We all have a couple of favorite strikers that we that we reach for while running calls, because they play the best on any given call, and we can do any call on the call with them. Why is that? We own many strikers made of different woods, so why are those couple so much better? The answer to that is the Weight of the Striker, dencity of the wood has nothing to do with it, yes it creates a different tone as does the different kinds of wood does, but it's all on the weight of the striker that fits your playing style, some strikers sound real high pitched and some have a flat dead sound to them. If you took ten different kinds of wood and turned them on a duplicator, so all ten strikers where the exactly the same size, length, and shape, you'd only find a couple that played good, because of the different weights of the woods. It's the same as asking which weighs more a pound of lead or a pound of feathers? they both weigh exactly the same, but the size of the pile is quite different.
So if your turning strikers for sales, then you need to pay attention to the weights of the woods your using in order to make a striker that will play on any call you play it on. Your diameter of the striker has to change accordingly to the weight of the woods your using, some may be thinner and some may be a lot thicker on the weighted end of the striker. Even though you have a style of striker that's all your own it still has to be different in size because of the wood weight differences.
Here are a few different woods, all cut exactly the same size, as you can see they all don't weigh the same. Lets say you make a purpleheart (.07) striker that just rocks, but a customer asks for a striker made of walnut (.04) the top end of the walnut striker would have to be almost twice the diameter of the purpleheart striker in order for it to sound right.
The woods I chose are Walnut, Shedua, Maple, Canary, Rosewood, Padauk, Yellowheart, Hickory, Granadillo, Bocote, Purpleheart. You can see the weight difference of each wood in oz.
These 4 strikers all weigh exactly the same, made of dymondwood,yellowheart, bloodwood, Birch laminate. But as you can see that each one has a bit of difference in the length and diameter of the ends, they all have a 4" peg, (they were getting sick of me at the post office weighing these until I had the within a gram of eachother :TooFunny:.
Same type of woods weigh different also (ex: one piece of maple cut the exact same size might weigh different). Other than say dymondwood, colorwood, or some type of laminate it would be hard to make each one weigh the same. I think some woods bite better on surfaces.
That is very true, you can cut two pieces of wood from the same board that weighs two diffrent weights, because of the dencity of each piece. The point I'm trying to make is that each different kind of wood weighs differently, so if all your strikers are made exactly the same, shape, size, some will play better that others because of the weight differences. You have to adjust that accordingly, so some of the strikers may be thinner and some may be thicker even though they are all the same design.
You also mentioned that some woods skip more that others, that is true also, but more times than not it's your lighter woods that will skip more than a heavy wood will. It also depends on what your using to clean your striker tips. If you took a green scrub pad and used it to clean a Blackwood striker, it would smooth the tip so bad that all the striker would do is slip, were if you used say 100 grit sandpaper on it would grab the surface a lot better and play right. That's why most call companies all use a two piece striker, because it's easier to control the weight of a striker, say a birch top all weighs about the same just the pegs weight is different and that still allows that striker to play on any given surface. Where if they sold a turned striker with each call they would be very limited to what woods they could use with all their strikers being turned on a duplicator, each different wood would have to be adjusted in order to make that striker play on different surfaces, time spent on doing that is $$$ spent and would raise the price of calls.
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Great food for thought for us callmakers.
:popcorn:
These are both a 4" purpleheart 5/16 peg size and the both weigh .7 oz. As you can see there is quite a difference in the diameter of the heavy end of the striker. One has a walnut end and the other has a purpleheart end, but the weight of these two are the same and they sound the same on any given surface. The walnut wood weighs a lot less so the diameter of it has to be a lot larger. If I would of turned the purpleheart end the same size as the walnut end, that striker wouldn't play worth a damn, it would be to heavy. That's why I'm saying that if you turne all your striker to the same shape and size, some would sound ok but most wouldn't. So lets say your favorite striker is the purpleheart striker and you wanted a striker made of walnut so you'd have a different sounding striker, if I tuned you a walnut striker it would have to be this size in order for it to sound any good, or you'd be sending it back because it sound crummy. With any Friction Call, weight is a very important part of it playing. No matter what call, pot calls, scratch boxes, box calls, push-pins, they all play by the weight of the striking surfaces.
Quote from: WillowRidgeCalls on August 22, 2013, 10:23:33 AM
Where if they sold a turned striker with each call they would be very limited to what woods they could use with all their strikers being turned on a duplicator, each different wood would have to be adjusted in order to make that striker play on different surfaces, time spent on doing that is $$$ spent and would raise the price of calls.
Scott, this is the very reason I try to play the striker on the calls before buying them. Not on the calls the call maker has setting out, but my calls.
I know that probably 70% or more of the weight is in the head. Do you think it is overall weight or head weight that is critical ?
Probably one of the absolute best strikers I've ever played and owned was the Knight & Hale "Black Magic" striker. Some where there is probably a bunch sitting in a warehouse.
You need to get a reloaders scale with the weights.
Mark
I'm leaning more towards the head weight being more critical, but it has a lot to do with the whole balanced weight of a striker. It's just like a Hammer, if you grab a hammer by the handle and pound a nail in, it would only take 5 hits, but if you grabbed the hammer by it head and tried to pound a nail in, it would take you 40 hits, even though you have the same weight of the hammer no matter how you pick it up.
ME AS A PLAYER > head weight being more critical < THIS IS WHAT I LIKE TO USE
SOUND AND CONTROL. :icon_thumright: :icon_thumright:
Pretty much my thoughts too. But, I also believe there does need to be a balance point and I don't think that it has to be so heavy that it feels cumbersome or awkward. Like I said about the Knight & Hale striker, that striker isn't very big or heavy but it is balanced out to a tee. I've got some that the head is so light on, I'm thinking about drilling them out and dropping me a buckshot down in there.
walnut sucks for strikers......jus' my .02 ......no matter what the weight....
only thing they are ok for is cluck and purr....the walnut strikers are use specific......I have competition callers ask for them for cluck and purr....for stage use in the friction division....
Rhotodendron is also call/use specific.....is makes a great KeeKee striker....but that is about it....
Quote from: mmclain on September 06, 2013, 10:08:00 PM
walnut sucks for strikers......jus' my .02 ......no matter what the weight....
only thing they are ok for is cluck and purr....the walnut strikers are use specific......I have competition callers ask for them for cluck and purr....for stage use in the friction division....
Rhotodendron is also call/use specific.....is makes a great KeeKee striker....but that is about it....
I don't like walnut strikers, they are call/use specific. they are 1 click away from balsa wood, I will not send one out with a call.
Gary
All these thoughts are solid, weight is the main factor. What I find however is how the weight is distributed. Being a archer I have checked the FOC of strikers the same as if a arrow shaft. The percentage of front of center weight runs close to the same on all the strikes that run consistant, no matter what the wood,shape,weight or size.
Quote from: mmclain on September 06, 2013, 10:08:00 PM
walnut sucks for strikers......jus' my .02 ......no matter what the weight....
only thing they are ok for is cluck and purr....the walnut strikers are use specific......I have competition callers ask for them for cluck and purr....for stage use in the friction division....
Rhotodendron is also call/use specific.....is makes a great KeeKee striker....but that is about it....
I agree! It makes a fine pot though!!!
Quote from: mmclain on September 06, 2013, 10:08:00 PM
walnut sucks for strikers......jus' my .02 ......no matter what the weight....
only thing they are ok for is cluck and purr....the walnut strikers are use specific......I have competition callers ask for them for cluck and purr....for stage use in the friction division....
Rhotodendron is also call/use specific.....is makes a great KeeKee striker....but that is about it....
