Looking at #7 Nickel shot with %6 antimony for a 12 gauge load. Anyone have experience with #7? I know 7.5 is considered to light for 40 yards, but I'm wondering if the nickel coated slightly heavier pellet would be able to do it while having a denser pattern than #6.
Yes, quality NP 7s will kill to 40 yds, but I wouldn't push it any further than that. 7.5s are good to 35 yds. Beware though, that there is some low quality NP shot out there from a large seller of reloading components. If it really is 6% antimony, it should be fine, but I have bought some in the past that did not pattern as good as Lawrence magnum grade unplated shot. It has everything to do with the quality of the underlying pellet.
I use a 20ga 7 nickel plated pheasant load in o/u. It's good to about 35. I would say 40 is pushing it a little but should work
I use it in my O/U for close to about 30 and other barrel is tss for 30/40
Yards
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Quote from: wchadw on February 19, 2025, 09:38:40 AMI use a 20ga 7 nickel plated pheasant load in o/u. It's good to about 35. I would say 40 is pushing it a little but should work
I use it in my O/U for close to about 30 and other barrel is tss for 30/40
Yards
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This would be in a 3 1/2in or 3in 12 gauge, so a bit more juice behind it. Is your pheasant load the Fiocci? I've seen that one pop up in a lot in nickel plated discussions.
Quote from: Penguin907 on February 19, 2025, 10:20:14 AMQuote from: wchadw on February 19, 2025, 09:38:40 AMI use a 20ga 7 nickel plated pheasant load in o/u. It's good to about 35. I would say 40 is pushing it a little but should work
I use it in my O/U for close to about 30 and other barrel is tss for 30/40
Yards
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This would be in a 3 1/2in or 3in 12 gauge, so a bit more juice behind it. Is your pheasant load the Fiocci? I've seen that one pop up in a lot in nickel plated discussions.
Yes. I use golden pheasant and a hand load "copy" of golden pheasant
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X2 what wchadw said. I use a handload turkey recipe off Ballistic Products archives with #7s nickleplated lead in an O/U 20 gauge, which kills at 40. I wouldn't try over 40 though. So I believe with a 12 you should be fine...
Do you guys use BPs nickel plated shot? Theirs says 4% antimony and Precision Reloading says %6.
Quote from: Penguin907 on February 19, 2025, 01:25:00 PMDo you guys use BPs nickel plated shot? Theirs says 4% antimony and Precision Reloading says %6.
I think i got mine from precision reloading
I stripped down a GP and tried to match components. Sent to precision for testing and velocity was real close to the GP and pressure was good
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Quote from: Penguin907 on February 19, 2025, 10:20:14 AMQuote from: wchadw on February 19, 2025, 09:38:40 AMI use a 20ga 7 nickel plated pheasant load in o/u. It's good to about 35. I would say 40 is pushing it a little but should work
I use it in my O/U for close to about 30 and other barrel is tss for 30/40
Yards
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This would be in a 3 1/2in or 3in 12 gauge, so a bit more juice behind it. Is your pheasant load the Fiocci? I've seen that one pop up in a lot in nickel plated discussions.
Probably fine out to 40
I'd pattern it though
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Quote from: BandedSpur on February 19, 2025, 07:39:41 AMYes, quality NP 7s will kill to 40 yds, but I wouldn't push it any further than that. 7.5s are good to 35 yds. Beware though, that there is some low quality NP shot out there from a large seller of reloading components. If it really is 6% antimony, it should be fine, but I have bought some in the past that did not pattern as good as Lawrence magnum grade unplated shot. It has everything to do with the quality of the underlying pellet.
I have also gotten better patterns with L. magnum shot then with some nickel plated
Quote from: Penguin907 on February 19, 2025, 01:25:00 PMDo you guys use BPs nickel plated shot? Theirs says 4% antimony and Precision Reloading says %6.
Go with Precision Reloading.
Maybe. But you have to pattern to confirm it's actually denser than #6 shot at 40. Lighter shot spreads faster and may not give you the denser pattern when you get to 40.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/2f2uQHKE7We1HfcP6
2oz of #7 Nickle at 40 yards. Pardon my terrible circle drawing abilities. Looks like it will work well enough.
as Ihuntoldschool points out, larger pellets will often hold a tighter pattern for longr than smaller pellets, until you get pellet bump (i.e. pellets bumping into each other degrading the pattern).
The more antimoney, the harder the lead pellet would be, but also the less dense it will be (lead is denser than antimony). Needs to be a good balance here to create shot that is hard enough not to deform, but heavy enough to maintain energy.
"Antimony is the alloying metal used to harden lead. Antimony is a brittle flaky, crystalline metal with a density of 6.7 grams/cc. Pure lead's density is 11.34 grams/cc. Therefore, when lead is alloyed with antimony it becomes a harder pellet, but as more antimony is added, the overall density of the pellet is reduced."
When I used to load lead for dove quail, I always liked #7's over #7.5's... Very little difference in pattern density for 30-35 yard shots taken on smaller game birds such as dove/quail, but it sure seemed to hit the quail a bit harder
For turkey hunting, unless I was getting screaming deal on shot, I would stick with lead #6's... Easy to pattern densely out to the ranges I am comfortable shooting, with more down-range energy... I just do not see the downside?
No offense intended toward o.p., but why? A good lead 5's or 6's will kill plenty good at 40 yards. A few extra holes in paper are of dubious value if they lack penetrating power. A good turkey load of 5 or 6 shot will pattern plenty good enough, and give a margin for error if your range estimation is off. No need to reinvent the wheel here, just call them close and shoot them in the head, and warm up the oven.
Quote from: the Ward on March 02, 2025, 10:10:42 AMNo offense intended toward o.p., but why? A good lead 5's or 6's will kill plenty good at 40 yards. A few extra holes in paper are of dubious value if they lack penetrating power. A good turkey load of 5 or 6 shot will pattern plenty good enough, and give a margin for error if your range estimation is off. No need to reinvent the wheel here, just call them close and shoot them in the head, and warm up the oven.
I haven't been able to get good patterns with three different chokes, two barrels, and 5s and 6s. Trying to solve the problem without getting a new gun or using tss.
Quote from: Penguin907 on March 10, 2025, 08:57:37 PMI haven't been able to get good patterns with three different chokes, two barrels, and 5s and 6s. Trying to solve the problem without getting a new gun or using tss.
What is the issue with the patterns, and at what ranges?
If memory serves, #7's are pushing the envelope at 40 yards as far as having the energy to consistently penetrate bone and kill a bird. And getting reasonable patterns with #6's under 40 yards should be easily attainable.
Have you taken a bore gauge to the barrel and to the chokes to see what type of constriction you are actually getting as opposed to what is marked on the chokes? Are you certain you are purchasing the correct branded chokes for your gun (Briley once sent me Beretta chokes for a Benelli, which effectively made all the chokes cylinder as I recall)...
A standard full choke should be 0.035 in constriction... My current XS-4 has a bore diameter of exactly .740, so my full choke should measure .705... My Extra-full measures exactly .700
If I were shooting a gun with a bore diameter of say .710, that same extra-full in my current gun would be an effective improved cylinder choke (no matter how it is marked).
At 40 yards I'm getting holes and not appropriately dense patterns in a 10in circle. Not getting to that 100 in a 10in circle mark. I don't plan on shooting that far, but if that's considered the standard to meet, I'd like to meet it.
Gun is Benelli Nova, so all the chokes are Beretta/Benelli mobil. Tried a carlson coyote .680 (already had for varmint hunting), patternmaster anaconda striker .670, and a carlson .650. Carlson .650 patterns the worst. Blows it out even with 7s.
I haven't taken bore gauges to the barrels or chokes.
Have you tried Winch LBs since you are not willing to pay the price for TSS? You will likely never be able to load ammo with any shot size that will equal their performance. Although I will say, there seem to have been some quality control issues with those the last couple of years.
Quote from: BandedSpur on March 12, 2025, 07:13:40 AMHave you tried Winch LBs since you are not willing to pay the price for TSS? You will likely never be able to load ammo with any shot size that will equal their performance. Although I will say, there seem to have been some quality control issues with those the last couple of years.
Haven't tried LBs yet, but those aren't the only loads people regularly get 100+ in 10in right? The price of TSS doesn't bother me, it just seems to me like a way to make the sport easier which I'm not interested in doing.
Quote from: Penguin907 on March 11, 2025, 10:26:59 AMGun is Benelli Nova, so all the chokes are Beretta/Benelli mobil.
Beretta and Benelli are NOT based on the same bore diameter! If you received Beretta Mobil, you are very likely shooting a far more open choke than you think you are.
Following is a quote a gun website:
These two chokes have identical outside dimensions, however these chokes are based on two different bore diameters and should not be interchanged.I previously described the same situation, when I ordered some after-market chokes, and was sent Beretta instead of Benelli chokes. Chokes were all effectively very open chokes compared to what I ordered. I ordered the correct chokes, but was sent the wrong ones.
If you can get a hold of a good bore gauge, this mystery will be solved quickly... You can also put in the factory full, and might get vastly improved chokes.
All my chokes say Benelli/Beretta mobil or ber/ben. Looking on Carlson's website there isn't a listing for just benelli mobil or just beretta mobil. Can you buy aftermarket Benelli mobil only chokes? Talked to patternmaster customer support this morning, and they said there is no difference between beretta and benelli mobil chokes.
Quote from: Penguin907 on March 12, 2025, 11:34:27 AMAll my chokes say Benelli/Beretta mobil or ber/ben. Looking on Carlson's website there isn't a listing for just benelli mobil or just beretta mobil. Can you buy aftermarket Benelli mobil only chokes? Talked to patternmaster customer support this morning, and they said there is no difference between beretta and benelli mobil chokes.
I looked up manufacturer bore diameters for Mobil chokes in Beretta and Benelli:
Beretta "Mobil Bore" shotgun chokes are based on a .732 inch (18.6mm) bore. The bore diameter for the Beretta/Benelli Mobil chokes, designed for models like the SBE/M1, is typically around .722 inches. If you ordered the Beretta Mobil chokes they might be considerably more open than you wanted... Although the constrictions you posted should give adequately tight chokes even for the Benelli at 40 yards...
I would call Carlson, let them know your issue. Ask their advice and go from there.
On another note: Previously owning a Benelli (M-1 and M-2), ported chokes did NOT pattern well at all in my guns (clumpy patterns full of holes). The more I read on ported chokes, the less I want to use them... Looking at some YouTube gurus that posted up fairly extensive patterning, with some good technology, the ported chokes generally under-preformed non-ported in the same constrictions, and sometimes drastically so.