So my lovely wife gave me a subscription to Outdoor Life magazine as a Christmas present last year and so far it hasn't been all that bad. If I'm not mistaken it is the same publisher as Field and Stream. Well I receive the January edition yesterday and wouldn't you know it, one if the advertised articles on the cover is, "New turkey load to pound birds beyond 50 yards."
The load the teaser is referring to is the winchester long beard and the genius that wrote the article felt the need to illustrate that he was able to get 56 pellets in a 10" circle at 70 yards shooting 3" #6 and got 1-3/4" penetration into ballistics gel.
He also states in the last paragraph of the write up, "Winchester isn't advocating for every turkey hunter to start killing birds at 70 yards. Each hunter must determine his own ethical and effective killing range. With the new Long Beard round, Winchester is simply giving you the option to extend that range."
So, how many people do you think will take marginal shots at this distance because Mr. Alex Robinson said this load could do it?
I'm glad someone is writing articles about new products but does write ups like this hurt or help the sport?
Quote from: Shellwaster on January 15, 2014, 06:29:26 PM
So, how many people do you think will take marginal shots at this distance because Mr. Alex Robinson said this load could do it?
Very few, only because most of those idiots are going to take the shot no matter what Mr. Alex Robinson say's.
Quote from: guesswho on January 15, 2014, 06:40:03 PM
Quote from: Shellwaster on January 15, 2014, 06:29:26 PM
So, how many people do you think will take marginal shots at this distance because Mr. Alex Robinson said this load could do it?
Very few, only because most of those idiots are going to take the shot no matter what Mr. Alex Robinson say's.
:agreed: Read the article also last night and showed it to a guy at work (who also believes you don't even need to pattern your gun) and his immediate response was that hes going to buy at least six boxes. We argued for a while about ethics and preparation and even after I mentioned his miss last year when he shot at 53 yds, this idiot still believes that he can shoot that far with these rounds because ODL says so. Then he wonders why I take other coworkers out and not him....
As ethical harvesters of game, all we can do is educate those who will listen. Those who fail to take heed will have to live with their shortcomings.
Gman
Quote from: guesswho on January 15, 2014, 06:40:03 PM
Quote from: Shellwaster on January 15, 2014, 06:29:26 PM
So, how many people do you think will take marginal shots at this distance because Mr. Alex Robinson said this load could do it?
Very few, only because most of those idiots are going to take the shot no matter what Mr. Alex Robinson say's.
I agree guesswho!
Saw the same thing on the Drurys show the other day.Shot a 60 yd target then showed the results then Mark Drury pipes off "thats an 80 yd gun!".Great.How many boneheads will see that and think anything inside 75 is in the fryin pan.
I can understand 40 and maaaaayyyyybe 50 in the right hands with a tested setup,but c'mon 80?Whatever happened to callin em in close enough to see their eyelashes?
Those new Winchester loads are way overrated , they shoot about as tight as a standard premium turkey shells BUT they are lead .... With much less knockdown , and on top of that ....there is allegations that it shoots significantly slower than what is advertised - until someone chronographs them we won't know the truth , but I have heard they clock in at 1125 fps not 1200 - just what I heard , not saying it's true
What is true is that for years Winchester publicized that 2.6 foot pounds of KE -is what was needed to kill a gobbler with a shot shell pellet ...... Winchester is contradicting their own research , research that indicates what everyone knows that a lead #6 at 1200 fps runs right out of gas just before 40 yards at 2.3 foot pounds - the #4 loads shoots too low in #s and would be near worthless in pellet density and distribution past 45 yards that's for darn sure - so where do they get off publicizing 66 yard shots ?
They are a perhaps a half decent 40 yard shell , but they are way off base letting some of that advertising hit the public like that , very irresponsible
Though it's appealing hearing all the #'s I am content using htl. It's still lead--susceptible to deformation and quicker energy loss. I will take my oblong pellets that won't deform and will cause greater tissue damage anyday. I am still a 40 yard shooter but I just like having a little insurance if off by a few yards.
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There are people who believe the "experts" because they wright for a magazine or are on tv. You can't change that, just like you can't change the guy who has always shot #4 lead because it's bigger even though the proof is there that the sheer numbers of HTL #6 will out range it. In short you cant exchange ignorance if someone is happy & stubborn. I just go on and let them be.
Quote from: Gooserbat on January 16, 2014, 06:10:12 PMIn short you cant exchange ignorance if someone is happy & stubborn. I just go on and let them be.
Truest words i've heard spoken in a long time......
It's really up to us to promote ethical hunting through all we say and do. Many hunters visit this site and read what we have to say. They look at the targets that are posted and many will accept them as "gospel" because they have faith in what we do.
We must be responsible stewards of what has been provided for us and act accordingly.
Thanks,
Clark
This is a big problem.
Turkey hunting is a close contact sport. Call them in close, and dispatch them quickly and humanely.
Taking a pot shot at a bird at 50 plus yards because Winchester says this lead shell will do it is such a bad idea. All this new packaging does, is hold the pattern tighter at 40, not making lead any more lethal past 40.
Lead is still lead.
I wonder if they plan on encasing buckshot in resin for next year and claim 200 yard shogun range on deer?
I honestly believe that this will turn out to be a 35 yds. and under nightmare from some of the patterns I have seen. It just holds too tight for me at 30 yards but I'll see if a more open choke will work on close shots.
