Hello all I have decided that my 12 gauge is just too hard on my shoulder
and am wanting to go with a smaller gauge to give my shoulder some relief.
I am not sure what to decide on what to get a 20, 28 or 410 gauge. I do want
it to be a pump or semi auto. I will use TSS so any of these three gauges
would work I think. I would like to hear from all you turkey hunters
out there on your thoughts on what gauge you would choose if were to use TSS.
Please no don't bash me for using TSS. Also if you have a certain gun in mind
please mention it I am kind of partial to the Remington 870.
20ga has the most ammo options and typically the most ammo available. I'd suggest an auto as that would further reduce recoil.
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Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on April 12, 2022, 04:58:51 PM
20ga has the most ammo options and typically the most ammo available. I'd suggest an auto as that would further reduce recoil.
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Factual information!
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Youth model 870 in 20 gauge is a breeze to carry. Options to rig it out are inexpensive. With a Trulock or Sumtoy choke, you can get crazy good numbers. I rigged one up for my daughter and will pass it on to her son one day.
I have a Weatherby SA 459 Turkey and I like it. Breeze to carry, shoots well, needs a Trulock or Sumtoy though-factory choke is not too impressive. Not crazy about the ghost ring sight, but I have never missed with it. If you are red dot inclined it has a rail.
I really want a double trigger OU in 20 that has screw in chokes, but it has been tough to find.
Recoil is a simple equation involving the the weight of the gun and the weight and speed of the payload.
As Chester points out, an auto will reduce flat recoil, a gas operated auto even more so.
A heavy gun will recoil less than a light gun, and if you pack as much payload into a a 20 as you would a 12, it will recoil the same. The 1.5 and 1 5.8 ounce TSS loads at 1100/1000 FPS in 20 are pretty soft shooters.
If you are shooting a 12 and 3.5s with heavy payload at higher velocity, it's gonna kick.
A Rem 10 ga is actually a very light shooting gun, but you gotta be willing to carry a lot of weight around.
You don't say where you hunt, so be sure to check state regs as some states limit the smallest bore you can take afield.
I started using TSS years ago with a Remington 870 20ga. It is flat out a turkey thumper.. I have used a Benelli Montefeltro 20ga for a couple seasons, but always seem to go back to the trusty 870. It is a youth model with a 21" barrel. Parts and accessories are readily available. Good luck, I also think a Remington 870in 28ga would be nice..
The gas-operated Winchester Super X4 in 20 gauge is a top shelf gun and will be very easy on the shoulder.
M2!
A Mossberg in anything kicks. They are an exception to the weight, load, speed, recoil calculation.
Lots of good guns out there in any of the sub gauges. Look at options and price if an issue. This may start to narrow it down for you.
You left a lot of room in your ask. To make my point: 2700$ SB3 custom to a Savage 301 at 300$. Depends on you. Lots of good guns on both ends of that.
I will agree the 20g seems to be easy to buy ammo for. Lots of different guys selling shells and someone more than likely will have shells in stock.
Franchi Affinity 3 20 gauge. Already comes drilled and tapped. Put a Sumtoy mount and a fastfire 3. Get a Sumtoy .580 and shoot Foxtrot Crusher 9's. This is a hard to beat combo.
Or if you want to spend a little extra an m2 20 gauge with a Sumtoy .562 is lethal. My buddy shoot burgess creek 9's out of it with great results. You'll have to get it drilled and tapped.
Quote from: USMC0331 on April 12, 2022, 05:15:41 PM
Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on April 12, 2022, 04:58:51 PM
20ga has the most ammo options and typically the most ammo available. I'd suggest an auto as that would further reduce recoil.
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Factual information!
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x2 ammo available is huge. Plus there are way more options in guns in a 20 than 28 or 410. Another thing to consider is how much hiking and time does you gun hang on your shoulder. While a lighter gun will have more kick it is also easier to carry. My current turkey gun is so heavy that I get sore carrying it. The recoil does not bother me.
If you travel, you may want to check the states you go to, or are thinking about going to, and make sure 28ga and 410 are legal to use. Might impact your decision on what gauge to get.
