. I'm proud of all of them.
Not everyone has the same opportunities as others!! If I had several awesome places to hunt, loaded with gobbling birds, I'd try to challenge myself by upping my game. But I don't, so I use every tool in my bag, including dekes. If you don't like the method I employ, I don't care!! ;D
I fault no one for the legal methods they employ. Kumbaya!! ;) :funnyturkey: