Hunting scenario, your setup and have two gobblers coming into range and you have the opportunity to kill either one, which one would you shoot and why? One is in full Strut ...
The one that presents the best shot! I have watched a lot of video's and sometime the looker is the better bird not the strutter, that is when a double is taken!
Lots of variables here. If I am alone and 2 gobblers come in, I probably shoot the strutter when he comes out of strut. If they are new birds, not on my hit list, I may let the dominant bird go as long as he isn't remarkably more mature than the other. I can admit that I am lucky and have one private spot where we can usually get 3 year olds or better. Just the number of birds for the small private area makes our odds go up. But most birds I have shot are 2 year olds. 19-20 pound, 8-10" beard, 7/8-1 1/8th" spurs. It's the birds character and the hunt that determines how successful I feel.
The first one in range. Reasoning is, I've had hunts that I thought were slam dunks go south and leave me stomping my hat because I got greedy and waited for another opportunity that ended up not presenting itself
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I've shot the strutter and I've shot the non strutter.
If the non strutter appears bigger, he's dead. If I can't tell, I'm shooting the strutter.
Sometimes I'm shooting the one I can maneuver on the best. Say the gun is up, but I may need to adjust slightly...I'm shooting the bird I have to move the least on
The first one that offers me the best shot, has unique characteristics or a special kind of attitude coming in.
The 1st one to present a good shot is going to "win".
I have always evaluated gobblers by their beards because I don't have superman vision like some folks seem to have where I can see a gobbler's spurs from forty yards away...or even at ten yards unless there is no ground cover, which I have found to rarely be the case in almost every place I have ever hunted. ;D
...Hence, if multiple gobblers come in and present equal shot opportunities, I will always shoot the one I think has the best beard. As for the aforementioned spurs, like Forrest always said, spurs are like a box of chocolates for me...I never know what a gobbler will have until I have latched onto him. :)
"Bird in the Hand is Worth 2 in the Bush!" If both birds are Gobblers, as stated, then the first one that presents a GOOD shot gets a RIDE (provided I have more than 1 tag). All things being equal, the Strutter would be first on my list. If it's my last tag and plenty of time to hunt, then neither one may RIDE home. Too many variables to give a straight answer IMO. GREAT question Greg!
On private land one time, I shot the one with the longer beard (strutting). The other one had a thicker, but very curved beard. Later that season, he took a truck ride too. It was obviously the same bird because of the weird shape of the beard and how thick it was.
All things equal, I go with the bigger bird/bigger beard. If only one is cooperating, it's him. Equal birds, take the best shot.
I try to take the one I think is dominant. That is likely to be the strutter but not always. Sometimes it comes down to which one gives you the shot opportunity. Like Gobblenut, I never see spurs before I shoot.
Two visible longbeards ??
First one that that offers a slam-dunk shot gets it.
Spurs are always like Christmas morning.
The one with the longest beard
Private land...I'm shooting the non-strutter. If the strutter is the dominate bird then maybe he's smarter and has better chance of survival. If it's somewhere else then whichever bird gives me the first opportunity.
I take the first good shot I get. Generally it's the strutter because he will catch my attention. Plus the bird strutting isn't as alert. The looker may put and cause the strutter to stretch his head real high. Boom. Mike chamberlain talked about this theory and said there's no absolutes on which bird is bigger etc. It can go either way from what I've heard.
The first gobbler, that presents a good shot will get a ride in the pickup...
Way to many ways for the hunt to get screwed up...
When the Mrs. asks for a gobbler to deep fry, I try to get her one...She doesn't care about weight, spurs, or beard length, just a turkey to eat...
"Butterballs aren't good, like a wild one."
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Quote from: GobbleNut on February 11, 2025, 03:36:52 PMI have always evaluated gobblers by their beards because I don't have superman vision like some folks seem to have where I can see a gobbler's spurs from forty yards away...or even at ten yards unless there is no ground cover, which I have found to rarely be the case in almost every place I have ever hunted. ;D
...Hence, if multiple gobblers come in and present equal shot opportunities, I will always shoot the one I think has the best beard. As for the aforementioned spurs, like Forrest always said, spurs are like a box of chocolates for me...I never know what a gobbler will have until I have latched onto him. :)
X2
I find it interesting that a few are saying "I shoot the strutter". Thinking about that, I have found that if I call multiple gobblers in at one time, they are (most of the time) either all strutting or all not. Of course, there have been exceptions to that over the years, but generally speaking, they are all doing one or the other...or sometimes trading off and doing both. ...Just a personal observation.
If one is noticeably more vocal, I'll try to shoot the other one if there's easy opportunity at both. That only applies to the private land that I hunt with my dad and brother because I figure they will have a better opportunity to kill the more vocal bird later on. Other than that I don't give it much thought. Whichever bird gives me an opportunity first is going to get shot.
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Quote from: GobbleNut on February 11, 2025, 03:36:52 PMI have always evaluated gobblers by their beards because I don't have superman vision like some folks seem to have where I can see a gobbler's spurs from forty yards away...or even at ten yards unless there is no ground cover, which I have found to rarely be the case in almost every place I have ever hunted. ;D
...Hence, if multiple gobblers come in and present equal shot opportunities, I will always shoot the one I think has the best beard. As for the aforementioned spurs, like Forrest always said, spurs are like a box of chocolates for me...I never know what a gobbler will have until I have latched onto him. :)
Presentation first (i.e. the one presenting the best shot), but I also prefer to shoot the longest beard... Although coloration and size might come into play as well...
We apparently have Rio's and rarely Merriam's here in CA. Couple years back, I had a pair come in, and shot the bird with Merriam coloration.
Last year, I had a pair come in behind me... They came up the draw in front of me, and somehow got above and behind me... As they were originally walking uphill to me, they appeared to be of similar size, both with long beards...
I was able to spin around, when I realized they got behind/above me, and they both poked their heads up over a knoll (so that I could only see their head and necks). I shot the bird whose head was poking up the highest... He had 6 (count em' 6) beards, and the longest was a rope! :drool:
Turns out I was darned lucky... After I shot, both birds instantly disappeared, and two birds took off in flight. Thought I must have shot over the top, and dejectedly walked up the hill to scope out the scene, and there laid my third, and dead bird... That third bird that joined them, could have easily been a jake.
First one that gets in the way of my bead!
No real proof there is an advantage to shooting the Strutter so I don't care!
There are a few theories around about leaving the Strutter cuz he's dominant, but he's only dominant over the other bird he's with it doesn't mean he's the man of all the local Tom's!
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In most cases your better off shooting the looker not the strutter, reason why you could turn the looker into a non-gobbling turkey. Hopefully in passing up the strutter you will still have a gobbling bird to hunt the next day.
Sure anything is possible and anything can happen...
It's all up to you which gobbler you want to shoot and I agree public / private land does plan a part in your decision
IMO
Lots of great posts ...
In most cases your better off shooting the looker not the strutter, reason why you could turn the looker into a non-gobbling turkey. Hopefully in passing up the strutter you will still have a gobbling bird to hunt the next
Question for you guys that have been at this sport for a longer period of time than I have. If the strutter (dominant bird) is taken out of a 2-gobbler group, with or without hens, doesn't the sub assume that role?
Quote from: bbcoach on February 13, 2025, 03:05:28 PMIn most cases your better off shooting the looker not the strutter, reason why you could turn the looker into a non-gobbling turkey. Hopefully in passing up the strutter you will still have a gobbling bird to hunt the next
Question for you guys that have been at this sport for a longer period of time than I have. If the strutter (dominant bird) is taken out of a 2-gobbler group, with or without hens, doesn't the sub assume that role?
Good question, I think anything can happen in the pecking order if that gobbler is challenged at some point...
From years ago:
In my experience if hunting good ground and you heard a gobbler, you hunted it. With luck you killed it. If this were the mature, dominant Tom of the area, typically this was the only turkey you heard gobble. Even if he were not alone. Sometimes his scout would sound off on a great morning or by excited calling. Sometimes.
If this was the mature dominant tom, and you killed him..... About three days later the holler would be lit up by other gobblers!
Today, I kill the first one that hits the magic yard line!
Cleanest shot at the one with the nicest beard takes a ride in my "Canyon of Heroes" (My GMC Canyon Pick-up).
Quote from: WV Flopper on February 13, 2025, 06:37:19 PMFrom years ago:
In my experience if hunting good ground and you heard a gobbler, you hunted it. With luck you killed it. If this were the mature, dominant Tom of the area, typically this was the only turkey you heard gobble. Even if he were not alone. Sometimes his scout would sound off on a great morning or by excited calling. Sometimes.
If this was the mature dominant tom, and you killed him..... About three days later the holler would be lit up by other gobblers!
Today, I kill the first one that hits the magic yard line!
Bingo. You kill the dominant bird in a well established spring flock and the next couple of days (until the pecking order is worked out) you'll think you're the Pied Piper. The pecking order plays a strong role in the behavior of turkeys.
First clean shot on a mature gobbler....Looker has traveled home with me several times...
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I don't care how you cook them, you can boil them, fry them, bake them; those spurs and beards don't taste good! Take the shot that presents itself to you and be thankful for the opportunity.
I will shoot the first one that gives me a shot. I had 3 come in one morning last spring, 2 were strutting and the other one was not. The 2 strutters stayed out of range but the other one came in to about 40 yards so I shot him. He had 1 & 7/16" spurs.
Quote from: bpsmag1026 on February 14, 2025, 08:52:10 AMI will shoot the first one that gives me a shot. I had 3 come in one morning last spring, 2 were strutting and the other one was not. The 2 strutters stayed out of range but the other one came in to about 40 yards so I shot him. He had 1 & 7/16" spurs.
Throws the old adage of the strutter being the more dominant bird right out the window doesn't it. I'll bet the other 2 didn't have 1 7/16" spurs. Makes us think doesn't it?
Yes it does! I was really surprised
Spurs do not determine dominance!
One of my longest spurred birds was also a looker that snuck in away from the flock that had a strutter in it.
Never know!
A new hunter who wants a full fan to mount might not want to shoot the strutting gobbler.
The only scenario I can think of where I DON'T shoot the one that gives me the first opportunity is if the 2nd bird is a color phase.
Quote from: CALLM2U on February 14, 2025, 10:39:14 AMThe only scenario I can think of where I DON'T shoot the one that gives me the first opportunity is if the 2nd bird is a color phase.
Had this exact thing play out last year, I never even looked at lead Tom who was in full strut, most vocal and following the hen or did I look at 2nd Tom, then 2 jakes, super focused on White/ Smokey Tom bring up the rear. Hopefully that Tom is still around this season.
Longest beard/biggest bird I'll wait for first but if I can see both birds are of same size, whichever one gives me the best shot first.
I generally try to shoot the strutter but I get a little antsy sometimes and shoot the first one that gives me a good shot!
Quote from: Dtrkyman on February 14, 2025, 10:06:53 AMSpurs do not determine dominance!
I think most of us understand that spurs nor weight nor beard determines dominance but it does take us RIGHT BACK to Greg's Original question of Which One? Most of us only register 4 things, in the moment, for the most part 1. a Redhead 2. A beard 3. Hopefully a full fan 4. Is he within my effective range and Boom. So many variables to consider.
Quote from: bbcoach on February 14, 2025, 01:11:58 PMQuote from: Dtrkyman on February 14, 2025, 10:06:53 AMSpurs do not determine dominance!
I think most of us understand that spurs nor weight nor beard determines dominance but it does take us RIGHT BACK to Greg's Original question of Which One? Most of us only register 4 things, in the moment, for the most part 1. a Redhead 2. A beard 3. Hopefully a full fan 4. Is he within my effective range and Boom. So many variables to consider.
X2 Exactly
A Tom is a Tom for me! Long spurs and heavy weight is a bonus, I do not care about a beard but I like spurs!!!
I have had hundreds of Jake's come in strutting. Does that make them dominate?
Quote from: WV Flopper on February 14, 2025, 11:21:01 PMI have had hundreds of Jake's come in strutting. Does that make them dominate?
They are starting to establish dominance and pecking order in my opinion...They have to learn ,,,
Quote from: bbcoach on February 13, 2025, 03:05:28 PMIn most cases your better off shooting the looker not the strutter, reason why you could turn the looker into a non-gobbling turkey. Hopefully in passing up the strutter you will still have a gobbling bird to hunt the next
Question for you guys that have been at this sport for a longer period of time than I have. If the strutter (dominant bird) is taken out of a 2-gobbler group, with or without hens, doesn't the sub assume that role?
