I've got some nitro 4x5x7 h51013a shells that pattern great in my sbeII. this will be my first season hunting with them. do these shells have the downrange energy to kill at 50-55 yards consistently if needed?
nope
Energy-yes
Pattern @ 55-???, it would be tough, borderline at best. Most patterns usually drop off quick after 40.
Quote from: joey46 on February 19, 2012, 06:09:29 AM
nope 2x. Where is all this 50 yard + stuff coming from now? IMO no "super load" will kill consistently at those ranges. You'll kill some, wound more. These TV clowns now like to say "clean miss". With a shotgun there are probably few truly clean misses at long range. I will agree that with today's tight chokes you can get a clean miss at a very close bird but a "miss" at 40+ is not very "clean" at all. That bird is carrying a few souvenirs.
He asked a pretty straight forward question about energy out to a certain yardage. Not your opinion of how far he or anyone else should shoot. My setup still gets 130+ in a 10" @ 50, not to mention the 20" pattern. I'll take it everytime.
Clint
I think the shells will have more than enough energy at 5o yards. In my opinion, and this is just an opinion, if these high end shells don't have the energy to kill clean at 50 yards then why use them. 40 yards is not hard to get a good killing pattern out of lead and it costs alot less.
That shel in straight #5's or 4,5,6's is a consistent killer at 50 yards. I am unsure of the #7's but have heard good reports of the triplex loads with the #7's in them.
can someone provide ft lbs of energy for these pellets at different yardages?
they have plenty of killing power to 50...im no scientist or data expert. the only data i can provide is real world killing results and i have killked to 50 and accidentally past with no problems...and that was before the mega-weights. good shells, kinda expensive.
they have plenty of power...on both ends
i DO NOT plan on making 50 yard shots regularly but i have misjudged distance before and will probly make the same mistake again. and when i do i want to to know my weapon is capable of killing.
Quote from: joey46 on February 19, 2012, 12:23:31 PM
Quote from: Ctomp1974 on February 19, 2012, 06:59:29 AM
Energy-yes
Pattern @ 55-???, it would be tough, borderline at best. Most patterns usually drop off quick after 40.
Quote from: joey46 on February 19, 2012, 06:09:29 AM
nope 2x. Where is all this 50 yard + stuff coming from now? IMO no "super load" will kill consistently at those ranges. You'll kill some, wound more. These TV clowns now like to say "clean miss". With a shotgun there are probably few truly clean misses at long range. I will agree that with today's tight chokes you can get a clean miss at a very close bird but a "miss" at 40+ is not very "clean" at all. That bird is carrying a few souvenirs.
He asked a pretty straight forward question about energy out to a certain yardage. Not your opinion of how far he or anyone else should shoot. My setup still gets 130+ in a 10" @ 50, not to mention the 20" pattern. I'll take it everytime.
Clint
Well he got my opinion anyway didn't he. Shooting at 10" circles at the range is a whole lot different than shooting at a gobbler in a hunting situation. Again IMO if you start regularly playing the 50 yard and up game you will be wounding a lot of birds. There are still a few rifle states around. Maybe he can try his long range shooting there.
Wow? Just like shooting your mouth off on the internet vs standing face to face. It is a different game. If he has a decent 10"pattern at 50" he will have a pretty good 20" pattern. The pellets don't just diappear. You're not gonna find much audience for the "don't shoot past 40 here". Just about any gun, with the right combo can get acceptable killing patterns out to fifty. He is obviously working and testing his. As far as ranting about wounded turkeys-happens all the time to everyone at some point. Most of the wounded birds are shooter error. And I have an opinion for You. "You don't seem intelligent enough to know what you don't know"
There have been enough people do the math on these shells and all HTL shot. At the velocities the Nitros are launched at, they will cary the energy to kill far beyond where your pattern falls apart. Any Person who disagrees with this needs to post up his proof that they dont carry sufficient energy. The "ethics" of shooting past 40 are not in question. The question was strictly if they carry the energy to kill. They do, and there is mountains of scientific proof to back that up. I will bet 100% that any miss or wounded bird was shooter error. It happens to all of us. Dont blame the car when the driver drives into the ditch.
Quote from: joey46 on February 19, 2012, 12:23:31 PM
Quote from: Ctomp1974 on February 19, 2012, 06:59:29 AM
Energy-yes
Pattern @ 55-???, it would be tough, borderline at best. Most patterns usually drop off quick after 40.
Quote from: joey46 on February 19, 2012, 06:09:29 AM
nope 2x. Where is all this 50 yard + stuff coming from now? IMO no "super load" will kill consistently at those ranges. You'll kill some, wound more. These TV clowns now like to say "clean miss". With a shotgun there are probably few truly clean misses at long range. I will agree that with today's tight chokes you can get a clean miss at a very close bird but a "miss" at 40+ is not very "clean" at all. That bird is carrying a few souvenirs.
He asked a pretty straight forward question about energy out to a certain yardage. Not your opinion of how far he or anyone else should shoot. My setup still gets 130+ in a 10" @ 50, not to mention the 20" pattern. I'll take it everytime.
Clint
Well he got my opinion anyway didn't he. Shooting at 10" circles at the range is a whole lot different than shooting at a gobbler in a hunting situation. Again IMO if you start regularly playing the 50 yard and up game you will be wounding a lot of birds. There are still a few rifle states around. Maybe he can try his long range shooting there.
Maybe you should spend more time at the range if you can't hit a 5" head with a 10 or 20" pattern.
As long as the load, weapon, and shooter are consistently capable of achieving acceptable killing patterns the shot is not unethical.
Furthermore, can you qualify your experience with htl loads as to justify your statement that they won't consistently kill at 50 yards+?? The laws of physics don't support your claim and neither do my field results.
Shoot the shells at 50 yards. If you get 100+ in a 10" circle you are good to go.
WOW
Can we all just get along?
:thanks:
QuoteWOW
Can we all just get along?
I have yet to hear a HTL shooter bash anyone shooting lead or any lead load. There is constant bashing and attempted debunking of HTL. THe HTL shooters who have spent countles years (yes I said Years) researching and testing the HTL shot get a little agitated when someone (not directed at anyone) who does not know the first thing about htl talks trash about it.
There is absolutely nothing unethical about shooting to the consistant limits of your gun. If your pattern/load is good to 35, that is the ethical limit. If your load/pattern is good to 70 consistantly, that is your ethical limit. The question should not be does HTL have the energy. The issue should always be where does the pattern fall apart.
thank for the help guys. i shot 50yds today at the range and was very impressed with the 20" patterns. will post pics soon
-Martin
So are some of you saying that 50 is the new 40? I pattern to 40 but feel I have a margin of error just in case. But planning on 50! Soon it will be 60-then 70. I try to put sticks in the ground at 25, 35. 45 to give me good estimations of range .Anything beyond that I will hope my calling skills can bring the Gobbler in closer-- or have we forgot about that important part(and perhaps most fun part) of hunting and just rely on the gun to do our job.
Quote from: Larry Mac on February 20, 2012, 01:25:06 PM
So are some of you saying that 50 is the new 40? I pattern to 40 but feel I have a margin of error just in case. But planning on 50! Soon it will be 60-then 70. I try to put sticks in the ground at 25, 35. 45 to give me good estimations of range .Anything beyond that I will hope my calling skills can bring the Gobbler in closer-- or have we forgot about that important part(and perhaps most fun part) of hunting and just rely on the gun to do our job.
First, lets not pretend that we are all good enough to not get caught up in the moment and misjudge a bird by 5-10 yds...particularly in an wide open field.
Second, is it more unethical to take a shot at 50 when you KNOW what your gun is capable of or is it more unethical to take a shot you THINK is at 40yds when you DONT KNOW what your gun can do at 50? Again, anyone that says that they are spot on with range guestimates on every bird they hunt is either lying or hasnt been hunting that long.
Also, I'm fine with someone using sticks as ranger finders, but not everyone hunts turkey like deer and has the opportunity to step off distances on every set up....matter of fact, there are very few instances where I get to a spot and actually have the chance to step off distances because Im usually moving to set up on a bird, meaning I'm trying to position myself to get one into range, on the fly and while I'd love for all of the set-ups to be well thought out that's not reality a lot of times.
Redlegs-- agree with you-- guess what I'm trying to say is that with the potential to make 10 yard mistakes in distance judgment, there needs to be a line. If you say your gun will always kill a bird at 50, and shoot always at what you think is 50 yards--Maybe it might be actually 60-- or farther. IMO lets try to get them closer with our calling skills or might as well do like the gentleman says and use a rifle
Quote from: Larry Mac on February 20, 2012, 02:05:44 PM
IMO lets try to get them closer with our calling skills or might as well do like the gentleman says and use a rifle
[/quote
:agreed:
I am all for using a rifle but the MDC won't let me :fud:
Quote from: Larry Mac on February 20, 2012, 02:05:44 PM
Redlegs-- agree with you-- guess what I'm trying to say is that with the potential to make 10 yard mistakes in distance judgment, there needs to be a line. If you say your gun will always kill a bird at 50, and shoot always at what you think is 50 yards--Maybe it might be actually 60-- or farther. IMO lets try to get them closer with our calling skills or might as well do like the gentleman says and use a rifle
Frankly, I don't care if you want to kill them with Chinese throwing stars or darts at 5 yards.
Just keep sticking sticks in the ground (id pay to watch a guy put sticks at 25, 35, and 45 yards as a gobbler burned it down on the roost 100 yards away in open timber, or while slipping in tight on one that is gobbling on the ground after flydown; let me know how often that works out for ya) and I will continue to practice my calling daily, experiment w new loads regularly, pattern my guns religiously and kill them often and when I see fit.
It's so tiring to read these ignorant comments attempting impose subjective, personal limitations on people who clearly spend tremendous time, effort and money trying to maximize the benefits of technological developments.
Go down to your local gun store and yell at 98% of the turkey hunters shooting lead with a choke that they've never patterned who are convinced that 40 yards is their effective range because guys like you believe 40 to be the standard.
:turkey2:they will get the job done if you know how the gun patterns at that determined yardage. time on a range with plenty of chokes and many shells a well built shotgun to take the abuse of the 4x5x7 nitros.
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on February 20, 2012, 06:56:11 PM
Quote from: Larry Mac on February 20, 2012, 02:05:44 PM
Redlegs-- agree with you-- guess what I'm trying to say is that with the potential to make 10 yard mistakes in distance judgment, there needs to be a line. If you say your gun will always kill a bird at 50, and shoot always at what you think is 50 yards--Maybe it might be actually 60-- or farther. IMO lets try to get them closer with our calling skills or might as well do like the gentleman says and use a rifle
Frankly, I don't care if you want to kill them with Chinese throwing stars or darts at 5 yards.
Just keep sticking sticks in the ground (id pay to watch a guy put sticks at 25, 35, and 45 yards as a gobbler burned it down on the roost 100 yards away in open timber, or while slipping in tight on one that is gobbling on the ground after flydown; let me know how often that works out for ya) and I will continue to practice my calling daily, experiment w new loads regularly, pattern my guns religiously and kill them often and when I see fit.
It's so tiring to read these ignorant comments attempting impose subjective, personal limitations on people who clearly spend tremendous time, effort and money trying to maximize the benefits of technological developments.
Go down to your local gun store and yell at 98% of the turkey hunters shooting lead with a choke that they've never patterned who are convinced that 40 yards is their effective range because guys like you believe 40 to be the standard.
you are correct. I should not impose personal limitations on someone that only cares about killing and obviously lacks the woodmanship to bring the bird closer.
I actually feel sorry that you are truly missing out on the most fun of turkey hunting, but it won 't matter for you until you change your attitude. Sorry for your loss. I am finished here.
First, I would like to say hi to everyone! I just found this forum and look forward to learning and talking to everyone. In response to the question at hand. Longest shot I've taken on a turkey with the Nitro 4x5x7 was 42 yards. I generally want them a lot closer but this tom always flew to and from this field, anyways it took just 1 shot. I have killed 3 coyotes during turkey season at a little over 50 yards and the load went in and through the coyote. I have spent a lot of time and money testing this ammo in different shotguns and chokes. It is lethal past 50 yards. Hope this helps.
Quote from: Larry Mac on February 20, 2012, 02:05:44 PM
Redlegs-- agree with you-- guess what I'm trying to say is that with the potential to make 10 yard mistakes in distance judgment, there needs to be a line. If you say your gun will always kill a bird at 50, and shoot always at what you think is 50 yards--Maybe it might be actually 60-- or farther. IMO lets try to get them closer with our calling skills or might as well do like the gentleman says and use a rifle
We all want to get them closer.
My point was that, like someone else just mentioned, 95% of the turkey hunters out there, slap a full choke of some sort on to their duck or dove gun when turkey season rolls around, go grab the first/cheapest lead turkey shells walmart carries and then go out trying to call ol big daddy in to "ethical" range without bothering to head to the range first to even see if their gun shoots to the right POA, much less what the effective range is....all the while, shaking their heads at all these new-fangled folks that shoot these fancy chokes and heavy shot cause they obviously cant call or kill turkey without them ::)
Most of the guys that are on this forum spend a lot of time at the range patterning turkey loads and getting to know their gun's. So when someone comes on here and preaches about guys needing to get better at calling or woodsmanship etc, without having any idea about the skill level of who they are talking to, it comes off wrong. Frankly, I dont feel the need to define what hunting is, or should be, all about for anyone else and as long as guys do it ethically, that's their business.
Quote from: Larry Mac on February 20, 2012, 09:37:17 PM
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on February 20, 2012, 06:56:11 PM
Quote from: Larry Mac on February 20, 2012, 02:05:44 PM
Redlegs-- agree with you-- guess what I'm trying to say is that with the potential to make 10 yard mistakes in distance judgment, there needs to be a line. If you say your gun will always kill a bird at 50, and shoot always at what you think is 50 yards--Maybe it might be actually 60-- or farther. IMO lets try to get them closer with our calling skills or might as well do like the gentleman says and use a rifle
Frankly, I don't care if you want to kill them with Chinese throwing stars or darts at 5 yards.
Just keep sticking sticks in the ground (id pay to watch a guy put sticks at 25, 35, and 45 yards as a gobbler burned it down on the roost 100 yards away in open timber, or while slipping in tight on one that is gobbling on the ground after flydown; let me know how often that works out for ya) and I will continue to practice my calling daily, experiment w new loads regularly, pattern my guns religiously and kill them often and when I see fit.
It's so tiring to read these ignorant comments attempting impose subjective, personal limitations on people who clearly spend tremendous time, effort and money trying to maximize the benefits of technological developments.
Go down to your local gun store and yell at 98% of the turkey hunters shooting lead with a choke that they've never patterned who are convinced that 40 yards is their effective range because guys like you believe 40 to be the standard.
you are correct. I should not impose personal limitations on someone that only cares about killing and obviously lacks the woodmanship to bring the bird closer.
I actually feel sorry that you are truly missing out on the most fun of turkey hunting, but it won 't matter for you until you change your attitude. Sorry for your loss. I am finished here.
It is almost painful that you'd even pretend to know what someone "only cares about" or what someones woodsmanship skills are. Are you serious? Is 50 the new 40? I say it is for the ones that have put in the time to get familiar and fine tune there equipment. Just like at one time 40 was the new 30? Maybe you guys that want to hijack someones post about energy and turn it into a "soapbox session" need to change your attitudes.
Quote from: USMC0331 on February 20, 2012, 10:24:27 PM
First, I would like to say hi to everyone! I just found this forum and look forward to learning and talking to everyone. In response to the question at hand. Longest shot I've taken on a turkey with the Nitro 4x5x7 was 42 yards. I generally want them a lot closer but this tom always flew to and from this field, anyways it took just 1 shot. I have killed 3 coyotes during turkey season at a little over 50 yards and the load went in and through the coyote. I have spent a lot of time and money testing this ammo in different shotguns and chokes. It is lethal past 50 yards. Hope this helps.
Welcome aboard Marine! You picked a humdinger of a post to introduce yourself. We really don't bicker all that much on here. Just when its about politics, ethics, etc. ::)
Clint
" you are correct. I should not impose personal limitations on someone that only cares about killing and obviously lacks the woodmanship to bring the bird closer.
I actually feel sorry that you are truly missing out on the most fun of turkey hunting, but it won 't matter for you until you change your attitude. Sorry for your loss. I am finished here."
[/quote]
The new self-appointed turkey whisperer slogan:
"flower children carry flowers. real turkey hunters carry sticks."
I'll print off a few t-shirts and send em to ya!
I'm not as presumptuous as you seem to be about other peoples' skills and woodsmanship. I guess in all your infinite wisdom you missed the lesson on what happens when you ASSume things....
Cheers!
Guys , be mindful of the many, many guests that view the site , we want to work towards together helping each other make clean decisive kills - easy with what you post up ,,,,there are folks out there armed with grandpa's shotgun ,an the only thing some people will catch onto is the yardage proclamation , and they will try to replicate it themselves out in the woods --
We hate to hear shotguns go off in the woods , bang ,bang , bang , bang , bang ...... no good for the turkey or turkey hunting
I caught a guy cramming 3.5 shells in a 3 inch chambered gun one time , get the drift , some folks are not to slick
I don't think anyone said anything about 70 yards. The question was can that load kill a turkey at 50 yards. The answer is yes as long as the shooter does his job. Meaning he knows his gun and he knows the situation he is in.
Quote from: joey46 on February 21, 2012, 04:54:01 PM
Better lock down this one also. I was just getting started. Yes 70 was mentioned and it is all about ethics.
Is your ethics standing that 70 yards is to far to shoot a bird, meaning its not allowed for a ture turkey hunter to shoot that far even if the gun/shell produces a killing pattern that far?
Or it is not ethical to shoot a bird a 70 yards if the gun/shell can't produce a killing pattern that far?
The second I understand completely but the first still confuses me, to each their own.
I would love to have a shotgun that would give killing patterns at 70. To all you self appointed ethical calling experts I have only one thing to say. I work a full time job to provide for a family and don't have a huge amount of time to hunt. This being said, I enjoy the hunt as much as anyone, but harvesting a bird is the ultimate goal and things don't always work out. To let him walk and wait for another day is fine if another day is guaranteed. No caller can bring every bird in close every time. If the gun and shell will do it a long shot does not make a person less of a hunter, it makes them a better one.
Quote from: joey46 on February 22, 2012, 07:05:32 AMAfter all the comments in this thread plus all in the thread that is now locked and has happily disappeared we finally have one that says it all. "harvesting a bird is the ultimate goal". That is NOT true for all hunters and hopefully never will be. If that is all it is for you then go ahead and shoot at 70 yards, or whatever range next years super load will claim to kill. It won't be long until some money hungry manufacturer will claim 100 yards and a company like Cabelas will foolishly run the ad touting this in their catalog. Then any nit wit with an unpatterned gun and $25.00 will go out and "miss" one that was well out of range and it will run off and die. If nothing else the buzzards will like all this long range shooting. They will clean up on the ones left in the woods. Three possible results for a long range marginal shot. Two of them are bad. Feel free to guess the three. They are pretty obvious.
Youre making the mistake of conflating us with "nitwits" (although we all have our moments).
No one is infallible. Shooting errors occur every year at point blank and longer ranges with patterned and unpatterned guns. That points to the human factor which cannot ever be removed from the equation.
Ultimately, guys with unproven, unpatterned guns and limited shooting skills will take them and shoot to 40 yards this and every season because conventional wisdom has established 40 yards as a community standard.
Longer shots by qualified shooters and guns will be taken and missed as well. All are ashame, unfortunate and inevitable.
I can't speak for all members here but will for myself. I travel all over the country to pursue these regal animals and I have the highest level of respect for them. Consequently,
I invest time and money into establishing and maximizing my guns' and my own capabilities in pursuit of the kill.
I also spend considerable time each day running calls and reading as much about turkeys physiologically and biologically to better understand how to be more effective killing turkeys each spring.
I am prepared and capable of calling them within 20 yards but prepared and capable to let the trigger break at 55 if hens or some other condition prevents a gobbler from closing the distance. I am there with the intentions of harvesting.
I do not care if I shoot at 25 yards or 55 yards. I have prepared for both situations and consummating that preparation with a kill is always gratifying. 6 of the longbeards I killed last year were inside 35 yards. Others were farther.
Many members of this site prepare to
similar rigorous and obsessive extents. Some to the point of insanity. They are not nitwits. They are not unknowledgeable, incapable, or unprepared and you sir, continue to show ignorance in your consideration of the audience to which you speak.
Your ethics might better be reserved for "nitwits" but you will find few of those contributing to this section. In fact, you may be falling into that category yourself with you continual defense of the 40 yard standard on all, regardless of skill, equipment and the shooter's ability to execute with such tools.
I digress.
My 2 cents.. The key is to know what your gun and chosen shell will do. In response to the original question, I have taken a bird in each of the past two seasons at 53 yds using a SBE II and nitro loads. The gun was set up by Rob Roberts of Gobbler Guns. Don't intend to sound boasting, but I would not have taken either bird if I had waited for a 40 yd shot. Both birds came across open fields and were in process of moving further away. I feel comfortable taking a shot at the 50 yd range if no alternative is available.
Quote from: joey46 on February 22, 2012, 07:05:32 AM
After all the comments in this thread plus all in the thread that is now locked and has happily disappeared we finally have one that says it all. "harvesting a bird is the ultimate goal". That is NOT true for all hunters and hopefully never will be.
Killing something when I go hunting is a goal. I like to be in the woods, it's nice and peaceful, relaxing and pretty. That said, I have a lot of time and money in equipment and I prefer to use it rather than pack it around.
When I go hunting I want stuff to die, if I don't want stuff to die I go hiking.
The goal of hunting is to harvest an animal that meets your standards for taking. If harvesting an animal is not a goal in hunting then you are not hunting, you might be a hunter, but not hunting.
Quote from: joey46 on February 23, 2012, 07:25:41 AM
...What is everyone's best guess before a 100 yard turkey load is advertised? My guess two years...
Don't worry. The price of tungsten and depleted uranium will take care of that. ;)
The comments that i have made with regard to shooting 50+ yards on this website are strictly from my own experience of hunting, guiding, filming and watching hundreds of turkeys either die in front of the gun or seeing the mistakes that are made. Hevi 13 and Nitros didnt come out last year..its been around a long time. In guiding we have folks pattern their guns before hunting and i have seen amazing patterns on paper at 60yds. I also witnessed the same folks try to duplicate that shot in the field with terrible results. I guess something that has been lost over time is what was taught to me. My dad taught me to never take a shot that wasnt a "for sure kill". Long shots produce more misses and cripples than letting the bird get within 40 yds. In 40 years of turkey hunting ive watched technology develop amazing things with shotguns/ chokes/ shells but ive also seen folks push the envelope in shooting long distances more and more with terrible results. Respect for the wild turkey has been eroded by ego and this "must kill" attitude. People mess up one turkey and then go to another one as if it didnt matter at all. There are few people that seem to be concerned about what we are teaching the next generation of turkey hunters but there are some of those special people still out there. I watched Michael Waddel tell a whole convention center and hundreds of kids sitting in front of him wide eyed that he would never shoot a turkey over 40yds. "Leave things better than you found them in the turkey woods" was what Tom Kelly told me one time. People that think turkey hunting is just about killing the turkey..were never taught what the sport is all about and most are so closed minded they will never learn. Turkey guns are one thing but if you want to learn what turkey hunting is about i would suggest reading some books from some of the folks that care about the future of this sport and the future of the wild turkey. If you dont think the quality of the turkey hunting has been negatively effected by this new wave of turkey hunters..you havent been hunting long enough to see it.
I gonna tell ya all a quick story and let's see if ya all pick up on it.
When my boy was in high school a bunch of his buddies came over so they could go out for the evening. While they were waiting in the living room for JJ to finish getting dressed. One of his friends was sitting at the couch and put his feet up on my coffee table. I don't have many rules in my house but one rule I do have is keep your feet off the furniture. I asked this friend to please remove his feet in my own way and left the room. I returned to the room to find that he decided that it was more important to rest his feet on my table. This is when I told him again to get his feet off the table and then I think the kid must of had a case of brain farts or something because he thought it would be wise to argue with me about the matter. He was immediately ejected from the house and told to never return, EVER.
The moral of the story is never go into another mans house and disrespect him by trying to bend the house rules as ultimately the man that owns the house can and will remove all guest he deems fit based on their behavior.
I do believe that Shannon has made it very clear. OG is not the place to discuss long or questionable shots as this is considered shooting and not hunting. And I see several people that feel it is OK to put their feet up on his coffee table while disrespecting his House Rules.
Very simple to understand isn't it.
Al
Thank you :boon:
Quote from: Longshanks on February 23, 2012, 10:59:01 AM
Thank you :boon:
You're Welcome..... But I think the person that truly needs to be thanked is Shannon since this is a private site and he allows us to hang out here for free to talk turkey hunting.
Al :icon_thumright:
In the past I have seen members get kicked off this site and wondered how it happened. I now know how it happens. Shooting is part of hunting. If harvesting the animal is not your objective then you are not hunting, you are observing. That is simply how it is. Some poeple want to preach ethics to others and condemn them for admitting that the harvest of the animal is the main objective. To those people who say that the harvest is not important I would chalenge them to get rid of their guns and take a camera instead. Photos will last a life time and if they are going to preach to me that it is all about the hunt and nothing about the harvest, than I think if they are not hipocrits they will accept this challenge. As for the story that Bird shared, in my case I did not realize that I was in a house that did not think shooting was part of hunting. If I am asked to leave that is fine because I want to be no part of what I percieve to be politicaly correct, say the right thing and forget what is real hunting. I have learned many things from this site, some good and some bad. My time here has been fun.
Long Distance Shooting Is Not part of turkey hunting and Does Not and Will No Longer be considered acceptable on this site.
Interesting discussion.
Quote from: bird on February 23, 2012, 01:51:42 PM
Quote from: Longshanks on February 23, 2012, 10:59:01 AM
Thank you :boon:
You're Welcome..... But I think the person that truly needs to be thanked is Shannon since this is a private site and he allows us to hang out here for free to talk turkey hunting.
Al :icon_thumright:
Thanks to Shannon as well, have allot of respect for guys putting your foot down about all this long range shooting promotion. :thanks:
I disagree Mr. Bird, longer shots are very much a part of many members hunts. Maybe not every time, but many of us have taken a long shot or two. My entire point in this discussion is that all of those who try to claim that the harvest of a turkey is not the ultimate goal of turkey HUNTING are full of themselves. I really enjoy my time in the turkey woods as much as the next person. However, in my final thought, if harvesting a bird is or was not the ultimate goal then why buy a tag?
You can disagree all you want but the premise of this whole situation is that long shots and or questionable shots will no longer be acceptable on this site.
Coyotetpr, I believe Mr Bird is not arguing your point as to what the hunt is about. He is merely stating that conversations about shots over 40 yards (with buffer as discussed in the sticky about long shots) will no longer be accepted.
Quote from: LaBiologist on February 23, 2012, 10:45:42 PM
Coyotetpr, I believe Mr Bird is not arguing your point as to what the hunt is about. He is merely stating that conversations about shots over 40 yards (with buffer as discussed in the sticky about long shots) will no longer be accepted.
You sir are absolutely correct. :icon_thumright:
This is not pointed to anyone , rather a broad statement to a group as a whole
You have all seen me say ,many times "what you do in the turkey woods is your business" that's damn right , but when it is posted up on a site like this that gets thousands of turkey hunters a day browsing the site , then what you post becomes public , you better believe that people rarely post up how many times the shot at a gobbler at 69 yards and he got away , crippled , or missed - and regrettably we are just human -we make mistakes - and it happens
I've watched this issue more closely than many of you can possibly realize for years now - I've tried to remain neutral and unbiased , but Its simply gone way to far this time to ignore -If some people want me to spell out the the hard reality of the matter , here it is --- Publicly talking or promoting Taking long shots at real gobblers in the woods, no matter what you are using is a low brow, and a taboo subject - If someone is engaged in that activity , keep it to yourself we don't want to hear or see it here anymore - post up some 40 yard patterns , talk about a built in "fudge factor " in case something goes wrong and if you want use your imagination of what the effectiveness is beyond that it shouldn't be hard to figure out how well it will work
People are focusing too much effort into shooting equipment and simply just ignoring turkey calling and being a good woodsman