I've gotten lucky and killed 3 turkeys in my life but am not a "turkey hunter", but I am a trophy deer hunter. I have a question for real turkey hunters. Do y'all pass on younger short beard toms and wait on a long beard or do you take the tom that comes to your calling?
Almost never see "short bearded toms", if he is a tom he gets shot!
I have never shot a Jake. Not being snobby, just prefer to kill a mature gobbler. I am willing to go home empty handed. And with the sad state of most turkey populations, it just seems right to leave the young ones. My opinion only.
I'll pass on a Jake every time. But when I was younger I wouldn't (I've killed a couple) but the last 20 years or so I have. I have no desire to kill a jake, let them live and be back for them next year.
It's a sin for a grown man to kill a jake in my circle . It's also not legal .
Imo , it ok for a young hunter to start out with one or 2 , but after that it's grown gobblers only .
I've out grown shooting Jake's... 99% of the time. Nothing wrong with joining club Jake but now days anything with a full fan or a full beard gets shot in the noggin.
Would this one be a shooter?
(https://i.imgur.com/OeNFUIl.jpg)
Years ago when we had turkeys everywhere we trophy hunted spurs. Let alot of birds walk looking for nice sets.
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That's a mature gobbler (full fan being the obvious indicator), so yes, I would consider him to be a shooter. In addition, that looks like it might be a Merriam's, which generally have less-developed beards than the other subspecies, so going by the beard alone, he would be a representative specimen. Spurs are considered by some to be a better indicator of trophy quality,...but we obviously can't see those to make that determination.
As for your question about passing up birds while looking for a "trophy", I used to do that quite a bit,...but times have changed. Used to be we could pass up a few gobblers around these parts knowing that there would most likely be another one to take later in the season. Not so much anymore. Passing up a mature gobbler nowadays means you might not get another chance later on.
Bang, bang, dinner
I just passed up 2 Gobblers yesterday morning. I had 2 cone into my calls and they had 8 inch or so beard, at less than 10 steps. I just didn't want to shoot either one of those so I passed. I am hunting a Bronze/Copper colored Longbeard that is in the same bottom. I have killed plenty in the 9-12+ inch beards. Hope these will survive this season.
Have a good one and May God bless, Bo
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I enjoy hunting for a mature long beard so give the Jakes a pass, same with deer hunting and letting the younger bucks walk.
I am a recent convert to turkey hunting and had no issues shooting a jake my first couple of years and have no regrets. Now I see them more like a deer hunting equivalent of a fork horned buck. I no longer shoot small deer so passing on a jake is logical.
One of the most memorable hunts I had was a Tom that had a 3 inch beard, weighed 23 pounds, 1 1/4 inch spurs. It took me 3 hours to get him, about 10 set-ups covering about a quarter mile. He gobbled about 10 times total. When I walked up to him, I noticed his beard was blonde and curled at the tips. Beard rot I was told. Moral of the story here, short beard, but in my top 5 trophies that I can remember. This guy was extremely smart. I pass on Jake's, but when it comes to Tom's, I judge a trophy by the quality of the hunt, not the length of his beard.....
No jakes for me, period. As far as mature gobblers go, it has as much to do with the hunt than it does beard size. I'd rather kill a two year old with a 9" beard who gave me fits than to kill a four year old with a 12" beard who just happened by.
Long beards and spurs are nice, but turkeys don't really fit into the trophy hunting category, thank God. It's more about the experience, manner of taking and especially calling. We closely interact with turkeys in the field. Turkeys can develop a personality in the hunter's mind through what some refer to as "a game" that is played back and forth. This aspect, interaction, is unique and very different than other forms of hunting. It is the main appeal for most seasoned turkey hunters. This experience is the turkey hunter's trophy.
With turkey hunting, hunt for the experience, never for just a dead turkey or the length of his beard or spurs. Particularly on private land, I'd pass on a gobbler that just happend to silently walk by, because I know that he could provide me with an experience of a lifetime tomorrow.
Ropes and daggers are cool, but I'll take a beardless, spurless gobbler that gobbles and drums just out of sight over a "trophy" that I came upon by happenstance any day of the week.
Trophy hunting turkeys, as Forrest Gump said, is like "a box of chocolates". Most often, you don't really know what you get until you have bit into them,...or like in turkey hunting, you don't know what you shot until you walk up and take a look. Of course, there are exceptions to that when hunting under certain conditions, but for a lot of us, those conditions are rare and are not at all constant.
Again, a lot of us turkey hunters judge trophy characteristics based on a gobbler's spurs, which generally correlate to age, but often cannot be seen on a bird "on the hoof". Not only that, but like trophy hunting big game, genetics very often come into play. Because of that complication, we often make judgements based on a turkeys behavior, either in how he acts around other turkeys, or in how difficult he turns out to be in coming to our calls. I have found both of those factors to be pretty "iffy".
I have killed gobblers that I would have sworn were old, dominant warriors, based on their behavior, only to find out they were two-year-olds. I have also passed on gobblers that I thought were two-year-olds only to have another person in our group kill those birds and come to find out they actually fit into the old warrior category with exceptional spurs even though they exhibited behavior and characteristics (beard thickness/length) that would suggest a submissive two-year-old bird.
I suppose the analogy I would make in comparing 'trophy hunting" for turkeys is like judging a big game animal without being able to see its antlers/horns. You might think you got a big'un only to walk up and find out "it weren't". Ground shrinkage is a bi*ch! ;D
Regardless of the beards or spurs, i will take the experience and hunt. What is a trophy? In my opinion a trophy is in the eyes of the one pulling the trigger. A person's age, health / handicap can all play a part in what decisions he makes in hunting / killing his gobbler. So what is a trophy, that's for you to decide not myself or someone else to decide... IMO....
One of my favorite parts of turkey hunting is that "trophy hunting" doesn't really have much of a place in my version of it. You enjoy the hunt and then if you're lucky enough to take a tom, you get to check out his beard and spurs. There's no "deer shaming" that is ever so present in the whitetail hunting world. In the birds I have killed, I have never once thought, "man I don't think his beard is long enough" or "I hope his spurs are at least an inch" before I pulled the trigger. A tom is a tom is a tom. If he's giving up his life in this "game", he is certainly worthy of trophy status no matter what his stats are.
Quote from: GobbleNut on April 06, 2023, 10:03:06 AM
Trophy hunting turkeys, as Forrest Gump said, is like "a box of chocolates". Most often, you don't really know what you get until you have bit into them,...or like in turkey hunting, you don't know what you shot until you walk up and take a look. Of course, there are exceptions to that when hunting under certain conditions, but for a lot of us, those conditions are rare and are not at all constant.
Again, a lot of us turkey hunters judge trophy characteristics based on a gobbler's spurs, which generally correlate to age, but often cannot be seen on a bird "on the hoof". Not only that, but like trophy hunting big game, genetics very often come into play. Because of that complication, we often make judgements based on a turkeys behavior, either in how he acts around other turkeys, or in how difficult he turns out to be in coming to our calls. I have found both of those factors to be pretty "iffy".
I have killed gobblers that I would have sworn were old, dominant warriors, based on their behavior, only to find out they were two-year-olds. I have also passed on gobblers that I thought were two-year-olds only to have another person in our group kill those birds and come to find out they actually fit into the old warrior category with exceptional spurs even though they exhibited behavior and characteristics (beard thickness/length) that would suggest a submissive two-year-old bird.
I suppose the analogy I would make in comparing 'trophy hunting" for turkeys is like judging a big game animal without being able to see its antlers/horns. You might think you got a big'un only to walk up and find out "it weren't". Ground shrinkage is a bi*ch! ;D
Amen ...I leave it up to the individual to decide what he or she defines as a trophy ... The trophy could be all about the hunt/experience ...IMO
The last couple seasons I have passed on a few birds. I passed on a group of 3 two years ago because when they showed up it had come a downpour and they looked like wet rats. Wet turkeys aren't appealing to me so I let them go. I've also passed on some 2 year olds knowing that there were bigger birds in the area. Now sometimes this method has backfired as sometimes the birds I let go I don't ever see again. But that's the chance you take.
To me the best experience is everything up to the point before I pull the trigger. Don't get me wrong-I like to watch one flop-but it's not as important as it was when I was younger. I feel a bit of sadness because I know this is one bird I won't have the chance to hunt again.
In Mississippi, it's against our Game & Fish laws to kill a gobbler with a beard under 6 inches. That protects a lot of younger birds and helps our flocks increase.
Quote from: runngun on April 06, 2023, 01:29:53 AM
I just passed up 2 Gobblers yesterday morning. I had 2 cone into my calls and they had 8 inch or so beard, at less than 10 steps. I just didn't want to shoot either one of those so I passed. I am hunting a Bronze/Copper colored Longbeard that is in the same bottom. I have killed plenty in the 9-12+ inch beards. Hope these will survive this season.
Have a good one and May God bless, Bo
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Interesting, I'm hunting a old gobbler we call big brown, he's hen colored and tough as nails to get in range. Last year I passed 3 longbeards trying to get him down. Never seen a tom that color in all my years of chasing these things all over the country.
Quote from: jumiss on April 06, 2023, 10:27:37 AM
In Mississippi, it's against our Game & Fish laws to kill a gobbler with a beard under 6 inches. That protects a lot of younger birds and helps our flocks increase.
Many people hunting in MS miss the qualifier of 1 adult gobbler or 1 gobbler w/ at least a 6 inch beard. The actual regulations are below. Common mistake.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230406/0472ca9883b7d548e89eb1ee5efef859.jpg)
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The non trophy aspect of turkeys is one of my favorite parts. The hunt quality is based on pre trigger pull, I've never told a turkey story and been asked "yeah but what'd he score" or "he needed another year to grow those spurs out to full potential". Gobbling, drumming, strutting the game itself is what matters
I have passed on gobblers that didnt gobble or strut usually only if it's when I'm on my last tag of the season and I want to save it for a bird that's hot rather than one that walked by me and would end my season.
I'd also ask what metric even makes a turkey a trophy, his beard, spurs, weight? All 3? Multiple beards is just a genetic abnormality and has nothing to do with his maturity but people sure love seeing them on birds they shot
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I once read that a turkeys beard would grow an average of 5" a year. In my thought process, that would mean a 3 year old turkey would have a 15" beard. A four year old....20" beard.
I have only heard of one beard 15" inches "Or So". And it was a gag on a friend of mine that is so gullible its not funny. Very obvious in pic it was two beards.
Point being, trophy status of a turkey to me is left up to the hunter. I have had some awesome hunts that ended with a Jake. I have no issue with shooting a Jake at all. If it makes the hunter happy and is legal, no problem with me.
No spikes for you, fine by me. Spike for me, fine by me. Enjoy your hunt.
I do not shoot jakes but other than that it depends I guess. Last year I went after one turkey only and had a lot of fun with that, I passed up at least 10 shots on turkey longbeards and one jake but did not get a clean shot on him. If I see him again this year it will be the same, I really like his color. The one in the back, so pretty, never seen one that color before. Sorry for bad photo, just wanted to show the color off.
(https://i.imgur.com/YqehN4Cl.jpg)
I'm 41 and I've been hunting deer since I was 13 and turkey since I was 20. I have only really gotten "serious" about hunting within the last 10 years or so. I kinda the same about both deer and turkey; I'll let the yearlings and Jake's walk, but if a 2.5+yo gets my heart pumping I'm probably gonna let it fly lol.
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Jake's are safe in my world, always will be.
A lot depends on where and when I'm hunting as to if an adult gobbler gets a pass or not. We had one obviously smaller gobbler around the lease a few years ago. He had a distinct crook in his beard a couple inches from the tip, so we knew which bird we were looking at whenever he showed up. He also had a death wish, as all 3 of us called him in at least twice each. A young guest ended up taking him out.
On smaller properties where gobblers are likely to cross several properties, if he's got a full fan and a decent beard, he's going down.
I killed one 20 years ago on the last day of the season that had a full fan and a stubby beard from beard rot. I still had a tag left and he came to within 11 yards. I had been holding out for one of the older birds, but he played the game right and I was happy to tag out.
Jim
Shooting or not shooting a jake, is not a conservation act... It is more of an issue of challenge.
I have shot some jakes, but currently, I would prefer not to... My kid's certainly will if they go. So will a guest if he/she wants.
Shot one on purpose a few years back when I took mine and a buddy's kid as observers... Long morning, and he came struttin' in, there eyes wide, and he went home with us.
Last year I shot one on accident (last day of the season)... Two toms coming in hard, and I had eyes one them, looked like twins... Thick cover, and I lose them for a bit, and they pop their heads up about 15 yards away in some thick cover... I take the best shot, and they both fly off with beards visible (almost took a shot at them in the air, cause I was sure I put pellets into one)... No way I missed, and I run over to watch them hit the ground and run off unharmed... Scratching my head with disappointment and confusion, I walk back to where I shot to look for feathers, and there is a dead bird on the ground... Third one I did not see was a jake. Somewhat relieved I did not miss, but a bit disappointed to end the season with a jake, I had to laugh... Good eating bird with a now funny/pleasant memory.
Quote from: TauntoHawk on April 06, 2023, 03:17:38 PM
The non trophy aspect of turkeys is one of my favorite parts. The hunt quality is based on pre trigger pull, I've never told a turkey story and been asked "yeah but what'd he score" or "he needed another year to grow those spurs out to full potential". Gobbling, drumming, strutting the game itself is what matters
This right here. Those memorable hunts when it's you against the bird are what gets me pumped up each year. It's about searching for the next great experience. Post-trigger pull is one of the most anti-climatic moments I've experienced. I don't pass on an easy kill if it's a mature bird, and I've passed on jakes and mature toms that don't satisfy my sense of what I consider a nice bird. Could have killed one dominant, mature gobbler several times last season, but passed on him because his beard had rotted off. Jakes are more aggravating to me than exciting. Give me quality gobbler that gives a good chase and I'm very satisfied.
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I am a bit of an oddball, I guess. With deer, I don't really care. I hunt them to eat them first and foremost. I hunt pretty basic. No bait, no trail cameras. I figure if I beat them, then I earned them. Doesn't mean I kill every buck that walks by. It just depends on my mood, how many tags I have, and what the freezer looks like.
Turkeys, on the other hand, I hunt for fun first and meat second. Don't get me wrong, they are delicious, but I am after the experience and the chess match first. Jakes don't thrill me. They are fun to watch and mess with, but I give them a pass. If I am guiding for someone and it gives them a thrill, then I am all for them killing one if legal. It's been my experience that after the first one, most never kill another jake.
I would venture to guess guys on private are more likely to hold out for a better bird. The guys hunting public not so much.
Quote from: Paulmyr on April 07, 2023, 06:00:10 PM
I would venture to guess guys on private are more likely to hold out for a better bird. The guys hunting public not so much.
I'd say that's spot on
A trophy is what you make of it. It might be a Jake for your first bird or a long beard if you are experienced.
For me, taking an adult gobbler is trophy worthy accomplishment. Beard size is not an indicator of age of a turkey. I admire bigger spurs and a heavy in weight bird.
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Quote from: Paulmyr on April 07, 2023, 06:00:10 PM
I would venture to guess guys on private are more likely to hold out for a better bird. The guys hunting public not so much.
I somewhat agree... I think it depends on opportunity. If I hunted two years without seeing a turkey and a jake walks in, he is gettin' it (private or public)!
I have hunted some really good public grounds, and some really poor private...
I thank god that turkey hunting isn't a game of inches like deer hunting has become, though some try to make it that way. The trophy of turkey hunting is the sun coming up, hearing the whippoorwills, hearing the first gobble of the morning, and the feeling that comes over you of being home, where you belong. The experience of all that and using your knowledge and woodmanship, coupled with your calling ability and the ability to think 3 steps ahead of the turkey and then to fool the wariest of all the animals in the woods is the trophy. I don't care if he's 14 pounds with a 11" beard or 24 pounds with a 3" beard and knubs for spurs. If I fool him, in his own home, by getting in his head so well that he reversed the natural order of his breeding system to come find me, there's my trophy. The trigger pull and his measurements are the period on the sentence, to me.
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Well put Scott!
It's more about spending time with friends and working birds for me. I'm enjoying calling birds for other people as much as I do for myself. I'm always chasing toms but I'll kill a jake in the fall. Years ago I'd take a fall hen but haven't in a while since numbers started trending down in some places I hunt.
Yeah, we'll put Scott. I'll take it one step further. For me spring turkey hunting is like my church so to speak. Just being there is enough. All my troubles fade away and I'm at peace. The harvest, if it happens, is just icing on the cake.
Hunting should always be about the experience. Unfortunately, we humans are famous for screwing things up. Something inherently fun suddenly becomes a competition. A bird harvested on the wrong side of an imaginary line in the sand becomes somehow less desirable than one killed a few miles up the road. The idea that a bird with a 10 inch beard and 1 1/4 inch spurs is somehow "better" than one that, in all other aspects, is identical, including the events of the hunt leading up to the shot, has an 8 inch beard and 1 inch spurs, is, if you think about it for a moment, totally absurd.
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Had an experience today that made me evaluate a "trophy" experience...
Spent over an hour working in 2 jakes (that got a pass)... Walked a ways to another ridge (downhill, then back up), and called in a bird that was hammering away... He hung up at 70 yards for about an hour. Could not make out a beard, but he would periscope his head up, and bring it down to gobble. I could see him, and knew he could see me, so I dared not call or move.
My face was itching something fierce, and some sort of insect landed and was crawling on my neck. And I was thinkin' "This better not be a jake."
Then a second bird came in hard and fast, and there was a short confrontation... Bird that I had been holding came past me, and he was a jake! But the bird that ran him off was not...
Took some rubber of my soles today... Made some good decisions, and had to use some patience... It was certainly not the biggest bird I have ever killed, not even this season... But it was the most exciting bird I killed this season, and I as dam happy!
As ScottTaulbee, it is the experience that adds to the value of the hunt. Any bird that makes you feel like a 12 year old that just won a new bike is a trophy!
Well said Marc
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