I have a Browning Silver shotgun and shooting a jellyhead 670 choke with mag blends 3". But my gun patterns to the left about 8-10 inches. My question is: If I put some tru glo rifle sites on my gun is there enough windage adjustment to get me lined up right? I have always shot a bead so I dont have a clue as to how much adjustment these types of sights have. Everything is fine as far as my elevation goes. Or could there be something else causing this problem? I have never had a shotgun that shot this bad off.
I would go with a red dot sight. You will be able to zero the sight to where your gun shoots no problem.
If it is shooting that far off I would check to make sure your choke is seated square in the barrel. It is not uncommon for choke threads to be off center when cut, thus throwing off your choke by a few thousands of an inch to one side.
One way to check this is to take you gun, unloaded and action open, install a choke and look down the barrel with a flashlight. You should see an even amount of "shelf" around the circumference of the choke where the bottom (or skirt) of the choke sits.
Some times the chokes itself is not straight and one way to test is to try another choke to see if you get the same results.
Quote from: campcreekfarm on March 02, 2012, 12:12:26 PM
I have a Browning Silver shotgun and shooting a jellyhead 670 choke with mag blends 3". But my gun patterns to the left about 8-10 inches. My question is: If I put some tru glo rifle sites on my gun is there enough windage adjustment to get me lined up right? I have always shot a bead so I dont have a clue as to how much adjustment these types of sights have. Everything is fine as far as my elevation goes. Or could there be something else causing this problem? I have never had a shotgun that shot this bad off.
That would be a lot of adjustment for any sighting device. Does your factory full choke shoot that far off at that distance?
It could be fit issue as well. Have you made any adjustments to cast or to drop? There are several factors to consider.
Many guns will shoot to a different POI from a solid rest than from your shoulder. Are you shooting from a rest or from your shoulder? I'd try both to see if you find a difference.
Please let know if I can be of help.
Thanks,
Clark
Quote from: allaboutshooting on March 02, 2012, 01:11:46 PM
Quote from: campcreekfarm on March 02, 2012, 12:12:26 PM
I have a Browning Silver shotgun and shooting a jellyhead 670 choke with mag blends 3". But my gun patterns to the left about 8-10 inches. My question is: If I put some tru glo rifle sites on my gun is there enough windage adjustment to get me lined up right? I have always shot a bead so I dont have a clue as to how much adjustment these types of sights have. Everything is fine as far as my elevation goes. Or could there be something else causing this problem? I have never had a shotgun that shot this bad off.
That would be a lot of adjustment for any sighting device. Does your factory full choke shoot that far off at that distance?
It could be fit issue as well. Have you made any adjustments to cast or to drop? There are several factors to consider.
Many guns will shoot to a different POI from a solid rest than from your shoulder. Are you shooting from a rest or from your shoulder? I'd try both to see if you find a difference.
Please let know if I can be of help.
Thanks,
Clark
Thanks, I need all the help I can get.
1. No I havent shot it with my factory full to check. But I will. Would you suggest just using dove loads at a closer range? I hate burning up high dollar ammo.
2. I was shooting off my shoulder sitting at the base of a tree with gun propped on my knee.
3. I have made no adjustment to the shims. But to me the gun fits me like a glove I think? The reason I bought it is that when I picked it up it just felt right.
Thanks for your help. I really dont want to have it drilled and tapped .
I started at 15 yards with dove shot, then move out to 40 with the dove loads. Only after thats close, do you need to run the turkey loads. I will also shoot once at 20 with the turkey loads to see what the pattern looks like. I bet the truglo will make up 8" @ 40.
I would install the factory full choke and shoot at some "big paper" or cardboard that's at least 3 feet by 3 feet. Put a dot or some marker in the center and shoot at it with some 2.75" low brass inexpensive shotshells and see what happens.
Many times with those guns the cast can be off and effect the POI when using the beads. It's important that when you shoulder that gun, with your cheek on the comb, that you're looking right down the center line of the rib. Many things can effect that. Some of us have "thicker" cheeks, shorter necks, etc. than the "typical American male" for which that gun was designed. A very slight adjustment to the cast can cure some POI issues very easily.