I have seen a quite property light up in the days following the death of the king. Subordinates figure out he's gone and ramp up their efforts to re establish the pecking order with lots of gobbling and displaying.
As for the question, I'm always looking for spurs and the bigger spurs usually get the goods. Unless a gobbler has an enormous beard that is beyond ordinary, I'm looking at spurs. And yes, I have passed on several candy corn spurred gobblers while hunting for a set of hooks.
A Strutting Tom does not mean he is the Dominate Tom.
It simple means he is eager and displaying for the hens to potentially bread. He is actively promoting hims of to get some turkey action. He can be the dominant Tom. But a strutter does not automatically make him the man.
He is the same as the dressed up boy at the eight grade dance. No more, no less. It's that simple.
During the peak of the breeding cycle, I think all kinds of behavior is to be expected with pecking orders and gobblers being challenged with strutting.. I agree he's trying to attract hens, with displaying and strutting.
They can sure put on a show regardless if dominant or not dominant
Lots of great posts'''
I have only gotten the one but it was two coming in at the same time and I had to take the shot that put the second one out of danger as they kept crossing one another and I did not want to get a bird while injuring another. If it were a situation where one is better looking to be then I would try to wait until it dropped it's tail. I have turned down shots every years since then though and just shot them with the camera, my body makes them hard to clean and carry out.
Quote from: bbcoach on February 14, 2025, 09:25:26 AMQuote from: bpsmag1026 on February 14, 2025, 08:52:10 AMI will shoot the first one that gives me a shot. I had 3 come in one morning last spring, 2 were strutting and the other one was not. The 2 strutters stayed out of range but the other one came in to about 40 yards so I shot him. He had 1 & 7/16" spurs.
Throws the old adage of the strutter being the more dominant bird right out the window doesn't it. I'll bet the other 2 didn't have 1 7/16" spurs. Makes us think doesn't it?
This does make ya think... one of my Bests was a looker as well.
Bird in hand as previously stated X-2.
How many times have there been when they wouldn't break strut. I'm definitely no pro... But I've missed them shots before. The upright bird gets it.. if he's a good one.
Quote from: TrackeySauresRex on February 22, 2025, 12:59:39 PMHow many times have there been when they wouldn't break strut. I'm definitely no pro... But I've missed them shots before. The upright bird gets it.. if he's a good one.
I have never missed a strutter... Ones I have shot were all in good range. Shots I missed were head up, but with only the head and neck visible poking over a knoll or log or such... I tend to shoot over the top, probably putting the bead on the head instead of holding it at the base of the neck (which I could not see).
Of course in the open, head up is a bit easier shot, but we are still talking about shooting a fairly stationary target on the ground with a shotgun... Most misses come from taking a poor presentation shot, shooting too far, or being over-excited... Or not properly patterning the gun and knowing where it shoots with a super tight pattern.
Earlier in my turkey career, I once had a bird strut into very close range, and I clucked, chirped, and yelped to make his head come up... He strutted into range (15 yards), and then he strutted out, without me firing a shot... It was ingrained in me not to shoot a strutting bird, but after that experience, I was immediately deprogrammed.
Head up is a bit easier shot, but moreso for me, I do not want to put pellets in the meat, which is more likely when shooting a strutter.... But if he will not break strut, I have no problem with a shotgun blast doing so (in good range). ;D
I would say, if we took a poll, 90% of us have always heard to Shoot the Strutter if 2 or more gobblers show up. If we are looking for a high scoring bird, then we need to get a GOOD look at beard length, be able to see and judge spur length and be able to judge weight by size. As I said earlier, most of us see redhead and beard and BOOM.
I would shoot the one that provided the best shot opportunity for a clean kill.
I would simply like to have this kind of problem to sort out!
Quote from: Marc on February 22, 2025, 01:27:59 PMQuote from: TrackeySauresRex on February 22, 2025, 12:59:39 PMHead up is a bit easier shot, but moreso for me, I do not want to put pellets in the meat, which is more likely when shooting a strutter.... But if he will not break strut, I have no problem with a shotgun blast doing so (in good range). ;D
This is funny... about 10 years ago or so. I missed one for the exact same reason. lol! I didn't want to pepper him up with pellets.