Initial reports state that the Supreme Court upheld obamacare. So, where do we go from here? As I understand, they stated that it can be viewed as a tax, which is within the constitutional rights of the government to impose on its subjects... I mean citizens.
Basically what the Supreme Court did is passed the buck onto the states but the Federal Gkvernment can't force the states to participate in the massive expanded medicare system and the Federal government cannot penalize the states that choose to not participate. In reality Obama lost unless you live in a state that choices to participate in the Affordable Health Care Act. Essentially it's a Catch 22 decision.
As much as I didn't want to see this upheld and was shocked that Roberts sided with the libs (on this and Arizona), could this be a good thing for Gov. Romney come November, considering the fact that Obama will be showboating and campaigning on his "success" when the majority of Americans were against it?
Also, it seems the Fed Gov can force/penalize states if they don't abide by this law. When they enacted the seat belt law back in the 70's, Reagan held back federal highway funds from the states that wouldn't enforce the seat belt laws. The states had no other alternative, but to enforce them. They could do the same with this, no?
So hopefully the majority of Americans will see this as going against the WILL OF THE PEOPLE when it comes time to pull the lever in November!
There all turds floating around in a punch bowl!
The government has no business stepping into our health care period! They bankrupted Social Security and Medicare so why would we want them handling this!
Ask anyone who lives in Canada what they think of having gov regulated health care. I have been told some long waiting list stories for treatment that are scary How would you like to wait 6 months just to see a knee specialist and then another 8 months before they could do the surgery?
But, I thought that Obama said this wasn't a tax, remember.
So if it wasn't a tax, how can the Supreme Court uphold it as a tax.
You mean to tell me Obama lied and it was actually a tax....I'm shocked
We are screwed people.
It is becoming more difficult to be patriotic about our country when they keep taking away our liberties. I do not like what our country is becoming. Maybe it time that liberal states and conservative states go their own separate ways.
I just listened to a sound clip of an interview that george stephanopolis did with obama. In this interview, obama condemns stephaopolis for looking up the definition of a tax in order to make an argument. obama then goes on to flatly deny that obamacare is a tax.
This is the very basis that the supreme court used (judge john roberts) to uphold obamacare, claiming it was a tax, and thereby constitutional. If you can stand to watch and listen to 5 minutes of obama, you can watch for yourself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL7ak__MGyw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL7ak__MGyw)
e author=Stoner link=topic=27083.msg288133#msg288133 date=1340907414]
It is becoming more difficult to be patriotic about our country when they keep taking away our liberties. I do not like what our country is becoming. Maybe it time that liberal states and conservative states go their own separate ways.
[/quote]
:icon_thumright:
:agreed:
Quote from: Stoner on June 28, 2012, 02:16:54 PM
It is becoming more difficult to be patriotic about our country when they keep taking away our liberties. I do not like what our country is becoming. Maybe it time that liberal states and conservative states go their own separate ways.
Stoner,
See my caption of the Bonnie Blue Flag. That is the flag that was immediatley hoisted over the capitol in MS when we declared independence from the union.
We tried that approach 140 years ago and we lost. If we couldn't pull it off then we sure can't pull it off now. What is amazing is that we have 9 people that are appointed to a position of immunity and guaranteed that position until death or retirement (SUPREME COURT). Romney needs to use this to his advantage and expose Obama for the socialist he has been all along.
Just for the fun of it, take a look at how the stock markets react by the end of the day. Dow Jones Industrial Average was down over 160 points within 3 hours of the supreme court decision. How is it that only politicians don't seem to get it that this is a bad deal for all of us?
Quote from: TeocTom on June 28, 2012, 02:43:47 PM
Quote from: Stoner on June 28, 2012, 02:16:54 PM
It is becoming more difficult to be patriotic about our country when they keep taking away our liberties. I do not like what our country is becoming. Maybe it time that liberal states and conservative states go their own separate ways.
