I have 11 Hevi 13 #7's (12 ga.) left and then I'm going to Longbeard #6's. Most of the Hevi's have lost the buffering, so depending on how those pattern, maybe making the switch sooner than later. I will be sticking with Heavyweight 7's for the 20 ga. Just wondering if anyone else will be moving to the dark side?
I am going to shoot the boxes of Hevi that I have then I am going to Nitros. If there is a time that I financially have to go back to lead then I will and lead will kill fine as long as you stay within 40 and know limitations of it, but the same is said about heavier than lead. Good luck and I know you will stack the birds up.
Sent from the Strut Zone
I have a bunch of boxes of Hevi 3/2/6's, 3/2/7's and 3.5/2.25/7's. That being said I have several boxes of the 3" Win LB's 5's and 6's. Consistent patterns with the 6's. Wont buy anymore Hevi 13. Price is going up and the quality going down. By the time I run out of Hevi 13 they will probably have come a long way with lead shells and the LB's won't be the only high performance lead load around.
I don't shoot hevi shot,i shoot H.W. 7's in a 10,12-3",12-3 1/2",and 20 and have a lifetime supply of all!But if i had too, I would shoot the longbeards with complete confidence in all guns!!!Modern tech these day's blow's my mind,only thing is finding where to buy most of the new stuff!!
Switched from hevi to LB's this past season.They did great,no need to use anything else.
So many of the Hs /Hw/ etc. bought up but I also have the LBs and if they were in the 20 I'd not hesitate to sell my hevi loads and finish out my last few years with Lbs and Win HVs lead.
Let's just say that this Longbeard is among the best lead shells to come out in the past 25 years in my opinion.
This is an especially nice option for the fixed choke guys. I have absolute confidence that these shells in 20 gauge #6 shot would sell like hotcakes. Hello???? Winchester, do you hear us????? Pleeezze.
Quotefinish out my last few years with Lbs and Win HVs lead.
Hopefully, you have Many years left to go. :icon_thumright:
Not me. Got plenty of Hevi-13 to last quite a while.
Once I run out ove hevi, I'm making the switch
I made the switch last year after I patterned the LB's.Better pattern at a longer range and a bit cheaper...win win
Still have a few boxes of hevi, when there done I'm going LB
I switched in the 12 but the 20 will be HW unless winchester surprises us with the 6's LB for the 20.
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Been stocking up on LB's...... :icon_thumright: :icon_thumright:
It will take me SEVERAL years to run out of Hevi-13. I also have a pile of Thugs for my son if he ever wants to turkey hunt.
Lead isn't hevi shot..... Why anyone would ever switch back to a lesser product is beyond me!
Got a huge stash of Nitro ammo for my 12 gauges. TSS for my 20 gauges. Don't see myself going back to lead.
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Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on December 29, 2014, 08:23:55 AM
Lead isn't hevi shot..... Why anyone would ever switch back to a lesser product is beyond me!
Beats me. Ammo is the least expensive thing about my hunting.
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Seriously... Shoot 5-10 turkeys a spring and it costs 60 bucks in hevi or 100 in Nitros. You spend more on fuel getting to and from the field.
The actual shot is the most undervalued component of the killing process. Lead doesn't have the kinetic energy nor the long range pattern density. I want the best stuff I can afford coming out of my barrels when I squeeze the trigger.
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on December 29, 2014, 08:23:55 AM
Lead isn't hevi shot..... Why anyone would ever switch back to a lesser product is beyond me!
I'm scanning through the thread thinking the same thing, I mean lead kills but you guys that used to shoot Hevj and HW, why did you switch fro lead to HTL?
Quote from: ccleroy on December 30, 2014, 07:54:03 AM
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on December 29, 2014, 08:23:55 AM
Lead isn't hevi shot..... Why anyone would ever switch back to a lesser product is beyond me!
I'm scanning through the thread thinking the same thing, I mean lead kills but you guys that used to shoot Hevj and HW, why did you switch fro lead to HTL?
I switched from lead to HTL because I could not get consistent pattern density from lead beyond the 35- 40 yard marker. With the patterns I'm getting from LB 6's, I'll be more than comfortable taking that 40+ shot, if needed.
Quote from: Spring Creek Calls on December 30, 2014, 02:11:47 PM
Quote from: ccleroy on December 30, 2014, 07:54:03 AM
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on December 29, 2014, 08:23:55 AM
Lead isn't hevi shot..... Why anyone would ever switch back to a lesser product is beyond me!
I'm scanning through the thread thinking the same thing, I mean lead kills but you guys that used to shoot Hevj and HW, why did you switch fro lead to HTL?
I switched from lead to HTL because I could not get consistent pattern density from lead beyond the 35- 40 yard marker. With the patterns I'm getting from LB 6's, I'll be more than comfortable taking that 40+ shot, if needed.
This is the problem with longbeards.
All you guys think you now have a lead load that will kill turkey 10/10 times at 45-50 yards and it won't.
There is so much talk about "ethics" on this board but longbeards isn't the ethical shell to be shooting at birds in the 40+ range. It has made lead a reliable 40 yard killer where in the past lead was really only consistently effective in the 35-40 range. They haven't changed the antimony of the metal and therefore, the laws of physics don't support 40+ yard applications. It's still lead, dude.
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on December 30, 2014, 03:23:27 PM
Quote from: Spring Creek Calls on December 30, 2014, 02:11:47 PM
Quote from: ccleroy on December 30, 2014, 07:54:03 AM
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on December 29, 2014, 08:23:55 AM
Lead isn't hevi shot..... Why anyone would ever switch back to a lesser product is beyond me!
I'm scanning through the thread thinking the same thing, I mean lead kills but you guys that used to shoot Hevj and HW, why did you switch fro lead to HTL?
I switched from lead to HTL because I could not get consistent pattern density from lead beyond the 35- 40 yard marker. With the patterns I'm getting from LB 6's, I'll be more than comfortable taking that 40+ shot, if needed.
This is the problem with longbeards.
All you guys think you now have a lead load that will kill turkey 10/10 times at 45-50 yards and it won't.
There is so much talk about "ethics" on this board but longbeards isn't the ethical shell to be shooting at birds in the 40+ range. It has made lead a reliable 40 yard killer where in the past lead was really only consistently effective in the 35-40 range. They haven't changed the antimony of the metal and therefore, the laws of physics don't support 40+ yard applications. It's still lead, dude.
This is what I was getting at........the bad thing about it is Winchester Markets it as a "Longer Range Shell".......it's a shame to be honest.....lead is still lead.
The decision for me to hunt with a particular turkey load has nothing to do with marketing. It has everything to do with how a particular load patterns at the range, time after time. From what I've seen in the patterning section, many have also done their homework.
