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Larry Bell
Larry Bell, Contributor
I write about climate, energy, environmental and space policy issues.
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7/10/2012 @ 12:45PM |43,840 views
The U.N. Arms Trade Treaty: Are Our 2nd Amendment Rights Part Of The Deal?
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US President Barack Obama addresses the United...
US President Barack Obama addresses the United Nations General Assembly. "As a former lecturer in constitutional law, wouldn't President Obama realize that the U.N.'s gun- grab agenda violates our sovereign rights? Perhaps the answer to that question warrants some serious reflection. " (Image credit: AFP/Getty Images via @daylife)
One year ago I wrote an article titled "U.N. Agreement Should Have All Gun Owners Up In Arms" which has recently gained a great deal of renewed public interest. This update reviews some more recent developments, offering additional perspective about an immediate matter which should be of great concern to all who value rights guaranteed by our Second Amendment.
The Obama administration is actively engaged in negotiations to finalize details for a new global agreement premised to fight "terrorism", "insurgency" and "international crime syndicates". As U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon describes its purpose, "Our goal is clear: a robust and legally binding Arms Trade Treaty that will have a real impact on the lives of those millions of people suffering from consequences of armed conflict, repression and armed violence...It is ambitious, but it is achievable."
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Under the George W. Bush administration, the U.S. originally voted against a resolution that began the process in 2006. However, the current administration reversed that policy, and strongly supports its enactment. In January 2010, U.S. representatives joined with those of 152 other countries in endorsing a U.N. Arms Treaty Resolution to draft a blueprint for enactment in 2012. This activity is planned to be completed by July 27, and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has pledged to push hard for Senate ratification. Previously led by the United Kingdom, there can be no doubt that the U.N.'s 193-member General Assembly will approve it.
Foreign ministers of the U.K., France, Germany and Sweden want the treaty to cover all types of conventional weapons, notably including small arms and light weapons, all types of munitions, and related technologies. They also advocate that it include strong provisions governing human rights, international humanitarian law and sustainable development. (More about sustainable development later.)
U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for Internal Security and Nonproliferation, Thomas Countryman, has stated that the Obama administration does not support regulation of ammunition, but only wants to make it more difficult to "conduct illicit, illegal and destabilizing transfers of arms". In addition, a press release issued by the U.N. Office for Disarmament Affairs says that "The outcome will not seek to prohibit citizens of any country from possessing firearms or to interfere with the legal trade in small arms and light weapons."
Such statements have many very strong skeptics, both inside and outside Congress. One reason, among many, is that Iran, a country that is one of the world's worst human rights violators, yet often chaired the U.N. Human Rights Council...yes Iran, arms supplier to many of America's most determined adversaries... was selected for a top Arms Trade Treaty (ATT) planning conference position. The members, apparently including U.S. representatives, authorized this selection shortly after the same U.N. found the very same Iran guilty of transferring guns and bombs to the Syrian regime of Bashar Assad who is presently slaughtering thousands of its own citizens. Meanwhile, the U.N., America included, purporting to be distraught about illicit, illegal and destabilizing transfers of arms, watches in the wings as these tragedies unfold. Of course, they're very busy. Those arms control planning conferences require a lot of attention.
On June 29, 130 Republican House members sent a letter to President Obama and Secretary Clinton arguing that the proposed treaty infringes on the "fundamental, individual right to keep and bear arms". The letter charges that "...the U.N.'s actions to date indicate that the ATT is likely to pose significant threats to our national security, foreign policy, and economic interests as well as our constitutional rights." The lawmakers adamantly insist that the U.S. Government has no right to support a treaty that violates the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
Democrats have accused Republicans of making this a political issue, maintaining that the treaty poses no Second Amendment threat. Others, such as former U.N. ambassador John Bolton, caution gun owners to take this initiative seriously. He believes that the U.N. "is trying to act as though this is really just a treaty about international arms trade between nation states, but there is no doubt that the real agenda here is domestic firearms control."
So let's review some recent history and see if gun owners and other Second Amendment defenders might have very good reasons to take issue with this treaty. Actually, we don't have to look back very far at all.
Consider the Fast and Furious debacle, an operation that was represented to be all about targeting bad guys who are committing violent crimes on both sides of our border with Mexico. There can be no remaining doubt that the program was really aimed at border gun shops and their right to conduct legal civilian firearms sales.
And after the 2010 Republican House cleaning dashed President Obama's dream of a carbon cap-and-trade program, he wasted no time finding a way to circumvent that pesky obstacle. His EPA is gleefully pursuing that same anti-fossil energy agenda. Meanwhile, Congress sits idly by and allows this breach of its constitutional responsibility established by separation of powers to continue.
Then there's the currently proposed, Obama-endorsed, Law of the Sea Treaty (LOST) which would subordinate U.S. naval and drilling operations beyond 200 miles of our coast to a newly established U.N. bureaucracy. If ratified by Congress, it will grant a Kingston, Jamaica-based International Seabed Authority (ISA) the power to regulate deep-sea oil exploration, seabed mining, and fishing rights. As part of the deal, as much as 7% of U.S. government revenue collected from oil and gas companies operating off our coast will be forked over to ISA for redistribution to poorer, landlocked countries.
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Here's the second page...
The U.N. Arms Trade Treaty: Are Our 2nd Amendment Rights Part Of The Deal?
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The U.S. would have one vote out of 160 regarding where the money would go, and be obligated to hand over offshore drilling technology to any nation that wants it... for free. And who are those lucky international recipients? They will most likely include such undemocratic, despotic and brutal governments as Belarus, Burma, China, Cuba, Sudan and Zimbabwe...all current voting members of LOST.
Both President Bill Clinton and George W. Bush supported the treaty during their tenures, yet they never sent it to the Senate for ratification because of opposition over concerns that it will limit commerce and allow international bodies to wield control over U.S. interests. During W's term of office, then-Senator Joe Biden introduced LOST before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee he chaired in 2007, yet it was never brought to the floor for a vote.
Steven Groves, an international law fellow at the Heritage Foundation, believes that opposition from Republican members of Congress who have objected to LOST reflects a legitimate deep-seated distrust of the United Nations and other international bodies, observing: "This seems to me a bit of a Trojan Horse for the ability of one country to affect another country's environmental policy. That's generally something we do not like as conservatives and Americans."
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Given good prospects that the White House and Senate may have fewer Democrat residents after November, Senator Kerry and other proponents have been working hard to speed up the approval process before moving vans arrive.
But, like LOST, the Arms Trade Treaty can't be enacted unless Congress ratifies it. Right? And, of course, they would never approve any global agreement that will infringe upon our constitutional Second Amendment protections. Right? Well, let's assume for argument's sake that they won't. But now consider another possibility, something called a "soft law".
Remember that sustainable development agenda mentioned earlier that the European foreign ministers want to incorporate into the treaty provisions? Originally intended to be implemented in connection with a U.N. treaty, an "Agenda 21" plan was enacted as a soft law in 1993 creating a nongovernmental organization, the "International Council for Local Environmental Initiatives" (ICLEI), by Executive Order after the Clinton administration was unsuccessful in getting Congress to ratify the program. They wouldn't approve the treaty because it would transfer massive regulatory control over broad aspects of U.S. energy production and consumption. In 2003 the NGO's name was changed to "ICLEI- Local Governments for Sustainability" to emphasize "local" and diminish concerns about "international" influence and associations with U.N. political and financial ties. ICLEI's are now active in most of our counties On its web page, "ICLEI: Connecting Leaders", the organization explains that their networking strategy connects cities and local governments to the United Nations and other international bodies.
Agenda 21 envisions a global scheme for healthcare, education, nutrition, agriculture, labor, production, and consumption. A summary version titled AGENDA 21: The Earth Summit Strategy to Save Our Planet (Earthpress, 1993), calls for "...a profound reorientation of all human society, unlike anything the world has ever experienced—a major shift in the priorities of both governments and individuals and an unprecedented redeployment of human and financial resources." The report emphasizes that "This shift will demand a concern for the environmental consequences of every human action be integrated into individual and collective decision-making at every level."
ICLEI's web page states that its Local Agenda 21 [LA21] Model Communities Programme is "designed to aid local governments in implementing Chapter 28 of Agenda 21, the global action plan for sustainable development." As Gary Lawrence, a planner for the city of Seattle and an advisor to the Clinton-Gore administration's Council on Sustainable Development and to U.S. AID commented at a 1998 U.N. Environmental Development Forum in London titled "The Future of Local Agenda 21 in the New Millennium", "In some cases, LA21 is seen as an attack on the power of the nation-state." He went on to say, "Participating in a U.N. advocated planning process will very likely bring out many...who would work to defeat any elected official...undertaking Local Agenda 21 ...So we will call our process something else, such as comprehensive planning, growth management or smart growth."
And so they have. "Comprehensive planning", "growth management" and "smart growth" (which is Agenda 21 with a new name). All mean pretty much the same thing... centralized control over virtually every aspect of urban life: energy and water use, housing stock and allocation, population levels, public health and dietary regimens, resources and recycling, "social justice" and education.
So this time the U.N.-sponsored ATT initiative, whether enacted by Congress or through a soft law Executive Order, can be expected to receive an appealing identity as well. Most likely it will purport to protect us from "terrorism", "insurgency" and/or "international crime syndicates". Perhaps, without saying so, it will be pitched to protect us even from ourselves.
