So here is the Scenario- You drive in to a Public Parking area at 3.40am. You are the 1st Man there.You get your Gear out and on to your hood while enjoying Coffee.You plan to Hike that 1 Mile in to a Huge + Beautiful Field at 4.00am.
You see Headlights very slowly enter the parking area. The Driver then spots your Truck and Parks fast. 3 Men Jump out- ( Utube Group)?? You decide to Hike in early.
Just as you are starting to walk in with your Flashlight which is on now- 1 of the Men approaches with his Flashlight on as well. Meanwhile the 2 other Men are in Fast Mode and Grabbing stuff.
And you hear the Dreaded Questions " or" Statement--. Bob and,I Roosted 3 Gobblers in the Largest Field here about 1 Mile in-- you're not heading that way- Right?!
Or- Where are you heading to Bud? More Small talk ensues for another few minutes-- important minutes to put yourself a good few hundred yards ahead ahead of these Guys- all in their late 20s and early 30s. Meanwhile-- you are on the Wrong side of 60+.
The 2 Guys at the Truck are done. It gets Locked up and one of the young guys is carrying a vest and a Shotgun.
Old Timer- we all are going to hit that Huge Field about 1 mile in. We best get moving. In they go- 3 Flashlights bobbing this way and that.
Being the Nice Guy has Snookered you again..
Ok-- So - for " Safety" reasons should you divulge all your hard won information to a Stranger or " 3" when one of them approaches your Truck at 3.45am. You think to yourself- he will tell a friend and that friend will tell another one..
Or is it better to be ready to walk in Briskly when you see Headlights getting Brighter and nearer to the parking area? To avoid the Question that you know is coming- Where are you going?!
Some will try to " place you" in another area where they know- this 1 Gobbler is always there.
My Brother in Law always had the right answer to this pre Dawn Question or statement-- Where You Going. I am going where the Turkeys Are.
Just seems like especially these last 2 Springs with more out because of the Chinese Virus- that pre dawn question is becoming more common. Sometimes a 3rd Truck pulls in and that Man hears all the information while being silent himself. He just may have learned about a New Hotspot!
So- what you say? Divulge everything for Safety Reasons or " like me"- Walk in Briskly and avoid all conversation ?
If I'm there first, I'll be on my way to the spot, dealing with the aftermath later. That is someone moving in on the gobbler etc. First off, if they come late or come in blind without roosting a bird or whatever I don't want to let them know about the turkeys I've worked for with scouting/listening. If I know someone has moved in on me or I think they are getting too close for safety reasons I pull out. On the flip side, if someone is there first, I will head out to another location. Period. Lots of the guys nowadays dont care about hunter etiquette at all. They will walk on in or ride a 4 wheeler past you regardless of your little parking lot talk. I think of SAFETY first. Not worth a shooting accident.
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Plan on a bad hunt.
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You could mention to them you just came back to your truck because 2 guys in your hunting party "forgot their shells"..........if that doesn't deter them, move on cause it will not be a fun hunt...
I think it's time to throw some lime on this dead horse and leave it lay. "What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and loose his soul". Those words come from a mighty fine book. The reason we get mad at scenarios like this is because we are selfish and self-centered. With that said, the crew in your scenario is the same only to a higher degree. Life is a series of choices everyday and we can choose to be bitter or better. Sure it sucks to see someone be rude and inconsiderate, but that does not mean we return the same attitude. The moment you pulled into the gate you should understand you may need a plan "B". I don't go into bars run by gangs, because I know the consequences are most likely bad for me. Why do we expect public access to be anymore then what it is, a free-for-all.
In your scenario, I would tell the young men my plan and approximate hunting area. I would also ask if they would agree to give me the first 2 hrs in said spot. You'd be surprised how many will agree if you kindly ask. As for keeping secret spots. there are no secret spots on public land, come on. If there's a trail or road that leads to it then people are there. Some spots are too tough for most and that makes them less used, but they are not secret. If the crew heads in ahead of me and just ignores my request, then I don't want to hunt near them. Again, have a plan "B" and even "c", and move on. The other choice is to go ahead and try and find a bird you can work alone. Whatever, make the choice that preserves your happiness as best you can. I don't get up in the morning to go hunting and be mad, I can stay home or go to work and do that. A good day in the woods should be joy in it's self, why do we have to kill a turkey to be happy. Heck, ask the bums if you can go along and watch, I bet they'll end up telling you more secrets then you tell them, that's why they are doing what they do, to get attention and validate themselves....those kind like to talk a lot. It also depends on the size of the area. In a small area I will pull out and in a big one go and do the best I can to find a bird. When I leave, if they were friendly during the talk, I will stick a note on their windshield and leave my cell number. I will simply say good luck and text me how you done, I plan to hunt here again and would appreciate any info you could share, be blessed.
Well said eggshell.
Quote from: eggshell on February 27, 2022, 07:13:15 AM
I think it's time to throw some lime on this dead horse and leave it lay. "What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and loose his soul". Those words come from a mighty fine book. The reason we get mad at scenarios like this is because we are selfish and self-centered. With that said, the crew in your scenario is the same only to a higher degree. Life is a series of choices everyday and we can choose to be bitter or better. Sure it sucks to see someone be rude and inconsiderate, but that does not mean we return the same attitude. The moment you pulled into the gate you should understand you may need a plan "B". I don't go into bars run by gangs, because I know the consequences are most likely bad for me. Why do we expect public access to be anymore then what it is, a free-for-all.
In your scenario, I would tell the young men my plan and approximate hunting area. I would also ask if they would agree to give me the first 2 hrs in said spot. You'd be surprised how many will agree if you kindly ask. As for keeping secret spots. there are no secret spots on public land, come on. If there's a trail or road that leads to it then people are there. Some spots are too tough for most and that makes them less used, but they are not secret. If the crew heads in ahead of me and just ignores my request, then I don't want to hunt near them. Again, have a plan "B" and even "c", and move on. The other choice is to go ahead and try and find a bird you can work alone. Whatever, make the choice that preserves your happiness as best you can. I don't get up in the morning to go hunting and be mad, I can stay home or go to work and do that. A good day in the woods should be joy in it's self, why do we have to kill a turkey to be happy. Heck, ask the bums if you can go along and watch, I bet they'll end up telling you more secrets then you tell them, that's why they are doing what they do, to get attention and validate themselves....those kind like to talk a lot. It also depends on the size of the area. In a small area I will pull out and in a big one go and do the best I can to find a bird. When I leave, if they were friendly during the talk, I will stick a note on their windshield and leave my cell number. I will simply say good luck and text me how you done, I plan to hunt here again and would appreciate any info you could share, be blessed.
If everyone out there had ethics such as yours, there would be no problems on any of our public lands...well said
I've posed similar scenarios before and have had different responses, as expected. I've also been first, second, third to pull up at a place. After all the situations I've dealt with, anymore what it really boils down to is, more or less, if I'm not first, I'm moving on to the next area, until I'm alone. What happens after that, is up to the next guy. I can't control someone walking in on me, but I can hunt smaller areas which deter people from wanting to squeeze in.
Now to answer your question, for the most part, if I'm first, I quickly get everything together, and get ready to walk in so I can be gone before the vehicle gets to me. I've tried doing the nice guy thing a few times before and all too often get shafted. I can be a nice guy and talk after the hunt.
In a place where I am likely to run into others I get there earlier and am gone before anyone rolls in. Let them wonder where you are.
Right Pluffmud +Mikejd-- I am parked 1st 99% of the time and immediately Walk on in.
The scenario above no longer happens to me. I am the Nice guy later on in the parking area. Since,I Hike Mountains often and Flats year round,I am in shape for plenty of Turkey Season walking. I have a 90 minute Hike later today.
Perhaps some newcomers here will see this Thread and then also- get in Quick and unseen before anyone else Parks.
Bowing off the Dojo Floor.
I agree with others, go earlier and walk in. Also I keep an appearance of mess around and find out and it prevents a lot of those encounters from ever happening. And flashlights, not during turkey season no matter how early it is
I would tell them what your plan was when you drove up there. If it turns out they are going in there regardless I'd just go elsewhere. I've fought that fight and I'm over it. I try to avoid parking areas altogether or any areas that might have easy / obvious access to other hunters.
Quote from: Tom007 on February 27, 2022, 07:06:36 AM
You could mention to them you just came back to your truck because 2 guys in your hunting party "forgot their shells"..........if that doesn't deter them, move on cause it will not be a fun hunt...
GENIUS!!!
Just a friendly "fib" to see if it's worth the potential interference, and definite safety issue.....
I hunt public often, this is not a very common problem for me. I typically try and have a conversation with anyone who shows up, If I roll up to a spot and there is a car there I keep going 99 percent of the time.
Couple times I stopped and talked to who was there first to find out they are heading a different direction anyway.
Ran into a guy last year, found out he was a rookie turkey hunter, chatted for a while and shared some info, hunted with him for a day and a half, called him in a bird that never presented a shot though. He had to leave, I stayed and killed that bird in an area he shared with me.
Another time I stopped at a gate, had birds roosted way back from it, car was there but a large closed road went back in and split, walked to the split and the guy was standing there, quick conversation and we were headed to different turkeys.
Personally, I just try to avoid putting myself in situations like the one described. I avoid them by specifically looking for places to hunt that I have plenty of options to move to another area,...or another,...until I have found a spot where nobody else is hunting on that particular day. That is also the reason that any place I go to hunt, I have studied maps, OnX, Google Earth and whatever other sources I can find to be knowledgeable about every public hunting opportunity there might be in any given area.
Granted, I don't live where public hunting opportunities might be so limited that a person could not do the above. Maybe there are places where a guy is resigned to having to deal with that. However, I think there are few places in the country...even with today's hunting pressure...that making the effort to drive a few extra hours to get to an area with more public-land hunting options is not feasible.
Bottom line is that I will go the extra mile to expand my options for places to hunt rather than putting up with the kind of stuff outlined in this example. I would rather drive several hours to find those places than drive a half-hour to hunt a convenient spot that I know there is good chance I will run into folks like those described. For those that are absolutely forced to deal with that kind of stuff without alternatives,...well, I feel for ya'...
Talking to strangers, in the dark, at a parking area in a remote location, is not recommended. I have seen documentaries that started this way.
Man I Iove what eggshell said
TSS retains a punch for a long distance. For that reason and for my desire for solitude, I strive to avoid crowds. My lead loads have produced for nearly a fifty years and I like them close and personal. I also cherish my tomorrows.
I just tell 'em to enjoy the spot, and save some energy to change four flat tires when you come back out. :smiley-char092:
OK, not really. I've had the conversation at the parking area, and when they ask where I'm heading I tell them in general terms. That way I've sort of claimed the spot first and most will respect that. But then, I've been the first one there when having those conversations too.
I've seen some pretty rude behavior on public land but I've not often been the victim of it.
Kindness to each other does a lot more than being hateful to each other. Life is way to short to argue over a turkey. If you are first at that spot just explain your game plan to them and continue on with your plan of hunting that area. Those who showed up later than you could of done the same and they had ever opportunity to be at that spot like you did before you.. Why should you be the one who should get run off, you made a better effort in hunting that spot that morning. I've gone to public ground and parked at 10 clock at night and sleep in my truck, to get ready for that morning hunt and being first to hunting that section of public.
Quote from: Greg Massey on February 27, 2022, 02:53:51 PM
Kindness to each other does a lot more than being hateful to each other. Life is way to short to argue over a turkey. If you are first at that spot just explain your game plan to them and continue on with your plan of hunting that area. Those who showed up later than you could of done the same and they had ever opportunity to be at that spot like you did before you.. Why should you be the one who should get run off, you made a better effort in hunting that spot that morning. I've gone to public ground and parked at 10 clock at night and sleep in my truck, to get ready for that morning hunt and being first to hunting that section of public.
Well said Greg...
Me personally I avoid any area that I think that anyone will remotely show up ... I have far better success avoiding"slam pit" crowded areas
if I'm in a remote areas SHOW UP EARLY ..if you park up on me in a small area... they will I run a gambit of mind games to a level no sane individual could fathom ...never talk to them ...wait till dark when roosting ...hunters always assume you are hunting in your area , and talking to them will never work to your advantage , if you come back to your truck and they come up to you ....jump in or out ..of your truck fast and leave abruptly..if you have to converse with them ..the first person to talk looses the mind games ...
I used to actually carry extra soft gun cases ..unzip them leave them on the hood of my truck , same goes with extra opened energy drinks left on the hood ...signs stuck up "hunters ahead" make them think the area is already loaded with numerous individuals already GO AWAY etc..
I don't resort to threats ....if it comes down to that is what it takes to kill a bird , I find another spot and walk , swim , pedal or row ...far...far away
Tranquility is a hunters best friend I'm friendly if you look like you know what your doing and you are courteous too ..if not the mind games start ..if that doesn't work..well there is always somewhere else
I have no reason to play mine games with anyone .. I feel i have the means and skills to kill a turkey as good as anyone else. When leaving the truck i feel i have the best gun, calls and woodsmanship skills to compete with anyone in the woods. Positive attitude, can help you kill a lot of birds in my opinion.
In your scenario if you would have left the parking lot 20 minutes ahead of those guys arriving they would have still showed up at the same field. They were going in when it's obvious you were already there and going in.
I don't like extra competition, but I am not leaving because of it unless I feel unsafe. I would go in there in this scenario.
I think you should drop us a pin on a map showing where this scenario happened. That way we can see the large field and parking area to get a better idea of how we would handle it.
I don't give info at parking areas if I'm at one and public land is first come first serve. But honestly most of the public ground I target is hard to access anyway so there just aren't many people. I have 2 criteria for public ground...you have to either 1. climb a big hill or 2. cross water to access. Either of those 2 will put distance between me and the majority of other folks.
I always have plan A or B or C or D. Ain't worth it to ruin your day. And usually the way you describe them, they're not getting that Tom anyway. It's not worth the hassle or my safety, the hell with them and move on. I'm 69 and dealing with cancer, life is short, ENJOY it. :z-twocents:
Typically, I'm the kind of guy who believes in "first come, first serve", If I am beat to a gate that is less than a few thousand acres of access I turn around with a back up plan. There have been many times at a local area I hunt this particular gate accesses around 6500 acres and there's no other easy way to get to this land other than that gate. I understand I can't hog that much land to myself. If I beat someone or vice versa I'd rather be very vague and take the chance of a hunt being ruined rather than give up my spot to those fellas who are liable to show back up and hunt in "my" area while I am away another day.
I always try to be first to a spot, if I am not , I simply move on to another. The thing is when people ask where I am going my basic answer is wherever one gobbles. That is really where I am going to go. If I am first and guys come in as described I simply just move on somewhere else as I am not taking a chance on guys that I don't even know coming in on the other side of a gobbling bird, again that's where everyone is going to a gobbling bird. It's just not worth it to me, if I have birds roosted then I better make sure I am first to the spot or they are all yours! Just the way I do it
This is a true story. I have a buddy I have hunted with a good bit. He is a war vet and yes suffers from PTSD. One day we're on a trail and some trail runners (those who hurry past you after your already walking in) came rushing by. He just yells the F word and fires a round in the air and gets a crazy look in his eyes. They stop and turn around and start to get mouthy and he just stares at them. I think fast and tell them hey guys just be cool he's a double purple heart War Vet(true) and has serious PTSD. They start apologizing and slip past us and boogy back to their truck. Still about to crap my pants I turn to him and he burst out laughing and said, I love it when that works. I told him it would have been sweet to have let me in on the act. I was afraid we'd have the law descending on us, but we didn't. He said, "man we got use that some more and I told him I didn't think it was a good idea. Hey we hunted that area all week by ourselves. I even heard guys in a local restaurant talking about don't go to "X" forest road there's a crazy burnt out war vet hunting there, he'll shoot you. My buddy is one of the safest nice guys in the world.
90% of the time that I've ran into other hunters, I've somehow convinced them to let me have the area. Had several occasions where the guy/guys got out, got ready, then packed up to go somewhere else.
I did have one 'touchy' situation a few years back in AL. I, from Arkansas, parked at a gate for the 3rd morning in a row very early one morning. After sitting for a couple hours watching a coupe vehicles drive by, I decided to begin my trek. As I was about to walk thru the gate, a vehicle turned in. Deciding to talk to them, I approached their truck. The driver rolled his window down and exclaimed, "Hope you don't mind company!". I calmly told him that I had roosted a bird and that I would likely be hunting a particular knob...but if that spot failed, I was abandoning the area to look for fresh ground. The passenger then piped up, "Well, just don't be between me and that bird and we won't have any problems." Now at this point, I'll admit that I got a little nervous. I told them both again, almost word for word, my plan, but I ended my sentence with, "Now let's act like grownups instead of the high school bullies". I did not wait around for a reply and took off down the trail. I waited just off the trail where I would turn off for the knob for a good spell. Those guys never came in. Had, what I described as, one of my more memorable roost hunts. Got back to the truck and could see where the guys walked around their truck and never left the parking lot.
One thing I will never do is let someone else spook me off of a spot if I was the first one there. To me, that will only embolden them to continuously abuse others.
Quote from: Turkeyfever on February 27, 2022, 07:40:03 PM
I always try to be first to a spot, if I am not , I simply move on to another. The thing is when people ask where I am going my basic answer is wherever one gobbles. That is really where I am going to go. If I am first and guys come in as described I simply just move on somewhere else as I am not taking a chance on guys that I don't even know coming in on the other side of a gobbling bird, again that's where everyone is going to a gobbling bird. It's just not worth it to me, if I have birds roosted then I better make sure I am first to the spot or they are all yours! Just the way I do it
100 %
Now that we've read some of the more interesting comments on this thread let's throw the e bikers into the equation. My 2022 philosophy is this: If I'm FIRST on a walk in trail and get passed by an e bike or pre-dawn jogger I'll just continue to where I intended and it may then become a very crowded spot. :OGturkeyhead:
Add - wasn't going to comment on "eggshell"s" PTSD story but I will. You may have been one second away from a bloodbath. Nothing cute or clever about armed confrontations in the dark. In Florida he would have been "Baker Acted" for mental problems. We just had a 73 year old acquitted for a movie theatre shooting involving thrown popcorn (google it). Think about the self defense justification for being surprised by a shotgun blast from a guy with a crazy look in his eyes. Jeez!
Good varied replies mostly-except for a few.This Thread was aimed at Newer Turkey Hunters to this site who may not have seen this topic before.
I usually park at 3.35am. That is my goal. Never later then 3.40am. That is why- 99% of the time,I am 1st to park. And a slow walk or Mountain Bike ride in.
For the Newer Turkey Hunters here- you will see your first vehicle to pull in at roughly- 3.45am. Before that,I am in with a Slow Walk or Mountain Bike Ride.
Flashlights?- Better take one. Most Dirt access roads are going to have potholes. A Broken Ankle is not worth it to walk in the Pitch Black- no matter how good your Night Vision is. With a Mountain Bike- that Flashlight is even more important-- I know.
Besides- Bigfoot is Nocturnal and without a Flashlight- he may come to check you out- lol!
As a former Martial Arts instructor--41st year starts in March- avoid if possible all pre Dawn Talk. The Guy pulling in may not be a Turkey Hunter. Your Safety First.
Bowing off the Dojo Floor.
joey46, you are right and we had a conversation about it. It was the last time he done it, with me anyway. I haven't hunted with him in years and that is part of why, but mostly because he went through some treatment and decided he should hunt by himself. I feared a bigger incident. I apologize if it sounded like I approved. He has gotten professional help and is quite stable, now. We are still great friends and I would never abandon him because of issues that are a result of him defending my freedom. Yes some vets have issues, but they deserve our love and help. Never should anyone pull that stunt. I guess I shouldn't have told it.
I wouldn't apologize for telling the story eggshell. I appreciate your buddies service and agree that sounded like a terrible and dangerous plan. Sounds like your quick thinking help de-escalate the situation. There has been some interesting advice shared here. Some people like to talk, some go right in to avoid talking, and some avoid talking for potential safety issues. I see comments about finding a place to hunt away from all the pressure. That would be a dream come true. I wouldn't hesitate at all to walk 2-3 miles to get away from people, but where I hunt when you walk that far you end up just getting close to another road on the backside of the property. And frustratingly it seems like the turkeys like to be close to the gates and roads. There are gates that always get pounded but there are always turkeys close by. I have walked as far in as I can into places and find no turkeys there. So I am stuck in the first to the gate game, and I guess I fall into the get there first, get out and start walking before anyone pulls in crowd.
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If I have to have a pre dawn conversation with someone, shame on me for getting up late as them. Shame on me too for picking a spot other guys will be. In all my years only once have I had this happen. It was youth day on the refuge. The birds were very consistsnt and visible. It was youth day so I figured low chances of someone else coming in.
I did leave slightly later as my kids were 14 and 11. So we got there and were walking across the street from where parked. Almost into brush when a truck pulls up asks where I'm headed. I say there. He says where in there? It's a small piece and I inform he I'm not getting into a calling contest with him. If he insists he's going in there with me I'll leave but I wouldn't do it to him.
He says he's not sure where else to go. Shame on him right? Anyhow I tell him if he goes here I'm going to a spot up the road with equally patternable and consistent birds. I'll tell him where.
After I give him directions we go in and kill a bird. I'd be pretty sure he had a solid chance if he could turkey hunt but being he knew one place idk. Never saw him again Only time I ever had interference like that. Pick better spots imo. That was a youth day easy pickings first shot. I'd never do that reg season.
I don't roll into public land until 10am-11am. Avoid the crowds and henned up gobblers. Kill a lot of birds between 11am-3pm. That early morning rat race on public land is for the birds :TooFunny: :TooFunny:
Quote from: Flagobbler on February 28, 2022, 09:25:58 AM
I don't roll into public land until 10am-11am. Avoid the crowds and henned up gobblers. Kill a lot of birds between 11am-3pm. That early morning rat race on public land is for the birds :TooFunny: :TooFunny:
don't let the cat out of the bag lol!
I hunt a lot of highly pressured public land in the northeast. For the most part being parked first at a gate means little to most guys there. A much bigger problem is the extensive road systems in most of the forest. Usually a gobbling bird will see pressure from 360 degrees.
I pretty much live in my truck and sleep where I roost and hunt. I go early and stay late so I really never interact with guys at the truck. The few times I have have usually ended up poorly for myself. When the first bird gobbles or one won't shut up, Deals made in the parking lot last shorter than toilet paper in a rainstorm.
The original post said about guys in their late 20s or early 30s. Most guys that age do not have the time or patience to hunt a lot. The 60+ guys usuallyhave the time and patience. So many times we feel like it's a race to kill one and we miss the whole experience for that.
For me turkey hunting is a personal quest to match wits with an old gobbler on his terms in his house. While it's OK to be a little competitive at times with other hunters, 5he big prize is the experience.
I hunt a very large area and pretty much there are no secrets. All the land is mostly in blocks, so walking in a mile just gets you to another road. There are pockets that hold birds and lots of us park where it is not so obvious where we are hunting. Have been 3/4 mile away from truck and had someone come in by water and mess me up. Not their fault, not my fault, just happened.
I came to turkey hunting later in life (early 30s) and from the duck hunting tradition. I have had countless pre-dawn talks with folks about setups and being too close, etc. It is just second nature to chat with folks. I would say more than 50% of the time when I talk with someone, we either know each other or I know their family. The vast majority of the time we can work something out.
The COVID year was rough with tons of new hunters and young inexperienced hunters that were just not taught hunter ethics properly. I talked to a few of them, but usually avoided them.
Not sure, but I would bet almost every area of the country has those spots that are known hotspots, as well as other places that are not so much. I would also bet that the vast majority of the hunting pressure in most areas occurs in the first week or two of the season, and especially on the first weekend or two.
Taking that into account, I always avoid those hotspot areas during those time periods when I know there is likely to be competition, and conversely, I will look for alternate areas where I know there are fewer birds, but I also know I am unlikely to have to deal with debates about who gets to hunt where. I leave those hotspot areas until later on in the season when most folks have given up,...that is if I am still hunting.
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 28, 2022, 06:03:42 PM
Not sure, but I would bet almost every area of the country has those spots that are known hotspots, as well as other places that are not so much. I would also bet that the vast majority of the hunting pressure in most areas occurs in the first week or two of the season, and especially on the first weekend or two.
Taking that into account, I always avoid those hotspot areas during those time periods when I know there is likely to be competition, and conversely, I will look for alternate areas where I know there are fewer birds, but I also know I am unlikely to have to deal with debates about who gets to hunt where. I leave those hotspot areas until later on in the season when most folks have given up,...that is if I am still hunting.
And that pretty much sums up my hunting strategy when choosing where to go. I do tend to hunt more in those "hotspots" on weekdays and have done so quite successfully, especially later in the season. I also hunt a few public spots that are quota. Both are relatively uncrowded and while they are hotspots, the draw is pretty limited.
One of my favorite spots in another state is what locals call the Out-of-stater zoo. You rarely see a local there and it's one of those "let's fight it out at the gate" spots. I usually don't even go in until just before gobble time. I drive through until I see an open parking area and then go. There is one area that is 5 miles long and if there is a single vehicle or maybe two I will still go into it. I will wait until daylight and listen as I go. Before I set up I listen to see if I hear any calls, if I do I move on. If no calls in 10-20 minutes I call to the bird, if he cuts me off I set up. This area has several branch offs and everyone goes up the big ones. I go up the little steep ones that are a pain in the butt. I have killed a pretty fair bunch of birds in this zoo and never ever had a conflict. We also cross a river in one area. Also, I have killed many late day birds there. In one spot I don't even show up until after 11:00AM. In all the years I have killed 40+ birds right in the zoo. Don't tell me with a little thought, courtesy and strategy it can't be done.
Alright old timer, what does 'youtube group' have to do with any of this? I mean, I wish they wouldn't post. Pinhotti shot 4 birds in 2 days in Colorado and just posted it. That state is screwed in the future, so I'm with you there. But in this scenario, what does that have to do it?
Here in East TN there are thousands of acres of public land but limited road /parking available. So this is a common scenario.
If I left every time I encountered another vehicle there wouldn't be any need in getting up.
It has gotten worse the last few years, but stock to your plan. I've found around 11 o'clock people start leaving.
Quote from: eggshell on March 01, 2022, 07:05:54 AM
One of my favorite spots in another state is what locals call the Out-of-stater zoo. You rarely see a local there and it's one of those "let's fight it out at the gate" spots. I usually don't even go in until just before gobble time. I drive through until I see an open parking area and then go. There is one area that is 5 miles long and if there is a single vehicle or maybe two I will still go into it. I will wait until daylight and listen as I go. Before I set up I listen to see if I hear any calls, if I do I move on. If no calls in 10-20 minutes I call to the bird, if he cuts me off I set up. This area has several branch offs and everyone goes up the big ones. I go up the little steep ones that are a pain in the butt. I have killed a pretty fair bunch of birds in this zoo and never ever had a conflict. We also cross a river in one area. Also, I have killed many late day birds there. In one spot I don't even show up until after 11:00AM. In all the years I have killed 40+ birds right in the zoo. Don't tell me with a little thought, courtesy and strategy it can't be done.
Smart turkey hunting and such wise advice here. Talk less, call less, do less and confront less. Listen more, observe more, think more.... Your not just outsmarting turkeys sometimes.
Quote from: mikejd on February 27, 2022, 07:57:03 AM
In a place where I am likely to run into others I get there earlier and am gone before anyone rolls in. Let them wonder where you are.
My strategy exactly on public land. If drawn for a hunt there is no specific time I can start in either states I hunt, so I get started into the woods LONG before sun up or at least 98% of other hunters.
Also I will not hunt areas that have high hunter numbers. Just not worth the frustration.
I am fortunate as well as smart as I only hunt public land that allows a very limited number of draw only hunters (both areas I hunt both over 9k acres in size, have a limit of 12 hunters per day each area) with a stand by for the draw slots for no shows.
As a result I have only been drawn 50% of the time but got drawn on stand by the other 50% and at best I will get to hunt 3 maybe 4 days a season but they have been high quality hunts fully 95% of the time or better.
Id much much prefer this system to a loosely controlled higher hunter numbers system that offers quantity over quality.
Been doing this for these two different properties 21 years now and have gotten either drawn or hunted a no show spot for 21 seasons in a row. Killed a turkey 19 of the 21. didn't kill a Tom last two years as I can use my hunt to give to a youth as I have been using my hunts to let my boys hunt who aren't successful during youth season.
Despite knowing both areas quite well, I still pre-season and in-season scout my butt off every year no exceptions and have at least 4 or 5 good areas to hunt prior to season open. Believe me when I say pre-season scouting has saved at least half of my both my hunts as well as youth hunts for my sons as the areas turkeys use most definitely change (due to a host of reasons out of mine and the turkeys control) year to year as well as week to week in the season.
My friend and I know these areas extremely well killed 90% of all our Toms from one area, but last three year the crops in that area weren't planted and a lot of large fields that once held large numbers of strutting toms became badly overgrown and the turkeys moved to other adjacent areas close by and thanks to pre-season scouting I discovered this and we adjusted our hunting plan accordingly and managed to get Toms for both my sons and my friend.
Unfortunately for the last two seasons one of my one of my son who didn't connect during the two day youth season used my draw hunt to take his bird, but that's just stuff dads gladly do for their kids, besides was WAAAAAAAY more fun for my friend and I working a smart old Tom and calling him into my son than if I'd of killed him.
I avoid conversations when I can and usually don't hunt around parking areas. The best are when you are no where near a parking area and guys park within 30-40 yards of you and go to the one gobbling turkey within earshot.
Last season, opening day was an interesting one. I had scouted a place I know really well, and had a couple of good options, which are less than a 1/4 mile apart, but access different areas with lay of the land. Last minute, I changed my original plan and parked at my second option. I was early, as I knew I would have to be and was joking with my friend on the phone that I'd probably get messed up by other hunters as I had in the past. It was still some time before daylight, when a truck pulls by and parks about 30 yards in front of me. This is not a big area, so I get out and give a cordial greeting of how are you doing? He immediately stated, "I'm hunting right down there" as he pointed down the log road. Shocked of course, I made it clear that he knew that's why I was parked there. He responded, "well, I don't know what to tell you, I'm hunting right down there". I never lost my cool, but stated that was the reason I was parked there and that in all my years of turkey hunting I had never parked by anyone like that. He told me he had been scouting that spot for 2 months, and when I said I had as well, he said, "I haven't seen your truck". I knew at this point it was a lost cause and would be a ruined hunt. He was an older gentleman or I would have not bowed out and let him have it. He came back over as I was about to leave and was a little more cordial. I went back down to my other option, which originally was my initial plan anyway. Worked out perfect. It put me on the perfect side of a gobbling turkey on the roost. I killed him within 30 minutes of fly down. I heard the guy drive out and when I got back to my truck he had left a note apologizing for his behavior. I think he genuinely is a nice guy that just let the moment and pressure get to him. From our conversation, I believe he was a newer turkey hunter that in a round about way learned a lesson.
Quote from: El Pavo Grande on March 02, 2022, 07:34:31 PM
I avoid conversations when I can and usually don't hunt around parking areas. The best are when you are no where near a parking area and guys park within 30-40 yards of you and go to the one gobbling turkey within earshot.
Last season, opening day was an interesting one. I had scouted a place I know really well, and had a couple of good options, which are less than a 1/4 mile apart, but access different areas with lay of the land. Last minute, I changed my original plan and parked at my second option. I was early, as I knew I would have to be and was joking with my friend on the phone that I'd probably get messed up by other hunters as I had in the past. It was still some time before daylight, when a truck pulls by and parks about 30 yards in front of me. This is not a big area, so I get out and give a cordial greeting of how are you doing? He immediately stated, "I'm hunting right down there" as he pointed down the log road. Shocked of course, I made it clear that he knew that's why I was parked there. He responded, "well, I don't know what to tell you, I'm hunting right down there". I never lost my cool, but stated that was the reason I was parked there and that in all my years of turkey hunting I had never parked by anyone like that. He told me he had been scouting that spot for 2 months, and when I said I had as well, he said, "I haven't seen your truck". I knew at this point it was a lost cause and would be a ruined hunt. He was an older gentleman or I would have not bowed out and let him have it. He came back over as I was about to leave and was a little more cordial. I went back down to my other option, which originally was my initial plan anyway. Worked out perfect. It put me on the perfect side of a gobbling turkey on the roost. I killed him within 30 minutes of fly down. I heard the guy drive out and when I got back to my truck he had left a note apologizing for his behavior. I think he genuinely is a nice guy that just let the moment and pressure get to him. From our conversation, I believe he was a newer turkey hunter that in a round about way learned a lesson.
Nice story. I think that your ethical reaction to his initial belligerence got him thinking when you relocated. It's nice to see that he apologized. Maybe moving forward, his thoughts will change and he will become part of the ethical fraternity we all enjoy....well done.