Justice has been served !! :icon_thumright:
The death of Trayvon was a tragedy. The charges were political, the prosecution was a joke, and Obama lost.
I pray for cool heads in Florida. :cross2: :cross2: :cross2:
Quote from: longspur on July 14, 2013, 07:18:04 AM
The death of Trayvon was a tragedy. The charges were political, the prosecution was a joke, and Obama lost.
"The death of Trayvon was a tragedy"? Agree with you wholeheartedly. "The charges were political"? Yeah, probably. "The prosecution was a joke"? Yep, they screwed the pooch big time. "And Obama lost"? Sorry, but you got to be frickin' kidding me. Next thing you know he'll be to blame if you have runny sh*t after eating Mexican food. Unbeleiveable.
Quote from: slwayne on July 14, 2013, 07:53:07 PM
Quote from: longspur on July 14, 2013, 07:18:04 AM
The death of Trayvon was a tragedy. The charges were political, the prosecution was a joke, and Obama lost.
"The death of Trayvon was a tragedy"? Agree with you wholeheartedly. "The charges were political"? Yeah, probably. "The prosecution was a joke"? Yep, they screwed the pooch big time. "And Obama lost"? Sorry, but you got to be frickin' kidding me. Next thing you know he'll be to blame if you have runny sh*t after eating Mexican food. Unbeleiveable.
[/quote
So after the police department said there wasn't enough evidence and the DA said there wasn't enough evidence he didn't mouth off about it on natinal tv and send his thugs down there to make them file charges. I guess I missunderstood.
And the very people who are crying injustice, are the same people who were elated with the OJ Simpson verdict. And I'm a racist ::)
"So after the police department said there wasn't enough evidence and the DA said there wasn't enough evidence he didn't mouth off about it on natinal tv and send his thugs down there to make them file charges. I guess I missunderstood."
I'm not trying to get into any political argument about this. The verdict was the correct one based on all of the information available. But what is your factual basis for the above assertion? I have seen nothing reported anywhere that suggests that Obama had anything to do with the decision to prosecute Zimmerman. Perhaps I have missed something and would just like to know what it was that would make you make this statement?
Just couldn't figure why he would say his son would look like Trayvon instead of the other 5000 or so that are killed each year. And why Big Al would be involved and the NAACP after the state decided not to file charges. Unless its because the others were not shot by a "crazy a$$ cracker". Like I said, maybe I missunderstood. But I thought they all followed his lead when he spoke out. And help me out if I'm way off.
Certainly, it is not entirely out of the question that there was some pressure applied from "somewhere up the line" to file charges against Zimmerman. Personally, I just do not believe that it came from that far up the line.
It is not unusual in these types of cases for no charges to be filed until after an initial investigation. It happens all the time. I believe that is what happened here,...and it was no more, or less, sinister than that.
So why would his son look likeTrayvon and not any of the other thousands. When the King speaks the wolves fly into action. Or so it seems. Why did he say that?
Quote from: longspur on July 15, 2013, 03:33:38 PM
So why would his son look likeTrayvon and not any of the other thousands. When the King speaks the wolves fly into action. Or so it seems. Why did he say that?
I think we have to look at the entire commentary he made about the incident and not take a single sentence out of context. Here is his statement:
"Well, I'm the head of the executive branch, and the attorney general reports to me, so I've got to be careful about my statements to make sure that we're not impairing any investigation that's taking place right now.
But obviously, this is a tragedy. I can only imagine what these parents are going through. And when I think about this boy, I think about my own kids. And I think every parent in America should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this, and that everybody pulls together — federal, state and local — to figure out exactly how this tragedy happened.
So I'm glad that not only is the Justice Department looking into it, I understand now that the governor of the state of Florida has formed a task force to investigate what's taking place. I think all of us have to do some soul-searching to figure out how does something like this happen. And that means that examine the laws and the context for what happened, as well as the specifics of the incident.
But my main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon. And I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves, and that we're going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened."
