If TFT and NWTF can raise so much money to fund all of these research projects why can't they raise enough to help a state put out a bounty for nest raiders/predators?
Well...without knowing for sure...I don't think any state would support or put up with a bounty. WE know how we feel. BUT. The non-hunting, including antis, outnumber us by quite a bit. All you have to do is look at the reintroduction of wolves to realize that.
It will never happen, I am not so sure I would want it to to be honest, not without strict shutdown procedures anyway, I am not nor will I ever be a "Kill them all" supporter, just because we may not like or understand them they all have a role to perform on this Earth. I have no problems with managing them though.
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First, there has to be peer-reviewed scientific evidence that trapping turkey/nest predators has a significant impact on turkey populations/reproduction. Unfortunately, that does not exist. No matter how many anecdotal reports you hear, or even your very own experiences from trapping, until there is actual scientific evidence of it being beneficial, it isn't going to happen. And even if the evidence is presented, the social pressures will most likely outweigh the prospect of actually implementing a predator bounty system.
That being said, South Dakota does such a system to benefit waterfowl.
south dakota has the nest predator bounty program
https://gfp.sd.gov/bounty-program/
Why must you be paid to do your part. Seriously if you take it upon yourself to eradicate as many nest raiders as possible you are making a difference where you hunt.
Quote from: Gooserbat on July 24, 2023, 10:07:04 AM
Why must you be paid to do your part. Seriously if you take it upon yourself to eradicate as many nest raiders as possible you are making a difference where you hunt.
Well said. I do think perhaps he meant it would bring more people to it though? I wish that was not needed as an incentive though.
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Quote from: Gooserbat on July 24, 2023, 10:07:04 AM
Why must you be paid to do your part. Seriously if you take it upon yourself to eradicate as many nest raiders as possible you are making a difference where you hunt.
One of the first purchases I made after I bought land was 6 dukes..it's one of the best things to introduce kids to, explaining predator pray balance, quick ethical kills and respect for any size animal before they reach an age to chase turkey and deer.
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Getting non turkey hunters alongside turkeys hunters involved in trapping is important. It's going to take a big effort to remove predators at the scale required. A incentive is required for those non turkey hunters. A $10-20 bounty would likely be enough to get people in rural communities and specifically the younger generation (some of them) interested in trapping for $. Why the heck not try it?
Quote from: arkrem870 on July 28, 2023, 09:41:07 AM
Getting non turkey hunters alongside turkeys hunters involved in trapping is important. It's going to take a big effort to remove predators at the scale required. A incentive is required for those non turkey hunters. A $10-20 bounty would likely be enough to get people in rural communities and specifically the younger generation (some of them) interested in trapping for $. Why the heck not try it?
If they don't care now they're not going to care about 10 or 20 dollars. Everybody wants the results but nobody wants to do the work, or very few of us anyway. I am not trying to be a jerk, but I think you and the OP are delusional, the only people that'll take part are a few meth heads looking to get money for drugs and most of what they'll catch will be the neighborhood cats. Not necessarily a bad thing when it comes to the feral cats though.
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Quote from: Turkeyman on July 22, 2023, 04:38:59 PM
Well...without knowing for sure...I don't think any state would support or put up with a bounty. WE know how we feel. BUT. The non-hunting, including antis, outnumber us by quite a bit. All you have to do is look at the reintroduction of wolves to realize that.
First point: Private landowners can do whatever predator management they want on their properties...as long as it is falls within the legal guidelines established by the state.
Second point: I agree with Turkeyman on the question as to whether most state agencies in this day and age would risk the backlash that they would most likely receive by instituting a predator control program on public lands. Quite honestly, I am surprised that South Dakota has such a program. I think it would be an interesting poll of state wildlife management agencies to find out how many would even consider such a program. I personally suspect there would be very few.
As Turkeyman points out, we hunters make up a very small portion of the overall human population...and that population contains a fickle bunch that are capable of making our lives miserable if they decide to turn against us. My recommendation is to proceed cautiously in overtly promoting things like predator management. The outcome of that could easily backfire. Take that advice from someone who lives in a state where that has happened.
Quote from: Hook hanger on July 22, 2023, 02:19:36 PM
If TFT and NWTF can raise so much money to fund all of these research projects why can't they raise enough to help a state put out a bounty for nest raiders/predators?
You may not realize this, but there is a large number of hunters in this country who love hunting and trapping predators and could care less about turkeys. While a lot of turkey hunters feel that every single predator should die so they might have one more turkey to hunt, die hard predator hunters want to be able to find a few every time they hunt! Yet another example of hunters not being able to find a common ground and willing to send a bad image for personal gain
Farmboy27 that is a very good, real post.
I too agree, we need predators on the Earth to do their part.
Quote from: Farmboy27 on July 28, 2023, 06:39:27 PM
Quote from: Hook hanger on July 22, 2023, 02:19:36 PM
If TFT and NWTF can raise so much money to fund all of these research projects why can't they raise enough to help a state put out a bounty for nest raiders/predators?
You may not realize this, but there is a large number of hunters in this country who love hunting and trapping predators and could care less about turkeys. While a lot of turkey hunters feel that every single predator should die so they might have one more turkey to hunt, die hard predator hunters want to be able to find a few every time they hunt! Yet another example of hunters not being able to find a common ground and willing to send a bad image for personal gain
This is largely what I mean when I say I am not a kill them all person and never will be, I love being able to go out in trapping season and get a few, I love being able to go out and call them and get a few, I love going out and chasing them with dogs and being able to get a few and no matter what though we may not understand why God put them on the Earth for a reason.
Now her is another funny thing to me, most trappers I know straight out hate a caller, they say we are taking away their animals and doing it the easy way. Yet the callers could care less about the trappers or the guys chasing them with the dogs. (As a matter of fact most of the callers want to try it with dogs but can't afford to or don't know how to get started) Seems no matter what we are all backbiting one another somehow or another, in some cases I agree with it but in others it is just plain stupid and hurts all of us.
Its not about the money for me I do my part and will continue doing it without a bounty. I don't think you could wipe predators out but it would be nice to get more people doing it. Coon numbers have been on the rise in my state before the prices fell out the bottom on furs. I just think its a little out of control when I can count 26 coons in 30 miles of highway. That is an extremely dense population of coons around me. I wouldn't care if it was meth heads or high school kids trying to save up for college doing the work catching predators. Turkey population has been falling around my area for 20yrs. State agencies say habitat that's good for a deer is good for turkeys. Nwtf hasn't done anything in my area for turkey habitat since the 90s. I think some of the organizations need to take a stand and grow a pair and take a little backlash from the opposition they are afraid of.
I see it as two headed really. First and most important, I do believe trapping (especially the nest predators) will benefit struggling populations of turkeys. Secondly, if a bounty is tied to the number of gobbler tags you can receive, it will test the mettle of the rising population of Turkey hunters. I think y'all know how that will probably go.... It would be a way of only limiting your opportunities if you wasn't willing to work some for it. Anyway, even if all stick it out, a few more Turkey nests will make it. Will this ever happen? Doubtful. But I for one would be all for it.