For all those that are using Apex 20 ga. Ammo from Apex have you seen a difference in your patterns lately, I been using there ammo since 2020 #9 and # 7/9 blends and had great success out of my Remington 870 until the last few boxes since last year's 2024 shells. I ordered another few new boxes this year to test them out and I'm seeing a different pattern again all the shells are ordered directly from their factory. I had a few shells from prior years and they patterned completely different and better than the newer shellsover the last 2 years purchased. Just curious if anyone else has noticed a change.
Not really sure, Is the 7/9 blend allowed in Nj?
A few forums are mentioning some fail to eject problems with their newer .410. Opinion is that they may have changed some basic component. Worth keeping an eye on.
The .410 is an entirely different hull than it used to be. Brighter red, shorter brass, and a slightly smaller diameter.
My older shells failed to eject one time on a 301 .410. I thought the smaller diameter might help with that.
When I was zeroing my red dot on my Mossberg .410, I had a box of the Apex Ninja #9 that seemed to vary patterns from shell to shell. I was using a lead sled so I know it was not me. Most times, it takes a couple of shots to be happy. It took me 10 shots to feel really comfortable because I had to shoot the same shot over a couple of times due to pattern differences. I have never had that experience in the past.
Tested some 2024 year apex 9's this spring. Best pattern numbers ever out of my sa 20. Had a new choke in my CVA so not a good comparison.
I sure hope not, just bought a box today! Every time I get in truck to leave the store my Dad's voice pops in my head " you just paid $54 for 5 Turkey shells!"
Plan to confirm POI/POA tomorrow if not raining.
IMO - $$ is why so few will really pattern TSS properly , if at all, especially when trying to zero a red dot or similar sight.
I have used Apex for years in both my .410 and 12ga. Never failed but I did have a first ever fail to eject with it in my .410. Then a second two shots later. Both at the range. Be watching these Apex discussions closely. I have a box of Ninja .410 loaded on 8/5/2024. I'll shoot half on the range before next season. Hear good things about both Verdict and Foxtrot in .410. One more fail to eject and I may give them a try. As for the 12 ga that is no problem as it likes lead and at 40 yards in works great. I doubt if I ever buy TSS for the 12 again. TSS, with shipping and tax, are getting close to $12 per shell. I'll do that if necessary for the .410 but not the 12. Love carrying and shooting the .410 but after the fail to ejects went back to the 12 for this FL season. To add the Apex patterns very well in both guns.
Exactly Joey I didn't expect to get a lot of responses on this post because of that factor cost most fokes will dial in a pattern and think everything is fine year after year, but I wanted to share my experience with what's been happening lately with checking my setup before I do any hunting. I travel to several states and don't have time on the road to check if thing is just ok. Let us know Sunglazer your experience.
I tested my 20 before this spring with March 2024 and it shot low. Still a great pattern, just low. So I zeroed it back in.
I had wondered why. I just assumed it was my Holosun red dot. But maybe not
Dug through my closet and found some older Apex .410. Comparing to the new box the brass is significantly different. New stuff much shorter.
I always zero in a new sight and check zero of an old sight with bird shot first. If it is close, I finish it out with my turkey loads shooting out to 50 yards. I start at 20 yards and then 30 and then 40 and lastly 50 yards. I need to know what the pattern looks like at all of those ranges.
If I can't afford to do that then I can't afford a license and tag and have no business being out in the woods turkey hunting. The financial investment of knowing your gun is zeroed and patterned is as important or more so, as the rest of the financial investments in turkey hunting.
Just some food for thought. The way you store ammo matters. I know a guy that does competition shotgun shoots. He has an easy 3 grand in his gun. He was complaining to me about slight shifts in impact from shot to shot, and it was enough to keep him out of the money. Per their rules, they have to shoot the ammo supplied to them at the shoot. I told him to take his shells from now on time and tap the base on the table a few times before he loaded up. He is winning money now. Storing shells on their sides will have a negative effect. Over time, the buffer and pellets will settle on the bottom side.
Finally had good weather and my day off coincide with an opportunity to verify POA with POI today. New box of Apex 20ga. 1 5/8 #9 shot with new graphics on box but same part/model number I had last season - GT20.