Safety first with this procedure! With an empty UNLOADED gun, checked physically and visually, and leaving the bolt open, you can shoulder it, cheek on comb and have someone in front of you, at a few feet from the muzzle, look to see if you are directly over the center of the receiver and rib on that gun. If you're not, that can be the problem. A little cast adjustment could take care of that easily. Safety first if you use this procedure.
Thanks,
Clark
Use a full length mirror and be totally safe. Many problems are caused by fit or mounting the shotgun to your shoulder as Clark states.
Your choke threads in the barrel probably aren't concentric to the bore. You could experiment with different chokes until you find one that seats right and matches your POA. I've had to do this on several shotguns. It's not uncommon.
Quote from: allaboutshooting on March 02, 2012, 01:59:19 PM
I would install the factory full choke and shoot at some "big paper" or cardboard that's at least 3 feet by 3 feet. Put a dot or some marker in the center and shoot at it with some 2.75" low brass inexpensive shotshells and see what happens.
Many times with those guns the cast can be off and effect the POI when using the beads. It's important that when you shoulder that gun, with your cheek on the comb, that you're looking right down the center line of the rib. Many things can effect that. Some of us have "thicker" cheeks, shorter necks, etc. than the "typical American male" for which that gun was designed. A very slight adjustment to the cast can cure some POI issues very easily.
Safety first with this procedure! With an empty UNLOADED gun, checked physically and visually, and leaving the bolt open, you can shoulder it, cheek on comb and have someone in front of you, at a few feet from the muzzle, look to see if you are directly over the center of the receiver and rib on that gun. If you're not, that can be the problem. A little cast adjustment could take care of that easily. Safety first if you use this procedure.
Thanks,
Clark
So I am guessin if it shoots good with the factory full then it has to be the choke?
Quote from: goblr77 on March 02, 2012, 02:32:44 PM
Your choke threads in the barrel probably aren't concentric to the bore. You could experiment with different chokes until you find one that seats right and matches your POA. I've had to do this on several shotguns. It's not uncommon.
The bore threads or choke threads?
Quote from: campcreekfarm on March 02, 2012, 04:48:10 PM
Quote from: allaboutshooting on March 02, 2012, 01:59:19 PM
I would install the factory full choke and shoot at some "big paper" or cardboard that's at least 3 feet by 3 feet. Put a dot or some marker in the center and shoot at it with some 2.75" low brass inexpensive shotshells and see what happens.
Many times with those guns the cast can be off and effect the POI when using the beads. It's important that when you shoulder that gun, with your cheek on the comb, that you're looking right down the center line of the rib. Many things can effect that. Some of us have "thicker" cheeks, shorter necks, etc. than the "typical American male" for which that gun was designed. A very slight adjustment to the cast can cure some POI issues very easily.
Safety first with this procedure! With an empty UNLOADED gun, checked physically and visually, and leaving the bolt open, you can shoulder it, cheek on comb and have someone in front of you, at a few feet from the muzzle, look to see if you are directly over the center of the receiver and rib on that gun. If you're not, that can be the problem. A little cast adjustment could take care of that easily. Safety first if you use this procedure.
Thanks,
Clark
So I am guessin if it shoots good with the factory full then it has to be the choke?
Yes, if your POI matches your POA with the factory choke tube, the problem lies in the turkey choke. That does not necessarily mean it's a faulty product, it just means that for your gun, with that choke tube and with that shotshell, it has a different POI.
It's not uncommon to have a different POI with different chokes or even different types of shotshells, etc. Some guns seem to have a preference for a particular choke or shotshell and will shoot to POA with it and not with another.
Before you invest in another choke however, it's good to see if your gun shoots to point of aim with the factory flush mounted full choke tube. If it does not, you may be able to easily correct that with a pretty simple adjustment and save yourself some money, time and aggravation.