Once again, I don't personally think the statement he made was anything controversial based on what took place in this specific incident. He was obviously making comments "off the cuff", not a prepared speech,...and anybody that speaks in public much knows that you sometimes make comments that you think are innocuous at the time, but afterwards you say to yourself,..."hmmm,...perhaps I should have said that differently,...or not at all".
At any rate, if someone wants to read something into the statement Obama made about this incident to infer that he was somehow taking sides in it, so be it. I just personally do not see that inference in his statement. Once again that is just my opinion.
AND LIFE STILL GOES ON
OK Gobblenut, good deal. Was there a sheriff fired or is that hearsay?
Quote from: guesswho on July 15, 2013, 10:09:45 AM
And the very people who are crying injustice, are the same people who were elated with the OJ Simpson verdict. And I'm a racist ::)
I said the same thing to my bosses today lol
I think Obama had more influence than you think. Of course Jackson, sharpton, black panthers and others had to add their fuel to the fire also. What I don't understand is why didn't he say anything about the 50 blacks that were shot down just in Chicago that week? Why couldn't they look like his son? TM was no more important than any of those except except he died by the hands of a white/hispanic. Didn't see any white crackers wanting to kill blacks if OJ was aquitted or threaten to riot. Racism only exists cause of certain races not letting it go and of course the media agging it on
I feel justice was served as far as the verdict.
Our 2nd Amendment rights have spoken !! Right after the verdict George Zimmerman was given his 9MM back to him !! :icon_thumright:
I live about 15 minutes from the Court house where the trial took place......luckily I do not have to drive by it all. Everything was pretty calm and collected around town, just a noticeable increase in cop traffic. Regarding the verdict and trial.....I could care less, the decision for him to be not guilty was based on evidence. Too many people forget that.
Quote from: vaturkey on July 15, 2013, 08:03:59 PM
Our 2nd Amendment rights have spoken !! Right after the verdict George Zimmerman was given his 9MM back to him !! :icon_thumright:
Thats good news. I figured they would keep that one, at least for a while.
Quote from: longspur on July 14, 2013, 07:18:04 AM
The death of Trayvon was a tragedy. The charges were political, the prosecution was a joke, and Obama lost.
x2
Quote from: turkey_slayer on July 15, 2013, 06:47:29 PM
I think ABM had more influence than you think. Of course Jackson, sharpton, black panthers and others had to add their fuel to the fire also. What I don't understand is why didn't he say anything about the 50 blacks that were shot down just in Chicago that week? Why couldn't they look like his son? TM was no more important than any of those except except he died by the hands of a white/hispanic. Didn't see any white crackers wanting to kill blacks if OJ was aquitted or threaten to riot. Racism only exists cause of certain races not letting it go and of course the media agging it on
I agree, totally. There are hundreds, and I mean hundreds, of black on black murders every week, in this country. Where are Jackson, Sharpton and the rest then. Seems the only people concerned about this is the immediate families of the dead. They shoot each other, every night, on the north side of Milwaukee. It has become so common place that the news treats them (the shootings) like just another ho-hum night. Nobody really cares until a white guy shoots a smoked up black teenager who is smashing his head on the concrete.
I don't care if the kid was black, white, yellow or red, I'd have done the same thing. No racism here..
There is way more to this than most people know.
Sanford PD refused to arrest him, and Norm Wolfinger, the local state's attorney, refused to charge him, because there was no evidence that GZ committed a crime.
Then black politicians and the NAACP, along with anti-gun politicians pressured local politicians, who fired the police chief, and replaced him with a black man who was the chief of Chicago's police. Oh, now there's a great selection, the chief of police of the city with the most gun violence in America. ::)
So FLA's Gov. Scott goes to Jacksonville, gets that district's state's attorney, Angela Corey, to bring her special prosecutors down to Sanford to charge and arrest GZ. Since that time, Corey was reelected, running against no opposition. Word in the political arenas is that if Gov. Scott is reelected, Corey will become the FLA State Attorney General.
