I was patterning several shotguns yesterday (70 degrees and breezy) and was shooting both Federal HW 10 gauge #7's and a few of the Winchester 12 gauge Longbeard XR, 3" #6 shot. I hold my targets on the patterning board w/ 11/4" black metal file clips. At a lazered 40 yards the Winchester lead 6's were putting a 1/32" dent in the clips. The Federal HW 7's were punching through one side of the clip-through the cardboard backing of my target- and exiting the back side of the clip. With that said, the patterns w/ the Winchester Longbeard XR #6 were phenominal and averaged 198 in 10" with a nice even dispersal of shot in 20". I've got a substantial "stash" of the "old" EM Hevi13 7's, 6's and MagBlends and will be hunting w/ them for years to come, but with all the variability in the components, performance, and cost of the EM Hevi13 shells would advise folks to pattern and evaluate the new Winchester Longbeard XR offerings. My hunch is that a load of Longbeard XR 6's in the chamber w/ 2 Longbeard XR 5's as backup's may be the ticket. My only diconcerting observation on the XR's, and I only patterened them at 40 yards, was that the wads were all recovered approximately 18 yards from my shooting position which is indicative of an extremely tight close pattern.
Thanks for the info. I wish the Longbeards were 1300 fps like the Heavyweights. The #7 HW are about the same weight as the #6 LB but probably have about 90 more fps at 40 yds.
Quote from: klemsontigers7 on February 24, 2014, 10:44:56 AM
Thanks for the info. I wish the Longbeards were 1300 fps like the Heavyweights. The #7 HW are about the same weight as the #6 LB but probably have about 90 more fps at 40 yds.
The Fed HWs are 15 g/cc and lead is the 11 g/cc. They are no where close to the same weight. Those HWs are the barest factory loads on the market.
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Quote from: davisd9 on February 24, 2014, 11:08:55 AM
Quote from: klemsontigers7 on February 24, 2014, 10:44:56 AM
Thanks for the info. I wish the Longbeards were 1300 fps like the Heavyweights. The #7 HW are about the same weight as the #6 LB but probably have about 90 more fps at 40 yds.
The Fed HWs are 15 g/cc and lead is the 11 g/cc. They are no where close to the same weight. Those HWs are the barest factory loads on the market.
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Actually, the weight of a #6 lead is almost identical to the weight of a #7 Fed HW, like I said above. Do some research or calculate it yourself.
Whatever brother. Just trying to help you but believe what you will.
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Quote from: davisd9 on February 24, 2014, 11:16:53 AM
Whatever brother. Just trying to help you but believe what you will.
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Tell me then, what is the weight of 1 pellet of lead #6?
What is the weight of 1 pellet of Fed HW #7?
I'll do it for you:
.12910 grams and .130 grams...
Like I said believe what you want, but does not make it right. That is all I am going to say.
Hope you kill a bunch with your beloved LBs!
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Quote from: davisd9 on February 24, 2014, 11:20:23 AM
Like I said believe what you want, but does not make it right. That is all I am going to say.
Hope you kill a bunch with your beloved LBs!
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I think you have weight and density confused....
Whether it is weight or density the two do not compare. The HWs are going to penetrate and hit harder. The lead will have give against bone because of its softness where the HWs will not.
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Oldgobbler even has a pellet count and pellet weight FAQ on pellet counts/weights.
Quote from: davisd9 on February 24, 2014, 11:27:06 AM
Whether it is weight or density the two do not compare. The HWs are going to penetrate and hit harder. The lead will have give against bone because of its softness where the HWs will not.
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I didn't argue that. I stated pellet weight and you said I was wrong.
Good for you and if that is what makes you laugh like that you have sad life. Chuckle all you want. I will laugh a good bit myself as I wait for harvest pictures from you.
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K
Sorry to anyone who read this thread. OG has gotten to the point where posting indisputable facts (pellet weight) causes an argument.
OP, I'll take that last post means your thread is no longer high jacked.