And, if they are under 35 yards then their other shell does the trick for me. This shell will return some interesting
reports before its all said and done for sure. IMO.
Now for those really open plains states and large fields/openings it may just be the ticket if it doesn't get too close.
My sons JAKES magazine came today and the entire back cover ad was:
"66 YDS"....."I shot this turkey at 66 yds with
the new Winchester LONG BEARD blah,blah,blah,etc"-Mark Drury
Real nice.Now every kid and/or adult is gonna think this can be them.
MAD, ugh!
marketing, marketing, marketing
Quote from: jakesdad on January 17, 2014, 02:39:13 PM
My sons JAKES magazine came today and the entire back cover ad was:
"66 YDS"....."I shot this turkey at 66 yds with
the new Winchester LONG BEARD blah,blah,blah,etc"-Mark Drury
Real nice.Now every kid and/or adult is gonna think this can be them.
I agree. I wonder how much money it takes for a man to sell his soul.
Drury knows better.
Quote from: chatterbox on January 18, 2014, 08:00:25 AM
Quote from: jakesdad on January 17, 2014, 02:39:13 PM
My sons JAKES magazine came today and the entire back cover ad was:
"66 YDS"....."I shot this turkey at 66 yds with
the new Winchester LONG BEARD blah,blah,blah,etc"-Mark Drury
Real nice.Now every kid and/or adult is gonna think this can be them.
I agree. I wonder how much money it takes for a man to sell his soul.
Drury knows better.
I know it takes about $7,000 -20,000for someone to sell a page in a small publication like that to a advertiser - I could care less about what some fabricated tv persona is doing with themselves or their so called pro-endorsements - but this time ...... This went quite a bit further - to the eyes of the general public they will eat this stuff up bait, line and sinker ..... The product will sell with its outlandish advertisement campaign that will surely sell many thousands of cases of this overrated product to all market segments of the turkey hunting market
What will take place in the future ? Will the product continue to have repeat purchases ? Will it gain a product notoriety ? Will the other ammo companies answer back with similar or repackaged products with similar outlandish and irresponsible add campaigns ? My best prediction is that Winchester will continue to sell this for at least 5 + years , and push it hard , just like they are currently doing with their hex shot waterfowl loads , they made a initial investment by paying a so called celebrity to endorse it , paid for TV time on the hunting shows, bribed all the magazines to have their shooting editors do favorable reviews of the product .... Oh by the way there so happens to be a full page ad in said publication - and it looks like they bullied or bought their way into many other publications , I'm sure some of editors had their reservations on the over the top product performance claims , let's hope this isn't a repeat event in the future
Personally, and this is just my opinion, I will boycott that shell.
I think what Winchester and their marketing people are doing is a crime, and paying off TV personalities who have no problem endorsing long range shooting with lead while getting their pockets lined by Winchester, are just as guilty as Winchester itself.
Winchester had an awesome shell in their extended range, and are now using smoke and mirrors to try to get the public to believe they have magically recreated the wheel with a lead load.
You can put lipstick on a pig, but at the end of the day, you still have a pig.
Its stuff like this that makes me sometimes(at the ripe old age of 42)consider myself an "old timer".EVERYTHING in the world(not just the outdoor industry)has to be latest and greatest to work.Yes I do shot Hevi-shot in my 20 sometimes.Would not pout or through a fit or feel like less of a hunter if lead was all I had and could never shoot a turkey over 30-35 yds.
I agree to a point technology is a fine thing,but its gotten to the point now of just plain irresponsibility and flat out ridicoulous.Nobody wants to have to work to acheive success anymore.Heaven forbid you call a turkey and he hangs up at 50 yds and ya have to hunt him again.Instead of trying to improve our skill we instead want to blast his waddles at 60+ yds.Bowhunting is a prime example of this very thing.Guy with the fastest bow and can part a gnats hair at 75 yds is the "guru".Thats why I bought a recurve and wont shoot past 20,I want to be part of the hunt,not an distanced observer.
I for one feel sorry for the future participants of hunting if this is how the trend continues.Hunting is supposed to be up close and personal,not a shooting match.And while I understand companies need to make $$ to stay afloat,the crossing of the ethics line has gotten way out of hand.Will I begrudge anyone for building a 50 yd turkey gun that is PROVEN to be ethical in shot pattern and killing power....NO.But we as I collective group,IMO,need to get back to the basics of what makes this a great sport,not technology ourselves to death.
I for one would like to see a company like Winchester reintroduce a "out dated" tried and true LEAD turkey load that says "Same old lead,same old dead" right on the box, as opposed to what they come up with now days and the outrageous claims they make.
Sorry for the rant,just my .02 :character0029:
Leave it to the media to totally F up something! What's that say about there own childish ethics? Who in their right mind would try that? I don't know how much KE it takes to break a gobblers neck but doubt that a #6 pellet would have it at 80 yards like terry and mark talk about on tv!
I was going to buy a box just to test. I shoot lead a lot of the time, but I don't think I'm going to buy a box and support this crap.
Quote from: Kylongspur88 on January 18, 2014, 10:10:32 PM
I was going to buy a box just to test. I shoot lead a lot of the time, but I don't think I'm going to buy a box and support this crap.
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