I disagree with you, what your statement is telling me is that the weight balance distribution is way off on those strikers. Granted walnut may not be a sound you like, but your walnut strikers should be able to play the same as any of your strikers if the weight is correct, it may have to be larger or smaller in diameter to obtain that? That's why I started this post, because you
can't turn all your strikers to look exactly the same in shape and size with any type of wood and expect them to play the same as your favorite wood striker does. You have to adjust the size to get the center of balance to obtain a good sounding striker, no matter what woods your using. If you do that, your walnut strikers will yelp, cutt, keekee, put n purr the same as any of your strikers will. It's going against a 100 year old tradition, where at first everyone used a corn cob on a peg to play their calls, some woods played great and some didn't, because of the weight differences, those woods that play great where considered good woods for strikers, and those that didn't weren't. Now with being able to use all sorts of woods we have to adjust the weight differences according to what the wood weighs, and if you don't you'll end up with strikers/woods that suck.
Quote from: WillowRidgeCalls on September 09, 2013, 12:02:54 PM
Quote from: mmclain on September 06, 2013, 10:08:00 PM
walnut sucks for strikers......jus' my .02 ......no matter what the weight....
only thing they are ok for is cluck and purr....the walnut strikers are use specific......I have competition callers ask for them for cluck and purr....for stage use in the friction division....
Rhotodendron is also call/use specific.....is makes a great KeeKee striker....but that is about it....
I disagree with you, what your statement is telling me is that the weight balance distribution is way off on those strikers. Granted walnut may not be a sound you like, but your walnut strikers should be able to play the same as any of your strikers if the weight is correct, it may have to be larger or smaller in diameter to obtain that? That's why I started this post, because you can't turn all your strikers to look exactly the same in shape and size with any type of wood and expect them to play the same as your favorite wood striker does. You have to adjust the size to get the center of balance to obtain a good sounding striker, no matter what woods your using. If you do that, your walnut strikers will yelp, cutt, keekee, put n purr the same as any of your strikers will. It's going against a 100 year old tradition, where at first everyone used a corn cob on a peg to play their calls, some woods played great and some didn't, because of the weight differences, those woods that play great where considered good woods for strikers, and those that didn't weren't. Now with being able to use all sorts of woods we have to adjust the weight differences according to what the wood weighs, and if you don't you'll end up with strikers/woods that suck.
And I some what disagree with you Scott, once you get your walnut striker turned to the correct balance, diameter and length for it to play good on your slate call and you try it on another call, say a copper, aluminum, crystal, ect. it's got a 95% chance of sounding terrable and probably will. which makes that walnut or any walnut striker call specific. however you are correct all strikers have to have the diameter and balance correct to play good. I did not mention weight because i just haven't figured out how to weigh that thing before i cut it loose from the lathe.
Gary
I've not had a problem with the walnut playing on different surfaces, they will produse a good 3 note yelp on any surface, your high- medium- and raspy tone. Since I've been paying attention to the weights they are all playing good? I grade my strikers using 3 calls, a keekee, a put n purr, and a flydown cackle, if they won't do those calls they aren't much good.
What I first started with was just a teeter totter scale, I'd use a 12" rule and ballance it in the center, then put my small blocks on each end and move the heavier one up the ruler to where it ballanced, that gave you a rough idea of how much heavier the wood was. I use a walnut and purpleheart blocks and had to slide the purpleheart block up to almost 3" to get it to ballance, which told me that the purpleheart was almost twice as heavy and would be half the diameter of the walnut striker. It gives you a rough guess of the woods weight. Then I cut a bunch of the woods I wanted to use as strikers and took them to the post office and weighed them on a mail scale, that gave a better weight difference. Now I use a powder grain scale for reloading shells, that give me a very good idea of the different woods weight. You can scale all your different woods as long as you cut each piece the same size and weigh them. After I turned a striker if it plays great then I keep that striker as a pattern to scale my other strikers from if I'm turning that same wood. Weigh your woods before you ever turn them, that will tell you the difference in weights and what size blocks you can cut your wood too. Some may be 3/4 and some may be 1-1/8, but your finished strikers will all weigh about the same.
I just turn my strikers. If they sound good, they go out with a call. If they don't, they go in the burn pile.
I agree that weight/balance is important, but to say that it is the only factor that makes a difference in sound is a bit naive. I find that grain structure and density most definitely play a part in the difference in striker composition. As for walnut strikers, it depends on the grain and density of the wood. I have bought steamed walnut from Illinois that wasn't good for anything but kindling wood. I have some walnut that I air dried from here in AR that makes a great sounding striker for most surfaces.
Weight....length...diameter....material....color.....density.....finish....and the list goes on and on and on. Granted the whole weight thing Scott sounds good, but then I go back in time to look at strikers made by the Pioneers......even the little fellas used on a jet slate call, and what I see as a defining factor is materials used determined the quality of sound produced and each striker played better matched to the call not the call to the striker. I have used Walnut (air dried) for years, great on selected surfaces but like any kind of wood it has its ups and downs, no matter the weight, when it came to running it on different striking surfaces. The most porous surface the better it worked, the tighter the surface material the worst it would get. I may be old fashioned and hard headed, but to me a great combo is what works, if it doesn't chunk it and try again.
Quote from: stone road turkey calls on September 09, 2013, 04:02:00 PM
Quote from: WillowRidgeCalls on September 09, 2013, 12:02:54 PM
Quote from: mmclain on September 06, 2013, 10:08:00 PM
walnut sucks for strikers......jus' my .02 ......no matter what the weight....
only thing they are ok for is cluck and purr....the walnut strikers are use specific......I have competition callers ask for them for cluck and purr....for stage use in the friction division....
Rhotodendron is also call/use specific.....is makes a great KeeKee striker....but that is about it....
I disagree with you, what your statement is telling me is that the weight balance distribution is way off on those strikers. Granted walnut may not be a sound you like, but your walnut strikers should be able to play the same as any of your strikers if the weight is correct, it may have to be larger or smaller in diameter to obtain that? That's why I started this post, because you can't turn all your strikers to look exactly the same in shape and size with any type of wood and expect them to play the same as your favorite wood striker does. You have to adjust the size to get the center of balance to obtain a good sounding striker, no matter what woods your using. If you do that, your walnut strikers will yelp, cutt, keekee, put n purr the same as any of your strikers will. It's going against a 100 year old tradition, where at first everyone used a corn cob on a peg to play their calls, some woods played great and some didn't, because of the weight differences, those woods that play great where considered good woods for strikers, and those that didn't weren't. Now with being able to use all sorts of woods we have to adjust the weight differences according to what the wood weighs, and if you don't you'll end up with strikers/woods that suck.
And I some what disagree with you Scott, once you get your walnut striker turned to the correct balance, diameter and length for it to play good on your slate call and you try it on another call, say a copper, aluminum, crystal, ect. it's got a 95% chance of sounding terrable and probably will. which makes that walnut or any walnut striker call specific. however you are correct all strikers have to have the diameter and balance correct to play good. I did not mention weight because i just haven't figured out how to weigh that thing before i cut it loose from the lathe.
Gary
Did I say I turned my strikers the same diameter?.....it has to do with the grain of the wood....Balsa, linden, or palonia...is not going to work either......I don't care what you do to the walnut it will not play like black locust, macassar ebony, pink ivory, or any other tight grained dense wood period.........it makes a good pot call and great paddle for a box call....it is not worth the time on the lathe......unless you are doing call specific strikers.......
this quote implies theory......
"Granted walnut may not be a sound you like, but your walnut strikers
should be able to play the same as any of your strikers if the weight is correct, it may have to be larger or smaller in diameter to obtain that"
Theory is great but in reality it does not always work out when tested..
I understand what you are trying to say and I have tried your theory long ago and I'll agree it works most of the time but....all woods don't balance out so to speak
density and balance has a lot to do with making a good striker but the structure mother nature builds into the tree can't always be balanced out......matt
Quote from: lightsoutcalls on September 10, 2013, 08:21:53 PM
I just turn my strikers. If they sound good, they go out with a call. If they don't, they go in the burn pile.