GZ spends over a year in jail. The trial starts with a judge who obviously favored the prosecution, siding with them on nearly every motion and every objection. Nearly all evidence about TM was suppressed, while nearly all evidence about GZ was allowed. The trial was a kangaroo court, but in the end, the prosecution's dramatics could not make up for the fact that it was self-defense and that GZ had committed no crime.
Meanwhile, the world is focused on the GZ trial, verdict and fall out, and no one is paying attention to Obama and all of his scandalous behavior. So yes, indeed, Obama most certainly does win again! He didn't go on TV and say if he had a son, he would look like Trayvon, and then go on again after the verdict and say to honor Trayvon for no reason. Obama knew both statements would fire people up on this issue, and the attention to all of his other BS would disappear for a while.
And that is why the media 3 ring circus continues, and Eric Holder is demanding that GZ be brought up on civil rights violations for murdering TM, which GZ was just found not guilty of. Its a circus folks, don't be spectators. Here are some links exposing info that the main stream media never reported, and that was not allowed as evidence in the trial.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/07/14/a--of-george-zimmermans-awakened-understand-the-fraud-post-verdict-of-acquittal/ (http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/07/14/a--of-george-zimmermans-awakened-understand-the-fraud-post-verdict-of-acquittal/)
http://theblacksphere.net/2013/07/the-zimmerman-case-thoughts-and-analysis/ (http://theblacksphere.net/2013/07/the-zimmerman-case-thoughts-and-analysis/)
http://spectator.org/blog/2013/07/15/trayvon-crime-school-miami (http://spectator.org/blog/2013/07/15/trayvon-crime-school-miami)
Quote from: RutnNStrutn on July 16, 2013, 12:02:12 PM
There is way more to this than most people know.
This is why we're going to hell in a handbasket. My statemant that obama lost was just about the trial. His intention was to stir up racial hatred and he won big time. He is the president of the United Stated and he don't say things like that for no reason. For weeks on in everything is about Trayvon. forget about the IRS and Benghazi and EPA and all these other scandals. And we sure don't want to think about what harry is trying to do to the senate rules. The FBI already investigated and found no grounds, now eric is gona investigate agan and obama could put a stop to it. Think this will come up agan in the next gun control rush? There was never a murder case, not even a hint of one. But you see what these clowns did to our nation. I hope GZ owns NBC when its over.
Where are we going? No election will ever change things. Washington will never fix Washington. They made it. Seriously... Where are we going?
I cringe when I think of the direction this country is headed. And I darn sure never thought I'd see it in my lifetime. We have to elect new leaders with thoughts as radical as the liberals have, but on the opposite end of the spectrum. And about the only ones I see who fit this bill so far are Rand Paul and Ted Cruz.
Frankly, I'd like to get rid of all of the political "parties". No more Demorat, Republican, Libertarian, nothing. Let everyone run as an independent. That would be a first step. I don't see that happening though. I'm seriously concerned about the future of our country, especially if the radical Demorats win the next 2 elections.
I'm not sure why these types of discussions always seem to regress into a political debate, but it is what it is, I suppose. All I will say is that if this same incident had occurred here in the region I live, I would have fully expected the process that occurred to have taken place. It would not have mattered one iota if the individuals involved were white, black, or green,...and it would not have mattered what their political persuasion was.
A kid was killed under suspicious circumstances and our society as a whole deserved to have it investigated to make sure that every effort is made to insure that more of the same does not occur again. The end result of this tragedy is that one person is dead,...and the other has had his life irreparably changed. Both outcomes were the result of terribly bad judgement. There will be other incidents like this in the future, and perhaps those involved will look at what happened here and realize that maybe the best course of action is to avoid a similar confrontation rather than risk being on either side of the outcome.
This may be best looked upon as a test case for our society. A sad and tragic incident took place. Hopefully, a lesson has been learned for all of us to use for guidance in our future actions. To simply look at it from the standpoint of race and politics is really difficult for me to fathom.
