ok, since there is a lot of polishing talk on here and the praise...im gonna share my experience. first off, this is now this was no as the sticky, but how i did it with what i have and how several do it here.
i took my 20 ga charles daly auto and 835 and cleaned/polished them using 0000steel wool and wd 40. ran it up and down for a while and then swapped to clean wool and ran it more. i then went to a clean patch and swabbed followed by regular household alcohol. clean as a whistle on both.
took the 20 to the sumtoy shop to set up for tss. long story short, patterns were not there. we were both blown away and confused. we ran distilled alcohol patches through and pulled out stringy plastic several times and the wads looked crazy too. something was up.
thinking i had ruined my bbl, we began to run other loads through it and shot it against a shop gun. it began to come back around when it got dirty and cleaned with the alcohol more. the plastic stuff kept coming. something with my cleaning process caused a wild reaction. an hour or so later i tried the tss again and it was better. time of day difference, bbl differences? i dont know but it was off yesterday bad and the only thing different was the bbl cleaning. the plastic sticking like that was mind boggling. it looked like string cheese coming out.
im gonna steel wool the bbl again with dry wool and hope it goes back to normal and shoot one more time this week at my range. im done with all that crap. polish vs no polish...ive never gained with all the hassle, so im done. i will keep em clean and no oil or anything of the sort. ive heard it from willaim/sumtoy and he should know since that is what he does and is primarily in the business of patterning..mostly at short range, but same principle.....and yea i heard " i told ya so". no more wasted money or energy on polishing for me. i just shoot and swab clean.
that plastic stuff coming out along with all the other fouling that was stuck in there after one shot was crazy...and this was with 3 different loads, not just tss. hopefully i have it all shot out, but then theres the 835 that i mentioned earlier that i never shot yesterday and did the same thing to......
there is another thread like this in the 20 ga section..same results as me after all that..check it out
I'd like to see some pictures of this so called plastic coming out of barrels. I do however get that plastic in some of my chokes but i have never seen it come from any of my barrels after they have been cleaned and polished.
Technique and the components used is the key to getting good polished results. I don't know your technique, but WD40 with steel wool alone is abrasively a very harsh way to polish. This is why most use a compound such as JB compound in conjunction with a lubricant...being that JB was designed to be used in such manner.
Steel Wool, Bore Paste and Kroil here. Clean the barrel and lube it after wet polishing it. Before firing then run some dry patches through it, no alcohol! I think your issue is running dry steel wool through the barrel. By doing so you may be roughing the barrel rather than smoothing it. Just a thought.
Yep, no alcohol!
I wouldn't run steel wool through my barrels. Having been a benchrest shooter, I would never run any type of steel brush down my barrel. Neither would the other shooters.
I've ran steel wool a good bit in my 835 and only a time or two in that 20 but see no harm in it ad its nit abrasive enough to take away. Many on here have ran the wd 40 in place of broil, reloading section, not here, but anyways I didn't see harm there. I also see no harm in the alcohol. It doesn't leave any residues and dries completely and cleans very well. What's wrong with the alcohol?? I've dine my 835 this way before with no trouble so maybe the cd was different. I will hopefully find out today.
Im not seeing the harm in the 0000 steel wool. I wont run any more oil in them. I will bore snake between shots and leave it.
Go ahead and use the steel wool but don't do it "dry". I think that may be what has caused your issues. You have to have some lube on that wool.
I used the Kroil method, and used Flitz Metal Polish at the end. I can see relections in my barrels. Mirror polished.
Gman
Wool+WD40 was your problem, I did the same thing to mine and the exact same thing happened. Patterns sucked and plastic fouling was unreal.
Kroil+wool or Kroil+scotch brite and some kind of compound is the way to fly.
Now for one the steel wool did not make this happen. The stings of plastic run down the barrel in a line in a few places. So all that is out of it. Now the oil I have no idea why you need it. I have did it over and over with dry steel wool and have never had a problem. I think the problem is how it is did. Both ways will work if did the way it should be.
Like I said take a junk make a good one but can take a good one and make a junk one. Be careful how you do it.
It must be in the WD40. After a deep cleaning I used dry 0000 steel wool wrapped around a 20 gauge brass brush in my 12 gauge and got a very shiny barrel and no ill effects of the pattern. After I ran the steel wool I wet patched the barrel again with Hoppe's #9 then ran dry patches until all visible moisture from the patches were gone. To ensure I got it all I ran a mop down the barrel. After shooting I ran a bore snake down the barrel 3 or 4 times and it is just as shiny as after I polished.
You must have not been holding your tongue just right.
Sumtoy You say you have no idea why you need oil and that the steel wool did not do it.
First of all, the main sticky suggest scotch brite and Kroil. these are very different from steel wool and wd40. Also the grit of steel wool will make a difference.
I have used steel wool(0000)and wd 40 before getting scotch brite and kroil. It is not the same.
Just follow the directions and by all means don't use a thin rod.
Each time I replaced one of the substituted components with what was recomended the barrel improved.
I've not had any problems on dry wool and and i've done it with hopped on it as well and then run patches through it until it cones back out like it went in.
Im not gonna go with wd 40 no more. I gotta go get me a bore snake today for the 12 and clean each shot. I just don't think the dry wool is hurting it no more than im doing it. Im only running it for a few minutes then I get bored..im not sitting down for 30 mins or so. Prolly 30-50 strokes. If that ain't clean enough then it ain't gonna get clean by me. If it takes all that for one to shoot, then mine just won't shoot and i will get a different one.
I was mainly working the 20 to get it good and clean since I haven't had it long and don't know its past history. I wanted to get all out of it that I could. This may have hindered it some, but in sure I fouled it up enough now to get all that out. It just don't take all the extra work I don't think...if its gonna shoot, it will. If not, it wont
This is funny. Guy has a problem, states problem, then does not want to listen to possible answers to his problem. I believe the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and expecting a different result. I will not waste any more time here.
Never tried steel wool but I've had great success with the scotch brite, jb, and kroil method. Finished up with some mothers wheel polish. The pic is of an 835 I did with this method. Notice the difference between the barrel and the chamber. The barrel looks almost like it's chrome lined now. Patterns are much better and clean up is easier than with the factory bore finish.
Again I will say that even though we are talking about shotgun barrels and not rifle barrels here, but the same principle applies if you stop and think about it. Benchrest custom rifle barrels that have been handlapped and cut to perfection and the guys that shoot them whether it be rimfire or centerfire all have their ways to clean or what they say works and what they say don't. Call it the do's and dont's of how to clean. On rimfire custom barrels, some like me believed in using a bronze or brass brush to remove fouling from the bores with a good solvent and then patch clean. Others would only use solvent and patches and never use a brush because they thought it would damage the rifling. Well I can tell you that no brass or bronze brush which is softer than the 28-30 Rockwell of a rimfire barrel is going to harm the rifling. But it's their barrel so I do understand their beliefs since we are talking about shallow rimfire rifling. And almost all centerfire shooters would use a brush and solvent and patch clean. But no rimfire shooter or centerfire shooter that I know of would even think about running a stainless steel or any steel brush for that matter down their bores. Your gonna scratch the rifling and the same goes for a shotgun barrel. Your taking steel against steel, and that's a big no no. Now some may do so with no ill effects, but you can count your lucky stars and I wouldn't recommend doing it again.
Now you can argue that point all you want, but regardless of who tells you different, what I said above holds water.