I agree that weight/balance is important, but to say that it is the only factor that makes a difference in sound is a bit naive. I find that grain structure and density most definitely play a part in the difference in striker composition. As for walnut strikers, it depends on the grain and density of the wood. I have bought steamed walnut from Illinois that wasn't good for anything but kindling wood. I have some walnut that I air dried from here in AR that makes a great sounding striker for most surfaces.
I just turn my strikers. If they sound good, they go out with a call. If they don't, they go in the burn pile.
x 2 :icon_thumright: :z-winnersmiley:
what I see as a defining factor is materials used determined the quality of sound produced and each striker played better matched to the call not the call to the striker.
The information that the guys that are haviing problems with their strikers or are new to turning strikers are getting from this post is great. With our agreeing or disagreeing helps give them great info about strikers. I'm not saying what your saying is right or wrong, and no I'm not a big fan of walnut strikers either, I don't like the sound of them, but it is a popular wood that a lot of people use. You guys are right about the weight not being the only important part of a striker, but some turners make a great sounding striker of one wood and then try to make another out of a diferent wood the exact same shape and size as the great striker and it won't play worth a dang so they no longer want to use that wood, There is a lot more that goes into making a good striker than just the woods used.
weight will effect the striker, however their are many variables that will effect the performance of a striker. If you go through the hassle of making sure each of your strikers weigh exactly the same, you can still end up with a striker that still does not perform as well as another. When I make a striker
I am looking for diameter, balance, striker tip shape. I think these factors are most important with a striker.
Diameter and balance being very important. Getting the correct diameter for a particular wood will allow the striker to vibrate when playing. If you can't
feel that vibration in your fingers while running a call, you most likely are too thick with the diameter. A balanced striker is much easier to use. A top heavy
striker will make it feel awkward, and more difficult to make certain calls vs. a balanced striker. and lastly the tip shape....have you ever made a striker
that played really well, then turned the striker 1/4 turn or so in your fingers and it lost that good sound? one factor is the grain direction in the striker, which you can't do much about, and the other is the shape of your tip. If the tip is not consistent all the way around it will most likely sound differently
as you spin the striker around in your fingers. As far as wood density.....I'm sure it plays a role in overall sound, however I have messed around with
woods of many different densities for strikers and it's not high on my priority list when making a striker. I have made quite a few poplar strikers that
will sound just as good, if not better than some of my very dense exotics. I have a neighbor who is a big turkey hunter and can run a pot call as well as anyone I've ever heard, and I handed him a copper over glass with a handful of strikers to try out. he ran each one of the strikers on the call. Purpleheart, Hickory, Canarywood, Bubinga, Jatoba, Maple, Poplar. Each striker sounded slightly different and sounded well enough to call in a bird, however the Poplar
is the one that really made the call sing.
If you try to keep the striker dowel the same diameter in every striker, then the striker top will vary in size to achieve proper balance in different wood types. This is where the weight comes in to play. If you have 2 blanks of the same size, and one weighs more than the other, chances are that the heavier wood will have a smaller diameter striker top to achieve balance. This assuming that the striker length, and diameter of dowel are equal to one another.
So...yes total weight of the striker will have an effect, but if you balance each striker properly, I don't see a need to weigh each striker to keep them
exactly the same weight. I guess you can weigh the blanks before turning to give you an Idea of the head diameter needed to get close to the balance point your looking for, but I don't think your going to get it perfectly balanced without actually balancing it after it's turned.
When it's all said and done, and you think you have everything perfect and it still don't sound right? Trash can or firewood.......and many have seen one of those options over the years :) Some blanks no matter what you do will not play properly. I still get a couple out of a dozen strikers I turn that just don't cut it for me. The bottom line, turn it, play it, if it sounds good...keep it. If not.....try it on a few other calls before you scrap it.