Don't forget that an Illinois senator named Barack Obama was an aggressive advocate for expanding gun control laws, and even voted against legislation giving gun owners an affirmative defense when they use firearms to defend themselves and their families against home invaders and burglars. That was after he served on a 10-member board of directors of the radically activist anti-gun Joyce Foundation in Chicago which contributed large grants to anti-Second Amendment organizations.
But then, as a former lecturer in constitutional law, wouldn't he certainly realize that the U.N.'s gun- grab agenda violates our sovereign rights? Perhaps the answer to that question warrants some serious reflection!
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Wow...Really surprised...no actually dumbfounded! No comments on something so fundamental to the enjoyment of our sport/way of life/individual freedoms???
Obama = socialism , a.k.a the downfall of liberty-
when they take our guns away , there will be nothing left to stop tyranny
Agreed Gobbler...Him and Hillary. The part that's most concerning to me is that our Senate is for sale (witness the "Affordable healthcare" fiasco). Will they cave? Will "O" and admin. initiate some kind of sidestep maneuver like an "executive order" or something similar? Will they make an offer that the Senators can't/won't refuse?
I'm going to guess they will ratify it...I hope I'm wrong but look at the healthcare initiative...overwhelmingly opposed by the electorate but pushed through with bribes and arm twisting...Look at Fast And Furious. A baldfaced attempt to frame firearms dealers as illegal traffickers as a vehicle to enact firearms legislation, even while negotiating an arms treaty to curtail the sale of illegal arms! They've proven themselves untrustworthy...Like I say, I hope I'm wrong...
Hell No.
Again...Dumbfounded... ???
That is unreal....we better get him out in November
We need to get him and a BUNCH of others out! Check how your Rep. and Senator vote on issues important to you...Trade, gun rights, budget, taxes , etc. Go to www.senate.gov...You can find how your Senator voted on any issue...They're generally not in our corner...
Obama = Muslim :z-winnersmiley:
:smiley-patriotic-flagwaver-an
It is the terrorist in the White House that needs to go along with his group of communist senators and congress people! Too bad so many want to bury their head in the sand like was done when Hitler tried to wipe out an entire race while the do gooders stood by and in essence cheered him on until those with a back bone stopped his madness. Folks this can happen right here in the good old USA!!!!!!!!!!!
I read in another piece where the university of Chicago basically denied that he was a full time professor, but rather more of a part time constitutional law lecturer. Problem is that every time he quotes the constitution he gets it wrong.
This hasn't gone away ladies and gents...They're still promoting this agenda. Finalizing and tidying up right now for potential passage...
This country voted in the people in office not once but twice. That goes to show we are the minority now. They will have to take em by force is all I got to say
The Russians and North Koreans and, I think Iran saved us for the moment. They voted no on the treaty...Now it goes to the general assembly. They need a 2/3's vote which they'll likely get. "O" has committed the U.S. Next it'll go to the U.S. Senate for ratification.
Write your Senator and tell him/her in no uncertain terms how you feel and that you will make every effort to vote out any Rep. who endorses ratification! Do it people! It'll make a difference!
Ladies and gentlemen...We have a treaty!!!
The U.N. General Assembly voted 154 to 3 in favor of the arms treaty (23 abstentions)...Next for us (the U.S.) it goes to the U.S. Senate...If you value U.S. sovereignty and your right to bear arms, I would suggest an email to your Senator demanding that he/she vote against adopting it...This is HUGE stuff!!!
This has nothing to do with your right to bear arms. This has to do with the sale of arms, and not to individual US citizens.
Loosen the straps on the tinfoil hat.
Keep the pressure on them or you will wish you had!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Remember Obummer care!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: spaightlabs on April 02, 2013, 05:28:57 PM
This has nothing to do with your right to bear arms. This has to do with the sale of arms, and not to individual US citizens.
Loosen the straps on the tinfoil hat.
There is nothing in the treaty that excludes small arms or specifically protects our constitutional rights. The preamble mentions but has no force of law...The treaty specifically requires signatories to develop a national record keeping system to track the trade in conventional arms. Does this sound something like gun registration?
As for the tin foil comment...You might want to keep up with what your Reps. are doing to you and in your name... jealously guard your second amendment rights as the forefathers advised.
I'm guessing you trust and believe your Pres. and Reps.? The same ones who engineered the demise of Glass Stegal and took us off the gold standard, leading directly to our present economic situation...The ones that promoted free trade and sent our jobs to third world countries? The same ones who allowed a group of bankers to commandeer our entire financial system via the Federal Reserve Act...The same gov't reps. who sent Kermit Roosevelt to Iran in the 1950's to defeat by disinformation and murder and threats of murder, a freely elected democratic gov't and caused the eventual rise of the Ayatollahs that we deal with today?