Carry on
My god, they'll both kill at 40 yards won't they? Then I don't understand what all this fuss is about.
Quote from: Xcal1ber on February 24, 2014, 08:20:12 PM
My god, they'll both kill at 40 yards won't they? Then I don't understand what all this fuss is about.
Yes they both will. You can shoot cheap or high dollar and kill birds. Then you can bump your head and shoot HIGH DOLLAR tss.
Quote from: decoykrvr on February 24, 2014, 10:38:27 AMMy only diconcerting observation on the XR's, and I only patterened them at 40 yards, was that the wads were all recovered approximately 18 yards from my shooting position which is indicative of an extremely tight close pattern.
I wouldn't worry about that one bit. I've had Federal FC wads hit my target at 30 yards and my patterns were never too tight to worry about. The wad should be hitting well behind the shot string.
I believe it's a very common misconception that a tight 30-40 pattern automatically means a "too tight" 20 yard pattern.
And another thing. LBs are just another way of throwing a lead pattern, or just another way of stacking lead into a shot shell.
Coming out of the barrel at 1200 fps they are still just your everyday lead shot, and lead shot has been dumping turkeys for quite some time now.
I just ordered 2 boxes of 5s to try out and I'm not concerning myself with testing penetration one bit. I KNOW what they will do already.
Quote from: Number17 on February 24, 2014, 11:19:42 PM
And another thing. LBs are just another way of throwing a lead pattern, or just another way of stacking lead into a shot shell.
Coming out of the barrel at 1200 fps they are still just your everyday lead shot, and lead shot has been dumping turkeys for quite some time now.
I just ordered 2 boxes of 5s to try out and I'm not concerning myself with testing penetration one bit. I KNOW what they will do already.
Smart man right here. Penetration into gelatin doesn't tell the whole story. Being smaller and more dense does allow TSS and Fed HW to penetrate the gel better if they have slightly less energy.
On a live turkey, we only have to penetrate about 1/4" of flesh before striking bone. A pellet with more energy at bone impact will do more damage, assuming not much of the energy goes into pellet deformation. Yes some energy is used up to deform the pellet, but #7 lead would kill any turkey walking at 40 yds. The number of pellets we're able to put in him at 40 yds is remarkable for a $2 shell.
Quote from: CASH on February 24, 2014, 11:47:13 AM
OP, I'll take that last post means your thread is no longer high jacked.
Carry on
LOL, just saw this since it was on page 1. I think you're correct, he finally quit talking about it.
As an "old" turkey hunter, I started hunting turkeys w/ lead 4's and eventually moved up to 5's. It wasn't until 1984, when I had a barrel sleeved by Mark Basner to .665 and the forcing cone lengthened that I was able to get a tight enough pattern to use 6's. My results w/ the Longbeard XR 6's has shown me that they are producing a shell w/ the potential to put numerous pellets in the head and neck to cleanly harvest turkeys at 40 yards. With this said, it is still a lead load and the energy of the pellets, esp. the 6's, falls off significantly past 40 yards. Unfortunately, alot of folks are going to read the slick marketing hype perpetrated by Winchester and assume that 60 yards is the new 40 yards with regard to "killing range".
Quote from: SumToy on February 24, 2014, 09:07:23 PM
Quote from: Xcal1ber on February 24, 2014, 08:20:12 PM
My god, they'll both kill at 40 yards won't they? Then I don't understand what all this fuss is about.
Yes they both will. You can shoot cheap or high dollar and kill birds. Then you can bump your head and shoot HIGH DOLLAR tss.
Or for the same amount as buying one of your chokes, you could buy enough TSS to load shells for 5 years of killing, shoot them out of the factory choke, and outperform any longbeard pattern out there...
Cheap shot Huntindawg...sum toy is always helpful on this site, doesn't push his products on here and I have actually seen him advise folks to use chokes other than his. He wasn't trashing anyone on here or making snide comments, he just poked a little fun at tss and you made it personal.
Quote from: huntindawg on February 25, 2014, 11:45:26 AM
Quote from: SumToy on February 24, 2014, 09:07:23 PM
Quote from: Xcal1ber on February 24, 2014, 08:20:12 PM
My god, they'll both kill at 40 yards won't they? Then I don't understand what all this fuss is about.
Yes they both will. You can shoot cheap or high dollar and kill birds. Then you can bump your head and shoot HIGH DOLLAR tss.
Or for the same amount as buying one of your chokes, you could buy enough TSS to load shells for 5 years of killing, shoot them out of the factory choke, and outperform any longbeard pattern out there...
I wouldn't have enough to hunt with for 5 years off of $65. What is tss going for $50 per pound. If I loaded 1.5 oz load(witch not many people do for 12ga.) that's not but 13 shells for $65 . If I shot just one shell to check for zero that leaves 12 left, then if I limit out at home , I hunt in Alabama and Mississippi since I live only about a mile from the state line. My limit is 8 birds, if I go to Kentucky and Kansas I might have enough but I would not go that far with only 4 shells. Don't get me wrong tss is some good stuff but by the time you spend the $$ for all the equipment to load you have well exceeded the price of a pile of shells that would take years to shoot. You also could buy any choke you wanted too. I know the true cost of loading your own shells. I have thousands invested in it between rifle and shotgun. Not to mention with the shortages in components we have now, even though its starting to get a little better now. Sumtoy has always between helpful to everyone on several of these forums..
Quote from: CrustyRusty on February 25, 2014, 01:29:45 PM
Cheap shot Huntindawg...sum toy is always helpful on this site, doesn't push his products on here and I have actually seen him advise folks to use chokes other than his. He wasn't trashing anyone on here or making snide comments, he just poked a little fun at tss and you made it personal.
Wasn't meant to be a cheap shot at all, I was just saying that you can spend roughly the same money on either a choke or shells and get the same results, doesn't mean anyone had to bump their head.
Quote from: decoykrvr on February 25, 2014, 11:09:34 AMUnfortunately, alot of folks are going to read the slick marketing hype perpetrated by Winchester and assume that 60 yards is the new 40 yards with regard to "killing range".
As a new turkey hunter, I hope us newbies will learn that shots shouldn't be taken passed 40 yards, in my opinion. I've been a duck hunter all my life and I hate seeing people taking unethical skybusting shots. My state allows you to kill a swan if you draw a tag. It kills me to see a wounded one on the lake. I hope I don't see wounded or unfound dead turkeys while I'm out hunting. I patterned my gun at 40 yards with the LongBeards and got a great pattern. But I gotta be right on to make a clean kill. Hopefully I'll get a closer and easier shot.
I think we are getting WAY, WAY, WAY to caught up in how far shot penetrates thru metal and into wood and the rock the target was next to, turkey's are made of skin and bone just like us and their bones are alot smaller. All we really need to be worried about is whether or not we are sending ENOUGH shot, regardless of the size, type and how many grams it weighs, at a turkeys head to break his neck on impact. When I started turkey hunting in the early 90's my mentor who was an old school hunter told me I needed to pattern my shotgun to make sure it sent an acceptable amount of shot down range into the head and neck to kill a gobbler. That was it, kill a gobbler! Granted lead may be softer than HTL but I bet at 1200 fps with an acceptable pattern turkeys will die all the live long day by copper plated lead, coated in resin or not. My 2 cents!
Quote from: trkehunr93 on February 25, 2014, 06:33:23 PM
I think we are getting WAY, WAY, WAY to caught up in how far shot penetrates thru metal and into wood and the rock the target was next to, turkey's are made of skin and bone just like us and their bones are alot smaller. All we really need to be worried about is whether or not we are sending ENOUGH shot, regardless of the size, type and how many grams it weighs, at a turkeys head to break his neck on impact. When I started turkey hunting in the early 90's my mentor who was an old school hunter told me I needed to pattern my shotgun to make sure it sent an acceptable amount of shot down range into the head and neck to kill a gobbler. That was it, kill a gobbler! Granted lead may be softer than HTL but I bet at 1200 fps with an acceptable pattern turkeys will die all the live long day by copper plated lead, coated in resin or not. My 2 cents!
Great post!
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that's why I shoot them with a slug :drool:
Quote from: davisd9 on February 24, 2014, 11:27:06 AM
Whether it is weight or density the two do not compare. The HWs are going to penetrate and hit harder. The lead will have give against bone because of its softness where the HWs will not.
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You got it!!! Lead flattens on impact causing less penetration... Simple physics...
:TrainWreck1:
Quote from: tyelper on February 25, 2014, 07:40:53 PM
that's why I shoot them with a slug :drool:
I have had them deform too !!!!
I haven't seen anything penetrate like the Magnum Blends
I don't understand what's happened,back in the "day" when I started out turkey hunting,I shot 3" #4's at one time or another I moved up to a 3.5",again #4's.
Later on I moved to #5's and have basically been there ever since
All I ever remember reading or hearing back years ago was 3-6 pellets in the vitals was all it took to harvest a bird,and god knows once I fumbled around and half way figured out what I was doing,I killed alot of birds with that lead shot that people seems to think bounces off of turkeys now.
All I know is #4's and 5's will roll them if you do your part.
People always want better and want improvement. Technology has made things better and people use technology.
Back in the day people walked to town, rode a bike or a horse and then some dude came up with a car. From what I can tell cars have been modified and improved upon too. I don't know many people that want to go back to a 70hp 4cyl in a 5500lb car, but if you do it's your buisness and I hope it works for you.
Do you big game hunt with a smooth bore blunderbuss? The pilgrims used them back in the day, that's all you really need. Ammo is easy to find just pick up a handful of junk in the woods and get close.
Steel broadheads are for sissy boys. Knapping out flint is where it's at.......
I'm not arguing with you I'm just stating the obvious. I like traditional stuff, I like old school stuff, I also like for my stuff to preform the best it can.
I do not understand the negativity towards using the best you can to save $20 over the course of a hunting season. I shoot both hevi and lead.
BTW, come on turkey season, every year about this time we get cranky and start arguing about crap that does not matter.
When turkey season gets here we will get cranky and complain about weather/no gobbling/weather/missing a bird/weather/no sleep/weather/over sleeping/weather, you know, stuff that matters. LOL
Yea I've got jelly head choke , IC choke, box's of 3.5" mag blend, 3" mag blend and multiple box's of Hevi 13 5's, 6's in 3" and 3.5"... And still shot Win HV #5's out of most of my turkey guns lol
Quote from: trkehunr93 on February 25, 2014, 06:33:23 PM
I think we are getting WAY, WAY, WAY to caught up in how far shot penetrates thru metal and into wood and the rock the target was next to, turkey's are made of skin and bone just like us and their bones are alot smaller. All we really need to be worried about is whether or not we are sending ENOUGH shot, regardless of the size, type and how many grams it weighs, at a turkeys head to break his neck on impact. When I started turkey hunting in the early 90's my mentor who was an old school hunter told me I needed to pattern my shotgun to make sure it sent an acceptable amount of shot down range into the head and neck to kill a gobbler. That was it, kill a gobbler! Granted lead may be softer than HTL but I bet at 1200 fps with an acceptable pattern turkeys will die all the live long day by copper plated lead, coated in resin or not. My 2 cents!
Exactly....last turkey I shot wasn't made metal or wood.
Quote from: Tom Foolery on March 02, 2014, 09:44:12 AM
People always want better and want improvement. Technology has made things better and people use technology.
Back in the day people walked to town, rode a bike or a horse and then some dude came up with a car. From what I can tell cars have been modified and improved upon too. I don't know many people that want to go back to a 70hp 4cyl in a 5500lb car, but if you do it's your buisness and I hope it works for you.
Do you big game hunt with a smooth bore blunderbuss? The pilgrims used them back in the day, that's all you really need. Ammo is easy to find just pick up a handful of junk in the woods and get close.
Steel broadheads are for sissy boys. Knapping out flint is where it's at.......
I'm not arguing with you I'm just stating the obvious. I like traditional stuff, I like old school stuff, I also like for my stuff to preform the best it can.
I do not understand the negativity towards using the best you can to save $20 over the course of a hunting season. I shoot both hevi and lead.
I only hunt two states a year and get a total of three tags. This means I normally use 5 shells over the course of a season, that's on the high side but will work. The shells I shoot are $10 a shell so I spend $50 a season in shells. I could shoot lead at $2 a shell and that would save me $40.
I will gladly spend an extra $40 a year to shoot the best I can and know that if I make a mistake the shells I'm shooting may help bail me out. I could buy the $60 car seat for my son too but I will stick with the $180 one because it has more features that could save his life in the event of an accident.
Long story short when it's comes to things I care about I will spend the additional money to get the best because I can. Do I expect everyone to do this, absolutely not, and I will never tell someone that shooting lead or buying the cheap car seat is a bad thing to do. To each their own.
Now that's a good post Gobble.. Well done sir
Quote from: Gobble! on March 02, 2014, 12:28:27 PM
Quote from: Tom Foolery on March 02, 2014, 09:44:12 AM
People always want better and want improvement. Technology has made things better and people use technology.
Back in the day people walked to town, rode a bike or a horse and then some dude came up with a car. From what I can tell cars have been modified and improved upon too. I don't know many people that want to go back to a 70hp 4cyl in a 5500lb car, but if you do it's your buisness and I hope it works for you.
Do you big game hunt with a smooth bore blunderbuss? The pilgrims used them back in the day, that's all you really need. Ammo is easy to find just pick up a handful of junk in the woods and get close.
Steel broadheads are for sissy boys. Knapping out flint is where it's at.......
I'm not arguing with you I'm just stating the obvious. I like traditional stuff, I like old school stuff, I also like for my stuff to preform the best it can.
I do not understand the negativity towards using the best you can to save $20 over the course of a hunting season. I shoot both hevi and lead.
I only hunt two states a year and get a total of three tags. This means I normally use 5 shells over the course of a season, that's on the high side but will work. The shells I shoot are $10 a shell so I spend $50 a season in shells. I could shoot lead at $2 a shell and that would save me $40.
I will gladly spend an extra $40 a year to shoot the best I can and know that if I make a mistake the shells I'm shooting may help bail me out. I could buy the $60 car seat for my son too but I will stick with the $180 one because it has more features that could save his life in the event of an accident.
Long story short when it's comes to things I care about I will spend the additional money to get the best because I can. Do I expect everyone to do this, absolutely not, and I will never tell someone that shooting lead or buying the cheap car seat is a bad thing to do. To each their own.
We have a winner!
I shoot Hevi-13 #7's out of both my rigs. When I can get patterns like this with 300325 out of my Star Dot .676 in my 835, no lead load is gonna make me shoot them regardless of how they shoot.
Need I say more!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/brad541thb/DSCF5017_zpsa5ecabc0.jpg)
And yes I have repeated that pattern. Now do I need that great of pattern? Nope. But I want it because I know I can.
I'll second ILIKEHEVI-13's post with this. :toothy9:
And this...
Thanks. And tremendous pattern there as well.
I'll even turn that pattern above over so you guys can see the 10".
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/brad541thb/DSCF2946Medium.jpg)
This one ain't too shabby either.
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/526/medium/DSCF0056_Small_.jpg)
Or this.
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/526/DSCF00593.jpg)
I'll settle this!!! Lol
There's kills from mag blend, lead, and even some old shorty remington duplex. Order of kill is left to right by the way. This year I hope to start a new board for beards and the first one is gonna be attempted with a longbeard shell. I bet it holds a beard just like the others
LOL
The best beards appear to be with magblend hulls. :toothy9:
I guess that means Hevi-13 wins. :z-winnersmiley:
Lol! Maybe I should spray paint the LB shells gold. Both patterned well from my guns so I figure save money and get more. I could care less what anyone claims their shell will do at longer ranges. The hunt for me is getting them close. That long beard in the duplex shell was killed at 7 foot out a browning full choke a5.
I have killed with lead and hevi. These are the ones that I have on my phone and see if you can tell me which were killed with what. I shoot hevi now because with all the time and resources I have put in to hunting I am not concerned with a few dollars on a shell. Another reason is I do not like to run to a bird and wait for him to stop flopping. Having said that lead kills fine and a few of these birds prove that. Shoot what you want just be ethical about knowing your limits and sticking to them.
I can care less how many hole I can put in a piece of paper. I check my gun so that I know it's ethical range and can have confidence in it. Holes is paper does not impress me. Birds on the ground does!
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/03/zu7ese6a.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/03/ypa6apus.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/03/3anedaba.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/03/mabusa4a.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/03/3upedare.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/03/y8ygujed.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/03/8u9etema.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/03/u3u7amyz.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/03/ana2yqyt.jpg)
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Quote from: turkey buster on March 02, 2014, 07:09:51 PM
Lol! That long beard in the duplex shell was killed at 7 foot out a browning full choke a5.
LOL Oh come on now, that duplex shell will reach out further than that, i know it is lead but they have some 4's in them :TooFunny: let em walk out a bit before the shot :lol:
Thanks for the pics David :thanks: Wow green stuff
Nice turkeys David.
But to my offense I have killed way more paper than I have turkeys. So holes on paper impresses the heck out of me. :funnyturkey:
And I'm usually a guinea pig to buy a choke for those that are wanting to know how it does.
Quote from: ILIKEHEVI-13 on March 02, 2014, 09:43:28 PM
Nice turkeys David.
But to my offense I have killed way more paper than I have turkeys. So holes on paper impresses the heck out of me. :funnyturkey:
And I'm usually a guinea pig to buy a choke for those that are wanting to know how it does.
Nothing wrong with that bud. It is fun to punch paper but I much prefer punching heads!
You share a lot of valuable information that helps a lot of people!
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I appreciate that David.
I'm getting older though so my best years are behind me.
Fella's , I've been hunting turkeys for 26 or 27 years, I learn something every time I go to the woods, I' killed somewhere between 50 and 60 longbeard, pattern your gun, practice your calling and woodsmanship and learn to be patient but most of all know the limits of your equipment and Hunt! I don't care what anyone uses as long as you are ethical and respect our quarry it deserves that. I personally wouldn't want to be shot with any of the turkey loads on the market because at reasonable ranges they are going to penetrate and break bones with either HTL or lead. I have killed turkey with both and I shoot Hevi # 7 and will continue to do so because I have a large stash of it but I also would not hesitate to go to Wal-Mart and pick up a box of Winchester hv 5's or # 6 if I had to because i know how they shoot in my guns, We are in the good ol days of Turkey hunting RIGHT NOW!!!!!! LETS ENJOY THIS GRAND SPORT!!!! Lets help each other with problems, and enjoy a sport the good Lord allows us to do. I hope everyone fills there tags and takes a kid hunting in the respective juvenile seasons in there state and help preserve the grandest bird we are given to hunt
Chipper,
I'm glad somebody said it. :icon_thumright:
Quote from: chipper on March 03, 2014, 07:56:08 AM
Fella's , I've been hunting turkeys for 26 or 27 years, I learn something every time I go to the woods, I' killed somewhere between 50 and 60 longbeard, pattern your gun, practice your calling and woodsmanship and learn to be patient but most of all know the limits of your equipment and Hunt! I don't care what anyone uses as long as you are ethical and respect our quarry it deserves that. I personally wouldn't want to be shot with any of the turkey loads on the market because at reasonable ranges they are going to penetrate and break bones with either HTL or lead. I have killed turkey with both and I shoot Hevi # 7 and will continue to do so because I have a large stash of it but I also would not hesitate to go to Wal-Mart and pick up a box of Winchester hv 5's or # 6 if I had to because i know how they shoot in my guns, We are in the good ol days of Turkey hunting RIGHT NOW!!!!!! LETS ENJOY THIS GRAND SPORT!!!! Lets help each other with problems, and enjoy a sport the good Lord allows us to do. I hope everyone fills there tags and takes a kid hunting in the respective juvenile seasons in there state and help preserve the grandest bird we are given to hunt
:you_rock: Rock on! Duck hunting the past 3 years has changed into arguing over which equipment is better and why. A lot think the most expensive on the market is the ONLY way. It was refreshing getting positive feedback on this site from some about my inflatable turkey decoys, Max4 Stoeger M3500, and my new inexpensive choke tube. I'd love to keep this attitude in the turkey community.
I bought 3 or 4 of those cheap inflatable dekes a few years ago at Wal-Mart, I liked them because they would move in a light breeze when field hunting and killed a few gobblers with them, 3 years ago I had 2 of the decoys set up in a logging road and had a gobbler sneak in from behind me and to my right, never made a sound, then he tried to rape one of my dekes, at the shot he lay dead but I also killed both dekes with the pattern.
Quote from: JuniorPre 360 on March 11, 2014, 01:38:36 PM
Quote from: chipper on March 03, 2014, 07:56:08 AM
Fella's , I've been hunting turkeys for 26 or 27 years, I learn something every time I go to the woods, I' killed somewhere between 50 and 60 longbeard, pattern your gun, practice your calling and woodsmanship and learn to be patient but most of all know the limits of your equipment and Hunt! I don't care what anyone uses as long as you are ethical and respect our quarry it deserves that. I personally wouldn't want to be shot with any of the turkey loads on the market because at reasonable ranges they are going to penetrate and break bones with either HTL or lead. I have killed turkey with both and I shoot Hevi # 7 and will continue to do so because I have a large stash of it but I also would not hesitate to go to Wal-Mart and pick up a box of Winchester hv 5's or # 6 if I had to because i know how they shoot in my guns, We are in the good ol days of Turkey hunting RIGHT NOW!!!!!! LETS ENJOY THIS GRAND SPORT!!!! Lets help each other with problems, and enjoy a sport the good Lord allows us to do. I hope everyone fills there tags and takes a kid hunting in the respective juvenile seasons in there state and help preserve the grandest bird we are given to hunt
:you_rock: Rock on! Duck hunting the past 3 years has changed into arguing over which equipment is better and why. A lot think the most expensive on the market is the ONLY way. It was refreshing getting positive feedback on this site from some about my inflatable turkey decoys, Max4 Stoeger M3500, and my new inexpensive choke tube. I'd love to keep this attitude in the turkey community.
You both said it quite well !!
