Over the years we, as turkey hunters, have done an excellent job of getting out and patterning our guns at various ranges, normally at a maximum of 40 yards, to make sure we can cleanly and ethically kill a bird with one shot.
We have pretty much adopted the 10" circle to use as an area for comparison of one choke/load to another. Many of us also like to see a good "fringe" pattern of 14", 15" or even 20" around that 10" core pattern. We want to make sure that if we move or the turkey moves, we'll still have enough pellets in the right place to make the kill cleanly.
There are always many discussions about what the number of hits should be in that 10" circle. Many of us have some number that we consider to acceptable and many of us also consider the "quality" of the pattern and not just the "quantity" of the hits.
Over the past few years, I've established a standard for evaluation patterns to count the gaps in the pattern. I like to use a 1 1/2" circle to find the gaps. I move that circle around in the pattern to try to find any place that it will fit without touching holes made by the shot.
Since no pattern is perfect, I expect to see a few of those 1 1/2" circles, maybe even 5 or 6 of them. I do not consider any pattern that has gaps of 2" or more any place in them to be acceptable however, regardless of the number of hits within that circle.
I also only consider patterns shot at real-life turkey hunting temperatures to be helpful to me, since patterns shot in higher temperatures will be much more dense and have higher numbers.
In our part of the world, in both the spring and fall, that usually means that we hunt in temperatures that are in the 40s at most. When I pattern guns in those temperatures, I know how real hunting patterns will look.
With the seemingly ever increasing cost of shotshells, it appears that we should get as much meaningful information from each shell that we shoot as possible.
Your thoughts?
Thanks,
Clark
I like the idea of looking for gaps in the pattern in addition to numbers in 10". We all want an even pattern as possible with whatever concentration/range each individual has decided works for him/her or that they desire.
Not everyone can shoot well enough to make a tight shooting 10" pattern at 40 yards work either...age (young or old) , eyesight and optics all play a part. I went a little too far last year with the 10" circle numbers on my grandsons 20 gauge and it worked great for the 13 year old but the 12 year old missed birds because it was too tight for his shooting ability.
For hunting I want good 10" numbers and that's a good comparison with other folks on here to keep apples to apples so to speak , but I also want even coverage out about another 2 1/2" to 3" all around (15"-18" dia.) at 40. Do most of my shots come at 40yds....no...I think last year the average was about 30 yds for me but I want to be prepared for 40 when I need it.
Good post Clark. I completely agree with you. I am glad you bring this up because alot of emphasis is put on 10 inch numbers only.
Thanks for the post. I enjoy looking at pattern pictures with a bunch of holes in a 10" circle. But I've always thought that I, me personnally, would probably miss a few if my guns shot as tight as some of the patterns I've seen here. Especially up close.
I've often wondered what someone who is well versed in shotgun knowledge would consider as an "even" & acceptable pattern on the outside of that 10 inches out at 40 instead of just the number of pellets in a 10" circle.
Great post Clark!! Not only am I interested in good numbers in the 10" and 20" circle, but maybe more importantly, that there are very few, if no, areas where Old Tom can sneak his head through!! How was the NWTF Convention? Thanks, John
Good post - I like the concept
I had a idea some years ago but never really said anything about it till now
A #2 pencil or small dowel ,length and size of gobblers neck nerve/bone ? roll it across your pattern and see if at any point any of your pattern would miss it ?
Shannon, that's a novel idea!!! But i think one could use say a 3/8" - 7/16" dowel because that is actually what the diameter of the vertebrae are. John
Clark,
Really good point here. I saw another post where someone had used graph paper of one square per inch . They also have the 10 squares per inch as well, ie. rifle guys?
A few years back there was a documentary showing how many different ways a turkeys neck bone could be configured as you shoot. It is rarely a straight up and down spine that we see on some targets.
Also, all the shot do not reach the target at the same time so what actually hits the turkey may not be exactly as we see it on paper.
I have been an advocate of stating that a lot of shot going through the same hole is a waste of shot.
Therefore the evenness of a pattern helps me more than just knowing how many shot are in a certain area.
I agree, it is always nice to see a nice even pattern as opposed to a heavy 10" and scattered remainder. Gives me a little more wiggle room too.
I like numbers, but not at the sacrifice of pattern eveness and density. I want a 15" story at 40 yards not a certain number in the 10. I don't want a gobbler to be able to bob his head and my pattern miss him.
I don't know a lot so bear with me. I often wonder if the tighter the choke the longer the shot string? If the turkey weaves, bobs, ducks or decides he's had enough, then a shorter shot string with more shot arriving at the same time is much better. I some times think Patternmaster chokes has the better mouse trap. I have never read anybody comment on this choke. If anybody has information, please post. I like a pattern with good coverage in a fifteen inch circle at forty yards. I feel more comfortable taking the shot with some room for error. Many thanks, cluck
Quote from: cluck on February 19, 2013, 03:15:31 PM
I don't know a lot so bear with me. I often wonder if the tighter the choke the longer the shot string? If the turkey weaves, bobs, ducks or decides he's had enough, then a shorter shot string with more shot arriving at the same time is much better. I some times think Patternmaster chokes has the better mouse trap. I have never read anybody comment on this choke. If anybody has information, please post. I like a pattern with good coverage in a fifteen inch circle at forty yards. I feel more comfortable taking the shot with some room for error. Many thanks, cluck
A good question as to whether or not a certain choke causes a longer shot string. A 20 gauge in and of itself has a shorter shot string than a 12 gauge I am told.
Good post !! Thanks :z-winnersmiley:
Clark I love the 1.5"circle idea. I use the 3'' circle to find the densest pattern also. Any technique that helps evaluate a load is good. As far as shot string hurting the pattern I am less than convinced.
I would guess that a motionless turkey would be in the same spot when the end of the string hits him as the first of the load. Now with a duck/dove/quail flying past this may be a different story.
As soon as I get just a bit of time, I'll post a picture of a target that illustrates the patterns that I believe to be acceptable and the method that I'm using.
We're still in recovery mode from the Convention.
Thanks,
Clark
IMHO,
To get 13"-15" of good even coverage, it's not realistic to expect that all of the additional coverage will come from pellets that would have been outside of the 10" circle anyway. You have to accept that your 10" circle numbers will probably be lower, because that super dense 10" pattern has now been opened up to cover 13"-15".
Suppose you are getting 180-200 in the 10 with Magnum Blend. Are you willing to shoot Magnum Blend and drop down to 150-160 in the 10, in order to get more even coverage in the 15, by changing to a different choke constriction?
I like the idea of looking for holes in our patterns. That's just plain smart there Clark. I've always liked seeing pictures of evenly dispersed patterns. Lead will do a great job of that out to 35 Yards, all day long. But HTL works like magic to stretch what Lead does at 35, on out to 40, 45, etc.
Looking forward to your patterns.
Quote from: RAJ on February 19, 2013, 07:24:30 PM
Quote from: cluck on February 19, 2013, 03:15:31 PM
I don't know a lot so bear with me. I often wonder if the tighter the choke the longer the shot string? If the turkey weaves, bobs, ducks or decides he's had enough, then a shorter shot string with more shot arriving at the same time is much better. I some times think Patternmaster chokes has the better mouse trap. I have never read anybody comment on this choke. If anybody has information, please post. I like a pattern with good coverage in a fifteen inch circle at forty yards. I feel more comfortable taking the shot with some room for error. Many thanks, cluck
A good question as to whether or not a certain choke causes a longer shot string. A 20 gauge in and of itself has a shorter shot string than a 12 gauge I am told.
Raj...Are you sure about the 20? My thinking may be flawed here and he expers can straighten it out if I'm wrong but here goes: A standard 2 3/4" 12gauge load is 1 1/4 oz. To get this in a 20; you need a 3" shell and this starts the shot string already in a longer column than the 12. No idea what happens if you compare same length shells in the different gauges.
I like the 10" circle at 40 then a follow up with a vital target.
Quote from: Clif Owen on February 20, 2013, 07:04:50 AM
Quote from: RAJ on February 19, 2013, 07:24:30 PM
Quote from: cluck on February 19, 2013, 03:15:31 PM
I don't know a lot so bear with me. I often wonder if the tighter the choke the longer the shot string? If the turkey weaves, bobs, ducks or decides he's had enough, then a shorter shot string with more shot arriving at the same time is much better. I some times think Patternmaster chokes has the better mouse trap. I have never read anybody comment on this choke. If anybody has information, please post. I like a pattern with good coverage in a fifteen inch circle at forty yards. I feel more comfortable taking the shot with some room for error. Many thanks, cluck
A good question as to whether or not a certain choke causes a longer shot string. A 20 gauge in and of itself has a shorter shot string than a 12 gauge I am told.
Raj...Are you sure about the 20? My thinking may be flawed here and he expers can straighten it out if I'm wrong but here goes: A standard 2 3/4" 12gauge load is 1 1/4 oz. To get this in a 20; you need a 3" shell and this starts the shot string already in a longer column than the 12. No idea what happens if you compare same length shells in the different gauges.
I would think that you would have to keep shell length the same so that the max of a 2 3/4" load is generally 1 oz. - 1 1/8 . Let's get the experts as I noted that I have been told, not that I am certain.
You bring up good points as to shell length, load charge, choke used , etc.