Stoner,
See my caption of the Bonnie Blue Flag. That is the flag that was immediatley hoisted over the capitol in MS when we declared independence from the union.
We tried that approach 140 years ago and we lost. If we couldn't pull it off then we sure can't pull it off now. What is amazing is that we have 9 people that are appointed to a position of immunity and guaranteed that position until death or retirement (SUPREME COURT). Romney needs to use this to his advantage and expose Obama for the socialist he has been all along.
Tom,
I was going to respond to Stoner with an eerily similar post. Sure is funny how close this President's support base comes from the same geographic area our ancestors opposed 150 years ago.
At some point in time the people who are being ignored will have to stand together and fight for their rights. If enough people could organize and stop paying taxes to the corupt government our voices would then be heard.
BOHICA
Bend Over, Here It Comes Again!
America has become a country of mindless sheep following along with the other mindless sheep while the rich get richer and the non-working class (notice I didn't say poor) get more and more of the working classes tax money. I cannot believe this farce was upheld. I agree with the poster that was shocked that Roberts voted for it?
Obama is now the daddy of the biggest tax hike in American history, after saying time and time agan its not a tax. That may not fly over very well for him, and some are saying it will be much eaisier to repeal and won't need a filibuster proof senate. Not that its a good thing but whats done is done and we now know the Supream Court won't uphold the constitution.
Also Obama is the biggest Idiot this country has ever known.
Put his brain in a crow and he'd fly backwards.
Obama will ultimately go down as the worst Communist, Muslim President in our history and will hold that title for many centuries to come. The only cure is to vote him out and remove "any liberals and Commies" from positions of power this year and in the future!
Remember that the Congress and the Senate voted with him and we now control the congress as we need to do in the Senate and the White House. It may mean we do not like the replacements totally but if they fix this boondoggle Obama created then it will be worth it. But we must vote and get out friends to do so also!!!!!
Quote from: mossy835 on June 29, 2012, 10:53:11 AM
Obama will ultimately go down as the worst Communist, Muslim President in our history and will hold that title for many centuries to come. The only cure is to vote him out and remove "any liberals and Commies" from positions of power this year and in the future!
Remember that the Congress and the Senate voted with him and we now control the congress as we need to do in the Senate and the White House. It may mean we do not like the replacements totally but if they fix this boondoggle Obama created then it will be worth it. But we must vote and get out friends to do so also!!!!!
Yep, and we need to quit all the third part junk and voting for people (Rand Paul) that are not even in the hunt. We have Paul bots in MS that are going to vote for Paul even though he isn't even on the ticket. Remember a vote not for Romney is a vote for Obama
Quote from: mossy835 on June 29, 2012, 10:53:11 AM
Obama will ultimately go down as the worst Communist, Muslim President in our history and will hold that title for many centuries to come. The only cure is to vote him out and remove "any liberals and Commies" from positions of power this year and in the future!
Remember that the Congress and the Senate voted with him and we now control the congress as we need to do in the Senate and the White House. It may mean we do not like the replacements totally but if they fix this boondoggle Obama created then it will be worth it. But we must vote and get out friends to do so also!!!!!
^This^
It's tough to really know what was going through Robert's mind to arrive at the "it's a tax" to make the law legal when time and time again, Obama and his lawyers claimed it wasn't a tax.
I maybe taking a huge leap here with my thoughts but here it goes...............
Roberts didn't want the public to view the court as partisan with all of the decisions as of late. AND he really didn't want to vote in favor of the law.........BUT even more so, he didn't want Obama getting re-elected in November. So in a purely political move and knowing that the public doesn't want this law, he comes up with the "tax" definition making it legal realizing that it will ultimately strengthen the conservative base and push those independents and democrats that might have voted for him if the law had died to vote for Romney. Roberts must be confidant that the public will vote Romney as President who will then work to kill Obamacare with a newly elected conservative Senate and House.
I know...........thats a stretch.
But approving this law will have long lasting, destructive effects for years and years to come. This now means that there is NOTHING that the government can't tax you on. NOTHING.
I believe Abraham Lincoln said this..........."America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves".
We are seeing that happen now.
I wish I could be there when they haul one of your rear ends into the emergency room when you heart stops beating..each and everyone of you will be singing a different tones on that day...you'll be begging for someone, anyone to help you so that you can see you family again... YOU'D better read what it actually says before unleashing all the hate mongering again. Ever had a loved one denied health care by an insurance company when they needed something!! Ever had a friend thrown off insurance when they got sick!! So, you don't think it's good to be able to keep your kids on while their in school. It's just like car insurance, everyone pays and when you need it, it will be there. I'm getting tired of paying my families plan while you pay nothing and run to the emergency room everytime one your kids gets hurt or your stupidity gets yourself hurt. THINK before some of you open and spew for this venom to each other. By the way, you don't like big government but you use the electricity, roads, bridges, communication system that it had provided you...I'm beginning to think there's some serious mental stated on this board!!! GEEEEZZZZZ...I wonder if you'll care in that emergency room when the Nurse or Doctor is a LGBT when their saving your life...what a collection of HYPOCRITS!!
Quote from: Grunt-N-Gobble on June 29, 2012, 02:53:07 PM
It's tough to really know what was going through Robert's mind to arrive at the "it's a tax" to make the law legal when time and time again, Obama and his lawyers claimed it wasn't a tax.
I maybe taking a huge leap here with my thoughts but here it goes...............
Roberts didn't want the public to view the court as partisan with all of the decisions as of late. AND he really didn't want to vote in favor of the law.........BUT even more so, he didn't want Obama getting re-elected in November. So in a purely political move and knowing that the public doesn't want this law, he comes up with the "tax" definition making it legal realizing that it will ultimately strengthen the conservative base and push those independents and democrats that might have voted for him if the law had died to vote for Romney. Roberts must be confidant that the public will vote Romney as President who will then work to kill Obamacare with a newly elected conservative Senate and House.
I know...........thats a stretch.
But approving this law will have long lasting, destructive effects for years and years to come. This now means that there is NOTHING that the government can't tax you on. NOTHING.
I believe Abraham Lincoln said this..........."America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves".
We are seeing that happen now.
This is exactly what I was hoping for when I heard how he cast his vote. I hope he knows what he is doing. :smiley-patriotic-flagwaver-an
Quote from: Frankinthelaurels on June 29, 2012, 04:29:40 PM
I wish I could be there when they haul one of your rear ends into the emergency room when you heart stops beating..each and everyone of you will be singing a different tones on that day...you'll be begging for someone, anyone to help you so that you can see you family again... YOU'D better read what it actually says before unleashing all the hate mongering again. Ever had a loved one denied health care by an insurance company when they needed something!! Ever had a friend thrown off insurance when they got sick!! So, you don't think it's good to be able to keep your kids on while their in school. It's just like car insurance, everyone pays and when you need it, it will be there. I'm getting tired of paying my families plan while you pay nothing and run to the emergency room everytime one your kids gets hurt or your stupidity gets yourself hurt. THINK before some of you open and spew for this venom to each other. By the way, you don't like big government but you use the electricity, roads, bridges, communication system that it had provided you...I'm beginning to think there's some serious mental stated on this board!!! GEEEEZZZZZ...I wonder if you'll care in that emergency room when the Nurse or Doctor is a LGBT when their saving your life...what a collection of HYPOCRITS!!
Frank,
I can only speak for myself, but I do pay for my insurance. I have paid for my own health insurance all of my adult life. The insurance I have paid for covered the births of my 3 daughters, the youngest now 16. It has covered the numerous times they have been to the ER and walk-in clinics. It has paid for medications required for myself, my wife and my kids over the past 20 some years. The insurance I have paid for has covered my cancer treatments several years back and continues to pay for follow-up appointments. I'm guessing that since you encourage all of "us" to read the healthcare act, you have read all of the 2,700 pages of the bill, word for word before you went on this tirade? Did you read it before it was passed or after it was passed along with nancy pelosi?
