There is some BSing about pellet counts in the 10 at 40 or Ammunition has changed by the manufactures. I ordered some more shells from Midway since I thought something may be wrong with the lots numbers I got from Dunns. I also got a Tru glo SSX choke, clean the barrell, and polished it. This is 40 yards measured with a 200 foot steel tape. Some shots were clean and some were dirty. You would be surprised which is which.
Based on others, I was looking for averages at 40 with the federals in the 140 to 170 range depending on choke type. I was looking for Hevi 13s up in the 150 to 180 range based on what others have claimed. Im FAR off on those averages. I cut open a Federal heavyweight and counted 335. Others have said 340, 330, and 320.....so I think 330 is a solid average per shell.
Here is my 10 inch circle.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h173/dcrow77/P1010221.jpg)
Here is what I got today. This is the Federal 7s from Dunns. one IC 555, Sum toy 562-5, and Truglo SSX
Sum Toy......105 in 10, 298 on paper
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h173/dcrow77/P1010226.jpg)
Tru glo......96 in 10, 270 on the paper
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h173/dcrow77/P1010225.jpg)
Indian Creek, 119 in 10, 307 on the paper
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h173/dcrow77/P1010222.jpg)
Federals from Midway
Sum Toy at 40. 109 in 10, 294 on paper
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h173/dcrow77/P1010228.jpg)
Truglo, 119 in 10, 291 on paper
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h173/dcrow77/P1010223.jpg)
IC 555 at 40, 168 in 10, 317 on paper
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h173/dcrow77/P1010224.jpg)
The IC pattern from the front side on the turkey.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h173/dcrow77/P1010231.jpg)
Hevi 13 7s at 40
Truglo SSX....152 in 10, 321 on paper
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h173/dcrow77/P1010229.jpg)
IC 555...........109 in 10, 293 on paper
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h173/dcrow77/P1010228.jpg)
Are you drawing your 10" circle on paper before you shoot? Looks like the most dense parts of your pattern are not actually part of the circle.
Pardon me for saying, but shoot the paper first then draw a 10" circle around the most dense part of your pattern if that is not what you are doing already.
Your numbers with the SSX and H13 7's is on par with what I am getting from same setup.
Quote from: msgobblergetter on March 04, 2012, 05:24:42 PM
Are you drawing your 10" circle on paper before you shoot? Looks like the most dense parts of your pattern are not actually part of the circle.
Pardon me for saying, but shoot the paper first then draw a 10" circle around the most dense part of your pattern if that is not what you are doing already.
Thats how I did it. The target has a 7 inch circle built in around the turkey. If you look at the IC pattern that put up 168 you can see the 10 inch circle coming through from the back side as I found the tightest part. On another target you can see another 10 inch circle drawn in pen where I thought it may have been denser.
I think I may not be perfect centering the 10.....but Im not far enough off to be losing on average of 30 to 40 pellets per target. Here is where I shifted the IC target that put up 119. I shifted it about 2 inches. It is only 121.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h173/dcrow77/P1010233.jpg)
shot my encore Friday with fed 7s from midway. got 152 with a sumtoy in the encore and 140 with a dirty mossberg 500.
I polished the barrel on the encore again and the numbers went from 113 to the 152.
I dont know if that is what did it or the shells that differnet. That one came from a different box than the first but the same lot number. I'm going to shoot a few more to make sure they are constant.
i don't think they are going to be many people getting 170 to 190 with the hevis. those do seem like high numbers for 1 and 1/4 once shot.
Quote from: jtharpe on March 04, 2012, 06:01:02 PM
shot my encore Friday with fed 7s from midway. got 152 with a sumtoy in the encore and 140 with a dirty mossberg 500.
I polished the barrel on the encore again and the numbers went from 113 to the 152.
I dont know if that is what did it or the shells that differnet. That one came from a different box than the first but the same lot number. I'm going to shoot a few more to make sure they are constant.
i don't think they are going to be many people getting 170 to 190 with the hevis. those do seem like high numbers for 1 and 1/4 once shot.
What lot number are your Midway shells just out of curiosity. Im ok with the 150 for the hevi in the tru glo. That a nice pattern. We shot the truglo in a Charles Daly today as well and it did about the same at 40.
My gun didn't like the ssx or the rsf. Neither did it like a puregold or jellyhead. the best hevi patterns I got was from a truglo gsx .565. My best choke for the fed hw #7's is a hastings .562.
Shane
Here is the interesting data. On the other side of the 10 inch circle is the actual turkey head target just like the one in the picture of the IC pattern that put up 168. Here are the totals in the head and neck of that target at 40. I didnt feel like hearing the "your POI is off comments" So even with some stuff centered and some off target a little here is what is hitting skin at 40.
Sumtoy.......28 and 30
IC.........46, 44, and 28
Tru Glo........25, 34, and 18 ( funny thing is the 34 on this one is the 152 hevi 13, I was high and right, if centered It could have easily been 50 pellets)
I was taught many years ago that your max range is when you only put 8 to 10 pellets in the head. I guess Im whinning pretty bad after these numbers at 40 yards.
Quote from: TrkyHntr on March 04, 2012, 07:08:20 PM
My gun didn't like the ssx or the rsf. Neither did it like a puregold or jellyhead. the best hevi patterns I got was from a truglo gsx .565. My best choke for the fed hw #7's is a hastings .562.
Shane
Im looking hard for the Hastings....man they go quick.
I'm on par with you with the Hevi-13 also. Try polishing one more time, I used 3 different grits of pads, I got them from a Solid surface counter top installer, he used them to buff out joints in counter tops, I also used Hoppes to re-deep clean the barrel after polishing. I also soaked my choke in Lacquer thinner overnight and used a bronze brush to clean it, Dylan also shot a bunch of lead out of that choke before I ever cleaned it, I think that helps, it may not but I believe it does, He shoots a lot and he probably run 4 or 5 boxes of dove loads through it before I ever cleaned the choke.
Im wondering how a constriction type choke like a terror choke does with these. I use a Terror 700 in my 12ga for blackclouds and it is unreal.
The hasting is an old constriction based choke. Im going to see if SRM makes a 20 ga terror. Bet could have them make a 570 or 565
Looks like they have a 575, 595, and a 615
http://surecycle.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=74&idcategory=0
http://surecycle.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=77&idcategory=0
I just contacted them to see if the would make a 565 or 560.
IC 555 at 40, 168 in 10, 317 on paper.
I would be hard pressed to find anything wrong with that.
I really believe in shooting a lot through a choke to sort of break it in, I don' have any proof that it works but it seems like it has helped my IC for my SX3 and the SSX to get more consistent, and I really clean the internals of the chokes, You will be surprised at how much gunk will come out of a wad stripping choke after 5 or 6 shots.
Quote from: redarrow on March 04, 2012, 07:34:44 PM
IC 555 at 40, 168 in 10, 317 on paper.
I would be hard pressed to find anything wrong with that.
Heck I love that. Thats only 1 shot though. The other IC shot went down to 119. Guys say they are averaging 160s to 170s with that choke. Average is several shots. Thats the choke Im gonna roll with. Im gonna shoot it a few more times to see what the true average may be.
Keep a check on gunbroker and ebay for a hastings. If I find one I'll give you a heads up.
Shane
:icon_thumright:
my numbers got better with a dirtier barrel,maybe a flc wad does not like clean barrels.i know ive read some that do not.very even patterns on most of the shots.hope ya get what ya want.did ya try anything different from sumtoy?amazeing what different chokes do in different guns.i had a smith and wesson that was puting up 185 average with a ballistics 554 before it broke.put the same choke in my benelli nova and it was horrible.
spoke with William today. our shoot got cancelled due to the weather this weekend. Im gonna make it up there and we are gonna tinker a little.
Quote from: TrkyHntr on March 04, 2012, 07:08:20 PM
My gun didn't like the ssx or the rsf. Neither did it like a puregold or jellyhead. the best hevi patterns I got was from a truglo gsx .565. My best choke for the fed hw #7's is a hastings .562.
Shane
I put 95 H13 6's in the 10 yesterday at a taped 40 with the GSX and my 870. Shot three shots, had 95, 98, and 99. I will hunt it.
I get pretty good patterns out of my .565 Truglo GSX using the Federal HW #6's have not tried #7's and any of the Federal lead FC shells do good through it also,been a great choke for 15.00
Maybe a question you've already addressed but what was the weather like? Temperature can make a difference and so can wind at 40 yards.
That IC pattern is not too shabby at all.
Weather was 63. Windy, but I was waiting for the gust to stop before shooting. I was in some sheltered planted pines.
I plan to shoot the IC with the Feds and shoot the Hevi's with the tru glo.
[/quote]
What lot number are your Midway shells just out of curiosity. Im ok with the 150 for the hevi in the tru glo. That a nice pattern. We shot the truglo in a Charles Daly today as well and it did about the same at 40.
[/quote]
37VT455 is the lot number
I've been apart of a lot of 20 ga patterning the past 2 weeks.
The best I've seen a federal hw 7 do was 129 in the 10 at 40 with an RSF and a 28"
870.
The best I've seen with hevi13 7s was 159 with a pg tempest and 157 with an RSF.
I saw 4x5x7 nitros go 170 in the 10" at 40 with a pg tempest, as well.
170 is an incredibly high number and ive been wondering about some of the claims on here myself...
It is tapered and choked by constricting the shot.....no wad catchers or ports etc.
I own a 12 ga 665 and 700 terror choke that i use for ducks hunting. They shot the FC wads with the Black clouds unbelievable. I sometimes pick up ducks with golf ball size chunks missing out of them from the 30 to 40 yard range.
I also shot turkey loads through the 665. It patterned the best behind my IC and Kicks.
They make a 575 for a 20 ga. I know there are some getting great patterns with the more open 570 chokes. The guy at terror told me the 575 is very tight and likes the FC wad. I may get one, but right now 90.00 bucks on a choke to get 20 pellets more in a target is probably better spent on two tanks of gas to get me in the woods.
Savduck, Dickson Sportsmen Store in Dickson,TN. Has 6 or 7 boxes of the Lot# I shot if your interested they may ship, I bought 3 boxes this afternoon, they are 18.99 a box though.
all of my federals are a few years old. In my charles daly the last few times I have counted pellets thy were always in the 170's. I use a "lead only" remington super full. If you want to shoot one of my shells and my choke let me know. Im in hinesville if you wanna hook up.
Your 870 gets very similar numbers to what mine gets.
I too shoot the IC .555 with the Fed #7's. I think you got a shooter! :z-guntootsmiley:
Yes PM me their number.
I actually have been doing some more data on my patterns from today. Im about to make another post about it.
Quote from: DUPREE on March 05, 2012, 07:34:33 PM
all of my federals are a few years old. In my charles daly the last few times I have counted pellets thy were always in the 170's. I use a "lead only" remington super full. If you want to shoot one of my shells and my choke let me know. Im in hinesville if you wanna hook up.
I appreciate it. Im actually gonna probably be booked up until opening day, but I may call you and hunt with you on post one morning.
I did a little more data on my patterns today, and Ive actually decided I dont want that 140 and higher average with the federals. I want to try to stay between 125 to 135 average.
If your 870 is the worst mine is a close 2nd. My patterns don't approach most people's on here. Tried the SSX, Jellyhead, Sumtoy, and RSF...all through polished barrels. I've shot through a clean barrel and also on a fouled barrel. Ran Hevi 7's, Fed 7's, Mag Blends, and Super Pheasant lead 6's through them. On average the Hevi 7's put up better numbers than the Fed 7's for me. I'm still going to hunt with the Feds because I have a bunch of them and the patterns are still plenty good to kill, 120-135 @ 40 with the SSX and Sumtoy. The RSF and Jellyhead aren't even close to that. I think numbers around 150 with the Fed's would be perfect but I haven't been able to do it.
After doing the data last night you can have those 150 in the 10 patterns. AT first I liked them, but they are to tight. No room for error. If you pull your shot just a few inches you blow you pattern
If you drop the Feds down to where your average is 120 to 130 in the 10 it almost doubles your kill zone (18) inches still putting between 85 to 100 in a ten ring. This pattern will reach out past 40 if you need it and still put plenty of pellets in da head for an ethical shot.
My new mission is to find the combo to give me between 115 to 130 on every shot.
Quote from: savduck on March 06, 2012, 05:20:59 PM
After doing the data last night you can have those 150 in the 10 patterns. AT first I liked them, but they are to tight. No room for error. If you pull your shot just a few inches you blow you pattern
If you drop the Feds down to where your average is 120 to 130 in the 10 it almost doubles your kill zone (18) inches still putting between 85 to 100 in a ten ring. This pattern will reach out past 40 if you need it and still put plenty of pellets in da head for an ethical shot.
My new mission is to find the combo to give me between 115 to 130 on every shot.
This is where I am with my H13 6's. Running sub 100 but over 90 each shot.
Quote from: savduck on March 06, 2012, 05:20:59 PM
After doing the data last night you can have those 150 in the 10 patterns. AT first I liked them, but they are to tight. No room for error. If you pull your shot just a few inches you blow you pattern
If you drop the Feds down to where your average is 120 to 130 in the 10 it almost doubles your kill zone (18) inches still putting between 85 to 100 in a ten ring. This pattern will reach out past 40 if you need it and still put plenty of pellets in da head for an ethical shot.
My new mission is to find the combo to give me between 115 to 130 on every shot.
I like your reasoning there as I believe that you get what is necessary in the 10 such as 80-100 and then spread those others around that pattern as evenly as possible. A 20 gauge doesn't carry over 1 1/2 ounce loads usually and two pellets in the same hole is a waste of a pellet to me. 150-200-250-300 whatever in the 10 is not as important to me as much as having that well spaced pattern around the 10" core such as a 15"-20" circle. I say that you are definitely on the right track. :icon_thumright:
Quote from: savduck on March 06, 2012, 05:20:59 PM
After doing the data last night you can have those 150 in the 10 patterns. AT first I liked them, but they are to tight. No room for error. If you pull your shot just a few inches you blow you pattern
If you drop the Feds down to where your average is 120 to 130 in the 10 it almost doubles your kill zone (18) inches still putting between 85 to 100 in a ten ring. This pattern will reach out past 40 if you need it and still put plenty of pellets in da head for an ethical shot.
My new mission is to find the combo to give me between 115 to 130 on every shot.
To be honest, if your mission is to get a consistent 115 minimum every shot, you should have been able to get that with just about any turkey choke and maybe even a factory full choke.
Im gonna probably run that tru glo ssx but with one lot number of shells from that 119 pattern. If I shoot the second lot of shells, Ill do it with the IC that put up the 119.
When I start shooting the hevis, Ill run the tru glo again....just due to the fact that it isnt as dense as the federals, and the higher pattern density is probably a better idea.
Quote from: savduck on March 04, 2012, 04:29:45 PM
There is some BSing about pellet counts in the 10 at 40 or Ammunition has changed by the manufactures. I ordered some more shells from Midway since I thought something may be wrong with the lots numbers I got from Dunns. I also got a Tru glo SSX choke, clean the barrell, and polished it. This is 40 yards measured with a 200 foot steel tape. Some shots were clean and some were dirty. You would be surprised which is which.
Based on others, I was looking for averages at 40 with the federals in the 140 to 170 range depending on choke type. I was looking for Hevi 13s up in the 150 to 180 range based on what others have claimed. Im FAR off on those averages. I cut open a Federal heavyweight and counted 335. Others have said 340, 330, and 320.....so I think 330 is a solid average per shell.
Here is my 10 inch circle.
Here is what I got today. This is the Federal 7s from Dunns. one IC 555, Sum toy 562-5, and Truglo SSX
Sum Toy......105 in 10, 298 on paper
Tru glo......96 in 10, 270 on the paper
Indian Creek, 119 in 10, 307 on the paper
I apparently have the 1187 version of your 870 because mine would not shoot the Feds worth a flip. I was lucky to break 100 at 40. With the Hevi 7s, I got 168 at 40 using a Truglo SSX .550. I though maybe it was the shells, so I had a friend shoot one through his 870 Compact 20 and it put up good numbers at 40. He didn't count all the pellets in the 10" circle while at the range, but it did put 50+ in the head/neck of the target at 40.