Anyone have any tips on achieving the front end of the yelp on a mouth call. Or some people say finding the sweet spot?? Thanks
This helped me a lot. For my money nobody sounds better on a mouth call.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkKR3eYnBd4
That's a good video and I'll add that you have to find a call that is capable of producing that clear whine/whistle before you can really achieve a distinct two note yelp. I'm not a pro but, in my experience, not every call is going to give you that clear front note. Also, the back end of the yelp is just as important as the front end. You have to drop your jaw with each note to get the rollover, which is what completes the two note yelp.
Quote from: JBIRD22 on February 18, 2015, 03:07:41 PM
That's a good video and I'll add that you have to find a call that is capable of producing that clear whine/whistle before you can really achieve a distinct two note yelp. I'm not a pro but, in my experience, not every call is going to give you that clear front note. Also, the back end of the yelp is just as important as the front end. You have to drop your jaw with each note to get the rollover, which is what completes the two note yelp.
JBIRD22 knows what he's talking about, and he helped me some with my yelping last year! I just exchanged a LONG email with my turkey hunting mentor where we talked about this VERY thing, and ... we made a distinction between "competition" calling vs. "field" calling... He's hunted turkeys for over 40 years and has heard plenty of real hens that sounded HORRIBLE -- NO front-end to their yelp, at all... Although I'd love to mature into a beautiful competition caller one day (maybe), I believe "field grade calling" is good enough to bag plenty of birds.
Having said all this, here's my video tut on yelping; I start with the squeal/whine, and then proceed to the back end note: http://youtu.be/IWiwAglZY9U ... This may not win you many competitions, but in my experience, it'll dang sure make one gobble.
BGD
Thanks BGD!
BABS9, here's a quick sound file I made. I hope it helps!
https://soundcloud.com/jbird_22/two-note-yelp-of-a-hen-turkey
DISCLAIMER..I had to record it inside due to cold, windy conditions so you may want to be ready to turn the volume down. lol
Quote from: JBIRD22 on February 18, 2015, 05:09:19 PM
Thanks BGD!
BABS9, here's a quick sound file I made. I hope it helps!
https://soundcloud.com/jbird_22/two-note-yelp-of-a-hen-turkey
DISCLAIMER..I had to record it inside due to cold, windy conditions so you may want to be ready to turn the volume down. lol
You're welcome, bud -- hey, is this the sound file you sent me last year, or a new one??
New one, just recorded it earlier today.
Thanks guys appreciate the replies and the help!!
Quote from: JBIRD22 on February 18, 2015, 05:40:10 PM
New one, just recorded it earlier today.
Dude, THAT was one of THE BEST descriptions of how to produce a yelp I have ever heard!!! Good job, man! Back to the woodshed for practicing for me!! haha
BGD
:icon_thumright: Also Shane Simpson gives an good explanation as well. Youtube Mouth Call Mechanics.
Quote from: bamagtrdude on February 18, 2015, 03:42:49 PM
Quote from: JBIRD22 on February 18, 2015, 03:07:41 PM
That's a good video and I'll add that you have to find a call that is capable of producing that clear whine/whistle before you can really achieve a distinct two note yelp. I'm not a pro but, in my experience, not every call is going to give you that clear front note. Also, the back end of the yelp is just as important as the front end. You have to drop your jaw with each note to get the rollover, which is what completes the two note yelp.
JBIRD22 knows what he's talking about, and he helped me some with my yelping last year! I just exchanged a LONG email with my turkey hunting mentor where we talked about this VERY thing, and ... we made a distinction between "competition" calling vs. "field" calling... He's hunted turkeys for over 40 years and has heard plenty of real hens that sounded HORRIBLE -- NO front-end to their yelp, at all... Although I'd love to mature into a beautiful competition caller one day (maybe), I believe "field grade calling" is good enough to bag plenty of birds.
Having said all this, here's my video tut on yelping; I start with the squeal/whine, and then proceed to the back end note: http://youtu.be/IWiwAglZY9U ... This may not win you many competitions, but in my experience, it'll dang sure make one gobble.
BGD
Not questioning you, just trying to learn. Are you saying that a newbie to mouth calls can call in a turkey with mediocre clucks and other calls? I have tried three different mouth calls and they all sound raspy. To be honest, to me they sound like ducks or hounds. It is hard to believe that it would bring in a turkey, but I guess no two turkeys sound exactly alike. Again, not questioning you, just trying to wrap my head around mouth calls, because I can't figure out a basic yelp or cluck to save my life.