Look bud, I'm not stupid and I don't lend my thinking to unwarranted alarm. I look at these things with a distrusting eye in view of facts and an informed knowledge of history...I don't wear a "tin foil hat" but I do "think" and I can "see."
Quote from: sixbird on April 02, 2013, 09:10:25 PM
Quote from: spaightlabs on April 02, 2013, 05:28:57 PM
This has nothing to do with your right to bear arms. This has to do with the sale of arms, and not to individual US citizens.
Loosen the straps on the tinfoil hat.
There is nothing in the treaty that excludes small arms or specifically protects our constitutional rights. The preamble mentions but has no force of law...The treaty specifically requires signatories to develop a national record keeping system to track the trade in conventional arms. Does this sound something like gun registration?
As for the tin foil comment...You might want to keep up with what your Reps. are doing to you and in your name... jealously guard your second amendment rights as the forefathers advised.
I'm guessing you trust and believe your Pres. and Reps.? The same ones who engineered the demise of Glass Stegal and took us off the gold standard, leading directly to our present economic situation...The ones that promoted free trade and sent our jobs to third world countries? The same ones who allowed a group of bankers to commandeer our entire financial system via the Federal Reserve Act...The same gov't reps. who sent Kermit Roosevelt to Iran in the 1950's to defeat by disinformation and murder and threats of murder, a freely elected democratic gov't and caused the eventual rise of the Ayatollahs that we deal with today?
Look bud, I'm not stupid and I don't lend my thinking to unwarranted alarm. I look at these things with a distrusting eye in view of facts and an informed knowledge of history...I don't wear a "tin foil hat" but I do "think" and I can "see."
Very well said. This is not paranoia. It is very real. We are a sovereign country with our own Constitution and Bill of Rights. We have no business entering into agreements with a group that give control of our freedom (any freedom) away. This can only end poorly for us. We need to pull out now.
Sent from my Motorola RAZR MAXX using Tapatalk 2
Unamerican !!!!!!! :TrainWreck1:
Apparently a few Senators have reservations...
Home » Mike Lee Hammers the Final Nail in The UN Small Arms Treaty Coffin
6 hours ago by Dean Garrison
Mike Lee Hammers the Final Nail in The UN Small Arms Treaty Coffin
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molon labe
Since March Madness is in full swing and Obama was able to completely fill out his tournament brackets, I believe a basketball visual is in order. Barack Obama is galloping loose on a fast break with the wonderful athletic grace that only "The Big O" can display. There is a quickening of his stride and growing determination in his eyes. As he powers toward the rack, from out of nowhere, Mike Lee rises like the Kraken and towers like Godzilla to slap the ball 20 rows up into the stands. Rejected Mr. President. A quick taunt from Mike Lee is in order as he waves his index finger to signal that you must come strong or not at all Mr. President.
Don't hate the player. Hate the game.
It's over. The fat lady is in full chorus. As for all the basketball stuff? This is what happens when a blogger is deprived of sleep. So what on earth am I talking about?
On Wednesday Senator Mike Lee became the 34th co-sponsor of S. Con. Res 7, a resolution expressing opposition to the United Nations Arms Trade Treaty (ATT). The treaty contains several troubling provisions that could prevent the United States from coming to the aid of its closest allies, as well as limit the constitutional rights of Americans. Senator Lee was the 34th co-sponsor of the resolution introduced by Senator Jerry Moran of Kansas, which gives the opposition more than enough votes in the Senate to block ratification of the treaty.
"The United Nations Arms Trade Treaty is deeply flawed, which is why a majority of senators recently voted to stop the administration from continuing to push it," said Senator Lee. "I have great concerns that this treaty can be used to violate the second amendment rights of American citizens, and do not believe we should sign any treaty that infringes on the sovereignty of our country. I am pleased to join 34 of my colleagues in signaling to this administration that the UN-ATT is a non-starter in the senate."
As of Tuesday the resolution had 33 co-sponsors but it was Lee who officially put the final nail in the coffin. The UN-ATT requires 67 Senate votes to ratify and now the maximum possible number of votes in favor of the treaty would be 66. It is now officially a "non-starter."