My parents are now both retired. My mother worked as an office manager in the healthcare industry for over 30 years. I have a bit of insight into the healthcare field. As they age, a big concern for me with this healthcare garbage is that obama wants to go to a one payer plan. This WOULD in fact include panels to evaluate the most "bang for the buck" as far as spending for treatment. My dad has had both knees replaced, both shoulders replaced, back surgery and quadruple bypass surgery, all covered by health insurance paid out of pocket through insurance plans purchased through their employers. With such evaluation panels, I'm concerned that if my dad needs another surgery, they won't find it worth my tax dollars to pay for that surgery, as his more healthy and productive years are behind him.
Don't pretend to know the people here that you don't agree with. Nobody is forcing you to stay.
Quote from: Frankinthelaurels on June 29, 2012, 04:29:40 PM
I wish I could be there when they haul one of your rear ends into the emergency room when you heart stops beating..each and everyone of you will be singing a different tones on that day...you'll be begging for someone, anyone to help you so that you can see you family again... YOU'D better read what it actually says before unleashing all the hate mongering again. Ever had a loved one denied health care by an insurance company when they needed something!! Ever had a friend thrown off insurance when they got sick!! So, you don't think it's good to be able to keep your kids on while their in school. It's just like car insurance, everyone pays and when you need it, it will be there. I'm getting tired of paying my families plan while you pay nothing and run to the emergency room everytime one your kids gets hurt or your stupidity gets yourself hurt. THINK before some of you open and spew for this venom to each other. By the way, you don't like big government but you use the electricity, roads, bridges, communication system that it had provided you...I'm beginning to think there's some serious mental stated on this board!!! GEEEEZZZZZ...I wonder if you'll care in that emergency room when the Nurse or Doctor is a LGBT when their saving your life...what a collection of HYPOCRITS!!
Dude, you need to calm down. First of all, 99.99999999% of the members here are conservative. Second of all, your comment,
"I'm getting tired of paying my families plan while you pay nothing and run to the emergency room everytime one your kids gets hurt or your stupidity gets yourself hurt."
is completely ASSININE! I don't have a number on how many members pay a family plan, I know I do, but you are way out of line with that comment.
If you don't enjoy our nice conservative turkey hunting forum, I'm sure there are plenty of Left Wing, Kool-Aid drinking forums out there for you to peruse.
For some ignorance is bliss, Obamanation care is not going to fix anything but it will cause a great medical system to go under (Just look at the mess social security is in) so with that said I am working on the repeal of Obummer care meaning oh no another sick person Obummer no money left what are we going to do. Well how about taking care of your self! If it is serious out here a hospital before the idiot messed up the system has to take you in and give you medical attention. It is Obummer that has distorted why we do need to fix some things like (Shyster Lawyer law suits - gee he is one of those) and that is called tort overhaul where the shysters know just how much to ask for to get a payoff. In my youth we happily called them ambulance chasers, now I call them losers!
Frank
I am 50% Canadian and over half my family lives in Canada. The governmental health care of Canada has in the last year denied my aunt an angioplasty saying its not worth trying to give it to her even though she needs it, should the government make that decision? in the US she could get it done. At any time this lack of care could cause her to die when she needs this procedure. This will happen in America eventually if Obamacare continues.