I switched over to LB last year. For several years before that I used hevi mag blends which shot better then anything else until I tried the LB....my 935 loves them with a Truglo SSX choke. The LB held a better pattern out to 40 yards then the mag blends (never tested it beyond 40) and they performed great in the field. I've already ordered two boxes of LB 3 1/2 6 shot. I believe I will be sticking with the LB for awhile.
God bless
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Quote from: VA_Birdhunter on December 30, 2014, 08:00:26 PM
I switched over to LB last year. For several years before that I used hevi mag blends which shot better then anything else until I tried the LB....my 935 loves them with a Truglo SSX choke. The LB held a better pattern out to 40 yards then the mag blends (never tested it beyond 40) and they performed great in the field. I've already ordered two boxes of LB 3 1/2 6 shot. I believe I will be sticking with the LB for awhile.
God bless
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So you shot a triplex, 5x6x7 load (mag blend) and want to compare pattern density to straight 6 longbeards? Do you fail to realize how much space the 5s are taking up in that shot cup?
A fair pattern density comparison would be hevi-13 straight 6s to longbeards straight 6s. However, I'd bet you one of my favorite turkey guns that h13 6s will out pattern longbeard 6s day in and day out in most guns.
Furthermore, the kinetic energy of hevi 6s is far more devastating than that of lead so there really is no comparison.
Im still left shaking my head from all the responses to Ccleroy's questions. Not one makes any damn sense.
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on December 30, 2014, 08:23:11 PM
Quote from: VA_Birdhunter on December 30, 2014, 08:00:26 PM
I switched over to LB last year. For several years before that I used hevi mag blends which shot better then anything else until I tried the LB....my 935 loves them with a Truglo SSX choke. The LB held a better pattern out to 40 yards then the mag blends (never tested it beyond 40) and they performed great in the field. I've already ordered two boxes of LB 3 1/2 6 shot. I believe I will be sticking with the LB for awhile.
God bless
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So you shot a triplex, 5x6x7 load (mag blend) and want to compare pattern density to straight 6 longbeards? Do you fail to realize how much space the 5s are taking up in that shot cup?
A fair pattern density comparison would be hevi-13 straight 6s to longbeards straight 6s. However, I'd bet you one of my favorite turkey guns that h13 6s will out pattern longbeard 6s day in and day out in most guns.
Furthermore, the kinetic energy of hevi 6s is far more devastating than that of lead so there really is no comparison.
Im still left shaking my head from all the responses to Ccleroy's questions. Not one makes any damn sense.
VaTuRkStOmPeR...first of all slow steady breaths there bud!!
Second I was answering the questions posed by Spring Creek Calls as you can see I never responded to you prior rants...as on most occasions I don't reply to or get involved in the on line arguments/rants unless its totally against my core beliefs of turkey hunting. I just love talking turkey, calls, hunts etc.
Third I will take a more consistent even pattern over kinetic energy....a canon ball has more kinetic energy then hevi shot maybe I should take it!
Fourth I also shot LB against Hevi 6 shot it also had a better consistent pattern out to 40 yrds over Hevi 6 shot in "MY" gun.
Fifth I never even mentioned kinetic energy I know all about it and have shot hevi shot for years...I shot it the first year it ever hit the market....does it have more then LB yes in my opinion it does but the better consistent pattern made the difference for me.
Sixth I never asked anyone to switch to LB or persuade them to switch or asked you to switch....I stated what worked for me and why.
Lastly if you want to shot hevi shot or nitro by all means have at it....but my reasons for change makes a lot of sense for me. You see the hunt is about the experience weather I take a bird out or leave him thundering on a ridge top. Since the kill is not the #1 thing to me I will not chance taking a shot I don't think is capable of cleanly killing a gobbler. Over my 24 years of hunting I've let many walk that I'm sure others would take a shot at. I can sit for hours listening to the spring woods and turkeys gobbling and talking around me...and sharing countless hours with my hunting buddies and Christian brothers that's what its about. Do I like bagging long beards? You beat but there is WAY more to it then that! Also before its even brought up I don't agree with the 60 yard claim by Winchester but I don't own the company so I have no control over what they print on the box. You would be hard pressed to find someone that loves turkey hunting more then me and I truly mean that I devote countless hours and days to this passion and addiction year round not just during or before season.....and have no problem knowing if a shot is ethical or not so we won't go there....but remember the best gun, choke and shell can leave a turkey wounded and left to waste.....there is nothing certain on this earth! Your free to have your opinion but so am I and I don't need your approval to chose my shell of choice. You might want to consider a stress reliever...just say in!
God Bless
Shoot what you want. Just remember after switching from HTL back to lead that you better run to your bird when he goes down, especially at 36-40 yards and anything misjudged past it.
Sent from the Strut Zone
Quote from: davisd9 on December 30, 2014, 10:52:15 PM
Shoot what you want. Just remember after switching from HTL back to lead that you better run to your bird when he goes down, especially at 36-40 yards and anything misjudged past it.
Sent from the Strut Zone
David9 I'm sorry but I completely disagree! All 5 long beards I shot last year was between 31-39 yards. All 5 was dropped right in there tracks I didn't run to one bird. Crazy distances maybe (I'm not the guy that will be doing that even with HTL) but that can also be said for HTL. Sorry but that is a gross exaggeration!
God bless
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Quote from: VA_Birdhunter on December 31, 2014, 04:59:11 AM
Quote from: davisd9 on December 30, 2014, 10:52:15 PM
Shoot what you want. Just remember after switching from HTL back to lead that you better run to your bird when he goes down, especially at 36-40 yards and anything misjudged past it.
Sent from the Strut Zone
David9 I'm sorry but I completely disagree! All 5 long beards I shot last year was between 31-39 yards. All 5 was dropped right in there tracks I didn't run to one bird. Crazy distances maybe (I'm not the guy that will be doing that even with HTL) but that can also be said for HTL. Sorry but that is a gross exaggeration!
God bless
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You are welcome to disagree but I have shot and seen enough shot with lead and HTL to see the difference in the bird being hit with shot. I have absolutely no reason to grossly over exaggerate . I am just throwing out a warning to be ready after to shoot with a lead shell. I am mostly speaking of #6 lead by the way, should clarify that, but have seen #5 do it as well. If you have never done the stunned bird shuffle then you have never lived, haha..
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Quote from: VA_Birdhunter on December 31, 2014, 04:59:11 AM
Quote from: davisd9 on December 30, 2014, 10:52:15 PM
Shoot what you want. Just remember after switching from HTL back to lead that you better run to your bird when he goes down, especially at 36-40 yards and anything misjudged past it.
Sent from the Strut Zone
David9 I'm sorry but I completely disagree! All 5 long beards I shot last year was between 31-39 yards. All 5 was dropped right in there tracks I didn't run to one bird. Crazy distances maybe (I'm not the guy that will be doing that even with HTL) but that can also be said for HTL. Sorry but that is a gross exaggeration!
God bless
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Ok
(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/31/55c7fd0a281ffb8207572170210f4b90.jpg)
(http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/moses25roman/Mobile%20Uploads/utf-8BSU1BRzAzNjkuanBn_zps9b85a278.jpg) (http://s794.photobucket.com/user/moses25roman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/utf-8BSU1BRzAzNjkuanBn_zps9b85a278.jpg.html)
^^^ the difference is hevi-shot actually does have the KE to kill at 50 and 60 yards consistently.
Quote from: ccleroy on December 31, 2014, 09:16:34 AM
Quote from: VA_Birdhunter on December 31, 2014, 04:59:11 AM
Quote from: davisd9 on December 30, 2014, 10:52:15 PM
Shoot what you want. Just remember after switching from HTL back to lead that you better run to your bird when he goes down, especially at 36-40 yards and anything misjudged past it.
Sent from the Strut Zone
David9 I'm sorry but I completely disagree! All 5 long beards I shot last year was between 31-39 yards. All 5 was dropped right in there tracks I didn't run to one bird. Crazy distances maybe (I'm not the guy that will be doing that even with HTL) but that can also be said for HTL. Sorry but that is a gross exaggeration!
God bless
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ok
Ok ???
Quote from: VA_Birdhunter on December 31, 2014, 10:47:02 AM
Quote from: ccleroy on December 31, 2014, 09:16:34 AM
Quote from: VA_Birdhunter on December 31, 2014, 04:59:11 AM
Quote from: davisd9 on December 30, 2014, 10:52:15 PM
Shoot what you want. Just remember after switching from HTL back to lead that you better run to your bird when he goes down, especially at 36-40 yards and anything misjudged past it.
Sent from the Strut Zone
David9 I'm sorry but I completely disagree! All 5 long beards I shot last year was between 31-39 yards. All 5 was dropped right in there tracks I didn't run to one bird. Crazy distances maybe (I'm not the guy that will be doing that even with HTL) but that can also be said for HTL. Sorry but that is a gross exaggeration!
God bless
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ok
Ok ???
Lead will kill, there's no debating that. And if that's all we had to our disposal and all realized its limitations we would be fine. All I'm saying is remember the KE you had with Hevi is not the same with lead.......not knocking you by any means.....
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on December 31, 2014, 09:58:38 AM
^^^ the difference is hevi-shot actually does have the KE to kill at 50 and 60 yards consistently.
There is no doubt in my mind that it does and I agree with you.....I also know the limitations to using the shell I shoot. I have deep respect for my passion of turkey hunting and if it's not within the appropriate range Im letting it walk. I'm not saying HTL isn't a good its great for hunting but I also believe the LB complete the task very well that I need them for.
God bless
Quote from: ccleroy on December 31, 2014, 10:49:57 AM
Quote from: VA_Birdhunter on December 31, 2014, 10:47:02 AM
Quote from: ccleroy on December 31, 2014, 09:16:34 AM
Quote from: VA_Birdhunter on December 31, 2014, 04:59:11 AM
Quote from: davisd9 on December 30, 2014, 10:52:15 PM
Shoot what you want. Just remember after switching from HTL back to lead that you better run to your bird when he goes down, especially at 36-40 yards and anything misjudged past it.
Sent from the Strut Zone
David9 I'm sorry but I completely disagree! All 5 long beards I shot last year was between 31-39 yards. All 5 was dropped right in there tracks I didn't run to one bird. Crazy distances maybe (I'm not the guy that will be doing that even with HTL) but that can also be said for HTL. Sorry but that is a gross exaggeration!
God bless
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ok
Ok ???
Lead will kill, there's no debating that. And if that's all we had to our disposal and all realized its limitations we would be fine. All I'm saying is remember the KE you had with Hevi is not the same with lead.......not knocking you by any means.....
ccleroy...buddy I'm not knocking you either and wouldn't want you to think that for nothing! I do agree with what your saying and there is limitations to both. It's sad that some don't respect the game we pursue and use good judgement...and it happens with all game animals unfortunately! I also do not in anyway agree with what Winchester puts on there box in regards to the effective range is garbage and can miss lead someone that doesn't know better or have learned the difference and better yet the truth! I still own hevi shot and it will always have a place with me.....I'm sure not writing off completely just pushing it back for a bit!
God bless
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I think, IMO, that both HTL shooters and lead shooters - who participate on this forum - understand that an advertisement like the one below there's plenty reason to be concerned.
I hunt public ground that is a couple hundred thousand acres, and run into a lot of hunters during the course of a season. Most, in my personal experience, hunt only with a factory xfull choke tube, or a standard full choke.
They have no idea what POA vs. POI means.
They have no tested and established maximum range.
They walk into box stores and buy the box of shells with a turkey on them. They may read on that box that they can kill a turkey with 10% greater efficiency than the other box of shells sitting on the shelf.
They walk to a gobbling turkey and at first chance pull the trigger with a false sense of confidence in the gun and shell combination.
That is very concerning. I don't believe anyone who participates on a forum like this would do that, but your average, run of the mill hunt a Saturday or two per year hunter very well may.
No reason for us to argue about it. Perhaps instead its up to us to help educate those who really don't know any better if and when the opportunity presents itself in the field or at camp.
Just my thoughts on this HTL vs. lead discussions.
Quote from: ccleroy on December 31, 2014, 09:34:06 AM
(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/31/55c7fd0a281ffb8207572170210f4b90.jpg)
40 yards is a playing around shot with long beards. We skinned out a birds head last year that my dad shot at 37 yards and every pellet passed completely through his head and was in a white pine right behind the birds head pellets passed through dead center mass of the skull. It picked him up and tucked his head under his body and he never flopped. He didn't even death flop or kick when he picked him up. I've shot hevi shot for 5-6 years now. I love mag blends. I shoot fed heavyweight 7's in my 20. But 40 yards with long beards in my set up is child's play. It completely dumps and up ends gobblers. I myself haven't killed a bird with long beards yet. But watching what it does on paper and what it done to my dads bird and another bird he killed it's devastating for copper plated for $21 a box for ten. The dense even patterns just flat out kill. I my self have halfway crossed over. I put a mag blend in my chamber and load my magazine up with long beards. I have complete faith in my set up with long beards to ranges we're not allowed to talk about on here. But myself I don't like to shot long distance. That's why I get out of bed and hunt the hateful bastards is to fool him and shoot him at 20 steps and put the wad and all right beside his head. I get a lot of pleasure out of that. But I spend lots of money and time with my guns at the range and testing on paper and penetration test on soup cans and I know what my gun/load/choke combo is and isn't capable of so when the time arises I know if it's a green light on pulling the trigger or not. I love everything about spring gobbler hunting and I take it very serious and I don't get up 2-3 hours before daylight, drive to where I'm hunting, walk to where I want to be before daylight to play around. I'm there to kill and punch time clocks on gobblers heads. I'm not scared to spend money on shells and I don't make a lot of money. It's nice knowing I can stock up on very capable shells like long beards. What I really wish is Federal would do away with flite control wad and sell a 3" 2oz load of straight heavyweight 7's with a regular wad. I'd spend $500 right now on a lifetime supply of that if it would happen one day. But I'm getting way of subject I think a couple times in my response lol sorry. What I meant to say is yes Long beards are very capable 40 yard shells for sure and between me and the fence post their very capable a few steps farther but I won't say that number. There is no denying that hevi shot is bad medicine and federal HW is the baddest thing behind hand loading tss. What it boils down to is spend time at the range know what your gun can and can't do and go hunting. Gob bless and I hope everyone puts it on several red, white, and blue heads this coming spring. Keep your cheek down, squeeze the trigger, don't flinch or close your eyes and let the gobblers die.
Shooting 40yds or less I have been able to turn awesome patterns that kill efficiently with HTL and lead. The LB's make lead even more effective inside 40yds due to pattern density. I have seen less than satisfactory results guiding with hunters trying to take shots at 50,60yds. Best results come from shooting inside 40yds no matter what gun/choke/shell combo. Too many factors in the woods: low light conditions, saplings, limbs, wind, misjudged distances, temp/ pattern variations, hunter excitement, a wild animal that can move, etc. just my experience with 40 years of turkey hunting.
I completely agree with you 100%. I prefer 30 yard shoots myself.
I have read this whole thread and agree with many points, but back to the original question. I haven't moved from Hevi to the LB yet but I'm sure gonna get some and shoot a few to see how they perform. I just cant get past $6 a shell, seems a bit much in my opinion.
When my HS is gone, I am switching to LB....
Quote from: paturkeyhntr on January 06, 2015, 10:10:54 AM
When my HS is gone, I am switching to LB....
Not me, I have a big stash of Hevi 3-2-7, and I really have no interest in shooting lead anymore.
I might just switch back to my old Fed #7 1/2s.
I had shot and evaluated every lead turkey load made prior to the introduction of HTL loads. The initial offering of HTL shells made by both Remington and Polywad exceeded the performance of every lead load then on the market, no exceptions. Even w/ the phenomenal strides by Winchester and the LongBeard shells they are still lead loads and it is not an "apple to apple" comparison w/ HTL. Unfortunately, the Chinese control the bulk of the world's tungsten reserve and I have read nothing which indicates that the cost will not continue to climb in the future as world demand for the metal increases. Turkey hunters who want the "best" turkey loads available will pay even more in the future for premium HTL loads and the ability of a major ammunition manufacturer to produce HTL loads will ultimately be a "supply and demand" decision based upon a number of economic factors. Am I switching to lead? No, I've got a lifetime supply of HTL shotshells, but based on my evaluation of the LB shell in both 3" and 31/2", I wouldn't hesitate to hunt w/ them w/ a 40-45 yard maximum range limit. Every ethical turkey hunter needs to express his outrage to the marketing minions of the shotshell manufacturers who are fostering the "long range" claims of their particular shell. This marketing hype is a real travesty and disservice to all ethical turkey hunters!!!
I'm gonna stick with my HEVI-13, lead is lead no matter how you look at it and you can't make it hit harder than HTL. The way I've seen HEVI kill I don't know if I could shoot anything else.
Lol!!! Shoot a gobbler at 40 steps with Long Beard's and see what happens!!!
This is 50 yards with LB 6's. More than lethal if I mis judge 40 yards.
(http://i541.photobucket.com/albums/gg383/duncan7489/Miscellaneous/C811578B-B31A-4178-81FC-45CFA389EB3D.jpg) (http://s541.photobucket.com/user/duncan7489/media/Miscellaneous/C811578B-B31A-4178-81FC-45CFA389EB3D.jpg.html)
Anyone here that says that it's not lethal at 40-45 yards then I want my account deleted off this forum board asap because if so this forum board is a big hipocrital joke. And that picture is a laysered 50 yards. I dunno what to say for ya. $18.99 for 10 count box of lethal copper platter lead is a easy green light. I get out of bed to chase gobblers and to experience close encounters. If you want to kill turkeys at 80-90 yards take a .243.
I shoot hevi shot and fed heavy weight as well but these long beards with right attention to load choke combo are 50 yards shells all day everyday. I don't go hunting to say man can't wait to shoot a gobbler at 50 steps and try these shells out! I go out there to get him to 10-15 steps if I can and try to cut his head off with the wad and all beside his head!!!
I don't understand why hunters, are hunters biggest hump in the road. One man is mad that another spends $30 for 5 shells. And the next man is mad that some guy is shooting copper plated lead. I just don't get it.
Quote from: SpitNDrumN on January 06, 2015, 03:48:20 PM
I don't understand why hunters, are hunters biggest hump in the road. One man is mad that another spends $30 for 5 shells. And the next man is mad that some guy is shooting copper plated lead. I just don't get it.
Exactly! We'll all be happier when everyone accepts the fact that I'm always right. ;)
Quote from: SpitNDrumN on January 06, 2015, 03:39:03 PM
Lol!!! Shoot a gobbler at 40 steps with Long Beard's and see what happens!!!
This is 50 yards with LB 6's. More than lethal if I mis judge 40 yards.
(http://i541.photobucket.com/albums/gg383/duncan7489/Miscellaneous/C811578B-B31A-4178-81FC-45CFA389EB3D.jpg) (http://s541.photobucket.com/user/duncan7489/media/Miscellaneous/C811578B-B31A-4178-81FC-45CFA389EB3D.jpg.html)
Anyone here that says that it's not lethal at 40-45 yards then I want my account deleted off this forum board asap because if so this forum board is a big hipocrital joke. And that picture is a laysered 50 yards. I dunno what to say for ya. $18.99 for 10 count box of lethal copper platter lead is a easy green light. I get out of bed to chase gobblers and to experience close encounters. If you want to kill turkeys at 80-90 yards take a .243.
I shoot hevi shot and fed heavy weight as well but these long beards with right attention to load choke combo are 50 yards shells all day everyday. I don't go hunting to say man can't wait to shoot a gobbler at 50 steps and try these shells out! I go out there to get him to 10-15 steps if I can and try to cut his head off with the wad and all beside his head!!!
I completely agree with this. My favorite was 3.5" #5 longbeards. I just wish they would come out with longbeards for a 20ga now.
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Quote from: stinkpickle on January 06, 2015, 10:57:00 AM
I might just switch back to my old Fed #7 1/2s.
Oh Pickle Man, I can only imagine the swarm of 3/2/7.5 copper plated shot coming out my 1300 .660 IC. Be still my beating heart!
Quote from: Spring Creek Calls on January 06, 2015, 07:03:52 PM
Quote from: stinkpickle on January 06, 2015, 10:57:00 AM
I might just switch back to my old Fed #7 1/2s.
Oh Pickle Man, I can only imagine the swarm of 3/2/7.5 copper plated shot coming out my 1300 .660 IC. Be still my beating heart!
LOL! They can lose half their pellets and still have 350 left. :)
Quote from: stinkpickle on January 07, 2015, 10:10:10 AM
Quote from: Spring Creek Calls on January 06, 2015, 07:03:52 PM
Quote from: stinkpickle on January 06, 2015, 10:57:00 AM
I might just switch back to my old Fed #7 1/2s.
Oh Pickle Man, I can only imagine the swarm of 3/2/7.5 copper plated shot coming out my 1300 .660 IC. Be still my beating heart!
LOL! They can lose half their pellets and still have 350 left. :)
I have never shot this load, but look for a box at every gun shop I've ever set foot in. The search continues.
Quote from: Spring Creek Calls on January 07, 2015, 12:29:47 PM
I have never shot this load, but look for a box at every gun shop I've ever set foot in. The search continues.
Too late. I've hoarded them all. :)
Too late. I've hoarded them all. :)
[/quote]
You're a bad man, a very bad man!
I picked up a box of 3" LB's in #5 and #6 today. I'm looking forward to see what they do on paper. I've read too much not to find out for myself. :fud:
Quote from: stinkpickle on January 06, 2015, 10:57:00 AM
I might just switch back to my old Fed #7 1/2s.
Only 7 days into a new year, and we already have the 2015 post of the year !
That was awesome... :icon_thumright:
Yup, I still have two boxes of the 3/2/7.5's (gold/ blue box). Those will put em down. Shot those for several years.
Quote from: Longshanks on January 07, 2015, 08:57:43 PM
Yup, I still have two boxes of the 3/2/7.5's (gold/ blue box). Those will put em down. Shot those for several years.
I'll take em off your hands before they spoil.
I Switched last year long beards pattern better than my hevi 3/2/7 and they don't leak buffer all over
Quote from: Ruger M77 on January 08, 2015, 09:44:53 AM
I Switched last year long beards pattern better than my hevi 3/2/7 and they don't leak buffer all over
Man, what long beard shell were you using? Not to start an argument but if it was the 3" #6 long beard shell I have a very hard time believing 1.75oz of lead #6s shot better than 2oz of hevi #7s. Even if it was the 3.5" 2oz number #6s I find it hard to believe. Were you shooting at a large target to see your entire pattern? When I shot the hevi shot shells they had a different POI than lead shells.
Quote from: Spring Creek Calls on January 07, 2015, 10:10:05 PM
Quote from: Longshanks on January 07, 2015, 08:57:43 PM
Yup, I still have two boxes of the 3/2/7.5's (gold/ blue box). Those will put em down. Shot those for several years.
I'll take em off your hands before they spoil.
Funny story about those shells. I gave them to a friend of mine years ago that used to own the company that I called on their call team. Last year I thought about them after seeing info on Old Gobbler. He still had them and gave them back. Hadn't shot them yet through my gun. They outta be serious out of an 870 21" kicks .655. Used to shoot them out of a Hastings .665 and they were business then.
Quote from: Longshanks on January 08, 2015, 01:32:10 PM
Quote from: Spring Creek Calls on January 07, 2015, 10:10:05 PM
Quote from: Longshanks on January 07, 2015, 08:57:43 PM
Yup, I still have two boxes of the 3/2/7.5's (gold/ blue box). Those will put em down. Shot those for several years.
I'll take em off your hands before they spoil.
Funny story about those shells. I gave them to a friend of mine years ago that used to own the company that I called on their call team. Last year I thought about them after seeing info on Old Gobbler. He still had them and gave them back. Hadn't shot them yet through my gun. They outta be serious out of an 870 21" kicks .655. Used to shoot them out of a Hastings .665 and they were business then.
Think of the R&D money Federal could have saved if they reintroduced these for their short/mid/40 yard load instead of the Third degree.
Im sticking with my hevi 13 and fed hwts for many years. For the price I have bought the hevi 13s and fed hwt in the past few years and after the rebates I cant even buy half a box of longbeards now as cheap as I bought my hevi shot.
Like many I still have several boxes of hevi I will shoot but won't buy more as long as the LBs shoot well. The heavier than lead wave was fun to ride while it was affordable I got a bunch at like 18 a box but 25-30 it's just not worth it
Quote from: Gobble! on January 08, 2015, 11:07:46 AM
Quote from: Ruger M77 on January 08, 2015, 09:44:53 AM
I Switched last year long beards pattern better than my hevi 3/2/7 and they don't leak buffer all over
Man, what long beard shell were you using? Not to start an argument but if it was the 3" #6 long beard shell I have a very hard time believing 1.75oz of lead #6s shot better than 2oz of hevi #7s. Even if it was the 3.5" 2oz number #6s I find it hard to believe. Were you shooting at a large target to see your entire pattern? When I shot the hevi shot shells they had a different POI than lead shells.
I know I couldn't believe it either I'm shooting the 3" 1 3/4 oz 6s yes I shot at a large target I shot several patterns to make sure and the lb beat them every time that being said these were the worst patterns I've ever had with hevi 3/2/7 before they gave better patterns than I got with the Lb if I could get those patterns again I'd switch back to hevi
Quote from: Ruger M77 on January 08, 2015, 09:44:53 AM
I Switched last year long beards pattern better than my hevi 3/2/7 and they don't leak buffer all over
The last 10 Hevi 13's I bought arrived in the same condition. The shipping box was full of buffer from 9 of the 10 shells. Had to candle wax them. My confidence level goes down with loose shot rattling around in the shell!
I have shot Hevi 6 and 7's for years, with the cost of them now i picked up some LB 5 and 6. Today was test day and I can say I would have no issue moving forward with the LB's. I liked both patterns but think I will use the 5's this year. No way a bird can walk thru the 40 yard pattern. Looks like I will be making the switch.
Been using Hevi-13 #6 & #7 for the past two seasons with very satisfied results. These things flat out puts the smack down on turkeys but I'm sure the LB's will do the same but I doubt they will kill as effective as the Hevi-13 at the longer ranges. But both will kill very well at the distances we should be shooting at anyway. I did have one shell leak buffer in the magazine of my gun & some in my turkey vest this past season. I put some candle wax on the end of it to seal it. This is unacceptable for a shell that cost so much. But I bought the last 4 boxes while they were on rebate so the price was not nearly as bad. That being said I ordered 2 boxes of long beards last season but cancelled my order after several weeks of back order. I would like to try some but I don't plan on switching unless I run out of Hevi-13 & the price goes up a lot more. I've just gained too much confidence in the Hevi-13 the past 2 years to switch right now. Confidence is kinda like respect, you have to earn it if you know what I mean.
Quote from: grayfox on January 10, 2015, 03:52:24 PM
I did have one shell leak buffer in the magazine of my gun & some in my turkey vest this past season. I put some candle wax on the end of it to seal it. This is unacceptable for a shell that cost so much.
Agreed, shouldn't have to light a candle to fix some of their shells. Unacceptable quality for that kind of coin.
I've had really good results from hevi 6s and 7s since 2011. However I think I'm going to sell the 5 or 6 boxes I have left and use the money for some more good calls or something like that. I bought a bunch of older Winchester double X 3.5 number 5s and they pattern quite well out of my guns. I don't shoot birds at long ranges which is where the hevi really has its advantages. To me it's like someone shooting partitions or Barnes X bullets into deer when a plain old Sierr@ soft point will kill them just as dead. Just my opinion.
Quote from: budtripp on January 12, 2015, 10:38:30 AM
I bought a bunch of older Winchester double X 3.5 number 5s and they pattern quite well out of my guns.
I've killed a bunch of birds over the last 35+ years with those shells, in 2-3/4", 3" and 3-1/2".
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on December 30, 2014, 08:23:11 PM
Quote from: VA_Birdhunter on December 30, 2014, 08:00:26 PM
I switched over to LB last year. For several years before that I used hevi mag blends which shot better then anything else until I tried the LB....my 935 loves them with a Truglo SSX choke. The LB held a better pattern out to 40 yards then the mag blends (never tested it beyond 40) and they performed great in the field. I've already ordered two boxes of LB 3 1/2 6 shot. I believe I will be sticking with the LB for awhile.
God bless
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So you shot a triplex, 5x6x7 load (mag blend) and want to compare pattern density to straight 6 longbeards? Do you fail to realize how much space the 5s are taking up in that shot cup?
A fair pattern density comparison would be hevi-13 straight 6s to longbeards straight 6s. However, I'd bet you one of my favorite turkey guns that h13 6s will out pattern longbeard 6s day in and day out in most guns.
Furthermore, the kinetic energy of hevi 6s is far more devastating than that of lead so there really is no comparison.
Im still left shaking my head from all the responses to Ccleroy's questions. Not one makes any damn sense.
Heres the reason I switched. I like to kill turkeys within 40 yards and I want the best pattern I can get. Longbeards do both for half the price. If a turkey is past 40 yards you haven't called him up yet. Why should I spend the extra$? What advantage does hevi shot give over longbeards at 40 yards? They hit harder but dead is dead.
Oh boy, now they've gone and come out with a 1-7/8 oz load in 3" and a 2-1/8 oz load in 3.5", both at 1050 fps. Whatever will those devils come out with next, LB 7's? 20 ga?
I'll not run out of Mag Blends anytime soon. I'll stick with Hevi13's
I got a pretty good stockpile of htl and lead shells so no switching for me. If I didn't already have a great combo and dang near lifetime supply of shells, I probably would be shooting the 3" Longbeards in 4s and 5s.
Got about 50 round of Hevi 7s including 4 boxes of the magical lot number and 15 rounds of hevi 6s. I am good for at least a couple years.
Sent from the Strut Zone
Quote from: stinkpickle on January 06, 2015, 04:30:17 PM
Quote from: SpitNDrumN on January 06, 2015, 03:48:20 PM
I don't understand why hunters, are hunters biggest hump in the road. One man is mad that another spends $30 for 5 shells. And the next man is mad that some guy is shooting copper plated lead. I just don't get it.
Exactly! We'll all be happier when everyone accepts the fact that I'm always right. ;)
lmao!!!!
Hi guys - I'm a noobie to participating in this forum - but have been a forum "voiyouer [sp?] for some time. I've been active in turkey hunting since 1979 - doesnt make me an expert - but I have some experience. Heres my perspective ... get any bird inside 25 yds - dead bird if you did your part. Re : shells / guns / chokes - you dont need an arsenal of gear and ammo - but do your homework - find out at the pattern board what works for you - for the way you hunt / where you hunt. We all want a" buffer zone" with our equipment - be it a deer gun or a turkey shooter - something that instills confidence, even when the shot is "challenging".
I have over 20 guns just for turkeys - I've hunt different states, different seasons/ varying weather / with a mix of different conditions. Some guns are set up for field hunts or early season open timber [no green up yet ] - others are for leafed up short shooting [later season hunts]b. I've tried it all ... bottomline - know your choke / shell combos and you only need 1 gun to do it all.
RE: shells - I still have cases of shells that did me well - old Federal blue box lead [with turkey emblem], hevishot [orig and remington], Win LBs, etc - they will all work in the right condotions - nothing will compensate bad hunting choices! As they say - you pay your $ and take your choice. I'm an old dog that loves to learn new tricks - but 60 yd shots? give me a break!
My 2cnts. - new technology is a good thing, try it and find out for youself - but never ever think that some new wiz-bang shell / gun will ever make up for your own personal lack of skill. I have guided numerous "newbies" into the turkey hunting sport - my take is to patter your gun, after you have installed hi viz, adjustible sights on your rib, and enjoy hitting what you aim at. BUT, ymmv
I won't be switching from HTL any time soon. Lead is still lead and won't hold down range energy as well.
As much as I have invested in turkey gun, choke, sights, camo, snake boots, calls, time and fuel for scouting & hunting, spending the money for Hevi shot is worth the cost considering the way it totally stomps a gobbler. I got enough stashed away to last several more seasons.
Jim
The best thing I have seen with Win LB's is that they seem to be allot less finicky about gun, choke, combinations. I have taken a few of my shotguns that I struggled to get any of the Hevi 13 or Fed HW to pattern well and instantly had awesome patterns at 40yds. This and the cost is what I see as the benefits if the LB's. Sighting in guns with Hevi 13 and having to try several chokes and loads is hugely expensive. They are an easy solution to achieve great patterns out to 40yds. That being said Hevi 13 choked correctly and sighted in,,is devastating on the turkey.
Just how dead is dead enough? :OGturkeyhead:
I've never worried about killing one too dead. The theory of that works better but this works just good enough doesn't appeal to me.
Lots of stuff works when everything is right, I want my stuff to work even when things are wrong. I'm not looking to extend my range so much as to help make up for a mistake in yardage, that thin screen of twigs I can't see because of a shadow, that tough old bird that for whatever reason can take more punishment. If I have to pay some extra for insurance then I'll pay extra.
I made the switch from nitros and hevi 13 to longbeards. I killed birds for years with lead then switched to htl for some reason guess I thought htl would would kill a bird better. killed lots with nitros and hevi 13 but all in all it was the same end result. The longbeards pattern extremely well I am very pleased.
I got some LB 3inch 5 I am going to pattern when it warms up, but will always shoot HTL and TSS.I killed several with lead and several with HTL, but if I misjudge a shot over 40 yards I would rather have HTL, I have seen lots die, and never seen lead kill one past 35 yards better than HTL does at 40 plus.
Correct me if I'm wrong but lead is 11.34 g/cm3 and hevi 13 is 12g/cm3, so if you figure in the speed of longbeards at 1200fps vs 1090fps with hevi 13 that will make them nearly identical in KE. I understand that lead will deforms and more dense materials do not such as hevi. With that being said I think we are just simply splitting hairs between these two, but I can see the gain of using HTL if you use the mag blend which is faster . I can also see using HTL if its much more dense such as heavyweight 15g/cm3 or tss 18g/cm3 Then the speed wouldn't matter as much due to the weight of the shot.
Quote from: blueridgegobbler on January 31, 2015, 08:45:59 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong but lead is 11.34 g/cm3 and hevi 13 is 12g/cm3, so if you figure in the speed of longbeards at 1200fps vs 1090fps with hevi 13 that will make them nearly identical in KE. I understand that lead will deforms and more dense materials do not such as hevi. With that being said I think we are just simply splitting hairs between these two, but I can see the gain of using HTL if you use the mag blend which is faster . I can also see using HTL if its much more dense such as heavyweight 15g/cm3 or tss 18g/cm3 Then the speed wouldn't matter as much due to the weight of the shot.
Does the copper plating on the LB's help them with the deformity issue?
Quote from: Spring Creek Calls on January 31, 2015, 09:16:32 AM
Quote from: blueridgegobbler on January 31, 2015, 08:45:59 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong but lead is 11.34 g/cm3 and hevi 13 is 12g/cm3, so if you figure in the speed of longbeards at 1200fps vs 1090fps with hevi 13 that will make them nearly identical in KE. I understand that lead will deforms and more dense materials do not such as hevi. With that being said I think we are just simply splitting hairs between these two, but I can see the gain of using HTL if you use the mag blend which is faster . I can also see using HTL if its much more dense such as heavyweight 15g/cm3 or tss 18g/cm3 Then the speed wouldn't matter as much due to the weight of the shot.
Does the copper plating on the LB's help them with the deformity issue?
I tell ya what I'll do. It might not be a perfect test on it deforming but I will dig some out of the piece of wood I shot at for a target. Just to see if it deformed any on impact with the wood. Everyone of the pellets that didn't go to deep to see still looks round.
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Even if they do deform seems to me that would make larger wound channels and make a more dramatic transfer of energy. While you may lose some penetration due to the flattening in all reality its not like we are needing that much penetration. I don't know if anybody ha ever skinned the skull out of a gobbler but the are not that thick and the neck bone is about like a pencil.
I agree with ya. I was just saying I will dig some out of the board. I like the longbeards it don't think they deform. At least it doesn't look like it. I will take pics of me digging them out of the board and post.
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I wanted to try out the Longbeards, but have heard that the resin that holds the shot together melts in your barrel and is hard to clean unless it cleaned very shortly after the shot. Can anyone post it they had any problems or this is just bashing.
Thanks
I haven't heard of it causing problems.
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Quote from: Spring Creek Calls on January 31, 2015, 09:16:32 AM
Quote from: blueridgegobbler on January 31, 2015, 08:45:59 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong but lead is 11.34 g/cm3 and hevi 13 is 12g/cm3, so if you figure in the speed of longbeards at 1200fps vs 1090fps with hevi 13 that will make them nearly identical in KE. I understand that lead will deforms and more dense materials do not such as hevi. With that being said I think we are just simply splitting hairs between these two, but I can see the gain of using HTL if you use the mag blend which is faster . I can also see using HTL if its much more dense such as heavyweight 15g/cm3 or tss 18g/cm3 Then the speed wouldn't matter as much due to the weight of the shot.
Does the copper plating on the LB's help them with the deformity issue?
Well I finally got around to digging some shot out of the board I shot for pattern to see if they deformed on impact. The only thing I can see is where the knife point was prying it out of the wood.(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/06/5e7efd320a928995f01179cafb2b3898.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/06/c6a014971b9d9c96c32a8b0873e19275.jpg)
The copper plating sure seems to help with the lead deformity issue, which would help with patterning and penetration. Would the copper plating also increase each pellets density, further closing the gap between lead and Hevi 13?
Well, I don't know what the copper weighs but lead is 10.6 g/cc and Hevi shot went down from 13 to 12g/cc. You are comparing 1.4g/cc difference . The only reason I shoot hevi was for the pattern and it looks as if Longbeards has solved this for ethical ranges, no I don't want to take 60 yard shots. I try to be a hunter over just shooting turkeys. If one hangs up there's another day to hunt.
Quote from: worth612000 on February 07, 2015, 09:55:26 AM
Well, I don't know what the copper weighs but lead is 10.6 g/cc and Hevi shot went down from 13 to 12g/cc. You are comparing 1.4g/cc difference . The only reason I shoot hevi was for the pattern and it looks as if Longbeards has solved this for ethical ranges, no I don't want to take 60 yard shots. I try to be a hunter over just shooting turkeys. If one hangs up there's another day to hunt.
I have shot birds at 40 and a little further in the past. I started using hevi for the same reason as you. I wanted an acceptable pattern at 40. But it's been around 6 years since I've shot a bird at more than 25 yards. The longbeards have changed that. I have thought about going down from 5's and 6's to the longbeard 4's if they pattern good enough.
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Lots of other lead loads are copper plated too.
Copper plated lead , it has been said on this site, is just a wash, thin coating.
Looks like some of your shot in the board has no plating left, same as many other copper plated lead loads i have seen in my boards.
If Winchester used a thicker or tougher plating, a heavier or denser lead shot , you can rest assured that they would have advertised and promoted it.
If the lead didn't deform on impact , did it hit the target with enough retained velocity or energy to do so?
Did the Winchester xx or supreme do the same thing ? In that board material?
Great patterns , no doubt.
Will kill turkeys at ethical ranges , no doubt.
All you'll want to badmouth the Longbeards and preach ethics. Get real. Winchester never said to shoot 60 yards, they simply said you could put twice as many pellets in a 10 inch circle at 60 yards which is true.
On the other hand right there in the add for Magblends they are telling you the #5's in the load are good out to 75 plus!
I'll tell you why people shoot the Longbeards over that HTL stuff, because they work and the people that shoot them "hunt" turkeys and don't need to shoot 75 yards. Not to mention they are cheaper. No use paying MORE for LESS!
When you shoot something as fragile as a turkeys head and neck with #7.5 lead or larger, let alone #6 shot your pattern will fail before penetration ever will. You'll act like turkeys heads are armor plated or something. It's a wonder the old timers ever killed any without "turkey loads".
Quote from: Ihuntoldschool on February 08, 2015, 04:06:56 AM
All you'll want to badmouth the Longbeards and preach ethics. Get real. Winchester never said to shoot 60 yards, they simply said you could put twice as many pellets in a 10 inch circle at 60 yards which is true.
On the other hand right there in the add for Magblends they are telling you the #5's in the load are good out to 75 plus!
I'll tell you why people shoot the Longbeards over that HTL stuff, because they work and the people that shoot them "hunt" turkeys and don't need to shoot 75 yards. Not to mention they are cheaper. No use paying MORE for LESS!
Your right, Winchester doesn't advertise shooting the Longbeards at 60 yards, they advertise shooting them at "66 YARDS!"
All I know is I recovered tungsten #4 pellets from a turkey I shot last year at appx. 35 yards and they didn't fracture the neck bones. The shell was the 3" Xtended range Winchesters. Could have possibly been a fluke but I wouldn't trust lead 6's to reliably penetrate and break bone at 50, let alone 60.
Man I wish i could have let the old man who got me started killing turkeys know how tough a turkey is he shot a 2 3/4 inch Winchester #6 game load. I killed my first with his gun about 30 yards he probably didn't kill but 50 or 60 before he passed. I remember shooting 7.5 lead federal 2oz load smoked em at 40 yards. I used to be a htl fan just don't see the reason for it anymore with the patterns you can achieve with longbeards.
Switched from Hevi last spring to Longbeards. The LB's actually gave better pellet counts and patterns in the same shot size (#6) than my Hevis did. Only Hevi 7's out shoot the LB 6's in my gun/choke combo.
The turkey I shot last year gave longbeards a "two legs up" rating. :funnyturkey:
Mark me down in the switching column. All the buffer came out of my hevis and Longbeards shoot great!
Lead deforms and transfers its energy better than any of that other HTL stuff. If you shoot thru them all that energy that was wasted beyond the bird isn't worth a tinkers darn when it comes to killing. I like #6 lead for the pattern density but #7.5 lead is absolutely deadly out to 40 or so as long as the pattern is there, penetration will not be a problem. I've killed plenty squirrels with #7.5 and they are a lot tougher than a turkeys bare head and neck. Fur is tougher to penetrate than feathers and well a turkeys head and upper neck don't have much of either. Heck, I body shoot coyotes during the Spring Gobbler season with #6 lead and drop them with 1 shot.
The point I was making in reference to your post is that Winchester (or any company) shouldn't be advocating 60+ yard shooting. The subject of Hevi versus Longbeards was beat to death ad-nauseum last year so I'm not getting that started again. We will just have to agree that we disagree lol!
I'm no expert on physics so I can't say about lead deforming and transferring energy better. All I know is when I shoot them with Hevi shot they don't even flop. I enjoy being able to sit, give thanks and enjoy the moment instead of having to jump up and run to a flopping bird or one that's trying to run away(like I did every nearly every time with lead). To each his own. Enjoy your LB's. I'll gladly spend a couple bucks more a round for Hevi. Considering what I pay for my lease, fuel and other equipment, shells probably come to about .001 % of my turkey hunting expenses.
I don't care what I shoot one with lead or hevi. If he's flopping or not. My foot will be on the head as fast as I can get there. I've shot birds with hevi shot, hw and lead. I bet 99% of them flop after the shot. I've probably killed 25 or so with HTL shot. Two of those when I was die hard mag blend were complete mess to carry out one had half his neck blew slam out the other had a smooth hole through his and both still flopped.
Not arguing with you but that hasn't been my experience. I've only killed 6 birds since I switched three years ago. (We are only allowed two birds per year in Florida). Five of the six never moved a muscle and the sixth kicked one time. Maybe my experience is a fluke but I just don't see birds kicking for five minutes any more like they did when I used lead. Hopefully other states don't go the California route so folks can use lead if they want. Like people say, lead kills just fine. I just prefer Hevi.
Flopping is not an indicator of a clean kill or not. It's the nerves acting up. Cut off a snakes head and he'll still bite. Cut off a chicken's head and he'll still run around. No correlation between quality of kill and reaction post-shot.
When I shot Nitros I have taken their heads off literally and they still flop. Just nerves.
Have shot or seen shot, lots of turkeys . Some flop , some don't.
When using the hevi or Hw shot myself and others in the group have noticed and said that a lot more.
He didn't even flop! Then of course, maybe it could be from the many more hits in the head and neck with these better patterning loads.
Or from the trauma of penetration through the bones, which has been said to immobilize ?
It seems that when you really smash one, they don't flop as often. But some still do.
As far as lead killing better , and all that penetration of HTL shot going to waste. Not in mine or anyone in my groups experiences.
Go ask a thousand goose hunters who wouldn't switch from the lighter , less penetrating steel shot to the heavier , better penetrating lead or HTL shot in a second if they could for the same money, you will not get many NO's.
I'am waiting on some hevi .30 cal bullets for my rifle. I will never have to trail a deer again. He will be dead, dead, dead and maybe more dead.
Quote from: worth612000 on February 09, 2015, 05:21:31 PM
I'am waiting on some hevi .30 cal bullets for my rifle. I will never have to trail a deer again. He will be dead, dead, dead and maybe more dead.
barnes has already got them. Let us know how they work :)
I thought Barnes was copper, I want the Hevi stuff like TSS. I want my deer dead!
That's what I mean, I don't want no flopping deer or a need to haul butt down there and stand on this head. I want my deer dead and only Tungten will do it. Gotta get me some of them TSS .30 cal Bullets for sure.
I'am just joking at some folks who think lead will not kill turkeys. I will settle down and do what I do most, Watching the used turkey calls for sell.
barnes trx , just google tungston bullets , lots of them :)
I agree with you to a point that no company should be advocating 60 plus yard shots. But if you should not advocate 60 plus then you definitely should not advocate 75 plus! My point is all the HTL companies are just as guilty, actually more guilty than Winchester with the Longbeards of advocating trying to make this into a long range sport, but I do not believe they are being criticized by it to the point Winchester has been ever since the longbeards were introduced.
It amazes me how people judge a kill by the flop. If he is flopping with his head down he is dead, period. As far as them trying to run away after being hit with lead, you missed the vitals if that happened.
I shoot what my shotgun patterns best.
Quote from: Ihuntoldschool on February 09, 2015, 06:50:18 PM
It amazes me how people judge a kill by the flop. If he is flopping with his head down he is dead, period. As far as them trying to run away after being hit with lead, you missed the vitals if that happened.
Friend of mine shot one with a load of 5 with a 3 1/2" inside 35 yards, rolled it right over. Next thing it was up in the air flying, i jumped up and dropped him with a 3 1/2" 4 shot. he bounced on the ground and lay still, no flopping, nothing. As we stood there talking about how in the world he didn't kill that turkey and me saying dang i dropped it out of the air, no problem. All of the sudden another tom raced by the fence 3 feet from us. Well it wasn't another Tom. He jumped the fence easily, He is 6 foot 7" and the chase was on. 3 shots later he came back across the field with the bird. I laughed so hard it hurt.
Now i step on the head and try to get there quick, don't care if they are flopping or not.
They ;) ;)aint tough though.
Reply 122, we have stretched this too far. Everybody needs to shoot what they feel works for them. If you can take a bird at 20 miles away we don't want to hear about it, keep it to your self. Good night!
get yourself a good mouth call :z-winnersmiley: