I'm looking at getting a dedicated turkey shotgun. Been using my 12ga 870 w/ 28" barrel for years. Killed plenty with it, but its 4' long and weighs 8 lbs! I bust a lot of brush and that thing gets hung up on everything.
I'm looking at buying a mossberg 500 turkey- the cost of the 12ga or 20 ga is essentially the same. I want to look at overall cost of ownership, so given the cost of the gun is a wash regardless of the gauge, it would come down to shell cost. To me, if I did the 20 gauge I would do TSS for sure. If I do the 12 ga, I would lean towards LB XR's- I've been shooting those for years with no issues. If a 12ga performance with LB XR's is comparable to 20ga w/ TSS I would go with the 12ga and have my annual shell cost be around $13($2.50/rd,assume take 5 shots a year) vs 20 ga TSS annual cost would be $65-70 depending on the TSS load. Using my math above, my 5 year ammo cost is $62.50 w/ LB XR v $325 w 20ga TSS. Thats a large savings obviously.
I know there is the added benefit of the 20ga being lighter then the 12ga, but I'm not necessarily worried about saving 1lb. Anyway, I've watched plenty of YT patterning videos for both gauges- LB XR's out of a 12 w/ proper choke hold a pretty nice pattern to at least 50yds. Not the pellet count you would get from 20ga TSS, but some of that is due to there being less pellets in 5's vs 9's.
I know guys will say if you are worried about cost of shells, shouldnt be out there, save it somewhere else, etc, etc. What I know is if I can buy one box of shells every two years for $25, or a box every year for $65, I would prefer the former.
Is there anything I'm not considering-additional benefits to the 20ga? There is so much hype and talk about everyone seemingly moving to 20ga w/ TSS that its hard not to just jump on that train.
If its just about money the 12 is definitely the way to go. The only advantage of the 20 is the weight and if that's not your issue then the 12 with LB's is the way to go.
The weight savings for the 20gauge is only 4oz in the case of the Mossberg 500. 6lbs 12oz vs 7lbs for 12ga.
Its not solely about the money, I could be talked into the 20 and TSS if there are distinct advantages in kill effectiveness, however in my research so far I'm not seeing that it would make much difference inside of 60 yards. Now if I'm shooting LB XR's out of the 20gauge, that would be a disadvantage over the 12ga clearly.
I guess if I want to add another gauge to the mix could consider a .410 w/ TSS. Those average closer to $8.60 a round, so around $215 for five years. The gun cost is still roughly the same however,it is a 12oz wt savings over the 12ga which IMO still isnt much.
I think you'd have a hard time beating your 870. I mean if 12 ounces weight isn't much how can 16 be that much?
That steel receiver is always going to balance the gun better than aluminum can.
My 870 with 28 inch bbl came in at 7 lbs 13 ounces
Two years ago, I switched from my Remington 870 Turkey Magnum to a Beretta A300 KO Turkey. Don't get me wrong, the 870 was and still is a flat out turkey killer. I made the switch because we were hunting some very steep, hilly country where we would often walk about 8 miles a day. Cutting back on vest contents, chair and gun weight all added up to make humping that distance more fun. The 20g handles so much easier that I have never gone back to the 12. With TSS, I cannot say I lost any distance on what I feel is a comfortable kill shot. The kick is less but do you really feel it with that one shot. You will notice it more sighting in your gun. Choke and load availability is roughly equal. Frankly, it is hard to put into words but the 20g is just a pleasure to carry and shoot compared to my 870 and I don't really see any downside. I have never compared the 2 with any other type of shot so I can't help you there.
I shoot an 870 until its time to leave the flat lands of Florida for more hilly country then I switch to my 20 gauge.
Quote from: Ihuntoldschool on April 28, 2025, 12:44:08 PMI think you'd have a hard time beating your 870. I mean if 12 ounces weight isn't much how can 16 be that much?
That steel receiver is always going to balance the gun better than aluminum can.
My 870 with 28 inch bbl came in at 7 lbs 13 ounces
Ya my 870 express with 28" barrel is just under 8lbs on a scale w/ red dot. I dont mind the weight so much, its that its 50" long!!! The thing hangs up on everything when I'm going thru the thick stuff. I had to belly crawl for a ways the other day and you really need to pay attention to get that thing navigated thru the underbrush. That is my main reason for wanting a new gun- I'm getting something with a 20-22" barrel, just not sure on the gauge yet.
I dont worry about the kick with one versus the other, like someone said, only time you notice is sighting it in. I can handle that once a year.
Personally I'm not a Moosberg fan. I know there's been an absolute ton of critters killed with them. The best man in my wedding is an absolute deer killer with his 500 slug gun. Obviously they're good guns I'm just not a fan.
It seems as though overall ownership cost is a focal point for the OP. If that's what I was looking at I'd keep running the 870 (I have a 12 and a 20 turkey rigs FWIW) and either find a turkey barrel or send the 28" one to Steve Rose for a cut and rethread.
Just throwing that out there for consideration.
You can get a good pattern with either, especially with TSS.
I haven't shot a 12 gauge in several years now, turkey or duck guns.
The advantages include lighter gun (usually), less recoil, cheaper ammo (assuming same brand and shot size).
Thats a interesting idea. I've looked everywhere for a 20" threaded barrel for the 870 that will take a turkey choke, I've never found one. Sending it in to get cut/threaded is also interesting....wonder how much that runs typically.
I dont have any brand alliance, I referenced the Mossberg 500 because they have so many turkey specific setups to choose from. I'd be open to any brand provided it has a short barrel. I am intrigued by the Maverick 88 bantam 20gauge that is 39" long and just over 5lbs(1lb savings isnt that big of deal, 3lbs I might be able to tell). $225 at my Walmart too. But then I would want to go the TSS route
Quote from: tbowers on April 28, 2025, 01:50:22 PMQuote from: Ihuntoldschool on April 28, 2025, 12:44:08 PMI think you'd have a hard time beating your 870. I mean if 12 ounces weight isn't much how can 16 be that much?
That steel receiver is always going to balance the gun better than aluminum can.
My 870 with 28 inch bbl came in at 7 lbs 13 ounces
Ya my 870 express with 28" barrel is just under 8lbs on a scale w/ red dot. I dont mind the weight so much, its that its 50" long!!! The thing hangs up on everything when I'm going thru the thick stuff. I had to belly crawl for a ways the other day and you really need to pay attention to get that thing navigated thru the underbrush. That is my main reason for wanting a new gun- I'm getting something with a 20-22" barrel, just not sure on the gauge yet.
I dont worry about the kick with one versus the other, like someone said, only time you notice is sighting it in. I can handle that once a year.
You can always buy a shorter barrel for your 870.
I'm all ears if you know where I can get a 20" barrel for my 870. I've looked for years. I've found ones but they are improved cylinder barrels. maybe that is the only option and then have it threaded?
Quote from: tbowers on April 28, 2025, 02:52:10 PMI'm all ears if you know where I can get a 20" barrel for my 870. I've looked for years. I've found ones but they are improved cylinder barrels. maybe that is the only option and then have it threaded?
I guess I should state I would preferably want a ribbed barrel as that is where I prefer to mount my red dot w/ the meadow creek. There are a ton of 18.5" 870 barrels out there but none that are ribbed that I have seen.
Quote from: mikejd on April 28, 2025, 10:21:43 AMIf its just about money the 12 is definitely the way to go. The only advantage of the 20 is the weight and if that's not your issue then the 12 with LB's is the way to go.
Ihave both 12ga use lead. 20 ga I use tss I can carry more comfortably but loads are more expensive. Also when the communist state of NY goes no lead I'm ready.
Quote from: tbowers on April 28, 2025, 02:52:10 PMI'm all ears if you know where I can get a 20" barrel for my 870. I've looked for years. I've found ones but they are improved cylinder barrels. maybe that is the only option and then have it threaded?
They make a 21inch in vent rib. I have one.
Quote from: CALLM2U on April 28, 2025, 03:56:40 PMQuote from: tbowers on April 28, 2025, 02:52:10 PMI'm all ears if you know where I can get a 20" barrel for my 870. I've looked for years. I've found ones but they are improved cylinder barrels. maybe that is the only option and then have it threaded?
They make a 21inch in vent rib. I have one.
Id take a link to it. That said, if a new barrel is $250, I'll probably just buy that Maverick Bantam in 20 gauge for the same price instead and start dropping $$ on TSS!
Quote from: tbowers on April 28, 2025, 02:06:24 PMThats a interesting idea. I've looked everywhere for a 20" threaded barrel for the 870 that will take a turkey choke, I've never found one. Sending it in to get cut/threaded is also interesting....wonder how much that runs typically.
I dont have any brand alliance, I referenced the Mossberg 500 because they have so many turkey specific setups to choose from. I'd be open to any brand provided it has a short barrel. I am intrigued by the Maverick 88 bantam 20gauge that is 39" long and just over 5lbs(1lb savings isnt that big of deal, 3lbs I might be able to tell). $225 at my Walmart too. But then I would want to go the TSS route
Get in touch with Rose Action Sports or Sumtoy Customs.
I had RAS cut and thread a 20 gauge 870 barrel last year and it was in the $150.00 ballpark.
Food for thought: I have a fairly new dedicated Turkey 12g. Shoot LBXRs myself and at my ranges they more than do the job. My consideration of 12 vs 20 is the issue of recoil. While not particularly sensitive if I can cut recoil while maintaining pattern density and 40ish yards killing range, that is very attractive to me. Currently experimenting with 2 3/4 TSS loads in my 12 for that reason. Properly set up my opinion is the 20(or 28?) with #9 TSS will match and probably eclipse patterns achieved with lead 12s. If they don't, then I will keep shooting lead
Look it,s like this those turkeys dont know if you shot them with lead or tss shot. 3 IN THE HEAD HE,S DEAD. You dont need 150 pellets to kill a turkey.
In my opinion it all has to do with difference in recoil of the sub-gauge guns and what your welling to spend in chasing and shooting to kill that gobbler with cost of TSS or just sticking with the lead and 12 ga. loads. As I have gotten older I sure do like the sub gauge less recoil guns with TSS ... AS long as my sub gauge guns keep performing better than 12 ga lead I will keep using my sub gauge guns ...IMO
Good thoughts here. I get the recoil issue- patterning sucks with a 12ga. When shooting at a bird its a non issue, I've never felt that recoil!
To me, TSS is really only needed in sub gauges. LB XR will kill in a 12ga pretty reliably out to 50, further with the right choke. I'll continue to weigh my options if it makes sense to get a shorter barrel for my 870, buy a different 12ga and continue to shoot lead or buy a cheap/compact 20ga and switch to TSS.
To have my barrel cut and threaded at 20" is $165. If I'm only thinking $$, that would be the cheapest option. The downside is I do use my 870 for waterfowl/clays from time to time, so the barrel cutting would prevent that(at least doing effectively).
I could justify I could 'save' the additional money for TSS each year somewhere else. In theory at 5 shots a year, its about an additional $50 a year to shoot TSS 20 gauge v 12g LB XR. Adds up over time I suppose but not the end of the world for something I'm passionate about. Now I just need to decide what to do...
Quote from: mountainhunter1 on April 29, 2025, 09:39:15 AMIf it is solely about gun length, go on Ebay and watch for a Factory take off 21" vent rib Remington barrel. They are not on there every week, but if you watch for about a month or two, they do show up. They usually cost around 350 ish when they do. But you can turn around and sell your 28" barrel for around 175-225 and not be out of that much cash.
Now, as far as a 500, you have to look at what all they have to offer and not just their full sized 500 line up. If a man is going to go with a M500, why would you not get the Super Bantam which is around 40-41 inches and weighs just 5.25 pounds? They make that gun in a 20 gauge and it is drilled and tapped for sights and has sling studs and also a Chromed lined barrel. They are also factory dipped in MO. It is a sweet deal for around 470 dollars before tax. Talk about a joy to carry in the woods and the two we have do not kick much at all.
If you don't want to mess with Ebay, You can also buy a new 870 Remington Fieldmaster in 12 gauge with a 21" barrel for around 500 give or take before tax. They also make the same gun with 21" barrel in a 20 gauge which weighs right at 6 pounds and is one of my favorite guns with that solid steel receiver. Remington is back making a solid gun again as they are under new ownership.
Now don't miss this last thought if you are leaning towards shooting the 12 with just a shorter barrel. Salt Creek has a new load out called the Cold Turkey which is a blend of TSS 9 and lead 5's, which will outshoot the longbeards and they cost around 27 for five. Great compromise if cost of shells is your main concern. It has the speed of a 12, but the design of the load will make it shoot more like a 20 recoil wise. If you go that route, you will need a .665 choke as that is what that load generally likes. Great concept- and I think more companies will soon join in on the mixed lead/TSS loads to help with those who are cost conscious and the eventual likelihood of TSS becoming more harder to get out of the earth.
Agree on the M500- if I went 20 gauge I would consider the Maverick 88 Bantam- its specs are near identical to the 500 Bantam(same wt and overall length), but doesnt come in full camo, and the safety position is different. But its $250 vs $500. I could buy the MO wrap for $40 and camo it. The Fieldmaster w/ 21" barrel looks intriguing too, but thats around $500 as well. Mossberg has aluminum receiver but they still have a good reputation for turkey.
That is really interesting about that new ammo, I havent heard of that.
I'll have to continue to ponder this!
Since you got a 12 you use for other things, I think I'd buy a 20. Then you have a choice of what you want to carry on any particular day. I have 2 or 3 extra turkey guns. Tss and short barrels. 12 and 20. My go to most of the time is a Remington 1100 12 gauge with 30 inch full choke. Rather than spending money to cut yours down, I'd just add a 20 to your arsenal.
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If you're shooting 40 yards and under the 12ga with lead will do everything you need it to do. The TSS comes into play with the sub gauges (20, 410 etc). If I was to switch back to the 12 I would mostly certainly just shoot lead or maybe hevi shot. JMO But TSS is not needed in a 12 or 10.
Probably does make sense to get another gun....guy always needs another gun lol. If I got the Maverick, even with a wrap, new choke and sling would be around $400 total. 5.25 lbs and 39" long is real appealing to me. I dont know that I can justify spending double for just the gun to get the 870 20 ga compact or the 500 Bantam.
I switched from 12 to 20 a few years ago and have not looked back. I decked out a Franchi affinity to my liking and it's just barely over 6 lbs and it's a big difference from my former 870.
If you're looking at the 500s, I'd recommend the bantam version of the 500 turkey. It's shorter and lighter. My buddy just got one and it's under 6 lbs and carries great since the barrel is shorter than your head will slinged.
Don't worry about cost of 12 vs 20. You're not burning up boxes of boxes of ammo in a turkey gun. Sure TSS is expensive but unless you're traveling to hunt 2
Boxes after you sight in is gonna last a while.
Quote from: mdmitchell on April 29, 2025, 02:33:15 PMI switched from 12 to 20 a few years ago and have not looked back. I decked out a Franchi affinity to my liking and it's just barely over 6 lbs and it's a big difference from my former 870.
If you're looking at the 500s, I'd recommend the bantam version of the 500 turkey. It's shorter and lighter. My buddy just got one and it's under 6 lbs and carries great since the barrel is shorter than your head will slinged.
Don't worry about cost of 12 vs 20. You're not burning up boxes of boxes of ammo in a turkey gun. Sure TSS is expensive but unless you're traveling to hunt 2
Boxes after you sight in is gonna last a while.
Right, check out my couple posts above. I'm considering the Maverick 88 Bantam vs the 500 Bantam as the specs are nearly identical and the 88 is half the cost. The 88 isnt drilled and tapped but I use a rib mount for my red dot anyway.
I would typically go thru a box of TSS each year. So in the end going from LB XR to TSS would be about an extra 50 bucks a year, not that big of a deal in the end
When I was hunting with my 20 gauge that I used for grouse and quail, I put a turkey choke on it and I shot Long Beard XR 20 gauge shells out to 40 yards and did fine with it.
Don't discount the Longbeard xr in 20g either, I was killing turkeys with those, hevi 13's and federal #7s before tss was the craze. Inside of 40 yards i never noticed the difference in a 20 and 12
TSS would never cross my mind in a 12 and I would have to use up a lot of shells before I bought any tss 20g
After carrying around a single shot 410 for a couple seasons everything else felt like a cinder block
Quote from: darron on April 29, 2025, 01:54:07 PMIf you're shooting 40 yards and under the 12ga with lead will do everything you need it to do. The TSS comes into play with the sub gauges (20, 410 etc). If I was to switch back to the 12 I would mostly certainly just shoot lead or maybe hevi shot. JMO But TSS is not needed in a 12 or 10.
My thought was incomplete- sorry. I agree- My personal opinion is that at what I believe to be real Turkey hunting range ( not spray n pray) the lead 12s are more than enough. However, as I recently purchased a new gun, am on a budget, instead of buying a new firearm ( I wish), I am experimenting with a 2 3/4 load that shoots a 20g wt load of tss. This is both to reduce recoil and save some coin, lol
Quote from: Dougas on April 29, 2025, 09:08:16 PMWhen I was hunting with my 20 gauge that I used for grouse and quail, I put a turkey choke on it and I shot Long Beard XR 20 gauge shells out to 40 yards and did fine with it.
I've shot LB XR's out of my daughters 20ga for a few years. Maybe its the choke, but it doesnt do well past 25 yards. I missed a bird with it last week at about 30yds. Who knows if it was me, the load or something else but it didnt give me a ton of confidence in the Longbeards out of it. Propobably just need to try a different choke in it. I think its a cheap TruGlo GobbleStopper
i had sumtoy cut down my 870SM to 18.5" from 28" he includes a choke of choice with his service. i did that solely for the purpose of having a more compact gun to handle.
Quote from: Yelpster on April 30, 2025, 11:11:22 AMi had sumtoy cut down my 870SM to 18.5" from 28" he includes a choke of choice with his service. i did that solely for the purpose of having a more compact gun to handle.
how much. Rose will do it for 165 w/ shipping.
Quote from: tbowers on April 30, 2025, 12:27:09 PMQuote from: Yelpster on April 30, 2025, 11:11:22 AMi had sumtoy cut down my 870SM to 18.5" from 28" he includes a choke of choice with his service. i did that solely for the purpose of having a more compact gun to handle.
how much. Rose will do it for 165 w/ shipping.
i think 150 with choke of choice
Buy a cheap single shot 20 or even 12ga if you want to keep shooting Longbeard loads, 20ga Longbeard are not impressive most of the time.
I have zero interest in any gun over 6lbs, carry a light gun one day and you will see the light.
I think Yildiz or someone has a really light 12ga. Single shot or SXS.
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I have been considering a 20g, mostly due to weight and my style of running and gunning. After age 50 my long 12g pump with pistol grip started to be pretty heavy on my shoulder after a long day. I made a spreadsheet so I could sort by various factors, including weight and length. Due to weight the Mossberg 500 was a ways down my list. Here are some others you may consider - Mossberg SA-20 Turkey, Benelli M2 Turkey, Mossberg SA-20 Tactical Turkey, Winchester SXP NWTF Turkey.