Quote from: Frankinthelaurels on June 29, 2012, 04:29:40 PM
I wish I could be there when they haul one of your rear ends into the emergency room when you heart stops beating..each and everyone of you will be singing a different tones on that day...you'll be begging for someone, anyone to help you so that you can see you family again... YOU'D better read what it actually says before unleashing all the hate mongering again. Ever had a loved one denied health care by an insurance company when they needed something!! Ever had a friend thrown off insurance when they got sick!! So, you don't think it's good to be able to keep your kids on while their in school. It's just like car insurance, everyone pays and when you need it, it will be there. I'm getting tired of paying my families plan while you pay nothing and run to the emergency room everytime one your kids gets hurt or your stupidity gets yourself hurt. THINK before some of you open and spew for this venom to each other. By the way, you don't like big government but you use the electricity, roads, bridges, communication system that it had provided you...I'm beginning to think there's some serious mental stated on this board!!! GEEEEZZZZZ...I wonder if you'll care in that emergency room when the Nurse or Doctor is a LGBT when their saving your life...what a collection of HYPOCRITS!!
I certainly understand the idea behind it. Nobody should be financially ruined by getting cancer or needing an organ transplant. And I understand that just because I have insurance now does NOT guarantee that my insurance company won't drop me or price me right out of my plan, because they can and do leave responsible folks hanging with $500,000 bills....so the requirement to insure (at a reasonable rate) regardless of pre-existing condition is wonderful. Now for that to work, price fixes will have to be put in place, so hospitals can no longer charge $50 for aspirin, and such. I don't know how (or if) that is being addressed in this new healthcare plan, but without it, the plan is destined to fail. Much like the bank bailouts, where there were no requirements to loan out the bailout cash...the banks just sat on it. Unfortunately, I imagine the only insurance companies that stay in business will be the ones that can best milk the system.
Oh yeah...and the funding of this plan is so convoluted. How would any business owner be able to plan around it, especially with the so-called "Cadillac tax" on generous existing plans? "You get to keep your existing plan." Bull-fuggin'-sh$t! Sure you can keep it, but you will charged an excise tax on it...and that's only IF your employer chooses to continue to offer it.
Personally, I would probably be more convinced into supporting a single-payer system (I know, I know) than the clusterfudge we're being fed now. If I'm gonna get pi$$ed on, I'd rather not hear that it's raining. This "it's not a tax, it's a tax, it's not a tax, it's a tax" crap is just ridiculous. No matter how this turns out, in my book, NOBODY WINS!
Have a nice Saturday! :D
And on a lighter note...
"If Obama can force you to get health insurance just by calling it a tax, than there is nothing to stop him from making you gay marry an illegal immigrant wearing a condom on a hydroponic pot farm powered by solar energy." -- Stephen Colbert
Quote from: stinkpickle on June 30, 2012, 11:59:50 AM
And on a lighter note...
"If Obama can force you to get health insurance just by calling it a tax, than there is nothing to stop him from making you gay marry an illegal immigrant wearing a condom on a hydroponic pot farm powered by solar energy." -- Stephen Colbert
You're exact right. Now the Feds can force you to buy anything by calling it a tax. Kinda reminds me of what created the birth of this country in the beginning when the British taxed the hell out of the colonies. We have no liberties and we the people are not going to stand for it.
Years ago I was laughed at (not to my face) for saying what we need is a Boston style tea Party! Well not so funny now is it. I agree with StinkPickle on the catastrophic illness as it happened to us with my father back in the 50's when he had a stroke and was crippled for life, we lost everything.
Sensible people know the medical industry needs an overhaul and things need to change but not this monstrosity we now have to deal with to make two mediocre politicians look good (Senator Kennedy and the first black president).
There may be some good ideas in the plan but overall it is a socialistic boondoggle that will ruin health care and shut down many businesses that feed your families. Come November we need three things:
1. Maintain control of the house
2. Take control of the Senate
3. Take over the White House
When this is done the President will have to toe the mark as we can influence and control his decisions (the President) like it or not if that does not happen we are in for more hard times beyond your imagination!!!!
The Libs better hope that the feedup right don't decide that they've had enough and rise up cuz I'll betcha the right has more guns than the left and are more than happy to use them.
It was quoted in all the history books I read in school (The South will rise again). Maybe it is time? :z-guntootsmiley:
Quote from: coyotetrpr on July 01, 2012, 12:13:12 AM
It was quoted in all the history books I read in school (The South will rise again). Maybe it is time? :z-guntootsmiley:
If the history books would be corrected like they should,it would show the heavy hand of Washington DC on the south was one of the major factors in the civil war...not slavery as some would want us to believe.
Quote from: Sherrell on July 01, 2012, 08:34:27 AM
Quote from: coyotetrpr on July 01, 2012, 12:13:12 AM
It was quoted in all the history books I read in school (The South will rise again). Maybe it is time? :z-guntootsmiley:
If the history books would be corrected like they should,it would show the heavy hand of Washington DC on the south was one of the major factors in the civil war...not slavery as some would want us to believe.
Yep, it was about Taxes, not slaves.
???I thought this was a site where you talked Turkey not a bunch of political BSSS. Take the good stuff out of Obamacare and throw the rest out and replace it with something else. This is the exact same health care that Romney got passed in Mass. and now he says its a bad deal??? Both the Republicans and Democrats are eating the same pig slop, both parties are full of crap. This year is the biggest yet for Freshman congressman, 155 new congressmen were elected in this term. Lets see if they try to change anything. I say vote them all out and set two terms to serve and no retirement and no benefits for the politicans, let them taste some of their own medicine.
Quote from: Will Shaver on July 01, 2012, 11:44:46 AM
. I say vote them all out and set two terms to serve and no retirement and no benefits for the politicans, let them taste some of their own medicine.
:icon_thumright:
Quote from: Will Shaver on July 01, 2012, 11:44:46 AM
???I thought this was a site where you talked Turkey not a bunch of political BSSS. Take the good stuff out of Obamacare and throw the rest out and replace it with something else. This is the exact same health care that Romney got passed in Mass. and now he says its a bad deal??? Both the Republicans and Democrats are eating the same pig slop, both parties are full of crap. This year is the biggest yet for Freshman congressman, 155 new congressmen were elected in this term. Lets see if they try to change anything. I say vote them all out and set two terms to serve and no retirement and no benefits for the politicans, let them taste some of their own medicine.
Yes but people learn and that may be why he now feels it is bad. We have discussed this and other issues since I joined this site if it bothers you don't read or participate in the thread if it does not then welcome.
:wave:
Quote from: Frankinthelaurels on June 29, 2012, 04:29:40 PM
I wish I could be there when they haul one of your rear ends into the emergency room when you heart stops beating..each and everyone of you will be singing a different tones on that day...you'll be begging for someone, anyone to help you so that you can see you family again... YOU'D better read what it actually says before unleashing all the hate mongering again. Ever had a loved one denied health care by an insurance company when they needed something!! Ever had a friend thrown off insurance when they got sick!! So, you don't think it's good to be able to keep your kids on while their in school. It's just like car insurance, everyone pays and when you need it, it will be there. I'm getting tired of paying my families plan while you pay nothing and run to the emergency room everytime one your kids gets hurt or your stupidity gets yourself hurt. THINK before some of you open and spew for this venom to each other. By the way, you don't like big government but you use the electricity, roads, bridges, communication system that it had provided you...I'm beginning to think there's some serious mental stated on this board!!! GEEEEZZZZZ...I wonder if you'll care in that emergency room when the Nurse or Doctor is a LGBT when their saving your life...what a collection of HYPOCRITS!!
I'm beginning to think that there is one kook on here for sure....and it is you. Are you trying to get kicked off? I don't think anyone reading your posts is going to believe that you are particularly educated or smart, or that you understand the problems when you buy into big lefty socialists' talking point of "something must be done, this is something, and therefore, it must be done."
And what is it with the reference to lesbian and gay doctors? Are you keeping something in the closet that you don't want to tell us?
Further, what is it with allegations that people here are riding free with no insurance and taking kids to the ER? The group here is hardly poor and is not an ostensibly suspect group for searching out a free ride. Haven't you noticed they don't like Dimocrats. :TooFunny: :TooFunny:
Do you want an effective mandate without expressly legislating for one? I can tell you lefties how to have one, and that is to repeal the Emergency Medical Treatment And Active Labor Act. Eliminate that burden on hospitals and insured patients, which presently forces treatment of uninsureds and reallocating the cost to paying customers. Then, get out of the way and allow people with some sense to further reform poverty entitlements including welfare, foodstamps, govt housing, govt subsidized housing (HUD 362, Section 8, etc.), school lunches, Cellfare phones, Medicaid, etc., and place interim and lifetime limits so people cannot be lifetime freeriders. Make them work and provide for themselves and their family and provide their own insurance. Eliminating those freeriders would be an excellent start. But liberals will never stand for it because they do not want to give up the patronage that buys votes for them. They saw how union membership fell in WI when the unions lost the battle there, and the consequent loss of campaign funding. The public unions there will never be the same, and the Dimocrap party never will be either because it lost the battle, lost the union money, and lost votes due to lost morale.
Then, fix the problems that actually need to be fixed instead of giving liberals and their cronies in govt agencies so much more control over the economy and our personal lives. Healthcare has gotten progressively worse over the 50 year or so that the federal govt has gotten involved in it. Every time it does something new, it forces providers to hire more staff that don't provide healthcare or generate revenue but merely add to overhead to deal with all the regulations. Go into a doctor's office and count the people that provide services for patients and then count the staff that does pre-certification, billing/coding, collections, etc. It is way out of balance, and it can all be traced back to govt intervention.
The problems that need fixing affect maybe 10% of the population, and it makes no sense to wreck the entire system and give control to the govt in an effort to work on the 10% problem.
Socialism /Communism does not work - this is a proven fact -this article has several fundamental postures that look to closely resemble Socialism -
look at the issues in Europe right now and let the issues that face them serve as a prime example -%25 unemployment in Spain - we should try and steer well clear of mimicking their mistakes - heath care needs reform or regulation possibly , accountability with unfair distribution of payment and abuse {free riders} the %10 mentioned in the post above - but not this
Britain's NHS only kills off 130,000 old people per year with socialized care.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2161869/Top-doctors-chilling-claim-The-NHS-kills-130-000-elderly-patients-year.html#ixzz1yK7gbr7D
This was an article on another site. Couldn't get the link to work, but this is a copy and paste of the article. Interesting points and I for one am very glad the court took the position they did. Taxes can be repealed, but back stepping and reining congressional power under the commerce clause is another thing all together. The Supreme Court has to work within 200 years of established precedent when making decisions and even if a ruling seems to have one immediate effect, it may actually have another effect down the road. Roberts didn't close the door on anything with this ruling. If anything he left the door open for repeal, and if the question came back up after repeal the court could deny cert on political question doctrine.
If I ever get to meet Justice Roberts I'll gladly buy him a cold one.
Before you look to do harm to Chief Justice Roberts or his family, it's important that you think carefully about the meaning – the true nature — of his ruling on Obama-care. The Left will shout that they won, that Obama-care was upheld and all the rest. Let them.
It will be a short-lived celebration.
Here's what really occurred — payback. Yes, payback for Obama's numerous, ill-advised and childish insults directed toward SCOTUS.
Chief Justice Roberts actually ruled the mandate, relative to the commerce clause, was unconstitutional. That's how the Democrats got Obama-care going in the first place. This is critical. His ruling means Congress can't compel American citizens to purchase anything. Ever. The notion is now officially and forever, unconstitutional. As it should be.
Next, he stated that, because Congress doesn't have the ability to mandate, it must, to fund Obama-care, rely on its power to tax. Therefore, the mechanism that funds Obama-care is a tax. This is also critical. Recall back during the initial Obama-care battles, the Democrats called it a penalty, Republicans called it a tax. Democrats consistently soft sold it as a penalty. It went to vote as a penalty. Obama declared endlessly, that it was not a tax, it was a penalty. But when the Democrats argued in front of the Supreme Court, they said 'hey, a penalty or a tax, either way'. So, Roberts gave them a tax. It is now the official law of the land — beyond word-play and silly shenanigans. Obama-care is funded by tax dollars. Democrats now must defend a tax increase to justify the Obama-care law.
Finally, he struck down as unconstitutional, the Obama-care idea that the federal government can bully states into complying by yanking their existing medicaid funding. Liberals, through Obama-care, basically said to the states — 'comply with Obama-care or we will stop existing funding.' Roberts ruled that is a no-no. If a state takes the money, fine, the Feds can tell the state how to run a program, but if the state refuses money, the federal government can't penalize the state by yanking other funding. Therefore, a state can decline to participate in Obama-care without penalty. This is obviously a serious problem. Are we going to have 10, 12, 25 states not participating in "national" health-care? Suddenly, it's not national, is it?
Ultimately, Roberts supported states rights by limiting the federal government's coercive abilities. He ruled that the government can not force the people to purchase products or services under the commerce clause and he forced liberals to have to come clean and admit that Obama-care is funded by tax increases.
Although he didn't guarantee Romney a win, he certainly did more than his part and should be applauded.
And he did this without creating a civil war or having bricks thrown through his windshield. Oh, and he'll be home in time for dinner.
Brilliant.
That all sounds good but if you do not buy they can tax you as a penalty and why then all of the new IRS agents lined up and panting to take your money?
No I would not buy him a beer I still believe he switched sides and left us hanging again but that is just my opinion.
Kylongspur88, that editorial is spurious. People can fantasize about anything they want and pat themselves on the back, but that does not make it true or correct. If calling it a tax and forcing Obama to live with it is such a great thing, why didn't the other 3 conservative justices and Kennedy jump on board?
The result: Govt cannot rely on the commerce clause to force you from a state of inaction to activity but it can rely on a "tax" that the drafters and advocates said was not a tax and by dint of Supreme Court miracle can force you from inaction to action under the Tax and Spending Clause. Just wonderful.
All the Dimocrat talking heads have been on the Sunday news shows stating with a straight face that it's not a tax and it's time to move on.
Frank, you seem to be a confrontational person in general. A few weeks back, you made a smartass comment on a classified item that I had listed. If you don't like it here, leave. I highly doubt anyone on here will lose any sleep. Perhaps your point of view would be better received by those who are "occupying" Wall Street.
Quote from: Old Gobbler on July 01, 2012, 04:08:35 PM
Socialism /Communism does not work - this is a proven fact -this article has several fundamental postures that look to closely resemble Socialism -
look at the issues in Europe right now and let the issues that face them serve as a prime example -%25 unemployment in Spain - we should try and steer well clear of mimicking their mistakes - heath care needs reform or regulation possibly , accountability with unfair distribution of payment and abuse {free riders} the %10 mentioned in the post above - but not this
Socialism works GREAT-------- until you run out of other peoples money!
Quote from: GSLAM95 on June 28, 2012, 11:50:18 AM
There all turds floating around in a punch bowl!
The government has no business stepping into our health care period! They bankrupted Social Security and Medicare so why would we want them handling this!
Ask anyone who lives in Canada what they think of having gov regulated health care. I have been told some long waiting list stories for treatment that are scary How would you like to wait 6 months just to see a knee specialist and then another 8 months before they could do the surgery?
My Daughter lives there...Healthcare is free but POOR quality...If you go to the hospital, you're well advised to hire a nurse to come into the hospital to give adequate care...There's a reason we have the best healthcare in the world...
Quote from: CASH on June 28, 2012, 06:26:11 PM
BOHICA
Bend Over, Here It Comes Again!
:agreed: sad but true!