Quote from: GobbleNut on July 17, 2013, 10:19:25 AM
I'm not sure why these types of discussions always seem to regress into a political debate, but it is what it is, I suppose. All I will say is that if this same incident had occurred here in the region I live, I would have fully expected the process that occurred to have taken place. It would not have mattered one iota if the individuals involved were white, black, or green,...and it would not have mattered what their political persuasion was.
A kid was killed under suspicious circumstances and our society as a whole deserved to have it investigated to make sure that every effort is made to insure that more of the same does not occur again. The end result of this tragedy is that one person is dead,...and the other has had his life irreparably changed. Both outcomes were the result of terribly bad judgement. There will be other incidents like this in the future, and perhaps those involved will look at what happened here and realize that maybe the best course of action is to avoid a similar confrontation rather than risk being on either side of the outcome.
This may be best looked upon as a test case for our society. A sad and tragic incident took place. Hopefully, a lesson has been learned for all of us to use for guidance in our future actions. To simply look at it from the standpoint of race and politics is really difficult for me to fathom.
"
White, black or green". I know why you said green you live close to Roswell. ;D :TooFunny: :TooFunny:
Gobblenut, the reason this particular case became a political discussion is because it is political. The Sanford PD and local State's Attorney investigated the shooting and determined that no crime was committed. It was only after the politics of race, along with the politics of anti-gunners were brought to bear that GZ was charged and arrested. This was done by a different region's State's Attorney at the behest of Florida Gov. Scott, who buckled to the pressure coming from Washington as Obama, Holder, Jackson and Sharpton got involved. It doesn't get more political than that friend.
"White, black or green". I know why you said green you live close to Roswell. ;D :TooFunny: :TooFunny: ....Slamman
:TooFunny: :toothy9: Yeah,...I suppose that was a bad choice of colors....
"Gobblenut, the reason this particular case became a political discussion is because it is political. The Sanford PD and local State's Attorney investigated the shooting and determined that no crime was committed. It was only after the politics of race, along with the politics of anti-gunners were brought to bear that GZ was charged and arrested. This was done by a different region's State's Attorney at the behest of Florida Gov. Scott, who buckled to the pressure coming from Washington as Obama, Holder, Jackson and Sharpton got involved. It doesn't get more political than that friend."---RutnNStrutn
Admittedly, it did become political,...but only because individuals on both sides of the political spectrum choose to make it that way. My point is that the process that occurred should have occurred, regardless of whether or not it was made into a political issue or not. The process that led us to this point was the correct one, and once again, it is irrelevant what one's politics or skin color is.
We should all be applauding the process. The system worked here as it is supposed to work. As a society, we needed to get to the bottom of what happened,...and to do that, we needed to explore all of the possible reasons for it. Some of those possible reasons are unsavoury to many of us, but because of the unfortunate circumstances of this specific case, they had to be explored for us to move forward as a country.
Although others have turned this into a political and racial issue does not mean that we here have to.
Quote from: GobbleNut on July 17, 2013, 10:19:25 AM
I'm not sure why these types of discussions always seem to regress into a political debate, but it is what it is, I suppose. All I will say is that if this same incident had occurred here in the region I live, I would have fully expected the process that occurred to have taken place. It would not have mattered one iota if the individuals involved were white, black, or green,...and it would not have mattered what their political persuasion was.
A kid was killed under suspicious circumstances and our society as a whole deserved to have it investigated to make sure that every effort is made to insure that more of the same does not occur again. The end result of this tragedy is that one person is dead,...and the other has had his life irreparably changed. Both outcomes were the result of terribly bad judgement. There will be other incidents like this in the future, and perhaps those involved will look at what happened here and realize that maybe the best course of action is to avoid a similar confrontation rather than risk being on either side of the outcome.
This may be best looked upon as a test case for our society. A sad and tragic incident took place. Hopefully, a lesson has been learned for all of us to use for guidance in our future actions. To simply look at it from the standpoint of race and politics is really difficult for me to fathom.
Quote from: RutnNStrutn on July 16, 2013, 12:02:12 PM
There is way more to this than most people know.
And I would fully expect after the locals investigated and found no evidence for charges and the FBI investigated and found no evidence for charges it would be left alone instead of fireing everybody that don't go along with your political and racial agenda, and falsifying an arrest warrent. I would not expect our tax dollars to be spent bussing people to protest and I would not expect a man who has been held on contempt of congress and gave them the middle finger to be begging anybody in the country to give him something to make GZ a racist. I would not expect a man who has been hispanic all his life to suddenly become white, and a baby picture to be used to deplict the other. I would not expect violence and protests and flag burning from shore to shore. Is this what our society as a whole deserves? When kids are gunned down in Chicago does anybody make every effort to insure that more of the same does not occur agan? Could this be why this discussion REGRESSED to political? Your statement about a lesson being learned for all of us to use for guidance in our future actions is spot on and it is difficult for me to fathom how it was looked at from the standpoint of race and politics from day one. That being said, can we discuss what lessons should be learned from this? And what could be done to insure that more of the same doesn't happen agan.I would sure hate to be in GZ shoes, knowing that my actions took a life and stirred up hatred across the country.
Good comments, longspur. I do not presume to know why the sheriff (or whoever it was) was fired. I don't know what transpired to get to that point. If it was purely political, then it was wrong, and hopefully we will find out the facts about it at some point so something can be done in that regard, as well.
From my own perspective, looking at the initial incident and what was reported, I would have expected a thorough investigation to be done,...once again, regardless of the racial backgrounds of the persons involved. Based on what I had read, there was certainly legitimate reason to suspect that, after all was said and done, charges might be filed in the case. There was certainly the possibility that GZ had done something to force the issue with Martin, hence providing reasonable incentive for a case to be pursued against him. I think the evidence available at the beginning of this, and the feasibility that GZ could have been the instigator, were reasonable incentive for the case to be, at a minimum, looked at much more closely than it initially appeared to have been.
If that was the case,...and again it appears reasonable to me that it was,...the next question for me is why did the person in charge of the investigation and law enforcement agency involved choose not to delve deeper into the case before deciding not to file potential charges against Zimmerman? I believe any reasonable person would take a look at the initial evidence and think that there was reason to think that GZ pushed this to the point of aggravating the kid into a confrontation. (Do I think Zimmerman had a clue that he might be forced to shoot the kid? No, I don't. I think if Zimmerman had any idea that what eventually happened was going to occur, I feel certain that he would have backed off.)
So, the question then becomes,...what was the motive behind the sheriff appearing not to have followed through completely with the investigation to the point of realizing that there was legitimate basis for filing charges against Zimmerman? Could there have been prejudice involved? It certainly could be argued that that was the case based on everything we know now. And if there was no prejudice involved, could a reasonable person not conclude that perhaps the sheriff was incompetent if he did not pursue charges in a case where it now appears to be rather clear to the general public that charges were warranted?
Again, I don't think Zimmerman is guilty. I think the verdict was the correct one. But I also think we had to go through the legal process, in this specific case, to make that determination. For the sheriff to unilaterally make that determination seems questionable, irresponsible, and incompetent now. He should have had the foresight to see what was coming. Why didn't he?
If George Zimmerman was black, this shooting would not even have hit the papers. You know it, I know, and the whole world knows it..
They shoot each other on a daily basis, for much less..
Ladies and gentlemen, the elephant has officially left the room...
GobbleNut, when you speak of what was reported are you talking about the actual papers that were filed or what was reported on media? You speak of what APPEARED to have happened and what the investigator APPEARED to have done or not done. Could it be that they did a much better investigation than you think and could find no evidence for charges. If there were any grounds for charges why did the warrent need to be falsefied. It sounds like you're saying that if the locals and FBI had done a better job at investigating in the first place this uproar may not have hapened. Fact is all they wanted was charges filed and a trial. They got one and it didn't satisfy anyone.
Quote from: longspur on July 17, 2013, 03:38:07 PM
GobbleNut, when you speak of what was reported are you talking about the actual papers that were filed or what was reported on media? You speak of what APPEARED to have happened and what the investigator APPEARED to have done or not done. Could it be that they did a much better investigation than you think and could find no evidence for charges. If there were any grounds for charges why did the warrent need to be falsefied. It sounds like you're saying that if the locals and FBI had done a better job at investigating in the first place this uproar may not have hapened. Fact is all they wanted was charges filed and a trial. They got one and it didn't satisfy anyone.
More good points made, longspur. You may well be right in your analysis. Perhaps adequate investigation was done. I can honestly state that I don't know for sure. It most certainly is a fact that, in the end, the outcome verified what the investigating team initially concluded.
Would the country have been better served if the entire affair had been swept under a rug and nothing done. Maybe so but, in this "information age", that is not likely to happen anymore. Once again, this turned out to be a very good "test case" for the "stand your ground" laws. Hopefully, people will see what happened here and use better judgement in the future. I suppose that might be the silver lining, if there is one to be found, in this whole affair.
Regardless, I am still of the opinion that all of the political posturing, on both sides, is not necessary and is counterproductive to all concerned.
This case provides an excellent learning lesson for the minions:
Don't attack an armed man--you might get yourself kilt.
and what would the "stand your ground" law have to do with this? It was never used
I feel sorry for this person who was shot , and his family
But its turned into a political circus in a grandiose scale , that I doubt we will ever see again in our lifetime
Question: do you see CNN journalists asking the POTUS, NAACP, J Jackson or Sharpton ( self proclaimed men of god) about why they help make it legal for millions of people to use abortion as birth control , millions killed every year.... most of are poor inner city types , blacks topping the list ? Who to blame for that massacre? Don't worry millions will duck their heads and change the channel to MTV where the kids are all getting a brainwash education from Hollywood- if these guys wanted to save as many people from murder I suggest they stop being Leper Messia's , man up and do what Jesus would want you to do , instead of being popular with woefully missinformed and fooled again crowd ....again my deepest sympathy th the family of Mr Martin
This week my hat is off to the governer and votors of Texas for saving some lives in this world by passing some meaningful legislation and getting the ball closer to the eventual goal line
I wasn't going to comment on this post, because of my strong beliefs, but after reading it I am going to say my 2 cents worth.
1. It is sad that a life was taking, not lost, taken....
2. I don't rely on the media for making judgement calls, when we have the worlds best investigative branches within our court systems.
3. When God said "thou shalt not kill" it didn't matter age, sex, race, size or whatever....He said it and that is the way it is....in this sense the word kill in Hebrew refers to the word "Ratsach" which means: Murder; ie - to Murder, a Murderer; to dash to pieces. Also we see words like "smite" which in Hebrew means "Nakah" or to murder, "slay" in Hebrew is "Harag" which is to smiteth with deadly intent, it is clear that "intent" plays a major roll in defining these words.
4. No...the word kill does not have any discrimination.
5. I do not foresee any of the attitudes changing, when it comes to violence of this sort, humans are humans and humans make wrong decisions, no matter how influential a person may be within their environment, they should keep their judgements to themselves and let the justice system prevail.
6. My final thoughts.....I saw a life taken, noone except Mr. Zimmerman and God now knows the truth of the matter, NO ONE.... and if Mr. Zimmerman can live with what he did, so be it, I feel this event was exploited "Politically" and by the "Media" to gain ratings and support from certain ethnically backed sources for future usage. And as long as we as Americans allow this to take place, we will continue to play "who's the blame game" or "who is right or wrong game" instead of living our lives the way God intended for us to live them.
If I had a son... Well never mind. :deadhorse: