Ok. Just a few weeks ago, a thread appeared about the most difficult Public land turkeys to kill. Well, I said Mississippi and Florida. I will prove my Mississippi point:
Got in tight this morning(less than 70 yards). I never said a word to him. Set up on a huge pine tree. He pitches out in my direction and i am stoked. He doesn't stop to smell the roses or stretch his wings. No strutting. He is in a hurry to go somewhere. He has not spotted me. I made 3-4 note soft yelp to stop him for a shot at 45 yards, and he takes off like the dang "Road Runner" !!!!!!!!!!!! BEEP BEEP BEEP!!!! I let loose a load of Hevi 7s to no avail.
What say you Mississippi Public Land Hunters? Is this one call shy or what? I would say he has heard it and seen all before!
I may have to put some Hevi shot in his feet before it's all said and done!
It sounds like he might have been spooked before you ever made a call by how you are saying he didnt want to hang around.
Hard to tell, but I'd wonder if he hadnt seen something he didnt like from the tree or right after flydown before you made the call.
No. He is a Mississippi Public land bird. Nothing spooked him but my soft yelps. Lots of hunters in the area this year, but I was the only hunter there today. I way in and out down a gated off road, 1 mile walk. He pitched out and was behind a tree. He started walking fast, not spooked, until I called softly!!!
Man, those dang Mississippi public land birds sound tough!!!
If he wasn't call shy now he prolly is with that hevi load going by him
Yep. When the 7s barked, he hit a gear i have rarely seen in nature!!! It didn't help much when i took off down thru the woods and he saw me!!! He then hit a 3rd gear and made a 90 degree turn!!!! I really educated him!!!
That's OK. No one else will likely get him until he and i reunite!
:newmascot:
Ive never experienced a bird running from a call, not even bad ones and Ive made my share of those. Had to be something else.
HC
Quote from: Hardcore on March 25, 2012, 09:48:17 PM
Ive never experienced a bird running from a call, not even bad ones and Ive made my share of those. Had to be something else.
HC
Mississippi public land birds are born to run from the call....
Well, I can tell you from first hand experience with those Ms public land birds that being call shy is just the half of it. I've seen them run at the sound of a call, fly straight up in a tree at the sound of a call, and even found them still in the tree on up in the morning scared to pitch down. Usually after the first week they have seen and heard it all, and I'm not just talking about calling either. They definitely have a fear of getting out of bed in the morning. The best luck I've had with those birds is usually around noon or after when the threat of getting their snood blown off has somewhat diminished. Good luck, those are for sure some tough birds to kill.
I honestly can't say if he was call shy or not, I'm sure many are there as elsewhere too?
But to me, it seems like that bird didn't like something from the get go? I only say this, because if he truly was unaware of anything, and even if he was call shy, most would react with nervously looking around before scramming? You said he immediately ran from the call, I'm guessing this just reassured his first suspicion, that something was wrong to begin with?
I have witnessed them turning away at the sound of yelping numerous times..
I deal with those by just clucking/purring/scratching..
"call shy" does this mean a gobbler would turn and run from a real hen if he couldn't see her, even without looking first.
HC
Turkeys don't run from turkey sounds or they would starve to death from running so much :toothy12:. There has to be more to it
Agreed, turkeys dont run from turkey sounds unless they are afraid of turkeys. If you are a good caller, and i assume you are, he simply cannot tell the difference. I have two theories. One, he is a shy bird that has had his arse kicked a few times and wants no trouble that might come in the form of a hen attracting another gobbler nearby, or possibly by trying to call softly, you slowed your cadence enough it sounded like gobbler yelps. Gobbler yelps arent always coarse, but they're def slower and lots of folks sound more like gobblers than hens when they call. When in doubt speed up the cadence. Just a theory, only the bird knows why, but dusting him with pellets didnt do anything to reassure him! Lol
Gobblers talking less and being extra cautious is the result of hunting pressure, but it doesnt make turkeys run away from each other. That's pecking order at work.
I don't know guys... until you hunt it yourself you have to see it to believe it. I do a LOT of hunting on public land in Mississippi! I love the challenge, but those birds are crazy! And yes I have seen a gobbler run from a live hen yelping!! These birds have had every trick played on them that you can think of. It has been said several times that if a person can continuously kill turkeys on Mississippi public land year after year, that person can kill turkeys anywhere else in the USA with no problem! Even ole Preston Pittman has said that the birds in the south are the hardest to hunt in the USA. He goes on to say that some of the best woodsman and hunters were from the south because of this reason.
Jonathan
It may be a pecking order issue. If that bird has had his a$$ handed to him recently by a dominant tom, and he thinks he's suddenly too close to bully's girl, he will make some space. I've had them behave like that before...maybe not a full-on sprint, but they would definitely skirt the call. HOWEVER, another tom has magically appeared on occasion. Even worse, a couple of years ago, I had a bird strut all of the way across a field only to hang up about 80 yards away. He suddenly dropped out of strut and took off running. Initially, I thought he was spooked by my setup...until I saw a band of jakes come screaming out of the creek bottom, run him down, and beat the snot out of him.
Regardless of all of the theories, if you intend to hunt this same bird some more this spring, it will be interesting to hear how it works out. I, for one, will be totally amazed if you kill that bird by uttering any kind of turkey calling to him and he comes to it.
No, no...u mississippi boys cant go stealin our thunder now. Everyone knows that phrase was coined in reference to Pennsylvania. WE have the TOUGHEST birds around. :p Just as me, i'll tell ya. Preston Pittman once tried to kill a bird on a PA state game lands and left in tears with his thumb in his mouth! Lol jk Makes for great trash talk though. :)
I remember ole' Ben Lee saying he couldn't wait to go back home and that was more than 25 years ago! Could you imagine if these other states had 350'000 or more people chasin gobblers, most of which have watched every show, dvd, and watched all the seminars at every sport show going..I wonder how many of them have pulled into a public area and found 20 cars in a parking lot and sometime even more. Killing one by calling in PA is very difficult, the vast majority are illegally ambushed without question. YOU may be right PA birds are nothing short of amazing at times...they all have PHD's in calling and turkey hunters. :z-flirtysmile3:
:funnyturkey: LOL!! That's what makes this sport so much fun. It's a mind game! I think we can all agree that public land turkeys, regardless of which state you hunt them in, are harder to hunt than private land birds. There are, however, some hard hunted private land birds that can be just as hard to kill. At times just as I mentioned above you can pull out every trick in the bag and your confidence level just gets shot . There is nothing you could have done... but other times they come running in to the slightest remote sound of a turkey and your confidence is restored. There is several underlying aspects that play a HUGE roll in when and what that ole gobbler will do.
Jonathan
Quote from: Frankinthelaurels on March 27, 2012, 01:47:09 PM
I remember ole' Ben Lee saying he couldn't wait to go back home and that was more than 25 years ago! Could you imagine if these other states had 350'000 or more people chasin gobblers, most of which have watched every show, dvd, and watched all the seminars at every sport show going..I wonder how many of them have pulled into a public area and found 20 cars in a parking lot and sometime even more. Killing one by calling in PA is very difficult, the vast majority are illegally ambushed without question. YOU may be right PA birds are nothing short of amazing at times...they all have PHD's in calling and turkey hunters. :z-flirtysmile3:
What? The "vast majority are illegally ambushed without question."
OK, even though you think its without question, I'll ask just this one: Where do you get that statistic?
:z-dizzy:
Quote from: stinkpickle on March 27, 2012, 10:41:26 AM
It may be a pecking order issue. If that bird has had his a$$ handed to him recently by a dominant tom, and he thinks he's suddenly too close to bully's girl, he will make some space. I've had them behave like that before...maybe not a full-on sprint, but they would definitely skirt the call.
That's my reasoning as well.
Come up here April 14th and I will show you a spot that will have at minimum 30 vehicles and we still kill them till the last day of the season. Turkeys do not run from other turkeys unless its a pecking order thing. Pressure can make them go silent. Either the turkey seen something he didnt like or heard the hen yelping and thought the boss was there. Thats really the only 2 things it could be. Or your hunting with guesswho near those gay turkeys ;D
I have hunted many states over the years. Public land anywhere is much tougher. And Yes, Mississippi birds are the toughest I hunt anywhere hands down. That's why everyone loves the Western birds. Even novice hunters can kill turkeys out west. They are dumb and terrain allows easy ambush.
Just like the dang old spinning wing duck decoys. These younger hunters think they can duck hunt cause they just put out the wing and kill mallards. It should be outlawed!!! but that's another post. :deadhorse:
Mississippi public land is not joke. :fud: :newmascot:
I have never hunted MS but our public land here in Bama is pretty dang crowded with morons for the first 2 weeks but I can honestly say I have never seen a turkey run from calling of a hen wanting to get bred. But then again there are a lot of things that happen in MS that dont happen any where else in the country.LOL (joking) ;D ;D ;D
I would comment but considering im only hunting western birds this season.... :-)
Call shy is like anything else, if you believe it then its true. If you don't then it's not.
Quote from: K9Doc on March 27, 2012, 06:52:13 PM
I have hunted many states over the years. Public land anywhere is much tougher. And Yes, Mississippi birds are the toughest I hunt anywhere hands down. That's why everyone loves the Western birds. Even novice hunters can kill turkeys out west. They are dumb and terrain allows easy ambush.
Mississippi public land is not joke. :fud: :newmascot:
I have found that typically, those people claiming they hunt the most difficult birds, would struggle most places, and then there are those hunters, like the one who posted just before me, that will get it done no matter where they are without ever saying a word about how tough the turkeys they hunt are. These are the guys that never complain about call shy birds, or the toughest state. They think like a turkey, they adapt, and they kill, no matter where they are. NOT saying I am one of these hunters, as I am not, but when I fail(often), I chalk it up to failure on my part, rather than crying "call shy!" or "These are the toughest birds you will ever hunt. JMO.
I hunt Land Between the Lakes(LBL) public hunting in W.Ky. and the turkeys have a reputation for being very call shy, after a few days of getting whipped by an old tom I decided to get in the woods early and hope for an ambush which never works but I was desperate. Sure enough the tom flew down was within 35 steps and I was just waiting to pull the trigger when he cleared a fallen branch when a mockingbird (I guess) makes a sound behind him that sounded alot like a hen and he turned his head looking behind him and it had really spooked him and he listened very hard. Then the bird called again and with that he flopped his wing and ducked his head and took off running and when he cleared a dip I was going to shoot but when he came out of the dip he was out of range and ran until I lost sight of him going over the next ridge and me left with WHAT JUST HAPPENED? I saw it and still cant believe it.
not gonna brag on my calling but ive had lots of people tell me im the best theyve heard. all i hunt is public land in south mississippi. ive been on birds in a lot of diff situations an jus barely purr an cluck or soft yelps with my mouth to only see them haul butt away from me. birds in kansas missouri tenn an kentucky public land have nothing on the ones down here. most of the birds i kill on public land only drum when they hit the ground. it can be very tough.
:z-guntootsmiley: hey NYBasser. I'm not making excuses. Making a point. Everyone fails, misses, poor decisions ect... I have had plenty of mishaps and it cost me birds over the years. These birds are tougher and if u don't believe me, come try em out year after year where I am hunting. They just don't respond the same in heavily pressured areas. It's called survival instinct.
I should have, could have, would have. LOL. His pea brain beat me that day! He beat me. No excuses. Just forum turkey talk. Thank for the replies. This turkey will mean a lot if I do get him.
P.S. No offense to u western hunters. I will say they are tough to call in the open when they have hens 24/7. Terrain is just easier to get to a good position.
:fud: :OGani:
Harold Knight says the toughest birds he ever hunted was in LBL...I've hunted public land in many states...I have to agree with Harold.
you would be surprised what they can see to let them not feel safe and want to get out of dodge
Quote from: slave601 on March 27, 2012, 10:38:15 PM
not gonna brag on my calling but ive had lots of people tell me im the best theyve heard. all i hunt is public land in south mississippi. ive been on birds in a lot of diff situations an jus barely purr an cluck or soft yelps with my mouth to only see them haul butt away from me. birds in kansas missouri tenn an kentucky public land have nothing on the ones down here. most of the birds i kill on public land only drum when they hit the ground. it can be very tough.
The worst calling I ever heard came from a wild turkey hen. Good calling doesn't kill birds. Many guys ego like to convince them their expert calling kills birds..setup, scouting and woodsmanship kills 10 times more birds than calling. In fact, I've killed many birds with a simple cluck, or one series of yelps by placing myself in the right place and doing my homework...an old boss hen wouldn't win any Grand National calling Competitions...Guaranteed...what's that tell ya?
Quote from: HARDCORE on March 26, 2012, 09:41:49 PM
"call shy" does this mean a gobbler would turn and run from a real hen if he couldn't see her, even without looking first.
HC
:icon_thumright: :icon_thumright:
If turkeys are "call shy" then how in the world would they ever communicate with each other,let alone reproduce.Call shy is more than likely people shy.
Quote from: turkey_slayer on March 27, 2012, 09:23:33 AM
Turkeys don't run from turkey sounds or they would starve to death from running so much :toothy12:. There has to be more to it
:agreed: there was something else I believe...something already had him spooked.
God Bless
Aaahhhh,...Here we go again. How long will it take until us turkey hunters reference hard scientific evidence rather than just declare something as fact or fiction? Any organism can be conditioned by positive or negative reinforcement to do, or not do, just about anything . Turkeys that have had enough negative reinforcement in the form of approaching turkey sounds and then being shot at will learn, over time, to avoid approaching turkey sounds, period. You cannot change that scientific fact regardless of whether you are the best turkey caller or turkey hunter on the planet.
That's not to say that every single turkey that runs from a call for no obvious reason is doing so because it has been conditioned to shy away from turkey sounds, but if I was to put my money on a reason for this particular bird behaving like it did under the conditions described, I would bet my patootie that this gobbler has had some unsavoury experiences with turkey callers before,....and I really don't want to lose my patootie!
Quote from: GobbleNut on March 16, 2014, 02:42:16 PM
Aaahhhh,...Here we go again. How long will it take until us turkey hunters reference hard scientific evidence rather than just declare something as fact or fiction?
You waiting on me Mr. Patootie?
Quote from: guesswho on March 16, 2014, 02:52:24 PM
Quote from: GobbleNut on March 16, 2014, 02:42:16 PM
Aaahhhh,...Here we go again. How long will it take until us turkey hunters reference hard scientific evidence rather than just declare something as fact or fiction?
You waiting on me Mr. Patootie?
What?! You already killed your limit, or what?! Didn't figure you would be jumping in on this quite so soon. Why aren't you out hunting? ...But now that you mention it, it did cross my mind that you might have some "input" on this one! ;D :toothy12:
The Gobbler I killed last year was shot at by me 3 times the last time I missed before I killed him and the time I killed him he was in no way shape or form call shy but he did cluck when he saw my same two decoys he had seen from the previous hunts. the hunt I killed him on after he busted me and clucked at my decoys I decided to ditch them and called him in without them after circling around him. It's possible they might be call shy without seeing anything but they for sure can become decoy shy it happened to me!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
Dunno about other states but in SC on public land if you call at a tom in plain sight you are most always making a mistake. It's not uncommon to be picked off. I think a turkey can be conditioned pretty darn quick to detect danger from a camo blob especially when it entails getting sprayed.
Call shy is an excuse like every other excuse Turkey hunters have came up with. I believe every Turkey is 100% killable. If I don't kill him I didn't do something right. Your mileage may vary
Quote from: turkey_slayer on March 16, 2014, 04:11:18 PM
Call shy is an excuse like every other excuse Turkey hunters have came up with. I believe every Turkey is 100% killable. If I don't kill him I didn't do something right. Your mileage may vary
I agree with you on that..
So you fellas don't think there is any possibility that a turkey can connect hen calls with a hunter? I see plenty of hunters walking along in early season, before green up and in wide open bottoms, calling and bumping turkeys they never knew where there. Me, well I think they can be conditioned. Sure, every turkey is 100% killable, but that has nothing to do with some being call shy. I've killed plenty of those too.
Quote from: THattaway on March 16, 2014, 04:42:42 PM
So you fellas don't think there is any possibility that a turkey can connect hen calls with a hunter? I see plenty of hunters walking along in early season, before green up and in wide open bottoms, calling and bumping turkeys they never knew where there. Me, well I think they can be conditioned. Sure, every turkey is 100% killable, but that has nothing to do with some being call shy. I've killed plenty of those too.
I'm not saying they want get more wary I just don't believe they get unkillable. I hunt all public and most of it sees a lot of pressure. Turkeys are stupid. Ever walked up on turkeys that are between you and a fence? They will run up and down it instead of going under it or flying over it like they normally do. Most piles of Turkey feathers I see are near a fence and I figure the predator had a easy meal there. Turkeys are naturally paranoid cause something is always trying to kill them and I think people confuse them being paranoid with being smart
Hard question to answer. A bird is not call shy opening day the 1st morning of season. A turkey is not smart enough to remember that last year about this time behind every yelp is a boom or a bugger moving around in the woods. But I believe as the season goes on turkeys are shy of areas where they have been spooked the past few days. Everytime I have been set up on a gobbler and he pitches off the roost and runs the other way ... He was spooked. Usually by me. It was not my calling that scarred him
Sounds like a PA gobbler, he gobbles and 9 guys call to him. Good luck and stay after em...
Quote from: THattaway on March 16, 2014, 04:42:42 PM
So you fellas don't think there is any possibility that a turkey can connect hen calls with a hunter?
No. I do not give animals human characteristics. There is no way they can put the 2 together. They do not possess the ability to reason, that's what separates us from the animals. Just think about it. The vocalizations of wild turkeys are far too essential to their survival that there is no way they could adapt to fear their own voices.
Being able to "reason" and being conditioned to negative reinforcement are two entirely different concepts. Why is it that some turkey hunters accept the fact that a rat can be conditioned to run a maze to get to a piece of cheese but cannot accept the fact that a turkey can learn to stay away...or even run away,... from turkey calls if they have been shot at a few times when they approach one? The concept is exactly the same.
So do "call shy" turkeys run away from turkey calls year round,or only in April and May(march for you southern boys)?
If they are scared or conditioned to run from calls,how or when do they decide its ok to mingle with other turkeys,who are calling lots every day?
Quote from: GobbleNut on March 16, 2014, 07:04:45 PM
Being able to "reason" and being conditioned to negative reinforcement are two entirely different concepts.
I understand what you're saying :icon_thumright:
I just view it as the "negative reinforcement" the turkeys are receiving comes straight from people pressure, not turkey calls. The woods were dormant for months after deer season and all of a sudden there are outside influences everywhere. Trucks, 4-wheel atv's, hikers, campers, scouters spooking turkeys, newbies spooking turkeys, tresspassers spooking turkeys, fishermen, mushroom hunters.....and....it all coincides with the opening day of turkey season. People go in to hunt, drive right up in there, slam doors, talking loud, stumbling thru the woods to set up the blind 45 yds from the bird....make 12 yelps....birds hit the road....it must be them "call shy" birds again.....
But I don't see turkeys as being able to say, "better not go over there, that's a dude calling with a custom long box with brown chalk.......but I try to see every side of a turkeys behavior, try to pass on birds like that, and go find one that wants to play nicely.
My comments seem to have been misconstrued. Turkeys cannot reason but are conditioned to responses. If you don't think they can recognize calls then consider they are conditioned to their mother's calls while still in the egg. That would be over the course of no more than 21 days being exposed to it. Threads like this crack me up. I raised turkeys as a kid. If the barnyard tom saw me with a 1"X2" in my hand you can be sure he gave me wide berth even if I was calling. LOL!
I've always considered that public land turkeys are usually exposed to camo clad hunters during deer season, bumped etc. That means at least 3 months here in SC.
I don't mind a call shy tom at all. I actually enjoy killing some of them more than easy kamakazi birds.
Let me ask you this. I know I've done it as well as others on here. Call a bird up, shoot and miss then call him up an hour or so later and kill him. You would think a stick of dynamite going off where the "hen" was would teach him something. Or, how many birds have you killed that had been shot previously? If getting injured after coming to a "hen" doesn't make you think twice then what would?
There are exceptions to every rule. We have all seen turkey behavior that contradicts what we would have expected. Still, the fact is that anyone that states that turkeys cannot become call shy is denying decades of scientific research that clearly shows that they will,...if they experience enough "negative reinforcement" in approaching turkey sounds during their lives. That is not opinion or speculation, it is simply the fact of the matter.
I am of the opinion that the guy that does not accept that reality when hunting certain gobblers has less chance of killing one of those birds than the guy that does. You can kill call-shy gobblers by using "non-conventional" tactics,...they are not impossible to kill. But the sooner you realize that you are not going to do it by using conventional calling tactics, the better your chances of getting it done.
But if there are exceptions how can it be fact? We are just gonna have to agree to disagree :D
I am a firm believer that a turkey can't stop being a turkey. Especially in the spring. I have seen turkeys not gobble until almost sun up because of hunting pressure. But just because he didn't gobble doesn't mean he stopped being a turkey. There are going to be gobblers that are not going to breed. Those that have been whooped so bad that they don't want to attempt to get whooped again. Does that mean they are call shy. I don't think so. JMO If you are sounding like a real hen, I sat keep calling until you get a response. Use different tactics but still be a hen.
Joe
Quote from: GobbleNut on March 16, 2014, 10:29:05 PM
Still, the fact is that anyone that states that turkeys cannot become call shy is denying decades of scientific research that clearly shows that they will,
Really? Decades of scientific research you say? Surely then you won't have any trouble pointing us towards at least one or two of these studies that demonstrated this behavior in wild turkeys... right?
Sorry!! Nope!! I don't buy it!! I do not believe a turkey will ever run from the sound of another turkey because he associates that with danger. They would become extinct if that were the case. I believe your turkey had other plans that day or saw/seen something that you did not. I do not believe he ran or left because he heard hen talk. :z-twocents:
Quote from: TRKYHTR on March 16, 2014, 11:10:01 PM
I am a firm believer that a turkey can't stop being a turkey. Especially in the spring. I have seen turkeys not gobble until almost sun up because of hunting pressure. But just because he didn't gobble doesn't mean he stopped being a turkey. There are going to be gobblers that are not going to breed. Those that have been whooped so bad that they don't want to attempt to get whooped again. Does that mean they are call shy. I don't think so. JMO If you are sounding like a real hen, I sat keep calling until you get a response. Use different tactics but still be a hen.
Joe
Very nice statement and I agree.... The fact is that its a wild animal and has evolved by doing what they do & using their instincts. In order to survive, they must breed & that is the only fact... They either come to the call or not, but instead of wasting my time worrying about them being call shy, I will spend my time trying to figure out how to get closer to him, or how to get ahead of him, etc.. :z-twocents: Good luck to you all this season....
idk about call shy but if hes been caled in a few times and been shot at he will probably wait for the hen to come to him instead of going to her.
Quote from: K9Doc on March 25, 2012, 08:46:49 PM
Ok. Just a few weeks ago, a thread appeared about the most difficult Public land turkeys to kill. Well, I said Mississippi and Florida. I will prove my Mississippi point:
Got in tight this morning(less than 70 yards). I never said a word to him. Set up on a huge pine tree. He pitches out in my direction and i am stoked. He doesn't stop to smell the roses or stretch his wings. No strutting. He is in a hurry to go somewhere. He has not spotted me. I made 3-4 note soft yelp to stop him for a shot at 45 yards, and he takes off like the dang "Road Runner" !!!!!!!!!!!! BEEP BEEP BEEP!!!! I let loose a load of Hevi 7s to no avail.
What say you Mississippi Public Land Hunters? Is this one call shy or what? I would say he has heard it and seen all before!
I may have to put some Hevi shot in his feet before it's all said and done!
Most likely you got in too tight and he saw something possibly just a shadow he didn't like...turkeys aren't call shy they are hunter shy.
Quote from: alloutdoors on March 16, 2014, 11:11:08 PM
Quote from: GobbleNut on March 16, 2014, 10:29:05 PM
Still, the fact is that anyone that states that turkeys cannot become call shy is denying decades of scientific research that clearly shows that they will,
Really? Decades of scientific research you say? Surely then you won't have any trouble pointing us towards at least one or two of these studies that demonstrated this behavior in wild turkeys... right?
Yes, really,...Go take a look at any scientific journal on animal behavior and conditioned response and you will find all the examples you need that show animals can be conditioned to do, or not do, things by repetitive reward or punishment. Or are you suggesting that turkeys are somehow unique in the animal kingdom and are not susceptible to the same conditioning that every other animal on this planet is subject to?
One more time,....even if you think you are the best turkey caller and hunter on earth, you cannot change scientific fact that, yes, has been demonstrated conclusively by decades of scientific research.
No one would argue that animals can't be conditioned....but they are only hunted by man a month or so out of the year and most might only encounter a hunter a few times.
Turkeys pick up movement as small as a hunter just moving his finger on the forearm of his gun....even the reflection and movement in a hunters eyes.
Lots of hunters underestimate a turkeys eye sight...
You'll never make me believe turkeys get call shy
Even funnier is some people think turkeys get particular type turkey call shy.....like diaphragm shy
I don't care where youre from I don't believe in ''call shy'' turkeys if gobblers were scared of hen yelps in states like Pennsylvania, Mississippi, Newyork ,ect..... that get lots of pressure turkeys would soon be extinct. My guess is you yelp he zeroed in on youre location picked you out and got outta there.
Just get back in the woods and make it happen. Have hauled many tough Toms back to the truck after others claimed them unkillable. I always tell them, give me 3 days and I show you him up close. Turkey Toms sure can become shy but, they are still subordinant to the human brain self trained in feeding on them. No substitute for being there while seemingly not there. Scratching can be calling, soft clicks is calling, at times just walking will get them headed your way.
On tougher toms sometimes it can be best to wait for a gobble and then respond lightly. Later AM can drop thier guard. One day he will just be in the mood to have perferated snood. Good luck!
I dont think turkeys get call shy, they get people shy. Turkeys are always going to make turkey noises, once season starts and hunters start running and gunning puts the turkeys on edge.
Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Tapatalk 2
Quote from: GobbleNut on March 17, 2014, 08:13:48 AM
Quote from: alloutdoors on March 16, 2014, 11:11:08 PM
Quote from: GobbleNut on March 16, 2014, 10:29:05 PM
Still, the fact is that anyone that states that turkeys cannot become call shy is denying decades of scientific research that clearly shows that they will,
Really? Decades of scientific research you say? Surely then you won't have any trouble pointing us towards at least one or two of these studies that demonstrated this behavior in wild turkeys... right?
Yes, really,...Go take a look at any scientific journal on animal behavior and conditioned response and you will find all the examples you need that show animals can be conditioned to do, or not do, things by repetitive reward or punishment. Or are you suggesting that turkeys are somehow unique in the animal kingdom and are not susceptible to the same conditioning that every other animal on this planet is subject to?
One more time,....even if you think you are the best turkey caller and hunter on earth, you cannot change scientific fact that, yes, has been demonstrated conclusively by decades of scientific research.
You give turkeys way to much credit. I would like to see a link to the research proving turkeys get conditioned by humans one month out of the year when they are at their dumbest cause of women on the brain.
I agree animals can be conditioned but totally disagree to become conditioned to avoid the breeding ritual. Also, it takes time to be conditioned. Do you really think a month is enough with prob only a handful of encounters at most? Most get killed the first mess up. If they do get conditioned and survive do they remember it the next spring and avoid it all again? The thing with science is data can be manipulated how the person sees fit. I trust what I see because I'm out there almost everyday during this time not what somebody I have no clue about writes. He could be a hunter trying to prove call shy exist :D
Quote from: GobbleNut on March 17, 2014, 08:13:48 AM
Yes, really,...Go take a look at any scientific journal on animal behavior and conditioned response and you will find all the examples you need that show animals can be conditioned to do, or not do, things by repetitive reward or punishment. Or are you suggesting that turkeys are somehow unique in the animal kingdom and are not susceptible to the same conditioning that every other animal on this planet is subject to?
One more time,....even if you think you are the best turkey caller and hunter on earth, you cannot change scientific fact that, yes, has been demonstrated conclusively by decades of scientific research.
Nice try, but you're talking to someone who actually works as a professional biologist and who actually knows a thing or two about study design and interpreting studies done by others. Claiming scientific evidence when you have none doesn't impress me.
Of course animals can be conditioned, so can people for that matter. Heck, give me a captive turkey and enough time and I may actually be able to create a call shy bird. However, there is no place where hunting pressure over the course of a one month season is sufficient to condition wild birds to have a negative response to the vocalizations of their own species, particularly when those vocalizations play a key role in the mating process of that species. Hasn't happened, never will happen.
Sorry, but a 3-4 note soft yelp in turkey talk means, "My mother will be staying with us for a while." That bird wasn't call shy...he was MARRIED! ;)
Quote from: stinkpickle on March 17, 2014, 11:14:26 AM
Sorry, but a 3-4 note soft yelp in turkey talk means, "My mother will be staying with us for a while." That bird wasn't call shy...he was MARRIED! ;)
I thought the married ones were the ones that never shut up :-X
Quote from: turkey_slayer on March 17, 2014, 02:06:37 PM
Quote from: stinkpickle on March 17, 2014, 11:14:26 AM
Sorry, but a 3-4 note soft yelp in turkey talk means, "My mother will be staying with us for a while." That bird wasn't call shy...he was MARRIED! ;)
I thought the married ones were the ones that never shut up :-X
LOL! They tend to run right up to the muzzle of the shotgun.
Quote from: turkey_slayer on March 16, 2014, 09:27:25 PM
Let me ask you this. I know I've done it as well as others on here. Call a bird up, shoot and miss then call him up an hour or so later and kill him. You would think a stick of dynamite going off where the "hen" was would teach him something. Or, how many birds have you killed that had been shot previously? If getting injured after coming to a "hen" doesn't make you think twice then what would?
Sorry to reply so late but this is the first chance I've had to return.
I think it has to do with the circumstances of the event. If you shoot and miss the bird, even hit it, and jump up and run out at him I think there is a good chance that bird may be looking hard for a camo blob pretty hard from then on. I've killed a number of birds that have been previously shot, most were pretty darn wary as well.
My Dad raised bird dogs. They are probably much smarter than turkeys but when you dicipline a dog ten minutes after he did something wrong he simply cannot connect the previous behavior with it. You have to discipline him right then when he does something you don't want him to do to get any success. I see folks all the time attributing reasoning ability to turkeys, I do not so don't misunderstand any of my comments. Most bumped toms settle down quickly but faced with circumstances they've experienced before with immediate negative re-enforcement, usually multiple times, then they usually are gonna react in a certain way. Beyond that, the simple urge to breed will overcome them at times.
They are just like us; there are days we talk our heads off, and days we don't say a word all day, just like gobblers.
And they get decoy shy also, sometimes!
Quote from: THattaway on March 17, 2014, 04:21:58 PM
Quote from: turkey_slayer on March 16, 2014, 09:27:25 PM
Let me ask you this. I know I've done it as well as others on here. Call a bird up, shoot and miss then call him up an hour or so later and kill him. You would think a stick of dynamite going off where the "hen" was would teach him something. Or, how many birds have you killed that had been shot previously? If getting injured after coming to a "hen" doesn't make you think twice then what would?
Sorry to reply so late but this is the first chance I've had to return.
I think it has to do with the circumstances of the event. If you shoot and miss the bird, even hit it, and jump up and run out at him I think there is a good chance that bird may be looking hard for a camo blob pretty hard from then on. I've killed a number of birds that have been previously shot, most were pretty darn wary as well.
My Dad raised bird dogs. They are probably much smarter than turkeys but when you dicipline a dog ten minutes after he did something wrong he simply cannot connect the previous behavior with it. You have to discipline him right then when he does something you don't want him to do to get any success. I see folks all the time attributing reasoning ability to turkeys, I do not so don't misunderstand any of my comments. Most bumped toms settle down quickly but faced with circumstances they've experienced before with immediate negative re-enforcement, usually multiple times, then they usually are gonna react in a certain way. Beyond that, the simple urge to breed will overcome them at times.
I'm not saying animals can not be conditioned. Lots of wild animals get accustomed to eating out of people's hands but it takes a long time for the animal to learn that there not going to get hurt walking up to them. What I'm saying is I don't believe it's possible with the short amount of time we're in the woods. Throw in the breeding season which makes em even dumber and I really don't see it happening.
Best let the call shy crowd keep thinking it....and we'll just keep killing them.
I'm not a green horn and I believe in it. 160 have died for my calling so far if numbers mean anything to you. Am sure there are other's here who have killed many more but I figure I deserve the right to say I've formed an experienced opinion.
Quote from: THattaway on March 17, 2014, 06:51:38 PM
I'm not a green horn and I believe in it. 160 have died for my calling so far if numbers mean anything to you. Am sure there are other's here who have killed many more but I figure I deserve the right to say I've formed an experienced opinion.
For centuries, sailors that had spent essentially their entire lives at sea were convinced that if they sailed too far they would fall of the edge of the world. Just sayin.
Quote from: L.F. Cox on March 17, 2014, 06:49:24 PM
Best let the call shy crowd keep thinking it....and we'll just keep killing them.
I was hoping this would die along time ago don't want to educate too may turkey hunters I love running into hunters that claim the birds are call shy and other made up maladies, I agree with them encouraging them to leave the woods and let me have them all to myself in this case the less the merrier. ;D
Quote from: alloutdoors on March 17, 2014, 07:00:43 PM
For centuries, sailors that had spent essentially their entire lives at sea were convinced that if they sailed too far they would fall of the edge of the world. Just sayin.
To imply someone who believes a turkey can become call shy is just an unsuccessful hunter is much the same thinking. Just saying. I don't mind disagreeing.
Quote from: slamman on March 17, 2014, 07:04:58 PM
Quote from: L.F. Cox on March 17, 2014, 06:49:24 PM
Best let the call shy crowd keep thinking it....and we'll just keep killing them.
I was hoping this would die along time ago don't want to educate too may turkey hunters I love running into hunters that claim the birds are call shy and other made up maladies, I agree with them encouraging them to leave the woods and let me have them all to myself in this case the less the merrier. ;D
Ok ok I will keep my mouth shut :-X. In all seriousness, thattaway thanks for having a friendly discussion. I would hunt with ya any day
Quote from: THattaway on March 17, 2014, 07:07:46 PM
Quote from: alloutdoors on March 17, 2014, 07:00:43 PM
For centuries, sailors that had spent essentially their entire lives at sea were convinced that if they sailed too far they would fall of the edge of the world. Just sayin.
To imply someone who believes a turkey can become call shy is just an unsuccessful hunter is much the same thinking. Just saying. I don't mind disagreeing.
Not sure the analogy works both ways, but I didn't make that suggestion in any event. Anyway I was just having a little fun with you, no hard feelings meant. :icon_thumright:
Quote from: redleg06 on March 25, 2012, 09:06:52 PM
It sounds like he might have been spooked before you ever made a call by how you are saying he didnt want to hang around.
Hard to tell, but I'd wonder if he hadnt seen something he didnt like from the tree or right after flydown before you made the call.
x2
Y'all can have all those call shy, scared to death birds. I'm just out there hunting "old stupid"!!!!!