WOW! Best pattern I've had yet with my silver eagle O/U, Pinhoti.585 Trulock choke. Ready for my 1st season to start next week. Can't figure out how to share the pic or I would.
This load is most definitely what I'll be hunting this season.
Quote from: TrackeySauresRex on March 31, 2025, 06:05:07 PMNot really sure, Is the 7/9 blend allowed in Nj?
No but I believe they're waiting in game code changes to allow 9 tss. They initially tested 410s and tss down to size 9 before covid.
Quote from: Happy on April 02, 2025, 08:53:05 PMJust some food for thought. The way you store ammo matters. I know a guy that does competition shotgun shoots. He has an easy 3 grand in his gun. He was complaining to me about slight shifts in impact from shot to shot, and it was enough to keep him out of the money. Per their rules, they have to shoot the ammo supplied to them at the shoot. I told him to take his shells from now on time and tap the base on the table a few times before he loaded up. He is winning money now. Storing shells on their sides will have a negative effect. Over time, the buffer and pellets will settle on the bottom side.
I have now turned my boxes of apex so they aren't sideways. Not sure if this will help but I don't see how it can hurt so I did it. Thank you.
After the 2021 season I bought a box of every brand TSS I could and patterned them all thru several chokes
Found the magic combo of one brand that consistently put 350+ in the 10". But of course post covid ammo shortage and it was out of stock
Well it came back in stock before the 2022 season and I bought 10 boxes. Did not pattern even close to the same. So had to start over finding a choke that shot that load well in my gun
I've still never gotten back to the patterns I was getting from the 2021 shells. Just to make sure I wasn't crazy I shot my last two of the 2021 shells last spring thru the gun/choke that did beat with them. And for sure just like I remembered, 350+ in the 10"
Long winded way of saying if you find something that shoots to your liking, buy a bunch of the same batch. Components can be identical but a small variation on powder or wad or crimp that the manufacturer may or may not know about can change a lot
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I wish I had bought a lifetime supply of the 2007 run of old white Hevi 13 in #6 shot. Nothing patterned more consistent in my 12 ga than that shell. Of course now to buy a bunch of new TSS requires a bank loan. My 12 is going back on a lead diet for it's remaining days.
Mrs Z questioned why it took so long to load up a few TSS as opposed to my trap loads. Answer is simple, trap shooting is a volume sport, killing turkeys cleanly is a consistent result sport. My wording sux but you get the idea. I measure my powder and shot so they are identical or at .001+ or -. We shoot our guns a lot and usually it in not a painful experience to get back to zero. On the dedicated turkey guns, no removing or changing anythin, it is usually 3 shots and done. On my SBE 28 it can be a little longer due to the removal of the green dot so I can shoot ducks. Good luck and shoot a lot, Z
This thread makes me feel better about buying a lifetime of Apex 20 gauge TSS in 2022 and 2023. If there is a problem I hope they get things figured out.
Quote from: joey46 on April 16, 2025, 02:21:03 AMI wish I had bought a lifetime supply of the 2007 run of old white Hevi 13 in #6 shot. Nothing patterned more consistent in my 12 ga than that shell. Of course now to buy a bunch of new TSS requires a bank loan. My 12 is going back on a lead diet for it's remaining days.
You are right about that!!! Those shells were great. This conversation is exactly why I started loading my own. I loaded 12 pounds of TSS at the beginning of the year. A few 12 gauge 2 3/4 and a pile of 20s, 1 5/8 of 9s. Which reminds me I have to get a order in for more TSS.
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I shot some of the old ninja apex .410 in the dark red hull, great patterns. bought some new ninja apex with the plain red hulls and they shoot good as well. I will say that I had broken my red dot sight on a granite boulder and so a couple of the old shells and a few of the new were sighting in a new red dot. I would be super leery about shooting shells from a new/different lot even if the manufacturer and specs are the same, without re-patterning the gun. I try to buy a few boxes at a time and confirm the lot # is the same. Yes it is pricey but you don't want to shoot a few shells patterning, then shoot a bird, coyote, whatever and then need a new box which will require confirming again. I also sight in using standard target loads, (#8 or 9 lead) to get close then move on to the tss. Then shoot patterns at 20 and 40 yards see how it looks. Try to use a big patterning paper also, probably 3'x 3', paint a bright dot on the paper so you can ensure aim. Fire away and try to get it right without spending a fortune!