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Franchi Affinity has already been mentioned and it's a solid choice.
Picked up a stoeger 3020 about month and half ago.
2 lbs lighter than the 12 gauge super mag. Gotta feeling I'm gonna like carrying this gun around.
Quote from: Yoder409 on April 12, 2022, 07:43:56 PM
The gas-operated Winchester Super X4 in 20 gauge is a top shelf gun and will be very easy on the shoulder.
This would be my choice for a 20. Another that's comparable and little less expensive is Mossberg SA-20
Three 20 gauges that come to mind, for me I purchased a Rem 1187 youth compact with a 21" barrel, Winchester sx4 longbeard with a 24" barrel and a Weatherby sa-459 with a 22" and the pistol grip. I like all 3 but I think my favorite would be the Weatherby, if you can find one, as I believe they discontinued them a year or so ago.
The 20 gauge is going to be hard to beat for what you are looking for in a new gun. Enjoy the search.
You would be surprised how hard a lightweight 20 gauge can actually kick , I have a youth 20 gauge pump that by far recoils much harder than my Remington or Ithaca 10 gauges , gas autos have a way of soaking up recoil
You don't always have to use those 3.5 or 3 inch shells ..you can go lighter with the payload
Beretta A300 20 gauge with kick-off stock. Think they are around $800. It's probably going to be
the least recoil in a usable gun. Weight and recoil are subjective for sure. I just can't wrap my head around thinking a 7 lb gun as being too heavy.
Quote from: the Ward on April 13, 2022, 10:58:45 AM
Beretta A300 20 gauge with kick-off stock. Think they are around $800. It's probably going to be
the least recoil in a usable gun. Weight and recoil are subjective for sure. I just can't wrap my head around thinking a 7 lb gun as being too heavy.
Hold at the ready to fire position for 10 mins waiting for a shot with no support that 7 lbs feels like 100. I'm lucky if I can make it a couple mins before arms start burning and shaking.
Quote from: Paulmyr on April 13, 2022, 01:32:41 PM
Quote from: the Ward on April 13, 2022, 10:58:45 AM
Probably would be easier to learn when to raise the gun than hold it for ten minutes at ready.
Beretta A300 20 gauge with kick-off stock. Think they are around $800. It's probably going to be
the least recoil in a usable gun. Weight and recoil are subjective for sure. I just can't wrap my head around thinking a 7 lb gun as being too heavy.
Hold at the ready to fire position for 10 mins waiting for a shot with no support that 7 lbs feels like 100. I'm lucky if I can make it a couple mins before arms start burning and shaking.
The softest shooting 20 gauge I've ever handled is a Winchester SX3. The SX4 is out now and said to be a soft shooter too.
Quote from: spaightlabs on April 12, 2022, 05:23:09 PM
Recoil is a simple equation involving the the weight of the gun and the weight and speed of the payload.
As Chester points out, an auto will reduce flat recoil, a gas operated auto even more so.
A heavy gun will recoil less than a light gun, and if you pack as much payload into a a 20 as you would a 12, it will recoil the same. The 1.5 and 1 5.8 ounce TSS loads at 1100/1000 FPS in 20 are pretty soft shooters.
If you are shooting a 12 and 3.5s with heavy payload at higher velocity, it's gonna kick.
A Rem 10 ga is actually a very light shooting gun, but you gotta be willing to carry a lot of weight around.
You don't say where you hunt, so be sure to check state regs as some states limit the smallest bore you can take afield.
Great information there!
Stick with the 20 gauge for a sub-gauge hunting gun though... They are more versatile, and ammunition is far easier to find, and considerably more affordable than other sub-gauges you mentioned.
As far as what type of gun (pump, inertia auto, or gas-operation)... Depends on what you want to reduce... Recoil or weight?
I use a 20 gauge for a number of upland situations, due to carrying less weight, and being able to shoulder the gun quicker... I use a gas-operated gun, as it allows for faster follow-up shots with good recoil reduction, and is still considerably lighter than a 12 gauge.
A light 20 gauge with stout loads can kick every bit as much as a heavier 12 gauge.
An inertia gun will often be lighter in weight than a gas-operated gun, but the gas-operation reduces recoil far better. Inertia guns are easier to clean, and "generally" more reliable than inertia guns though.
The 870 is a light, reliable weapon, but it is a recoil heavy gun.
For turkey hunting, and the prospect of possibly shooting one shell, I am not all that concerned with recoil... Turkey hunting is the perfect scenerio for a pump shotgun. But looking at some of the loads out there, Boss makes a 2 oz 20 ga. load, and there is no way I would shoot that out of a pump, nor would l let either of my kids shoot those loads at all!
Most wing-shooting involves some degree of volume shooting, and I would not shoot a pump for waterfowl or dove with the stout steel loads we are currently shooting.
I shoot m2 20 ga. Outstanding
Then I got tristar 410 ic choke it's crazy good
Quote from: WV Flopper on April 13, 2022, 07:45:57 PM
Quote from: Paulmyr on April 13, 2022, 01:32:41 PM
Quote from: the Ward on April 13, 2022, 10:58:45 AM
Probably would be easier to learn when to raise the gun than hold it for ten minutes at ready.
Beretta A300 20 gauge with kick-off stock. Think they are around $800. It's probably going to be
the least recoil in a usable gun. Weight and recoil are subjective for sure. I just can't wrap my head around thinking a 7 lb gun as being too heavy.
Hold at the ready to fire position for 10 mins waiting for a shot with no support that 7 lbs feels like 100. I'm lucky if I can make it a couple mins before arms start burning and shaking.
Yeah, ok, because after 30 years I'm still learning! Any other hit tips.
Quote from: Paulmyr on April 13, 2022, 09:21:38 PM
Quote from: WV Flopper on April 13, 2022, 07:45:57 PM
Quote from: Paulmyr on April 13, 2022, 01:32:41 PM
Quote from: the Ward on April 13, 2022, 10:58:45 AM
Probably would be easier to learn when to raise the gun than hold it for ten minutes at ready.
Beretta A300 20 gauge with kick-off stock. Think they are around $800. It's probably going to be
the least recoil in a usable gun. Weight and recoil are subjective for sure. I just can't wrap my head around thinking a 7 lb gun as being too heavy.
Hold at the ready to fire position for 10 mins waiting for a shot with no support that 7 lbs feels like 100. I'm lucky if I can make it a couple mins before arms start burning and shaking.
Yeah, ok, because after 30 years I'm still learning! Any other hit tips.
I didn't put the "learn when to lift gun" in my post. Somebody else did when they quoted me.
You make a valid point on gun weight. Can be a bugger for sure holding up a gun waiting for a shot. Been there, done that, not very fun!
I believe "the Ward" added his reply to your quote.
Quote from: the Ward on April 13, 2022, 10:58:45 AM
Beretta A300 20 gauge with kick-off stock. Think they are around $800. It's probably going to be
the least recoil in a usable gun. Weight and recoil are subjective for sure. I just can't wrap my head around thinking a 7 lb gun as being too heavy.
Here is my original post. As you can see there is no "learn to lift gun" line in it.There is also no editing. WV flopper quoted me, so it is likely that he added that line to my post when he quoted me.
Thats like asking what kind of car to get and the only thing you are certain of is you plan to use 93 octane gas ;D! You are going to get every answer under the sun. The best thing to do is see what fits you the best, then narrow down a choke and ammo combo. Good luck.
Quote from: Marc on April 13, 2022, 09:11:40 PM
Quote from: spaightlabs on April 12, 2022, 05:23:09 PM
Most wing-shooting involves some degree of volume shooting, and I would not shoot a pump for waterfowl or dove with the stout steel loads we are currently shooting.
I have only shot pumps and O/U and I have done very high volume of shooting over the course of the season. A well balanced gun, properly shouldered, is not a problem. After 100 rounds of sporting clays, I can feel it though.
For turkey hunting, I think pretty much anything in 20 will lower felt recoil, but there are options that are better. I think the A390 is the lightest felt recoil 20 gauge I have ever shot. Felt like I was shooting a 410 it was so well balanced and smooth. I am not a good person to ask though, as my first semi shotgun was bought in my early 50s.
Quote from: cassga on April 14, 2022, 12:35:39 PM
Thats like asking what kind of car to get and the only thing you are certain of is you plan to use 93 octane gas ;D! You are going to get every answer under the sun. The best thing to do is see what fits you the best, then narrow down a choke and ammo combo. Good luck.
Winna winna, turkey dinna
Thank you everyone for your recommendations , I am for sure I will go with a 20 gauge and want to go with a semi auto that will accept a 3 inch shell if I was to ever decide I wanted to shoot a 3 inch shell.
So now I need to decide what exact gun I should get. it will be only used for turkey hunting so that should help narrow it down some. Does not have to be brand new but I know I want it to have cammo and a reflex sight on it, not sure on the barrel length I should be lookin for and want to have a removable choke so I can
change it if need be.
Any more suggestions ? Thank you !
I recently picked up a Tri star viper g2 turkey. Cerakote and bottomland. 20ga. Pistol grip. Very nice gun and throws a great pattern. It comes with a rail, oversized controls, and a bored out loading port. I put a vortex viper on the rail. Hopefully get to break it in next weekend here in Ohio!
Quote from: bcuda on April 15, 2022, 09:18:50 AM
Thank you everyone for your recommendations , I am for sure I will go with a 20 gauge and want to go with a semi auto that will accept a 3 inch shell if I was to ever decide I wanted to shoot a 3 inch shell.
So now I need to decide what exact gun I should get. it will be only used for turkey hunting so that should help narrow it down some. Does not have to be brand new but I know I want it to have cammo and a reflex sight on it, not sure on the barrel length I should be lookin for and want to have a removable choke so I can
change it if need be.
Any more suggestions ? Thank you !
Cerakote is better than dipped camo...
Personally, I took a spray-can to my parkerized black gun... Easily change colors from duck hunting to turkey hunting. I do not care how the gun looks and the paint can be removed if I wish.
Both the Cerakote and spray-can have less glare/shine than does a dipped coating.
I know the 20 is the best alternative sub gauge due to load availability, etc. I use a Sweet 16 Browning (new model) with a Briley .600 Turkey choke coupled with Apex 7 1/2. It's a 2 3/4 load with 1 5/8 oz of shot 1200 FPS. Patterns great, gun is super light, no kick. It does not have the versatility of the 20, but it's another option for the sub gauge.
Benelli SBE3 in 20 gauge
or an M2
Beretta A400 20 Gauge or 28 gauge, with the Kick-off.
As a matter of fact they have one now where the kick off is on forward on the stock. Not on the butt.
Have a good one
Bo
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Definitely check out the Winchester SX4 line. I have one SX4 and two SX3's and love them. Very reliable and are also gas operated soft shooting guns.
bcuda, when you say that your gun is hard on your shoulder, do you mean from recoil or mass weight when carrying? I've turkey hunted for over 50 years with autoloader, pump, o/u, and now carry a 12ga TC Encore single. It does kick like a mule but it's very sweet to carry which is what you do most of the time with a turkey gun anyway. A 20ga single shooting tss would appear to be a nice compromise of lightweight and efficiency. Good luck this season!
As a wing-shooter, Franchi and Benelli do not fit me (but fit a lot of other people). Light guns that do recoil a bit more than gas-guns...
I am currently shoting a Beretta that I really enjoy for upland, and I shoot it well. I would look at browning, and the Winchester Sx-3 or SX-4 as well... I can't seem to hit water with a Benelli or a Franchi....
go to the store, and pick up the guns, and sight them... See which one fits you best in your price range. A great gun for me, might be a terrible gun for you (and vice versa).
As far as recoil, I have some friends that sent their guns to Rob Roberts and had the forcing cone lengthened and the barrel ported. I think it was about $150. They swear by the reduction in recoil. I personally did not shoot the guns before an after so I do not have any data to support their opinion. If it works as well as they say, however, it will benefit any gun you choose. I am certain you will get a lot of follow up opinions on the validity of their statements.
I have the Benelli M2 20 ga and love it. It is not ported.
rem 870 youth