I observed something about 5 years ago on water fowling websites and was fearful the same trend would take hold on OG - there was a max influx of equipment geeks ,( were talking folks with plenty of money , little actual hunting experience, and even less common sense ) who were utterly obsessed with extending , and extending the range of a shotgun -- it was ridiculous - worst part was they were openly badgering and harassing people with decades of successful hunting ---
Turkey hunting is a skill orientated activity , not some technical accomplishment like doing a moon launch -- I have several very nice turkey guns , tricked out with good chokes and ammo - but like mentioned , I wouldn't loose any sleep if they stopped making premium turkey shells , I would do what chipper would do and go pick up a box at Wally World and be done with it
Nothing wrong with having a very good turkey gun , but for those that's think that alone will be the key to successful turkey hunting , well ...... There is a learning experience in store for those people
Quote from: Old Gobbler on March 12, 2014, 08:13:57 AM
Quote from: JuniorPre 360 on March 11, 2014, 01:38:36 PM
Quote from: chipper on March 03, 2014, 07:56:08 AM
Fella's , I've been hunting turkeys for 26 or 27 years, I learn something every time I go to the woods, I' killed somewhere between 50 and 60 longbeard, pattern your gun, practice your calling and woodsmanship and learn to be patient but most of all know the limits of your equipment and Hunt! I don't care what anyone uses as long as you are ethical and respect our quarry it deserves that. I personally wouldn't want to be shot with any of the turkey loads on the market because at reasonable ranges they are going to penetrate and break bones with either HTL or lead. I have killed turkey with both and I shoot Hevi # 7 and will continue to do so because I have a large stash of it but I also would not hesitate to go to Wal-Mart and pick up a box of Winchester hv 5's or # 6 if I had to because i know how they shoot in my guns, We are in the good ol days of Turkey hunting RIGHT NOW!!!!!! LETS ENJOY THIS GRAND SPORT!!!! Lets help each other with problems, and enjoy a sport the good Lord allows us to do. I hope everyone fills there tags and takes a kid hunting in the respective juvenile seasons in there state and help preserve the grandest bird we are given to hunt
:you_rock: Rock on! Duck hunting the past 3 years has changed into arguing over which equipment is better and why. A lot think the most expensive on the market is the ONLY way. It was refreshing getting positive feedback on this site from some about my inflatable turkey decoys, Max4 Stoeger M3500, and my new inexpensive choke tube. I'd love to keep this attitude in the turkey community.
You both said it quite well !!
I observed something about 5 years ago on water fowling websites and was fearful the same trend would take hold on OG - there was a max influx of equipment geeks ,( were talking folks with plenty of money , little actual hunting experience, and even less common sense ) who were utterly obsessed with extending , and extending the range of a shotgun -- it was ridiculous - worst part was they were openly badgering and harassing people with decades of successful hunting ---
Turkey hunting is a skill orientated activity , not some technical accomplishment like doing a moon launch -- I have several very nice turkey guns , tricked out with good chokes and ammo - but like mentioned , I wouldn't loose any sleep if they stopped making premium turkey shells , I would do what chipper would do and go pick up a box at Wally World and be done with it
Nothing wrong with having a very good turkey gun , but for those that's think that alone will be the key to successful turkey hunting , well ...... There is a learning experience in store for those people
Amen to all the above. reflexl
I started turkey hunting as a kid with my grandfather in the 60s, all we had then was high brass #4s, I learned to be patient, sit still and most of all enjoy what nature has given us, so while I now use much of what modern technology has given us I still just enjoy the hunt. Killing a wise old bird is just icing on the cake.
And shells like the Magnum Blends just make it easier to get that wise old bird
Quote from: Pressured Gobbler on February 28, 2014, 12:12:17 PM
Quote from: davisd9 on February 24, 2014, 11:27:06 AM
Whether it is weight or density the two do not compare. The HWs are going to penetrate and hit harder. The lead will have give against bone because of its softness where the HWs will not.
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less penetration means more shocking power on impact. that's what breaks bones. Sort of like getting wacked with a sledge rather then an ice pick. Either way there is a bird lying in the grass.
You got it!!! Lead flattens on impact causing less penetration... Simple physics...
before hevi shot came out im really wondering how people killed turkeys and actually I cant remember seeing it but there may have been a bunch of turkeys with one leg or one eye or couldn't fly or beak blown off ...etc...just don't remember seeing a bunch of wounded birds but I do got some pics of my pap with a bird and a old shotgun and some old little shells hmmm imagine that
I was patterning the 10 yesterday and witnessed something that blew my mind. I have a 1" white pvc frame I just built as a target holder and the lead 4s I shot left splash marks on the pvc but did not dent it or penetrate it. This was at 40 yards. The shells were rem 2.25 4s and win 2oz 4s. Don't know if that means anything except pvc is tougher than I thought it would be!