I have been thinking about technology advancements and the roll it has play in hunting over the last 30 years or so. I also saw an article somewhere about this as well. It got me thinking.. at what point is the "real challenge" being taken out of the hunt? I want to hear what other hunters think. There is no right or wrong here, but I thought of some examples below..
Guns – the need for a 10ga or 3.5 12ga for turkeys - technology with HEVI ammo and chokes have come a long way over the years. As we all know.. you can get a 20ga today with the right choke and ammo that will shoot the same (if not better) when compared to the big bore guns of years ago. Of course the 10 and 12 ga guns shoot better as well these day. But when is enough ..enough? Is there really much challenge to shooting a 10 or 12ga shell with a 2.5oz payload?
Hunting Blinds is another thing. Does anyone think blinds make it too easy? For youth hunts, I think they are great and should be used. But for seasoned turkey hunters ... I just don't know?
Other examples apply to deer hunting – like all the scent elimination junk, Ozone gimmicks, etc.
This past turkey season I decided to make a move back to more "basics". I started out by not using a blind. Pretty hard for me anyways because I hunt a large track or land and go a lot of running and gunning. Next year I will be hunting with only a 20 ga.. no more 12ga.
Small changes I feel like making. Again.. no right or wrong here... would like to hear other thoughts..
You should do what you want to do within the regulations you have to work with. I think the regulations should be to the benefit of the wildlife and quality hunting.
I think each tool has it's deserved place in the arsenal but i prefer to hunt decoyless and sans blinds. It's just a more pure form of hunting them.
The new generation of turkey hunters really concern me, though.
They rely exclusively on blinds, decoys and field set-ups. Can't call, don't know turkeys, dont know how to think like a turkey and don't know much about turkey hunting in general.
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on May 15, 2013, 04:10:45 PM
I think each tool has it's deserved place in the arsenal but i prefer to hunt decoyless and sans blinds. It's just a more pure form of hunting them.
The new generation of turkey hunters really concern me, though.
They rely exclusively on blinds, decoys and field set-ups. Can't call, don't know turkeys, dont know how to think like a turkey and don't know much about turkey hunting in general.
X2
If you feel it's getting too easy, there ain't nothin' wrong with challenging yourself. That's for each person to decide on his own...because no matter how you hunt something, you can always find somebody on a high horse to tell you that you're doing it wrong. ;)
Quote from: stinkpickle on May 15, 2013, 04:55:22 PM
If you feel it's getting too easy, there ain't nothin' wrong with challenging yourself. That's for each person to decide on his own...because no matter how you hunt something, you can always find somebody on a high horse to tell you that you're doing it wrong. ;)
Sho' nuff Stinky! To each his own.
IMO way too many hunters rely on blinds and decoys. I'm teaching my son to hunt turkeys "Old School" without the use of either one. I have shotguns in 10,12 and 20 gauge. At some point during the season I hunt with all of them. I do NOT however use HTL shot. I shoot good old lead. The way some guys talk I wonder how we ever killed turkeys before HTL. I wish I had a nickel for everytime I have heard "How many pellets in 10" at 40 yards"? I believe woodsmanship and calling ability are much more important than hauling all that junk to the woods. Too many guys hunt from blinds with decoys so they can drink coffee, talk, text their friends,make phone calls, move around and have a picnic. They do everything except hunt. I am proud to say my 14 year old son and I both bagged mature longbeards this spring and we did it "Old School". Sorry for the rant, just my opinion. You may agree or disagree with it. Either way that's fine.
well said...
its certainly a topic worth discussing, same can be said for archery when bows can shoot more accurate and carry more energy at 80yds than recurves could at 30
This is why i've gone to hunting with the 20 gauge.Yes sometimes I use HTL,but mostly lead.I will not shoot at birds over 30 yds,i'm a how close,not how far kind of guy.Same with deer hunting.I've ditched most if not all my camo and gone with just good ol' plain earth tone colors.And I hunt with a muzzleloader,yes its a inline with a scope,I limit myself to 100 yds or less on shots(see comment above).If its legal,I really dont have trouble with people doing it,but sometimes I just shake my head and ask "why?".Thats like that show on pursuit or sportsman channel where they shoot big game at 700,800,900,or more yards with suped up rigs.Yes it takes lots of skill to hit a target at that range effectively,but why would you want to shoot a animal that far.seems like no challenge to me.seems most products designed today are to make it easier,and its slowly eating away at peoples hunting skills.too much reliance on stuff.just my .02
Quote from: stinkpickle on May 15, 2013, 04:55:22 PM
If you feel it's getting too easy, there ain't nothin' wrong with challenging yourself. That's for each person to decide on his own...because no matter how you hunt something, you can always find somebody on a high horse to tell you that you're doing it wrong. ;)
Yep, We all need to hunt in a way that's first legal, second rewarding. That's why some folks use muzzleloaders and some not, some use bows, others a 10 ga.
I think it is up to you how or what you hunt with as long as its legal.I mostly use a blind but have only killed 3 birds in my life.My step son killed one,I have missed 2,my step son has missed 1 and could not get a shot at a bird I called in because I sat down wrong without a blind.I have used deer scents but not sure that they worked. I like to up my odds as much as possible but dont think it gives anybody a sure thing.BTW every bird we have killed was called in and shot out of a blind,this is because I dont have a bunch of land to walk,its kind of a luck thing to get a bird to come and be receptive.
Quote from: stinkpickle on May 15, 2013, 04:55:22 PM
If you feel it's getting too easy, there ain't nothin' wrong with challenging yourself. That's for each person to decide on his own...because no matter how you hunt something, you can always find somebody on a high horse to tell you that you're doing it wrong. ;)
:agreed:
Gotta go with to each his own.Long as its legal.No doubt the new stuff that comes out every year does make it a lot easier.I like the comfort of a blind.I don't see much difference in a pop up or a brush blind ,except the pop up is portable.My first dedicated turkey gun was a 10 ga. single shot. Then a 12 ga. 11-87,a 12 ga 870 and now I use a Nova 20 ga.
Any legal tactic I can use, is what I use. I first started turkey hunting, with my father, when I was around 10 and I am now 33. I enjoy hunting turkeys but I enjoy killing turkeys even more. If it were not for blinds or decoys there are a few birds I would have never killed because of the terrain, or circumstances for that particular hunt. Where I hunt the birds receive quite a bit of hunting pressure and I try to utilize every trick of the trade available. Alot of times that means the difference between packing a longbeard out over your shoulder or leaving unsuccessful. I think whatever makes you enjoy the sport and it is perfectly legal is how a person should pursue this noble animal we all enjoy to chase. Just my opinion.
i know all the new hunting technology has got my wallet thinner
Everything changes for better or worse who knows. I remember when I first started turkey hunting birds would gobble all day long and actually come to calls now I havnt heard a gobble after lets say 11am in many years. And gobble after they hit the ground almost never anymore. Do I think there is more hens now? No! So that's not it. So as things change we change. I personally do not use blinds or decoys as the style I like to hunt is to cover miles of ground in a day. I will say that the sight of a longbeard coming across a cut corn field to a decoy set up is a sight to see. So if its blinds or decoys you choose go for it as long as you are legal enjoy.
I am in the "do it the way you want to as long as it is legal and ethical" camp. Having said that, I also believe that all the "advances" in turkey hunting equipment (I prefer to call them "regressions") have to a large degree made turkey hunting more about "killing turkeys" than truly "hunting turkeys",
When I first started turkey hunting back in the 1960's, there were no decoys and no blinds, and the turkey calls that were available were mostly genuinely crappy compared to those that are available today. The shotguns available would shoot half as far, or less, than the ones available today.
If you wanted to kill a gobbler, you either learned how to turkey hunt and call with the crummy tools available, or you hoped to luck into a bird somehow. There were also a heck of a lot fewer turkeys around then, so the chances of sticking a decoy, or ten, in the ground, putting up a pop-up blind,...even if they had been available,...and waiting for the local flock to feed within sight of your set-up were pretty slim.
We learned to hunt turkeys by learning how to find them and then make turkey sounds to lure them into sure-fire shotgun range of thirty yards or less. The thrill of accomplishing that was exhilarating! ...And that is what attracted all of us back then to spring gobbler hunting!
That attraction was based on all of the things that led up to that final moment of pulling the trigger, not the actual killing of the turkey. The attraction was the "hunt", not the "kill". From my perspective, that is what I see missing today with all of the "stuff" that is available that makes turkey "killing" easier.
The real thrill of what attracted so many of us long ago,...and the thrill that many of us wish that the new hunting community could experience,....has been replaced by a technology that has led new hunters towards a different perspective of what turkey hunting is about.
In my opinion, that is a shame.
I think it is all personal preference. If it is legal and you want to use tools to make it easier or more comfortable or whatever then by all means use it, its your choice not mine or anyone else. I hunt the way I hunt and you hunt the way you hunt, etc. As long as you are out there hunting and enjoying yourself that is what it is all about.
I am going to raise my own cotton and sheep this year so I can spin my own thread and loom my own fabric to make my own clothes. I will make my own boots from deer skins, from animals I take with a primitive bow, topped by stone arrowheads I make myself. I will weave my own decoys from marsh grass and make the dyes to color them with from plants I harvest.
I will forego the use of mouth calls as latex is too modern and too easy to call with.
I will walk or ride on horseback to my hunting grounds, as a pickup truck is too modern and I am afraid the iron horse is making modern hunters fat and lazy.
Anyone who does it any differently is the victim of modern technology and not a true hunter. :boon:
Very generally speaking, as long as someone stays within the limits of the regulations, I don't really care how anyone else hunts :)
mudhen
Quote from: mudhen on May 16, 2013, 01:39:14 PM
Very generally speaking, as long as someone stays within the limits of the regulations, I don't really care how anyone else hunts :)
mudhen
I'll go roost shoot one tomorrow just because I can and it's LEGAL. Then we'll see how all you guys in the "if it's legal it's ok" crowd feel about it!
Just kidding, I've got too much respect for the wild turkey to do it but god durn I wish I had the balls to just to prove a point....
Let me throw a bit different take on the issue.
I work anywhere from 50-65 hours per week at 2 jobs. From around December through at least the end of April, most of my weekends, evenings off and sometimes a couple of hours in the morning before my day job are spent in my shop making turkey calls. I work these hours to pay the bills and so I can afford to pull off a hunt or two out of state since the bird population on the public land around me is so poor.
Given that schedule, I don't have time to get out and scout birds the way I would like. My Saturdays during this time begin around 6AM, work until around 4PM with maybe 30 minutes break, go in and shower and get to evening job at 5PM and work until 9-10PM. Sundays, get up at 6AM to work in the shop for a couple of hours before cleaning up to go to church, come home and have lunch, work in the shop until 4PM before cleaning up to be at work from 5PM until 9PM.
I don't say that to get anyone's pity. I could stop building calls and just hunt and enjoy my time in the woods... but I don't. With the schedule that I have, I basically get to take 2 weekends to get out of the shop and away during season. This season I spent one of those weekends guiding on a youth hunt and had a blast. The following weekend I had the privelege of hunting in OK with a friend that started out as a customer (bought numerous calls over the past few years). We hunted a property that was amazing. That said, I had never stepped foot on the property in my life before the hunt. I had no aerial maps to view the property. I had no clue what was over the next rise. I killed my bird sitting in a blind on the edge of food plot with 3 DSD decoys and a stuffed decoy 20 yards in front of me. I shot the bird with hevi shot that would have dropped him like a rock at 3 times the distance.
Did any of these "tools" make my experience less enjoyable? Not in the least. Could I have killed a bird without the blind or decoys on this trip? I don't know. If I had not taken a bird, would I have had another opportunity to hunt for the season? No. Do I feel I had an unfair advantage due to any of the "tools" I used? No.
All of our life situations are different. Some are priveleged to be able to hunt before or after work most any day of the week. Some get to hunt multiple states throughout the season. Some take a week or two at a time off to hunt. We hunt with different firearms/bows and other gear. One thing that we probably all share is the way a gobble within 100 yards intensifies your focus and makes you feel like a kid waiting for Christmas morning.
If you feel like a particular "tool" gives you an unfair advantage, don't use it. If your game laws allow you to use these things and you don't feel somehow that you have lessened your experience, by all means, use them.
Since we are in the mood for personal experiences and how they apply to this question, let me give you one of my own. It applies to the question of legality versus ethics.
Here in New Mexico about ten years ago, our Game Commission passed a law that made it legal for hunters to shoot certain game birds, including turkeys, over feeders on private land (...and by the way, that law has been rescinded due to pressure from sportsmen). At our cabin in the mountains, we have a feeder set up occasionally, mostly to hold wildlife around the place so that visitors can view them.
The feeder is about thirty yards from the kitchen table so that people can sit and watch the wildlife come in. Most years we have 50 to 75 Merriams turkeys that hang out, and they are there during the turkey season. During the period that it was legal to shoot turkeys over feeders, we could probably have killed a dozen mature gobblers each spring by doing nothing more than sliding the kitchen window open, picking out a victim, and pulling the trigger. Nobody ever did it,...and it was pretty much made crystal clear to everybody that hunted with us that, regardless of what the law allowed, it was unethical to shoot turkeys that way.
Now here's the second part of this story. A couple of acquaintances from the town I live in started a youth hunting club in honor of one of their fathers who had passed away from cancer. It was a great idea, and I admire them for sacrificing a whole lot of time, effort, and dollars to give young hunters a chance to learn about hunting. The club was quite popular and successful in attracting kids to the outdoors and the hunting experience.
However, during the time it was legal to shoot turkeys over feeders, these guys would set up feeders, put out pop-up blinds around them, and let these kids shoot gobblers out of the blinds when they came in. There was no hunting being done at all. The turkeys were merely target practice for those kids, and the entire process did nothing to teach them about hunting, or the concept of how ethics apply. I personally found the entire idea of what they were doing, and teaching those kids, to be disturbing and distasteful.
Now, there are some that can buy the "if it's legal, it's okay" mentality with stuff like that, but there is no way in H£ll you are going to ever convince me that what those adults were doing with those kids was right.
Me personally, I shoot the hevi shells because I want to ensure a clean kill to 40 yards.
I shoot a red dot on my gun because my aging, bifocal-wearing eyes need the help. I really would prefer not to depend on anything battery operated but it is an aid I need.
I carry decoys in the truck but rarely use them.
I never used a blind for turkeys but I may with my grandsons if that's what it takes. I hope not tho.
Technology is not all bad, but I prefer my hunting simple.
I do use blinds occasionally. I learned to turkey hunt big timber birds. Seldom, did I use decoys, and I still don't use them when woods hunting now. But, now I use decoys almost every time I hunt. Where I now hunt the birds pitch down to fields every morning and spend most of the day there because the woods are pretty thick, and visibility is often limited to 10-20 yards or less. If a field birds hears your calling and don't see a "turkey" you are just peaing in the wind. I do shoot hevi-shot and of the four birds I killed this year all were 30 yards or less. You don't need a 300 mag to kill a deer, when your longest shot is only 200-300 yards, but many folks use them. As long as its legal. To each his own.
Hunt and let hunt I say. What kind of arrogant **** would I be to pass judgement on the way someone else chooses to hunt, assuming they're doing everything legally and having fun? I like to run and gun in the timber with no blind or dekes as much as the next guy, but from time to time I also enjoy sitting in a double bull, sipping coffee while watching a tom work to within bow range of my dsd's. I've even been known to take satisfaction (gasp) in using the terrain/cover to cut off a stubborn bird that marches away from my calling and bushwhack him. Variety in hunting keeps it fresh, just like variety in life in general. Just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions....
I hunt with one mouth call,chair to sit in and wall mart camo that is ten plus years old.That's it all I hunt with,and had seven south Alabama birds with in 50 yards.took two and had my first miss.I like to travel lite,sweet talk them.!! Works for me,to each his on.!!!!!
To each their own. I use decoys and a blind but i still put my time in scouting and learning the birds patterns. The two things i wont do is hunt them over bait or use a rifle (both illegal here) but would'nt do it if it was legal. I wont put someone down if they use a rifle but i like to see how close i can get the birds.
Quote from: WildTigerTrout on May 15, 2013, 05:12:13 PM
IMO way too many hunters rely on blinds and decoys. I'm teaching my son to hunt turkeys "Old School" without the use of either one. I have shotguns in 10,12 and 20 gauge. At some point during the season I hunt with all of them. I do NOT however use HTL shot. I shoot good old lead. The way some guys talk I wonder how we ever killed turkeys before HTL. I wish I had a nickel for everytime I have heard "How many pellets in 10" at 40 yards"? I believe woodsmanship and calling ability are much more important than hauling all that junk to the woods. Too many guys hunt from blinds with decoys so they can drink coffee, talk, text their friends,make phone calls, move around and have a picnic. They do everything except hunt. I am proud to say my 14 year old son and I both bagged mature longbeards this spring and we did it "Old School". Sorry for the rant, just my opinion. You may agree or disagree with it. Either way that's fine.
I guess I don't understand the, "technology has improved but I am still going to make it as difficult as I can for me and my kid" philosophy when it comes to hunters. I killed a bunch of turkeys with a 12 ga 1100, single bead fixed modified barrel, shooting 2 3/4" Remington Duplex 2x6 shells, because that is what I had to hunt with as a teenager & college kid. I sure wouldn't think of going in the woods with it now. I wanted to give my son every advantage I could when he started turkey hunting 2 season ago at the age of 10 and his first year he was able to kill 3 out of a blind shooting 20 ga Hevi-7s. The closest kill was 12 yards and the furthest was 40 yards. He killed 3 this year at the age of 11, one he was sitting in a Gobbler Lounger in the middle of a logging road, one he was sitting in a Gobbler Lounger in front of a big rock, and one from a blind. All three were shot right at 40 (+/- a few) yards as soon as they presented him with a clear shot. He and I were just as excited on the 6th one as we were with his first. We go turkey hunting to kill turkeys not to prove we are superior hunters in comparison to anybody else in regards to how we kill them. Keep doing what your doing if it makes you feel good. I think we are going to shoot 18 g/cm3 shot next year. :o
I just wanted to add my 2 cents. I have been hunting birds since I was 16 and am now 25. I can say that I have it down for the most part and was able to tag out quickly this year. For me, the hunt and the game of chasing long beards is more exciting than shooting them now. My opening day i called in 5 Jakes that gobbled out of no where and watched them work across a huge field to my calling and put on a show. I enjoyed watching these guys at 10 yards and easily let them walk. I had more excitement with them than killing either of my long beards i got the following two days. For me, it is all about the dynamic aspect of the sport and admiring how intricate and amazing Gods creation is. Being up early and watching the woods come alive is simply awesome. For me that is what makes my hunt.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
I'll add my .02 worth too!! I've been hunting turkeys now for 28 years. Back then it was green Dickie work pants and an army BDU shirt for camo, no blind nor decoys. These turkeys fell to #4 lead shot that where hurled down the 30" barrel of a Stevens side by side. I have, on occasion set out a decoy or two. Seems as if they have cost me as many birds as they have helped to call in. Have never sat in a comercial blind set up, but have made some pretty good ones out of what was at hand. Have set in many of bushes that you could hardly see into. The two afore mentioned aides are just not my style of hunting. Back to the gun, since those early years I have strived to shoot the best load that is going to get the job done the most efficiently. This is my first year of shooting heavy-shot. I like it and will continue to shot it. It patterns very well and has great penetration. I remember when folks around me started shooting lead # 6's. I was the sceptic. I later went to shooting those # 6's myself because I had started shooting a Mossberg 9200 with an aftermarket choke tube. That was the best load I could get to shoot the way I wanted. I don't put a lot of stock in that imaginary line that is between a gobbler and myself. If he is within mine and my gun's capability of killing him cleanly, I take the shot. Sure, I had rather shot him at 20 steps, and who wouldn't; but, I'm not spending 1 or 2 hours working a bird to let him walk off at 45 or 50. My gun can kill them stone cold dead at that distance and so can I.
Progression is a good thing, to a degree. If not, then we would be riding our horses to our favorite bushwacking spot like was mentioned before. Why do you think the turkey numbers dropped to an all time low. Those old timers killed for food and did not hesitate to shoot one from the roost, or a corn pile for that matter. We've all ready stories about how they would string the corn out on the ground and them and their buddies would lay in wait until a bunch gathered at the corn pile, then all shoot at once. Now, I'm not saying this was the only way folks turkey hunted back then. Heck people are still doing that today, according to a previous poster. I think all of us are against that!
What I'm against, is today mentallity that everyone gets a trophy. Read on another forum where a guy and his girl friend went, hunted from a blind so she could eat her snacks, text on her phone and not have to worry about getting busted for moving. She kills a bird and now she's a bonfied, dyed in the wool turkey hunter, just like those of us that get out there and sit in nature's camo with a gobbler 5 steps behind us, spitting and drumming and our eyes feel like they are about to pop out of our head from cutting our eyes to the side trying to see this gobbler. She has absolutely no idea about how "cheap" her hunt was. But, she got her trophy!
Let's continue on with the morals of turkey hunting. Competition is a good thing to a degree. But too much competition isn't good either. I've got to win that contest, I've got to win that contest, I've got to win that contest, so I can get those free turkey calls and feel like I'm the best turkey hunter. I have enough problems just competeing with the hen and nature it'self without factoring in 50 other guys. So what makes a guy that's hunting public land pull 50-75 yards past a guy then try to beat him to a gobbling bird? No ethics, no morals!! That's what! I don't care if it is PUBLIC LAND and you pay several thousand dollars in taxes and he only pays a few hundred. Has nothing to do with it!
So, I say, if it's legal, fine! But, let's strive to use a good code of ethics and morals. Killing was for putting food on the table. Hunting was a gentleman's sport......at one time.
Quote from: wmd on May 17, 2013, 12:16:36 AM
Quote from: WildTigerTrout on May 15, 2013, 05:12:13 PM
IMO way too many hunters rely on blinds and decoys. I'm teaching my son to hunt turkeys "Old School" without the use of either one. I have shotguns in 10,12 and 20 gauge. At some point during the season I hunt with all of them. I do NOT however use HTL shot. I shoot good old lead. The way some guys talk I wonder how we ever killed turkeys before HTL. I wish I had a nickel for everytime I have heard "How many pellets in 10" at 40 yards"? I believe woodsmanship and calling ability are much more important than hauling all that junk to the woods. Too many guys hunt from blinds with decoys so they can drink coffee, talk, text their friends,make phone calls, move around and have a picnic. They do everything except hunt. I am proud to say my 14 year old son and I both bagged mature longbeards this spring and we did it "Old School". Sorry for the rant, just my opinion. You may agree or disagree with it. Either way that's fine.
I guess I don't understand the, "technology has improved but I am still going to make it as difficult as I can for me and my kid" philosophy when it comes to hunters. I killed a bunch of turkeys with a 12 ga 1100, single bead fixed modified barrel, shooting 2 3/4" Remington Duplex 2x6 shells, because that is what I had to hunt with as a teenager & college kid. I sure wouldn't think of going in the woods with it now. I wanted to give my son every advantage I could when he started turkey hunting 2 season ago at the age of 10 and his first year he was able to kill 3 out of a blind shooting 20 ga Hevi-7s. The closest kill was 12 yards and the furthest was 40 yards. He killed 3 this year at the age of 11, one he was sitting in a Gobbler Lounger in the middle of a logging road, one he was sitting in a Gobbler Lounger in front of a big rock, and one from a blind. All three were shot right at 40 (+/- a few) yards as soon as they presented him with a clear shot. He and I were just as excited on the 6th one as we were with his first. We go turkey hunting to kill turkeys not to prove we are superior hunters in comparison to anybody else in regards to how we kill them. Keep doing what your doing if it makes you feel good. I think we are going to shoot 18 g/cm3 shot next year. :o
I want my son to experience the true essence of turkey hunting, not sitting in a blind and watching decoys! I want him to see the TRUE challenge.The way turkey hunting used to be.
This discussion has reminded me of an incident that happened when I was 12 years old. Back in those days, the opening day of squirrel season was much anticipated, very similar to the excitement of the opening day of turkey season for many of us now. Opening day's party was comprised of me, my younger brother, my dad and my brother in law. Not to brag---but I always was and remain a proficient squirrel hunter. On this particular opening morning, I killed 12 squirrels with my side by side Stevens double barrel 12 gauge. My brother-in-law, by contrast, came back to the truck carrying two little squirrels in his left hand and a Ruger 10/22 rifle in his right. Well, as you can probably expect, the whole group gave him a good ribbing on his two measly squirrels and lauded my sack of 12 squirrels. Well—the brother-in-law got his feelings hurt and became defensive on being bested by a 12 year old kid. He claimed he was being "sporting" by hunting with a 22 rifle with out a scope and the fact that I had used a 12 gauge was cheating. My answer was a source of much humor and was repeated with around the community for several weeks. I told him—"Oh yeah—well--if you really wanted to be sporting you would have used a slingshot!!"
And so it goes here—deriding a person on the legal manner in which he chooses to hunt is—in my opinion—is a tad egotistical.
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on May 15, 2013, 04:10:45 PM
I think each tool has it's deserved place in the arsenal but i prefer to hunt decoyless and sans blinds. It's just a more pure form of hunting them.
The new generation of turkey hunters really concern me, though.
They rely exclusively on blinds, decoys and field set-ups. Can't call, don't know turkeys, dont know how to think like a turkey and don't know much about turkey hunting in general.
That last paragraph is how I see things now a days. I've been chasing em a little over 20 years and I'm only 32 now. Didn't need any of that stuff when I started out. Decoys and blinds have changed the game a ton. It has also been the cause of the explosion of the # of turkey hunters. They see how everyone on tv does it or even forums nowadays and think that's just how everyone hunts them. Rifles are legal here in Va but if I posted a rifle kill yall would want to grab the pitch forks. Everybody is so hung up on getting a kill instead of playing the game. I don't care how anyone hunts but to really be able to kill em consistently by really hunting them one on one, learning how they think, how to kill them no matter the breeding phase, just really understanding them to me is what its all about. Pulling the trigger is fun but the game itself is what its all about. Heck I missed one at 4 steps this morning I've been chasing all week. I would be lying if I said I don't feel sick to my stomach but just finally getting that chance was awesome
Quote from: turkey_slayer on May 17, 2013, 10:17:24 AM
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on May 15, 2013, 04:10:45 PM
I think each tool has it's deserved place in the arsenal but i prefer to hunt decoyless and sans blinds. It's just a more pure form of hunting them.
The new generation of turkey hunters really concern me, though.
They rely exclusively on blinds, decoys and field set-ups. Can't call, don't know turkeys, dont know how to think like a turkey and don't know much about turkey hunting in general.
That last paragraph is how I see things now a days. I've been chasing em a little over 20 years and I'm only 32 now. Didn't need any of that stuff when I started out. Decoys and blinds have changed the game a ton. It has also been the cause of the explosion of the # of turkey hunters. They see how everyone on tv does it or even forums nowadays and think that's just how everyone hunts them. Rifles are legal here in Va but if I posted a rifle kill yall would want to grab the pitch forks. Everybody is so hung up on getting a kill instead of playing the game. I don't care how anyone hunts but to really be able to kill em consistently by really hunting them one on one, learning how they think, how to kill them no matter the breeding phase, just really understanding them to me is what its all about. Pulling the trigger is fun but the game itself is what its all about. Heck I missed one at 4 steps this morning I've been chasing all week. I would be lying if I said I don't feel sick to my stomach but just finally getting that chance was awesome
True enough but if these yahoos want to set in a blind and hope they kill one then so be it. I myself will go out and run and gun till I find a bird and kill him the way I always have...by being adaptable and giving him what he wants till I give him the BIG BANG!!!
I prefer to run and gun, which mandates as light a load as possible. I have, however, had to make concessions due to age and physical problems. I use a red dot, since the eyes have a real problem finding the bead in anything but bright light. I also use a short blind which allows occasional movement of my legs and feet to keep my back from cramping. After a rotator cuff surgery, and then tearing it again, I put a pistol grip stock on my shotgun. I load only one shell in the gun, and won't take a shot past thirty yards. That keeps a little bit of the challenge in the game.
Well here we go again with the dreaded, "what is considered fair chase" debate. I totally agree with catdaddy. I don't mean to offend anybody, but when somebody tries to look down on other hunters because they use a blind or a decoy, you sound insecure and act like you have something to prove. My dad is 82 years old. We hunt in a blind, and with decoys. When he shot his bird this year he had tears in his eyes, he was so happy. Try telling him he's not a "true" turkey hunter or that he's missing out. We all have our methods of hunting and enjoy the sport the way we all choose to. I have strong feelings against certain methods that many here use and you would find my thoughts offensive, so I don't bring them up. The way I look at it, we have enough things dividing us these days. We have a government that would like to take our guns away and make hunting illegal. We need to stand united and try our best to focus on things that we all agree upon instead of bringing up polarizing issues.
Quote from: WildTigerTrout on May 17, 2013, 08:18:22 AM
Quote from: wmd on May 17, 2013, 12:16:36 AM
Quote from: WildTigerTrout on May 15, 2013, 05:12:13 PM
IMO way too many hunters rely on blinds and decoys. I'm teaching my son to hunt turkeys "Old School" without the use of either one. I have shotguns in 10,12 and 20 gauge. At some point during the season I hunt with all of them. I do NOT however use HTL shot. I shoot good old lead. The way some guys talk I wonder how we ever killed turkeys before HTL. I wish I had a nickel for everytime I have heard "How many pellets in 10" at 40 yards"? I believe woodsmanship and calling ability are much more important than hauling all that junk to the woods. Too many guys hunt from blinds with decoys so they can drink coffee, talk, text their friends,make phone calls, move around and have a picnic. They do everything except hunt. I am proud to say my 14 year old son and I both bagged mature longbeards this spring and we did it "Old School". Sorry for the rant, just my opinion. You may agree or disagree with it. Either way that's fine.
I guess I don't understand the, "technology has improved but I am still going to make it as difficult as I can for me and my kid" philosophy when it comes to hunters. I killed a bunch of turkeys with a 12 ga 1100, single bead fixed modified barrel, shooting 2 3/4" Remington Duplex 2x6 shells, because that is what I had to hunt with as a teenager & college kid. I sure wouldn't think of going in the woods with it now. I wanted to give my son every advantage I could when he started turkey hunting 2 season ago at the age of 10 and his first year he was able to kill 3 out of a blind shooting 20 ga Hevi-7s. The closest kill was 12 yards and the furthest was 40 yards. He killed 3 this year at the age of 11, one he was sitting in a Gobbler Lounger in the middle of a logging road, one he was sitting in a Gobbler Lounger in front of a big rock, and one from a blind. All three were shot right at 40 (+/- a few) yards as soon as they presented him with a clear shot. He and I were just as excited on the 6th one as we were with his first. We go turkey hunting to kill turkeys not to prove we are superior hunters in comparison to anybody else in regards to how we kill them. Keep doing what your doing if it makes you feel good. I think we are going to shoot 18 g/cm3 shot next year. :o
I want my son to experience the true essence of turkey hunting, not sitting in a blind and watching decoys! I want him to see the TRUE challenge.The way turkey hunting used to be.
So you guys are gonna walk to the woods instead of driving?
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on May 15, 2013, 04:10:45 PM
The new generation of turkey hunters really concern me, though.
They rely exclusively on blinds, decoys and field set-ups. Can't call, don't know turkeys, dont know how to think like a turkey and don't know much about turkey hunting in general.
Well said Kyle!!!
Keep in mind there is no "right" or "wrong" here. I think we all agree as long as it's legal, more power to you.
Some real interesting points have been brought up, one in particular about limited time to hunt. I think if you can hunt 30 days per season and you are loaded with birds.. maybe you want to create more challenge. However, if you can only hunt 1 or 2 times per season... or maybe don't have many birds.. you want to create the best possible opportunity.
Personally I have started taking a direction to less "stuff" But maybe I wouldn't if I could only hunt once per season or had very few birds.
By all means use what you want. In fact I wish everyone but me hunted with blinds and decoy's. I think everyone should have at least a dozen decoys and six blinds.
It's not so much as looking down on anyone, at least from point of view, but to really see you don't need any of that stuff. Just a call and shotgun will work. To have a bird coming looking for you not have his attention on something fake. Knowing when to time it when he goes behind an obstacle to move the gun, back against a tree and he blows your cap off when he gobbles, to see him the same time he can see you levels the playing field. No doubt I could have killed more birds if I had something to distract their attention but I still wouldn't change it. Just a personal preference how we all choose how to hunt but everyone needs to try it one on one just to experience it. I tried decoys one time. Part curiousity and part cause the guy as I was with had always used em. It took the one on one out of it for me when he popped up left and his gun was facing the decoy but sure enough the bird beelined right to it without him ever having to move. No decoy he would have had to constantly think how he was gonna get his gun shifted and also worry that the turkey was still searching instead of zoned in on the decoy.
To each his own!
That being said, I do not use blinds when gun hunting. To me, the rush is getting the bird close with only your skills in the woods between you and the bird.
Quote from: busta biggun on May 17, 2013, 11:14:18 AM
Well here we go again with the dreaded, "what is considered fair chase" debate. I totally agree with catdaddy. I don't mean to offend anybody, but when somebody tries to look down on other hunters because they use a blind or a decoy, you sound insecure and act like you have something to prove. My dad is 82 years old. We hunt in a blind, and with decoys. When he shot his bird this year he had tears in his eyes, he was so happy. Try telling him he's not a "true" turkey hunter or that he's missing out. We all have our methods of hunting and enjoy the sport the way we all choose to. I have strong feelings against certain methods that many here use and you would find my thoughts offensive, so I don't bring them up. The way I look at it, we have enough things dividing us these days. We have a government that would like to take our guns away and make hunting illegal. We need to stand united and try our best to focus on things that we all agree upon instead of bringing up polarizing issues.
Well said my brother. Well said.
Personally I dont use blinds or decoys. A couple years ago my wife started turkey hunting she went with me down to Tennessee just to "tag along" and see what it was all about. She stuck by my side run n gunnin sittin up with our backs against a tree and saw me take 3 TN public land gobblers. When it came time for her to hunt I set up a blind. A couple hours into the hunt she said " I don't like sittin in a blind, let's go get one fired up". That's all I needed to hear. Since then my wife has killed several longbeards and they've all been taken "old school" without use of blinds or decoys. Do I look down on using blinds or decoys? Absolutely not, it's just not for us.
I lived with my grandparents growin up and my grandad is 70 years old and still a flat out turkey killer. He started takin me hunting when I was 4 and he taught me a lot and I've learned a lot on my own along the way. For us it's just more exciting to go get em. Honestly I don't feel like I would've killed any more turkeys over the years if I had used a blind. That's just not how I hunt. But I will say theres been PLENTY of rainy days that I was soakin wet and cold and I'd be sittin there thinkin " I wish I had a damn blind."
About the only thing I don't agree with in turkey hunting is folks that hunt over bait, even If it is legal. (which it's not here in Ky) but other than that If it's legal and that's how you choose to hunt then by all means go for it.
(http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/OldGobbler1/DSD%20decoys/snow_zps1f6ae6a4.jpg) (http://s257.photobucket.com/user/OldGobbler1/media/DSD%20decoys/snow_zps1f6ae6a4.jpg.html)
I posted that picture above for illustrative purposes - you ask yourself what the heck does 3 guys holding up snow geese have anything to do with the topic of this thread ? well hear me out
These guys are hunting with newer method of hunting equipment - layout blinds in particular , I can assure you had they not been using some of the newer layout goose blinds , they ( or anyone ) would have not been goose hunting that day or any day , in fact in the last 10-15 years layout blinds have opened up goose hunting in areas never before possible - these guys are using all kinds of decoys , but the trend is the super realistic types - People are turkey hunting in wide open areas , just like this , in the the west and mid west , pop up blinds as people call them are a necessity , its either hunt in a blind or don't hunt , and these areas also dictate you use a decoy cause , if the gobbler doesn't see a hen , your odds just got worse , more like impossible - again ...areas where standard methods do not work .....that's why they use a layout or popup blind in these areas
Whats really giving blinds a bad rap is the abundance of horrible TV hunting shows that are shot on virtually infested hunting areas - this gives the general public that the blinds are some kind of stand off weapon that gives the user a unfair advantage - I live in Florid and Portable Blinds are so unpractical because of the temperature and geography , almost nobody uses them , many Florida hunters do however make Palmetto blinds out of about 10 fronds that stand about 30 inches high and have done so for decades - but anyways through out much of the south most guys wouldn't think of using a pop up blind because you can sit against a tree - People in Kansas and Iowa cant say the same , its use a blind or stay at home
Decoys like turkey calls have been refined , some companies have been making turkey decoys for 25+ years ---if someone doesn't like them ,(just like turkey calls ) don't use them ... In Florida just about everyone uses a decoy , not just for attraction purposes , but to keep hunters from walking up on your spot , you can see a decoy from 1/4 mile down a fire break and avoid that guy - for me ...Ive seen a fatal turkey shooting , and I will NEVER turkey hunt without a decoy ever , if anyone is getting shot its mr plastic - if anyone has seen what ive seen with my eyes you would probably think the same way - but hey to each their own
Turkey guns , I have hunted long enough , and shot thousands of waterfowl and a lifetime of gobblers to harbor the mentality of.... use reliable potent shooting equipment , and use common sense in taking proper shots , - using a powerful shotgun with a built in fudge factor , and knowing how it shoots is a very responsible train of thought in my book - There are a small handful of people out there trying to get 100 yard turkey shooting publicly acceptable , for me I feel confident in my ability not to have to feel the need to pursue that thought pattern -State Game departments have all kinds of hunting regulations many of them focus in on the weapon for safety purposes -
Shannon-J-Kelly
Quote from: spaightlabs on May 17, 2013, 02:43:06 PM
Quote from: WildTigerTrout on May 17, 2013, 08:18:22 AM
Quote from: wmd on May 17, 2013, 12:16:36 AM
Quote from: WildTigerTrout on May 15, 2013, 05:12:13 PM
IMO way too many hunters rely on blinds and decoys. I'm teaching my son to hunt turkeys "Old School" without the use of either one. I have shotguns in 10,12 and 20 gauge. At some point during the season I hunt with all of them. I do NOT however use HTL shot. I shoot good old lead. The way some guys talk I wonder how we ever killed turkeys before HTL. I wish I had a nickel for everytime I have heard "How many pellets in 10" at 40 yards"? I believe woodsmanship and calling ability are much more important than hauling all that junk to the woods. Too many guys hunt from blinds with decoys so they can drink coffee, talk, text their friends,make phone calls, move around and have a picnic. They do everything except hunt. I am proud to say my 14 year old son and I both bagged mature longbeards this spring and we did it "Old School". Sorry for the rant, just my opinion. You may agree or disagree with it. Either way that's fine.
I guess I don't understand the, "technology has improved but I am still going to make it as difficult as I can for me and my kid" philosophy when it comes to hunters. I killed a bunch of turkeys with a 12 ga 1100, single bead fixed modified barrel, shooting 2 3/4" Remington Duplex 2x6 shells, because that is what I had to hunt with as a teenager & college kid. I sure wouldn't think of going in the woods with it now. I wanted to give my son every advantage I could when he started turkey hunting 2 season ago at the age of 10 and his first year he was able to kill 3 out of a blind shooting 20 ga Hevi-7s. The closest kill was 12 yards and the furthest was 40 yards. He killed 3 this year at the age of 11, one he was sitting in a Gobbler Lounger in the middle of a logging road, one he was sitting in a Gobbler Lounger in front of a big rock, and one from a blind. All three were shot right at 40 (+/- a few) yards as soon as they presented him with a clear shot. He and I were just as excited on the 6th one as we were with his first. We go turkey hunting to kill turkeys not to prove we are superior hunters in comparison to anybody else in regards to how we kill them. Keep doing what your doing if it makes you feel good. I think we are going to shoot 18 g/cm3 shot next year. :o
I want my son to experience the true essence of turkey hunting, not sitting in a blind and watching decoys! I want him to see the TRUE challenge.The way turkey hunting used to be.
So you guys are gonna walk to the woods instead of driving?
Well now that you mentioned it, yes I can walk to the woods. My favorite turkey haunt is within walking distance of my house. I can leave my front yard and start hunting in about 5 or 10 minutes. :happy0064:
Geez. Do what it takes to legally/ethically kill a gobbler ad it is a trophy. Who cares what other people think.
Sometimes I use a blind, sometimes I use decoys. Sometimes I use a bow , other times I use 3.5 inch lead shot, sometimes hevi shot.
People, get off your high horses and get into the woods!
I rarely use a blind mainly because I don't want to carry it.... I use decoys in the field pretty much just to see the interaction... I have seen some pretty cool things with decoys... Had a jake try to breed my avian x hen and my avian x jake has taken quite a few beatings this year