Joining Lee (R-UT) in co-sponsorship of the resolution are: Lamar Alexander (R-TN), Kelly Ayotte (R-NH), John Barrasso (R-WY), Max Baucus (D-MT), John Boozman (R-AR), Richard Burr (R-NC), Tom Coburn (R-OK), Thad Cochran (R-MS), John Cornyn (R-TX), Saxby Chambliss (R-GA), Mike Crapo (R-ID), Ted Cruz (R-TX), Mike Enzi (R-WY), Deb Fischer (R-NE), Jeff Flake (R-AZ), Chuck Grassley (R-IA), Orrin Hatch (R-UT), Dean Heller (R-NV), John Hoeven (R-ND), James Inhofe (R-OK), Johnny Isakson (R-GA), Mike Johanns (R-NE), Joe Manchin (D-WV), Jerry Moran (R-KS), Rand Paul (R-KY), Rob Portman (R-OH), Jim Risch (R-ID), Pat Roberts (R-KS), Marco Rubio (R-FL), Jeff Sessions (R-AL), John Thune (R-SD), Pat Toomey (R-PA), David Vitter (R-LA) and Roger Wicker (R-MS).
The resolution, introduced by Senator Jerry Moran of Kansas, quickly gained support of 33 fellow Senators.
"The passage of a treaty that Iran, Syria, and North Korea have made clear they have no intention of abiding by will only serve to constrain law-abiding democracies like the United States," Sen. Moran said. "The U.S. Senate is united in strong opposition to a treaty that puts us on level ground with dictatorships who abuse human rights and arms terrorists, but there is real concern that the Administration feels pressured to sign a treaty that violates our Constitutional rights. Given the apparent support of the Obama Administration for the ATT, members of the U.S. Senate must continue to make clear that any treaty that violates our Second Amendment freedoms will be an absolute nonstarter for ratification."
We have seen this President pull rabbits from his hat before so I am not sure this is over. I don't believe this will miraculously make it through the Senate but don't be surprised if "The Big O" gets the referees to call a delayed foul. He always has a plan and that's what scares us. We may not agree with the man but he is highly intelligent and may resort to unimaginable measures to try to take America's guns.
Yesterday we reported that Steve Stockman has guaranteed a "blue slip" for the Senate gun legislation. That bill is dead on arrival when it reaches the House, if it reaches the House at all. Now we know that the UN measures cannot possibly pass constitutional muster. Where does this leave us?
The only remaining way to take our guns is to declare a state of emergency and order martial law. Under martial law the constitution is suspended. Will Obama go that far? I think most of you know what I think. DHS is buying all of the bullets for something.
MOLON LABE!
Read more: http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/04/mike-lee-hammers-the-final-nail-in-the-un-small-arms-treaty-coffin/#ixzz2PXcyeJUy
All of you who think that nothing like tyranny can happen here...Listen to this guy...He's been there...
http://youtu.be/N1ABw6IMKn0
I think this should be brought up again in light of recent developments on the gun front as well as the IRS/AP/EPA/Benghazi scandals...Can we trust this gov't with ANYTHING???
And here's something for the people who subscribe to the idea that some who question are "tin hat" wearing alarmists:
/ National Security /
Obama Scandals: The Tinfoil Hat Brigade Were Right?
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By Mark Mayberry / 7 June 2013 / 166 Comments
TinfoilhatSo we all know one of these people. They all know that Barack Obama isn't a natural born U.S. citizen, their cellphone is being spied on, and the IRS is auditing them for no reason. I like to call them the Tinfoil Hats. Well, it appears now that they could have been right all along. We now know that they are two for three at least on this list.
In the last few weeks we have watched with amazement as one scandal after another has been unearthed about the shadowy side of the government and it's various co-conspirators. We have listened to various everyday citizens as they have recounted excessive targeting and invasive personal questioning by the Internal Revenue Service. We have also seen the Justice Department's Gestapo like tactics against certain journalists and the Associated Press.
But now, today, we are faced with a whole new situation. The NSA apparently has received a warrant from what is being called a "secret court", also known as a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, to compel Verizon Wireless to turn over all records of calls both domestically and internationally.
I would love to know how a FOREIGN intelligence court is able to compel domestic records.
This is very alarming. This data collection is set to continue into the middle of July unless the court of origin extends it. This gives the government the freedom to snoop on the cell phone calls of an estimated one in three Americans. There is no targeting of records for specific suspects, this is just my phone records or your phone records and the National Security Agency is free to go through them at their leisure.
Another disturbing issue here is that the NSA has an explicit charter to operate outside the United States and not to carry out surveillance on American citizens. However, one of the documents obtained by the UK newspaper who broke the story shows that the NSA has gone around their restrictions by having the FBI compel the records and then granting access to the NSA.
Quote from: spaightlabs on April 02, 2013, 05:28:57 PM
This has nothing to do with your right to bear arms. This has to do with the sale of arms, and not to individual US citizens.
Loosen the straps on the tinfoil hat.
Not to be rude but this has nothing to do with tinfoil hats. I suggest you pay attention to what our government is doing. This with the other things mentioned above looks like a scary pattern to me.
The first time I saw obama I knew he was bad news. :OGturkeyhead: :fud:
well...well...well. we have a few people wakeing form dreamlalnd. They think all this is something new. They think oboma did it. Nice to see folk wakeing but its about 50 years too late. Those thugs have controled this country for years. Only reason they are so blantant about it now is that they know they can't be stopped. They own both parties. They own the media (fox included, don't be fooled.) IRS, Homeland security, Department of energy, department of education, EPA, Department of justice, DFAC, transportation, agriculture, immigration, health & human services. All we have is the tea party. On the other hand, Washington didn't have much did he.
Quote from: sixbird on April 09, 2013, 01:07:18 PM
All of you who think that nothing like tyranny can happen here...Listen to this guy...He's been there...
tyranny is here. What does it take?
Quote from: coyote1 on June 08, 2013, 07:31:52 PM
Quote from: spaightlabs on April 02, 2013, 05:28:57 PM
This has nothing to do with your right to bear arms. This has to do with the sale of arms, and not to individual US citizens.
Loosen the straps on the tinfoil hat.
Not to be rude but this has nothing to do with tinfoil hats. I suggest you pay attention to what our government is doing. This with the other things mentioned above looks like a scary pattern to me.
Be rude, be loud and don't give up...This stuff is scary and it definitely has a pattern...
Quote from: longspur on June 10, 2013, 01:25:03 PM
well...well...well. we have a few people wakeing form dreamlalnd. They think all this is something new. They think oboma did it. Nice to see folk wakeing but its about 50 years too late. Those thugs have controled this country for years. Only reason they are so blantant about it now is that they know they can't be stopped. They own both parties. They own the media (fox included, don't be fooled.) IRS, Homeland security, Department of energy, department of education, EPA, Department of justice, DFAC, transportation, agriculture, immigration, health & human services. All we have is the tea party. On the other hand, Washington didn't have much did he.
Well longspur, I'm glad to hear you say that...For the most part, I can't disagree...From Nixon, who took us off the gold standard. He said, "Let me lay to rest the bugaboo of what is called devaluation...". Now we all know first hand what devaluation is at this point and we can lay that at Nixons' feet.
Clinton who told us that North American Free trade Agreements were good for the country...Are you or your children looking for a job right now? Bet if you are, you're over qualified/under employed, if you're employable at all.
Clinton who also finalized the demise of Glass/Stegal, the post depression law that disallowed investment firms from doing banking...You all know how that ended up...Too big to fail investment banks...
Then Bush II with the Patriot Act which enabled the Feds. to look at your bank records, your library records, your computer actions and allowed them to search your home, even if you aren't home all with no requirement to notify you. Actually all this can be done without your knowledge, AND the holders of those records can be forbidden at jeopardy of violating federal law from telling you...
Add to this the Grounds and Improvement Authorization Act which prohibits you from protesting against gov't policy within a certain distance of the Pres. or anyone he designates. That was Obama...
Then the Defense Authorization Act that allows indefinite detention, without trial, or charges, anyone, including U.S. citizens, who are SUSPECTED of ties to terrorism...That was "O" also...
Now add the abuses to constitutional protections from the NSA (data gathering on a massive scale without cause...Violation of your 4th amendment protections), targeting of conservatives (insert any group according to which clowns are running the circus) by the IRS/EPA/Justice Dept.
Add laws disallowing criticism of candidates within a certain time frame of elections...Go down the list...
The only thing I have to take exception to is the Fox News statement...Of all the mainstream "news" organizations, Fox is essentially the only one willing to pursue abuses...Fox correspondents are basically THE ones who question Jay Carney and press him on the dismissive excuses that the admin. use to justify their actions (Benghazi/IRS/EPA/AP, etc.). I do occasionally hear them defending admin., but rarely...
So, I have to agree overall on the complicity of the media on covering up abuses and corroborating admin. excuses/lies...
Regarding Fox News and their pursuit of truth...Just tonight watching O' Reilly. I heard him disparaging Snowden (the NSA contractor who divulged the data collection apparatus). Said he hasn't divulged any specific information...That may be true BUT, my question is, why would a guy give up his liberty, family, home country and subject himself to possible prosecution as a traitor or worse, the real possibility of being assassinated, if he had no information that was incriminating?
So...Maybe I'll qualify on Fox News and say they at least make an attempt at keeping gov't in line...
I warn people and talk about this alot on FaceBook. Great place, getting the government to hear us..lol. Yeah, this has been in the making for a very long time. It's all part of the NWO and only way to take full control, citizens will have to be disarmed fully. Yeah hunting will even be outlawed. Many people are finally awaken but many are still part of the blind culture. I love how Joe Biden says this does not effect hunters. Well we know better and other fellow hunters and gun owners should also. It's sad to see fellow hunters and gun owners getting sucked in to these lies. They still exsist around us. Not many but there are stil ones that dont want to see the real truth.
I can't disagree...If you look at it in it's totality. The laws that have been instituted such as the ones I've cited plus the recently adopted granting of control of all resources and manufacturing and banking,police, etc. in the event of a national emergency, to the Pres. (what constitutes a national emergency is solely left the interpretation of the Pres.)
All the "Free Trade" agreements that diminish us as a nation and individually. And the debasement of our currency.
The rulings that describe your bank deposits as "loans" to the bank and "legally" unsecured (meaning you're one of the last in line to collect upon default...Of course derivatives are secured) and that the FDIC only has enough reserves to cover a small percentage of depositors.
The obvious press to disarm the citizenry and the unabashed abuse of power by D.O.J. ...And then the lies...
The mainstream press ignoring and covering for the admin.
The push for U.N. control in the form of Agenda 21 and the Small Arms Treaty and the complicity of the U.S. gov't.
The admitted agenda of the Bilderberg Group to promote a single one world gov't and the fact that essentially every Pres. in recent times being invited to their meetings, along with some of the most powerful people in the world from all walks including media, education, big business, military, clergy, gov't,and finance...Think they're talking turkey hunting?
Could it be that they're setting up to take advantage of a crisis of their own creation? I don't know...I do know that if there is a crisis, they have put in place some really ingenious ways to take advantage of it...
It's a matter of record that it has happened in the past (look up the banking connection to the beginnings of W.W. II, the false flag in the Gulf of Tonkin that, for all purposes started the Vietnam war and the history of the Iranian transition from freely elected democratic rule to the Shah and consequently to the Ayatollahs and the current regime, owing to civil disorder and murder promoted and funded by the U.S gov't in 1954)...It has happened so our gov't is absolutely capable...
Scary times gents!
Quote from: sixbird on June 10, 2013, 04:16:27 PM
Quote from: coyote1 on June 08, 2013, 07:31:52 PM
Quote from: spaightlabs on April 02, 2013, 05:28:57 PM
This has nothing to do with your right to bear arms. This has to do with the sale of arms, and not to individual US citizens.
Loosen the straps on the tinfoil hat.
Not to be rude but this has nothing to do with tinfoil hats. I suggest you pay attention to what our government is doing. This with the other things mentioned above looks like a scary pattern to me.
Be rude, be loud and don't give up...This stuff is scary and it definitely has a pattern...
I just didn't want to be booted from the forum, I like it here. With that said, it amazes me how many people still don't see what is going on in this country. We have been losing freedom for years and just recently it seems new bills/laws are being pushed through at an alarming rate. What's happening here is not much different than Nazi Germany in the hitler era. We have gun control bills constantly threatening our gun ownership rights and ridiculous laws that make people felons that don't deserve it. This is so the public is disarmed. They are spying on our computers and phones so they know who doesn't believe their crap and may stand against them. The government is trying to control the hours you can work at a job by making employers put everyone on part time because insurance through Osama care is sky high in price. This effectively represses people so they depend more on the government. They have stockpiles of ammo and armored vehicles in all major cities and what they call the citizens army to keep us under control when the time comes. This is just the tip of the ice burg, so for the folks that don't understand this WAKE UP. This is very real and coming faster than I ever anticipated.
I so agree. Btw, noticed how the DHS is bulkin up on their ammo, weapons, troops, armored trucks, and so on. I believe this is their force to be sent out after we resist when Obama gives the UN full control. Not only will or the UN sends out troop to disarm us, the DHS, FEMA, and the rest of those Agents under Obamas commands, will also join the UN. Yes, we are the last line of defense, right after unorginized Militias. It's sicking how they rather sell us for all that Middle Eastern oil.
Coyote1 and shotgunsniper...Agreed, but, in my opinion, it's more the banks and the brokerage houses, multinational businesses and the new world order guys (Bilderberg, Tri Lateral Commission and The Bank for International Settlements to name a few) who are the drivers.
Oil is still problematic but becoming less and less a middle eastern issue (we're developing our own)...I think that issue (middle eastern) is more a function of our aggression in regard to securing resources and nation building, which I think is all related to the New World Order and enforcing the U.S. Dollar reserve currency status.
It's ugly and I don't know that it can be easily stopped...
It pains me to see this oasis of free thought and expression destroyed for the avarice of a few...
Securing resources and NATION building...
Don't know why this forum won't let me say NATION building...
nation building...
Why can't I say nation?
Nation...
Agreed. Btw, I got called a stupid Liberal by, Im assuming another Conservative, on FB. Im usually agreed with by fellow Conservatives but not sure where that came from..lol I guess he misread a comment I made on a Conservative page. I do get alittle politically sarcastic sometime's....lol
I agree. The new world order is not needed here. If our government was made up of true americans these issues would not exist. What true American would relinquish power to a foreign power (the u.n.)?
O.k.... Found out why I couldn't use the word that describes our collection of states, regarding our aspirations toward forming foreign gov'ts sympathetic to the U.S.
Apparently someone was using that word in a way that was disparaging this site so it can't be used, temporarily...So insert that word in my text just before "building."
That is interesting, that would be the last word I would think of not being able to use. I think you are right this can not be easily stopped and the whole situation in this country is so far gone it may be too late to turn it around.
Agreed as to stopping it...In the reporting on the latest revelations about the surveillance activities of the NSA, brought to light by Snowden (the NSA whistleblower described by the admin. as a traitor), information became public regarding the surveillance center being built in Utah. Billions have been invested...Don't think they're going to turn that into a theme park...
Little or no coverage has been given to the center outside of Washington or the one in Texas or the one in Phila. or Georgia or Hawaii and the listening centers Lord knows where... They're just the ones that I know about...Good luck dismantling those!
We're shot out of a gun and the "powers that be" are going to continue to pursue that agenda...Scary stuff!
Quote from: coyote1 on June 13, 2013, 02:29:05 AM
That is interesting, that would be the last word I would think of not being able to use. I think you are right this can not be easily stopped and the whole situation in this country is so far gone it may be too late to turn it around.
This is what I've been thinking for a long time. Think about this. What we know only scratches the surface. This is by far the most corrupt government there has ever been on earth. They just haven't come out of the closet yet. Don't give up, all is not lost yet. There are a few fighters comming along. Look what Harry's Governor did. Everybody should read Washington the Crossing. He had very little hope.
Quote from: longspur on June 14, 2013, 04:02:16 PM
Quote from: coyote1 on June 13, 2013, 02:29:05 AM
That is interesting, that would be the last word I would think of not being able to use. I think you are right this can not be easily stopped and the whole situation in this country is so far gone it may be too late to turn it around.
This is what I've been thinking for a long time. Think about this. What we know only scratches the surface. This is by far the most corrupt government there has ever been on earth. They just haven't come out of the closet yet. Don't give up, all is not lost yet. There are a few fighters comming along. Look what Harry's Governor did. Everybody should read Washington the Crossing. He had very little hope.
Agree with you all. So corrupt, Russia and China is even sayin that they never thought America would ever be like this. Now coming from those 2 countries, you know it's bad. And I noticed how laws are gettin so tight now days. Only in Communist countries would one be arrested for speakin out against their government. Look how this government is starting to do the same. They have stepped on the 1st amendment sooo much, it's only half of what it used to be. And for the 2nd, well if it was not for the NRA, other gun rights orgs, and Conservative gun owners, we would not even have that one. It's soo sad how we have to fight for our rights in our own country now days. Thats why they say our men and women in the US armed forces are doing everyday. It just sickens me.
Here's an interesting discussion on the issue of gov't surveillance and the implications regarding free press, the constitution and gov't accountability...We should all educate ourselves on these issues since, if we have no background, we only regurgitate whatever media outlets tell us...
I try to view things through the prism of constitutionality, not as interpreted by the courts but as it was written...
http://youtu.be/cKmkxptPLSw
Snowden deserves to be put in prison? They would kill him 1st. He know's way too much to keep alive. He would be spilling his guts in prison. Obama can't have that, now can he? Btw, the way, I seriously love how Obama say's he is for the poor and he has pulled all the fund's to help them. The opposite day president is what he is. Everything that come's out of his mouth to the media is what he does the opposite of. Only the blind will keep supporting such a liar. What is he getting them in return? Yeah, I would like to know because he has not showed anything. And where is all this money that should be helpin the poor or the one's having hard times? Funding our enemies with it. How can anyone in the right mind support such a so called leader? Sorry had to rant.
This entire issue has been framed by the media in the context of what Snowden did wrong...Well, the way I see it, the spotlight should be shown in the opposite direction. Here is an agency (NSA) that has absolutely subverted the fourth amendment, without question! And the media is on a hunt to convict the only guy who had the courage to expose it!
Look at what they're doing to Bradley Manning and what they've done to Julian Assange...Both, people who have been courageous enough to expose what our gov't has been doing under the cover of secrecy...
Agreed. It's sad to see Russia lookin like the good guy over our country now days. Snowden is in good hands over there. That's is crazy for me to say this. Yeah, it's got that bad.
Here's a telling description of that issue...
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/1017060_512685305480372_694550449_n.jpg
Quote from: sixbird on June 28, 2013, 06:56:05 PM
Here's a telling description of that issue...
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/1017060_512685305480372_694550449_n.jpg
LOL, that's too funny. Sad but true though.