Here's my take on it. The 0000 steel wool is polishing your barrel much more smoothly than any grit scotchbrite pad. In my opinion, the WD40 had nothing to do with it, since it only acting as a lubricant as does the Kroil; either will just help to make it smoother than without it. Where the problem is occurring is the extra smoothness in combination with the alcohol. In a normal situation, the extra microscopic scratches in the barrel from the coarser scotchbrite pad would hold a little oil/lube which the steel wool doesn't. Then when you send a patch down the barrel soaked with alcohol, you are effectively removing nearling 100% of any lube. When you fire the shell, a tremendous amount of pressure is generated and when the wadding travels down the barrel, the plastic is being gilded to the metal due to a lack of lubrication. Simple physics. What I would do to remedy the situation, is get some of the green scotchbrite pads, wrap one of them around a brush, lube it up and work it back and forth a few times while chucked in a cordless drill and spinning. Next, patch it out till they come out clean without brushing. Next get a large patch, I use paper towels wrapped around a 20 ga brush or smaller brush for a 20 ga, spray some light oil like Rem oil on it and pass it through the barrel and then follow up with one dry patch to remove the excess oil. You should not have anymore gilding. Try it and I garauntee it will work.
Correct me if I'm wrong here. But I am sure that I read that after he ran the steel wool through the barrel that he also ran some "dry" steel wool with no kind of lubericant through the barrel and then he ran alcohol through the barrel at the end of the process. If this is the case then I would say that when he ran the dry steel wool through the barrel is where he damaged he barrel lining. Hell I clean my vehicle windows with steel wool and window and it won't scratch glass as long as you have the steel wool wet. But I will guarantee you that if you run dry steel wool across glass that you will scratch it then. Steel Wool and window cleaner is the best way to clean the bugs off your windshield.
Dry Steel Wool is bad! Wet Steel Wool is good!
bird
I have used 4/0 steel wool soaked in WD40, but only in a real rough bbl and always followed with the JB method.
There are many ways to polish a bbl with various fine abrasives. Some bbls don't need anything as far as polish goes, others can benefit. If the bore is shiny from the start with few tool marks, all I use is JB. Cotton patch wrapped around a 12ga bronze brush, soaked in WD or any gun oil, smear JB all over, and polish. Keep the brush moving, stay out of the chamber, and use a new patch after 20 passes. Clean it well to remove all the JB, snake 2x between shots at the range, deep clean after many shots, and rock on.
If a bbl is really rough, I use 4/0 wool and WD. Wrap the wool around a 12ga brush for a tight fit. After the bbl starts to shine, swap to the JB method. The amount of passes or depth of polishing as a whole is dependent on the condition of the bbl.
It's best that folks just simply deep clean if the bbl looks fine from the start IMO.
One of my best patterning guns looked terrible from the factory, very rough. I went with the wool/WD followed by the JB method and that baby flat shoots. Ever since polishing all I've done was clean when needed and snake at the range. She still throws a mean pattern.
My last two new turkey guns looked fine from the start(shiny with no tooling marks), so I simply cleaned them. Both pattern great.
The best patterning shotgun I've ever fired has never had any polishing done, just simple cleaning. The bbl was nice and shiny from the get go.
The original poster's problem may be fine scratches in the bbl from the wool as a follow up with the JB method wasn't done.
If any of you are curious about this, just take a piece of smooth steel and polish it with a fine polish like Flitz or JB until you get a really good shine. Then clean it and scrub it with dry 4/0 wool. You can create fine swirls with the wool, which take another polish treatment to remove. That tells me that the 4/0 cuts the surface better than polish alone. That's the reason I use it if the bore is very rough to start, but always follow with JB or Montana bore polish. There are many other fine metal polishes as well.
loder
Reloader's method sounds pretty solid to me and logical.
Sometimes I think we are taking this polishing way too the extreme. So much so, we are damaging barrels in the process depending on the materials we use.
I used the JB method with the SB pads. One pad, up and down the barrel several times, same with the bore polish. Just don't have the time to spend 45-60 minutes cleaning/polishing a barrel using multiple SB pads.
My barrel and my Dad's did come out looking better than they started. Would spending an hour per barrel verses the 15mins per barrel make THAT much of a difference in the pattern.........my guess is no. And its not worth the time for me, at least, to find out.
But I guess that is why alot of us are here on this site anyways......... We like to take things to the extreme.
I'm not trying to start a fire fight here, but WD-40 is a poor lubricant and wasn't developed to take the place of lubricating oil. Water Dispersing 40 (40th reciept tested) intended use is to prevent rust.
