That was a very good article... Hopefully it is accurate?
I will likely change over to TSS, simply because the "Hevi-Shot" materials are not longer to be found.
Saw this article on a different site and felt it was worth the read:
https://www.outdoorlife.com/hunting/podcast-the-truth-about-tss-turkey-loads/
Personally, I would rather see larger pellets with a lighter pellet density... I could be wrong, but I feel like a single #6 Hevi-shot pellet will create a larger wound channel than a single #9 TSS pellet, and for the ranges I am shooting, I am not too concerned about penetration... I feel there is a balance between density, pellet size, and pellet count... I feel that the density of these loads is a bit over-played for what we are using them for.
If I could find something, I would love a 1 5/8 oz load of #7 in the 15 g/cc range...
As it stands, I will need shells after next season for sure... I am looking at Foxtrot TSS 2 3/4" shells in 1 5/8 oz #8's.
Good read, thanks for sharing. I switched over to a 28 ga. this season and I really like how the Apex Ninja load performed in my gun. I'm happy with the 8.5 TSS shot myself.
I also shoot the Ninja 8.5's in my 28 gauge. Plenty of pellets and excellent terminal abilities.
Also less chance of a broken tooth. I think that 8.5's still have right at 500 pellets which is way more than is needed.
There's a reason #9 is the standard. It works, period, end of story. People who have no experience with tss try to wrap it up in the same package as lead. It's not. Now I've used everything from #8-9.5 and depending on gauge and payload I'll shoot the according shot size. However in no instance will I feel inadequate with #9.
A 1v1 comparison of a number #9 tss vs a Hevi #6 isn't a fair comparison when measuring wound channels or "damage". The 9s will usually put 2.5 to 3 times the number of pellets in the vitals as larger pellets. Where tss lacks the pellet size it more than makes up for in number of wound channels created. In the end both are more than capable, but for me TSS 9s are where I'm staying for the foreseeable future.
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Quote from: Spring Creek Calls on April 24, 2024, 10:02:00 AMI also shoot the Ninja 8.5's in my 28 gauge. Plenty of pellets and excellent terminal abilities.
I agree, with my 28 ga. I see no reason to change to anything other than using the Ninja 8.5, 1 3/8 oz. 2 3/4 TSS
I have already setup my gun with this round and it's deadly within my turkey killing range.
Apex Ninja 8.5 puts out a wicked pattern in my 20g. When you get this pellet count with a dense, fast moving projectile, it is a no brainer. You will have more wound channels that will penetrate and kill. I don't think you can go wrong with 8.5 or 9. I just think you have to see which load patterns better with your gun and choke. I get the argument that one on one, speed and density being equal, the larger shot will do more damage. In my opinion, the larger number of 8.5 or 9 pellets in the kill zone more than compensates for the size difference. I am also less concerned about losing this pattern in another 10-15 yards. Truth in reporting, I am not a physicist or a ballistics expert it works for me.
Quote from: Gooserbat on April 24, 2024, 02:13:21 PMThere's a reason #9 is the standard. It works, period, end of story. People who have no experience with tss try to wrap it up in the same package as lead. It's not. Now I've used everything from #8-9.5 and depending on gauge and payload I'll shoot the according shot size. However in no instance will I feel inadequate with #9.
How far out do #9's stay effective. Honestly, most of my shots are 35 or under, but "stuff" happens sometimes...
Almost anything you can purchase will kill birds on target at 35 yards. Cheap lead target loads will kill them. I am purchasing these loads, cause non-toxic is required in my state, and I want the best load possible... Outside of the patterning process, I will likely shoot 3 shells per year, and even at $10 per shell, that is a lot less than I will spend on gas.
I was looking at the #8's, but could be persuaded to purchase #9's.
I would love to hear from guys that have shot multiple pellet sizes in TSS, and I would also enjoy hearing a perspective of how patterns look compared to Hevi-Shot type loads?
9s run out of pattern and penetration around 72 yards, so it's a non issue.
I may try a stacked 8 or 8.5 over 9 but it really doesn't matter, I killed a bunch with 9.5 as well, it was the only size available when I bought my first couple lbs.
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Quote from: Marc on April 24, 2024, 05:29:53 PMQuote from: Gooserbat on April 24, 2024, 02:13:21 PMThere's a reason #9 is the standard. It works, period, end of story. People who have no experience with tss try to wrap it up in the same package as lead. It's not. Now I've used everything from #8-9.5 and depending on gauge and payload I'll shoot the according shot size. However in no instance will I feel inadequate with #9.
How far out do #9's stay effective. Honestly, most of my shots are 35 or under, but "stuff" happens sometimes...
Almost anything you can purchase will kill birds on target at 35 yards. Cheap lead target loads will kill them. I am purchasing these loads, cause non-toxic is required in my state, and I want the best load possible... Outside of the patterning process, I will likely shoot 3 shells per year, and even at $10 per shell, that is a lot less than I will spend on gas.
I was looking at the #8's, but could be persuaded to purchase #9's.
I would love to hear from guys that have shot multiple pellet sizes in TSS, and I would also enjoy hearing a perspective of how patterns look compared to Hevi-Shot type loads?
[/quQuote from: Marc on April 24, 2024, 05:29:53 PMQuote from: Gooserbat on April 24, 2024, 02:13:21 PMThere's a reason #9 is the standard. It works, period, end of story. People who have no experience with tss try to wrap it up in the same package as lead. It's not. Now I've used everything from #8-9.5 and depending on gauge and payload I'll shoot the according shot size. However in no instance will I feel inadequate with #9.
How far out do #9's stay effective. Honestly, most of my shots are 35 or under, but "stuff" happens sometimes...
Almost anything you can purchase will kill birds on target at 35 yards. Cheap lead target loads will kill them. I am purchasing these loads, cause non-toxic is required in my state, and I want the best load possible... Outside of the patterning process, I will likely shoot 3 shells per year, and even at $10 per shell, that is a lot less than I will spend on gas.
I was looking at the #8's, but could be persuaded to purchase #9's.
I would love to hear from guys that have shot multiple pellet sizes in TSS, and I would also enjoy hearing a perspective of how patterns look compared to Hevi-Shot type loads?
Honestly 60 is the new 40. I've killed around 50 birds with tss and saw another 30-40 get whacked. I've used 8, 8.5, 8/9 duplex, 9 and 9.5 in a 410. #8 is mean, like #2 lead with pattern density mean. It overkill but I like it. 8.5 is the happy medium. #09 is really all you need. (I saw a mis judged 82 yard kill with #9. Don't hate on it im just repeating what I saw.). 9.5 in my opinion is better for the smaller gauges.
I was talking to a pretty well know hunting tv personality one time and we were talking Turkey guns. He told me a shot he made on film that was 81 yards. I went back and watched the episode and that bird stoned. I'm not condoning it but tss is lethal stuff. I've shot 8s 9s 7.5x9 and 9x10. I really like the 9x10 or straight 9s the best. The hevi stuff just doesn't compare to tungsten.
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TSS is far superior to lead in the sub gauges. I shoot a 28 gauge and have never needed a follow up shot with #9's. A less experienced hunter< my wife, killed a 22 pound bird with my gun #9's at a distance we won't discuss(52 yards), stone dead. I am not a proponent of shooting over 40 yards myself. Just reporting results. I think it is the best option in sub gauges. In a 10 or 12, longbeards are more than enough at 40 yards. I will probably never shoot ant TSS out of my 12, backup to my 20 single which is a backup to my 28. I have a few Heavyweight 7's in 12 gauge and some 3" longbeard #5's that will get me to old age. I agree that the Heavyweight #7's are very nice as well. But never more than a twitch with #9 TSS and a few geese with the TSS #7's out of a 28 has made me a believer. Great info with this group. Get a starting point with this info, all posters here, and tune your setup. Good luck and God Bless. Z
So it would appear that there is a preference for #9's in TSS...
Does anyone that patterns have a 40 yard comparison patterns between #7's, #8's, and #9's? PLEASE POST THEM UP!
With steel, and with Hevi-shot, larger pellets pattern tighter... You might not have as high of a pattern density, but a larger percentage of the pellets fired will be within a 30" circle.
I'll say this as well... I shoot with a bead only... A long shot for me is 40 yards, in part due to the of not be able to physically pick out a hold point on the bird past that range... In part due to the excitement and enjoyment level of having a bird in your lap, and in part due to my personal preferences/ethics. I KNOW I would be tempted to take longer shots with optics due to the improved physical capabilities of doing so, and in part due to the illusion of the bird being closer (due to looking through optics).
So I am looking for a choke/shell combination that gives me some margin for error at 20 yards, and an effective pattern at 40 yards (and hopefully beyond), with reasonable recoil.
Quote from: Marc on April 25, 2024, 01:26:48 PMSo it would appear that there is a preference for #9's in TSS...
Does anyone that patterns have a 40 yard comparison patterns between #7's, #8's, and #9's? PLEASE POST THEM UP!
With steel, and with Hevi-shot, larger pellets pattern tighter... You might not have as high of a pattern density, but a larger percentage of the pellets fired will be within a 30" circle.
I'll say this as well... I shoot with a bead only... A long shot for me is 40 yards, in part due to the of not be able to physically pick out a hold point on the bird past that range... In part due to the excitement and enjoyment level of having a bird in your lap, and in part due to my personal preferences/ethics. I KNOW I would be tempted to take longer shots with optics due to the improved physical capabilities of doing so, and in part due to the illusion of the bird being closer (due to looking through optics).
So I am looking for a choke/shell combination that gives me some margin for error at 20 yards, and an effective pattern at 40 yards (and hopefully beyond), with reasonable recoil.
There are tons of patterns with every combination available on this forum, YouTube and facebook tss pages. I don't mean this rude at all but shoot some patterns and see what fits you best. Gun, choke, load, temp all make a difference. It's also fun to shoot and see what you/your gun really likes. If you don't want to go that route just buy 9s and go to work.
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Yes you are correct. The bigger, heavier,harder pellets will hold the center core better and create slightly bigger wound channels, hit a little harder etc.. As you know this holds true lead, steel, hevi shot, bismuth etc. TSS is no exception.
But you need to think long and hard. Do you really want to be "that guy" who shoots anything other than TSS #9?
I will be honest if you shoot bigger than 9 you're not going to stay competitive in the hole counting contests.
Quote from: Notsoyoungturk on April 24, 2024, 04:15:16 PMApex Ninja 8.5 puts out a wicked pattern in my 20g. When you get this pellet count with a dense, fast moving projectile, it is a no brainer. You will have more wound channels that will penetrate and kill. I don't think you can go wrong with 8.5 or 9. I just think you have to see which load patterns better with your gun and choke. I get the argument that one on one, speed and density being equal, the larger shot will do more damage. In my opinion, the larger number of 8.5 or 9 pellets in the kill zone more than compensates for the size difference. I am also less concerned about losing this pattern in another 10-15 yards. Truth in reporting, I am not a physicist or a ballistics expert it works for me.
Very nice pattern.
Last weekend, I was attempting to pattern my new gun for POI. Shot some cheapy target loads, and had as tight, or tighter patterns at 30 yards (well, more pellets in the target with a 12 ga.)... Tested at 40 yards, and that pattern completely fell apart.
Low Antimony shot, and I did not expect great patterns, but I was quite surprised at how much that pattern broke down in 10 yards. I would expect that my Hevi-Shot turkey loads, and especially TSS would hold together far better... But I won't know until I put them on paper.
Quote from: Marc on April 25, 2024, 05:22:05 PMQuote from: Notsoyoungturk on April 24, 2024, 04:15:16 PMApex Ninja 8.5 puts out a wicked pattern in my 20g. When you get this pellet count with a dense, fast moving projectile, it is a no brainer. You will have more wound channels that will penetrate and kill. I don't think you can go wrong with 8.5 or 9. I just think you have to see which load patterns better with your gun and choke. I get the argument that one on one, speed and density being equal, the larger shot will do more damage. In my opinion, the larger number of 8.5 or 9 pellets in the kill zone more than compensates for the size difference. I am also less concerned about losing this pattern in another 10-15 yards. Truth in reporting, I am not a physicist or a ballistics expert it works for me.
Very nice pattern.
Last weekend, I was attempting to pattern my new gun for POI. Shot some cheapy target loads, and had as tight, or tighter patterns at 30 yards (well, more pellets in the target with a 12 ga.)... Tested at 40 yards, and that pattern completely fell apart.
Low Antimony shot, and I did not expect great patterns, but I was quite surprised at how much that pattern broke down in 10 yards. I would expect that my Hevi-Shot turkey loads, and especially TSS would hold together far better... But I won't know until I put them on paper.
From what little I understand choke restrictions play a big part in how your core performs with TSS
I got into the 20ga because I'm old and it's lighter. Ordered some 3 inch #8 Apex. Excellent pattern so I'm staying with it.
That said I got a lot of lead for my old 835 that does a great job.Like them both. You know I've been pondering what will the manufacturers come up with next to want us to make that change for the latest and greatest?