Hi all....don't really post. Mostly lurk/read.
Background on this... at 49 years old, for the last 10 years or so I've really stopped paying attention to what is new on the market for most hunting gear, including shotguns. I'm a turkey hunter, but I haven't gone nearly as far down the rabbit hole on shotguns as many do. Call it too many hobbies, too little free time, etc but I find myself now needing to replace my turkey gun and need some suggestions.
There's nothing wrong with the 40 year old 870 I've used for turkeys, except the recoil of the 2oz Apex Ninja loads is VERY brisk, and I was recently put on blood thinners after having some blood clots that made it to my lungs. Since blood thinners make it easier for me to bruise, and since bruising is something the doctors warned me to really avoid, that 870 is not really not a useable setup for me anymore.
What I'm looking for is not "cream puff" recoil. I just need it dialed down from the 870. A friend of mine described his 870 12ga vs an autoloader 20ga with turkey loads as "the 20ga is like a deer rifle, where the 870 is like a cannon going off". I would agree on the 870 comparison. If a 20ga is like a deer rifle, I should be just fine with that. My dad has been on the same med as I am for about 20 years and he agreed that level of recoil wouldn't be a problem... I don't need minimal recoil, I just can't have crazy recoil.
So at the worst time of the year to do this, I'm looking for a new turkey gun. I really have no clue what my options are.
I was looking at the Mossberg SA-20 and -28, leaning toward the 20. Doing some reading here and other places, it seems it's a coin toss when you buy one. Some people love them, but for every review that's glowing, there's another that had aftermarket chokes not fit properly, failure to feed from the mag tube with turkey loads, difficulty finding a choke/load combo that patterns well, etc.
Since this isn't a planned purchase, I don't want to throw buckets of cash at this, but I also don't see that 870 as a realistic option. I could go to 1oz 12ga loads, and that might be my answer this season, but I hate to have 410 performance with the weight and bulk of a 12ga. I can see it as a temporary solution but not a permanent one.
So... just looking for ideas on guns worth a look. Appreciate any info anyone is able/willing to share!
That lightest recoiling shotgun will be gas operated. It bleeds gas off to work the action and lessons the recoil. A shotgun on this heavier side will help also.
In addition to the SA-20, I was also looking at the Beretta A300. Reviews seem to be more positive on the Beretta, and the Kick Off sounds appealing, although I don't know first hand how effective it is or isn't.
Retay gordion 20 gauge. Light weight, soft kicking, shoots straight off the bead and factory choke is excellent
I think a 20 ga with 3 inch TSS will be your huckleberry. Guns a personal choice. Personally I don't want to spend money on Turkish made shotguns like the SA series but I can't say I've ever used them.
I'd splurge a bit and get into a Franchi affinity, Winchester sx4, or the beretta a300. The Franchi is an inertia driven so you won't get quite the recoil reduction like you would from a gas gun like the sx4 or the a300 but they have a proven track record of reliability for a semi auto. It's my personal choice of gun.
So... here's a twist I forgot to mention.
I own a Benelli Montefeltro 20ga. I have no idea what model... I bought it locally used from the owner directly. It's blued with walnut stocks. The prior owner had a sold to me with the gun a Carlson's 572 Hevi13 choke, which by some miracle I was able to still find in my gun stuff (I bought this gun well over 10 years ago).
My concerns here are-
1- There's nearly no pad on this gun. For the low brass 6's and 7's I used in it to shoot birds at a hunting preserve, no biggie. It won't be ok for turkey loads. I'm not seeing much for prefit recoil pads, but I'm wide open to any suggestions. Even a slip on would probably be just fine, but it needs something to cushion it on the back end.
2- Inertia guns are reportedly not as good at mitigating recoil as gas guns. I'm all about saving the money and not buying another gun, if this will work for my intended purposes.
My first turkey gun was with Remington 870 Magnum Turkey. It is a beast and throws out patterns which make you want to reach out and touch thme. Bought a Beretta A300 KO Turkey. I added a Holosun 507C and Indian Creek choke. Don't miss the kick of the 870 at all. Still great patterns at 40 yards using Apex TSS. I have nevers been out with it when I missed the 870.
On another note. I have a Mossberg SA 410 with a Holosun 507C and Indian Creek through which I shoot Apex TSS. If they are 40 yards or under, you have a dead turkey. No kick at all.
I do not have and have never shot a 28g for turkey. I have them for other bird hunting and they are a pleasure to shoot.
Just getting away from the pump to any automatic action will help tremendously. I have seen all sorts of figures but the average seems like about 25%. You should get more reduction with the sub gauge. Best of luck to you. JMO
Found a LimbSaver Airtech slip-on pad at the Cabela's local to me, so I have that on the gun. I threw in the 572 choke that I got with it and when I get another free minute I'll dig out the Holosun box. I can't recall if they included the shims for multiple guns or if I have to call to get one. Either way, shouldn't take much to get it finished up.
I'm going to take some 1oz high brass 6's to the range and just run the gun to get a feel for recoil. Assuming that goes well, I'll zero up the Holosun with those and then get some TSS shells. I won't have time to dither with it, so what it is, that's what it'll be for this season. I would think this should get me to 40 yards at least, and then till next spring I can worry about trying other chokes, other shells, etc.
Or, if it's just too much recoil still, I'll know I just have to go 410 and be done with it.
Me being near 80 I still shoot a Mossberg 12GA but realized I'll need to ease up on the recoil soon......my choice narrowed down the Winchester SX4 or Mossberg 940, both gas guns.
The thing I'm trying hard to put out of my mind is I'm 49 and I have never been recoil shy. I wasn't ready to do this, but here I am.
I got put on blood thinners permanently after two rounds of blood clots in my lungs. I know, it's nothing to fool around with, and I'm still recovering, but trying to get my stuff together here so when I'm able to shoot and I can go do it and get to hunting turkeys a little. Our turkey hunting here in southeast PA kinda stinks, and I can do my usual travelling that I do to hunt them this year since I've been out of work so much, but I wanna at least get out and try to maybe hear a bird. And if I'm lucky enough that he plays my game, I wanna have a fighting chance at rolling him.
You'd be better off dialing down your loads. 2 oz of TSS is way more than what's needed.
Winchester sx4
Quote from: Ihuntoldschool on March 24, 2025, 12:28:12 AMYou'd be better off dialing down your loads. 2 oz of TSS is way more than what's needed.
I agree with this. A 2 3/4", 12 guage shell will hold more tss than anyone really needs. Of course, if you are looking for an excuse to buy a new gun, don't let this argument stop you.
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I have a Monifeltro 20ga and love it. Super light to carry and is a turkey killer. Carlson's .575 and 1 5/8 TSS#9. Don't really notice recoil, especially when shooting a big Tom.
Randy
I'm looking forward to trying the Montefeltro out. I know my perception of the recoil won't mind it one tiny bit... the issue is if it bruises my shoulder. If it does, I have to adjust to where it doesn't. Being on blood thinners, bleeding is bad and bruises are bleeding.
A slight bruise isn't a problem, since I won't be shooting lots of turkeys per year. But a serious bruise will be a problem, so I have to be a bit judicious here. I don't want to push the panic button and go to a 410 autoloader, although if that's what it takes to keep hunting I will.
I am going to try and get out before the season and check the red dot of my 20 and .410. I will try to get you some pics of the patterns. It will probably be at the end of the week.
My new favorite turkey gun is the new Browning Sweet 16. I have a Briley .600 Turkey choke with Fox Trot 1 7/8 oz TSS that patterns real fine. At around 5 1/2 pounds shooting 2 3/4 inch shells, this handles like a dream. I never feel under-gunned with this sub-gauge. Just another option out there...
Quote from: tddeangelo on March 24, 2025, 09:46:08 AMI'm looking forward to trying the Montefeltro out. I know my perception of the recoil won't mind it one tiny bit... the issue is if it bruises my shoulder. If it does, I have to adjust to where it doesn't. Being on blood thinners, bleeding is bad and bruises are bleeding.
A slight bruise isn't a problem, since I won't be shooting lots of turkeys per year. But a serious bruise will be a problem, so I have to be a bit judicious here. I don't want to push the panic button and go to a 410 autoloader, although if that's what it takes to keep hunting I will.
You can always get a 28ga.. I hand load 1.5oz of T 9s, it's the cats meow.. because you are on blood thinner, I would put a Limbsaver butt pad on it. I also think that a pistol grip helps take some of the recoil.
Already put a slip-on LimbSaver Airtech on the Montefeltro.
Only thing I really gotta do is pick some tss shells and order... likely something in the 1-1/4 to 1-3/8 oz range if there's inventory to pick from. And I gotta find the box with my Meadow Creek stuff to get the right vent rib shim so I can move my Holosun 507 off my 870 and onto the Monte.
If I can't put my hands on that mount hardware I'm sure I can call Meadow Creek and get what I need somehow.
I've thought about getting a comb pad as well, and maybe a fore end cap weight to help with muzzle jump. Plus adding weight to the gun won't hurt the cause for recoil reduction.
If all of this ends with too much recoil, I will look into new guns. One "nice" thing about my health situation is I've been out on sick leave long enough that I'm not going to take off the first week of the season in May like I usually do...which on its own is not good... but it means I'll have surplus vacation time this year that I can "cash out" at my per diem. When the dust settles, that'll pay for a new gun. So... one door closes and another opens, I guess.
If you go to 20ga, these will help your cause to prevent bruises and kill birds all day...
https://rockyridgeammo.com/products/youth-light-20-gauge-tss-1-5oz-9
Just out of curiosity... does anyone sell a 1.5oz 12ga tss shell? I'd think that would not kick more than a 20ga 1.5oz load?
I feel sure you will like the 20 ga a lot especially with a load of TSS. I went to a youth 11-87 20 ga a few years ago to just get a lighter gun than my 11-87 12 ga when TSS first hit the market big. I can't complain about the gun as to efficiency, light weight and recoil. I do have a slight issue with it feeding the 3" Federal TSS loads on the second shot so I went with an Apex 2 3/4" shell for my back up rounds in the magazine which feed great. They also pattern great at 40. With you wanting to reduce recoil I would purchase some of the TSS 20 ga 2.75" shells in #9 shot. I find in my gun shooting a standard extra full Carlson flush choke in a .580 diameter patterns great. Without going into the pellet count stuff I'll say that the Federal 3" #9 has just over 500 pellets in it, my little gun puts an amazing number of pellets in a 20" circle with a smooth pattern at 40 yards. I prefer the 20" pattern view due to having plenty of leeway in case I get off target or the bird is moving. The Apex 2.75" #9 load patterns great also. I'm 66 years young so when I get older and run out of the 3" Federals the Apex 2.75" will become my main load due to their lower recoil and still having a great killing pattern.
Good luck with your new adventure in the smaller gauge turkey gun, you won't be disappointed in performance as well as achieving your desired reduced recoil.
Quote from: tddeangelo
quote author=tddeangelo link=msg=1217937 date=1742866247]
Just out of curiosity... does anyone sell a 1.5oz 12ga tss shell? I'd think that would not kick more than a 20ga 1.5oz load?
link=msg=1217937 date=1742866247]
Just out of curiosity... does anyone sell a 1.5oz 12ga tss shell? I'd think that would not kick more than a 20ga 1.5oz load?
[/quote]salt creek and herters does. Both great performance. If you are into reloading Ronny Savage has an excellent 1.5 oz 12 ga TSS load that he may share with you.
As stated gas guns, such as the Beretta kick less than the inertia Benelli's. The kick off device on the Beretta works fantastic.
A 20 gauge gas gun with the kick off and TSS ammo would suit you for the rest of your days.
I think the turkey version of the A300 may be my permanent solution till next spring. This year the Monte will do the job, or I'll get the lighter charge loads for the 870.
Here's one I'll tote some this year, Charles Daly 101 20 gauge turkey model. I've got it dialed in with 2-3/4" #9 TSS and Trulock .575 Precision Hunter. Had to work on the trigger pull weight but really like the lack of a hammer.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250327/6bc5c6761cd9cb14cb24f94040a1395b.jpg)
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Feelin' that A300 Ultima Turkey calling my name... I might wind up with one...
Windy Hill Precision also loads 1.5oz 1100fps loads in a 20. I shoot them with 9.5s. Pretty salty little round.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250328/2e9f7b239e40056d6de53bf3036eb0ba.jpg)
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A recoil operated shotgun like a Benelli, Franchi or Retay will have more recoil than a gas gun like a Beretta, Win SX4, or a Mossberg SA-20
SA-20 was bought for my wife who is only 5'2, and she has no concerns with the recoil. Great pattern with Apex TSS loads. I feel like it kicks less than a shut gun slug, so you shouldn't have any real issues with the recoil.
Well, the gun issue is settled.
I picked up a Beretta A300 Ultima Turkey 20ga today. Now to find a choke. It's like trying to go buy a Christmas tree at 10pm on Christmas Eve.
Open to suggestions... I won't have time (nor will there be inventory for it) to dither with "optimal". I'll need "acceptable" for this season and work till next year on improving things.
I love my A300 i didn't get the turkey because its not really my turkey gun but it might become it :). First and this is just my opinion i hated the kickoff system on the A300. It slapped my cheek hard enough to make me say notty words lol. I took it off and replaced it with a Kick eez pad way better in my book.
If it bothers you like it did me and from reading several others the kick eez is a good fix.
Good luck
If i had it to do over again id get the A300 Turkey but Cabelas had a whatabargin i couldn't pass up lol.
Quote from: tddeangelo on March 28, 2025, 04:44:22 PMWell, the gun issue is settled.
I picked up a Beretta A300 Ultima Turkey 20ga today. Now to find a choke. It's like trying to go buy a Christmas tree at 10pm on Christmas Eve.
Open to suggestions... I won't have time (nor will there be inventory for it) to dither with "optimal". I'll need "acceptable" for this season and work till next year on improving things.
Looked like it has an extended choke on their website. Is it a turkey choke? If so, I bet it shoots well. My brother in law has the Franchi 20ga turkey, and the factory turkey choke shoots great with T#9
it's marked as a turkey choke, but also marked that it's not rated for steel. I'm assuming TSS qualifies as steel.
I shoot TSS through a Remington super full that says not rated for steel. I have not seen any Ill effects. I would not use it for a lot of shooting, but for turkey, the average Hunter May shoot 3-5 times per year.. your mileage may vary. You have to make the decision, but if it was me, I would try it. You could always call Beretta and talk to one of their technicians. Good luck. Keep us posted with some pics