I know WD-40 has been used for many things, but it wasn't developed to be a lubricant.
Wow thats intresting.
Quote from: Bad Grizzly on March 12, 2012, 10:29:27 AM
It WILL take some time, just the nature of the beast my friend..... I hate to do it too, but if you want the performance, you have to put in the time....
I have polished 6-8 different barrels since joining this site and reading the "how to"..... I used the Kroil, JB Paste, & Green Scotchbrite Pad EVERY time.... spent about 45 min-1 hr per barrel...... 50-100 passes (1 pass is down and back).... got my barrels mirror clean. Run a bore-snake through it with a little oil.... then a rag through it to take off excess oil..... even after 4-5 shots the barrel is about as clean as after just pulling the rags through it....
I think your alcohol is taking your lube off, causing friction with the wad and barrel.... which in turn is causing the plastic residue.... I get it in my choke tubes from time to time....
Change your process and materials and I promise you will see a difference..... Heck, ship it to me and I will do it for you if you buy the materials......
:z-winnersmiley:
Quote from: 870supermagnum on March 12, 2012, 01:08:55 PM
I'm not trying to start a fire fight here, but WD-40 is a poor lubricant and wasn't developed to take the place of lubricating oil. Water Dispersing 40 (40th reciept tested) intended use is to prevent rust.
I know WD-40 has been used for many things, but it wasn't developed to be a lubricant.
Directly from their motto:
"WD-40, everyone's favorite multi-purpose problem solver for over 50 years, cleans, lubricates and protects against corrosion"
It's not the best lube by any means and I'd never use it as gun oil as it gums after a while, but it works like a champ in place of kroil on polishing bbls. It lubes well in it's wet form(such as polishing a bbl). Most of the polishes used already have lube in them. JB or Montana for instance are a grease base with abbrasives added. Using any oil on a patch prior to applying the polish is more of a means to hold the patch to the brush more than anything.
It definitely makes steel wool less abbrasive than it's dry form. WD on fine wool is a great way to remove surface rust as well.
Quote from: Bad Grizzly on March 12, 2012, 10:29:27 AM
It WILL take some time, just the nature of the beast my friend..... I hate to do it too, but if you want the performance, you have to put in the time....
I have polished 6-8 different barrels since joining this site and reading the "how to"..... I used the Kroil, JB Paste, & Green Scotchbrite Pad EVERY time.... spent about 45 min-1 hr per barrel...... 50-100 passes (1 pass is down and back).... got my barrels mirror clean. Run a bore-snake through it with a little oil.... then a rag through it to take off excess oil..... even after 4-5 shots the barrel is about as clean as after just pulling the rags through it....
I think your alcohol is taking your lube off, causing friction with the wad and barrel.... which in turn is causing the plastic residue.... I get it in my choke tubes from time to time....
Change your process and materials and I promise you will see a difference..... Heck, ship it to me and I will do it for you if you buy the materials......
How long does it take you to do one pass? I don't remember seeing this in the polishing sticky.
Now I dont want to start a war. I do make a living building target barrels. Working with chambers, barrel bores and chokes is what makes it all come around. I dont have a dog in this war just like to try to figure out what helps and hurts barrels. Some of them shoot better if you never clean them. The better side has one if you clean it with just dry brush will go from blowing a hole to a good dove gun. Just shoot and forget it.
Now the steel wool we use all the time with out a problem. Now we dont run it over and over for hour or so. We find that on some of the small bore clay guns will build up the 1st few inches of the barrel from heat and the barrel being small. We run it a few times it is back clean like a mirror. Now that said I think that the problem with this barrel is from something else. He did buy this gun USED.
Reloader, or some of the other guys I hope can help with this.
This shot we shoot (TSS,HTL or steel) is hard. Look at the chokes that folks have had swell, scared or just wear out. Now if a shot gets out of the cup it will damage the barrel. who is to know how or why it got out. I know I have seen on the water fowl sites that folks have had the barrel scratch from one brand of shell in some of the barrels. Folks this problem is a line down the barrel not around the barrel. The problem he has he would have had to run the brush or rod up and down with out it turning.
This gun has had TSS shot out of it. I dont know what else has been shot. I cant say this is why but I would bet my life that the steel wool the way he did it did not hurt the barrel. I cant say what maid this problem but it went from one end to the other. I think the polish of barrel maid it show up more.
Now let go back and add this. I say the way he did. I was not with him or did not know he was going to do it. Now he told me how he did it so it should not have hurt anything. I told him the bump his head to do it. The one gun was over 300 last year. :TrainWreck1:
I use scotch brite with Kroil, clean out all residue, then polish with Simichrome Polish and soft cotton rags, seems to work well. Not sure if I'd use Steel Wool?
Not sure about all the merits of WD40, but I do recall a memo being sent out years ago by the local police department to all of their employees warning them about using WD40 on the actions of their service Revolvers, as it had caused major functioning issues/gumming up. Keep in mind these were S&W Model 66 .357 Revolvers, not the intricate actions of todays auto pistols. While this is certainly a little off topic, it does demonstrate to me the lubricating properties or lack thereof.
I polished my 870 in early
200o's after reading a post on the NWTF forum using green scotch brite and WD-40, I used the same method a few weeks ago on my sons 870, I didn't use a chamber guide, just went slow and kept it really wet with WD-40, I did use 2 finer grits of polishing pads on my sons, the secret IMO is to keep the speed slow on the drill and keep it lubricated I keep a pretty stesdy motion up and down the barrel but the speed of the drill slow,both 870's pattern great! WD-40 is fine to polish with, Its all I,ve ever used and like I said, my guns pattern fine,I do not use it to clean my guns though because it will gum up.
tried steel wool and gotta admit im thinkin my gun didnt like it ...
ok...i didnt start this to start crap or to hear that im crazy for using this or that. i put it out to maybe help others in the future to NOT do what i did. maybe it was the wd40...maybe it was the alcohol..heck i dont know.
any of yall ever goofedd around and did something out of the ordinary? if not, then you may not belong here. i have used wd 40 and steel wool before with absolutely no problems...after reading on here by some that they too did it and it worked well for them. honestly, im just after a good, clean bbl. i cant sit still long enough to swap 7 different abrasives, 3 different comppunds and all that to polish a bbl..and honestly ive never saw the need to. i just want it good and clean to possibly help with the pattern. i just dont see 45 mins to 1 hr to polish..just not for me.....not saying it doesnt help, i just cant see myself doing it.
when i shot this gun saturday it was a rodeo from the get go. it shot crazy at one time and then 2 hrs later and nothing changed it shot back to normal and threw some good patterns.
again, i put this out there to mayne help some others..even if 1 person takes something useful from this, then ive done what i wanted to do. i didnt put it out there to sart a peeing contest. live and learn right? we all learn by doing. to truly polish or not...i dont know and wont worry about it, just want a good clean bbl to sling some shot through. i will now back up and regroup from here and go at it again. both bbls have already been cleaned and dried and are ready for more..hopefully that will come tomorrow.
thanks for looking and putting your comments out there.
To be honest I have never polished any of my shotgun barrels. BUT I shoot alot of centerfire, muzzleloader, & tons of rimfire. I clean all of these guns with Shooters Choice Solvent. It gets them absolutely spotless. It cuts all of the plastic loose from shooting Sabot muzzlerloader bullets & ballistic tip bullets. I totally saturate a bronze brush & clean the bore ( with a bore guide ) then run saturated patches through the bore then dry patches. The bore looks like a mirror when finished . Even a muzzleloader that's really nasty takes less than 10 min. Try some Shooters Choice ! It's good stuff !
vaturkey :newmascot:
Fountian2, thanks for posting, some good dialogue resulted, some not, but the wheels are turning and that makes this a great site.
In the end, when the truth of the cause is known, everyone will benefit.
Quote from: Crutch on March 12, 2012, 09:50:53 PM
Fountian2, thanks for posting, some good dialogue resulted, some not, but the wheels are turning and that makes this a great site.
In the end, when the truth of the cause is known, everyone will benefit.
I was just getting ready to post something like this, but you beat me to it.
I agree.
Nobody even argued here.
I know everybody has their way to do things. But I myself would not run steel wool thru any of my barrels. Now some may do so and that is their choice, and it may work for them. But I have 2 great shooting guns and I don't plan on changing them by running steel thru them. And I myself can't recommend doing so is all I'm saying.
Title: "polishing" bbls...yall take it easy...
A little work is required for "Polishing", otherwise your results will be inconsistent at best. You can't expect much more.
Maybe you should have went with the "deep cleaning" method instead. "Allaboutshooting" can help you with that.
Threads like this one will absolutely turn people away from polishing, when polishing isn't actually what was being performed.
Fountian2, I am not trying to bash you at all, so forgive me if it appears like that. I just know, that when "polishing" is done correctly, it has proven to be a valuable method of optimizing pattern density and consistency.
I hope the problem you had works out for the best. Have a great season.
:TooFunny:
Quote from: RemingtonRules on March 12, 2012, 09:52:15 AM
This is funny. Guy has a problem, states problem, then does not want to listen to possible answers to his problem. I believe the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and expecting a different result. I will not waste any more time here.
yup, real funny...i solute u both.... :thanks:
Every body has go over the edge with this. The barrel is not that bad. It got a mark in it and it not from the polish. It from something else. It can be fixed as long as it dont get fooled with anymore. The Polish maid it slick and like everything else folks look down it after they do it and shoot it. Now it shows up more or you just see it until now. I had never looked down it until the number fell off.
Now the numbers came back after a few rounds to get the barrel back in shape. I have seen this more then one time that a gun on KILL will be a funny thing to tune/set up. Some like clean some like dirty. This gun like to be oil free or dirty.
yup the 20 has something inside it, but its fixable and not bad. the only thing i have against me now is time..i head to s florida friday to hunt. i have options tho......
sumtoy, i get with ya tomorrow if u have time.
Quote from: fountain2 on March 12, 2012, 08:02:59 PM
ok...i didnt start this to start crap or to hear that im crazy for using this or that. i put it out to maybe help others in the future to NOT do what i did. maybe it was the wd40...maybe it was the alcohol..heck i dont know.
any of yall ever goofedd around and did something out of the ordinary? if not, then you may not belong here. i have used wd 40 and steel wool before with absolutely no problems...after reading on here by some that they too did it and it worked well for them. honestly, im just after a good, clean bbl. i cant sit still long enough to swap 7 different abrasives, 3 different comppunds and all that to polish a bbl..and honestly ive never saw the need to. i just want it good and clean to possibly help with the pattern. i just dont see 45 mins to 1 hr to polish..just not for me.....not saying it doesnt help, i just cant see myself doing it.
when i shot this gun saturday it was a rodeo from the get go. it shot crazy at one time and then 2 hrs later and nothing changed it shot back to normal and threw some good patterns.
again, i put this out there to mayne help some others..even if 1 person takes something useful from this, then ive done what i wanted to do. i didnt put it out there to sart a peeing contest. live and learn right? we all learn by doing. to truly polish or not...i dont know and wont worry about it, just want a good clean bbl to sling some shot through. i will now back up and regroup from here and go at it again. both bbls have already been cleaned and dried and are ready for more..hopefully that will come tomorrow.
thanks for looking and putting your comments out there.
Thank you. :smiley-char092:
no prob bud. i had a problem, and i figured more did too ( i was right) and wanted to put it out there as to what i did and what happened. aint no shame in my game. everybody gonna screw up. live and learn. it still is a dealy gun and will shoot with the rest of em..but thats not the issue..i just wanted to throw out a heads up. they both have been worked over since and are shiny, but the cd has a little bad spot in it i didnt see when i got it..no biggie. thats life...at least for me