Quote from: deerbasshunter3 on February 18, 2015, 08:47:50 PM
Not questioning you, just trying to learn. Are you saying that a newbie to mouth calls can call in a turkey with mediocre clucks and other calls? I have tried three different mouth calls and they all sound raspy. To be honest, to me they sound like ducks or hounds. It is hard to believe that it would bring in a turkey, but I guess no two turkeys sound exactly alike. Again, not questioning you, just trying to wrap my head around mouth calls, because I can't figure out a basic yelp or cluck to save my life.
:z-winnersmiley: Yep, that's EXACTLY what I'm saying... All you have to do is a quick search around YouTube, watch several "home-made" videos, and you'll hear crappy calling luring in gobblers all day long... You DO NOT have to be a competition caller to kill a turkey -- PERIOD! *BUT* I will say this -- and here's the important part -- *IF* you intend to call in a very woods-wise bird, THEN I do believe with gusto that your calling better be pretty darn good...
SO given that, you ought to spend a bazillion hours with JBIRD22's SoundCloud tutorial until you grasp what he's teaching; that way, your calling is good enough to bag the easy AND the tough birds.
BGD
The first few years I called for myself I didn't sound very good at all. My yelps were one note, my clucks were inconsistent at best, my cutting was all over the place, and I had no clue how to purr but I still somehow managed to kill birds. You do need to get the cadence/rhythm correct but the notes themselves don't have to be perfect. Also, you don't want to repeat the same sequences of calls over and over again. I was guilty of that as well. Keep in mind, learning how to run a mouth call takes LOTS of practice.
Here's a great video by Shane Simpson that Cohutta Stutter mentioned earlier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uPXoGEZeYg
Quote from: JBIRD22 on February 18, 2015, 09:24:22 PM
.... [snip] *** managed to kill birds. You do need to get the cadence/rhythm correct but the notes themselves don't have to be perfect. Also, you don't want to repeat the same sequences of calls over and over again. I was guilty of that as well.... [snip]
*BOOM* There's the secret right there. Cadence & rhythm CORRECT = killing birds. Notes CORRECT = win calling competitions.
:)
I agree completely for normal private land turkeys. Step onto hard hunted public land and good calling makes all the difference. Apparently listening to a few hundred bad callers and a few loads of #6's wizzing overhead can make a gobbler a little more picky. :toothy12:
Thats exactly the problem here in Western New York where I hunt. You have alot of guys that really just have no idea what they are doing when hunting turkeys. They just tear through the woods crankin their calls. Doesn't take long for them birds to smartin up.
I am nowhere near competition but I will share this little bit of advice. It took me forever to learn how to be decent (as in sound anything like a turkey) on a mouth call and my biggest problem was finding the best position in the top of my mouth. Play around with the call, move it forward and back on the roof of your mouth and you will find that it makes a difference. Hope this helps.
Quote from: deerbasshunter3 on February 18, 2015, 08:47:50 PM
Not questioning you, just trying to learn. Are you saying that a newbie to mouth calls can call in a turkey with mediocre clucks and other calls? I have tried three different mouth calls and they all sound raspy. To be honest, to me they sound like ducks or hounds. It is hard to believe that it would bring in a turkey, but I guess no two turkeys sound exactly alike. Again, not questioning you, just trying to wrap my head around mouth calls, because I can't figure out a basic yelp or cluck to save my life.
You do have to make the basic sounds of a turkey... If your call sounds like a turkey to some degree, chances are there is a bird out there that will come in to it... If you sound like a cat in heat, it is unlikely that you will have much success... If you can create the back end of a yelp, birds will respond (as is proven every year by the vast majority of hunters who take birds in the field).
The year before last, I was hunting, and heard this guy walking around yelping and cuttin', and he sounded horrible... He had three birds fired up, and just kept walkin' around. I could not understand how he could be walking around like that not scaring birds, and I was surprised the birds were so fired up over such poor calling... As it turns out, this guy was a hen turkey.
I have been struggling with the 2-note yelps, and this has been a great thread to help me out... The front end is certainly the challenging part of yelp... Funny thing is, the yelp is the most basic of calls, and the easiest call to do on most friction calls, but by far the most difficult call to do correctly on a diaphragm. I can purr, cluck, and cutt reasonably well on a diaphragm, but that 2-note yelp has been a challenge... And before reading a thread on this forum last year, I had no idea I was doing it incorrectly, and neither did a few of the birds I have killed over the past few years.
Quote from: Marc on February 20, 2015, 01:50:43 AM
[snip] ... And before reading a thread on this forum last year, I had no idea I was doing it incorrectly, and neither did a few of the birds I have killed over the past few years.
:icon_thumright: I didn't have forums during the majority of all the years I've been killing birds, telling me what I was "doing incorrectly", related to my calling. Heck, gobblers are gobbling to what I'm giving them, they're coming to my calling, and I'm killing them -- I thought that was the name of the game??
Here's the "GUY" I'm in competition with: http://youtu.be/eGkuGbYfjts ... sounds like the competition callers, don't it?? ha
I *loved* your story about the "guy" walking around, calling, sounding like crap and it turned out BEING A HEN!! Most hens that I PERSONALLY HAVE EVER ENCOUNTERED would lose their *sses at the NWTF calling contest they just hosted up in Nashville ... last week, was it? And I will add this -- again I stand FIRMLY behind this statement -- it's the BOSS HENS that most times (in my experiences, throughout the years), that DO NOT have that pristine 2-note yelp and sound like JUNK -- and guess which bird in the field gets the boys totally fired up??
:z-winnersmiley: The boss hen... SO, if your goal is to kill gobblers, you have a decision to make (in my mind) -- work on "competition calling" or work on boss hen calling. I would *love* to sound "correct" and "perfect" with my calling, but I'm telling you, I'd rather sound like that stinkin' ole boss hen 7 days a week, 'cause around these parts where I'm hunting, it brings in the gobblers to the end of my barrel. And it works on PUBLIC & PRIVATE LAND, at least all the public & private land I've ever stepped on in Alabama & Mississippi & Texas so far; now, I might go out west further & have my hat handed to me; remains to be seen. But 90-100% of my hunting is here in Alabama, and ... my sloppy, non-precision, weak-butt 2-note yelp on my mouth call brings 'em in. If I desire to sound "competition", I guess I'm happy to let my slate and/or box serve that purpose in the woods.
As they say, YMMV (your mileage may vary). To JBIRD22's point, too, it's my personal belief that rhythm, cadence, pitch variations & turkey hen "inflections" in your calling are WAY more important than the auction call itself; if you can get the "nuance" of how a hen talks right, no matter how GOOD your "calling" sounds, you're way ahead of the game.
Again, I'm not bashing the competition callers AT ALL; I personally *LOVE* Billy Yargus' calling (over most of the other guys I've heard), and I've seen him in videos, in action, in the field and his calling draws 'em in........... and so does mine... :)
BGD
PS As a bonus for reading my diatribe, here's an MP3 you can put on your mobile device to "challenge" yourself with of that hen earlier yelping, cutting, clucking & purring: https://www.dropbox.com/s/e7ejkz24j56ks58/Excited%20Hen%20Yelping%20Cutting%20Clucking%20Purring.mp3?dl=0 ... it's yours, for free...
I'm the same way BGD, I wish I would've had forums to go to ask questions. But then again now I understand and respect the hunters before me that I knew. I catch myself also being tight lipped now. Because the reason I fell in love with turkey hunting was the trial and error. Looking forward to getting up the next morning to try something new that I thought up by myself. Because as many know, for the most part the old turkey hunters don't tell ya nothing. You've got to learn it on your own. But that was the best thing they ever done for me. Since then from my first turkey hunt witch my uncle took me on around 25 years ago. It took me about 6 years to get my first bird. Most of the time I only got to hunt with him 1 time a year. So I had very limited time with what I didn't know then was one of the best turkey hunters in this part of the country. That everyone always asking me what he done that made him so successful. That he sure could call a bird in. It's funny because I don't tell them nothing about it but that he used an old scratch box. That's the only call he used when I was with him. But I always just leave it as, I don't really remember his calling very much. I guess most folks from around here that consistently take birds for rides in the back of there trucks think of it like its some kind of secret brotherhood. They just will not talk about it.
But you do a good job spreading your knowledge. I'm sure it helps a bunch of folks new and season hunters.
I forgot to add that all my hunting until the age of about 20 was done on public land. It really use to frustrate me when I would be working a bird and hear a gun shot within 75-100 yards in front of me. That really taught me a lot. It taught me that the more you called and the bird gobbled was just advertising to other hunters where he was and they could just slip in between you and the bird. It teaches you.
Eric, that's right; back "in the day", man ... patterning, calling, setup, scouting, etc... If you didn't have somebody showing you the ropes (which, Thank The Lord!, I *did*), then ... man, it was really tough sledding... and yes, on public land, you have to do things a tad bit different, esp if you cannot hunt during the weekdays... I did "train" a guy last year that hunted public land on the weekdays & he did good...
BGD
Quote from: warrent423 on February 20, 2015, 05:07:24 PM
Before I would worry about the perfect two note yelp, I would master the simple "bubble" cluck. Having chosen to strictly hunt well educated, public land gobblers all my life, I have found the simple cluck, followed by some scratching in the leaves, to be the two most deadly sounds I could ever possibly make ;)
I agree. People talk endlessly about the two-note yelp when in reality, real turkeys are all over the place with their yelping. For every classic two-note yelp you will hear in the woods, you will hear a dozen turkeys that sound completely differently.
Not the case with clucking,...or more descriptively, the "bubble cluck". It is a sound that turkeys use for close-in conversation, and it almost never varies in the way it sounds. Not only that, but it is just as difficult to make with realism as the two-note yelp,...and is really a more important call for bringing a gobbler in those last few yards. Yet, we spend very little time discussing it.
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 20, 2015, 06:44:17 PM
Not the case with clucking,...or more descriptively, the "bubble cluck". It is a sound that turkeys use for close-in conversation, and it almost never varies in the way it sounds. Not only that, but it is just as difficult to make with realism as the two-note yelp,...and is really a more important call for bringing a gobbler in those last few yards. Yet, we spend very little time discussing it.
G-nut, wanna post up a sound file or YouTube demonstrating this for us? I agree, re: too much emphasis on the 2-note yelp (of course). But, "bubble cluck" is a ... new phrase for me, until I hear the call you're referring to.
Let us know!
BGD
I think he is referring to that very subtle cluck you hear when there feeding or just content.
Quote from: bamagtrdude on February 20, 2015, 07:12:51 PM
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 20, 2015, 06:44:17 PM
Not the case with clucking,...or more descriptively, the "bubble cluck". It is a sound that turkeys use for close-in conversation, and it almost never varies in the way it sounds. Not only that, but it is just as difficult to make with realism as the two-note yelp,...and is really a more important call for bringing a gobbler in those last few yards. Yet, we spend very little time discussing it.
G-nut, wanna post up a sound file or YouTube demonstrating this for us? I agree, re: too much emphasis on the 2-note yelp (of course). But, "bubble cluck" is a ... new phrase for me, until I hear the call you're referring to.
Let us know!
BGD
BGD, although this is mostly a tree yelp/flydown sound file but there are a few bubble clucks mixed in. I've found that ghost cuts and batwings are pretty easy to get these soft, yet popping clucks.
https://soundcloud.com/jbird_22/hooks-3-reed-v-modified
Quote from: JBIRD22 on February 20, 2015, 08:42:46 PM
Quote from: bamagtrdude on February 20, 2015, 07:12:51 PM
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 20, 2015, 06:44:17 PM
Not the case with clucking,...or more descriptively, the "bubble cluck". It is a sound that turkeys use for close-in conversation, and it almost never varies in the way it sounds. Not only that, but it is just as difficult to make with realism as the two-note yelp,...and is really a more important call for bringing a gobbler in those last few yards. Yet, we spend very little time discussing it.
G-nut, wanna post up a sound file or YouTube demonstrating this for us? I agree, re: too much emphasis on the 2-note yelp (of course). But, "bubble cluck" is a ... new phrase for me, until I hear the call you're referring to.
Let us know!
BGD
BGD, although this is mostly a tree yelp/flydown sound file but there are a few bubble clucks mixed in. I've found that ghost cuts and batwings are pretty easy to get these soft, yet popping clucks.
https://soundcloud.com/jbird_22/hooks-3-reed-v-modified
Perfect examples of what we're talking about, jbird. Those individual little popping clucks are unique in the turkey vocabulary, and are difficult for most mouth call users to duplicate effectively.
I think I have witnessed more gobbler's lives being saved in the final few steps before reaching shotgun range by a caller's (me included, at times, depending on my state of nervousness ;D) inability to replicate a good "bubble cluck". Gobbler's will often start doing that when they reach a point where they think they should be able to see the hen they hear calling,...and they expect to hear it given back to them.
In reality, that form of bubble, or popping, cluck is the first stage of concern a turkey has that something might be amiss. They start doing it when they are mildly concerned, and they expect a response to it,...and from my experience, that response has to be a pretty good imitation of that sound. A poor imitation will often hasten a gobbler's anxiety and his "bubble clucking" will escalate into a more concerned state of "putting", which in turn will generally cause him to begin to depart rather continuing to approach the call.
On the other hand, I have seen many turkeys settle down and continue to approach the call when the hunter calling could do a realistic imitation of that hollow, popping, "bubble" clucking sound. To me, it is more important than the classic "two note yelp" in turkey hunting.
Jason, your calling is superb, man!!
G-nut, YES, I know this vocalization; had never heard it referred to as a "bubble cluck", but YES, the little "poppy" high pitched sounds are very hard to do on a mouth call, agree with you there!! I do execute this call A LOT; just had never heard it called the "bubble cluck"... And I 100% agree with you, these types of "down to the wire" calls are crucial -- crucial... I had a hunt one time where I lightly yelped & clucked/bubble clucked to a gobbler for well over 2-3 hours; I caught him tied up with a bunch of hens, strutting in the middle of one of our pastures; managed to slip into a pine tree setup, and I called to him FOREVER before finally his hens got curious about me, and drug him into gun range... STRESSFUL and my mouth was near 'bout cardboard, it was so dry!!! hahaha
Man, this thread is really gettin' good now... A turkey hunting "mentor/friend" of mine & I are talking about those little calls that can pull in a hung up gobbler -- or, like you guys are saying, re-assure him that WE are the real thing... Will Primos has a vocalization that is what he calls the "waverly call"; I've heard him do it, it's kind of a whistling little noise that varies in pitch... I've also incorporate a little bit more kee-kee stuff into my call (for birds around my property, it really seems to work good), which seems to be giving me an edge from time to time... My mentor has a call that he calls the "what what"; he said he learned it by watching some wild turkeys he had raised do it and the gobblers *LOVED* it...
Contentment and "re-assurance" calls are *HUGE*, esp in pulling in that bird that's either hung up or getting very close & just needs that extra little "I'm real, come on to me" call to lure him on into gun range... I agree with you guy, we ought to be talking about executing THOSE calls a whole lot more rather than criticizing the yelp.
BGD
BGD are you referring to a feeding call or whine? Ive been currently trying to practice and get that down. I've got it down pretty good. Its a little more mellow or hollow than a kee kee. Its those little extra things in my opinion like a bubble cluck,whine, or kee kees that set you apart from alot of other hunters out there. Give that bird a little more confidence that you are the real thing.
Quote from: BABS9 on February 21, 2015, 10:01:04 AM
BGD are you referring to a feeding call or whine? Ive been currently trying to practice and get that down. I've got it down pretty good. Its a little more mellow or hollow than a kee kee. Its those little extra things in my opinion like a bubble cluck,whine, or kee kees that set you apart from alot of other hunters out there. Give that bird a little more confidence that you are the real thing.
Which call? Will Primos' "waverly" call? His is more like a whine that varies up & down in pitch.
The other calls I referenced are "contentment" feeding calls, more than likely; just the little noises hens make as they're feeding along in a pasture or the woods... Nothing super-loud here, obviously; just little, quiet stuff, which a lot of times they'll make up in the trees, on the roost, as well... The "what what" call that my turkey hunting mentor was talking about he observed in the hens he raised is ... kinda like a 1-note very quick yelp... Or, if it's a 2-note yelp, the whistle/high part is NOT scream-y at all; very mellow calls we're talking about here...
BGD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKOdTw_VnVk
Kind of like what he is talking about here
Quote from: BABS9 on February 21, 2015, 04:01:35 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKOdTw_VnVk
Kind of like what he is talking about here
Yep, that's it!
BGD
I learned something today... Thanx GobbleNut & JBIRD22.
Any advice on how to accomplish or create this call on a diaphragm???
I cut WAY down on the air and mostly use my lips to make the cluck. Like GobbleNut said, the last thing you want to do is alarm putt.
Quote from: JBIRD22 on February 22, 2015, 12:43:23 AM
I cut WAY down on the air and mostly use my lips to make the cluck. Like GobbleNut said, the last thing you want to do is alarm putt.
Licking your lips some to wet them and, like Jason said, using your lips to make this little "bubble cluck" POP at a high pitch (honestly, that's a new term on me, but hey, it makes sense) is the trick...
BGD