About to order my first tube & curious if most of you prefer a lip stop or no lip stop. Any advantages or disadvantages to either?
Always get the best advice from the OG's.
I did search, but couldn't find a good break down or explanation to either.
Thanks!
I prefer a lipstop , it's like a Sweet spot on a pot call I go right to it , at the beginning I when I first get it I tune it up
Lots of advantages and zero disadvantages to running a lipstop. Even more advantages if you're just getting started. Main things is it's going to allow you to hold the same place every time, something folks are bad to move around with early on. Also helps build a good seal. Once you've done it long enough it tends not matter so much. I run them the same whether there's a lipstop or not. But regardless there's no real reason not to other than aesthetics (I personally think they look horrible on a lot of wingbones, Tony's turned corks being an exception).
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Are we talking about a tube or trumpet?
Quote from: wyetterp on February 06, 2023, 11:34:15 AM
Quote from: ol bob on February 05, 2023, 11:09:00 AM
Are we talking about a tube or trumpet?
Tubes.
I apologize. I don't know the first thing about tubes. Disregard that earlier post.
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Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on February 06, 2023, 11:41:44 AM
Quote from: wyetterp on February 06, 2023, 11:34:15 AM
Quote from: ol bob on February 05, 2023, 11:09:00 AM
Are we talking about a tube or trumpet?
Tubes.
I apologize. I don't know the first thing about tubes. Disregard that earlier post.
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Too late, thought you meant tube calls and already JB welded a big stainless washer onto my ivory call, now what
Quote from: crow on February 06, 2023, 06:25:49 PM
Too late, thought you meant tube calls and already JB welded a big stainless washer onto my ivory call, now what
You can mail it to me and I'll salvage what's left of the ivory.
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Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on February 06, 2023, 06:37:20 PM
Quote from: crow on February 06, 2023, 06:25:49 PM
Too late, thought you meant tube calls and already JB welded a big stainless washer onto my ivory call, now what
You can mail it to me and I'll salvage what's left of the ivory.
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well I'm torn between making it into a bunch of ivory toothpicks like in the old westerns or a salt shaker, but I could send you a picture
Here's my .02 ...
- It's easier to run one with a lip stop
- Reed placement is more repeatable on one with a lip stop
- You can get more rasp with one that doesn't a lip stop
- Both will call turkeys, just takes practice to be proficient with either
Definitely with a lip stop, set it up about 1/4 to 3/16 and go to town!!! Only way to get it consistent.
Have a good one, Bo
DISREGARD @?/×+×÷/_< I DID THE SAME THING THAT CHESTER DID, I AM TALKING TRUMPET AND WINGBONES
BUT YES ON LIPSTOP ON TUBE AS WELL
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Quote from: Jbird22 on February 07, 2023, 01:54:39 PM
Here's my .02 ...
- It's easier to run one with a lip stop
- Reed placement is more repeatable on one with a lip stop
- You can get more rasp with one that doesn't a lip stop
- Both will call turkeys, just takes practice to be proficient with either
That's what I needed to hear. My hen in my head is always an old raspy one & was wondering. I just saw a couple people mentioning having more vocal control without the lip stop (on a tube, lol).
Before I order my first one I'm trying to learn if some prefer the stop as most makers have one. Seems like it would be better to just learn on one without from the start.
I didn't really want to buy two at the beginning just to figure it out.
The way OG has an effect on me though, I have a feeling I'll end up with a handful.
:z-twocents: I like to call it a lip rest on a tube and a lip stop on a yelper. Cuts down on misunderstandings. Have you looked at the bevels on the lip rests that Scpossum makes? Gives you better access to the latex with the ease of a lip rest still. It's only smart to educate yourself before you buy but the only way to know for sure what works for you is to try them. The best tubes are not expensive and before I would compromise my sound quality with geese or turkeys I would consider having both. I wouldn't advise someone just starting on a trumpet to not use a lip stop. If you are just learning to use a tube call I would also advise starting with a lip rest. My thoughts and a couple of bucks will get you a cup of coffee at better restaurants.
Quote from: tal on February 08, 2023, 09:07:45 AM
:z-twocents: I like to call it a lip rest on a tube and a lip stop on a yelper. Cuts down on misunderstandings. Have you looked at the bevels on the lip rests that Scpossum makes? Gives you better access to the latex with the ease of a lip rest still. It's only smart to educate yourself before you buy but the only way to know for sure what works for you is to try them. The best tubes are not expensive and before I would compromise my sound quality with geese or turkeys I would consider having both. I wouldn't advise someone just starting on a trumpet to not use a lip stop. If you are just learning to use a tube call I would also advise starting with a lip rest. My thoughts and a couple of bucks will get you a cup of coffee at better restaurants.
Glad i took your advice in ordering my tube from Scpossum ...Guys best to listen to tal his tube knowledge is some of the best ... If you could only see his tube collection...omg....
wyetterp, I also highly recommend ordering one from Tom Osmer (scpossum on here, Possum Fork Turkey Calls on FB). He makes an awesome tube! Once you're proficient with one that has a lip stop, it will be easier to learn one that doesn't have one.
As for the discussion on the lip stop terminology, isn't this the "Tube Calls" sub forum? ;D
I listened to Mark Prudhomme run a tube at Unicoi. I'm going to try a tube without a lip rest......LOL!!!
:TooFunny: Isn't that the truth Marvin.
Quote from: Jbird22 on February 08, 2023, 10:26:34 AM
wyetterp, I also highly recommend ordering one from Tom Osmer (scpossum on here, Possum Fork Turkey Calls on FB). He makes an awesome tube! Once you're proficient with one that has a lip stop, it will be easier to learn one that doesn't have one.
As for the discussion on the lip stop terminology, isn't this the "Tube Calls" sub forum? ;D
I will check it out for sure. Trying to learn more before I start just randomly ordering.
Quote from: tal on February 08, 2023, 09:07:45 AM
:z-twocents: I like to call it a lip rest on a tube and a lip stop on a yelper. Cuts down on misunderstandings. Have you looked at the bevels on the lip rests that Scpossum makes? Gives you better access to the latex with the ease of a lip rest still. It's only smart to educate yourself before you buy but the only way to know for sure what works for you is to try them. The best tubes are not expensive and before I would compromise my sound quality with geese or turkeys I would consider having both. I wouldn't advise someone just starting on a trumpet to not use a lip stop. If you are just learning to use a tube call I would also advise starting with a lip rest. My thoughts and a couple of bucks will get you a cup of coffee at better restaurants.
Still learning so lots of good info being given. Just recently started hearing about the bevels & going to research that too. Being a SC guy I have been hearing good things about scpossum. I see some with a wide bore open end & a reduced restricted end.
Can someone help educate me on that too?
Quote from: Jbird22 on February 08, 2023, 10:26:34 AM
wyetterp, I also highly recommend ordering one from Tom Osmer (scpossum on here, Possum Fork Turkey Calls on FB). He makes an awesome tube! Once you're proficient with one that has a lip stop, it will be easier to learn one that doesn't have one.
As for the discussion on the lip stop terminology, isn't this the "Tube Calls" sub forum? ;D
I'll add him to the list to look at. Seeing a lot of good makers now & finding more & more.
Staring to compile & checklist of what style I may want to order with one or two at least. Still learning a lot I didn't realize with the build detail I need to figure out. I appreciate the input.
A hard part of trying to figure this out is hating facebook. It's so hard to get compiled info & descriptions without having to waste way too much time digging through fb & random posts & pics.
Still in the rabbit hole though trying to learn the different designs & why. I realized they are vastly different & it's obvious a tube isn't just a tube.
Guess I also need to be educated on the types & thickness of the latex & what the difference is.
I don't do Facebook, never have and hopefully never will. There's plenty of quality info to be found without looking there.
Back to tubes, there are baffled (smaller diameter on the end) and unbaffled (not restricted at all). There's not that much difference in playability between them IMO.
Latex thickness preference will vary between people. Try a few different ones and you'll find what suits you.
Frankly, IMHO getting the crinkle in the latex at the right spot and getting the latex tension right is just as important as the thickness of the latex you use. I recommend you start at .004.
Quote from: Jbird22 on February 10, 2023, 06:16:43 PM
I don't do Facebook, never have and hopefully never will. There's plenty of quality info to be found without looking there.
Back to tubes, there are baffled (smaller diameter on the end) and unbaffled (not restricted at all). There's not that much difference in playability between them IMO.
Latex thickness preference will vary between people. Try a few different ones and you'll find what suits you.
Okay gotcha about the baffled vs unbaffled. Figured there would be a noticeable difference. Guessing it's a sound/tone thing then.
Quote from: Tarheel on February 10, 2023, 08:00:54 PM
Frankly, IMHO getting the crinkle in the latex at the right spot and getting the latex tension right is just as important as the thickness of the latex you use. I recommend you start at .004.
Whats the "crinkle"? Sorry trying to piece this all together.
When you install your latex on the tube, you have to position and adjust the latex....and adjust the tension of the latex. Many people who play a tube well will pull the latex at the top of the call opening relaxing the tension enough that there will be several crinkles in the latex surface. The point of doing this increases rasp and lowers the pitch....and reduces the squeal from higher tension.
Quote from: Tarheel on February 10, 2023, 11:23:27 PM
When you install your latex on the tube, you have to position and adjust the latex....and adjust the tension of the latex. Many people who play a tube well will pull the latex at the top of the call opening relaxing the tension enough that there will be several crinkles in the latex surface. The point of doing this increases rasp and lowers the pitch....and reduces the squeal from higher tension.
Very helpful. Thanks!
Learning how to adjust and tension the latex for you on a tube call is a key factor in the realism you are able to achieve. IMHO the tube is more difficult to master than the trumpet. There's a lot of trial and error adjusting and figuring out what to do and what not to do with a tube call....that's just the nature of the learning curve. After listening to Mark Prudhomme run a tube call at Unicoi, I quickly realized how far and how much work yet I have to do to play a tube call as well as I would like to be able. There's no easy secret to playing a tube call well. You have to do the work. That doesn't mean those of us with lesser skills playing a tube call can't kill turkeys....we can, but it sure would be nice to be able to obtain that degree of skill.
Quote from: Tarheel on February 10, 2023, 10:07:55 AM
I listened to Mark Prudhomme run a tube at Unicoi. I'm going to try a tube without a lip rest......LOL!!!
I don't see anything wrong with that for sure. Really, listening to him is why I want to know more about tubes & the no lip stop. That man is a walking rosetta stone of turkey language.
Quote from: Tarheel on February 11, 2023, 10:07:43 AM
Learning how to adjust and tension the latex for you on a tube call is a key factor in the realism you are able to achieve. IMHO the tube is more difficult to master than the trumpet. There's a lot of trial and error adjusting and figuring out what to do and what not to do with a tube call....that's just the nature of the learning curve. After listening to Mark Prudhomme run a tube call at Unicoi, I quickly realized how far and how much work yet I have to do to play a tube call as well as I would like to be able. There's no easy secret to playing a tube call well. You have to do the work. That doesn't mean those of us with lesser skills playing a tube call can't kill turkeys....we can, but it sure would be nice to be able to obtain that degree of skill.
There's a lot of good knowledge there I'm trying to learn. That made a handful of things click for me. Thanks!
My mind always has to understand the little details that add up for me to figure out what I'm doing. I'm sure I'm over thinking a lot about tubes.....but I have figured out the shapes, latex, stops or no stops, & material really affects what produces real turkey vs close.
Y'all are filling in a lot of me curiosity. Pretty close to ordered a small variety to see what works for me & what works that the turkeys wanna hear.
When you say lipstop do you mean when it has that kind of curved indent in the part your lips would go against? I had always called them a bevel but I guess that is not the right term. Thanks and best of luck with whatever you end up getting.
Is there another call outside the Prudhomme that does not have a lip stop?
Quote from: Sir-diealot on February 12, 2023, 08:46:37 AM
When you say lipstop do you mean when it has that kind of curved indent in the part your lips would go against? I had always called them a bevel but I guess that is not the right term. Thanks and best of luck with whatever you end up getting.
Yes. I might have it wrong myself. Thanks for the support. Hopefully I don't get too addicted to those like everything else I see in OG. Pretty soon I'm going to have to do a thread on what cabinets to use to store all the stuff. Wife isn't on to me yet though!!!
Quote from: davisd9 on February 12, 2023, 09:21:21 AM
Is there another call outside the Prudhomme that does not have a lip stop?
I've been seeing a handful of makers that offer them. I'd guess they'd make 'em however you prefer. Probably less work & easier to turn out. At least I'd guess.
Quote from: Tarheel on February 11, 2023, 10:07:43 AM
After listening to Mark Prudhomme run a tube call at Unicoi, I quickly realized how far and how much work yet I have to do to play a tube call as well as I would like to be able. There's no easy secret to playing a tube call well. You have to do the work. That doesn't mean those of us with lesser skills playing a tube call can't kill turkeys....we can, but it sure would be nice to be able to obtain that degree of skill.
As entertaining as it is to listen to Mark run ANYTHING, it's a tough goal to obtain. I believe he could win the Grand Nationals with a blade of grass, lol.
Quote from: EZ on February 22, 2023, 09:20:40 AM
Quote from: Tarheel on February 11, 2023, 10:07:43 AM
After listening to Mark Prudhomme run a tube call at Unicoi, I quickly realized how far and how much work yet I have to do to play a tube call as well as I would like to be able. There's no easy secret to playing a tube call well. You have to do the work. That doesn't mean those of us with lesser skills playing a tube call can't kill turkeys....we can, but it sure would be nice to be able to obtain that degree of skill.
As entertaining as it is to listen to Mark run ANYTHING, it's a tough goal to obtain. I believe he could win the Grand Nationals with a blade of grass, lol.
You are correct, Mark is phenomenal with about any call he runs.
Quote from: Scpossum on February 22, 2023, 11:41:25 PM
You are correct, Mark is phenomenal with about any call he runs.
[/quote]
Glad to see you commenting!
Do you mind sharing your opinion on it? You know these things in & out. I hear nothing but good things about you. I'd appreciate the input.
Thanks!
This is all my opinion because everyone runs calls differently and has different requirements. A tube is a tool and an instrument. You play the one you hear the turkey in and is easiest for YOU to get a sound. There are pros and cons with all styles. I prefer a lipstop. I can and have used an open tube, but I use a lipstop because it is a spot to start from and during a hunt the easiest for me to consistently (think call on demand) start from. Someone else might feel comfortable with an open tube in the same way. You can get a lot of different sounds with an open tube, but for me it is a different method to running it. Both styles of calls can be used at different angles, different latex thicknesses and different air to get different tones and pitches. Each will yelp, kee kee, gobble, jake yelp, fighting purr, flydown, etc. it comes down to what you like. Some run an open bell tube and some run a baffle. Some like to put their fingers up in the call and some like to use a baffle in different ways.
I am used to running calls with a 7/8" -15/16" ID with a lipstop bevel. If it is over that I tend to have to reposition my lips and muscle memory goes out the window. I use .003 & .004 latex. Some use up to .006 and more with good results. I used to use a heavier latex, but for my air, control, and way of playing I will choose the .003. I went to the bevel a few years ago after a well known member here requested it. I liked being able to get under the latex with my air (like a no-lipstop tube) and it became a standard. The baffle originated for me when I duplicated an old snuff can caller. I was looking for a way to quiet the call down, but still maintain the sound it produced. I like it because I can put material in the call and it stays there. I think it also makes one handed operation a little easier. But, at theend of the day it is all about what works for YOU. If you can run the call and sound like a turkey then it works for you. This is why we have so many turkey calls and why we enjoy collecting them so much.
Last thing. You have to practice. Just like the piano, saxophone, guitar, etc. it is an instrument. But, if all you can do is cluck on it -you just increased your aresanal. I killed my first bird with a tube by primarily clucking on it. I had it two days when I hunted it and that was about all I could do. Hope this helps some.
There is no "one best". Remember the tool part. What do you want to use it for? Gobbling requires a different latex and stretch. Yelping requires a different latex and stretch. Most tube call players will carry a couple of tubes. One set for yelping and one for gobbling and jake/gobbler yelps. Some calls sound better, some sound worse. Some you pick up over time, some you can get it a little quicker. Those you pick up on quicker are usually the ones that fit you. The main thing with a tube starting out is practice, practice, practice and make up your mind you will succeed.
If you want to talk on the phone, I am usually available in the evenings.
Thanks ScPossum! That helps me understand a lot more.
Thank you for the advice.
Im opposite of scopossum,I like a bigger opening. 7/8 & alike is just too small for me to work the call. I have one of his & its a really nice call but I struggle w it. I prefer a morgan type tube. Like was said, we are all diff. Best advice was practice alot. Mike
I have seen things about people running them with the reed coming from bottom to top putting the top lip against it instead of the bottom lip, do any of you run it like that and if so what are the benefit/drawbacks? Thanks.