Here's one article that speaks to shotgun fit http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CFPage?mode=article&objectID=32617&storeId=10151&catalogId=10001&langId=-1
Here's another that addresses "Cast" very well and has illustrations that are easy to read. http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/fit.html
I hope that helps some.
Thanks,
Clark
Man, there is a lot of information here. I'd go with your sites and line it in. If you are happy with your patterns, you'll be able to get it shooting on.
When trying different chokes in my 835, they all were a little different. I picked the one I like the best pattern from, put the site of my choice on there and then lined it in. No problems now.
Also, someone tell me how in the world your gun will shoot different from a rest and from your shoulder? If it is different, then you are torquing the gun and like bow hunting, will through off your shot, even though you are lined in.
Quote from: campcreekfarm on March 02, 2012, 04:49:33 PM
Quote from: goblr77 on March 02, 2012, 02:32:44 PM
Your choke threads in the barrel probably aren't concentric to the bore. You could experiment with different chokes until you find one that seats right and matches your POA. I've had to do this on several shotguns. It's not uncommon.
The bore threads or choke threads?
The choke tube recess in your barrel. Longer chokes usually magnify the problem in my experience. I have an Xtrema now that has this problem but I worked around it. The factory flush tubes shoot pretty much dead on but the long IC and PG chokes would shoot about 6" low and slightly to the right. Just so happens the best choke I've run in that gun shoots pretty close. The hevi13 choke...it's only a couple inches low and that's manageable. Check out this link. Remington had a bad problem with this about ten years ago and I experienced it firsthand with two 870's and one 1187. http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-5997.html
BTW I have an 835 that shoots way high with every choke I've stuck in it. I don't think the choke tube recess is off. I'm convinced the barrel has a slight bend. It was too much to adjust out with the factory FO sights so I just scoped it. It throws too good of a pattern for me to get rid of it and having a scope on a turkey rig isn't a problem. If I'm planning on using a gun for wingshooting and it won't shoot to POA with a bead it has to go.
Quote from: sugarray on March 02, 2012, 09:55:27 PM
Man, there is a lot of information here. I'd go with your sites and line it in. If you are happy with your patterns, you'll be able to get it shooting on.
When trying different chokes in my 835, they all were a little different. I picked the one I like the best pattern from, put the site of my choice on there and then lined it in. No problems now.
Also, someone tell me how in the world your gun will shoot different from a rest and from your shoulder? If it is different, then you are torquing the gun and like bow hunting, will through off your shot, even though you are lined in.
It is a lot of information. Many times we as turkey hunters do not consider the effects of drop and cast when trying our guns. We can take care of many of our POI issues with some type of sight and that works well, in many cases. When guns are drilled and tapped at the factory, it's pretty easy for us to install a base and some type of sight.
There are also several good open sights that mount pretty easily on the ribs of our guns.
In the case of many light weight guns today with alloy (aluminum) receivers, it's not so easy to drill and tap them and some gunsmiths won't even try it. That leaves us with fewer options.
It's really nice when the manufacturer furnishes "do it yourself" adjustments for drop and cast using included shims. Since many of us are not the "average American male" size that most designers use as a model, it's really quite helpful. In years past, we had to find a gunsmith who knew how to do this and that we could afford. Now, it's pretty easy.
A few years ago when some of the more popular gun rests for sighting-in were introduced, we started noticing that the POI would change when we sighted in the gun using them and when we shot the gun from our shoulder.
I have read several explanations for that over the years written by many different gun writers, etc. and it seems to be the case for many people but I can't tell you why that's the case.
I have a number of those devices, some simple and some rather complex with hydraulic triggers and ones that allow the gun to move with the recoil. I don't often use them anymore for a gun that I want to shoot either in the field or in competition however.
They work well if I'm evaluating a new shotshell or choke tube just to see how it prints but if I want to really use the gun, I have to shoot it from my shoulder.
I don't want to hijack this thread but it would be interesting to hear if other shooters here have had the same experience.
Thanks,
Clark