JT
This is why I load my own tss, everything is the same yr over yr. I havent needed to make a single click adj on my red dot in yrs. Its really easy & you dont need alot of equipment. Mike
Quote from: Ol Timer on March 31, 2025, 05:03:38 PMI had a few shells from prior years and they patterned completely different and better than the newer shellsover the last 2 years purchased. Just curious if anyone else has noticed a change.
When I switched from Longbeards, I went to Apex Small Town Blend. After being very satisfied with the results after switching to an Indian Creek choke, I ordered several more boxes.
Then they were always out of stock, so once they were available again, I ordered several boxes. I only shoot one shot before the season to make sure the sight is still true, and then I use it on turkeys.
So far, I haven't noticed a difference in point of impact in either my 12 or 20, but then again I am still shooting the originals I bought initially. When I restocked, they were newer shells in a redesigned box. I'll let you know if they change the POI when I get to the newer ammo, but it might not be until next year or the year after. :lol:
Just out of curiosity, did you ever contact Apex about the issue? Every box of Apex has the date of loading and the person who loaded it. I wonder if the batch you got was a change in the formula or sloppiness on the part of the loader? I'm certain that Apex would appreciate hearing from you to find out for themselves.
Quote from: Happy on April 02, 2025, 08:53:05 PMStoring shells on their sides will have a negative effect. Over time, the buffer and pellets will settle on the bottom side.
Makes sense. I just switched all my turkey loads to up and down storage.
Thanks!! :icon_thumright:
Unpolished shot is what I've been told.
Quote from: RutnNStrutn on May 15, 2025, 06:20:53 PMQuote from: Ol Timer on March 31, 2025, 05:03:38 PMI had a few shells from prior years and they patterned completely different and better than the newer shellsover the last 2 years purchased. Just curious if anyone else has noticed a change.
When I switched from Longbeards, I went to Apex Small Town Blend. After being very satisfied with the results after switching to an Indian Creek choke, I ordered several more boxes.
Then they were always out of stock, so once they were available again, I ordered several boxes. I only shoot one shot before the season to make sure the sight is still true, and then I use it on turkeys.
So far, I haven't noticed a difference in point of impact in either my 12 or 20, but then again I am still shooting the originals I bought initially. When I restocked, they were newer shells in a redesigned box. I'll let you know if they change the POI when I get to the newer ammo, but it might not be until next year or the year after. :lol:
Just out of curiosity, did you ever contact Apex about the issue? Every box of Apex has the date of loading and the person who loaded it. I wonder if the batch you got was a change in the formula or sloppiness on the part of the loader? I'm certain that Apex would appreciate hearing from you to find out for themselves.
The new box's don't have a date or any signage on the lid. Also I checked the weight on a digital scale and not one shell was the same weight!! I moved on to Rocky Ridge ammo.
Quote from: Happy on April 02, 2025, 08:53:05 PMJust some food for thought. The way you store ammo matters. I know a guy that does competition shotgun shoots. He has an easy 3 grand in his gun. He was complaining to me about slight shifts in impact from shot to shot, and it was enough to keep him out of the money. Per their rules, they have to shoot the ammo supplied to them at the shoot. I told him to take his shells from now on time and tap the base on the table a few times before he loaded up. He is winning money now. Storing shells on their sides will have a negative effect. Over time, the buffer and pellets will settle on the bottom side.
If you store it on the brass would it not do the same thing just at bottom of the shot column, or if you store it with the crimp down at the top of the shot column?
Quote from: Ol Timer on May 21, 2025, 05:11:40 PMThe new box's don't have a date or any signage on the lid. Also I checked the weight on a digital scale and not one shell was the same weight!! I moved on to Rocky Ridge ammo.
Hmmm. I bought several boxes this last off season, and all of them had the name of the loader and date loaded. Odd that yours didn't. I have never had any issues with Apex ammo..... yet.
I do wish I had the patience to load my own, but I don't and likely never will. :lol: